Jla #2 <spoiler Warning>

[Dr.Geekibus]

Well, another interesting issue. Lots of forward progression without giving too much away. A couple of observations...


Red Tornado...shaking hands...Tornado spirit rejecting the human body?

What does the Tantu Totem have to do with Reddy's android body?

Interaction between the Big 3. Did that seem a bit forced to anyone else?


Thought the art was good and for the most part I enjoyed the writing. Don't want to spoil too much so i'll leave it at that? Anyone else read it?


edit: And I totally forgot to mention the Booster Gold comment. <spoiler text on>

Superman talks about giving Booster's suit to someone? Guess that pretty much means that Booster did not come back from his explosive finish in 52. Leastways, not as Booster Gold. Did anyone else read it differently?

Doc

[Frankie Dennis]

I felt that it was kind of a slow issue, but it will probably take a few issues to really pick up.

[Cayman]

I'm disappointed in the pacing. It wasn't awful by any means, but it felt like a step down in quality from the first issue. With only 12 issues to work with, I'd hope Meltzer would be trying to pack a bit more story in.

[Dr.Geekibus]

Slow? I don't know. I thought there were lots of little things revealed without giving us the whole picture. I can see what you're saying though. I'm sure once it goes full throttle it'll be a heck of a ride. :evilsmile

[Armless Penguin]

I'm actually really liking the pacing and character focus of this title. It's honestly kind of refreshing.

Of course, I may just be a tad biased with the attention ol' Reddy is getting, :p

[Cayman]

It's nice that they are fleshing Red Tornado out a bit, but the other stories are moving slowly. Black Lightning's doing the same thing as last issue, Vixen's still in the bar, the Big 3 are still looking at photographs and bickering. Plus, I didn't need to know that having sex as a human makes Red Tornado sore.

[protege]

I was a little surprised at Bruce's comment about beetle and booster, as well as Clark having a problem with ollie- what's up with that? And why can't Dr. light be a member?

[Armless Penguin]

I was a little surprised at Bruce's comment about beetle and booster, as well as Clark having a problem with ollie- what's up with that?

I just like the fact that Clark wanted Connor. :-/

[Count Vertigo]

What does the Tantu Totem have to do with Reddy's android body?

The only thing I can come up with at the moment is maybe there are some elements from the Tornado Champion which may have been mystical? (I vaguely remember how he got into Red's body).

[Dr.Geekibus]

The Clark/Ollie thing, unless I'm mistaken, comes from when Ollie went rogue with Eddie Fyres and ended up on a plane with a bomb on it. Ollie had a change of heart about killing anyone, but he refused to let Superman save him so he died. That's how he croaked before he came back in Kevin Smith's run on the title.


Reddy being sore after sex? Man, why am I flashing on the movie "Me, Myself and Irene" right about now?

I still think the pacing is going okay and we are getting answers, slowly but surely.

[Dr.Geekibus]

The only thing I can come up with at the moment is maybe there are some elements from the Tornado Champion which may have been mystical? (I vaguely remember how he got into Red's body).


Good thought Count. I guess we'll find out.

[mrc1214]

The pacing is alright i hope the team is formed in the next couple of issues. And i hope we get the fight with all the Tornados next issue.

[Deadpooligan]

It is moving rather slowly. The selection process by the Big Three doesn't disappoint.

I can't believe Wonder Woman and Supes would consider backdooring Batman like that. It's not his fault he's paranoid from being mindwiped.

I love the Hal Jordan and Roy banter about his comparison to Ollie in his prime. The target joke was just great. "You moved it!"

Onto the negatives:
Red Tornado's monologues sound like sappy crap from a Disney movie. "I'm feeling for the first time!" "Ooh, new sensations!" "Is that what being happy really is?" *barf* We'll see how happy it is when you die for like the jillionth time, FOR REAL.

Vixen's overconfidence and utter uselessness pisses me off too. This book needs Animal Man. Badly. She wouldn't really bring anything to the team; it's no wonder she was in Detroit.

All in all, a issue worth it for the Big Three, Black Canary, GL, and Arsenal. Everyone else... eh, not so much.

[Deus ex Chris]

After loving the first issue, I find myself utterly disappointed and unimpressed by #2. As was mentioned, the "big three" scenes were incredibly forced, especially Superman's little "sneak" attack. Coming from Wonder Woman, I would have bought it, but Superman?

Also, I'm bored with the Red Tornado stuff. The first story of the relaunched title is being built around him, and quite frankly, he's been a "who the hell cares?" character for decades, and that really hasn't changed--at least, not with me. It's a lame plot, and it's really killing my enjoyment. It's just reading like fanfic.

Anyway, I really enjoyed Identity Crisis, so I'm not going to condemn Meltzer for this single issue, and even though I'm going to have sit through an arc of him gushing over Red Tornado, I'm willing to do so, in hopes that the second half of his run won't be centered on the android.

[Steve Brady]

Was "Ted" a misprint? Was Batman being a dick? B) Am I missing something?

[lucifernomi]

(my two cents)

Red Tornado's story is neat, and nicely reminding me that he still exists, but still sappy and overwritten.

I'm liking the idea of Arsenal on the team more and more (even though I wanted Connor), but it seems like they voted in Ollie, which is confusing.

I hate that I can't really figure out what the villians are up to. Not too much time has been spent on that part of the story and then the last page just turns to bedlam.

Oh, and Nightwing refusing just reminds me of how much I hate what they've done to his character in his solo book.

[Dr.Geekibus]

Was "Ted" a misprint? Was Batman being a dick? B) Am I missing something?

Supposedly this new post crisis DC's Batman is less dick-ish but I'd say he was being a jerk in that scene. I think instead of paranoid a-hole, Bats is supposed to be just kind of harsh and insensitive. I wonder if they'll also dial back his nigh-omnipotent knowledgebase and his ability to figure out how to beat anyone. In other words, bring him back to being the master detective, but not also master strategist, planner, all around know-it-all. ;-)

I still say this hasn't been a bad second issue. The setup has been decent, I've enjoyed the back and forth between the big 3 and I loved the fact that Nightwing said no and that Batman asked him before even consulting with the others. I think a good Elseworlds book would be to use that point in time except Nightwing said Yes but WW and Supes said no, causing a big fracture. Maybe even leading to two leagues...Batman's grim and gritty league and Superman's boy scout league.

Now we know issue number three is going to have some action in it and hopefully Vixen and Black Lightning will do something different. Let's hope anyway. And keep the big 3 out of it. I actually think it would be pretty interesting if the league just sort of formed itself while the big 3 were bickering and they had to accept a fait accompli.

[Tony Starkz]

I like Meltzer's style and pacing.Focusing on the characters has been a huge plus for me.Very character driven and I love it.I'm glad he didn't go the easy route and do the familiar team get together to save the world from a threat.

Lots of developments in this issue,which kept the story going.

[ultramandingo]

yea , "the big three" have been voting for 2 issues , hopfull they'll be done be for this arc is over

[Deus ex Chris]

yea , "the big three" have been voting for 2 issues , hopfull they'll be done be for this arc is over
My guess is that they'll take a few more issues to vote, and when they're finally done, they'll get a call for help from the League that's already forming (Black Canary, Green Lantern, Arsenal, and Red Tornado along with Black Lightning and Vixen--whose plot-lines tie into Reddy's), making all the voting pointless.

[Cayman]

My guess is that they'll take a few more issues to vote, and when they're finally done, they'll get a call for help from the League that's already forming (Black Canary, Green Lantern, Arsenal, and Red Tornado along with Black Lightning and Vixen--whose plot-lines tie into Reddy's), making all the voting pointless.

they should still be flipping through photographs when Meltzer's run concludes, meanwhile the other guys have saved the world 3 times while Bruce, Diana, and Clark are pondering Mind-Grabber Lad.

[Deus ex Chris]

they should still be flipping through photographs when Meltzer's run concludes, meanwhile the other guys have saved the world 3 times while Bruce, Diana, and Clark are pondering Mind-Grabber Lad.
Pondering and stabbing each other in the back, when one gets up for a restroom break.

[ultramandingo]

they should still be flipping through photographs when Meltzer's run concludes, meanwhile the other guys have saved the world 3 times while Bruce, Diana, and Clark are pondering Mind-Grabber Lad.


could be worse ......batman could be drivin supes and diana around in the batmobile for 6 or 7 issues , runin over cops and stuff

[Cayman]

Pondering and stabbing each other in the back, when one gets up for a restroom break.

Like a Survivor season finale!

[StrikeForce Albert]

they should still be flipping through photographs when Meltzer's run concludes, meanwhile the other guys have saved the world 3 times while Bruce, Diana, and Clark are pondering Mind-Grabber Lad.

Sounds like New Avengers

only this title doesn't suck

[Deus ex Chris]

could be worse ......batman could be drivin supes and diana around in the batmobile for 6 or 7 issues , runin over cops and stuff
That made me smile. Thanks!
Like a Survivor season finale!
The last time Diana and Clark faced-off, she owned him with a couple of birds, bracelets, and a tiara to the throat. Then she snapped a neck. The other characters better clear-out.

[LordAllMighty]

Vixen's overconfidence and utter uselessness pisses me off too. This book needs Animal Man. Badly. She wouldn't really bring anything to the team; it's no wonder she was in Detroit.

What exactly can Animal Man do that Vixen can't?:confused:

Add in the fact that unlike Buddy, Vixen is a trained fighter.

I'll give this issue an 8 out of 10. I don't mind Meltzer slowly building a team but I hope this doesn't take his entire 12 issues to do so.

Also, anybody else notice how Vixen's Tantu totem just magically appeared around her waist this issue and that her powers where still present when the totem was taken?

[skally19]

i'm pretty sure this voting is gonna be all for naught when they have to go help the others and lightning and vixen show up too cause their crap got stolen. this issue was too slow. and i'm hardcore in meltzer. LET'S SEE SOME ACTION BABY. next one i'm sure

[protege]

The Clark/Ollie thing, unless I'm mistaken, comes from when Ollie went rogue with Eddie Fyres and ended up on a plane with a bomb on it. Ollie had a change of heart about killing anyone, but he refused to let Superman save him so he died. That's how he croaked before he came back in Kevin Smith's run on the title.


Reddy being sore after sex? Man, why am I flashing on the movie "Me, Myself and Irene" right about now?

I still think the pacing is going okay and we are getting answers, slowly but surely.
Well, they need to deal with that, don't you think?

[malephoenix]

Red Tornado's story is neat, and nicely reminding me that he still exists, but still sappy and overwritten.


Why are people being so hard on the "mushy" aspects of Red's tale? (How DARE they spend time on character development!)

I mean, seriously: instead of being upset because he's not grunting al a Home Improvement and burping & scratching himself like Homer and Al Bundi, think about *why* it's like this for him. He's been a robot for forever and now all of the sudden he gets to be *human* and can be a "real" husband and father. Of COURSE it's sappy! He LOVES his family! It's not overwritten in that direction at all.






Oh, and yeah - why does the totem matter if Vixen doesn't need it to change?

[lucifernomi]

Why are people being so hard on the "mushy" aspects of Red's tale? (How DARE they spend time on character development!)

I mean, seriously: instead of being upset because he's not grunting al a Home Improvement and burping & scratching himself like Homer and Al Bundi, think about *why* it's like this for him.



Please, I'm all for character development, but this IS sappy. Total Disney-esque "Icantwaittobearealboy" stuff. Good in small doses, but its been two issues and that's all we've seen of the guy. I mean, we get it already.

[LordAllMighty]

Oh, and yeah - why does the totem matter if Vixen doesn't need it to change?

Good question.:D

[Deadpooligan]

What exactly can Animal Man do that Vixen can't?:confused:

Add in the fact that unlike Buddy, Vixen is a trained fighter.

I'll give this issue an 8 out of 10. I don't mind Meltzer slowly building a team but I hope this doesn't take his entire 12 issues to do so.

Also, anybody else notice how Vixen's Tantu totem just magically appeared around her waist this issue and that her powers where still present when the totem was taken?

What, trained to fight like an animal? That comes with the freakin powerset.

[TinMan]

I'm enjoying this book, I like Meltzer's writing style and Benes has already popped into my top ten favorite artists list.

I really don't know anything about Red Tornado, Vixen, Arsenal, Black Lightning, Black Canary or Hawk Girl, so I'm kinda starting from scratch with them, but this story has been enjoyable so far. I really like the way RT is responding to his new body though, you've gotta think that he's never experienced it before so all of that inner monologue is justified.

All in all, this is a great book and I'm loving it.

[PastePotPete]

It's nice that they are fleshing Red Tornado out a bit, but the other stories are moving slowly. Black Lightning's doing the same thing as last issue, Vixen's still in the bar, the Big 3 are still looking at photographs and bickering. Plus, I didn't need to know that having sex as a human makes Red Tornado sore.

I don't really agree with you here. Black Lightning solved his mystery, Vixen had a pretty fun fight with the, ahem, "Bomb Squad." (stupid name) and you KNEW the Big 3 were going to keep going with the selection process, which I'm positive is about to end because Batman just got interrupted by a distress call.

All in all, I think a lot happened in this issue. I realize everyone's worried about decompression, but let's be patient for an issue or two more, eh? If he'd just thrown everybody together people would be going "It happened too fast! Why is Vixen teaming up with Superman? This isn't developed enough!"

Just because characters change locations doesn't mean you're getting more/better story.

[PastePotPete]

they should still be flipping through photographs when Meltzer's run concludes, meanwhile the other guys have saved the world 3 times while Bruce, Diana, and Clark are pondering Mind-Grabber Lad.

:D

I will say that the one thing that didn't work for me in this ish was Supes and Wonderwoman waiting until Batman got up from the table to pull out his picture. "Shhhh! Quiet! Let's vote on him quick while he's busy making sandwiches!"

They should have waited until Batman pulled out his own picture...

BATMAN: What about me? I'm in, right? World's greatest detective, good fighter, good strategist.

WONDERWOMAN: I don't know. Didn't this guy almost destroy the world with an evil spy satellite?

SUPERMAN: We've had to kick this guy off the league before. Remember the Tower of Babel?

BATMAN: Uh, Guys? I'm standing right here.

SUPERMAN: I just don't know if Batman is ready to work with a team...

BATMAN: I'm fantastically wealthy, if that makes a difference.

WONDERWOMAN: I don't know. Let's just vote.

BATMAN: I vote Yes.

WONDERWOMAN: Nope.

SUPERMAN: Geez! Hmmm. Let me think. Uhhhhhhhh. Hmmmmmmm...

BATMAN: Oh COME ON!

[Matt Algren]

They should have waited until Batman pulled out his own picture...

BATMAN: What about me? I'm in, right? World's greatest detective, good fighter, good strategist.

WONDERWOMAN: I don't know. Didn't this guy almost destroy the world with an evil spy satellite?

SUPERMAN: We've had to kick this guy off the league before. Remember the Tower of Babel?

BATMAN: Uh, Guys? I'm standing right here.

SUPERMAN: I just don't know if Batman is ready to work with a team...

BATMAN: I'm fantastically wealthy, if that makes a difference.

WONDERWOMAN: I don't know. Let's just vote.

BATMAN: I vote Yes.

WONDERWOMAN: Nope.

SUPERMAN: Geez! Hmmm. Let me think. Uhhhhhhhh. Hmmmmmmm...

BATMAN: Oh COME ON!
Now THAT I would pay for. Hilarious.

[Corey Dalton]

Well, I'm out. After three issues (counting the zero issue) of Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman sitting around a table calling each other by their first names and gossiping about their fellow superheroes like little girls at a slumber party, I just can't take it any more. And the internal monologues! When you have so many constantly running internal monologues that you actually need to tag each one with a different color just so readers can keep each character's monologue straight, you might have gone a little overboard. I dropped Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman after one issue (the Free Comic Book Day issue, actually) because of the poorly written internal monologes of those two characters. This comic has that problem times six!

Maybe if the other heroes were up to something interesting, I could put up with the boring bits, but so far their storylines are equally as unengaging to me. Black Lightning is investigating gay supervillains because he used to be part of President Luthor's regime. Uh, what? Vixen is getting attacked in a bar for a really long time and then having the source of her powers stolen, although she still appears to have her powers. Huh? And then we have Red Tornado who has become human with all the X-treme pathos and overwriting of the very worst Data episode of Star Trek and then proceeds to get it on with some pathetically desperate woman who needs his sex so bad that she has made him "sore." Ick. Just not my cup of tea.

I've gotta say that as much as I'm not digging this, I'm still disappointed. I've always like the concept of the JLA and Grant Morrison's last relaunch of the title was a good time. It's true that I am no Meltzer fan, but I was really hoping despite that fact that I would enjoy this title. No such luck.

Guess I'll try a different title. I've been meaning to give Manhunter a read! And the upcoming storyline with Wonder Woman may be a good jumping on point.

Corey

[TheTen-EyedMan]

This comic reminds me of that old Del Amitri song "Nothing Ever Happens"

I miss the days when comics had a beginning, a middle and an end.

I'm just glad I don't have to pay for this drawn out rubbish.

I remember the story that ran through the Avengers and Defenders called ironically "the avengers-defenders war". That ran through 6 issues (irc) and there was a hell of a lot of action and character development. And there was even action that happened off panel that Steve Englehart intimated we (the reader) should use our...and stirke me down for saying such an obsenity...IMAGINATIONS to make up what happened in a fight between Hulk and Silver Surfer we didn't see.

[Slumber Hulk]

Ok I got briefly excited when both Clark and Diana wanted Nightwing! It was cool to see him get some cred. But why would he refuse? It makes no sense!

I also liked Bats approaching him before he talked to the other two. It was also interesting to see Clark and Diana vote on Bats... although we didn't get to see how the vote turned out.

[Cayman]

Ok I got briefly excited when both Clark and Diana wanted Nightwing! It was cool to see him get some cred. But why would he refuse? It makes no sense!

I also liked Bats approaching him before he talked to the other two. It was also interesting to see Clark and Diana vote on Bats... although we didn't get to see how the vote turned out.

Maybe because his role in the Outsiders is so different from the JLA.

[LordAllMighty]

What, trained to fight like an animal? That comes with the freakin powerset.

Uh...no, Vixen is a trianed fighter. IIRC, Bronze Tiger (her ex-boyfriend) was the one who trained her.

[Sean Walsh]

A little disappointed that Dr. Impossible, right now at least, seems like a cog in the big evil Ivo machine. Figured he would be the big bad of this story, but maybe not. Still, after talking to Brad Meltzer last week at a book signing, I still have faith he plays a bigger role.

But so far, me likey the story veddy much. :)

Oh, and....

What exactly can Animal Man do that Vixen can't?:confused:

Pee standing up?

(Yes..........I went there.)

[titanfan]

Also, anybody else notice how Vixen's Tantu totem just magically appeared around her waist this issue and that her powers where still present when the totem was taken?

Yeah. The totem Plastique took had to have been a fake. (Either that or she no longer needs it because she learned how to internalize her power)

Unless they're trying to show how Vixen is a rank amateur and unworthy of League membership--they wouldn't have had her outsmarted by Plastique and Executioner so easily. Of course she keeps her Tantu Totem closer to her and not somewhere it can just be grabbed off of her by any ol' villain.

I'm confused about:

- What message would the JLA be sending if they let Dr. Light into the League? "We'll still take you if you name yourself after a villain?"

- Why would Batman say: "If you want to honor Ted?" I want to believe that it wasn't a horrible writing/editorial snafu and it has a deeper meaning that we don't realize yet. (As I find it difficult to believe that anyone who read and claimed to be a "fan" of the JLI era would get Michael and Ted's names confused...)

[Sean Walsh]

- What message would the JLA be sending if they let Dr. Light into the League? "We'll still take you if you name yourself after a villain?"

- Why would Batman say: "If you want to honor Ted?" I want to believe that it wasn't a horrible writing/editorial snafu and it has a deeper meaning that we don't realize yet. (As I find it difficult to believe that anyone who read and claimed to be a "fan" of the JLI era would get Michael and Ted's names confused...)

Do note that 52 ain't over yet, and all may yet be revealed as to why Batman's saying these things.

Batman's still bitter about Hal, so I could see him still being bitter about what Booster did in 52 (and perhaps things yet to happen that we readers don't know about just yet)

As for Dr. Light.........the same could go for that, but I agree that comment sounds a bit lamer.

[jadegiant77]

I can't believe Wonder Woman and Supes would consider backdooring Batman like that.

Um...OMFG, i don't remember that scene...:p

EDIT: When's the team gonna actually get together? Sometime before issue # 8, right? Vixen's powers should be within her by now so she won't have to rely on that stupid totem.

[DMike]

What exactly can Animal Man do that Vixen can't?

Pee standing up?

(Yes..........I went there.)

I'm sure she could just shout "Dog" and lift a leg or something. :)

[titanfan]

If anything, I always thought Animal Man was more limited in the sense that he can only take stuff from animals near him.

[skally19]

but as we saw in 52 last week, he can take powers from parasites and aliens too. like how he took the power to jump all weird and spit blue fireballs. let's see vixen do THAT

[Deadpooligan]

Uh...no, Vixen is a trianed fighter. IIRC, Bronze Tiger (her ex-boyfriend) was the one who trained her.

I don't see how that helps her when she goes all bestial. That's like saying it's vital that Superman has H2H combat even though he can knock the heads off people with a flick of the wrist.

Vixen's first appearance is in Cancelled Comics Cavalcade for god's sake. How lame is that? *Coughextremelycough* *ahem* Sorry, bad cough. Extremely lame, wot wot.

If anything, I always thought Animal Man was more limited in the sense that he can only take stuff from animals near him.

It's not about Animal Man's powers per se. Animal Man is the most atypical hero ever, as he's just a normal family man with super powers. He brings a lot more personality to the table than most other characters. *CoughSupermanCough*

The lot of you guys questioning the awesomeness of Animal Man need to read the first 26 issues of his solo series. *CoughMorrisonCough*

I think he dies in 52 though, which sucks majorly. Morrison hinted at it in the latest Wizard.

[Dr.Geekibus]

If anything, I always thought Animal Man was more limited in the sense that he can only take stuff from animals near him.

Actually, that stuff in space went against the continuity of the comic. After a while in his own title he didn't have to be near a critter to copy its power. Because he was supposedly tied in to the "morphogenetic field". So his power still should have worked even in space since the field should extend everywhere. Perhaps he got depowered somewhere along the way.

I always felt he was pretty much a match for Vixen. As a matter of fact in his title the two of them came to the same conclusion and either did or almost knocked boots.

[LordAllMighty]

but as we saw in 52 last week, he can take powers from parasites and aliens too. like how he took the power to jump all weird and spit blue fireballs. let's see vixen do THAT

All that is pointless when you can make a universe with stars, planets and newly created life forms that you imagine.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3766/makingauniverselm6.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=makingauniverselm6.jpg)

Take note that Vixen is standing right next to Buddy during this power display.:D

[Deadpooligan]

All that is pointless when you can make a universe with stars, planets and newly created life forms that you imagine.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3766/makingauniverselm6.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=makingauniverselm6.jpg)

Take note that Vixen is standing right next to Buddy during this power display.:D

You do realize the three of them are collaborating?

[Optimus]

Why exactly are Hal and Dinah testing Arsenal? That point is confusing me. Originally when they grabbed him I assumed it was part of forming the league, but it seems like that is unrelated to what Clark, Bruce and Dianah are doing.

And are the 11 guys on the cover of this issue the roster we're going to have? In addition to being a little too large and unwieldly, it really seems to eliminate the point of carrying on with the big 3's debate about who to invite.

I'm not thrilled about Red Tornado. DC's Vision is just a bland and boring character. Nightwing on the team would have been cool, I would like to know why he doesn't want in.

[LordAllMighty]

I don't see how that helps her when she goes all bestial. That's like saying it's vital that Superman has H2H combat even though he can knock the heads off people with a flick of the wrist.

You do realize that Superman is not the only super-strong and near invulnerable character in DC. IMHO, If Superman for example runs upon somebody who has similar powers (on his level) but is also consider a trained fighters then he going to have a hard time defeating them. (See his fight with WW and Black Adam)

Vixen's first appearance is in Cancelled Comics Cavalcade for god's sake. How lame is that? *Coughextremelycough* *ahem* Sorry, bad cough. Extremely lame, wot wot.

Actually her first appearance was in Action Comics 521.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vixenfirstapp.png

She actually had her own comic ready to go but it didn’t get published because of the big DC Implosion. Look it up it’s an interesting read.

It's not about Animal Man's powers per se. Animal Man is the most atypical hero ever, as he's just a normal family man with super powers. He brings a lot more personality to the table than most other characters. *CoughSupermanCough*

I like Animal Man but nothing you said makes me want to see him in the JLA.

The lot of you guys questioning the awesomeness of Animal Man need to read the first 26 issues of his solo series. *CoughMorrisonCough*

I have it.:)

You do realize the three of them are collaborating?

And...?

They each made 1/3 of universe

[Deus ex Chris]

You do realize the three of them are collaborating?
I think that was actually the point.

[Deadpooligan]

Actually her first appearance was in Action Comics 521.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vixenfirstapp.png

Well, that's her "official" one. She got cancelled before she even got created. Though, that said, it's surprising she's not fallen into obscurity.

I like Animal Man but nothing you said makes me want to see him in the JLA.

I think he brings the moral side to a team that needs it. Above all teh others, he'd know what the people want and need to see in a hero. That and he's a great foil for Batman. Animal Man is not just a square jawed hero like the rest of them. He's different, and the underdog we can all relate to.

I have it.:)

It's a great read isn't it? Man, I need to find it in trade so I don't wear 'em down.

And...? They each made 1/3 of universe

That showing doesn't put her above Buddy's level, if anything just on par. (Also, is that before or after Buddy met Morrison?)

[Alan2099]

Another plus for Animal man is that he actually knows he's in a comicbook.

[LordAllMighty]

That showing doesn't put her above Buddy's level, if anything just on par. (Also, is that before or after Buddy met Morrison?)

It's issue 50 and Morrison stopped writing Animal Man at 26.

Also Vixen is still a better fighter.:evilsmile (Joking)

[rajah1]

Why exactly are Hal and Dinah testing Arsenal? That point is confusing me. Originally when they grabbed him I assumed it was part of forming the league, but it seems like that is unrelated to what Clark, Bruce and Dianah are doing.

I think Hal was just being a smartass, which was why Dinah protested him testing Roy out like that.


And are the 11 guys on the cover of this issue the roster we're going to have? In addition to being a little too large and unwieldly, it really seems to eliminate the point of carrying on with the big 3's debate about who to invite.

I heard the roster would change later on...not sure if that meant that the ones the big 3 pick won't get in or whether it means the ones on the cover are only temperary and the actual roster won't be settled untill later (I'm not taking a real lot of notice of the cover..so far the JLofA covers have been full of misleading red herrings, and this lineup could just be another one). The big three don't actually meet up with Hal/Dinah and Roy untill issue 5, which would indicate to me that the team won't form untill after that issue at the earliest..that sucks because Brads only writing 13 issues so if the team doesn't form untill issue 6 or 7 he's only really writing the actual line up for 6 or so issues.

I'm not thrilled about Red Tornado. DC's Vision is just a bland and boring character. Nightwing on the team would have been cool, I would like to know why he doesn't want in.

I'm hopeing Reddy will grow on me..and as for Nightwing I beleive all will be revealed further down the track, maybe not in JLA but in Nightwing for sure, Brads just not letting any secrets out thats all.


I enjoyed the issue, but am a little nervous about the paceing as well. As for Roy I'm missing the tattoo..the sole patch dissappeared between #1 and 2..but I can live with that, but I really, really miss those cool boots he used to wear.

[wolp]

I'm trying to get into DC with this title but the pace is killing me :( I enjoyed the 1st issue but this issue was killing me with all the inner dialogue. Email meltzer and get some action pronto por favor!

[rajah1]

I'm trying to get into DC with this title but the pace is killing me :( I enjoyed the 1st issue but this issue was killing me with all the inner dialogue. Email meltzer and get some action pronto por favor!


Emailing him won't help, he's already turned in all the scripts for the next 12 months and he's still tripping around the country side doing book signings at the moment..we seem to be stuck with things for now, I'm just crossing my fingers that things start to move in the next issue.

[jaguarshark]

I was a fan of the first issue and the '0' issue, but I can't defend this one. This was a pretty dull issue, but hopefully it's just a minor misstep as part of a much more interesting bigger picture. There was some interesting stuff in here, but Vixen is kinda annoying, the Big Three sitting around a table is getting painful, especially with the difficult-to-follow narration, Red Tornado's story moved beyond 'good sappy' to 'sickly sappy' and, yeah, the sneak attack on Batman was kinda low-class. It was hardly without merit, though.

Has anyone come up for a reason yet as to why Booster was referred to as Ted? Am I just reading that wrong? If it's an actual mistake that isn't explained later, and they should have said 'Michael', then that pisses me off more than it probably should.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I enjoyed the first two issues, but this issue felt like Meltzer moving pieces around the chess board for the next issue's inevitable big brawl with the army of Red Tornado robots. Rather than giving the readers something new, he just reinterated what we already knew from the first issue:

-Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are still voting. The only new development is that they're going to vote on whether Batman should stay, which isn't remotely suspensful because it's obvious that Batman will stay. He's the goddamned Batman fer pete's sake.

-Hal is still giving Roy a hard time, the only difference here is that Dinah's around to point it out instead of Roy. This is fun and all, but Dinah's relationship with Roy is still pretty undercooked.

-Black Lightning just repeated the same thing he did last issue, but with a gay villain this time instead of a drug addict villain.

-Vixen had a brief fight that made her look like an amateur, but perhaps this is a ruse on her part. Surely she's a little more careful about holding onto the source of her power than this.

-Red Tornado's storyline moved forward a bit, but in the most predictable manner possible. They kinda had to put this scene in there, but I wish they'd done so in a more interesting way.

-The art is pretty, but it doesn't feel like Benes is really stretching himself at all. I think he has the potential to be a great superhero artist, but he's relying on the same shtick he always has. Hopefully, we'll see some improvement by the next issue once the shiznit hits the fan.

All in all, not a great issue. Not a bad one by any means, but this is pretty pedestrian stuff thus far.

[Jack Zodiac]

Red Tornado...shaking hands...Tornado spirit rejecting the human body?

What does the Tantu Totem have to do with Reddy's android body?

Interaction between the Big 3. Did that seem a bit forced to anyone else?

I think Red Tornado's hands shaking was just to signify that he's afraid and can't hide it anymore behind his robotic anatomy. He's human now, and he's susceptible to the physical reations of emotions.

Vixen's totem being integrated into Red Tornado's body seems like another attempt at an Amazo android, incorporating aspects of several Leaguers into one being.

And I agree, the dialogue between Clark, Bruce, and Diana has be ridiculous, especially this issue. They need to just get on with it and build the new League. Morrison did it in less than an issue and it worked beautifully. There's no need for an in-depth mystery, or dragging out the recruitment process.

edit: And I totally forgot to mention the Booster Gold comment. <spoiler text on>

Superman talks about giving Booster's suit to someone? Guess that pretty much means that Booster did not come back from his explosive finish in 52. Leastways, not as Booster Gold. Did anyone else read it differently?

Doc

Nope. That's pretty much what I got out of it. :rolleyes: Yet another characted screwed over by a bad editorial process.

[deganawida]

-Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are still voting. The only new development is that they're going to vote on whether Batman should stay, which isn't remotely suspensful because it's obvious that Batman will stay. He's the goddamned Batman fer pete's sake.

This is something that I just don't get. Meltzer has spent over two issues trying to convince everyone that these three are the best of friends, and then he has two of Batman's "friends" vote on him behind his back? Not to mention, what would Clark and Diana do if they had a tie?

As for storytelling, it's extremely weak. This title is in its third issue (counting the zero issue), and nothing has really happened. This is the best that DC can do for one of its biggest titles? I'm vastly disappointed.

[Ian J.N.]

I enjoyed the first two issues, but this issue felt like Meltzer moving pieces around the chess board for the next issue's inevitable big brawl with the army of Red Tornado robots. Rather than giving the readers something new, he just reinterated what we already knew from the first issue:

-Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman are still voting. The only new development is that they're going to vote on whether Batman should stay, which isn't remotely suspensful because it's obvious that Batman will stay. He's the goddamned Batman fer pete's sake.

-Hal is still giving Roy a hard time, the only difference here is that Dinah's around to point it out instead of Roy. This is fun and all, but Dinah's relationship with Roy is still pretty undercooked.

-Black Lightning just repeated the same thing he did last issue, but with a gay villain this time instead of a drug addict villain.

-Vixen had a brief fight that made her look like an amateur, but perhaps this is a ruse on her part. Surely she's a little more careful about holding onto the source of her power than this.

-Red Tornado's storyline moved forward a bit, but in the most predictable manner possible. They kinda had to put this scene in there, but I wish they'd done so in a more interesting way.

-The art is pretty, but it doesn't feel like Benes is really stretching himself at all. I think he has the potential to be a great superhero artist, but he's relying on the same shtick he always has. Hopefully, we'll see some improvement by the next issue once the shiznit hits the fan.

All in all, not a great issue. Not a bad one by any means, but this is pretty pedestrian stuff thus far.
I agree with your criticisms, but the issue did have a few things I liked:

- the idea of metahuman "scanners" and the business Parasite has built around them.

- the possibility that Ivo is using animal avatar(s) to re-animate Red Tornado's body(ies). (Alternatively, he could be creating a new Amazo with a completely different power-set. That'd be cool too.)

- Hal and Roy's system of target practice.

And of course...

- big freakin' army of Red Tornados

The issue's a bit of a retread, but there are some novel ideas in there (more than the last four issues of Flash, at any rate).

[Damo]

I love Animal Man. Seriously.

But Vixen has way more training and experience when it comes to teamwork. And yes, that matters, even when you're channeling animals. And yes, he has some too, but she has significantly more. And yes, with people out there that can steal your powers (like Parasite, who showed up in this very issue) it is important to know hand to hand combat as well.

That said, I'm shaking my head at the writing. I am not liking Superman WW and Batman together... partly because they often seem to be voicing the author's opinions on who shouldn't be allowed on the team, rather than what they would say if years of characterization had been listened to.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I agree with your criticisms, but the issue did have a few things I liked:

- the idea of metahuman "scanners" and the business Parasite has built around them.

- the possibility that Ivo is using animal avatar(s) to re-animate Red Tornado's body(ies). (Alternatively, he could be creating a new Amazo with a completely different power-set. That'd be cool too.)

- Hal and Roy's system of target practice.

And of course...

- big freakin' army of Red Tornados

The issue's a bit of a retread, but there are some novel ideas in there (more than the last four issues of Flash, at any rate).

I would agree. As much as I was underwhelmed by Meltzer's latest issue, he does have a nack for throwing some nice details in there. His old college roomie Judd Winnick is also good at this. It's interesting that they both have many of the same weaknesses as writers too.

And, hell yes, on The Flash. I gave up after the first three issues. Doesn't surprise me that it hasn't improved.

[Carter Hall]

Okay, a few things:

I'm not going to join the Animal Man vs. Vixen debate, but I will say that she was transforming last JUST AS the totum was being stolen. She definitely said the name of the animal before her belt was off. It didn't look like she can morph without it.

As for the Red Tornado stuff, I'm interested to see where they're going with this. It seems like good character development to me, as does the rest of the book. I do think that too much internal monologuing can be annoying, and issue #0 seemed to me like it had too much of that. But as for 1-2, I disagree with the people who want more action. I like action, too, and I'm pretty sure that will come later, but for now, my guess is you're going to have a story that's more of a mystery like Identity Crisis. So just get comfortable.

[Autonomy]

Peraonlly I like the slower pace of the the book so far. I like how they are going more into the team, because this is a big title and a little more into the "beginnings" is good in my book.

I like the "Big 3" going over the names, I think its funny with some of the comments and sometimes interesting.

[skally19]

i've decided to look at this like a novel. and i imagine the shite is gonna hit the fan soon, and it'll be off. as of now it's back to set up.

[protege]

This is something that I just don't get. Meltzer has spent over two issues trying to convince everyone that these three are the best of friends, and then he has two of Batman's "friends" vote on him behind his back? Not to mention, what would Clark and Diana do if they had a tie?

As for storytelling, it's extremely weak. This title is in its third issue (counting the zero issue), and nothing has really happened. This is the best that DC can do for one of its biggest titles? I'm vastly disappointed.
It does seem kind of odd, unless they felt he couldn't give a full commitment to the league- Batman's been there more than either one of them in recent years. Still, if they had a problem with him, why not discuss it before they got his input on who else should be in the league?, and it's not like Wonder Woman can throw any stones about what Batman did.

[Deus ex Chris]

and it's not like Wonder Woman can throw any stones about what Batman did.
Wonder Woman was against it. Superman was the one being all high school back-stabber.

[Damo]

I don't like his writing, but I've read too many Marvel books not to try for the proverbial No Prize defending the scene.

Perhaps Superman was talking to WW about this because he picked up, from the voting, that there were still issues between her and Bats, and he wanted to make sure everyone in the core trinity was comfortable with the other two before the voting got any further along - making sure this thing is built on a good foundation.

Yup. If the scene has to be there, that's how I figure it should be played... Don't expect anything like that to be written though.

[K'Nort]

What was up with the line about Ivo and a raptor?

[Count Vertigo]

Some time ago, Ivo strove for immortality. He eventually achieved it. Llast time I saw him was in an old Justice League Quarterly when he sent androids to steal the powers of DC's then mightiest heroes in the 90s. he wanted to die BADLY because his body kept mutating and was very grotesque. He made Doctor Destiny seem like a male model.

[Jack Zodiac]

Ivo, for a long time, looked really hideous because of his immortality serum. It gave him lizard-like skin and gradually got worse over time. He was cured of it once, though, by Guy's ring, but he drank the serum again sometime after since he showed up in Morrison's JLA looking ugly as ever again.

Now he's apparently immortal and normal looking, and finally wishes to die instead of fearing it (for... whatever reason).

[Sean Whitmore]

Count me in on thinking this was a big letdown from last month. Hal and Roy's pissing match was old the second it started. Vixen and Lightning's plots are limping along like an old man on a cold day.

And the voting--my favorite part of last issue--was inane. Doctor Light is out because she's got a villain's name? Ollie's out because of an unrevealed bug up Superman's ass? Firehawk, a senator, is "a Teen Titan, not a Leaguer"? Voting on Batman? What the Christ happened here?


I am not liking Superman WW and Batman together... partly because they often seem to be voicing the author's opinions on who shouldn't be allowed on the team, rather than what they would say if years of characterization had been listened to.


As much as I thought the voting was stupid this issue, I don't agree. The final roster boils down to the author's opinions, as is always the case, but none of the reasons the big 3 gave for who they wanted felt OOC to me.


SEAN

[x1243]

Count me in on thinking this was a big letdown from last month. Hal and Roy's pissing match was old the second it started. Vixen and Lightning's plots are limping along like an old man on a cold day.

And the voting--my favorite part of last issue--was inane. Doctor Light is out because she's got a villain's name? Ollie's out because of an unrevealed bug up Superman's ass? Firehawk, a senator, is "a Teen Titan, not a Leaguer"? Voting on Batman? What the Christ happened here?





As much as I thought the voting was stupid this issue, I don't agree. The final roster boils down to the author's opinions, as is always the case, but none of the reasons the big 3 gave for who they wanted felt OOC to me.


SEAN

It's not an unrevealed bug.. when ollie died.. superman was sort of there/responsible..

[Joker2503]

Nightwing on the team would have been cool, I would like to know why he doesn't want in.

I think it's because he knew he'd be in Bruce's shadow. Yes, Superman, Wonder Woman, and everyone else respect the hell out of Nightwing. If Batman wasn't in the League, I believe Dick would have jumped at the chance to join. However, if he would be working side-by-side with Batman again in the JLA, he probably feel like he'd just be a sidekick for Batman again.

Or worse, a mascot for the entire JLA.

[Sean Whitmore]

The often interesting Dance of the Puppets (http://marionetteblog.blogspot.com/) blog suggests an alternate meaning to the exchange about Doctor Light that I hadn't considered. Look at the dialogue:

"It sends a message."
"We don't need that message."
"It'll scare them."

It's entirely possible that, at some point during 52, Kimiyo gets some revenge on the villain community (probably her namesake) for what was done to her. The kind of revenge that scares villains and the League don't want to be associated with.


SEAN

[Jack Zodiac]

Someone else brought that idea up in the Kimiyo thread, but I don't see it. I think the intent of that scene was pretty clear, and given the author, pretty distasteful.

[Gingold]

Jeesus. If there's one thing a JLA book should never be, it's slow. And now we've had three slow issues in a row. They're still looking at the little pictures? The line-up's already been revealed on the first two covers anyway, so why put us through this boring-ass selection show. It's the comic book equivilent of televising the NFL draft. I guess some people enjoy that sort of thing.

In addition, the art's a bit on the sucky side, Roy's wearing a really ugly costume (even for him), and Black Lightning needs to grow some hair back ASAP. I don't know how anybody could read this issue and be at all satisfied. I'll check out the next issue, but I think I'm done.

[Gingold]

i've decided to look at this like a novel.

Unfortunately, that novel is being written by Brad Meltzer.

[Jack Zodiac]

Unfortunately, that novel is being written by Brad Meltzer.

BA-ZING! Next issue, Clark's selected for jury duty and Diana and Bruce decide to get their library cards!

[Deadpooligan]

BA-ZING! Next issue, Clark's selected for jury duty and Diana and Bruce decide to get their library cards!

He sets 'em up, and I knock 'em down!

Jury Duty:

Selector: "So, Superman is it?"
Supes: "That's correct."
Selector: "What qualities do you have that would make you a good juror?"
Supes: "I feel I have a good sense of justice."
Selector: "Oh? But how do you feel about... oh... I don't know... illegal immigration?"
Supes: "I feel it's a threat to an American's very way of life!"
Selector: "And you say this knowing you yourself are an illegal immigrant?"
Supes: "What?!"
Selector: "You're actually not an American citizen. You never filed for citizenship."
Supes: "I had to! I'm sure I did back in the Silver Age!"
Selector: "No, you were too busy being a dick to file for it."
Supes: "Then I'm sure I did it after I died and came back from the dead ten years ago..."
Selector: "Fraid not, sir."
[Supes lost his citizenship in Infinite Crisis #7 -- Ed.]
Supes: *inner monologue* I must have lost my citizenship during Superboy Prime's retcon punches during the Crisis! Now how can I defend the innocent with judicial law??

Meanwhile... in the Gotham City Library...

Clerk: Sir, can I have your name please for your library card application?
Batman: "I'm Batman".
Clerk: "Sir, I need your real name."
Batman: "I'm Batman."
Clerk: "Sir, you're mumbling and I can't hear you. Did you know his name, miss?"
Wonder Woman: "He's Batman."
Batman: "I'M BATMAN!"
Clerk: "Sir! This is a library! Pipe down! Next on line please?"
Batman: "Give me my damn library card!"
Clerk: "Sir, please move out of the way. Next on line please?"
Batman: "Wonder Woman, break this bitch's neck."
Wonder Woman: "I don't do that anymore."
Batman: "Sure you don't."

[Xero]

Seems like there's some interest in Vixen #1, so here's a link (http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/docs/vixen/index.htm) to the ashcans.

And here's a link (http://www.thevhive.com/forum/index.php?webtag=DWAYNEMCDUFFIE&msg=737.12) to Dwayne McDuffie's Bronze Tiger and Vixen mini-series proposal, with costume redesigns by Eddy Newell.

[Count Vertigo]

I don't like Vixen's look. Reminds me of that voodoo priestess who controlled the Lizard in McFarlane's Spider-Man

[glue]

The selection process shouldn't still be going on. If Metzler wants to focus on the other members for awhile, that's fine. But there's no need to have the selection going on when it's clearly just to have The Big Three show up.

Other than that, I enjoyed the issue.

[jaguarshark]

It's the comic book equivilent of televising the NFL draft. I guess some people enjoy that sort of thing.

Worse, it's the comic book equivilent of televising the NFL draft AFTER the advertisements have already told us who gets drafted.
I mean, like you say, it's right there on the freakin' cover... I'm hoping they'll throw a curveball and that won't turn out to be the actual team, but it pretty much definitely is.

It makes sense for marketing purposes for fans and retailers to know who's in the team, but dragging the selection process out this long on top of that is a little strange. (Especially considering that the actual selection process is occuring organically, as a team forms by itself while the Big Three cold chill.)

[Damo]

Seems like there's some interest in Vixen #1, so here's a link (http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/docs/vixen/index.htm) to the ashcans.

And here's a link (http://www.thevhive.com/forum/index.php?webtag=DWAYNEMCDUFFIE&msg=737.12) to Dwayne McDuffie's Bronze Tiger and Vixen mini-series proposal, with costume redesigns by Eddy Newell.

Thanks very much for the link. Hm... I can't seem to find the actual proposal, just the art and McDuffie saying it would be like the Avengers (the British one with Emma Peel poured into a catsuit).

I'm torn looking at the art. Even though I love seeing him in his original costume in Checkmate now, that Bronze Tiger design looks fantastic, and there is no such thing as too much appreciation for Ben Turner (Chuck Dixon's series did not happen dammit). But the one with him hovering and glowing makes me worry they might have gone a little too mystical than I would want for him, and that Vixen design... I hate that Vixen design. But damn, I can't stop looking at that great first picture of Ben. Why the hell does he get no respect any more?

[K'Nort]

Someone else brought that idea up in the Kimiyo thread, but I don't see it. I think the intent of that scene was pretty clear, and given the author, pretty distasteful.

If it was only due to the name, it seemed more like the only reason to add her, not the only reason not to add her. And in that case, they were right to reject it.

But there are a lot of deaths coming up in 52, per a recent Outsiders, so it's still possible she did something drastic.

[Jack Zodiac]

Not just the name, but everything attached to it: Arthur Light's crime, the League's reaction, and the eventual fallout between heroes and alliance between villains. All very good reasons not to add her. If it were anyone other than Brad, I'd be more inclined to think she did something during the missing year to spark a similar conversation about membership.

[Xero]

Thanks very much for the link. Hm... I can't seem to find the actual proposal....

Here's the pitch link (http://www.thevhive.com/forum/index.php?webtag=DWAYNEMCDUFFIE&msg=737.8).

[Constantine Drakon]

Looks like all he says on the idea is:

I pitched a Bronze Tiger and Vixen series many years ago called "Bronze Thrills." Maybe I should dig it up again. It was a modern take on the old "Avengers" TV show. Steed and Peel, not Cap and Iron Man.

I just re-read it. Holy crap, I love it! Great art from Eddy Newell, a story that rehabilitates Bronze Tiger and makes Vixen just as cool as she is on JLU. It links their origins in an unexpected way and sets them up for new stuff. I'm going to pitch it as soon as I figure out how.

I don't think he gives details on what the story would be, if you were looking for that.

And Vixen and Bronze Tiger need more respect. I'm very happy she's in the book... unless she just got killed.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Also, anybody else notice how Vixen's Tantu totem just magically appeared around her waist this issue and that her powers where still present when the totem was taken?

No they weren't. She said "cat", but then nothing happened. I don't think she realized she lost her totem.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Well, I'm out. After three issues (counting the zero issue) of Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman sitting around a table calling each other by their first names and gossiping about their fellow superheroes like little girls at a slumber party, I just can't take it any more. And the internal monologues! When you have so many constantly running internal monologues that you actually need to tag each one with a different color just so readers can keep each character's monologue straight, you might have gone a little overboard. I dropped Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman after one issue (the Free Comic Book Day issue, actually) because of the poorly written internal monologes of those two characters. This comic has that problem times six!

Maybe if the other heroes were up to something interesting, I could put up with the boring bits, but so far their storylines are equally as unengaging to me. Black Lightning is investigating gay supervillains because he used to be part of President Luthor's regime. Uh, what? Vixen is getting attacked in a bar for a really long time and then having the source of her powers stolen, although she still appears to have her powers. Huh? And then we have Red Tornado who has become human with all the X-treme pathos and overwriting of the very worst Data episode of Star Trek and then proceeds to get it on with some pathetically desperate woman who needs his sex so bad that she has made him "sore." Ick. Just not my cup of tea.

I've gotta say that as much as I'm not digging this, I'm still disappointed. I've always like the concept of the JLA and Grant Morrison's last relaunch of the title was a good time. It's true that I am no Meltzer fan, but I was really hoping despite that fact that I would enjoy this title. No such luck.

Guess I'll try a different title. I've been meaning to give Manhunter a read! And the upcoming storyline with Wonder Woman may be a good jumping on point.

Corey

I think its interesting that the people who don't even read the issue correctly are the ones who are leaving because they don't enjoy it. Black Lightning is not investigating gay supervillains: he's investigating a supervillain that happens to be gay. His sexual orientation isn't the important thing, the important matter is that B.L. can blackmail the guy because he has info that the other guy absolutely does not want revealed. That "pathetically desperate woman who needs his sex so bad that she has made him "sore." " is the Red Tornado's wife, and the mother of his child.

Someone else complained about the pacing in issue #1, saying that 5 pages was too long to take showing a door being opened. This person completely missed the brilliant story telling taking place as we watch parallel story construction unfold on three different levels at once. Those last 10 pages were the most susupensefull pages I've read in a comic book in a long time.

I'm curious if the same people here who decry the character development in this series and praise Morrison's run also find All Star Superman to be slow paced and lacking in action.

[Arkham Resident]

Slow ish...

I hope we get to see the Big Three finish the voting and actually inviting each pick to join in. Their reactions and what they have to say. And the final team together with the Big Three in action.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

There's a word for this comic's arc.

Decompression.

It's got it bad...and that ain't good.

[Corey Dalton]

I think its interesting that the people who don't even read the issue correctly are the ones who are leaving because they don't enjoy it. Black Lightning is not investigating gay supervillains: he's investigating a supervillain that happens to be gay. His sexual orientation isn't the important thing, the important matter is that B.L. can blackmail the guy because he has info that the other guy absolutely does not want revealed. That "pathetically desperate woman who needs his sex so bad that she has made him "sore." " is the Red Tornado's wife, and the mother of his child.

Someone else complained about the pacing in issue #1, saying that 5 pages was too long to take showing a door being opened. This person completely missed the brilliant story telling taking place as we watch parallel story construction unfold on three different levels at once. Those last 10 pages were the most susupensefull pages I've read in a comic book in a long time.

I'm curious if the same people here who decry the character development in this series and praise Morrison's run also find All Star Superman to be slow paced and lacking in action.

Yeah, I understand that Black Lightning is investigating a supervillain who just happens to be gay. My point in mentioning the gay thing was "What does the fact that lame supervillain #641 is gay have to do with anything that is going on in the comicbook?" My answer was "absolutely nothing." It seemed weird to me that Meltzer went to the trouble of saying that Black Lightning knows that the guy is secretly gay for absolutely no reason. You seem to be saying that Black Lightning is blackmailing him because he's gay. I really didn't get that at all (in fact, I thought B.L. -- in his neverending monologue -- mentioned that the lame guy didn't know that B.L. knew). If you're right, though, what kind of hero is B.L. for blackmailing someone because of their sexuality. Sheesh!

And, yes, I knew that the woman shagging Red Tornado was his wife or girlfriend or whatever. I still think she comes across as pathetic and cloying in the two issues in which she's appeared, but then I've thought the same thing about nearly every single female character I've ever read that was written by Brad Meltzer. So maybe that's not so much a critique on this pathetically needy woman and it is on Meltzer's women in general. Or maybe I just don't like his writing. In either casen, I still didn't need the image of a sore "little tornado," though.

Anyway, this comic is simply not my cup of tea, so I'll be leaving it on the racks from now on.

As for your off-the-wall comment on All Star Superman, your syntax leaves me a bit confused on whether you're saying you like it or not. I'll assume you're saying you like and just say that we can agree that that comic is brilliant! Good taste, my friend!

Corey

[slayer2005]

I wanted to see how the others react about the Big 3 being choosy about the JLA membership.

Then, I want to see everyone rejecting the Trinity.

[Paul Newell]

Yeah, I understand that Black Lightning is investigating a supervillain who just happens to be gay. My point in mentioning the gay thing was "What does the fact that lame supervillain #641 is gay have to do with anything that is going on in the comicbook?" My answer was "absolutely nothing." It seemed weird to me that Meltzer went to the trouble of saying that Black Lightning knows that the guy is secretly gay for absolutely no reason. You seem to be saying that Black Lightning is blackmailing him because he's gay. I really didn't get that at all (in fact, I thought B.L. -- in his neverending monologue -- mentioned that the lame guy didn't know that B.L. knew). If you're right, though, what kind of hero is B.L. for blackmailing someone because of their sexuality. Sheesh!
In that scene Cavalier knows that Black Lightning is aware of his sexuality, but is unaware of the fact that BL would never reveal the secret to other Super-Villains. Black Lightning is not "blackmailing", but using the old method you would see any TV/film cop or detective use, of bluffing the information out of the villain. Cavalier is worried about what BL will do with that information, so he sings like a canary. The bluff comes into play because Cavalier is unaware of the fact that BL will not reveal the information to anyone else, something that Cavalier doesn't want some of his "less-forgiving" associates to find out as they would kill him.

As to the reason for revealing that the Cavalier is gay as the "guilty secret". I'm pretty sure its an inside joke more than anything else.

I'm actually surprised no-one has commented on it yet.

[Corey Dalton]

In that scene Cavalier knows that Black Lightning is aware of his sexuality, but is unaware of the fact that BL would never reveal the secret to other Super-Villains. Black Lightning is not "blackmailing", but using the old method you would see any TV/film cop or detective use, of bluffing the information out of the villain. Cavalier is worried about what BL will do with that information, so he sings like a canary. The bluff comes into play because Cavalier is unaware of the fact that BL will not reveal the information to anyone else, something that Cavalier doesn't want some of his "less-forgiving" associates to find out as they would kill him.

As to the reason for revealing that the Cavalier is gay as the "guilty secret". I'm pretty sure its an inside joke more than anything else.

I'm actually surprised no-one has commented on it yet.

Ah! Thanks for the clarification, Paul. What you say makes sense as to why the gay issue was brought up in Black Lightning's narration in the first place. I didn't think that I recalled Black Lightning "blackmailing" Cavalier.... Thank goodness I didn't have to go back and actually re-read the issue for myself! ha ha.

[Alex A Sanchez]

As for your off-the-wall comment on All Star Superman, your syntax leaves me a bit confused on whether you're saying you like it or not. I'll assume you're saying you like and just say that we can agree that that comic is brilliant! Good taste, my friend!

Corey

I should have been clearer. I'm comparing this comic with All Star Superman because i would consider them both to have the similar pacing, and both contain about the same amount of action and "mushiness". All of the problems people are listing with Justice League also exist in A.S.S., except that nobody is complaining about them when discussing that title. I'm trying to figure out what is so different between the two.

And for the record, I am enjoying both titles.

[K'Nort]

I should have been clearer. I'm comparing this comic with All Star Superman because i would consider them both to have the similar pacing, and both contain about the same amount of action and "mushiness". All of the problems people are listing with Justice League also exist in A.S.S., except that nobody is complaining about them when discussing that title. I'm trying to figure out what is so different between the two.

The relative popularity of Superman vs Red Tornado is a big one.

[Sean Whitmore]

All of the problems people are listing with Justice League also exist in A.S.S., except that nobody is complaining about them when discussing that title. I'm trying to figure out what is so different between the two.


In my case, it's that I don't see the same problems in both titles. While I like both books for what they are, A.S.S. has already told 5 complete stories in 5 issues, with an overall plot linking them. JLA has had the Big Three sitting at a table for three issues (an oversimplification, but indicative of the larger problem).


SEAN

[TheTen-EyedMan]

The relative popularity of Superman vs Red Tornado is a big one.

Popularity is relative.

Relative to the characterisation.

Does anyone really think the following.

A) This change will last?

B) This will lower John Smith/Red Tornado's Mort Meter status?

[Gingold]

I'm trying to figure out what is so different between the two.


They really couldn't be more different.

Simply put- All Star Superman is good and JLofA isn't.

Also- The stories in ASS, while part of a slow-building ongoing narrative, stand alone as stories in and of themselves. And each issue has had lots and lots of stuff going on. We've seen Superman travel to the sun, reveal his identity to Lois, have Lois visit the Fortress and gain superpowers, fun hijinks with Samson and Hercules, Jimmy Olsen becoming Doomsday, and Clark in jail with Lex, all scripted skillfully by Grant Morrison and drawn beautifully by Frank Quitely.

On the other hand, we've had three issues of JLofA that are part of one story that most certainly couldn't stand on their own. There's no attempt to structure the stories within the issues, the story just stops there because Meltzer ran out of pages. The art is bad, the scripting is mediocre, and it's hard to tell if the story is interesting because three issues in, I don't have much an idea of what's happening.

[PastePotPete]

They really couldn't be more different.

Simply put- All Star Superman is good and JLofA isn't.

Also- The stories in ASS, while part of a slow-building ongoing narrative, stand alone as stories in and of themselves. And each issue has had lots and lots of stuff going on. We've seen Superman travel to the sun, reveal his identity to Lois, have Lois visit the Fortress and gain superpowers, fun hijinks with Samson and Hercules, Jimmy Olsen becoming Doomsday, and Clark in jail with Lex, all scripted skillfully by Grant Morrison and drawn beautifully by Frank Quitely.

On the other hand, we've had three issues of JLofA that are part of one story that most certainly couldn't stand on their own. There's no attempt to structure the stories within the issues, the story just stops there because Meltzer ran out of pages. The art is bad, the scripting is mediocre, and it's hard to tell if the story is interesting because three issues in, I don't have much an idea of what's happening.

First, I don't really think we can count JLofA #0 as a chapter in this storyline. It was a prologue and advertised as such, and for long-time fans of the Big 3, I think it worked. It was meant to bridge the gap between Infinite Crisis and Justice League and I think it did that. A successful outing in my opinion, but not a great first issue for any new fans.

Now, I've been disagreeing with posters who say we've seen nothing happen in these recent two issues of JLofA.

Looking at the 'selection' scenes...You're telling me that you don't enjoy seeing the interaction between these three characters? You're telling me you don't like that a writer is finally attempting to truly define Wonderwoman's role among the other two? You don't like seeing their reactions to other heroes and getting an inside look at what selection process for the Justice League is like?

Just because these characters aren't fighting bad guys and haven't changed locations doesn't mean nothing is happening.

Give the writer a chance to move his pieces into play, for God's sake! I know everyone is hyper-sensitive to decompression these days, but Meltzer hasn't pulled a Bendis on us yet. He hasn't crossed that Bendis line.

And the art is great. Detailed, classic style with a fresh look to it. What don't you like about the art?

[rajah1]

And the art is great. Detailed, classic style with a fresh look to it. What don't you like about the art?[/QUOTE]

The art is great, but the artist does let some smaller details that are important to the character down...eg Arsenal's soul patch must have blown off in the breeze between issue 1 and 2..not to mention the tattoo that the character has been sporting for almost twenty years got washed off in the bath at some stage..and I miss the cool boots he used to wear.

[Matt Algren]

eg Arsenal's soul patch must have blown off in the breeze between issue 1 and 2..not to mention the tattoo that the character has been sporting for almost twenty years got washed off in the bath at some stage..and I miss the cool boots he used to wear.
Superboy PUNCH!!!

[Gingold]

Looking at the 'selection' scenes...You're telling me that you don't enjoy seeing the interaction between these three characters? You're telling me you don't like that a writer is finally attempting to truly define Wonderwoman's role among the other two?

Three pages of the selection process, Clark and Bruce flirting with each other, and Diana playing den mother would've been okay- maybe. Three issues? Waaay too long. But regardless of the length, there's no real character development, nothing that moves the plot forward, just a lot of padding, all wrapped up in the hackneyed multi-colored narrator boxes schtick.

You don't like seeing their reactions to other heroes and getting an inside look at what selection process for the Justice League is like?

Put it in a Secret Files and Origins. In the actual comic, I want a story. That's not a story.

Just because these characters aren't fighting bad guys and haven't changed locations doesn't mean nothing is happening.

In a Justice League comic? The Giffen/DeMatteis League pulled that off from time to time, but even the best issues of their run had lots of action and stuff going on.


Give the writer a chance to move his pieces into play, for God's sake! I know everyone is hyper-sensitive to decompression these days, but Meltzer hasn't pulled a Bendis on us yet. He hasn't crossed that Bendis line.

Expecting exciting, interesting superheroey stuff to happen in a comic called Justice League of America is being hyper-sensitive to decompression? Hell, even the early issues of Bendis's New Avengers had lots of stuff going on.


And the art is great. Detailed, classic style with a fresh look to it. What don't you like about the art?

Different stokes, I guess. He's like the poor man's Jim Lee, and I'm not that big of a Lee fan.


Sorry if I come off sounding so negative about the book. I'm glad you enjoy it. I really wish that I did too.

[Guts/Batman]

I looked through this issue on the shelf at the comic store (I still haven't gotten around eliminating certain titles from my box list yet), and wasn't impressed with it. It didn't read like it was going anywhere. It felt incredibly boring.

Sufficed to say, I pulled it out of the bag and board and put it back on the shelf to make room for Eternals.

[PastePotPete]

Three pages of the selection process, Clark and Bruce flirting with each other, and Diana playing den mother would've been okay- maybe. Three issues? Waaay too long. But regardless of the length, there's no real character development, nothing that moves the plot forward, just a lot of padding, all wrapped up in the hackneyed multi-colored narrator boxes schtick.

Maybe not DEVELOPMENT in that the character's are changing, but Meltzer is laying a foundation. He's showing you how he interprets these three and so far, I like the interpretations.

Put it in a Secret Files and Origins. In the actual comic, I want a story. That's not a story.

It is a story. Maybe you don't find it interesting, but a behind-the-scenes look at the selection process for the team is pretty fun for me as a long time JLA fan. And you could do an entire issue on JUST that because there's enough meaty character interaction to support it. As it stands now, lots of other stuff is happening too!

Expecting exciting, interesting superheroey stuff to happen in a comic called Justice League of America is being hyper-sensitive to decompression? Hell, even the early issues of Bendis's New Avengers had lots of stuff going on.

Yeah, Bendis started with a bang, but by the time he got to the Spiderwoman storyline where the New Avengers sat around talking for three issues, I was a bit annoyed.

My point is that's not what's happening here. And I think that saying nothing is happening after only two issues is a bit premature. I think exciting superheroey stuff IS happening. Less on the fighting side and more the character development side, sure, but I really like how he's painting the characters. I guess you and I are just different. I'm willing to wait for things to develop. I'll give a book TWO issues to get its ducks in a row before I scream BORING!

I guess I don't have a really clear idea of what you want to see. Can you name another book that has done what you're advocating this book do in two issues. In the first TWO ISSUES. Give me an example so I know what you're talking about.

And once you've done that, give me a book with ten main characters that did what you're saying this book should do.

In two issues.

Decompression is a problem in comics recently. No question. But it doesn't follow that changing location and adding fights automatically makes a comic better.

[LtMarvel]

Entertainment Weekly notes that writer Meltzer is the first to hold the top spots in both NYTimes best seller list and the Diamond top sellers list.

[Corey Dalton]

Entertainment Weekly notes that writer Meltzer is the first to hold the top spots in both NYTimes best seller list and the Diamond top sellers list.

And Entertainment Weekly is also a part of the Time-Warner machine that just happens to publish Meltzer's books and own DC Comics. The media has been pumping Meltzer for months now and I can't, for the life of me, see why. I don't begrudge him his success or anything (I hear he's a very nice guy), but his writing just doesn't connect with me. I guess what I'm saying is that just because someone's work is at the top of the sales list, doesn't neccessarily make that work good. You will never convince me that the New Kids on the Block were musically talented, but lots and lots of teenage girls put them at the top of the sales charts.

Anyway, to stay on the topic of Justice Leagues 0-2, I think the part that bothers me the most about the issues is the attempt that Meltzer (and the rest of the DC's current crop of writers) is making to portray Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman (and anyone who has ever thrown on a mask/cape, really) as if they are all the best of friends, know each other's secret identities, and have BBQs together on the weekends. I really don't want to see DC's three premier superheroes sitting around a table, slapping each other on the back, laughing at their in-jokes, and acting as if they have nothing better to do. That scenario just doesn't remotely interest me. I'd prefer to see these larger-than-life heroes doing spectacular things, using their powers, fighting villains, etc. Characterization is fine (and, indeed, necessary), but the characterizations that are currently being attempted with these three icons (two frat guys and the prom queen) are, unfortunately, turning them into the types of characters that I just don't want to read about. And, aside from all that, the issues so far have just been plain boring.

Corey

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Anyway, to stay on the topic of Justice Leagues 0-2, I think the part that bothers me the most about the issues is the attempt that Meltzer (and the rest of the DC's current crop of writers) is making to portray Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman (and anyone who has ever thrown on a mask/cape, really) as if they are all the best of friends, know each other's secret identities, and have BBQs together on the weekends. I really don't want to see DC's three premier superheroes sitting around a table, slapping each other on the back, laughing at their in-jokes, and acting as if they have nothing better to do. That scenario just doesn't remotely interest me. I'd prefer to see these larger-than-life heroes doing spectacular things, using their powers, fighting villains, etc. Characterization is fine (and, indeed, necessary), but the characterizations that are currently being attempted with these three icons (two frat guys and the prom queen) are, unfortunately, turning them into the types of characters that I just don't want to read about. And, aside from all that, the issues so far have just been plain boring.

Corey

I hear you, but if you want a different take on these characters, you can find that in other comics. It's not like anyone is forcing you to read issue after issue of Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman sitting around having a BBQ. If you want to read about them doing larger-than-life spectacular things, there's plenty of other comics of them doing that kind of stuff. Meltzer doesn't really specialize in that kind of thing.

Nobody is asking you to like Meltzer's writing or his characterization of the DC heroes. but he's done enough work by now for readers to know what they're getting into when they buy one of his comics and he is most definitely not a larger-than-life spectacular kind of guy. He's a super-heroes having a BBQ kind of guy.

In other words, you don't go into a Woody Allen movie and complain that there's not enough big action set pieces and too much neurotic kvetching just as you don't go to see a Michael Bay film and expect to see a subtle and emotionally engaging examination of the human condition.

If action and spectacle are what you're looking for, I'd suggest you pick up Morrison's All Star Superman and Batman, both of which are packed with lots of larger than life eye candy and are a heckuva lot of fun. And if you're looking for the Justice League of America in particular, look no further than Alex Ross & Company's Justice, which is like the Challenge of the Superfriends on crack.

[Deus ex Chris]

In other words, you don't go into a Woody Allen movie and complain that there's not enough big action set pieces and too much neurotic kvetching just as you don't go to see a Michael Bay film and expect to see a subtle and emotionally engaging examination of the human condition.
It'd be great if Meltzer's run was reading like Woody Allen, but the big three stuff isn't engaging on any level, and the Tornado stuff is reading like a plot straight out of Days of Our Lives. It's too much.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It'd be great if Meltzer's run was reading like Woody Allen, but the big three stuff isn't engaging on any level, and the Tornado stuff is reading like a plot straight out of Days of Our Lives. It's too much.

I'm growing bored with the Big 3 and Red Tornado stuff as well, but this is the kind of material Meltzer does. Whether or not he's doing it in an engaging and interesting way is certainly up for debate, but it doesn't strike me as fair to criticize it for not being a completely different type of super-hero story. Meltzer isn't doing Morrison's JLA anymore than Morrison was doing Giffen's JLA.

[Gingold]

My point is that's not what's happening here. And I think that saying nothing is happening after only two issues is a bit premature. I think exciting superheroey stuff IS happening. Less on the fighting side and more the character development side, sure, but I really like how he's painting the characters. I guess you and I are just different. I'm willing to wait for things to develop. I'll give a book TWO issues to get its ducks in a row before I scream BORING!

I guess I don't have a really clear idea of what you want to see. Can you name another book that has done what you're advocating this book do in two issues. In the first TWO ISSUES. Give me an example so I know what you're talking about.



Morrison's JLA.
Giffen's JLI
Gardner Fox's JLA
James Robinson's JSA

These four incarnations of basically the same team, they're all very different from each other, three of the four were part of an extended introductory storyline, but they were all satisying reads. I didn't feel cheated or bored after reading the first issue, or the second issue. I do here.

If all of the events in the 0th, 1st, and 2nd issues were compressed into one issue, this could be good. I like the characters. Dr. Impossible looks like he could be an intriguing villain. The army of multi-colored Tornadoes could be fun. Garnder Fox could've done it in 10 pages.

[Corey Dalton]

I'm growing bored with the Big 3 and Red Tornado stuff as well, but this is the kind of material Meltzer does. Whether or not he's doing it in an engaging and interesting way is certainly up for debate, but it doesn't strike me as fair to criticize it for not being a completely different type of super-hero story. Meltzer isn't doing Morrison's JLA anymore than Morrison was doing Giffen's JLA.

I'm with you all the way, Bored at 3:00 AM, which is why I don't plan to pick up any more issues of this series. As I stated earlier, I have not liked Meltzer's writing in the past, but I've always had a fondness for the concept of the JLA. I went into the series hoping for the best, but I've been disappointed with the first 3 issues, so I'm quitting the series now. I'm certainly not saying that every book needs to be exciting and action-packed, I'm just posting here to express my thoughts on the series, explain why I'm disappointed, and see how others are liking (or not liking) the series so far. It sounds like there are quite a few people who like Meltzer's stuff, so more power to you! Me, I'm done with this comic until there's a new writer or a major change in direction.

As for Justice, I am reading it and enjoying it. Not a big fan of Alex Ross in general (I recognize the skill involved in his work, but I just don't personally like the ultra-realistic look on superheroes because, to me, the heroes end up looking people dressed in homemade costumes at a comic convention -- visible seams and all), but I'm enjoying his take on the team. All Star Superman is, as I've said, one of my current favorite series (but, then, I like nearly everything Morrison writes). After reading the first issue of All Star Batman, however, I don't think you could pay me enough money to go near another issue. I'm not a huge Miller or Lee fan, but even my low expectations for that series were not met.

Corey

[Corey Dalton]

It'd be great if Meltzer's run was reading like Woody Allen, but the big three stuff isn't engaging on any level, and the Tornado stuff is reading like a plot straight out of Days of Our Lives. It's too much.

Don't lower Days of Our Lives to the levels of the Red Tornado plot, Deus ex Chris! That show features quality writing. ha ha.

Corey

[Matt Algren]

After reading the first issue of All Star Batman, however, I don't think you could pay me enough money to go near another issue. I'm not a huge Miller or Lee fan, but even my low expectations for that series were not met.He's talking about regular Batman (Batman Classic?), written by Morrison with art by one of the Kuberts. I've heard good things as well.

[Deus ex Chris]

I'm growing bored with the Big 3 and Red Tornado stuff as well, but this is the kind of material Meltzer does. Whether or not he's doing it in an engaging and interesting way is certainly up for debate, but it doesn't strike me as fair to criticize it for not being a completely different type of super-hero story. Meltzer isn't doing Morrison's JLA anymore than Morrison was doing Giffen's JLA.
I can certainly agree with that.

[Deus ex Chris]

Don't lower Days of Our Lives to the levels of the Red Tornado plot, Deus ex Chris! That show features quality writing. ha ha.

Corey
That was lower than my comment. ;)

[Corey Dalton]

He's talking about regular Batman (Batman Classic?), written by Morrison with art by one of the Kuberts. I've heard good things as well.

Ah! My bad, Necktie. I am reading the Morrison/Kubert Batman comic and digging it. The run has got me to buy three consecutive issues of Batman, anyway, which is more issues of that comic than I think I've bought in the past 5 years or so.

[jaguarshark]

Morrison's JLA.
Giffen's JLI
Gardner Fox's JLA
James Robinson's JSA

These four incarnations of basically the same team, they're all very different from each other, three of the four were part of an extended introductory storyline, but they were all satisying reads. I didn't feel cheated or bored after reading the first issue, or the second issue. I do here.

If all of the events in the 0th, 1st, and 2nd issues were compressed into one issue, this could be good. I like the characters. Dr. Impossible looks like he could be an intriguing villain. The army of multi-colored Tornadoes could be fun. Garnder Fox could've done it in 10 pages.
Well, yeah, Gardner Fox could have done it in ten pages, but it would have been unreadable by today's standards. For all its evils, decompression has led us to expect a certain calibre of writing (particularly dialogue) that we didn't see much of in Fox's early JLA issues.
Having said that, the second issue of Meltzer's JLA was pretty freakin' bad.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Anyway, to stay on the topic of Justice Leagues 0-2, I think the part that bothers me the most about the issues is the attempt that Meltzer (and the rest of the DC's current crop of writers) is making to portray Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman (and anyone who has ever thrown on a mask/cape, really) as if they are all the best of friends.

•Well if you haven't noticed, they started out being chummy and excited to see each other, but that excitement has slowly eroded, and they are starting to become frustrated with each other. I predict they're at each other's throats by the end.

•Like people pointed out in the beginning of this thread, chances are that the plan for the story is to have the Big 3 spend all this time selecting a team while the team forms on its own without them. I predict that they are still at that table when the story ends: if they were going to leave the Batcave and do something, they would have done it already.

•Don't you dare sell Jamie Grant short on A.S.S.!!! Quietly's good, but its Grant's colors that make that book look as grandiose as it does.:evilangry

•Benes' art has been fantastic to me.

•I may be a little biased towards the story, since as a Young Justice fan I like the Red Tornado a lot and am familiar with the character. I can see how someone who knows little about him would not be as interested in this storyline as I am. Wait your turn, and I'm sure you will get a good story when your favorite characters are spotlighted.

[PastePotPete]

I can certainly agree with that.

Yeah, I guess I can agree with what Deus Ex Chris agreed with. The thing that Bored at 3:00am said. About how Meltzer is doing Meltzer and he's not going to try to do Gardner Fox or Giffen or anyone else.

And it was stupid of me to challenge anyone to come up with examples of a series where more happened in the first two issues. Of course people will come running in with examples, but we would be missing the point. Meltzer tells the story his way.

I liked Identity Crisis. I liked Archer's Quest. So far, I'm liking this.

Based on those stories, we had to know that we were going to get a more psychological/relationship - oriented take on these heroes. So far, that's what we're getting.

And if we don't have the team formed by issue 4, even I'll jump on the bandwagon and say "Okay, time to get moving here, Meltzer."

[Kintales]

Yeah, I guess I can agree with what Deus Ex Chris agreed with. The thing that Bored at 3:00am said. About how Meltzer is doing Meltzer and he's not going to try to do Gardner Fox or Giffen or anyone else.

And it was stupid of me to challenge anyone to come up with examples of a series where more happened in the first two issues. Of course people will come running in with examples, but we would be missing the point. Meltzer tells the story his way.

I liked Identity Crisis. I liked Archer's Quest. So far, I'm liking this.

Based on those stories, we had to know that we were going to get a more psychological/relationship - oriented take on these heroes. So far, that's what we're getting.

And if we don't have the team formed by issue 4, even I'll jump on the bandwagon and say "Okay, time to get moving here, Meltzer."

Yeah, i agree with PastePotPete. It's just Meltzer's writing style. More psychological, relationship-oriented, emotional and character driven.

His stories read like a novel, pace like a roller-coaster that has just started to move off and climb slowly and gradually. Kind of like his writing myself. There are actually quite a few plotlines going on in every issue with each different group of heroes, and IMO Meltzer have handled them quite well. LOL i guess with next issue's multi-coloured Tornados, the roller-coaster starts to plunge :D

[We R. Venom]

I am so lost and behind on a few of these characters, but im sure ill get by. I cant wait for #3, whenever it comes out, i know itll be great. Good to have a Green Lantern in there to keep me interested. I do wonder how the team as a whole will work together, and what will "The Big Three's" roles be.

[ponset]

BL mentions that Morty(Cavalier) Drake's lover is Captain Stingrae.
Problem is Catpain Stingrae was frozen solid by Mr. Freeze in Detective Comics #526.
Brad seems like to bring dead Bat-villians back to life.
First Black Spider in Identiy Crisis and now this.

Otherwise this was an excellent issue.
Heart-warming scenes with RT and his family.
Hal testing Roy was Neat.
Beautiful art work by Ed.

[Buried Alien]

I wasn't too thrilled by Superman and Wonder Woman's privately discussing the possibility of removing Batman from the League (unless they were just kidding) while Batman was busy on the phone. I thought the idea behind INFINITE CRISIS and its aftermath was to put such backstabbing and infighting behind the Big Three.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Staredcraft]

Not just the name, but everything attached to it: Arthur Light's crime, the League's reaction, and the eventual fallout between heroes and alliance between villains. All very good reasons not to add her. If it were anyone other than Brad, I'd be more inclined to think she did something during the missing year to spark a similar conversation about membership.

No...Bard would still have used her IMO because he's stated she's one of his all time favorites. So I think even if he wanted to he could have had them look the other way

[Steve Brady]

I wasn't too thrilled by Superman and Wonder Woman's privately discussing the possibility of removing Batman from the League (unless they were just kidding) while Batman was busy on the phone. I thought the idea behind INFINITE CRISIS and its aftermath was to put such backstabbing and infighting behind the Big Three.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I must be the only one who read this as, each pair was going to vote on the third, and Supes and WW were just getting theirs out of the way while Batman was on the phone.

[Deus ex Chris]

I must be the only one who read this as, each pair was going to vote on the third, and Supes and WW were just getting theirs out of the way while Batman was on the phone.
Wonder Woman told Superman it was no longer necessary, which suggests there was some sort of doubt about Batman's involvement, specifically.

[jodykw1982]

I haven't read DC comics in ages and recently started again. I picked up the first 2 issues of JLA. Seems slow so far....

One thing bothers me though... In the first issue they vote on Captain Marvel... I don't understand exactly the what's going on in the DCU right now... Marvel is currently at the Rock of Eternity serving as the new Wizard... There is no more Captain marvel... Can anyone clear that up for me?

Also,
I agree with the comment made earlier. I find it crappy that Superman would try to pull a fast one on Batman....

[slayer2005]

One thing bothers me though... In the first issue they vote on Captain Marvel... I don't understand exactly the what's going on in the DCU right now... Marvel is currently at the Rock of Eternity serving as the new Wizard... There is no more Captain marvel... Can anyone clear that up for me?

Captain Marvel 3/Jr. or CM3 (aka Freddy) will be the new Captain Marvel. It's been chronicled at the Trials of Shazam mini-series.

[jodykw1982]

Captain Marvel 3/Jr. or CM3 (aka Freddy) will be the new Captain Marvel. It's been chronicled at the Trials of Shazam mini-series.

Well I get that... but they clearly show a picture of billy and talk about Billy as being a child and what not and how he has so much potential.....

I'm confused on the continuity right now. Anybody else with me?

[Matthew E]

The way I read the Batman-vote thing is that Superman and Wonder Woman are worried about whether Batman, with his Brother-Eye-inventing history, can realistically be a member of this League. If the vote revealed that they had doubts about it, they would have gone to him and said that they thought the time was not right for Batman to rejoin the League, and ask him to absent himself from membership - but not from this, this triumvirate of JLA supervisoriness that they have.

Prediction: before Meltzer's run is over, perhaps as soon as next issue, we find that Batman already knows that the two of them held this little conversation, and he doesn't mind a bit.

[Constantine Drakon]

In fact, he "didn't mind a bit" so much that he left EACH of them a present at their respective residences.

No, he's not telling what the presents are.

No, their powers won't help them find them.

They'll just have to live with the knowledge that they'll stumble across those presents one day when they least expect it and get a nice surprise.

[Rhydaman]

Well I get that... but they clearly show a picture of billy and talk about Billy as being a child and what not and how he has so much potential.....

I'm confused on the continuity right now. Anybody else with me?
They also mention that they have no idea where Billy is right now. So it would seem that the Big 3 (and probably the rest of the DCU) have no idea what's happening to the Marvels at the moment. This could easily take place during the Trials of Shazam series, which presumably will clear up what's happening the Marvels.

[nuclearman]

The pace is slow, as I am in finally getting around to reading it, and I think it will read better as a trade.

I don't mind the whole red tornado story line and I hope he stays human.. but I doubt it... I also am enjoying the big three's selection criteria.

I like how Diana wanted Firestorm in but Batman in particular thought he needs more experience. Diana says what about the power and Bats says he is not a weapon. If Firestorm wields all that power and is at a impressionable stage in his development wouldn't it be wise to have him in the Justice League so he can mentored by the best??

[skally19]

you go to the titans or jsa for that

[nuclearman]

you go to the titans or jsa for that

yep... i probably agree... point taken.:)