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View Full Version : Amadeus Rocks No More...Islamic fears close production



Spackling Compound
09-26-2006, 11:44 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060926/ap_on_en_mu/germany_opera_islam


The leader of Germany's Islamic Council welcomed the decision, saying a depiction of Muhammad with a severed head "could certainly offend Muslims."

"Nevertheless, of course I think it is horrible that one has to be afraid," Ali Kizilkaya told Berlin's Radio Multikulti. "That is not the right way to open dialogue."

Charles RB
09-26-2006, 12:23 PM
It's been around for three years without a security incident. What scared the officials now?

Spackling Compound
09-26-2006, 12:25 PM
It's been around for three years without a security incident. What scared the officials now?
The article(s) say that the threats made in the wake of the Pope's comments on the 12th have something to do with it.

There's mention of the German cartoons and it seem that the play was not performed there since 04, so maybe....they got skittish?

warspite1805
09-26-2006, 01:23 PM
Who says violence (or threat of) never achieves anything no one seems bothered about upsetting Budhists, Christians or people who worship the Greek Pantheon of gods. This has nothing to do with not trying to offend people or avoid causing offence, score one for cowardice.


*plus I thought Muslims regarding Christ as one of their p5rophets so sureluy having a Christ severed head would also upset Muslims.

Paul McEnery
09-26-2006, 01:42 PM
It's been around for three years without a security incident. What scared the officials now?
Nope. It was last performed in 2004. Before the Danish cartoons and the Pope's big mouth. BTW:


After its premiere in 2003, the production by Hans Neuenfels drew widespread criticism over the scene in which King Idomeneo presents the severed heads not only of the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon, but also of Muhammad, Jesus and Buddha. The disputed scene is not part of Mozart's original staging of the 225-year-old opera, but was an addition of Neuenfels' production, which was last performed by the company in March 2004.

So basically, we've got a bourgeois wanker courting empty controversy to put bums on seats. You could lose the scene and lose nothing (and, you know, regain some artistic integrity).

And yeah, freedom of speech above almost everything, but this is dumb, dumb, dumb, and if I were the Opera House, the insurance company, the opera company, or the people backing the opera, I'd have that scene out soon as look at you. It's very, very ill-advised in the current climate.

Charles RB
09-26-2006, 02:50 PM
Nope. It was last performed in 2004. Before the Danish cartoons and the Pope's big mouth.

So it apparently didn't cause security problems then and is only doing so now because of something someone else did? Have they actually recieved any credible threats or are they just overreacting?

Samurai
09-26-2006, 02:51 PM
So it apparently didn't cause security problems then and is only doing so now because of something someone else did? Have they actually recieved any credible threats or are they just overreacting?
Better not to tempt the Jihadis... just keep your head down and act all submissive, and they (probably) will not kill you... at least, that's the basic idea.

Paul McEnery
09-26-2006, 03:18 PM
So it apparently didn't cause security problems then and is only doing so now because of something someone else did? Have they actually recieved any credible threats or are they just overreacting?
The state security people told the opera they might want to watch themselves, and the opera had a hissy fit and took their ball home.

As the AP writer put it:


After its premiere in 2003, the production by Hans Neuenfels drew widespread criticism over a scene in which King Idomeneo presents the severed heads not only of the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon, but also of Muhammad, Jesus and Buddha.

So it wasn't just the Muslims who weren't well pleased.

It's also worth noting:


Response from Germany's Islamic community was mixed, with some praising the decision and others calling on Muslims to accept the role of provocation in art.

The leader of Germany's Islamic Council welcomed the move, saying a depiction of Muhammad with a severed head "could certainly offend Muslims."

But in an interview with German radio, Ali Kizilkaya added: "I think it is horrible that one has to be afraid ... That is not the right way to open dialogue."

And ultimately, the important thing is that the provocative staging wasn't in any way central to the production, and the one solitary scene could certainly have been struck without harm.

I mean, I'm pleased that Germany is thinking this through, and that the Muslim community is having public debate about it. But still, the imagery does seem needlessly provocative under the circumstances.

Spackling Compound
09-26-2006, 03:19 PM
I like the quote from the Muslim "diplomat". One hand he applauds the decision to pull the production while on the other he scoffs the idea that people should be afraid.

And as Paul said, the scene can be omitted easily. It's not even Mozart's intention to have the scene.

I guess it's all well and good to be offensive and edgy but when something more offensive and edgy (oh..say...riots and terrorism) comes along it's all back to Norman Rockwell....

Paul McEnery
09-26-2006, 03:31 PM
I like the quote from the Muslim "diplomat". One hand he applauds the decision to pull the production while on the other he scoffs the idea that people should be afraid.

And as Paul said, the scene can be omitted easily. It's not even Mozart's intention to have the scene.

I guess it's all well and good to be offensive and edgy but when something more offensive and edgy (oh..say...riots and terrorism) comes along it's all back to Norman Rockwell....
It's worth pointing out that the opera concerns King Priam of Troy, so the severed heads of any god other than Poseidon is just adolescent posturing.

It's also worth pointing out that there's no severed head of Moses, because under German law, that would be illegal. So, not only is the director posturing, but he's posturing safely.

Or so he thought.

Willing to wind up the Muslim population; not willing to wind up the police. Big man, there.

Spackling Compound
09-26-2006, 03:45 PM
It's worth pointing out that the opera concerns King Priam of Troy, so the severed heads of any god other than Poseidon is just adolescent posturing.

It's also worth pointing out that there's no severed head of Moses, because under German law, that would be illegal. So, not only is the director posturing, but he's posturing safely.

Or so he thought.

Willing to wind up the Muslim population; not willing to wind up the police. Big man, there.
That is worth pointing out. I was wondering about Moses, too. I figured it had to do something with the Germany's relationship with Judaism post-Holocaust.
The interesting thing about some political artists, such as the one who put this deal on, is that they pull stunts like this to help people "think" or to "broaden people's perceptions" or whatever. It's like saying, "Ok, we're going to offend some of you but it's for your own good because we know what's good for you." But when there's a series of bombings, terrorist acts against women and children and calls for death, what's the message then? "Oh, hi, we creative artists were basically trying to offend the middle class sensibilities of the presumably Christian audience who when offended will write letters or something. If you guys got mad...sowwwwwy."
Worst. Teachable. Moment. Ever.
and..as a Catholic, and an Orthodox one at that, may I say: "That's two strikes for Germany and Islam. Could you guys just say "nein" to the Islam stuff? Danke."

Charles RB
09-26-2006, 03:53 PM
The state security people told the opera they might want to watch themselves, and the opera had a hissy fit and took their ball home.

So that's a "yes" to overreaction then?

Iangould
09-26-2006, 03:54 PM
no one seems bothered about upsetting Budhists, Christians or people who worship the Greek Pantheon of gods.

1. Read up on the Buddhist anti-muslim riots in Burma about a year back that resulted in several hundred deaths. It supposedly started when someone threw a stone over a monastery wall and hit a statue of the Buddha.

But I'm sure that's just an isolated unrepresentative incident.

2. You wisely omitted Hinduism from your list. Wisely because it was only about a week ago a Hindu mob threatened to burn down a Christian missionary school and bombs were detonated in mosques in several parts of India.

Paul McEnery
09-26-2006, 04:02 PM
So that's a "yes" to overreaction then?
Opera People: Big Fat Drama Queens.

News at Eleven.

Sanagi
09-26-2006, 11:23 PM
I expect Mozart would be irritated, too; they changed the plot of his opera.

TheTen-EyedMan
09-27-2006, 12:37 AM
I think they should just put on the Magic Flute and be done with it. Piss off the Freemasons and the worst they do is chop up prostitutes.

http://www.amadeusmozart.de/BesetzungJones.jpg

"How much for your children?"

No, I'm sorry...

"Too Many Pants...on those kids"

Spackling Compound
09-27-2006, 03:35 PM
I think they should just put on the Magic Flute and be done with it. Piss off the Freemasons and the worst they do is chop up prostitutes.

http://www.amadeusmozart.de/BesetzungJones.jpg

"How much for your children?"

No, I'm sorry...

"Too Many Pants...on those kids"
Mmmm.hm!

Y'know with the chopping up prostitutes, maybe the Jihadists will cross the aisle for that one.