Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways #3 *spoilers*

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I thought both books were pretty rocking, but HfH took the honours, no question. No problem with the quality of YA/R, I'm just unfamiliar with both teams, so having them both lumped together leaves me in a constant state of "Wait, who's that? Is that the one that does magic? Which one's the shapeshifter? Do those two normally work together, or are they strangers-" and so on. With HfH, I know what I'm dealing with - enough, anyway.

As for YA/R, geez, does it always have to be SHIELD being the evillest of the evil? I guess I should be grateful they didn't lump Maria Hill in with this set of villains-with-badges, just for once...

[Harold of the Rocks]

Young Avengers & Runaways #3
Our 'friend' Noh-Varr attacks the two teams, handling most of them with relative ease. Vision gives him some trouble and a souvenier -- in the form of his right forearm stuck (and removed by force) in Noh-Varr's chest! Noh-Varr is about to take out Victor, when Cassie kicks him five miles away. They buy some time to recover seemingly...
Our crazed warden from The Cube is monitoring all this, and he observes that his equipment shows him that three of Noh-Varr's opponents are extra-terrestrials -- meaning they have no legal status in the U.S. Our warden decides he would like to collect those souveneirs... bwa-ha ha ha!
Noh-Varr returns rather quickly, seems being kicked 5 miles is no big thing to him, he's back and is making short work of the two teams again. In the meantime, the warden had 'collected' Karolina, Hulkling, and Wiccan. They are outfitted in the latest hi-tech bondage gear. He then orders his agent in the field to be returned, so with the push of a button, a crazed out grappling hook thing collects Noh-Varr and reels him into their S.H.I.E.L.D. transport plane.
The rest of the Runaways and Young Avengers pick themselves up and discuss what happened and the SHRA. Patriot assures the Runaways that the Young Avengers are not going to go running back to 'the grown-ups' for help, that they are going after their fallen comrades. Chase states that it is time for his team to stop running away, and to start 'avenging'. Cut to The Cube, where our warden goes into a little soliloquoy about how they are invisible to the world in the cube and it is time to start playing their own little games uninterrupted... as he grabs some menacing looking 'surgical equipment' (space-age scalpel, I suppose) and approaces his three knew captives... all bound up and hanging upside down...

Lots of action in this issue. I'm a little disapointed in how unorganized and sloppy the heroes attacked Noh-Varr. Almost like they lined up and went at him one at a time. I suppose his menace and power were meant to be on display here, still it came off a bit too 'one-sided'. The art isn't terrible, but me being a Young Avenger reader (and not Runaways), I have to say I wish the penciller was a little more consistent in rendering these characters. His Hulkling (in Teddy form) doesn't resemble the same character in the previous issue all that well (same goes for Kate), and I also had to rely on the 'robotic-speak font' to distinguish Victor from Chase. The opening scene was neatly rendered, kind of putting us in Noh-Varr's mind. The way the story is presented, and the perspectives we are seeing it from are pretty well done. This book isn't on the Heinberg/Cheung level for me, but it is pretty decent, and is giving me a bit of my Young Avengers fix in the meantime.

[Harold of the Rocks]

I thought both books were pretty rocking, but HfH took the honours, no question. No problem with the quality of YA/R, I'm just unfamiliar with both teams, so having them both lumped together leaves me in a constant state of "Wait, who's that? Is that the one that does magic? Which one's the shapeshifter? Do those two normally work together, or are they strangers-" and so on. With HfH, I know what I'm dealing with - enough, anyway.

As for YA/R, geez, does it always have to be SHIELD being the evillest of the evil? I guess I should be grateful they didn't lump Maria Hill in with this set of villains-with-badges, just for once...I agree about the confusion factor. I'm familiar with Young Avengers, and I'm doing some of that. As far as the 'does it always have to be...' thing, I will say that at least in this case, it would seem that 'the warden' is going rogue himself. He did not attempt to communicate with his S.H.I.E.L.D. liason, and he had his lackey lie to Director Hill about the situation.. A mitigating factor at best, but still worth noting.

[Harold of the Rocks]

I'll have to check that, but I think it didn't count him when they were talking about how many numbered as aliens. I was assuming he was just picked up since the rest of them were picked up.It was stated that "three of Noh-Varr's first four targets...". That is a quote. Now, maybe you can blame the warden's equipment for a 'false positive', but that is what his instruments told him...

[Steven F.]

Three of four was correct....Xavin, Hulkling, and Karolina.

Billy was not an alien.

[Jack]

Billy registers as an extraterrestrial!

Billy was left with the warden, who is only allowed to keep aliens. So he reads as an alien, whether he is or not. I thought at first he meant Xavin, but Billy was strung up with the others.

[XPac]

Three of four was correct....Xavin, Hulkling, and Karolina.

Billy was not an alien.

It could be an honest mistake... there are certainly possible scenarios where Billy could get a bit of alien DNA on him.

[Steven F.]

It could be an honest mistake... there are certainly possible scenarios where Billy could get a bit of alien DNA on him.

I don't see where the mistake is....three of the four are stated as aliens. The three people with Billy ARE aliens. Why would anyone think Billy was an alien then?

Hulkling - KREE/SKRULL
Karolina - Some type of alien
Xavin - SKRULL

[Sandoz]

YA/Runaways: Personally, I thought that the characters seemed rediculously incompetant in this issue. Where is Eli's invunerability? Or Chase's knife? And since when does Nico have such a hard time with spells? (Not to mention that repeating a spell causes a backfire, not nothing.) Of course the one thing that remains consistant is that Xavin is out immediately.

"Are you an angel?" Wtf???!!
Yeah, a lot of the writing was really sloppy. Chase's full-page "After I lost Gert..." speech was totally out of character.

[gorthon616]

Right. He's not an alien, nor is there anything that might indicate that he is an alien. The dude is probably listing him as an alien though, just so he can get away with whatever he wants, but I don' think that's any indication of the truth.

Is anyone a Runaways/Young Avengers/Anihilation fan? Can someone set these things together? I'm a little unsure how these things fit consistently.

[Jmacq1]

Funny thing is....wasn't Karolina born in the US? Even if she's of alien parentage, by US law, that'd make her a US citizen. Not that SHIELD would have any way of knowing that. Even so, I doubt they'd bother to check, just adding another black mark in the "yes Virginia, we -are- evil and corrupt" column.

Or maybe she was born before her parents got to Earth (but I didn't think that was the case). Also not sure of the actual location of Teddy's birth, either. Young Avengers readers enlighten me? Clearly he was on Earth at a very young age, at the very least.

[MerrickM]

Aliens nothing, I think the Warden just captured around half the homosexual population of Marvel Comics.

[gorthon616]

Yes. I'm actually picking up the Runaways/Young Avengers spiel. More because I'm intrigued by the characters than anything. And Marvel Boy is back! Woot. Woot.

Billy registers as an extraterrestrial!

I'll have to check that, but I think it didn't count him when they were talking about how many numbered as aliens. I was assuming he was just picked up since the rest of them were picked up.

Funny thing is....wasn't Karolina born in the US? Even if she's of alien parentage, by US law, that'd make her a US citizen. Not that SHIELD would have any way of knowing that. Even so, I doubt they'd bother to check, just adding another black mark in the "yes Virginia, we -are- evil and corrupt" column.

Or maybe she was born before her parents got to Earth (but I didn't think that was the case). Also not sure of the actual location of Teddy's birth, either. Young Avengers readers enlighten me? Clearly he was on Earth at a very young age, at the very least.

Well it's *possible* that that might grant her citizenship, but I think it's somewhat unlikely that even if she was born here it would grant her citizenship. However, if she has powerful relatives back home (I forget if she does, isn't she like a princess or something?) she could get amnesty.

HMM.... I wonder if this would cause some inter-galactic conflict against the U.S. Of course, with Anihilation they probably aren't in any condition to start up something. (Yes, that's an unabashed Anihilation plug. READ IT.)

[Jmacq1]

Well, as far as US Law goes, I know any person born on U.S. Soil, or whose parents are U.S. Citizens, is considered a U.S. Citizen. I don't know that the law makes exceptions for those of extraterrestrial origin or not. ;)

I'd imagine if she's got a legit Birth Certificate and all that (which seems possible, as it doesn't appear that Karolina or her parents were outwardly distinguishable from humans), she'd be a legit U.S. Citizen regardless of her race. But who knows how Marvel Law works in that regard?

[gorthon616]

Well, as far as US Law goes, I know any person born on U.S. Soil, or whose parents are U.S. Citizens, is considered a U.S. Citizen. I don't know that the law makes exceptions for those of extraterrestrial origin or not. ;)

Yeah, I know, but I was considering the non-human-being aspect of it. :D

I'd imagine if she's got a legit Birth Certificate and all that (which seems possible, as it doesn't appear that Karolina or her parents were outwardly distinguishable from humans), she'd be a legit U.S. Citizen regardless of her race. But who knows how Marvel Law works in that regard?

She-Hulk?

[Harold of the Rocks]

I don't see where the mistake is....three of the four are stated as aliens. The three people with Billy ARE aliens. Why would anyone think Billy was an alien then?

Hulkling - KREE/SKRULL
Karolina - Some type of alien
Xavin - SKRULLI'm not sure about this, see in issue #2 we see that the warden knows that one of the Runaways is Skrull. He knew ahead of time about this, and Xavin is dead at the time he makes this statement -- and the verb tense he uses is "are" (as in still alive). The first five characters Noh-Varr had engaged with, the first being the 'known' Skrull, Xavin:

Xavin - Skrull, dead.
Karolina - Alien, alive.
Hulkling - Skrull, alive.
Wiccan - ????, alive.
Vision - Synthezoid, 'alive'.

Combine this with whom the warden 'kept', and I think it is reasonable to assume that he was not counting Xavin when he made the "3 of 4" statement. I'm not saying that the warden is correct about Billy, just sayin' he thinks (based on his 'readings') that he is alien. Also consider that if he captures someone that he is not 'entitled to', he's taking a huge risk by kidnapping them. I don't think he can simply say "I thought X was an alien, so I captured them." . I would think he would have to have the evidence of his equipment readings as proof that he has claim to any detainees as being alien (and therefore "having no legal standing"). Otherwise he faces the wrath of Maria Hill -- and that is something no one wants. Okay, secretly I do... but that is another topic...

As far as citizenship rights go, while not stated expressly in the Constitution, etc. to my knowledge, I don't think citizenship rights extend to any other species besides Homo Sapiens. If we thawed out a Cro-Magnon found in Alaska, would he be entitiled to citizenship? Certainly it could be argued that he is a "man" or "human" (probably the closest thing the Constitution comes to stating whom is entitled to its rights and protections. I don't think "human-like" aliens born on U.S. soil would be granted citizenship. Sounds like a question for She-Hulk... ;)

[Young Avenger]

Or maybe she was born before her parents got to Earth (but I didn't think that was the case). Also not sure of the actual location of Teddy's birth, either. Young Avengers readers enlighten me? Clearly he was on Earth at a very young age, at the very least.

Teddy was born during the Kree/Skrull War. I have little knowledge of the event so I don't know if it occured on Earth.

[Young Avenger]

I'm not sure about this, see in issue #2 we see that the warden knows that one of the Runaways is Skrull. He knew ahead of time about this, and Xavin is dead at the time he makes this statement -- and the verb tense he uses is "are" (as in still alive). The first five characters Noh-Varr had engaged with, the first being the 'known' Skrull, Xavin:

Xavin - Skrull, dead.
Karolina - Alien, alive.
Hulkling - Skrull, alive.
Wiccan - ????, alive.
Vision - Synthezoid, 'alive'.


Vision said that Xavin is mortally wounded. I don't think he's dead yet.

[Sandoz]

Vision said that Xavin is mortally wounded. I don't think he's dead yet.
I agree. Xavin went from being "dead" to "mortally wounded" to just "captured." Skrulls are notoriously hard to kill anyway, and since the last few panels made it clear that s/he wasn't being tied up like the rest, I'm guessing that Xavin will wake up in time to prevent the obligatory mad scientist from cutting up Karolina and the others.

[Xanrn]

Yeah I think even Skrulls can grow back from a Good Wolverining and a Good KABOOM from Speed, that very clever Xavin can survive a neck break.

[Blackcat]

I think this styory happens before CW#4 because we still see Stature with the team.

I really wonder it both teams will stay the way they are after Civil War I think it might be hard on Stature to stay, now she betrayed het friends in CW#4.

Also Marvel might combine the best characters of both books into one. Hope not!

[Ryan K]

This issue hit bottom as soon as Chase's speech ended with the 'time for avenging' quote. Ugh.

[DoctorDoom]

It could be an honest mistake... there are certainly possible scenarios where Billy could get a bit of alien DNA on him.
I just got that.ewwwww

[Hi-Fi]

This was an awful issue. All the characters were off. Ugh indeed.

[PretenderNX01]

I just got that.ewwwww
I guess I have a dirty mind cause I laughed out loud when I saw that post.

Overall, I'd have to agree with HiFi the characterization seemed a bit off (more than usual) and a whole lot of nothing happened. 32 pages and all that happened was a few got captured. Nothing else. Seemed like filler, or trying to stretch out the story.

[XPac]

I just got that.ewwwww

Cool ... I wasn't sure if anyone got the joke or not. And lord knows I didn't want to explain it.

[gorthon616]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Indigo"]I'm not sure about this, see in issue #2 we see that the warden knows that one of the Runaways is Skrull. He knew ahead of time about this, and Xavin is dead at the time he makes this statement -- and the verb tense he uses is "are" (as in still alive).

I don't think you should analyze it so thoroughly. And anyways an alien is still an alien even if it is dead, i.e. Xavin is a dead alien. Though I that could be a potential meaning behind the statement, I find it dubious.

I'm not an avid Runaways (I've read a bit, but not a great deal) reader or Young Avengers reader. For those who have gripes with the characterization, can you articulate some more? I'll admit it seemed a bit more loose and slapstick than I would imagine, but not totally off-base from what I know.

[sephirothskiller]

To me the characterization wasn't so much loose as it was WAY taken to the extreme. Little aspects of people were born out of proportion. Does Nico sometimes forget which spell she's used before? Yes. But that does not mean she is a dunce in battle, far from it. (Not to mention if she cast's a spell twice it doesn't fizzle it just gives a random reaction.)

Is Speed a character that can be a bit self-centred? Yes, but is he about to just run off for ages and then not even be the least clued in when he gets back? Probably not. In fact the whole thing there reaked of a convienient plot point.

And Chase would never say "Its time to do some avenging." Thats not Chase. Thats way OOC. Chase also wouldn't have just sat there trying to get Old Lace to do something, he would have charged that b**ch with his switchblade. Or something.

I am wondering about the Cassie ish though.

[The New Fate]

Anyone else feel that YA/Runn. Civil War has really gotten no where?