What Should Become Of Warren Worthington?

[Cayman]

Angel/Archangel is between gigs at the moment. Where would you like to see him end up?

[Nyssane]

I want to see more of the business side of Angel, as seen in Casey's Uncanny run. It was a great idea, IMO, and I'd like to see more if it, especially since he's not doing anything. It'd give an explanation as to why he's not always around.

[Dizzy D]

First mutant U.S. senator.

[Beast]

The rumors still indicate he's headed for Astonishing X-Men. Sounds good to me.

[Cayman]

I voted New Champions. I just like them. :o

[streator]

i would like to see him in astonishing x-men.

[Blackcat]

I honestly do not care much about Archangel

[Ghost Writer]

Personally, I hate Angel as I find the character boring and one dimensional. That said, I do think he he's due for some sort of leadership position. I'd suggest that he assemble and fund a brand new team handpicked from out of the 198. I'd be interested in that.

[Titan76]

Kill the character off, but then again some writer will want to bring him back and you know how that goes.

[We R. Venom]

I picked randomly. New Excalibur. I dont care, I just want him in a comic.

[Gene M.]

New Champions! Now's the perfect time, what with Civil War bringing in all kids of change. Warren! Bobby! Hercules! Ghost Rider! Goliath! There's nothing stopping Joe Q. from making it happenEXCLAIMATIONPOINT!

[MrHooligan13]

Put him on Astonishing since there is no one on that team who can fly and everybody knows you just cant have a superhero team without at least one member being able to fly...Emma cant fly right? Does Lockheed count? :rolleyes:

[MakeMineMarvel]

I'd like to see Angel around and I think he'd fit in with any of the main 3 teams. Though I do like the idea of him headed into politics. Or even using his fortune to help the 198 or something.

[moebius]

New Champions! Now's the perfect time, what with Civil War bringing in all kids of change. Warren! Bobby! Hercules! Ghost Rider! Goliath! There's nothing stopping Joe Q. from making it happenEXCLAIMATIONPOINT!

Uhh...are we talking the same Goliath here? Because it would have to be zombie Goliath...

I would like to see Warren an affiliated, non-field member of the team, and really play up his business background. I think most of us would agree that was Casey's one real success on the books.

[Joe Acro]

I feel that Warren, along with the rest of the original cast, should be relegated to retirement. Both he and Iceman are dull. Beast has been changed beyond recognition. Cyclops isn't as good a character as he used to be. Xavier doesn't even have his powers at the moment. I say they should retire and only appear in times of crisis.

[MakeMineMarvel]

I feel that Warren, along with the rest of the original cast, should be relegated to retirement. Both he and Iceman are dull. Beast has been changed beyond recognition. Cyclops isn't as good a character as he used to be. Xavier doesn't even have his powers at the moment. I say they should retire and only appear in times of crisis.

WHAT?!?! Gonna have to disagree with you there. You want to talk dull let's talk Colossus. I love the character but man that guy has no use at all other than to drag Kitty down. Beast needs to revert back to human or blue & furry. Cyke is still the leader and Iceman has hopefully found a writer (Carey) who hopefuly knows how to use him. The originals (Havok & Polaris included) are the best.

[lament]

I want him in Astonishing. I'd like to have the razor wings back, but I'll settle for him being part of a good team written by a good writer.

[Joe Acro]

You disagree with me? You admitted that Beast isn't right. You admitted that Iceman needs work (or is currently getting improved). I'll agree that Colossus is dull. He should've stayed dead.

Cyke being leader = good character? Even if that were true, he isn't really leading the team. Currently, that seems to be Emma's job.

[Tennoarashi]

Sex-machine.

Though honestly, the original X-Men are still viable characters. They just need to be promoted in different contexts, is all. I like all the originals, but dislike them as a team (though that's a personal beef).

[MakeMineMarvel]

You disagree with me? You admitted that Beast isn't right. You admitted that Iceman needs work (or is currently getting improved). I'll agree that Colossus is dull. He should've stayed dead.

Cyke being leader = good character? Even if that were true, he isn't really leading the team. Currently, that seems to be Emma's job.

But that isn't a fault of the character(s), just the writers. Morrison screwed Beast up and Bobby is always in a constant state of flux. He starts getting developed and than gets put on the back burner. Now Scott has been kind of taking a back seat to Emma but I feel that he defines the X-Men moreso than any other character.

[Omega Alpha]

I feel that Warren, along with the rest of the original cast, should be relegated to retirement. Both he and Iceman are dull. Beast has been changed beyond recognition. Cyclops isn't as good a character as he used to be. Xavier doesn't even have his powers at the moment. I say they should retire and only appear in times of crisis.

I say you should retire from this board and only appear in times of crisis.

Anyway, i voted for Astonishing X-men. A PR team is the ideal for him.

[Gene M.]

I say you should retire from this board and only appear in times of crisis.

Anyway, i voted for Astonishing X-men. A PR team is the ideal for him.

Ohhh snap!

[Karthak]

But that isn't a fault of the character(s), just the writers. Morrison screwed Beast up.
In what way did Morrison screw Beast up? I´ve read practically every x-men issue there is in which Beast features and I had no problems with him during Morrisons run.

[Omega Alpha]

In what way did Morrison screw Beast up? I´ve read practically every x-men issue there is in which Beast features and I had no problems with him during Morrisons run.

For me (and many), nobody has ever written the Beast better.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

He'd fit with Carey's team I think. They need more fliers.

[Omega Alpha]

He'd fit with Carey's team I think. They need more fliers.

In that case, he would fit even better with Astonishing, because they don't need more fliers, they need fliers, period. Carey already has Cannonball.

[Beast]

For me (and many), nobody has ever written the Beast better.
Many might be something of an exaggeration.

[brundlefly]

For me (and many), nobody has ever written the Beast better.


Many might be something of an exaggeration.

Indeed; Morrison's NEW X-MEN run wasn't exactly Hank McCoy's finest hour. Starting out with being whimsically morphed into some kind of goofy cat-monster after Grant saw Beauty and the Beast one too many times, then concluding with the "honor" of being Sublime's puppet for HERE COMES TOMORROW. And spending much of the time in-between either in a coma or just standing around in the background.

[Deus ex Chris]

I want to see more of the business side of Angel, as seen in Casey's Uncanny run. It was a great idea, IMO, and I'd like to see more if it, especially since he's not doing anything. It'd give an explanation as to why he's not always around.
I agree. Angel should be off making millions and fighting for mutant rights using the big corporate machine. That's what he really has that makes him unique. Flight just isn't enough. When you've got folks like Cannonball around, what good is Warren Worthington? Well, if you want him to bleed on you, I guess he's useful.

[Joe Acro]

But that isn't a fault of the character(s), just the writers. Morrison screwed Beast up and Bobby is always in a constant state of flux. He starts getting developed and than gets put on the back burner. Now Scott has been kind of taking a back seat to Emma but I feel that he defines the X-Men moreso than any other character.
I think that the fact that a few writers are seemingly having trouble writing these characters speaks for their worth. If some of them would show some emotion and good stories could be worked around them, I'm all for retracting my statement.


I say you should retire from this board and only appear in times of crisis.
But if I only appeared in times of crisis, all I'd have to talk about is how the companies are ruining their characters and comics. Oh, wait...

[MrSuslov]

Making him the money man might be a good way to utilize the character. After all, where's the money for all that fancy X-gear and mansion reconstruction come from? W.K. Worthington, III: Ruthless financier by day, winged competitor for the heart of Jean Grey by night, and light air support from time to time for a team that would otherwise not have any. (I suppose that means Astonishing.)

Putting him back in the hunt for the affections of Miss Grey draws upon and renews the bad history that he and Wolverine have had in the past. After all, they're competing for second place to Scott Summers, and hey, Cyke might slip in her esteem and she'll need a rebound. The problematic question that I can't answer is, "What about Miss Braddock and/or Miss Guthrie?" Maybe First Class'll give me a better feel for the guy, but I have no idea if I'm even going to keep that book.

And just for kicks, throw in a bit of Emma Frost to give the whole mess even worse. :D

[AceOfSpades]

Astonishing, but more of a sided character.. Show us a different side of Angel besides broody Archangel (the one we always see)

[MakeMineMarvel]

Indeed; Morrison's NEW X-MEN run wasn't exactly Hank McCoy's finest hour. Starting out with being whimsically morphed into some kind of goofy cat-monster after Grant saw Beauty and the Beast one too many times, then concluding with the "honor" of being Sublime's puppet for HERE COMES TOMORROW. And spending much of the time in-between either in a coma or just standing around in the background.

Exactly! Hank had a few good moments under Grant but overall I thought he was just totally trashed. But, I don't really care for Morrisons work (preparing to get flamed) so maybe I am partly biased.

[Flameworthy]

Put him on Astonishing since there is no one on that team who can fly and everybody knows you just cant have a superhero team without at least one member being able to fly...Emma cant fly right? Does Lockheed count? :rolleyes:

That's because Whedon didn't want characters who could fly.

I'd like to see him on Astonishing, but he needs the blue skin back. I hate when Austen got rid of it in exchange for the crappy healing blood. If he wanted to to give him healing powers he should have just brought back the light freathers/powers he had in Wolverine. I wouldn't mind he had those powers back either.

[Vaal]

I'd rather have the razor wings/launging pinions instead of the blue skin.

And with Elixir down and seemingly headed for Villain City on a one way train, Warren's healing is desperately needed.

[Flameworthy]

I'd rather have the razor wings/launging pinions instead of the blue skin.

And with Elixir down and seemingly headed for Villain City on a one way train, Warren's healing is desperately needed.

I just find his healing blood so impractical. *Hey guys someone's down. Lets get Warren to bleed all over them.*:rolleyes:

While I liked his Razorwings when he had them, I'm glad to went back to the feathers. The metal just seems so inorganic, and it just didn't seem like he was a mutant anymore. At least with the blue skin he was still left with the reminder of the changes Apocalypse put him through.

[Darkwave]

Exactly! Hank had a few good moments under Grant but overall I thought he was just totally trashed. But, I don't really care for Morrisons work (preparing to get flamed) so maybe I am partly biased.

I love Grant Morrison. I consider The Invisibles to be one of the great works of modern literature.

And I thought Morrison's run on X-Men wasn't the greatest, and he didn't quite get a few characters. Including Beast.

[Darkwave]

Ahh. My favorite character. And it seems like he's had more lines in Marvel Zombies than anywhere else...

I'd like him to come back, and to be written well (i.e. not just rich winged cliched cypher, but a flawed character with depth)

I actually think he's a logical candidate to be a new "figure of opposition" for the X-Men ("villain" is such a silver age term). With all the villains that are reforming and joining the X-Men, I think we also need X-Men who split away from the X-Men and come into conflict.

Warren should be brought back on a team, and then gradually differ with and separate from that team, eventually becoming the new opposition figure. There's a couple reasons why this might happen:

1) Warren''s had different experiences from the rest of them -- he's been running a business in the real world while the rest of them are effectively living in a commune. He (rightly or wrongly) thinks that this means that he has a better handle on how the realities of mutant/human relations should be handled. He angrily leaves the X-Men when Scott disregards some of his suggestions, and forms his own team.

or

2) Warren got his feathered wings back in exchange for something - we don't know what. Did he sell out some secret of the X-Men in exchange for his wings? To whom? And will the X-men forgive him? Or will they kick him out?

or

3) Warren's going nuts. Not in an obvious way, but in a subtle, impaired judgment way. Basically, when Apocalypse did his work on Warren, he re-wired Warren's brain (to enable use of the metal wings, etc). Now that Warren's got a healing factor, that healing factor is attempting to undo Apocalypse's changes to Warren's brain -- but the end result is a cranial mess, and a Warren whos actions grow a little more erratic each day. His friends gradually come to realize this, and try to help him, but Warren angrily brushes off their efforts, and denies that anything's wrong. Eventually Warren leaves, vowing retribution on his former friends.

The nicest thing about theory #3 is that you can use it to explain away Chuck Austen's run -- "those events didn't actually happen -- that's just how Warren perceived them"

[fishtaco]

Uncanny X-Men. That doesn't mean I want Brubaker writing him, though.

[Mariah]

Uncanny X-Men. That doesn't mean I want Brubaker writing him, though.
Bru's doing a good job over there. I've loved the story from 475 on.

[moon knight]

I like to see him in a New Champions team but Astonishing X-men would be a good choice too.

[Frodo-X]

Bru's doing a good job over there. I've loved the story from 475 on.

So have I. Not quite as much as Carey's X-men, but still loving it!

[jawbreaker]

Id like to know if he & Paige are still together!!! Seriously we need an update on that pronto!

[That JonoGuy]

I think he'd fit in more with the Astonishin cast. Either them or Carey's X-Men. I'd like to see his take on him.

[Joe Acro]

Id like to know if he & Paige are still together!!! Seriously we need an update on that pronto!
There were still together in last year's holiday issue.

[Omega Alpha]

I agree. Angel should be off making millions and fighting for mutant rights using the big corporate machine. That's what he really has that makes him unique. Flight just isn't enough. When you've got folks like Cannonball around, what good is Warren Worthington? Well, if you want him to bleed on you, I guess he's useful.

Perfect post. He's useful using his head, not in the battle with his sissy wings.

[fishtaco]

Perfect post. He's useful using his head, not in the battle with his sissy wings.Why they ever took away the metal wings and blue skin, I'll never know. What's insulting about the whole thing is how he still goes by the name "Archangel".

[Beast]

Why they ever took away the metal wings and blue skin, I'll never know. What's insulting about the whole thing is how he still goes by the name "Archangel".
How exactly is that insulting?

[dellicious]

dead or he should hook up with jubilee and have husk get mad

[Deus ex Chris]

How exactly is that insulting?
Because Simonson wasn't the one who enacted the change. Don't you know anything? ;)

[Frodo-X]

How exactly is that insulting?

He stopped selling Big Macs. ;)

[Beast]

Because Simonson wasn't the one who enacted the change. Don't you know anything? ;)
Oh, of course. How silly of me. ;) :D

[Deus ex Chris]

Oh, of course. How silly of me. ;) :D
Now you know. ;)

[Cayman]

I hated Blue Warren. Blue Warren is my cat beast.

[Deus ex Chris]

I hated Blue Warren. Blue Warren is my cat beast.
I agree. I also hated the metal wings. WTF?

[traxler]

metal wings were the Devil's toys.

I'm taking down the names of those who wish WW were dead though.

[Omega Alpha]

Metal wings made it possible for him to kick serious butt (which he can never do with those sissy ones), and he was actually useful in a battle. Plus, he looked really cool.

[Deus ex Chris]

Metal wings made it possible for him to kick serious butt (which he can never do with those sissy ones), and he was actually useful in a battle. Plus, he looked really cool.
If by "cool" you mean "lame" then I agree. Turning him into Wolverine-lite wasn't the way to go. Joe Casey got it right. It's just too bad it took nearly 40 years for a writer to figure out how to use him. Oh, and "sissy" is getting annoying, rude, and offensive, so try another descriptor.

[Editor]

Metal wings made it possible for him to kick serious butt (which he can never do with those sissy ones), and he was actually useful in a battle. Plus, he looked really cool.

What's cool about being able to 'kick butt'?

There were already plenty of those characters around. Wolverine etc.

The metal wings just made for lazy writing.

'Mmmm what can we have archangel doing?'

'Make him cut stuff! That's super cool and badazzzz'

Mmmm....who else cuts stuff?

He was used far more creatively with the normal wings because he had limitations. Take away limitations and you're left with a boring deus ex machina.


Actually he looked like kind of a dick. His costume was lame.

[fishtaco]

delete post. oops.

[Novaya Havoc]

I picked New Excalibur because I want some glam-fabulous Dazzler/Angel romance revisited. :D

[Editor]

I picked New Excalibur because I want some glam-fabulous Dazzler/Angel romance revisited. :D

I doubt any of the editors (except me :D ) are aware that even happened.

That's why I picked NEX too. Be nice to have an actual X-Man in the title aswell. Make it a bit classier.

[dellicious]

sometimes i feel bad for warren
they just dont know what to do with him

[Omega Alpha]

What's cool about being able to 'kick butt'?

There were already plenty of those characters around. Wolverine etc.

The metal wings just made for lazy writing.

'Mmmm what can we have archangel doing?'

'Make him cut stuff! That's super cool and badazzzz'

Mmmm....who else cuts stuff?

He was used far more creatively with the normal wings because he had limitations. Take away limitations and you're left with a boring deus ex machina.


Actually he looked like kind of a dick. His costume was lame.


And who said he didn't have limitations? He was still less powerful than Bobby, Scott and Jean, they only made him actually capable of held on his own again serious competition.

[Tuppence]

Ahh. My favorite character. And it seems like he's had more lines in Marvel Zombies than anywhere else...

I'd like him to come back, and to be written well (i.e. not just rich winged cliched cypher, but a flawed character with depth)Ally in the fight! Warren's my favorite too. I actually disagree with most of what you said, but it's done with full respect and in the spirit of comradeship.


1) He angrily leaves the X-Men when Scott disregards some of his suggestions, and forms his own team.That may happen, but it doesn't make a villain. First off I don't think any fight he'd have with Scott over methods would be serious enough to cause a permanent break, not without making either Scott or Warren out of character. And even so, so what? Having your own ideas is not the next step to twirling your moustache and wearing a monocle. As you said, he'd just hire his own team. Maybe support his own political candidates. Warren's not going to start to kill or secretly support Magneto. I just can't think what could arise here that would make him a villain that needed to be fought. And if he wasn't, why would Scott waste time fighting him. Even if Scott would, everyone else wouldn't.

Besides, Scott needs his friends. We get him doing the Jean-Maddie-Jean-Betsy-Jean-Emma romantic angst ad infinitum, but we don't get to see him being a friend, especially with Warren or Bobby (Hank's a bit better lately), which is just as important and can be just as compelling. Warren's suffered some from this too, most of his storylines being romantic ones.


2) Warren got his feathered wings back in exchange for something - we don't know what. Did he sell out some secret of the X-Men in exchange for his wings? To whom? And will the X-men forgive him? Or will they kick him out?This one I just don't believe. I think one of Warren's character traits is that he is actually very loyal to his family. More than that, he's already learned that agreeing to shady deals to get his wings back never ends well. It's how he ended up Death in the first place. Doing this both destroys character development and repeats a story.


3) Warren's going nuts. Not in an obvious way, but in a subtle, impaired judgment way. Basically, when Apocalypse did his work on Warren, he re-wired Warren's brain (to enable use of the metal wings, etc). Now that Warren's got a healing factor, that healing factor is attempting to undo Apocalypse's changes to Warren's brain -- but the end result is a cranial mess, and a Warren whos actions grow a little more erratic each day. His friends gradually come to realize this, and try to help him, but Warren angrily brushes off their efforts, and denies that anything's wrong. Eventually Warren leaves, vowing retribution on his former friends.I suppose it leaves room for recovery when his sanity returns, but it's too similar to his storylines by Lobdell at the end of the Uncanny 200s/start of the 300s.

More than that, why should Warren have to be the villain? I wonder sometimes if one of the reasons for his unpopularity in some places is the way he is written opposing/fighting popular characters. He's had notable feuds with Wolverine and Gambit, both big fanbait characters. Making Warren a villain is a cheap way to get angst for other characters, and it wouldn't work as well as someone more emeshed in the school. For a counterexample, suppose Kitty or Kurt went bad (NOT suggesting that, as I love them both, especially Kurt.) Let some other character take the meta hit, Warren deserves a good portrayal by someone who likes him as a hero. (As of course do many other characters, some of whom are probably in even more need.)

Nah, I vote for the Astonishing (assuming Joss likes the character) but I hope for the politics. Like many people, I think Joe Casey got it exactly right. If not politics, he can be part of an exploratory team that is tracking down the remaining mutants to see if they need help (revamping his Mutantes Sans Frontieres*.) Let Paige break up with him in a friendly fashion and he can banter with Sally Floyd (or Charlotte Jones) in a wider Marvel U team after the Civil War stuff. Or just make good supporting appearances in the main X-men teams from time to time. Also, if Kurt Busiek can write the wings effectively, then others can too. No excuses :).

Granted, I think this all might be moot, as I'm laying even odds on Warren or Bishop dying in X-Men Civil War 4. I shan't be pleased if it's Warren (won't be pleased by Bishop either, but still...)

*A mini-series with Warren (leader & flight), Bishop (tactics & strength), Jubes (politics & snark), & Ceci Reyes (medical support & trying to recover herself after Weapon X), traveling the world to find mutants and end some threat is one I'd buy. Call it "Save the neglected characters". (Well, maybe it needs a new title.)

[Lila_Cheney]

I wish Brubaker would pick up Warren Worthington and drop Alex or maybe even Rachel.

[Madrox84]

I'd like to see him in Astonishing, and i'd like to see some focus on Archangel as a businessman. Like Joe Casey was doing.

[drwho]

I always thought it would be cool if he financed a superhero team. He could found and fund a New Defenders team. He would basically be running the team, but wouldnt take part in the actual mission. He would be more the brains of the group.

[The Mirrorball Man]

He could turn into the guy with the bat-wings who could breathe fire? You know, in Mutant X? What was his name? Fallen, right? Warren could turn into Fallen.

[Red Lotus]

I always like Warren. I think he is a great supporting character my only problem with him has been when they have tried to give him a little more spot light. But I think he would fit in perfectly in Astonishing X-Men.

[Flameworthy]

Id like to know if he & Paige are still together!!! Seriously we need an update on that pronto!

Ugh, I hope not. That was relationship was just wrong! I hope he's dumped her already. He needs to either get back together with Betsy, or rekindle what he once had with Ali.

[Colossusfan]

I think he'd work best in Astonishing, as the team stands at the moment. I also think that he would be good in the New Champions though. I would like to see more X-Men in other teams just to shake things up a little.