SHE-HULK #12 - Review & Spoilers

[Expletive Deleted]

SHE-HULK #12 - Slott & Burchett - out today . . .

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This issue brings us back to the Starfox storyline. There're some parts I liked and some parts I didn't, so I figured I'd do a list.

The Good

Phyla and Moondragon. What? They're fun characters. Burchett's art. It really fits the tone of the book a lot better than what's-his-name who did the original Starfox two-parter. The John/Jen soapiness. Always nice. The Living Tribunal. A little cheesy, but a fun use of the character. Awesome Andy . . . awwwwwwww. Poor fella. Pip. Heh. RT's "impartial" bit. Thanos's reaction to Phyla calling herself Captain Marvel. The story of Lil' Thanos. Burchett really rocked this sequence. And it leads into a fun cliffhanger.

The Bad

Ditto's non-reaction to Stu's zapping. The Starfox-as-mental-rapist thing came off a bit better this time around, but it's still pretty icky - and not in a good way. The dig at ANNIHILATION. Not cool at all. Granted, I'm a bit biased, but that was one hell of a nasty little cheap shot considering how much work Giffen and company have been putting into Thanos's character, just for the sake of putting him back in his old duds. Especially since Moondragon's wearing her swanky new DiVito costume.

So . . . it's a good read, with some problems here and there. Anyone else read this?

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Anyone else read this?
I did, as a matter of fact... :p

It's a Part One Of Two, and they're always difficult to judge. I only have to look back at Star Trek (mostly Voyager) and think how many times the first half of a cliffhanger has left me jazzed, only to be let down with a ginormous bump in the second half (in the case of Equinox part 2, five seconds into the second half - some sort of record, I believe). But that acknowledged, I'm giving it an unvarnished thumbs-up.

I'm no Thanos expert - I'm not reading Annihilation (not that I think I'd hate it or anything, but they're all guys, so meh), so the dig went over my head, and really all I have to go on is a few issues of The End that I picked up in the bargain basement back-issue bin a while back. But I got the essentials - nutcase, destroyer, really bad guy, and the point of the matter, that giving him the impression that death is cool during his formative years was not the best of ideas. Neat parallel there, demonstrating that even when you do it with the best of intentions, messing with people's heads can be a horrible thing. The road to hell, and all that.

Though I did note that Starfox diverted questioning to his love zap on John and Jen, and away from the time he and She-Hulk did the nasty. I'm still deeply suspicious of that - back in #7 Jen put the question to him about that night specifically, and he did a runner, so I'm not at all convinced that he didn't admit to zapping Jen and John in order to not have to admit to zapping Jen earlier. Messing with people's heads without their consent, in order to do good as you see it, is bad enough - but it's still preferable to be found guilty of that, than to using the same power as a date rape drug.

Something about that last panel, though... Jen's expression, that hinted to me that she suspects something. Could it be that Starfox is being set up? The incident with mini-Thanos was evidently the truth, being in both their minds, but I wonder, did it really set Thanos on the path to all-around bastardry as he said? Or is that an exaggeration, or a misrepresentation? It'd be pretty ironic if Jen ended up defending Starfox, in the end - though seeing as that's what she was originally hired to do, maybe it'd mean she'd get paid after all.

The marriage is most definitely on the way out, if you ask me - whatever factual basis Jen and John's argument may have had, about them both having two forms and preferring one over the other, John was just arguing so he'd win the argument there, not trying to heal their relationship. Maybe he's really not able to cope with She-Hulk big and green, now the zap has left him. But in any case, the parallel he cites is on shaky ground - so far as I know, he wasn't even able to turn into Man-Wolf/Stargod up until #10 (since whenever he last did it, obviously), whereas he knew going in that Jen turned into She-Hulk and liked it. Being green full-time is a change, sure - but if you ask me, it's an order of magnitude below suddenly turning into a wolfman. Some people suggested that they might be able to patch things up, even when Eros's tough wore off - but sorry, I'm not seeing it happening.

I liked the continuity touches, re: Zix, the Magistrati, Pip and his jokes at the expense of Jen's wardrobe... Dan rewards long-term readers, that's for sure.

I'm still digging Burchett's lines, but I think Kemp needs more darkness in his colours. He worked fine with artists like Smith and Bobillo (to pick a couple I looked up a short while ago, for comparison), who drew in lots of black contrast sections in the shadows of their art, but Burchett seems to avoid those, and stick closer to the outlines, especially in the backgrounds. Without those - and with Kemp never straying far from his bright/pale palette - it looks like everything is happening in bright sunshine, and I think makes the book look a little too 'light'. In tone, that is, as well as literally. She-Hulk's a funny book, but it's also a drama, and it can have heavy, weighty moments, and right now the colouring isn't really backing that up enough, in my view. I like it more than not - the combination of gradients and cel shading is done really well - I just think it'd be all the better for more contrast.

Still, that's my only complaint, and it's a minor one compared to everything the art - colours included - does right.

And Lego rocks :D

Edit: I almost forgot, I actually liked Ditto's willingness to, reluctantly, go along with Stu's murder. He comes across as a comic character, but Ditto's got a dark side - he's a former criminal, and he's been shown before to put himself first when he's in a tight spot.

[Elegance Liberty]

Slott took a potshot at Annihilation?

Dan Slott for the LOSE.

Then again, it doesn't surprise me. Seems like everyone at Marvel who isn't involved with the event seems to love to take a crap on it. (Why else do you think it's gotten ZERO promotion from the top brass anyhow?)

Go figure.

A pity at that too, I was seriously considering picking this issue up until I read about Slott's blatant disrespect for 'Annihilation'.

[EmmettHULK]

I thought this was one of the worst She-hulk issues as of late.

Not that the previous were amazing, but it was just...dull.
The art was so-so and the writing was in my opinion, uninspired.

[Haunt]

i've really enjoyed Annihilation; surprisingly. i normally hate all things-cosmic.

[CyberCoyote]

What's the pot-shot at Annihilation? Tell me, tell me! It'll be an hour and a half before I get out of work!!!!

[Expletive Deleted]

Here y'go.

MOONDRAGON: In my travels I'd heard you'd reformed, Thanos. That you were on a path of redemption. That you wore naught but simple robes, and that you kept company with . . . a pixie.

THANOS: Heh. Really, Heather. Does that sound like me at all?

[Elegance Liberty]

Here y'go.

MOONDRAGON: In my travels I'd heard you'd reformed, Thanos. That you were on a path of redemption. That you wore naught but simple robes, and that you kept company with . . . a pixie.

THANOS: Heh. Really, Heather. Does that sound like me at all?
.... What a jerk.

Here's to hoping Giffen can get in a potshot at She-Hulk eventually. That would rock the hardcore.

[Dan_Slott]

Guys,
There is NO potshot at either ANNIHILATION or Giffen's take on Thanos in this month's SHE-HULK.

If anything, effort and care have been taken to fit this story into continuity so that it occurs AFTER Moondragon and Phyla's CM appearances and before their appearances in ANNIHILATION.

You'll notice (for example) that Heather is wearing her ANNIHILATION costume-- and Phyla is wearing her CM uniform (for the last time) before she discards it in the flashback of ANNIHILATION #2. (And, for that sake, you'll also notice that...


.
.
.
.
...Heather has both of her ears.
)



So? What does happen in SHE-HULK #12?

Thanos shows up in his classic costume, Heather is confused by this, and Thanos gives her an explanation.

Just wait an issue before you jump to more "slamming" conclusions, okay?

Geez...

For the record: I am LOVING each and every issue of ANNIHILATION-- wouldn't miss it for the world-- and not just for the cool cosmic scripts by Mr. Giffen-- but also for the pulse-pounding pencils by my THING-pal, Andrea DiVito. :)

(You'll also notice that She-Hulk herself makes ref. to the Nova Corps of Xandar in this issue-- showing that they were still around (to Shulkie's knowledge) at the top of the issue).

Trust me. It's all done out of love. ;)
ttyl
Dan

[Haunt]

Guys,
There is NO potshot at either ANNIHILATION or Giffen's take on Thanos in this month's SHE-HULK.

If anything, effort and care have been taken to fit this story into continuity so that it occurs AFTER Moondragon and Phyla's CM appearances and before their appearances in ANNIHILATION.

You'll notice (for example) that Heather is wearing her ANNIHILATION costume-- and Phyla is wearing her CM uniform (for the last time) before she discards it in the flashback of ANNIHILATION #2. (And, for that sake, you'll also notice that...


.
.
.
.
...Heather has both of her ears.




So? What does happen in SHE-HULK #12?

Thanos shows up in his classic costume, Heather is confused by this, and Thanos gives her an explanation.

Just wait an issue before you jump to more "slamming" conclusions, okay?

Geez...

For the record: I am LOVING each and every issue of ANNIHILATION-- wouldn't miss it for the world-- and not just for the cool cosmic scripts by Mr. Giffen-- but also for the pulse-pounding pencils by my THING-pal, Andrea DiVito. :)

(You'll also notice that She-Hulk herself makes ref. to the Nova Corps of Xandar in this issue-- showing that they were still around (to Shulkie's knowledge) at the top of the issue).

Trust me. It's all done out of love. ;)
ttyl
Dan

to use the spoiler function, you'll have to drop the 'ER' in both 'Spoiler' tags.

[Expletive Deleted]

I got a strong "the current version is silly and this is the real Thanos" vibe off that particular exchange (what with the costume and sidekick in question having been around since March of '04), but . . . hey, if you say it wasn't a serious dig, I'll believe you.

[static]

i didnt think it was a dig at annihilation at all ...in one post someone is pissed that its unnoticed by other books ..in the next they are pissed it WAS mentioned...Slott is both nodding to the series and making pains to make sure he dosent step on its toes...

that aside i thought this was a great issue..i love the Living Tribunal faces scene and LOVED the twist with thanos and Starfox when they were kids...Thanos FINALLY makes sense to me!!! honestly i appreciate the character a hell of a lot more now that i have an explanation for his obsession that not only fits continutiy wise but is a dramatic twist!!! The power of love leads to Death!! awesome!! i cant wait till the next issue..this was great...

btw Phyla and moondragon are the premier lesbian couple in comics...sooooo hot:)

[Haunt]

i wonder where the pixie, Skreet, went.

[Soundrave]

Guys,
There is NO potshot at either ANNIHILATION or Giffen's take on Thanos in this month's SHE-HULK.

If anything, effort and care have been taken to fit this story into continuity so that it occurs AFTER Moondragon and Phyla's CM appearances and before their appearances in ANNIHILATION.

You'll notice (for example) that Heather is wearing her ANNIHILATION costume-- and Phyla is wearing her CM uniform (for the last time) before she discards it in the flashback of ANNIHILATION #2. (And, for that sake, you'll also notice that...


.
.
.
.
...Heather has both of her ears.
)



So? What does happen in SHE-HULK #12?

Thanos shows up in his classic costume, Heather is confused by this, and Thanos gives her an explanation.

Just wait an issue before you jump to more "slamming" conclusions, okay?

Geez...

For the record: I am LOVING each and every issue of ANNIHILATION-- wouldn't miss it for the world-- and not just for the cool cosmic scripts by Mr. Giffen-- but also for the pulse-pounding pencils by my THING-pal, Andrea DiVito. :)

(You'll also notice that She-Hulk herself makes ref. to the Nova Corps of Xandar in this issue-- showing that they were still around (to Shulkie's knowledge) at the top of the issue).

Trust me. It's all done out of love. ;)
ttyl
Dan

It's amazing what some people get upset about. This guy probably puts 20 times the amount of thought and research into his scripts than most of Marvel's "superstar" creators and he still gets ragged on.

I thought it was an excellent issue. Great job, as usual!

[CyberCoyote]

Hmm, guess Slott already explained it, but I was going to point out those things. The costume she was retiring, Thanos being snyde when he said it. Stereo reception for Heather.. He's a dirty-gerty liar, ya know, toying with them :)

I really enjoyed the issue, although I'm still having to get used to the art. Wasn't a Bobo fan, wish Pelletier was on. Heck, I wish Pelletier was on everything :)

Thanos taking the opportunity to make it look like he was such a sweet and innocent little Titan until Starfox exposed him to the love of Death was just superb, the cartoony style worked wonders there as it was a childhood flashback and the style is reflective of childhood story art.

And by what we saw.. Eros DIDN'T use his love whammy on shulkie to get into her Levis, right?

[Michael P]

And by what we saw.. Eros DIDN'T use his love whammy on shulkie to get into her Levis, right?
Well, he says (indirectly) that the only time he ever used it on her was the whammy he did on her and John, and Moondragon doesn't call bullshit, so it looks like that's the case.

[Eric_Carnaby]

.... What a jerk.

Here's to hoping Giffen can get in a potshot at She-Hulk eventually. That would rock the hardcore.


Potshot or not, She-hulk is not a very good book.

And besides, Slott is getting famous for having a thin skin when it comes to critics...
Several times he has engaged his detractors in petty squabbles over how good/bad his books are/aren't.

[static]

wow i thought he was just politely explaining a plot point in the book...i appreciated hearing his explaination and didnt think it was a "petty squabble" at all...how cool is it to have the writer of a book engage in some give and take about a comic!! dont discourge this kind of dialouge by lumping it in with John Byrne-like antics...Slott has always been a gentelman on this board and i hope he keeps coming back to disscuss his work...

[CyberCoyote]

Potshot or not, She-hulk is not a very good book.

And besides, Slott is getting famous for having a thin skin when it comes to critics...
Several times he has engaged his detractors in petty squabbles over how good/bad his books are/aren't.


Wow, I think it's a great book, one of the best put out today.

Dan'll get defensive, I think it's because he puts so much time and effort into making everything just right and has a lot of pride in his work. Better to know he hears the voice of his critics than to totally ignore them and consider them 'six internet geeks' :)

[Eric_Carnaby]

wow i thought he was just politely explaining a plot point in the book...i appreciated hearing his explaination and didnt think it was a "petty squabble" at all...

In other boards, Slott has indeed engaged detractors in circular "battles" of he said/he said, with arguments akin to "my book is good because critics and pros say so" and "if you don't like the book, your opinion doesn't matter cuz you are just a fan, not a pro"

That's almost as ridiculous as saying "She-Hulk is a bad book cuz it sells poorly"


Dan'll get defensive, I think it's because he puts so much time and effort into making everything just right and has a lot of pride in his work. )

Every writer puts thought and effort into what they write, I bet.
But not every writer challenges every detractor's opinion, and gets super-defensive like Slott does...

[static]

it sounds like your the only one getting defensive lol

lets get off this and back to the book! what did everyone else think of the Thanos /Starfox story at the end? i loved it!!!!

[tjarvis]

In other boards, Slott has indeed engaged detractors in circular "battles" of he said/he said, with arguments akin to "my book is good because critics and pros say so" and "if you don't like the book, your opinion doesn't matter cuz you are just a fan, not a pro"

That's almost as ridiculous as saying "She-Hulk is a bad book cuz it sells poorly"



Every writer puts thought and effort into what they write, I bet.
But not every writer challenges every detractor's opinion, and gets super-defensive like Slott does...

And you're taking the time to come here and bash on a pro writer who is actually decent enough to come and talk with the fans and answer the questions adds what to the conversation exactly?

[Expletive Deleted]

Guys . . . talk about the comic book.

Thanks.

[CyberCoyote]

Hehe.. and onto the comic book..

There IS a slam in there, kinda. After Zix tells Ditto to replace Stu, Ditto says looking like him is one thing, but, but Stu knew all the continuity and characters, he doesn't know squat.

Zix replies, "With the way comics are written today that shouldn't be a problem." Bravo :)

[Wessner]

Well, he says (indirectly) that the only time he ever used it on her was the whammy he did on her and John, and Moondragon doesn't call bullshit, so it looks like that's the case.

Actually, Starfox's response does not indicate that the zapping of Jen and John was the only time, so the issue of whether he's zapped Jen before is still unresolved. I hope that it will be next issue.

[Joe Acro]

Zix replies, "With the way comics are written today that shouldn't be a problem." Bravo :)
And that's the problem with today's comics. Go, Slott!

In any case, I guess I reserve an opinion on the Annihilation stuff until next issue. I was a bit hasty in the other thread, not knowing this is a two-parter. Slott has guaranteed that the story works with continuity, so I'll hold him to it.

[Jack]

And that's the problem with today's comics. Go, Slott!

In any case, I guess I reserve an opinion on the Annihilation stuff until next issue. I was a bit hasty in the other thread, not knowing this is a two-parter. Slott has guaranteed that the story works with continuity, so I'll hold him to it.
That's my thought too.

[ducklord]

Every now and then it's good to be a bit of a shared universe junkie.

The cliffhanger reveal at the end of She-Hulk #12 was one of those moments.

Whether Thanos's testimony turns out to be true or not, I have to salute the cleverness of any writer who can take two well-established, deeply-connected characters like Thanos and Starfox, and come up with a cool-but-forehead-slappingly-obvious twist to their relationship.

Mike

[Schmakt]

I was starting to get a little down on She-Hulk recently... but this helped bring me back around. Thanks, Dan. :)

I'm still not a really huge fan of the art, and I still can't believe that I'm actually *liking* She-Hulk as a character... but this issue was a breath of fresh air. Shulkie has been teetering on the edge of being dropped for a while as it just seemed to have lost some of the spark of the first 12 issues. But this brings it back and helps actually make a few of the previous issues better as well. So... yeah. Thanks. I'm looking forward to She-Hulk again. I DEFINITELY can't wait to see what happens with Thanos/Starfox.

Also... I haven't been reading any Annihilation, so I didn't really get any of those bits of potential problems with continuity... last thing I knew about Thanos was at the end of his solo series. (which I dearly wish had kept going with Starlin :()

Anyway... that's neither here nor there. Good book! :)

[Nevets F]

I was thinking Thanos will turn out to be a Thanosi.....Otherwise, it was good to see Heather and Phyla. And Pip.

[Hatut Zeraze]

I was floored by the twist in the Starfox/Thanos relationship.

Last night, just after reading it, I started threads on 3 different boards talking about what a HUGE revelation this is.

It's probably no surprise, but there is almost nothing about this being discussed on the Marvel boards right now.

As of now, it's official. Dan Slott is my favorite writer of mainstream superhero comics. Nobody's doing it better than he is.

[Zero Hunter]

I flipped through it at the store and put it back. I hate that Starfox has been wrecked as character, and I relly don't want anyone retconing in any reasons for Thanos being evil. He just is and always has been. It takes away from Thanos to suddenly say that "it is my brothers fault that I am the way I am".

She Hulk has been a real disapointment since the relaunch. Even if it turns out that this whole storyline has been a big lie I still am done with the book. It just isn't as good as the first run was.

[jadegiant77]

I was reading the return of Thanos trade a few months back(the one that leads into Infinity Gauntlet) and they showed a picture of Thanos as a baby and child. AWW, who's my cute widdle Thanos? Yes, you are! Yes, you are! I could just pinch yuir little cheeks..

*ahem*
...sorry. How did someone who started out so cute get to be so evil???

Back to Shulkie...I hate this Man-Wolf /Stargod Marriage, and I want it to go away. I knew that quickie wedding was Eros' doing. Is it just me or does it look like Jen is doing the "Wonder Whirl" as she changes into her Magistrati robes?

[Kaskratiski]

Sometimes I adore this book, other times I despise it.
Especially when it turns into an annoyingly melodramatic mishmash of flat puns, soapish twists and badly conceived jokes.

I also hate when evil characters are given stupid "reasons" for their evil... and I hate how Starfox has been turned into a crap character.

As for the art, this book still hasn't had a decent artist...

[unkiedev]

Sometimes I adore this book, other times I despise it.
Especially when it turns into an annoyingly melodramatic mishmash of flat puns, soapish twists and badly conceived jokes.

I also hate when evil characters are given stupid "reasons" for their evil... and I hate how Starfox has been turned into a crap character.

As for the art, this book still hasn't had a decent artist...
Starfox always was a crap character. He has Quicksilvers hair only red and is an intergalactic date rapist. He's pretty creepy, really.

I Think the Shulkie book is a great side dish to the marvel universe. If Civil War is yer meat and potatoes, Shulkie is the side of pie. Always something funny, always fitting well into continuity, heck, bending over backwards to work in other people's continuity.

Keep up the great work, Shulkie team!

[Sean Walsh]

As for the art, this book still hasn't had a decent artist...

Paul Pelletier.......Rick Burchett?! These are great artists!

Even Juan Bobillo did good. And before SHE-HULK, I did not like his art at all.

[Sheldon]

Little Thanos looked really happy & cute.

[StoneGold]

*ahem*
...sorry. How did someone who started out so cute get to be so evil???

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/bellsouth/Groups/157/157464/folders/239638/1877981baby.hitler.jpg


Seriously though, this just goes to show that even a character that no one really likes can suddenly become someone's favorite when you poke them with a stick. C'mon, if there was a Starfox series, can you honestly say you would have bought it based on the character alone?

[Joe Acro]

Starfox always was a crap character. He has Quicksilvers hair only red and is an intergalactic date rapist. He's pretty creepy, really.

You do know he hasn't always been like that, right? Sure, the hair is pretty much constant, but the use of his powers to have sex with pretty much every woman in sight is a new development. He hasn't been a crap character. He may still not be a crap character. Now he's as much a crap character as one on drugs.

[static]

i gotta disagree that Starfox has ALWAYS been shown as a romeo ...every damn time you see him he is hitting on someone...Wizard showed some moments from his history a while back and he was shown in dozens of different comics putting his mack on even in the heat of battle!! he is and has always been a lothario...its the essential nature of the character!! its the only damn thing that made him passibly interesting! without the Romeo factor he is lame as hell!!! He isnt a date rapist in the sense that he dosent use his power in malice...he is a Titan eternal..essentially a godlike being...Eros the god of love...his emoting his whammy on chicks is like neptune breathing underwater or appollo running fast...its what he does...he spreads love and not in a creepy against your will way...its not like the purple man ...if a guy is just superhumanly charming (like myself :)) is it wrong for him to just be himself and do what he does...

this arc isnt ruining Starfox...before this he was damn near on the back of a milk carton...i think the trial is going to absolve him of "daterape" and show he isnt as bad as is being presumed...

[Michael P]

Little Thanos looked really happy & cute.
And it's even more disturbing than his usual demeanor, isn't it.

As for Starfox, Roger Stern wrote him as a playa as recently as Avengers Infinity.

[Joe Acro]

i gotta disagree that Starfox has ALWAYS been shown as a romeo ...every damn time you see him he is hitting on someone...Wizard showed some moments from his history a while back and he was shown in dozens of different comics putting his mack on even in the heat of battle!! he is and has always been a lothario...its the essential nature of the character!! its the only damn thing that made him passibly interesting! without the Romeo factor he is lame as hell!!! He isnt a date rapist in the sense that he dosent use his power in malice...he is a Titan eternal..essentially a godlike being...Eros the god of love...his emoting his whammy on chicks is like neptune breathing underwater or appollo running fast...its what he does...he spreads love and not in a creepy against your will way...its not like the purple man ...if a guy is just superhumanly charming (like myself :)) is it wrong for him to just be himself and do what he does...

this arc isnt ruining Starfox...before this he was damn near on the back of a milk carton...i think the trial is going to absolve him of "daterape" and show he isnt as bad as is being presumed...
I'm not sure whether it's ruining Starfox or not. Sure, he's always been portrayed as a Cupid version of the Psycho Pirate, but he was never potrayed (probably due to the simplicity and light-heartedness of the time) as lulling women to have sex with him. I know it's not much of a stretch to go from point A to point B. However, I'm not sure that stretch needed to be made.

[static]

did you think up to this point that he was seducing women so he could give em a big ole kiss and run away lol...

btw sex isnt exactly a horrible act...its my favorite pastime ...:) this all seems predicated on the assumption that sex is some taboo act that cant be preformed without some inherent guilt or scorn..so Starfox uses his natural charm to have sex with women...i try it all the time! whats so damn wrong with trying to do the best possible act on Earth! ever wonder why sex feels so good?? cuz who ever created the universe wants you to do it as much as possible!! go STARFOX!

i am betting he will be exonerated at this trial and shown to have no malice only love love love baby!

btw i find it hard for Shehulkie to be so conflicted over sleeping with starfox..this broad slept with the freaking Juggernaught...

[Joe Acro]

did you think up to this point that he was seducing women so he could give em a big ole kiss and run away lol...

Well, no. I just thought he got his kicks from flirting. Though, the fact that he was having sex all the time might explain why he was never sad...

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

i am betting he will be exonerated at this trial and shown to have no malice only love love love baby!

btw i find it hard for Shehulkie to be so conflicted over sleeping with starfox..this broad slept with the freaking Juggernaught...
It was still her choice to do so, no matter how much she may regret it (or deny it ever happened). If it's shown Starfox used his zap on her to get her into bed - and there's some evidence for that, though it's still not conclusively proven either way - it doesn't matter how inclined she may have been to agree in any case, or whether his intentions were good or not. If he used his power, he forced her, end of story.

[StoneGold]

What this really is is that Starfox always kind of had a creepy power, it was just rarely pointed out. It's like the whole Ms. Marvel/Marcus thing. It wasn't intended as some bizarre creepy rape thing. OK, granted, it's still really creepy, because she married the dude she just gave birth to, but I doubt anyone was thinking rape, till Claremont wrote the annual.

It's the same deal here. Let's face it, Starfox's power is to get him some. Now, the real question here should be is that actually wrong? George Clooney pretty much has that power, no one is accusing him of rape. Or if they did, he managed to hush it up pretty quick.

But so far, all anyone has done is accuse an alien being of something that comes to him completely naturally, without any malice or anything. Could it be interpreted as rape? Yeah, I guess.



But let's face it, the Thanos scene is so slap the forehead "I can't believe anyone never thought of that before!" brilliant. I know the Starfox as American Psycho thing has been proposed before. I don't think I've heard anywhere that he accidentally turned Thanos into a death worshiper. Just brilliant.

[StoneGold]

If he used his power, he forced her, end of story.
Like I said earlier, it depends on how you want to use the term force. It's not like Eros is using direct mind control. He just stimulates the hormones. Hell, they sell perfumes and colognes that are supposedly weaker versions of Eros' whammy. If I put on sheep musk, am I a rapist?

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Like I said earlier, it depends on how you want to use the term force. It's not like Eros is using direct mind control. He just stimulates the hormones.
Well that's essentially a date-rape drug. Of course being physically attractive, wearing perfume, dressing sexy and/or being Amber Benson can influence a person's opinion, but even though there's degrees of effect, I think it's pretty clear that what Starfox does is affecting the subject's ability to choose for themselves. It violates a standard that we hold to be sacrosanct.

It's definitely something he does consciously in its most pronounced form - prior issues have shown him deliberately putting the zap on that Hydra guy, and on Matt Hawk and his prison guard when he escaped, and he tried it on Zix. I don't think it's been established yet that he's got a 'pleasure field' that he can't turn off - we've seen people in his presence defying him, up until he deliberately uses his power.

[StoneGold]

Well that's essentially a date-rape drug. Of course being physically attractive, wearing perfume, dressing sexy and/or being Amber Benson can influence a person's opinion, but even though there's degrees of effect, I think it's pretty clear that what Starfox does is affecting the subject's ability to choose for themselves. It violates a standard that we hold to be sacrosanct.

Except there is a big difference between dropping a drug in someone's drink and turning on the sexy. At the very least, in the real world, Starfox would have nothing to worry about, as there is no law against using powers to stimulate hormones. And while Eros does have the big whammy, I believe he also has a lower level whammy that isn't controllable. That's how he's been shown before, anyways. Because he has gotten scores of random alien women with no effort without any starburst effect or anything.

In any case, is using his powers all that different from turning on the charm?

You see, this is how Eros' case should have been argued. Not that he didn't do this stuff. Obviously he did. Go back and read the old stories with a critical eye. It's all there. The question should have been if what he did was actually illegal or not.

[Wessner]

As the Weird Romance soap opera arc that began in issue #6 enters its final stage, the story revisits situations from the first issue to see how Starfox's actions have changed things.

Awesome Andy has once again been rejected by Mallory, but this time he's taking it much harder. Given Two-Gun's expression of concern, I won't be surprised if he plays a role in Andy's upcoming story. Andy has further to fall before he can pick himself up, I'm afraid.

Jen and John are back to arguing over human vs superhuman preferences, but now they both have the same apparent prejudice regarding the other's alternate form. Hopefully their relationship can proceed or end naturally without outside interference. Although it looks bad now, I still think they'll pull through, mainly because having some tension and conflict in a relationship provides more fodder for future stories. I've been wondering why the story needed these two to marry since nothing we've seen so far couldn't have been done with a simple engagement instead. But we get a possible hint here - ending a marriage is harder than walking away from an informal relationship. It gives these two more incentive to work things out rather than just bailing at the first sign of trouble. (Of course, if they do break up I'll be the first to say I was wrong.)

The Zix/Z9 scenes are fun, creepy and set up quite a few possible future story developments with different characters. Ditto seems to realize he's in over his head now, so it'll be interesting to see what action he takes.

But it's Starfox and his guilt or innocence that takes the spotlight once more. In courtroom drama tradition we learn more about him through the testimony and views of others. Mentor, Pip and She-Hulk certainly believe their testimony, but their memories and perceptions may not reflect reality very well. So far the trial hasn't produced any objective evidence about Starfox's actions and that may be the key to his eventual fate. Starfox admits to using his powers on a friend without their consent or knowledge. That's serious, but it doesn't prove the seduction accusation.

And there's Thanos. His appearance at the trial is awfully convenient and She-Hulk is obviously suspicious of his testimony. But Thanos's actions do accomplish something none of the other testimony in this trial or the previous one on Earth did - it makes Starfox a sympathetic character.

Ultimately the Living Tribunal's lecture to Jennifer about the nature of justice is likely to be the deciding factor, not just in Starfox's case but in Jen's own life. Since deciding to remain She-Hulk 24/7 she's come across as very selfish, putting her wants ahead of everyone else's. But in this issue we saw her dedication to law when she decided to accompany Z9, and that may help her to regain her balance.

I'm really enjoying Rick Burchett's art, but in this issue the proporations of some characters seemed inconsistent. The size of heads and hands on She-Hulk, Thanos and Man-Wolf varied quite a bit from panel to panel, which was distracting. But overall the clean lines and layout are very strong.

[Mr.Musgrave]

The question should have been if what he did was actually illegal or not.

Being charming and using a super-power that stimulates hormones is not the same thing.

[Haunt]

Except there is a big difference between dropping a drug in someone's drink and turning on the sexy. At the very least, in the real world, Starfox would have nothing to worry about, as there is no law against using powers to stimulate hormones. And while Eros does have the big whammy, I believe he also has a lower level whammy that isn't controllable. That's how he's been shown before, anyways. Because he has gotten scores of random alien women with no effort without any starburst effect or anything.

In any case, is using his powers all that different from turning on the charm?
.

it is if the people he uses the whammy on are compelled to do something against their will. you can be charmed by someone and still not want to have sex. Starfox is no better than the mutant villain Empath.

[Zero Hunter]

But the thing is Starfox was never shown to use his powers like this before Slott got ahold of him and tuned him into daterape man. Whenever he used that power before it was very plain that he was using it. Before he was just a womenizer who was a very smooth and charming being. Now he is date rape man. It will more than likely be his permant character trait from now on, just like Hank Pym is now considered a permant wife beater for hitting his wife one time in the middle of a nervous breakdown.

That is why I hate what Slott has done to the character.

[Dermie]

But the thing is Starfox was never shown to use his powers like this before Slott got ahold of him and tuned him into daterape man. Whenever he used that power before it was very plain that he was using it. Before he was just a womenizer who was a very smooth and charming being. Now he is date rape man. It will more than likely be his permant character trait from now on, just like Hank Pym is now considered a permant wife beater for hitting his wife one time in the middle of a nervous breakdown.

That is why I hate what Slott has done to the character.

Let's wait until the storyline is over, and we actually have confirmation that he is guilty of date rape, before we complain about it being a new permanent character trait.

[StoneGold]

Being charming and using a super-power that stimulates hormones is not the same thing.
Is it really? Both are stimulating hormones, without altering anything chemically or anything.

[StoneGold]

But the thing is Starfox was never shown to use his powers like this before Slott got ahold of him and tuned him into daterape man. Whenever he used that power before it was very plain that he was using it. Before he was just a womenizer who was a very smooth and charming being. Now he is date rape man. It will more than likely be his permant character trait from now on, just like Hank Pym is now considered a permant wife beater for hitting his wife one time in the middle of a nervous breakdown.

That is why I hate what Slott has done to the character.
So what you're saying is, here is a character who gets laid constantly, who actually has a superpower to get laid constantly, but you're saying he never actually used that superpower to get laid constantly to get laid constantly. Is that what you are saying?

[bugmenot]

Trust me. It's all done out of love. ;)
Sure, that's what they all say.
Been hanging around Starfox lately, I take it?
When is "Dan Slott's Guide to True Wuv and Mawiage" coming out?

[stealthwise]

This storyline is boring me to death. I really like She-Hulk for the most part, but the last half year or so has been painful to read. Very little humour (outside of the hilarious JJJ flipout), and it's obvious this title is becoming too engrossed with its own continuity. I much preferred the first six issues of the first run of the title, where the stories were a bit more self-contained.

[Annie get your Rum]

This storyline is boring me to death. I really like She-Hulk for the most part, but the last half year or so has been painful to read. Very little humour (outside of the hilarious JJJ flipout), and it's obvious this title is becoming too engrossed with its own continuity.


I always thought this title was too cute for its own good...too in love with its own "cleverness"...to the point of being annoying.
But above all, I agree it is boring as hell.

[Mark (nonick)]

But the thing is Starfox was never shown to use his powers like this before Slott got ahold of him and tuned him into daterape man. Whenever he used that power before it was very plain that he was using it. Before he was just a womenizer who was a very smooth and charming being. Now he is date rape man.

That is why I hate what Slott has done to the character.But really, this is a very small leap to make for the character. So a guy who is super-popular, charming, and able to make time with all the ladies - ALSO - has the power to influence people's attraction to him.

It's harder for me to believe that he doesn't use his power this way than it is to believe he does.

[Lex]

My first reaction to this issue was "Wow, Thanos is a huge dick!" I know he's evil, but he pretty much screwed over his brother there. Dang.

Very good issue. I loved seeing Jen doing cosmic lawyering again. The Living Tribunal scene was really cool. I'm liking this story. I have a strong feeling that Starfox will be found innocent of the charges against him.
I got a strong "the current version is silly and this is the real Thanos" vibe off that particular exchange (what with the costume and sidekick in question having been around since March of '04), but . . . hey, if you say it wasn't a serious dig, I'll believe you.When I read that I just saw it for what it was. A joke. I know "fun" has become an endangered concept in comics, but I didn't realize it was unrecognizable.

I flipped through it at the store and put it back. I hate that Starfox has been wrecked as character, and I relly don't want anyone retconing in any reasons for Thanos being evil. He just is and always has been. It takes away from Thanos to suddenly say that "it is my brothers fault that I am the way I am".Oh c'mon! Do you seriously think Thanos isn't setting this up to destroy Starfox? Wait to see how the story plays out before throwing around words like "retcon."

[Just_A_Rat]

But really, this is a very small leap to make for the character. So a guy who is super-popular, charming, and able to make time with all the ladies - ALSO - has the power to influence people's attraction to him.

It's harder for me to believe that he doesn't use his power this way than it is to believe he does.

Actually, that was exactly the way he has always been written. He is a charming person. People like him. Especially the ladies, but men as well. And, when he turns on his power, he stimulates the pleasure centers of people's brains, making them more muggestable.

He has also typically been portrayed as having something of a sense of honor. I do hope he does not come out of this as a date rapist. Eros seems to me to be the type who would say "what value has love if it is not freely given?"

[Mr.Musgrave]

without altering anything chemically or anything.

Yeah, except that's EXACTLY what it's doing.

[CMBMOOL]

I couldn't believe that Starfox is to blame for Infinite Gems saga, all for influencing Thanos into worshiping death. :eek:

There has got to be a resaon behind the testimony of Thanos ? :confused:

What is there for him to gain over the Titans especially Starfox ? :(

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

There has got to be a resaon behind the testimony of Thanos ? :confused:
I'm in no doubt at all that there is; look at Jen's face in the last panel, she's suspicious as all hell of what's going on.

[XPac]

Hmmm... I'm not sure about this issue. Something about it sort of left a bad taste in my mouth. I suppose there's a bit of a balancing act when you're mixing light hearted humor with storylines concerning possible rape. I found past issues did a much better job of it for me personally than this one.

Ah well... maybe the next one will be more to my liking.

[Den]

Finally got my subscription in the mail (sheesh, at least it doesn't take as long as DC, but man, that's depressing to wait) and I enjoyed it.

I'm actually a minor fan of Starfox back from his Avengers days, so I surely don't want him changed to a walking date rape drug, but I'll see this through to the end. Thanos showing up so 'convienently' smells like a scheme to me, and I hope by next issue all is revealed.

[MatthewC]

I couldn't believe that Starfox is to blame for Infinite Gems saga, all for influencing Thanos into worshiping death.

Even if everything Thanos said is 100% truth, how much does that really condemn Starfox?

Thanos still made his own choices in life. Rather than take Starfox's message of accepting death as a part of life at face value, he chose to twist it into a weird death fetish.

[Den]

Even if everything Thanos said is 100% truth, how much does that really condemn Starfox?

Thanos still made his own choices in life. Rather than take Starfox's message of accepting death as a part of life at face value, he chose to twist it into a weird death fetish.

That's a good point. Starfox's power is, as Pug explained earlier, temporary IIRC. That means the infatuation with Death should have faded to sane levels after. Starfox's power may have been the catalyst, but Thanos is the one who has kept the obsession going of his own free will.