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Beyond The Beyonder
10-04-2006, 06:44 AM
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between these two?

Joe Kelly took over X-Men after the book had been utterly terrible for several years and turned it into one of Marvel's best series. Joe Kelly's X-Men focused on character development and the interaction between a new group of X-Men who hadn't really teamed together before. This team included a female leader (Storm), several brand new members (Marrow, Maggott and Cecilia Reyes), an older feral character with a healing factor (Wolverine), one person with blue skin (The Beast) and Cannonball and Iceman. Kelly signed on the same month that another writer (Steven T. Seagle) took over Uncanny, which became much better than it had been but still not as good as Kelly's book.

Mike Carey took over X-Men after the book had been utterly terrible for several years and turned it into one of Marvel's best series. Mike Carey's X-Men focused on character development and the interaction between a new group of X-Men who hadn't really teamed together before. This team included a female leader (Rogue), several brand new members (Lady Mastermind and Karima Shandipar), an older feral character with a healing factor (Sabretooth), one person with blue skin (Mystique) and Cannonball and Iceman! Carey signed on the same month that another writer (Ed Brubaker) began writing Uncanny, which became much better than it had been but still not as good as Carey's book.

I couldn't find any other amazing similarities, but just to confuse things a little, check this out: When Joe Kelly was writing the X-Men, Kelly was also writing Daredevil, and Bachalo was drawing Uncanny. While Mike Carey is writing the X-Men, Brubaker is writing Daredevil, and Bachalo is drawing X-Men.

Which brings me to the question... has anyone ever seen Joe Kelly and Mike Carey at the same time?

rwsmith
10-04-2006, 07:34 AM
Both of their runs were also met with a lot of acclaim from X-fans, but did not translate into increased sales. Hopefully Carey won't be pushed off the book before he's done telling all of the stories he wants to tell like Kelly was.

f4faith
10-04-2006, 08:36 AM
Both of their runs were also met with a lot of acclaim from X-fans, but did not translate into increased sales. Hopefully Carey won't be pushed off the book before he's done telling all of the stories he wants to tell like Kelly was.

One can hope Carey has a chance to write what he's wanting too. I at least see him getting two years out of it which was more than Kelly. But I have to admit not having a clue about Kelly's run because his team totally uninterested me so I dropped the book and having some similar feelings about Carey's team. Most of them I just don't like or want to read about no matter how good - though I think he's getting more credit for taking over after a really poor run than he would have following a good run. It's a good book, but like Astonishing, I could care less about all but one (well maybe two) of the characters. Why I still like Brubaker's book better despite Vulcan. At least most of the characters I like and love a few while on the other two teams I love one character and pretty much dislike the rest. My comic shop is too out of the way to go and comics too expensive in comparison to the "use" without a good reason to care.

beachbum8994
10-04-2006, 09:14 AM
Yeah, I have noticed the similarities as well. Joe Kelly has always been one of my favorite comic authors (mainly for Deadpool) but also for his run on X-Men. I am definitely loving the Mike Carey run so far, let's keep sales up and keep him on board!!

Alistair
10-04-2006, 09:42 AM
Kelly really caught a raw deal on X-Men - a lot of his stories were excellent, but from what he's said since, he and Seagle were really smothered by the X-office and were tearing their hair out in frustration at having all their plans shot down all the time.

I have to say, I stopped buying the main two X-books in the late 1990s, and only came back for Morrison's run, which I adored. After that, I dropped the book again, and didn't bother with either main X-book until Milligan came on. I know a lot of people hated Milligan's run, but I really thoroughly enjoyed it. Carey I wasn't so sure of, because the quality of Lucifer really dropped towards the second half of that series, but he's been great so far. Can't believe I've been buying X-Men again regularly for a few years now - and I'm loving it!

Faded
10-04-2006, 11:48 AM
They also happen to be two of my more favorite writers to work on the X-Men!

Both don't seem to be doing anything earth shattering, but for some reason its because of that fact that I find myself more drawn in.

rwsmith
10-04-2006, 12:28 PM
Yeah, every story arc doesn't have to be "earth-shattering" to be good, that's for sure. Despite not being crazy about Carey's cast, they are starting to grow on me, so hopefully they will do the same for others and sales will start to increase.

Beyond The Beyonder
10-04-2006, 02:18 PM
I was a huge fan of Kelly's Deadpool series too, it was easily the best thing he wrote -- I was reviewing comics then and reading EVERY comic Marvel put out, and Deadpool was their crown jewel -- but X-Men was damn good too, until the editorial situation got worse.

And it's true, there weren't any Earth-shattering stories. We had Maggott and Marrow coming to terms with themselves and learning to be heroes, Storm and Wolverine in their best form as teachers, lots of clever bits of dialogue and character moments. And if every X-Men story were as good as those first ten issues or so, we'd never complain again.

Not every story needs to be Earth-shattering. Plot-centered books like Morrison's JLA, or The Authority or any of Frank Miller's books need to be Earth-shattering. But Kelly and Carey tend to be character-centered, and that's always worked well with the X-Men.

thik_3rd
10-04-2006, 02:23 PM
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between these two?

Joe Kelly took over X-Men after the book had been utterly terrible for several years and turned it into one of Marvel's best series. Joe Kelly's X-Men focused on character development and the interaction between a new group of X-Men who hadn't really teamed together before. This team included a female leader (Storm), several brand new members (Marrow, Maggott and Cecilia Reyes), an older feral character with a healing factor (Wolverine), one person with blue skin (The Beast) and Cannonball and Iceman. Kelly signed on the same month that another writer (Steven T. Seagle) took over Uncanny, which became much better than it had been but still not as good as Kelly's book.

Mike Carey took over X-Men after the book had been utterly terrible for several years and turned it into one of Marvel's best series. Mike Carey's X-Men focused on character development and the interaction between a new group of X-Men who hadn't really teamed together before. This team included a female leader (Rogue), several brand new members (Lady Mastermind and Karima Shandipar), an older feral character with a healing factor (Sabretooth), one person with blue skin (Mystique) and Cannonball and Iceman! Carey signed on the same month that another writer (Ed Brubaker) began writing Uncanny, which became much better than it had been but still not as good as Carey's book.

I couldn't find any other amazing similarities, but just to confuse things a little, check this out: When Joe Kelly was writing the X-Men, Kelly was also writing Daredevil, and Bachalo was drawing Uncanny. While Mike Carey is writing the X-Men, Brubaker is writing Daredevil, and Bachalo is drawing X-Men.

Which brings me to the question... has anyone ever seen Joe Kelly and Mike Carey at the same time?
your basic premise is wrong in that kelly came on after years of the book being awesome and turned it into one of the worst books out up until...now.

FanboyStranger
10-04-2006, 03:30 PM
Kelly is bald, Carey has hair.

Beyond The Beyonder
10-04-2006, 04:28 PM
Kelly is bald?? I haven't seen any recent pictures. He had a full head of hair when writing X-Men.
Oh dear, this doesn't bode well for Carey. ;-)

FanboyStranger
10-04-2006, 05:51 PM
Kelly is bald?? I haven't seen any recent pictures. He had a full head of hair when writing X-Men.
Oh dear, this doesn't bode well for Carey. ;-)

There was a picture of him at a Superman summit a few years ago. He was definitely balding, and the future looked grim.

If anything, I'd say that Carey resembles Seagle coming in rather than Kelly. Carey, like Seagle, wrote critically acclaimed books for Vertigo before venturing to Marvel for the X-men. Kelly was an in-house guy who was writing what was improbably Marvel's best book in Deadpool before being given an assignment in the x-office.

I'd really like to see Kelly get a comeback book somewhere.

thik_3rd
10-04-2006, 06:02 PM
kelly is still writing.

FanboyStranger
10-04-2006, 06:13 PM
kelly is still writing.

Yeah, I know, but I'd like to see him on something that plays to his strengths, rather than Space Ghost. I read (and greatly enjoyed) The Irredeemable Ant-Man today, and I almost immediately thought that it was like a good Kelly Deadpool story.

Doom Hammer
10-04-2006, 06:29 PM
I was a huge fan of Kelly's Deadpool series too, it was easily the best thing he wrote -- I was reviewing comics then and reading EVERY comic Marvel put out, and Deadpool was their crown jewel -- but X-Men was damn good too, until the editorial situation got worse.

That series is hardcore-underrated. It's some high-quality reading that's way more than it's given credit for. It's epic, it's genuinely tragic, it's hilarious in an often-clever way you don't expect, and the entire Kelly run has a very conjoined, Claremontian, multiple plot-thread mega-arc design. Completely brilliant. I've been rereading it recently, and it definitely holds up.

Doom Hammer
10-04-2006, 06:34 PM
Yeah, I know, but I'd like to see him on something that plays to his strengths, rather than Space Ghost. I read (and greatly enjoyed) The Irredeemable Ant-Man today, and I almost immediately thought that it was like a good Kelly Deadpool story.

Ha, there it is. I knew there was something about that series that excited me more than it should. It reminded me of Deadpool, for some reason...

Well now I can't wait to read it. And I think Deadpool and Ant-Man should duke it out over who really is "the world's worst super-hero", which pretty thoroughly describes 'Pool throughout the Kelly run. :D

Beyond The Beyonder
10-05-2006, 02:09 AM
It's a crying shame that Kelly's Deadpool entire run hasn't been collected into TPB. Who's up for a letter-writing campaign?

Kelly and Seagle were both huge names back then and they've both fallen out of the spotlight. I totally agree, I'd love to see a comeback.

(Seagle's writing American Virgin for Vertigo and it's actually one of my absolute favorite books on the shelves right now, but it's not getting much attention as I understand it.)

UniqueFrequency
10-05-2006, 03:10 AM
Kelly and Seagle were both huge names back then and they've both fallen out of the spotlight. I totally agree, I'd love to see a comeback.



yeah it was really sad because they wrote great X-stories!

FanboyStranger
10-05-2006, 10:32 AM
It's a crying shame that Kelly's Deadpool entire run hasn't been collected into TPB. Who's up for a letter-writing campaign?

Kelly and Seagle were both huge names back then and they've both fallen out of the spotlight. I totally agree, I'd love to see a comeback.

(Seagle's writing American Virgin for Vertigo and it's actually one of my absolute favorite books on the shelves right now, but it's not getting much attention as I understand it.)

I'm definitely up for a letter campaign for Joe's Deadpool run to be collected. Every couple of weeks I end up sounding out for a hardcover of the first 13 issues + the DD/Deadpool on some board or another. That's probably wishful thinking, but they could at least reprint Mission Improbable.

A good sign, I think, is that Marvel has been reprinting older stuff with questionable interest in it. I picked up Thor: The Eternals Saga, vol. 1 and Dr. Strange/Dracula: The Montesi Formula (should have added Bizarre Adventures 33) in the past two weeks. Yeah, I know these books are linked to current high profile series in MU with Gaiman's Eternals and Vaughn's Dr. Strange: The Oath, but it's nice that Marvel has abandoned older storylines to the Essentials. So, I guess Deadpool needs a big event soon.

American Virgin is great, by the way. Seagle is a lot better when working on his own characters and given the latitude of a mature readers book.

Beyond The Beyonder
10-05-2006, 03:29 PM
I'm definitely up for a letter campaign for Joe's Deadpool run to be collected. Every couple of weeks I end up sounding out for a hardcover of the first 13 issues + the DD/Deadpool on some board or another. That's probably wishful thinking, but they could at least reprint Mission Improbable.

One great thing about that series is that it works in arcs but each arc flows so beautifully into the next one. It's pretty much one story all the way from #1-25. So when they reprint the earlier stuff, anyone who reads it is going to be hungry for the next volume. Man, I haven't read those issues in a while but I remember what a thrill ride that book was, and how hilarious the dialogue was and how deep and dark the emotional content went. Really a masterpiece of the medium.


American Virgin is great, by the way. Seagle is a lot better when working on his own characters and given the latitude of a mature readers book.

True. He goes where other writers won't go and it can be hard to do that in a Marvel superhero book. My favorite Seagle read up until AV was House of Secrets, but I'm pretty sure AV is surpassing even that. I still really loved his Alpha Flight, but it didn't really surprise me that the general readership didn't take to it. Vertigo's fitting for him.

jarrod
10-05-2006, 03:35 PM
*sigh*

The Kelly/Seagle era held so much amazing promise, especially following then stagnant Slobdell years. What could've been...

Dark Phoenix
10-06-2006, 12:48 PM
The Kelly - Seagle era had such promise. The books were really getting good and the story's were starting to click. The whole build up of what seemed to be Jean becoming Phoenix again was awesome and had me a lot more interested than when Morrison did it actually (and I enjoyed the Morrison run).