Will Carrie Kelly ever become Robin?

[colossus34]

Just wondering if anyone thinks Carrie Kelly from Dark Knight Returns will ever make an appearence in regular continuity or ever take up the Robin mantle? Would this be a good thing? Should she be related to Steph or Grayson or Todd etc? How would you make her work IF at all?

[Fish Sauce]

I think she actually became Robin within the pages of DKR, so it's unlikely that she'll take it up within regular continuity due to the sheer amount of confusion. If she were to turn up it would seem as though DKR was being accepted as the inevitable outcome, which I doubt they would want, and even then it wouldn't make much sense as she becomes Robin in the story.

Just my two cents.

[Pól Rua]

Just wondering if anyone thinks Carrie Kelly from Dark Knight Returns will ever make an appearence in regular continuity or ever take up the Robin mantle? Would this be a good thing? Should she be related to Steph or Grayson or Todd etc? How would you make her work IF at all?

Of course she will. Because pretty much everyone writing superhero comics seems incapable of doing anything except strip-mining the past for ideas.

[jam37wcc]

Of course she will. Because pretty much everyone writing superhero comics seems incapable of doing anything except strip-mining the past for ideas.

Yeah, basically someone will come up say I have this idea someone else will say sounds good lets publish it, then your stuck with it, kind of like Jason Todd. I'm not against is return but I am against how it happened and what they have done with him since.

[Lorendiac]

Carrie Kelly lived roughly 20 years in the future, in a world where Bruce Wayne was 55. She was a teenager, so she shouldn't even be alive yet in "modern DCU continuity."

I could live with the idea of having her birth occur as part of a Batman story, someday. I would not want to write that story myself. I would not feel that it was a stunning achievement if such a story were published. But I wouldn't necessarily scream bloody murder either. Ideally, a writer would do that story and reveal at the end that the surname of the expectant parents (who had been rescued from dire peril by Batman) was Kelly, and then he'd have the mother say in the final page, "I think we'll name her Carrie!" in an effort to show us How Frightfully Clever he was to contrive such a sneaky Surprise Ending!

Then, having gotten that out of his system, hopefully neither that writer nor any other Batman writer would ever write a story featuring Baby Carrie Kelly again, and those who didn't like the way that story had turned out could simply blot it out of their minds and pretend it never happened! :)

[colossus34]

Then, having gotten that out of his system, hopefully neither that writer nor any other Batman writer would ever write a story featuring Baby Carrie Kelly again, and those who didn't like the way that story had turned out could simply blot it out of their minds and pretend it never happened! :)

That would be a cool way to introduce the Kelly family somehow into current continuity. Maybe Carrie's father works for Bruce and ends up becoming a confidant or something.

I forgot about the massive age difference between DKR but I wouldn't be apposed to a young or teenage Carrie being introduced as a protege of Tim Drake or hell maybe Todd decides he needs a Robin and takes in an orphan much like himself. Of course, Bruce finds out and decides to step in and stop him or something.

I don't know why but I just LOVE the character of Carrie Kelly:D

[the goddamn batman]

Carries parents were pot smoking losers who didn't even notice she was gone until the next issue... it's like you guys don't even read the books sometimes.;)

And honestly, I don't see Carrie as Robin in continuity anytime soon, or really, ever. At least I hope not, I'd rather DKR doesn't become continuity, and besides, all her stories have been told in Franks books.

[Frankie Dennis]

I really don't think Kelly is such a great character, I mean she's okay, but I don't really see anything "special" about her.

I hope this doesn't happen.

[The Xenos]

Yeah. I'm not quite getting this. We have Carrie being Robin in Dark Knight Returns. What more do you want? It's there. Leave it alone.

The current Bat books are doing their thing. Why force Miller's vision on them? Plus nevermind that she becomes Catgirl in the sequel and I'm gonna keep pretending that it's (spoiler) Jason and not Dick who appears at the end of the book. Otherwise the sequel and the Dark Knight Returns series sucked.

[carabas]

Yeah, basically someone will come up say I have this idea someone else will say sounds good lets publish it, then your stuck with it, kind of like Jason Todd. I'm not against is return but I am against how it happened and what they have done with him since.

To be fair, if DC hadn't gotten cold feet at the very last moment about killing Dick Grayson, Jason Todd would be the only Nightwing, have his own book, as well as lead the Outsiders.

[OverMaster]

Actually, Carrie is my favorite of all the Robins. She is the only one who, for me, has never either reeked of the 'Useless Hostage' syndrome or the 'Little Know it All' Mary Sue characterization instead.

Maybe in ten or fifteen years from now on.

[jerrymcl89]

Since Tim Drake did not exist when DKR was written, and doesn't seem to exist in either Dark Knight volume, I'd tend to see that as an entirely separate continuity. Although I did notice that Carrie's was one of the gravestones in Geoff Johns's Titans of Tomorrow arc.

[karaokefanboy]

Yes, Carrie will become Robin, and in fact, some writer will imply that Batman had planned it that way all along. Further, not only did Father Kelly work for Wayne Industries, as a fellow post suggested, but Bruce himself introduced the parents to each other, and then to marijuana, so their eventual neglegence inadvertantly creates the opportunity for Batman to "adopt" her. Carrie will find all of this out on her own and go rogue for a few issues before she mercifully forgives Bruce for his tragic inability to relate to the people he loves, and they will live happily ever after . . . until the Kellys, in a secret attempt to sell their daughter to the streets for pot money, try to win Carrie back, a tale which will be featured in a year-long maxi-crossover called "Sidekick Crisis." And yes, before you even ask, "SC" will reveal that Speedy is Carrie's cousin, and that drug abuse actually runs rampant in her family. Torn between her two worlds, she'll fight Crazy Quilt and surprisingly die, because by then Frank will get his wits about him and sue DC for retention of his creative properties. Pretty weird, huh? I read about it all in "Wizard."

Of course, I'm being silly.







Or am I?

[Slortex]

Yes, Carrie will become Robin, and in fact, some writer will imply that Batman had planned it that way all along. Further, not only did Father Kelly work for Wayne Industries, as a fellow post suggested, but Bruce himself introduced the parents to each other, and then to marijuana, so their eventual neglegence inadvertantly creates the opportunity for Batman to "adopt" her. Carrie will find all of this out on her own and go rogue for a few issues before she mercifully forgives Bruce for his tragic inability to relate to the people he loves, and they will live happily ever after . . . until the Kellys, in a secret attempt to sell their daughter to the streets for pot money, try to win Carrie back, a tale which will be featured in a year-long maxi-crossover called "Sidekick Crisis." And yes, before you even ask, "SC" will reveal that Speedy is Carrie's cousin, and that drug abuse actually runs rampant in her family. Torn between her two worlds, she'll fight Crazy Quilt and surprisingly die, because by then Frank will get his wits about him and sue DC for retention of his creative properties. Pretty weird, huh? I read about it all in "Wizard."

Of course, I'm being silly.







Or am I?

this post needs to be deleted before dido or winick see it

[Kara Zor El]

I think she looks cuter as Catgirl. But I don't think she should become part of continuity unless she travels back from the future as Catgirl to save Robin or something and doesn't reveal who she is to the characters.

[Tman2135]

Carrie Kelly will become Robin when Terry McGinnis becomes Batman (in the regular continuity of course) ;)

[Sparda]

Personally I want Terry Mcguiness into continuity. I just loved batman beyond so much that I would pay for his own ongoing series into continuity as a Bruce wayne clone.

[Person Man]

It'd be a nightmare to write a Batman Beyond ongoing, though. Maybe a miniseries? I'm sure some writer would want a crack at it, as Terry never got much of a rogues gallery in the series, but the series would have some nasty power over "current" continuity. If something weird, like Incest Midget Billy Batson from the infamous Alan Moore "Twilight" proposal showed up, writers on other books would be none-too-thrilled.

[Young Avenger]

Yes, Carrie will become Robin, and in fact, some writer will imply that Batman had planned it that way all along. Further, not only did Father Kelly work for Wayne Industries, as a fellow post suggested, but Bruce himself introduced the parents to each other, and then to marijuana, so their eventual neglegence inadvertantly creates the opportunity for Batman to "adopt" her. Carrie will find all of this out on her own and go rogue for a few issues before she mercifully forgives Bruce for his tragic inability to relate to the people he loves, and they will live happily ever after . . . until the Kellys, in a secret attempt to sell their daughter to the streets for pot money, try to win Carrie back, a tale which will be featured in a year-long maxi-crossover called "Sidekick Crisis." And yes, before you even ask, "SC" will reveal that Speedy is Carrie's cousin, and that drug abuse actually runs rampant in her family. Torn between her two worlds, she'll fight Crazy Quilt and surprisingly die, because by then Frank will get his wits about him and sue DC for retention of his creative properties. Pretty weird, huh? I read about it all in "Wizard."

Of course, I'm being silly.







Or am I?


Don't give DC these ideas. They might use them

[carabas]

Cary Kelly was Robin when Batman was in his 50s.
Terry McGinnis was Batman when Bruce was in his 60s.

So I don't think it's possible that either of them has even been born in regular continuity.

[Kara Zor El]

Cary Kelly was Robin when Batman was in his 50s.
Terry McGinnis was Batman when Bruce was in his 60s.

So I don't think it's possible that either of them has even been born in regular continuity.

I thought Bruce was in his 70's or 80's in Beyond?

[Young Avenger]

Cary Kelly was Robin when Batman was in his 50s.
Terry McGinnis was Batman when Bruce was in his 60s.

So I don't think it's possible that either of them has even been born in regular continuity.

Didn't Terry make an appearance in Superman/Batman?

[KYTouchMassage]

Didn't Terry make an appearance in Superman/Batman?

Yeah, splash page, issue #22. He thinks Bizarro is the Joker or something stupid like that. Especially so, considering he's wearing a SUPERMAN OUTFIT.

[El Santo]

Am I the only person who hates Terry? I hate broken down Bruce Wayne, I hate his Mary Sue replacement, and I hate the deus ex machina that made them actual relatives. And Tim Drake becoming the Joker is just the height of retarded. Who wrote this crap?

[xnef1025]

Am I the only person who hates Terry? I hate broken down Bruce Wayne, I hate his Mary Sue replacement, and I hate the deus ex machina that made them actual relatives. And Tim Drake becoming the Joker is just the height of retarded. Who wrote this crap?
Can the main character of the series even be a Mary Sue? I mean, if that were the case than current continuity Batman is the biggest Mary Sue ever.

[Lorendiac]

Can the main character of the series even be a Mary Sue? I mean, if that were the case than current continuity Batman is the biggest Mary Sue ever.

I admit that normally the term "Mary Sue" would be a name for a new character being shoehorned into the existing continuity of another character (or cast of characters) who had been developed by other writers in the past -- as when a female character in fanfic meets the cast of the original Star Trek series and gets everyone to fall madly in love with her and to gape in awe whenever she brilliantly does something that Spock, Kirk and McCoy never would have been able to do for themselves because they have such second-rate intellects and educations compared to Mary Sue's! -- but I think it ought to be possible for the term to also stretch to what can happen when Writer B replaces Writer A on a particular character in a comic book title and drastically changes the central hero's own characterization.

[El Santo]

Can the main character of the series even be a Mary Sue? I mean, if that were the case than current continuity Batman is the biggest Mary Sue ever.
It's not really his story. Terry Mcwhatever wouldn't be anything without the Batman mythos behind him. Somebody just decided they'd rather put some emo kid in a pointy-eared costume and call it Batman. Terry isn't Batman, he's some dude in a crappy rip-off of Black Panther's costume who thinks he's Iron Man and wants to call himself Batman. He fights crappy fascimiles of Batman villains, and his only existence is in an overrated, now-defunct cartoon show and what is probably the worst DC comic series in existence (Superman/Batman).

I'll say it again: To hell with Terry McGinness. Eff him, eff the Tim Drake Joker (seriously, if you hated Tim Drake that much, just kill him. Why rape him like that?), eff broken-down has-been Bruce Wayne, and everything else about that crappy series. It's Batman for the freaking MySpace generation, who don't deserve a Batman of their own.

[malephoenix]

Batman Beyond was a great addition to the Timmverse and the story and villians were some of my favorite ever. Incredible stuff; I understand why some don't like it, just like I understand why some people actually like Chuck Austen's writing, or Chris Bachalo's current art direction. But make mine Batman Beyond!

[David Atkins]

Cary Kelly was Robin when Batman was in his 50s.
Terry McGinnis was Batman when Bruce was in his 60s.

So I don't think it's possible that either of them has even been born in regular continuity.

Since DKR and Batman Beyond both exist outside of the current continuity in the comics, I fail to see how Bruce Wayne's age in the stories they were featured in is even remotely relevant to whether or not the characters could/should appear in the current continuity.

Personally, I wouldn't be against either of them being adapted to fit into the current continuity.

[colossus34]

Am I the only person who hates Terry? I hate broken down Bruce Wayne, I hate his Mary Sue replacement, and I hate the deus ex machina that made them actual relatives. And Tim Drake becoming the Joker is just the height of retarded. Who wrote this crap?

Honestly, you're not alone. I admired the orginal concept of Beyond but the show really deteriated after awhile. The worst thing they did was take away everything Terry McGinnis had earned on his own(as his won person) by throwing in the last episode that he was just a freakin CLONE of Bruce Wayne! C'mon that is just cheap and lame way to end the series. If the series is ever returned I hope that is retconned out.

[El Santo]

Batman Beyond was a great addition to the Timmverse and the story and villians were some of my favorite ever. Incredible stuff; I understand why some don't like it, just like I understand why some people actually like Chuck Austen's writing, or Chris Bachalo's current art direction. But make mine Batman Beyond!

Batman Beyond is to Batman as Chuck Austen is to the X-Men.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Honestly, you're not alone. I admired the orginal concept of Beyond but the show really deteriated after awhile. The worst thing they did was take away everything Terry McGinnis had earned on his own(as his won person) by throwing in the last episode that he was just a freakin CLONE of Bruce Wayne! C'mon that is just cheap and lame way to end the series. If the series is ever returned I hope that is retconned out.

Terry isn't Bruce's clone, he's Bruce's son (thanks to Amanda Waller, Bruce's DNA overwrote Warren McGinnis' DNA, so Marry McGinnis became pregnant with Bruce's child).

And that wasn't revealed in the last episode of Batman Beyond, it was in the Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue".

[DonC]

I think she looks cuter as Catgirl. But I don't think she should become part of continuity unless she travels back from the future as Catgirl to save Robin or something and doesn't reveal who she is to the characters.


Oh, god, no. Time travel is bad.

[shyguy]

Well, having Carrie Kelly pop up would be a horrible idea and, as some have mentioned, is just a way for a writer to demonstrate how clever he is (because god know nobody's ever referenced DKR before).

That said, the idea is probably brewing in Geoff Johns' head as we speak.

And I liked Batman Beyond, but that episode of JLU where it turns out that Terry is Bruce's son was beyond stupid.

[Kara Zor El]

Oh, god, no. Time travel is bad.
Try going back in time and telling H.G. Wells that!

[DonC]

Try going back in time and telling H.G. Wells that!


Batman has always been rooted in the more realistic corner of the fictional DCU. Having him involved with a time travel story wouldn't go over very well, in my opinion. And I don't mean the JLA-Batman, I mean having time travel in one of Batman's solo comics.

[Kara Zor El]

Batman has always been rooted in the more realistic corner of the fictional DCU. Having him involved with a time travel story wouldn't go over very well, in my opinion. And I don't mean the JLA-Batman, I mean having time travel in one of Batman's solo comics.
I prefer Batman to be in a more real place too. Which is pretty absurd of me when I consider just how unreal he is. But it kind of makes sense.
Howver I suppose I was referring to a one shot comic book rather than a coninuity book.

[marshal99]

There's simply too many alternate futures running in the DCU now. You don't need the dark knight alternate future as well or not the next DCU crossover will be the infinite crisis of hypertime.
First you have captain atom in his kingdom come look , now he's in the armageddon 2001 monarch look. Each creator wants his own alternate future thingy appearing in the DCU now.

[Kaos]

wasn't she on one of the gravestones in john's teen titans when they were in the future

[Kaos]

terry was a clone?? WTF...man i liked that show...

[Lester C.]

Much of DKR had become continuity, although some of it has been eliminated over the years. Jason Todd's death, Dick and Bruce not speaking to each other, precident for wheel chair detectives, Babs being Jim's neice instead of daughter, Jim's marrage to Sarah, Jim's divorced wife, the idological rift between Batman and Superman etc has all made it into mainstream bat continuity.

[dancj]

Were there any wheelchair detectives in TDKR? I don't remember any

[Candyland_Assassin]

To be fair, if DC hadn't gotten cold feet at the very last moment about killing Dick Grayson, Jason Todd would be the only Nightwing, have his own book, as well as lead the Outsiders.
Cold feet maybe, but I'm glad they didn't kill him. Hes one of my favorite characters and plus if they had it would just mean some eventual ressurection story in a few years.

[Lorendiac]

Much of DKR had become continuity, although some of it has been eliminated over the years. Jason Todd's death, Dick and Bruce not speaking to each other, precident for wheel chair detectives, Babs being Jim's neice instead of daughter, Jim's marrage to Sarah, Jim's divorced wife, the idological rift between Batman and Superman etc has all made it into mainstream bat continuity.

There had been ideological rifts between Superman and Batman prior to DKR -- the biggest one that I know of came when Batman formed the Outsiders around 1983 -- so it's not like Miller invented the idea out of thin air. And, like dancj, I'm having trouble remembering any "wheelchair detectives" in DKR. I also don't immediately recall DKR mentioning Jim having a divorced ex-wife, nor it saying anything about Babs in any context -- as his niece, his daughter, or whatever. Can you stir my memory on what DKR said about Jim's first wife and daughter Babs (or niece Babs, or whatever)?

[dancj]

I think Lester is mixing in Batman Year One a bit with the Gordon/Barbara stuff.

In TDKR we know Gordon's wife is called Sarah, but in Year One it's something else (can't remember what), but he does have an affair with a woman called Sarah.

Also in Year One by not giving Gordon a daughter - who would have to have been at least 5-ish years old in that story to match current continuity, he forced other writers to explain away Babs as his niece. IIRC another writer decided to make her his biological daughter again through an affair that he'd had with his sister in law - I felt that last move was a bit insulting to adopted people - as if they were 'fixing' the fact that she wasn't his 'real' daughter.

I'm still in the dark about the wheelchair though

Dan

[the goddamn batman]

Actually Jim's wife in Year One is named Barbara! He has an affair with Sarah Essen.

[dancj]

Actually Jim's wife in Year One is named Barbara! He has an affair with Sarah Essen.

That's what I said (except I couldn't remember his wife's name)