Girl Power

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I was talking with a friend of mine a while ago about mysoginy in the DCU and this issue popped up:

"- If you are female in comics, you are screwed.Girls don´t get to exert vengeance on Boys, it´s unheard of."

Well, I´m almost certain that that is not the case.
Unfortunatelly, I was unable to appease her since, well, sad to say I have little memory of events where the heroine gets not only to beat her male oponent but to actually squish him into pulp.

I am not talking about Batgirl neutralising five anonymous goons or Huntress beating six 3rd-rate deadbeats, I´m talking about MEMORABLE, LEGENDARY "The-Fatte-of-the-universe-is-in-her-hands" fistfights where the heroine doesn´t come on top, she comes CLEARLY on top, punching and kicking the boy into humiliating submission..
With a Vengeance.

Do you recall any?

Then share. :)

[Count Vertigo]

I remember reading something with Power Girl in Justice League Europe when the team moved to England. Actually two sets now that I think about it. I think it was when she was possessed by Eclipso and another when she was defending her baby. Details are vague. I'm sorry i can't provide much more info.

[Arvandor]

Well, there's the now infamous Wonder Woman snapping Max Lord's neck scne.

Or in Hiketiea, where WW does indeed beat Batman into the ground, and stamps her boot on his face.

[Damo]

Which are you looking for? Getting vengeance, or just pounding away at a big strong foe?

Anyway.

Vengeance:
WW vs. Hercules in JLA/Avengers
Elektra vs. Bullseye (Ultimate universe)
Catwoman vs. Zeiss
Black Canary vs. Savant

Just plain "laying down the smack" :

Lady Shiva vs. Connor Hawke.
She Hulk vs. Champion
WW Hiketeia vs. Batman
Powerless Storm vs. Cyclops
Gamora vs. Thanos
Supergirl vs. The Justice League (it was crap, but it was written)
Shado vs. Green Arrow
Cheetah vs. Flash
Mary Marvel vs. A Pile of Barely Alive Silver Pulp... I mean Cap. Atom.

and so on and so on.

[Shellhead]

Catwoman vs. Zeiss


Actually, Zeiss had just beaten Catwoman down when he got fatally stabbed in the back by a blade-wielding catman. Not the villain Catman, but some guy from a feline humanoid lost civilization or somesuch.

[Damo]

Actually, Zeiss had just beaten Catwoman down when he got fatally stabbed in the back by a blade-wielding catman. Not the villain Catman, but some guy from a feline humanoid lost civilization or somesuch.

You missed the rematch, when she hadn't been worrying about fighting him for days. They met again in War Games, she tore him to pieces all the while saying to herself "Wow, it's easy when he doesn't have you psyched out!"

[Drakonnen]

Well, there's the now infamous Wonder Woman snapping Max Lord's neck scne.


Thats the one I was going to point too as well.

Also, in Supergirl 4 or 5, the dark half of Supergirl pretty much beats the crap out of Lex Luthor, though he ends up getting away.

[Aaron Kashtan]

How about Queen Projectra executing Nemesis Kid?

[Shellhead]

You missed the rematch, when she hadn't been worrying about fighting him for days. They met again in War Games, she tore him to pieces all the while saying to herself "Wow, it's easy when he doesn't have you psyched out!"

Oh. Yeah, I stayed away from War Games. Still, the fight that I saw must have been the final one with Zeiss, because he was dead at the end, and the corpse was hauled off at the start of the next issue of Catwoman. Of course, this is comics, so maybe Zeiss did come back anyway.

[Bat-Mite]

I have little memory of events where the heroine gets not only to beat her male opponent but to actually squish him into pulp.

In Suicide Squad, Lashina of the Female furies beats the tar out of DC's biggest woman hater, Major Force.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Thanks a lot, guys, keep them coming.

Preferably, with the names of the issue where the events took place :)

[Jack Zodiac]

The end of PAD's Supergirl series. All of the series was great, and it was all about Supergirl becoming an important cosmic figure, the Earth-Angel, but the ending made the Linda Danvers Supergirl one of the greatest heroines in DC history. The Pre-Crisis Kara Zor-El found her way into the present by mistake, and a Supergirl-hunting multi-dimensional monster named Xenon was hunting her down. The Spectre came to Linda, telling her that Kara had to return to the point in time where she was misdirected, or The Crisis would result in the complete annihilation of the multiverse. Instead, Linda put herself in Kara's place, willing to sacrifice herself so Kara could continue to live on Earth as Clark's real cousin.

In the end, though, they decided that Kara had to go back and die anyway, and instead of using the more experienced Linda as the new Supergirl, they cancelled her series (which was getting much, much better). So the original Kara Zor-El still had to go back to The Crisis and die, and the selfless Linda who returned from the past as a more experienced hero is in character Limbo, and now they have this horrible, sophomoric Supergirl holding her own crappy series. :mad: Booooooooooooooooooooooo- er, anyway...

So yeah, the mid-Nineties version of Supergirl. Great heroine, acted selflessly knowing full-well what was in store for her, and even defeated Xenon, a being who had killed dozens of different versions of Supergirl across the multiverse.

[HRaudsepp]

I was talking with a friend of mine a while ago about mysoginy in the DCU and this issue popped up:

"- If you are female in comics, you are screwed.Girls don´t get to exert vengeance on Boys, it´s unheard of."

Well, I´m almost certain that that is not the case.
Unfortunatelly, I was unable to appease her since, well, sad to say I have little memory of events where the heroine gets not only to beat her male oponent but to actually squish him into pulp.

I am not talking about Batgirl neutralising five anonymous goons or Huntress beating six 3rd-rate deadbeats, I´m talking about MEMORABLE, LEGENDARY "The-Fatte-of-the-universe-is-in-her-hands" fistfights where the heroine doesn´t come on top, she comes CLEARLY on top, punching and kicking the boy into humiliating submission..
With a Vengeance.

Do you recall any?

Then share. :)


Wow. This topic is apalling on so many levels. As a man, I’ve never had the slightest desire to see a male comic comic book character “exert vengeance” against a female character by “squishing” her “to a pulp” or beating her into “humiliating submission”. I don’t think something like that would be tolerated in comics, or mainstream comics at least. The notion that the absence of female-on-male violence of that nature is an example of misogyny is truly offensive. As it is, female heroes are permitted to beat on male villains in ways it would not be permissable for male heroes to beat on female villains. Wanting to see ANYONE beaten into humilating submission has nothing to do with girl power. It’s a sick desire, and it’s not one I want comics to pander to.

[Arvandor]

Wow. This topic is apalling on so many levels. As a man, I’ve never had the slightest desire to see a male comic comic book character “exert vengeance” against a female character by “squishing” her “to a pulp” or beating her into “humiliating submission”. I don’t think something like that would be tolerated in comics, or mainstream comics at least. The notion that the absence of female-on-male violence of that nature is an example of misogyny is truly offensive. As it is, female heroes are permitted to beat on male villains in ways it would not be permissable for male heroes to beat on female villains. Wanting to see ANYONE beaten into humilating submission has nothing to do with girl power. It’s a sick desire, and it’s not one I want comics to pander to.

You pansy.

As a man, I LOVE IT when the girls lay the smacketh down on some big blokes. It is lots of fun.

[Bat-Mite]

As a man, I’ve never had the slightest desire to see a male comic comic book character “exert vengeance” against a female character by “squishing” her “to a pulp” or beating her into “humiliating submission”.

The thing is, in superhero fiction, beating people to a bloody pulp is normal and expected. The problem comes when you rarely see a female character doing that to a male character, but there are tons of examples of males characters doing that to female characters.

[IamtheRock3]

The thing is, in superhero fiction, beating people to a bloody pulp is normal and expected. The problem comes when you rarely see a female character doing that to a male character, but there are tons of examples of males characters doing that to female characters.


Well maybe cause in DC it not a whole lot of strong female charcter that about power and brute force. As strong as Power girl is can think of couple of people strong then her in DC with similar power sets

Supergirl the rare acception


Shiva been a know butt kicker, Remeber a girl on wildcats OWNED majestic pretty hard

but most example of Women ownign guys is their strong then them by a LARGE margin

[IamtheRock3]

OH WAIT

there mary marvel owning Captain Atom

[Bat-Mite]

Yeah, the Mary Marvel vs Captain Atom fight definitely counts. I think, though, that we should differentiate from fights where the woman just won from fights where the woman beat the crap / humiliated / turned into a bloody pulp a guy, which is what I think the original poster is seeking.

[IamtheRock3]

Yeah, the Mary Marvel vs Captain Atom fight definitely counts. I think, though, that we should differentiate from fights where the woman just won from fights where the woman beat the crap / humiliated / turned into a bloody pulp a guy, which is what I think the original poster is seeking.


Yup but mary fight fits both list

Dont think you find many, that could of like a BRUTE strengh or Thug type behavoir. Not many women fit that bill

[tjarvis]

Listen, I appreciate a good fight scene as much as anyone. And if you look at series like Wonder Woman, She-Hulk, Supergirl, etc. than you'll come across plenty of instances of women fighting male villains and overcoming them.

But I agree with the poster that I don't want to see a female character humiliate and mercilessly pummel a male character, just as I wouldn't want to see a male character do that to a female, or even a male character. It's just not a very heroic thing to do. Plus, when gender is involved, it takes on a weird S & M vibe that's slightly repulsive.

[kane]

The thing is, in superhero fiction, beating people to a bloody pulp is normal and expected. The problem comes when you rarely see a female character doing that to a male character, but there are tons of examples of males characters doing that to female characters.

Can you provide me with some examples, where a male hero really did beat up a femal villain to a bloody pulp? Not just knocking out or win after a fight, but really taking revenge and beat the heck out of the female villain.

I don´t believe it. In the moment a male hero would do this, all people would talk about, how badly female characters are treated in comics. Of course nobody cares when a female character beats up a male, but this kind of thinking is common.

[Damo]

Oh. Yeah, I stayed away from War Games. Still, the fight that I saw must have been the final one with Zeiss, because he was dead at the end, and the corpse was hauled off at the start of the next issue of Catwoman. Of course, this is comics, so maybe Zeiss did come back anyway.

Yup. He came back, and it wasn't much later either. I remember flipping back to the original fight because I remembered him being dead too, but on closer inspection there was nothing clearly committing him to being dead. My memory's not perfect, but I think Batman even asked for someone to get a doctor. He definitely wasn't carted away in a bodybag or anything.

[Damo]

Generally you only see "humiliating submission" when a male villain attacks a female.

So... why no examples of female villains returning the favor?

Meanwhile, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a Superhero to completely take out a villain beyond a shadow of a doubt. I don't want Superman trying to humiliate a foe, but if someone tough is taken down hard, I'm fine with that. And I would prefer to see it done more often in a woman against a man match up where the woman wins. Yes, I do want to see the Female Dr. Light completely fry the male Dr. Light so that he's not even concious as he's taken away. It happens all the time with Superheroes, and it should happen when a guy goes up against a woman if we're serious about this whole "equal rights" thing.

[Babylon23]

In #1 of the old Question series from the 80's, Lady Shiva lays a pretty big smackdown on the Question.

[Bat-Mite]

Can you provide me with some examples, where a male hero really did beat up a female villain to a bloody pulp?

The question is not just for heroes defeating villains; it is open for any character beating the tar out of another character, no matter what his or her moral alignment is.

Here is an example of male character humiliating female character

http://static.flickr.com/70/177483212_cd79de6593_m.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/74/177483213_448f319482_m.jpg

Notice that it goes beyond the simple beating and it even enters a creepy sexual subtext within the torture. That kind of stuff rarely happens to male characters when they fight females.

[Bat-Mite]

Double Post! Ignore this post, or better yet, don't ignore it and pretend I said something deep and meaningful.

[IamtheRock3]

Generally you only see "humiliating submission" when a male villain attacks a female.

So... why no examples of female villains returning the favor?

Meanwhile, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a Superhero to completely take out a villain beyond a shadow of a doubt. I don't want Superman trying to humiliate a foe, but if someone tough is taken down hard, I'm fine with that. And I would prefer to see it done more often in a woman against a man match up where the woman wins. Yes, I do want to see the Female Dr. Light completely fry the male Dr. Light so that he's not even concious as he's taken away. It happens all the time with Superheroes, and it should happen when a guy goes up against a woman if we're serious about this whole "equal rights" thing.

think cause it has a domination vibes if a women did that

With women getting beat it a BIG HEEL move to make you hate the villan


Woman doing that..may turn the reader on maybe...Only reason I can think of

[TheTen-EyedMan]

The end of PAD's Supergirl series. All of the series was great, and it was all about Supergirl becoming an important cosmic figure, the Earth-Angel, but the ending made the Linda Danvers Supergirl one of the greatest heroines in DC history. The Pre-Crisis Kara Zor-El found her way into the present by mistake, and a Supergirl-hunting multi-dimensional monster named Xenon was hunting her down. The Spectre came to Linda, telling her that Kara had to return to the point in time where she was misdirected, or The Crisis would result in the complete annihilation of the multiverse. Instead, Linda put herself in Kara's place, willing to sacrifice herself so Kara could continue to live on Earth as Clark's real cousin.

In the end, though, they decided that Kara had to go back and die anyway, and instead of using the more experienced Linda as the new Supergirl, they cancelled her series (which was getting much, much better). So the original Kara Zor-El still had to go back to The Crisis and die, and the selfless Linda who returned from the past as a more experienced hero is in character Limbo, and now they have this horrible, sophomoric Supergirl holding her own crappy series. :mad: Booooooooooooooooooooooo- er, anyway...

So yeah, the mid-Nineties version of Supergirl. Great heroine, acted selflessly knowing full-well what was in store for her, and even defeated Xenon, a being who had killed dozens of different versions of Supergirl across the multiverse.

There was a time when that was the only decent comic on the market.

Seems like the roles have been reversed somewhat.

[Damo]

In #1 of the old Question series from the 80's, Lady Shiva lays a pretty big smackdown on the Question.

She pretty much killed him. he was dead when she fished him out of the river. Still, I was reluctant to give that example because she was so far out of his league they really weren't comparable adversaries.

[Gozwald73]

Stealth beat the crapola out of Dox before she raped him while she was in heat

[Babylon23]

She pretty much killed him. he was dead when she fished him out of the river. Still, I was reluctant to give that example because she was so far out of his league they really weren't comparable adversaries.

Actually, Shiva just took him down and knocked him unconscious. After she'd finished with him, the hired goons took to him with a lead pipe, and then he was shot in the face with an air gun before being dumped in the river. She walked away from them in disgust.

You're right about Vic being completely out of his league, though.

[Rylon]

In issue #9 of PAD's Supergirl, IIRC, Linda fought both Buzz and Tempus Fugit. Buzz had been tormenting her all evening in issue 8 and twords the end of issue 9 she was wearing down, but she came back and laid some pretty havy smack down on Tempus.

The recent Supergirl and the Legion of Superheros is filled with example of a girl coming out on top. Issue 20 shows Supergirl beating-up a giant teenaged boy, and Cosmic Boy goes on to say she fought 7 other giants, persumibly at least a few of them were also male.

[Rylon]

Wow. This topic is apalling on so many levels. As a man, I’ve never had the slightest desire to see a male comic comic book character “exert vengeance” against a female character by “squishing” her “to a pulp” or beating her into “humiliating submission”.Nor do I, on general principles. If Supergirl is stopping a bank robbery, then squishing the thief to a pulp is likely a bad response. But, if a major villain has taken close family member hostage and blown-up a high-rise downtown office building in the middle of a weekday, then maybe, just maybe, a severe beat-down is in order.

I know that, if someone kidnapped my mom and killed or injured hundreds of people in my home city, I'd be likely to exact some vengeance the person. I can't blame woman for wanting to do the same thing in the same situation.

The Superhero genre is filled with such situations. Indeed, it was built on vengeance wish fulfillment. I don't think superhero stories are stuck in that kind of formula today, but certainly Superman started out like that. Superman was all about extracting vengeance from career criminals and gangsters. If you don't believe me, read any of the many reprints of the first issue of Superman. In that issue, Superman takes a gangster up on the power lines and threatens him.

[MythicBrawn]

Can you provide me with some examples, where a male hero really did beat up a femal villain to a bloody pulp? Not just knocking out or win after a fight, but really taking revenge and beat the heck out of the female villain.



I have a vague reference that probably no one knows/remembers. Does anybody remember Jim Shooter's short run company Defiant Comics? There was a comic Dogs of War and the main character, Shooter, beat a female child pornographer/exploiter pretty badly and put her in the hospital. That's bad in itself, but while she was recuperating, he then went to the hospital and beat on her some more. He wanted to be sure she didn't forget and pick up where she left off. He was so disgusted by his action that he threw up after the hospital beating. It doesn't make it right but that was pretty bad.