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View Full Version : Your Favorite Characters: Now Vs. Then!



Gail Simone
10-03-2006, 03:16 AM
Okay, here's the question of the day:

Speaking of your favorite comics characters, did you like how they were written when you first read them more or less than you do how they are written currently?

Try to see past the haze of nostalgia...if you love, say, Green Lantern, do you prefer how he is written now, or how he was written when you first discovered him?

And why?

This isn't a thread to bash creators, just wondering how beloved memory compares with the top talent on today's books.

Gail

YoGo
10-03-2006, 03:50 AM
Well my favourite character was SHOT in his first story arc because of SOMEBODY, so waiting for someone to come along and make him the new judomaster or dr. fate.

WhiteRose
10-03-2006, 04:13 AM
When I was six, I loved Spider-Man. Spider-Man was the biggest hero I'd ever had, to the point where I'd DREAM of having his superpowers.

Now he makes me wanna punch him in the teeth. Fucking Civil War. And his storylines for the last two years.

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 04:49 AM
Nightcrawler..I liked how Claremont wrote him better than he is being written now. I thought Claremont made him a really complex but lovable character. Brubaker is doing a great job now, better than anybody has done in a long time, but not as good as Claremont in his prime.

Colossus and Kitty Pryde...I think they are being written better now. Whedon has everything that I enjoyed about them in my childhood but does them better.

Blue Beetle... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... I am not going to get into this.

Booster Gold ... turned into a complete, unlikable jerk, killed off in a really really stupid way and then given a horrible funeral as a joke.

fire ... An assassin for the government who specializes in burning crowds of people alive who has some dark secret that is even worse than that.

Karen El
10-03-2006, 05:53 AM
I think Wonder Woman is probably better right now than it has been for a very long time. Not only is it good storytelling and lovely art, but it's probably the most fun it's been since Wonder Tot was fired.

Atom I liked way back in issue #1, but that may just be the nostalgia talking. And although I applaude the addition of Giganta to the team, which was a bit lacking in female representation, I can't help but feel that it's going to run into problems artistically before long. I mean when you have one person who is very large and another who is very small you are going to need really big pictures to fit both of them in at a recognisable level. Before long Atom is liable to be composed entirely of double page splashes.

Gilda Dent
10-03-2006, 06:12 AM
I think Wonder Woman is probably better right now than it has been for a very long time. Not only is it good storytelling and lovely art, but it's probably the most fun it's been since Wonder Tot was fired.

Atom I liked way back in issue #1, but that may just be the nostalgia talking. And although I applaude the addition of Giganta to the team, which was a bit lacking in female representation, I can't help but feel that it's going to run into problems artistically before long. I mean when you have one person who is very large and another who is very small you are going to need really big pictures to fit both of them in at a recognisable level. Before long Atom is liable to be composed entirely of double page splashes.

In other words, it'll be like Planetary or The Authority.

Gilda

Karen El
10-03-2006, 06:25 AM
In other words, it'll be like Planetary or The Authority.

Gilda

So long as Gail is still writing it I'll be happy.

Which makes me wonder what a Gail written Authority would be like.

Hmm.

Probably more shopping.

JeffreyWKramer
10-03-2006, 06:41 AM
For a long time, Hal Jordan was my favorite character. I grew up on him as shown in JLA and reprints of his old Golden Age stories. Not a very complex characterization, but one that worked - I liked the idea of a gutsy, confident guy who wins via willpower, and I still like it now.

It was only later that I read the classic O'Neil/Adams GL/GA stories, in which we first see Hal's confidence rattled by stuff that really shouldn't cause that result. What, Hal was so clueless about the US that he didn't know racism existed until Ollie showed him? WTF?

Thankfully, that was largely ignored in later GL back-up stories in books like FLASH, and when GL/GA came back, eventually reverting back to GL. Some good stories, pre-crisis, including the Predator saga.

Unfortunately, Hal has been written badly more often than not since CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. First there was the awful strip in ACTION COMICS WEEKLY, which portrayed him mostly as a loser. Later, "Emerald Dawn", portraying Hal's past as a problem drinker, then eventually "Emerald Twilight." Since he's returned, he's gone from being confident to mostly being a jerk. I mostly cringe when I read something including him these days. Really, the only exception in awhile has been Cooke's excellent THE NEW FRONTIER. Darwyn Cooke understands Hal.

I don't think all characters need to be complex. Superman/Clark Kent can be interesting enough with the dynamics of a virtual god pretending to be a normal man. Hal can be cool just being confident and gung-ho.

Gilda Dent
10-03-2006, 06:43 AM
Spider-Man: I have the Masterworks, all seven books, taking the story up through #67, and the Essentials to take me through #160. Add in Spectacular volumes 1 and 2, and it is a good time to be a Spider-Man fan. These stories hold up, the artwork is serviceable to very nice, and the character is appealing, sympathetic, and admirable. I liked the first couple of years of Straczynski's work, but I dropped my Spider-Man books with "The Other" cross over. Definitely a "back then" thing. I hope we get two more Essentials to take us up through Amazing 200, and enough in Spectacular to get us through 100.

Fantastic Four are hit or miss. Lee/Kirby did some brilliant stuff, and also had some comlpete clunkers. The late 40's through about 60 is probably the best run on a superhero comic ever. The characters, though, that's a bit different. Ben and Johnny were well done right off the bat, but Sue was an utter twit the first decade or so, and Reed a casual mosogynist. Byrne's run, and I start this with his artwork chores rather than the first writer/artist issue, improves Reed and Sue, makes the best use of She Hulk ever to that point, and reinvents Doom as a deeper, more compelling villain. Waid's FF had the best Reed ever, and the first to focus on him as the central character in a long time. Strazynski's run was one I liked a lot until the Civil War tie ins started and Strazynkski removed Reed's essential moral character, and has so far turned the book into a new version of The Thing. In short, "then", then being the Byrne and Waid/Weiringo runs. They got the characters.

Black Canary, Huntress: I say this not to suck up, but because it's true. Definitely now. These characters have been better treated by Gail and by Dixon than in their original incarnations.

Legion of Superheroes: Now, meaning Waid's LOSH, and Then, then being Shooter's, are about equal for me. This may seem strange, given Shooter's opposition to homosexuality but I still enjoy the stories themselves because have an all hetero Legion isn't quite the same as attacking homosexuality. The Beirbaums did endorse and bring the homosexual characters out, but the stories of their era were a slight step down from Shooter's. So then-then equally if we're talking Shooter vs. Waid, and now emphatically compared to early Legion or any of the three or four subsequent Legions between.

Teen Titans: Wolfman/Perez era. Nothing else comes close. Well, except the PAD Young Justice, which technically isn't Teen Titans, but it is closer to the concept than The Titans was at the time.

Superman, Batman, X-Men--gave up on them a few years back.

Daredevil: Now, way ahead of Lee's version, and slightly ahead of Miller and Nocenti.

Avengers: Then, then being the Stern and Busiek versions, and Byrne's West Coast Avengers.

Justice League: Then (Dematteis/Giffen)

Wonder Woman: This is the one character that varies the most in quality for me depending on the writer. Anything prior to the first Crisis, nah. Perez afterwards had the best version, so another "then".

Flash: The Silver Age by a slight bit over Wally West. I liked the goofy villains and self-contained isues, though come to think of it, that's story, not character, so I'll change this one to then, then being Wally West.

Gilda

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 06:49 AM
Daredevil: Now, way ahead of Lee's version, and slightly ahead of Miller and Nocenti.


gilda, I am trying to remember but was it you who said you were reluctant to read Daredevil after Bendis left?

JeffreyWKramer
10-03-2006, 06:55 AM
The Legion of Super-Heroes: Well, I've gone on my rant before. Definitely, absolutely and without a shadow of a doubt, I think the revisions and reboots of the Legion have been a bad thing. As far as I'm concerned, the Legion became terminally ill with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTH, seemed to recover some during the 5YL period, then declined markedly, and was eventually put out of their misery during the wretched ZERO HOUR.

Bob Violence
10-03-2006, 07:15 AM
After Civil War, the entire MU, but mainly Spider-Man. If you changed all the names and showed Stan Lee a Spider-Man script, he'd say "This guy doesn't ring any bells. You say I created him? Are you from the future?"
To be fair, it started with his marrying a super-model years ago, but it's gotten worse since then. The sad thing is, getting a divorce from MJ would bring Spider-Man back to his roots, but Marvel thinks they can't do it.

Gilda Dent
10-03-2006, 07:26 AM
gilda, I am trying to remember but was it you who said you were reluctant to read Daredevil after Bendis left?

Crap. That's right. I was using Bendis's version which means I'm talking "then", but because I'm not reading whoever took over I can't say now.

Move Daredevil to the list with Batman, Superman, and the X-Men. I'm not reading the "now" version, so I can't say. I did like the recent version better than any other, but that's still a "then".

JWK: Yep. I really dislike what they did with the whole era of the constant reboots and Time Trapper huge, never ending arc. I'll reread the originals through the end of LOSH volume 2 (one was a limited series of reprints).

Vol. 3 was badly contaminated with tie ins to the Superman reboot and the resulting pocket universe/Time Trapper/Glorith endless storyline.

The worst part was that it was entirely unnecessary. Stick Silver Age Superboy in the future and leave him there, and call him a leftover from previous continuity. They could have said he survived because he was in the future when the parallel earths all collapsed.

Or, if you are going to use the pocket universe thing, use it as a simple, neat little explanation, and keep Superboy in the Legion or kill him off.

Or let him be absorbed and deleted without it affecting Legion continuity. They could say all the time travel and visits did occur, they just occurred to a timeline that no longer exists.

It's a freakin thousand year time difference. There was no need to give anything more than a basic explanation. All the Superboy existed, but he came from the pocket universe, no wait, he never existed at all, it was really Mon-El, Supergirl never existed, it was really Laurel Gand, no wait, the Time Trapper created it all, no wait, the Time Trapper doesn't exist, it's an insane goddess, no wait, the time trapper does exist, but he's an insane alternate future Cosmic Boy, no wait, all the stories happened, no wait, none of them did, and we're going to start brand new, but wait, we'll make frequent reference to stories that didn't happen crap seemed designed to screw things up.

How about this: Keep continuity and don't explain it at all! Or a simple one liner--it's one possible future (this works fine for Spider-Girl).

Arrrgh. They had a nice little saftey valve for interesting characters that didn't fit post-crisis continuity: Stick them into the Legion future.

Good god, I can come up with a dozen good ways to leave Legion continuity alone during all of the various crises.

How about this: The Legion is 1000 years in the future. It'll take a thousand years for the timeline changes to reach them.

Company wide integration of continuity, creating a percieved need for crossovers and continuity fixes that tie into other books ruined the Legion, and eventually has infected nearly everything about the big two to the point that they're constantly "fixing continuity" and screwing up good stories in the individual books.

I liked that Spectacular Spider-Man had what amounted to it's own separate continuity from Amazing for years, with only a few basic elements shared, and a different tone to the stories.

Yes, let's keep internal continuity relatively consistent, but universe wide stuff that serves as service to the most anal-retentive fanboys really doesn't make the stories in the books themselves any better.

Gilda [continuity rant #14]

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 07:39 AM
Crap. That's right. I was using Bendis's version which means I'm talking "then", but because I'm not reading whoever took over I can't say now.

Gotta say, you are doing yourself a diservice. Brubake is absolutely great on Daredevil.

Zeb Oswalt
10-03-2006, 07:51 AM
1.Huntress Then Well that was Helaniea Wayne when I first read her. The new one was descent liked the whole mafia thing. Now a great member of BOP. I still think the 700 sit up joke with her and Black Cannery in the current run was great, Good one Ms. Gal.


2. Captain Britain Then Collage Student and friend of Peter Parker. I loved the full face mask and his hair sticking out of it bit. Now, an important part of the whole house of M story. To bad he lost the love of his life. Or is she the second love of his life. Granted Courtney Rose was also killed... well before House of M. Is she still dead?

3. Super Man still great few minor things here and there, but great.

4. She Hulk then a funny Character Handel ed By John Byrne. Now a funny character Handel by Dan Sloth and mostly Juan Bobillo With great Greg Horn covers.

5. Night Hawk Then a millionaire smart Alice. I think he's still rich, just now he's a racist afro American hero. And has about as much humor as Bats. Couldn't he have just been made an Afro American hero but, be the same guy?

6. Misty Knight then Crime detective now... ware is she any way?

7. Spider Man some guys never change.

8. Lilith Drake The daughter of Dac and cool anti hero. Now Thurmatoist for some reason. And S.H.E.I.L.D. agent.

9. Night Shade Then Villain whom apposed Cap. And she had a brilliant Mind. Now a Brilliant Scientist whom helps Black Panther.

10. Dr. Light Brilliant woman Scientist with light powers now, is she still alive?

11. Martian Man hunter Then funny guy who loved Oreo. Now some times detective member of the JLA

12. Fire Cool fun gal. Now...well she was in thing that came after Indent Crisis.

13. Bat Man hasn't changed.

14. Babs Then Bat Girl. Now she's the Orical. First computer genius and female Nero Wolf. Black Carry was her Archie. Guys that makes the Huntress her Archie now.

15. Red Skull Loon Villain bent on World Donation. Now slick business man with his fingers in Several pies. Creating chaos threw the back. Oh wait Bucky killed him.


16. Zealot Bad to the bone warrior ...we'll see what Grant Morison does to her.

17. Crazy Jane. Then lunatic with many powers. Now haven't seen her since Grant Morison stepped her up a notch.

18. Robot Man..well about the same.

19. Ambush bug. Crazy character in blizzard sit ions Now Rapper...what the...?

20. Kitty Pride Then Great Member of Excalibur sorry didn't like her till then. Now Buff.

21. Rachel Van Halsing. Bad to the bone vampire slayer. Buff who? Now she's dust.

22. Lobo Then the comic book version of Lenny from Motor head mixed with Ted Nuget and a touch of Gean Simons. Now ....gggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhahhhh. To pointless for words. Though Keiff Griffin did a good job when he revived him in his book. Not sure if it stuck or not.


23. Power Girl. Then Great JLE member now back to basics.

24. Death Lock The Cybor...Now A Mega death poster. If his body is rotting how can his hair grow? His flesh can't even live any more as it's decaying, but he can grow Fa bio hair? This one gets a mind of Mancea award.

25. Rag Man then Bad to the bone Vigilante. Now a rag Gollem? Some one write peace on his Forehead in Yiddish and remove the e. Please!

26. Brun hilda The Valkyrie then Great Defenders member. Now is she the embody meant of death or just dead now?

27. Super Girl then Super Man's cousin now er super Man's cousin.

28. Jason Tood Yep I'm the one. Then sadistic Robin. Now Red Mask.

29. Rose and the Thorn. Then Lunatic Now Vigilante

30. Jade Then Member of Infinity Inc. Now Green Lantern.

31. Poison Ivy, Then Great villain . Now Swamp Thing's sister.

32. Blade didn't like him till the movie. Wasn't a fan of him till they made him a day walker. Like his book when it was published.

33. Shang Chi Then David Carden. Now Bruce Lee. Odd since the Cat was Bruce lee in his comic.

34. Nova Then Great hero cool powers. Now....em reality tv star?

35. Namrita Then great female Namor. Now..dead. And the dead mother she was cloned from is alive.

36. US Agent Pscho Captain Americas. Now snnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooring.

37. Tigra hey some good things stay the same.

Charles RB
10-03-2006, 07:58 AM
When I was younger, I used to really like Ben Reilly and Egmont Fleetway's versions of Sonic the Hedgehog & Knuckles. Now the former is dead and the latter had their comic cancelled, so that's that buggered up.



To be fair, it started with his marrying a super-model years ago, but it's gotten worse since then. The sad thing is, getting a divorce from MJ would bring Spider-Man back to his roots

How? Mary Jane hasn't been a supermodel for years, and getting divorced won't bring him back to his roots because he'll still have a public ID, almost no non-superhero friends, and be living in the Avengers' penthouse.

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 07:59 AM
6. Misty Knight then Crime detedtive now... ware is she any way?

Bounty Hunter in Heroes for Hire.

Gilda Dent
10-03-2006, 08:02 AM
Gotta say, you are doing yourself a diservice. Brubake is absolutely great on Daredevil.

It's certainly possible, but I've never found myself satisfied with a change from a favorite writer on a book I liked, so I thought I'd spare myself the disappointment.

Gilda

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 08:04 AM
It's certainly possible, but I've never found myself satisfied with a change from a favorite writer on a book I liked, so I thought I'd spare myself the disappointment.

Gilda


When the TPB comes out you might want to try it. : shrug:

BlackCanaryGuy
10-03-2006, 08:08 AM
Black Canary--Definitely prefer her now, although I *did* love that fun, vivacious Canary of the 70s.... even if I read those books in the late eighties.

Kevinroc
10-03-2006, 10:13 AM
Hulk. I came in during the PAD run and have enjoyed reading his run. The Joe Casey run was not that good. The John Byrne relaunch was... not that good. The Paul Jenkins run was enjoyable. The Bruce Jones run started out good but eventually degenerated into a go-nowhere conspiracy theory story.

I liked PAD's return but the focus was on retconning Jones' run and the House of M tie-in. Giving Pad not much wiggle room. The story of the ghost woman approaching Bruce with art by Jae Lee was very good.

The Prelude to Planet Hulk story was slow-paced. SLOOOOOOOOOOW-paced. Should be the definition for decompressed comics.

Greg Pak's Planet Hulk has definitely restored my love of Hulk. Go Hulk! Smash the puny humans!

Patriot07
10-03-2006, 12:30 PM
After Civil War, the entire MU, but mainly Spider-Man. If you changed all the names and showed Stan Lee a Spider-Man script, he'd say "This guy doesn't ring any bells. You say I created him? Are you from the future?"
To be fair, it started with his marrying a super-model years ago, but it's gotten worse since then. The sad thing is, getting a divorce from MJ would bring Spider-Man back to his roots, but Marvel thinks they can't do it.

I don't see why everyone has a problem with him marrying a super model. It's MJ. It's not like they just created some random character just because they wanted him to marry a super model. He's been with her forever. It's natural progression.

Thomas
10-03-2006, 12:38 PM
My favorite character is Superman. And I started reading him as a kid with old issues from the seventies out of a bin froma used bookstore. And today the only current Superman title I'm reading is AS Supes, which is, for all intents and purposes, the 60s and 70s Superman done brilliantly now, so I'm very happy with both versions, as they're pretty much the same thing.


I hear good things about the regular titles these days though, and I've been tempted to give them another chance.

amboy00
10-03-2006, 12:54 PM
I really like Power Pack as a kid. I must have read every issue I could get my hands on.

I like how it is being written now too. It's still geared for kids and I still read it too.

I would LOVE for Marvel to release an archive of the old stuff.

TCJohnson
10-03-2006, 12:56 PM
I really like Power Pack as a kid. I must have read every issue I could get my hands on.

I like how it is being written now too. It's still geared for kids and I still read it too.

I would LOVE for Marvel to release an archive of the old stuff.

Seconded.

I would also not mind seeing the Snarks as a major threat in space like how the Skrulls used to be.

Zeb Oswalt
10-03-2006, 03:33 PM
Bounty Hunter in Heroes for Hire.


Ah ok cool thanx.

amboy00
10-03-2006, 03:40 PM
Seconded.

I would also not mind seeing the Snarks as a major threat in space like how the Skrulls used to be.Oh ya totally! "I'll get you Powersssss!"

I'm just imaging them hissing, I don't remember if they actually do... but they should start.

heystacy
10-03-2006, 04:03 PM
I have alaways loved Green lantern (Hal Jordan) ever since he was on the "Super Friends" cartoon. I was saddened when he went coo-coo for Coco Puffs, and transformed into a villian, ghost, and being posessed by a parasite. Now that he's back, I have mixed feelings about him.


Monica Rambeau from Nextwave. I loved that there is a heroic sister who fought justice and lead the Avengers. I loath the mandate to be rid of her in the Avengers, and was pleased she lived through the experience.

Damo
10-03-2006, 04:11 PM
1. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)... so yes, definitely written better originally.

2. Batman- I'd say at this moment the current Batman is a little weaker, due to the aftermath of some very bad stories. If it wasn't for the fact that they're still leaving a bad taste in the books, I'd say they come about even.

3. Richard Dragon/Bronze Tiger/Lady Shiva - Better originally. Tiger in Suicide Squad and Dragon in Question were excellent and very fun. I won't go into their recent "revamp", let's just say I'm disgusted and hope it doesn't stick. Lady Shiva... there's one writer that seems to write a good Shiva these days (I'm not naming any names...) and a few that have done an outright terrible job these days. Even still, I miss how she was in The Question, an enigmatic sphynx that kept you guessing about what she wanted.

Death's Head: Death's Head is not dead, yes?

Sharpandpointies
10-03-2006, 07:09 PM
1. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)... so yes, definitely written better originally.


Quoted for emphasis. Agree with a lot of the Shiva stuff, as well.

Dr. Strange.

Half the time when I pick up a book with the Doc in it (seeing as he doesn't have his own series anymore) he's an utter and complete prick. Sarcastic, superior, arrogant.

He never used to be that way. Yes, he could be distant and moody - rarely. He was also kind, compassionate, and ready to listen. He was a good man who knew what it was like to be sarcastic, superior, and arrogant (which he was before), and had no intention of being that way now.

Then came what was supposed to be a great revamp for the good Doctor - the recent miniseries. The art was great. The rest made my ears bleed.

I'm not pleased with him at all.

...he ought to be weighing on this Civil War thing. Of course, that would be like slapping the Surfer down on one side or the other.

Sabrinaset
10-03-2006, 07:32 PM
I'm not sure, but I think one of my favorite characters sure has changed in a few months!

She went from THIS ...

http://planetkaren.girl-wonder.org/istrip_files/strips/20060302.jpg

...to THIS!

http://planetkaren.girl-wonder.org/istrip_files/strips/20061003.jpg

And I like it too! :)

Sharpandpointies
10-03-2006, 07:45 PM
I'm not sure, but I think one of my favorite characters sure has changed in a few months!

She went from THIS ...

http://planetkaren.girl-wonder.org/istrip_files/strips/20060302.jpg

...to THIS!

http://planetkaren.girl-wonder.org/istrip_files/strips/20061003.jpg

And I like it too! :)

Definitely an amazing boost. :) I love the art on that comic, especially the facial expressions.

Cam63
10-03-2006, 07:48 PM
She do good work.

Kevinroc
10-03-2006, 08:08 PM
Death's Head: Death's Head is not dead, yes?

Which Death's Head do you like? There have been a few of them.

As far as I know, Death's Head I & II are in character limbo. A number of Death's Head 3.0 (they are robots or something) are playing a role in Planet Hulk.

Here's some Death's Head 3.0 cyborgs taking on The Hulk.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8995/durability2ih94aly2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1706/durability2ih94bkk3.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1933/durability2ih94cco4.jpg

Sharpandpointies
10-03-2006, 08:15 PM
Here's some Death's Head 3.0 cyborgs taking on The Hulk.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8995/durability2ih94aly2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1706/durability2ih94bkk3.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1933/durability2ih94cco4.jpg

Personally, I liked the odd-looking one who said '...yes?' all the time. :)

As for them taking on the Hulk...I would say 'getting stomped by the Hulk.' Great scans. :)

The Xenos
10-03-2006, 08:47 PM
Nightwing... uuuuuuuuuuuugh. I still got a poster of the cover of issue two. I prefer looking at that than reading the current series. Thankfully, Wolfman is writing the next issue, so there is much much hope.

Birds of Prey - To me, it's always been an awesome book. Dixon, Hernandez, Moore, Simone. I liked them all, all good to outstanding. Contantly a favorite book.

Huntress - I used to like the character. I didn't quite like her and Dick getting together because I was a fan of Dick and Babs together. Then I fell for a Sicilian girl myself and became quite a fan of the character. Though I had to tell her to avoid the TV show like the plauge and if I ever found my comics, I'd loan them to her as she asked. Sadly, I could only find the Nightwing series and I wanted to give her the one with Question because I liked the chemistry between her and Question better.

Question - I first read him in the Huntress mini. I became quite interested. Read that recent mini. I loved him (and Huntress) on the JLU toon. I want more! 52 is driving me nuts! I want him in his own series. I also want to check out the old Ditko series and the O'Neil stuff. I know they're all a bit different, but I like them all from what I've read or even only just heard.

Robin - Eh. I just haven't found a writer I like on the book since Dixon left. Also, I miss Young Justice by David something fierce.

Green Arrow - Well, I'm ignoring the Connor Hawke stuff I first read. Also, I remember the action figure and the character as a kid. I read the Smith reboot. It was.. ok. Metzger had an awesome run. (Though his work in comics ends there for me.) Winick was good and this was an excellent book for him being a liberal himself. Hilarious how conservative Chuck Dixon's books have pretty much all gone to liberal writers. Not saying it's bad at all, or good even, just kinda funny. Though Winick's run got kinda wonky and that Riddler arc and then the Zantana issue made me drop the book. The inconsistant art and loss of Hester didn't help. Then with McDaniel on art chores on the book One Year Later I had to come back and I am enjoying.

Jason Todd - Should still be in his damn grave. Bah.

X-Men - I used to get Uncanny and Adjectiveless and like them. I got in just before Onslaught. I liked them. Now? Eh. Claremont came back and I didn't care for it. The only main X-book I get is Whedon's. Though a number of side and tangential X books like Deadpool or X-Factor have me hooked.

Gen13 - I think Fairchild got me through puberty. Kidding. Kinda. Anyway, seriously, I sometimes picked up the book. I really liked Bootleg. I loved Adam Warren's stuff. It was really weird and really awesome when he killed everyone in a blatant rip off of End of Evanglelion with Fairchild as the giant naked Rei absorbing everyone's soul. Also the issue where Fairchild fought a pop star / song that was a living meme introduced me in highschool to the field of memetics which I later wrote about in a college class on evolution. Now? Well if Gail would get the lead out and get issue one shipped I could tell ya!



6. Misty Knight then Crime detective now... ware is she any way?
She's with Colleen Wing in the recent Daughters of the Dragon mini series (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=5044) written by Plamotti and Grey with nice art by Khari Evans. Supervillian bail bonds women. Quite awesome. It's now a new Heros for Hire series by the same writing tam and a Civil War book. She also appeared for a bit in an Ultimate Marvel Ellis book, but it was just ok.



11. Martian Man hunter Then funny guy who loved Oreo. Now some times detective member of the JLA
I hear they're doing some weird stuff to him in this new mini series. I miss the old Morrison JLA and the Ostrander/Mandrake series where I first really saw him. Well, besides the action figures I had when I was like 9.

DungeonmasterJim
10-04-2006, 05:02 AM
Phoenix II (or 3?)/Rachel Summers/Rachel Grey.

My favorite character and I discoverd her when I first got into comics. Hot headed, quick to act, a loner and used violence to solve problems. I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed her in Excalibur where Alan Davis made her visuals awesome - both the hound outfit and her Phoenix effect. A bit of a tomboy that never realized what a turn on she was.

She became rather lame in Claremont's most recent Uncanny tenure. Whiney about her mother, took her mom's code name (again), horrible looking costumes and hair (even by Davis. Gah!) and a punching bag for every villain. Claremonts seems to write arch type characters (the strong guy, the mystery girl, the smart guy) and Rachel de-evolved to become his standard rookie of the team guy. There were hints of great possibilities in the most current Claremont run but he never explored them such as Rachel's ability to be extremely stealthy when the need arises.

Currently Brubaker hasn't done much with Rachel except make her converse with Warpath but that is an upgrade from a whiney punching bag. Still waiting for Rachel to get cool again.


Rogue was really cool when she first showed up in the X-Men. I like my girl characters a little pyscho and unpredicable and Rogue was that having been a former villain. I enjoyed her being a tough little cookie that liked to mix it up by brawling while being playful at the same time.

Then Gambit came along and Rogue went to hell. Part of this was because I felt Gambit was in the X-Men to be the 'cool guy' and Claremont just said he was cool and we were to accept it and I just found him lame. And their romance only became worse and worse.

Now, under Carey, Rogue is free of Gambit and back to being a sassy tough girl who uses her absorption powers really well. Only the flame powers bug me. Do we really need another Human Torch running around? Yeesh. Fortunately, Carey rarely seems to use Rogue's flame powers. And I'm glad. She's too cool a character to be a second rate carbon copy of the Human Torch.

DM Jim

Bob Violence
10-04-2006, 06:32 AM
How? Mary Jane hasn't been a supermodel for years, and getting divorced won't bring him back to his roots because he'll still have a public ID, almost no non-superhero friends, and be living in the Avengers' penthouse.
I'd get him tossed from the Avengers, too. Then he'd have that 'loser' thing going again.

Charles RB
10-04-2006, 07:16 AM
Death's Head: Death's Head is not dead, yes?

With all the time-travelling and dimension-hopping Death's Head does, it's really easy to have the original DH show up in a title without contradicting his future death. Bonus!

TCJohnson
10-04-2006, 07:17 AM
With all the time-travelling and dimension-hopping Death's Head does, it's really easy to have the original DH show up in a title without contradicting his future death. Bonus!


even so...with the future death's head having NOTHING to do with the original besides name, that would still be easy.

LtMarvel
10-04-2006, 08:22 AM
As a child of the 70s, I have mixed feelings about Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family. I love that they are integrated into the DC Universe (I wish someone would make better use of the other Fawcett heroes). Captain Marvel has shined in JSA, Justice and other appearances. Freddy was a member of the Teen Titans. The cartoony look is gone, but the fun stuff (Talky Tawny, Mr. Mind) remain.

And the bad guys...Captain Marvel's foes are everywhere...Black Adam rules his own country (and maybe not so evil!?). Sivana took over the Fatal Five (and has a cool Thankgiving appearence upcoming in 52!). How long before King Kull turns out to be Vandal Savage's first rival? Ibac can even make a cameo in Secret Six.

Then there is the current series... Freddy is in college and (apparently) is about to change name and costume. Mary is in a coma (does Billy even visit? Or even her parents?). Billy has a new job "managing the Rock of Eternity" (What about Billy's teenaged life?). I dunno about these changes. I'll give them a chance, but...

I like that Captain Marvel is the go to guy when magic attacks. I'm not sure why DC decided to change the Marvel Family further before trying a series with that status.

MartinRedmond
10-04-2006, 09:47 AM
In my opinion, you should change stuff but not deny past stuff. That's when it gets convoluted and boring.

SpiderMan was doing a lot better when they married him. That was a change for the better. Then it started sucking when they used Venom every 12 issue to bring back sales up. It's been a train wreck from there on.

Most X-Men characters, I couldn't recognise them as soon as Claremont was out. A lot of them had a complete change in attitude so I was like why is this still even called X-Men?

Fantastic Four was fun til Byrne left. I like the Englehart run and then, well I don't think anyone has given it their very best effort on that title since then.

MartinRedmond
10-04-2006, 09:49 AM
Then Gambit came along and Rogue went to hell. Part of this was because I felt Gambit was in the X-Men to be the 'cool guy' and Claremont just said he was cool and we were to accept it and I just found him lame. And their romance only became worse and worse.

CC didn't pair them up. Bob Harras and the following writers did.

MacQuarrie
10-04-2006, 10:54 AM
It's a 50/50 thing for me. I prefer teh personalities of the characters as they were portrayed in the olden days, but the quality of the writing is vastly improved today.

There are a few writers (you, Busiek, Waid...) who have a firm grasp of the characters' classic personalities and combine that with the modern writing style. Others (Meltzer, Winick)... not so much.

For example, Brad Meltzer. His writing is all about the emotional life of the cast. We really get to feel what Superman or Batman are feeling. But his plots are contrived, and he frequently misses the core of the character.

In a perfect world, we'd have, to give another example, Geoff Johns writing about a Hal Jordan who in some way resembles the guy Gardner Fox and John Broome wrote about.

Sharpandpointies
10-04-2006, 11:43 AM
...Geoff Johns writing about a Hal Jordan who in some way resembles the guy Gardner Fox and John Broome wrote about.

See, I read that completely wrong the first time.

I saw this:

Geoff Johns writing about a Hal Jordan who in some way resembles the Guy Gardner Fox and John Broome wrote about.

As in, a Hal Jordan that resembles the characterization of Guy Gardner that Fox and Broome wrote about.

:)

brundlefly
10-04-2006, 12:05 PM
When I was six, I loved Spider-Man. Spider-Man was the biggest hero I'd ever had, to the point where I'd DREAM of having his superpowers.

Now he makes me wanna punch him in the teeth. Fucking Civil War. And his storylines for the last two years.

That's spot-on almost the same thing I was going to post. I grew up reading Spidey in the 80s with Stern's ASM run (Black costume, "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut", Hobgobin, etc.) and he was my favorite comics character by a landslide. I devoured any Spidey-related titles and back issues at my LCS, like Spectacular, Marvel Team-Up, reprints of the Lee years. These days, though, I almost don't recognize the "unmasked," bone-claw wielding, New Avenger-ing Tony Stark lapdog calling himself Spider-Man. He's been the victim of some seriously bad writing and "revamps."

Jerry W. Loper
10-04-2006, 02:17 PM
I prefer the original versions of both my favorite characters, Tigra and the Thing. Hey, my favorites are both orange with 5-letter names that start with T (and the city I live in's the same way)! The original Marvel Chillers Tigra from the mid-1970s was a smart, no-nonsense crime fighter who would have got disgusted by the 1980s-1990s dimwit Tigra and would've kicked her dizzy tail to the curb if she'd ever met her. Strength-wise, the Thing doesn't get near the respect he used to, and to my sorrow, a lot of young readers nowadays like him that way, they seem to want him to be a 2nd or 3rd tier brick who has grit. Me, I'd power him up so he'd rank just a hair below Hulk, Thor, Hercules, wet Namor, and maybe equal to Wonder Man.

Sharpandpointies
10-04-2006, 06:54 PM
I now eat my words.

I picked up Dr. Strange: The Oath #1 (of 5). The art isn't anything great, but it isn't terrible, either. The very few out of character exclamations Strange makes are perfectly understandable (given the circumstances) and he's much more like he used to be.

So far, so good.

berk
10-04-2006, 08:25 PM
Off the top of my head, I can't think of any modern versions that have improved on, or even matched the originals. Most of the best characters have already received their definitive treatments long, long ago, and I'd prefer to see writers working on their own creations.

Sabrinaset
10-04-2006, 08:51 PM
I just read Fantastic Four 540.

In order to wash the awful taste outta my head, I re-read the FF Marvel Essentials #3. Yeah! Now THAT'S the REAL FF! I dunno what I'm reading in the JMS version, but it ain't the FF I wanna see.

JeffreyWKramer
10-04-2006, 08:51 PM
One character I like now much more than I ever did in the past is Luke Cage. Bendis really rehabilitated the character, moving him beyond blaxploitation stereotypes while keeping him loyal to the street aspects of the character. Across ALIAS and other titles, he's become a much better, well-rounded character over the past few years than he had been in the previous 25 years or so.

Damo
10-04-2006, 09:49 PM
Hurm. There is only one Death's Head, yes? Multiple looks for tax evasion.



One character I like now much more than I ever did in the past is Luke Cage. Bendis really rehabilitated the character, moving him beyond blaxploitation stereotypes while keeping him loyal to the street aspects of the character. Across ALIAS and other titles, he's become a much better, well-rounded character over the past few years than he had been in the previous 25 years or so.

Feh. Bendis has Luke Cage swearing left and right, forgetting one of my favorite things about the character - he promised his grandmother he would never swear, and she was a far scarier thing than any super villain. That's an interesting bit of history and characterization and he chucked it because it wasn't "real" enough.

Kevinroc
10-04-2006, 10:12 PM
Feh. Bendis has Luke Cage swearing left and right, forgetting one of my favorite things about the character - he promised his grandmother he would never swear, and she was a far scarier thing than any super villain. That's an interesting bit of history and characterization and he chucked it because it wasn't "real" enough.

"Sweet Christmas!"

Tobias March
10-05-2006, 03:50 AM
Iron Man was the first comic I ever read. The first issue featured IM in China trying to arrange a business deal and finding his contact murdered by the Mandarin, now posing as a respectable company CEO. Then the fight scenes with ring-bearing acolytes began.

That was kinda goofy fun, while retaining some elements of what could loosely be called the real world (corporate business deals? In comics?)

But the 90's were a hard time for Tony. Now people don't like what's being done to the character with Civil War, but to be honest I prefer Iron Man conflicted. I never saw him as a straight up hero and find him more interesting otherwise.

So maybe Millar has the right idea. I'll wait this out.

But IM in the 90's was almost as dull as the 14th century!

Sharpandpointies
10-05-2006, 04:40 AM
Hurm. There is only one Death's Head, yes? Multiple looks for tax evasion.


That's the one! :)

Zeb Oswalt
10-05-2006, 07:16 AM
She's with Colleen Wing in the recent Daughters of the Dragon mini series (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=5044) written by Plamotti and Grey with nice art by Khari Evans. Supervillian bail bonds women. Quite awesome. It's now a new Heros for Hire series by the same writing tam and a Civil War book. She also appeared for a bit in an Ultimate Marvel Ellis book, but it was just ok.


I hear they're doing some weird stuff to him in this new mini series. I miss the old Morrison JLA and the Ostrander/Mandrake series where I first really saw him. Well, besides the action figures I had when I was like 9.


Cool thanx I'll check those out.

Dreadstar
10-05-2006, 07:57 AM
I liked how ALL my favorite characters were written THEN opposed to now. Why?

Because Stan Lee came along and felt the absolute need to attach continuity to the characters and stories, and nowadays the characters can't even fart without someone screaming that Batman would be a one-cheek-sneak and not a full on flutterblaster.

I long for hokey silver age days when you picked up an Adventure with the LSH and everything you needed to know was already in your hands. A Sgt. Rock that, at most, might have been a continuation of last month's comic. A Ditko Dr. Strange that didn't NEED to make sense of continuity. HELL! A Curt Swan Superman where the vague continuity sometimes didn't even make sense within the covers of the same 80-page Giant.

I picked up an Avengers book a couple months ago. I had absolutley no idea what was going on.

That's why I liked then. The writing now might be far superior, smarter, more nuanced and literary, but in so many cases, the writers seem to have been handcuffed within constraints of what they CAN'T do more than within what they CAN.

Gilda Dent
10-05-2006, 08:30 AM
Feh. Bendis has Luke Cage swearing left and right, forgetting one of my favorite things about the character - he promised his grandmother he would never swear, and she was a far scarier thing than any super villain. That's an interesting bit of history and characterization and he chucked it because it wasn't "real" enough.

I liked jettisoning that bit. It was backstory used to explain why a street savvy tough guy didn't swear. Obviously, he didn't swear because it wasn't permitted, but for some reason they didn't just let him have the strange curse or none at all.

Given that the same restriction on cursing doesn't apply any longer, the backstory doesn't matter. Then again, I'm a fan of loose internal continuity, and have never liked strict long term continuity, and hate strict cross company continuity.

Gilda