Neil Gaiman and Harry Potter.

[Brannon]

Is it true that one of Neil Gaiman's characters was the "inspiration" for JK Rowling's now world famous wizard? I've heard various snippets over the years but wanted to ask about the specifics. Which came first? Gaiman's stories or Rowlings?

[Armless Penguin]

I assume you mean Tim Hunter, who came quite a bit earlier than Harry Potter.

But there's no evidence Potter was in anyway "inspired" by Hunter, just a remarkable similarity.

[Ryan Day]

Strictly speaking, Gaiman's Books of Magic, about a young boy training to be a great magician, came about ten years before Harry Potter. It wasn't the inspiration for Potter, though, since both draw on a number of elements common to both British literature and mythology: Young boy, probably an orphan, leaves home to learn about magic. Owls are involved. The only reason they were drawn together was because of a woman who was suing Rowling for plagiarism who also said that Gaiman had accused her of stealing, when he'd made no such claim.

Gaiman covers it pretty well in this interview (http://www.januarymagazine.com/profiles/gaiman.html), summarizing the whole thing quite nicely by saying "I thought we were both just stealing from T.H. White."

[the film freak]

Neil Gaiman invented little British kids with glasses. Little known fact.

[Simon Garth]

Strictly speaking, Gaiman's Books of Magic, about a young boy training to be a great magician, came about ten years before Harry Potter. It wasn't the inspiration for Potter, though, since both draw on a number of elements common to both British literature and mythology: Young boy, probably an orphan, leaves home to learn about magic. Owls are involved. The only reason they were drawn together was because of a woman who was suing Rowling for plagiarism who also said that Gaiman had accused her of stealing, when he'd made no such claim.

Gaiman covers it pretty well in this interview (http://www.januarymagazine.com/profiles/gaiman.html), summarizing the whole thing quite nicely by saying "I thought we were both just stealing from T.H. White."

Hmm. Personally, I'd say that Rowling has rather liberally "re-interpreted" from Antony Buckeridge, amongst others - not the magic stuff, but the boarding school stuff is "strongly reminiscent" of the Jennings books that I read as a kid, along with many others of that ilk, which Britain churned out by the hundred, in both books and comics

[jerrymcl89]

In broad strokes, Harry Potter does closely resemble Tim Hunter. But I think Rowling added enough trappings to the character to legitimately claim (whether she had read Books of Magic at all or not) that he's a seperate creation. Which seems to be Neil Gaiman's view, as well.

[noh-varr]

The last issue of Books of Magic ongoing series there's a line saying something along the lines of, if Neil gaiman had written this as a novel instead he'd have been very rich. I don't think she stole the idea at all, arent there many stories of young boys learning magic in Englad? And the image of the boy with thick glasses is in many stories there.

[redoogie]

Awfully similar but I really doubt it served as her inspiration.

[static]

anyone have an actual timeline ??? as i was reading Books of Magic years later in TPB i was astounded at how similar the stories were....has there been any legal agreement between the two ?? i would be very surprised if it never came up before legally....

[Screwtape]

Be surprised. It never came up.

Neil Gaiman steals so frequently (and well, IMHO) that he couldn't possibly justify calling another writer out for using one of his ideas, unless it was something totally egregious like directly quoting his work.

[DonC]

anyone have an actual timeline ??? as i was reading Books of Magic years later in TPB i was astounded at how similar the stories were....has there been any legal agreement between the two ?? i would be very surprised if it never came up before legally....


Books of Magic (the miniseries) came out in 1989. JK Rowling said she got the idea for Harry Potter in 1990. The first novel was published in 1997.

Neil Gaiman has never, to the best of my knowledge, claimed Harry Potter was ripped off of Tim Hunter.

[Hellpop]

No, Gaiman has addressed this in several interviews, and has always chuckled about the similarity. I think it might be different if he owned the rights to the character-- but he doesn't, DC does. And Harry Potter is published by Scolastic, an imprint of Warner, which also owns DC.... I've always wondered if maybe Neil wasn't given a little sum to not bring the matter up, but we'll never know. In any event, he's never shown any interest in writing a perceived wrong, as he's generally a nice guy. I think he would probably have a very good case, if he persued it; certainly, similar copyright decisions have found for the plaintiff with even more circumstancial coincidences involved.

[Ryan Day]

I think he would probably have a very good case, if he persued it; certainly, similar copyright decisions have found for the plaintiff with even more circumstancial coincidences involved.

I don't think he'd have much of a case, unless there was some specific evidence connecting Rowling to Books of Magic. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of thematic and plot elements that were being used many times before either one of them was born. T.H. White could probably sue both of them, if he were still alive.

[Agentum]

Be surprised. It never came up.

Neil Gaiman steals so frequently (and well, IMHO) that he couldn't possibly justify calling another writer out for using one of his ideas, unless it was something totally egregious like directly quoting his work.
And he doesn't, he have said that he don't think Potter is swiped from his comics.

And "steal" is a bit to much, all writers takes part from other storys and media now and then.
And why not?

[Hellpop]

I don't think he'd have much of a case, unless there was some specific evidence connecting Rowling to Books of Magic. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of thematic and plot elements that were being used many times before either one of them was born. T.H. White could probably sue both of them, if he were still alive.

Yes, but that's the same thing I would have said about Captian Marvel in relation to Superman....

[Paul McEnery]

Neil's been paid off by Rowling.

He's on retainer in case Alan Rickman pops his clogs.

[BeastieRunner]

Neil does hit his point with T.H. White and it's too bad people don't see that about Harry Potter: a book written that kids read because they've seen the movies. It recycles books, movies like Star Wars, and so on. It's a derivative book with no imagination. But I digress . . .

If Todd MacFarlane invented Tim Hunter, it would be a new story. :D

[bacci40]

the second harry potter came out, I knew that at least the character was directly lifted from books of magic, as well as other concepts being lifted from sandman...and apparently gaiman did too.

however, warner almost immediatly optioned sandman (never to be made) and also optioned books of magic (too be made but with alot of changes including tim's age, place of origin, and changing his glasses)

while it has never been proven, gaiman was most assuradly payed off in some way.

add to that his long standing suit with the toddler over the rights to miracle man, and you have a guy who doesnt want to be spending his writing time sitting in a court room.

the fact is, rowling has never been able to explain where she got her ideas from....and she would be the only author in history that has ever occured to. ideas for books just dont come to one...they have to be gleaned from somewhere, but somehow this welfare mom thought up everything in the origiinal book as she sat on a train....preposterous.

a much more interesting non lawsuit is the one that never took place between grant morrison and the wachowski bros over their lifting characters, concepts and entire scenes for the matrix from his far superior, the invisibles. of course, they also stole from many more people, so that would have to be a class action suit.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

the second harry potter came out, I knew that at least the character was directly lifted from books of magic, as well as other concepts being lifted from sandman...and apparently gaiman did too.

Really?
The magic studied and the way they go about it, as well as their everyday lives, are very different, and there are many fictional English characters who look that way.


however, warner almost immediatly optioned sandman (never to be made) and also optioned books of magic (too be made but with alot of changes including tim's age, place of origin, and changing his glasses)

By that time they'd had Sandman under option for quite a while.


while it has never been proven, gaiman was most assuradly payed off in some way.

Proven?
Before this thread, I had no idea it had even been asked.


the fact is, rowling has never been able to explain where she got her ideas from....and she would be the only author in history that has ever occured to. ideas for books just dont come to one...they have to be gleaned from somewhere, but somehow this welfare mom thought up everything in the origiinal book as she sat on a train....preposterous.

Not really.
Bits and pieces of ideas are picked up in places, but lot's of ideas do just come to people.
I've been hit with moments of inspiration in life, and I really couldn't say why the idea occured to me one second, but not the second before that.


a much more interesting non lawsuit is the one that never took place between grant morrison and the wachowski bros over their lifting characters, concepts and entire scenes for the matrix from his far superior, the invisibles. of course, they also stole from many more people, so that would have to be a class action suit.

Which scenes in the Matrix are from the Invisibles?
I've never been able to pick it (of course, I never saw the second or third films as they looked rubbish to me).
The problem is, Morrison took a lot of his ideas for The Invisbles from plenty of other places. The Illumanti trilogy, Phillip K Dick and William Burroughs are throughout the series, as well as quite a few others.

[Ryan Day]

the second harry potter came out, I knew that at least the character was directly lifted from books of magic, as well as other concepts being lifted from sandman...and apparently gaiman did too.

I really don't see it. Yes, there are similarities, but Books of Magic has similarities to any number of pre-existing material. "Young Boy leaves his mundane life to study magic, befriend an owl, and learn about his grand destiny" - is that Harry Potter, Books of Magic, or The Sword in the Stone?

Even if Rowling got the idea from Books of Magic, there are enough differences to qualify it as an inspiration as opposed to straightforward plagiarism. And that's little different from Gaiman, who writes about any number of pre-existing ideas.

while it has never been proven, gaiman was most assuradly payed off in some way.

I doubt that he was. Partly because, as I said, I honestly don't see enough for a suit, but also because Gaiman doesn't own Books of Magic. It was work for hire and it belongs entirely to DC. I know British copyright laws are slightly different, but that might not even matter if his contract was solely with an American publisher.

a much more interesting non lawsuit is the one that never took place between grant morrison and the wachowski bros over their lifting characters, concepts and entire scenes for the matrix from his far superior, the invisibles. of course, they also stole from many more people, so that would have to be a class action suit.

Yeah, I don't get that one either. There are conceptual similarities, but Morrison's said that production staff were told to make The Matrix look like Invisibles, and I certainly can't see that - the aesthetics are almost completely opposite, aside from both having a bald guy.