Any interest in a Comic Industry forum?

[Kid Kyoto]

The system we have now makes it hard to talk about stuff that crosses companies. We have DC, Marvel and Indy boards but talking about (say) John Byrne's career, the best inker in the industry or general trends doesn't really fit anywhere.

This forum is mostly off-topic stuff and comic threads get lost in the shuffle.

I proposed it in the Q&A board and would like to get some idea of what others think.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=144726

[Ed Cunard]

If comics threads seem to get lost in the shuffle here, perhaps its because it's not necessarily the specific comics threads you might be interested in. At the time I'm posting this, there are two comics-specific threads on the front page of the community board, and three on the second.

But, really, if you want more comics threads here, start some. If not, there are also general topic comics discussions in the Comics Should Be Good subforum and in the YABS subforum, and general comics discussion about older works can be found in the Classics forum.

[cactusmaac]

I'd be in favour of a dedicated General Comics discussion board. From the way comics threads tend to go here, Comm board regulars tend to dominate them while non-regulars don't seem to stick around.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Sorry to say it, but this idea has been suggested many times before, and rejected every time.

[Kid Kyoto]

Sorry to say it, but this idea has been suggested many times before, and rejected every time.

why?
(character limit)

[Magneto_X]

I'd like one.

[Sir Tim Drake]

why?
(character limit)

Because it would detract from the Community forum and would split discussions too much. It's the same reason why we don't have a Sports or Politics board, both of which have also been proposed and rejected on numerous occasions. The feeling is that the Community forum is the proper place to discuss topics of more general interest.

Also, if we created a Comics Industry or General Comics forum, then this board would become a board for discussing everything except comics. That hardly seems appropriate on a website which is set up to discuss comics.

[cactusmaac]

I don't see why comics couldn't get discussed here if a separate dedicated board was set up.

Does it have to be an either\or situation?

[pennywisdom]

Also, if we created a Comics Industry or General Comics forum, then this board would become a board for discussing everything except comics.
That's nearly what it is now.

Just rename this place "Politics" (since that's the main topic around here), start up a second board for general comics discussion and everything will be sorted.

[Kid Kyoto]

Because it would detract from the Community forum and would split discussions too much. It's the same reason why we don't have a Sports or Politics board, both of which have also been proposed and rejected on numerous occasions. The feeling is that the Community forum is the proper place to discuss topics of more general interest.

Also, if we created a Comics Industry or General Comics forum, then this board would become a board for discussing everything except comics. That hardly seems appropriate on a website which is set up to discuss comics.

So what you're saying is people have asked for this many times before and it's never been tried :D sounds like a yes vote to me.

More seriously, the whole reason for forums (rather than one big free-for all board) is so people can find stuff they're interesed in without sifting through too much noise. The community board is filled with everything from jokes, to sports to youtube to general comic discussion. Comic discussions not specific to a company or title can also be found in any of a half dozen other forums. Seems like very poor organization to me.

I come to CBR for comic discussion, not sports, not politics, not food, not TV. Separeating this board into general comics and not-comics would make it easy to find what (I assume) all of us come here for. Maybe come of other boards like Classic comics could be moved in as well.

[Kid Omega]

I have often wondered what a COMIC THEORY or COMIC SNOB board would be like... have Ed Cunard mod it, and people could go there to post reviews and discuss serious nuts and bolts of the art form.

In-depth discussion about the hows and wherefores of the medium...

I think it would be a good place, and legit comic critique and discussion wouldn't get lost in the shuffle of boob talk and politics.

Great Idea!

[Jaye]

Pipeline is also a great board to discuss comics in general.

[Ed Cunard]

I have often wondered what a COMIC THEORY or COMIC SNOB board would be like... have Ed Cunard mod it, and people could go there to post reviews and discuss serious nuts and bolts of the art form.

I thought you liked me, you heartless, Irish-hating bastard. I'm commiting pages and pages of Yeats to attack you with on my next Rocketship trip.

Honestly, though? I think that board--tempting as it sounds (provided you strike the words "have Ed Cunard mod it")--would be even less trafficked than the I/SP board.

[The Batman]

I can't see the harm in giving a General Comic Industry board a shot. If it doesn't get any traffic than we'd know it wasn't needed and can just get rid of it.

Is this an issue of bandwith? Of finding a moderator?

I can't help out in the bandwith department but if no one else was interested I'd be willing to give moderating a shot.

[Kid Omega]

I thought you liked me, you heartless, Irish-hating bastard. I'm commiting pages and pages of Yeats to attack you with on my next Rocketship trip.

Honestly, though? I think that board--tempting as it sounds (provided you strike the words "have Ed Cunard mod it")--would be even less trafficked than the I/SP board.

Maybe.

But the content would be rad.

I think it might be busier than you think....

[Kid Omega]

Also, if we created a Comics Industry or General Comics forum, then this board would become a board for discussing everything except comics.

crikey! As opposed to what it is now?!

[Ontir]

I'm not sure what that would be. If you can come up with a real definition, I'd say yes. Is it going to be actual news/developments/trends/technology/political issues (censorship, influence, or lack thereof, etc.), as opposed to "Lying in the Gutters," which is fun, but admitedly gossip?

[Cei-U!]

I'd be terribly disappointed if all general comics talk was removed from the Community board. As someone else pointed out, comics are what brought this "community" together. I don't visit a lot of boards and I like being able to discuss the medium, follow industry talk *and* catch up on you meatheads' latest doins in one swell foop. I don't have any problem picking out the threads I want to follow from amidst the general hubbub. It it ain't broke, don't fix it, sez I.

Cei-U!
Change is bad, dammit!

[cactusmaac]

But why remove it from the Comm board?

Surely if say Joe wants to put his Media Review here, he should feel free to kep doing so.

Having a separate board would mean non-Comm regulars would be encouraged to start up more comics-related threads instead of having them lost amongst all the other topics.

All the comics boards here are sub-divided and there really isn't anywhere you can discuss the industry in general. Comics Should Be Good is driven by the blog postings. Pipeline is Augie's personal board. Classic Comics is devoted to older stuff.

[Forefinger]

Maybe we just need an All-Purpose Comics thread.

[Winslow]

In-depth discussion about the hows and wherefores of the medium...

I think it would be a good place, and legit comic critique and discussion wouldn't get lost in the shuffle of boob talk and politics.

Great Idea!

Back in the golden age of Broken Frontier (2002-2003), that kind of discussion came up quite a bit.

I don't think a general comics forum is a good idea. *thumbs down*

[Kid Kyoto]

I'm not sure what that would be. If you can come up with a real definition, I'd say yes. Is it going to be actual news/developments/trends/technology/political issues (censorship, influence, or lack thereof, etc.), as opposed to "Lying in the Gutters," which is fun, but admitedly gossip?

I see it as similar to existing forums but openly cross-company. How does this sound?

General Comics Discussion
The place to discuss issues that affect several lines or companies such as sales, industry news, creators and comic theory.

[Kid Omega]

I see it as similar to existing forums but openly cross-company. How does this sound?

General Comics Discussion
The place to discuss issues that affect several lines or companies such as sales, industry news, creators and comic theory.

Talking azbout sales and industry news would be maddening.

But I would like to see a general critique/theory board.

[mattbib]

If such discussions were in such high demand then they WOULDN'T be driven off the Community Forum by other topics. There's no need for a new forum.

[Kid Omega]

If such discussions were in such high demand then they WOULDN'T be driven off the Community Forum by other topics. There's no need for a new forum.

I'm unsure why everyone is so firm in bringing the axe down on this idea.

a. It is possible that just because things get pushed off the front page of the Comm board, that they still may be valid or discussable. Let's not pretend the signal to noise ratio on this board isn't stupid high.

b. I know that I rarely post detailed critiques or discussion of form on this board. There is a variety of reasons why. I'm sure other people may feel the same way.

The community board, as it stands now, is a great place for random conversation and miscellaneous topics. But due to the very nature of it, it's not always conducive to the kind of conversations that we're talking about here.

I think a COMICS IN-DEPTH forum could be a great chance to really hash out ideas and discuss why we like what we like, elements of craft, why KRAZY KAT is better than TRIALS OF SHAZAM, or whatever.

I dunno.... I think it's worth batting around at least.

[pennywisdom]

I have often wondered what a COMIC THEORY or COMIC SNOB board would be like...
Yeah, an entire board devoted solely to intellectual condescension among nerds. That sounds pleasant.

Mirthful, even.

Honestly, though? I think that board--tempting as it sounds (provided you strike the words "have Ed Cunard mod it")--would be even less trafficked than the I/SP board.
That, and it would basically consist of wading through the most vitriolic, joyless, and smug conversation CBR posters could dish out.

Honestly, I think you're too nice to enjoy modding a place that's destined to turn into a caustic and humorless cauldron of hate.

[Brian Cronin]

Not saying that the idea is good or bad, but I will tell you that Jonah isn't a big fan of the how specialized the boards are NOW, so the chances are not good for any further specialization. Contraction would be more likely than expansion.

-Brian

[pennywisdom]

Not saying that the idea is good or bad, but I will tell you that Jonah isn't a big fan of the how specialized the boards are NOW, so the chances are not good for any further specialization. Contraction would be more likely than expansion.

-Brian
Specialization makes it easier to find stuff with no decline in quality of conversation (that I can notice). What's the downside? I'm not contradicting Jonah, of course, I'm just wondering out of curiosity.

[mattbib]

I'm unsure why everyone is so firm in bringing the axe down on this idea.

I dunno.... I think it's worth batting around at least.I, like Brian, am not saying it's a good or bad idea, but I think we're quick to bring the axe down on this idea because it HAS been batted around. Repeatedly. And the answer continues to be that such topics can be discussed on the Community Forum.

[o1pickleboy]

Couldn't the comics should be good Forum be adjusted to include general industry threads.

[howyadoin]

Couldn't the comics should be good Forum be adjusted to include general industry threads.I don't think you'd even need to make any changes. That's pretty much what it is now.

[o1pickleboy]

I don't think you'd even need to make any changes. That's pretty much what it is now.


I was thinking in the forum heading.


That and the mod squad and other directing members to post there instead of in community.

[Kid Omega]

Yeah, an entire board devoted solely to intellectual condescension among nerds. That sounds pleasant.

Mirthful, even.


That, and it would basically consist of wading through the most vitriolic, joyless, and smug conversation CBR posters could dish out.

Honestly, I think you're too nice to enjoy modding a place that's destined to turn into a caustic and humorless cauldron of hate.

Wow!

Way to assume the absolute worst!

Nevermind... I guess it is a bad idea, if the immediate assumptions are so fucking rude.

[Ed Cunard]

Yeah, an entire board devoted solely to intellectual condescension among nerds. That sounds pleasant.

Mirthful, even.

That, and it would basically consist of wading through the most vitriolic, joyless, and smug conversation CBR posters could dish out.

Honestly, I think you're too nice to enjoy modding a place that's destined to turn into a caustic and humorless cauldron of hate.

Totally disagree with just about everything you said there, especially the "too nice" part--it's really a "too busy to have anything else on my plate with graduate school and all" thing. And if wanting to have conversations about comics that don't include "i know right that wazbaddazz dude r0xx0rs!" reeks of smugness and intellectual condescension, just call me Mr. Smugness and Intellectual Condescension.

'Cause, seriously? I find a hell of a lot of joy in smart conversation--I don't think it's a joyless thing at all.

[Joe Rice]

I'd love to see this, but I can see it doesn't look likely.

[Kid Omega]

Not saying that the idea is good or bad, but I will tell you that Jonah isn't a big fan of the how specialized the boards are NOW, so the chances are not good for any further specialization. Contraction would be more likely than expansion.

-Brian

That makes sense.

[Kid Kyoto]

Talking azbout sales and industry news would be maddening.

But I would like to see a general critique/theory board.

they're not mutually exclusive.

[Kid Omega]

they're not mutually exclusive.

I would argue that they are.

But I'm interested in hearing why you think that....

[Gingold]

I think it could be a good thing. I guess there's no reason the same type of discussion couldn't be held here on the comm. board, but it'd be bound to get buried beneath the sex, religion, and daily outrage threads.

[howyadoin]

daily outrage threads.Yeah, those are getting to be a bit fucking much. Especially when the person starting them doesn't participate.

[Kid Kyoto]

I would argue that they are.

But I'm interested in hearing why you think that....

It goes back to what a forum is. forums are places to talk about stuff. That stuff can be x-men, video games, nuclear physics or other. When you have a big huge site like this no one has time to check all the forums it's essential that readers understand right away 'this is where I go to talk about basket weaving'.

Unfortunately right now the forums say if you want to talk about a comic company go here, if you want to talk about more than one company, even if it's the same creator who works at several companies you go to 'other' along with physics, basket weaving, sports and strange Japanese videos on youtube. Kind of silly for a comic website to lump comic discussions with OT.

Now once you have a forum for industry-wide issues discussion will be like the rest of the forums. In DC they talk about everything from golden age comics to low-selling comics (and why and how to boost them) to creator moves. So a general comic forum would include everything from Scott McCloud's threories in his latest book to anaysis of the top 100 comics (complete with whinning and cheering) to reviews of a creator's work. And readers would click on the threads they're interested in.

[Kid Omega]

It goes back to what a forum is. forums are places to talk about stuff. That stuff can be x-men, video games, nuclear physics or other. When you have a big huge site like this no one has time to check all the forums it's essential that readers understand right away 'this is where I go to talk about basket weaving'.

Unfortunately right now the forums say if you want to talk about a comic company go here, if you want to talk about more than one company, even if it's the same creator who works at several companies you go to 'other' along with physics, basket weaving, sports and strange Japanese videos on youtube. Kind of silly for a comic website to lump comic discussions with OT.

Now once you have a forum for industry-wide issues discussion will be like the rest of the forums. In DC they talk about everything from golden age comics to low-selling comics (and why and how to boost them) to creator moves. So a general comic forum would include everything from Scott McCloud's threories in his latest book to anaysis of the top 100 comics (complete with whinning and cheering) to reviews of a creator's work. And readers would click on the threads they're interested in.

I thought you meant that critiques and theory discussion are not mutually exclusive with sales and industry discussion. Not in a forum organization way, but in a thematic way

[Kid Kyoto]

In other words can you discuss art and commerce at the same time?

I'd say so but that's a whole other discussion.

[pennywisdom]

Nevermind... I guess it is a bad idea, if the immediate assumptions are so fucking rude.
You're the one who suggesting calling it "Comics Snob". If the title is an insult, what would you expect but negativity?

And if you think my last post was rude, then the TCJer's would truly ruin your day. Starting a forum dedicated to "snobs" is an inherently flawed idea to begin with.

'Cause, seriously? I find a hell of a lot of joy in smart conversation--I don't think it's a joyless thing at all.
There's nothing wrong at all with smart conversation... it's the fact that many people say "smart conversation" when they mean "preening pretentiousness". No, the latter is not fun at all.

And if wanting to have conversations about comics that don't include "i know right that wazbaddazz dude r0xx0rs!" reeks of smugness and intellectual condescension, just call me Mr. Smugness and Intellectual Condescension.
Because if a discussion is merely an exchange of ideas or a good time instead of a battle for supposed intellectual superiority, it instantly makes you an illiterate idiot? Huh. I didn't know that enjoying oneself without feeling the need to posture makes you stupid. That's new.

[Sir Tim Drake]

You're the one who suggesting calling it "Comics Snob". If the title is an insult, what would you expect but negativity?

And if you think my last post was rude, then the TCJer's would truly ruin your day. Starting a forum dedicated to "snobs" is an inherently flawed idea to begin with.

I assume he was joking about calling it "Comics Snob."

As for your comment about the TCJers, I think I understand what you mean: the TCJ boards are so hostile and unfriendly that they give intelligent discussion a bad name. But no one wants CBR to be like that. Contrary to the example of the TCJ boards, it's possible to engage in intelligent conversation while also maintaining a polite, respectful atmosphere.

There's nothing wrong at all with smart conversation... it's the fact that many people say "smart conversation" when they mean "preening pretentiousness". No, the latter is not fun at all.

Again, it's possible to have intelligent conversations without being pretentious... though honestly, I think pretentiousness is sometimes more imaginary than real. Sometimes when A accuses B of being pretentious, it's because B happens to be better informed about a given subject than A does, and A isn't humble enough to admit this.

Because if a discussion is merely an exchange of ideas or a good time instead of a battle for supposed intellectual superiority, it instantly makes you an illiterate idiot? Huh. I didn't know that enjoying oneself without feeling the need to posture makes you stupid. That's new.

Ed never said anything about wanting to engage in battles for intellectual superiority. "Exchanges of ideas" are exactly what he wants to see more of.

People who engage in intelligent discussions are not deliberately trying to be pretentious, or to show how much they know. An intelligent conversation involves advanced concepts and difficult, non-obvious ideas; that's what makes it interesting. If you find that a given discussion is above your level, then the solution is not to complain about pretentiousness, but to educate yourself further so that you can understand what's being discussed.

[pennywisdom]

As for your comment about the TCJers, I think I understand what you mean: the TCJ boards are so hostile and unfriendly that they give intelligent discussion a bad name.
Yes. Very true.

But no one wants CBR to be like that. Contrary to the example of the TCJ boards, it's possible to engage in intelligent conversation while also maintaining a polite, respectful atmosphere.
I agree wholeheartedly. This is why I find the idea of a CBR board that emulates TCJ to be off-putting.

Again, it's possible to have intelligent conversations without being pretentious... though honestly, I think pretentiousness is sometimes more imaginary than real. Sometimes when A accuses B of being pretentious, it's because B happens to be better informed about a given subject than A does, and A isn't humble enough to admit this.
Right. There are all kinds of possible scenarios where either A or B might be either intelligent, idiots posing as smart people, or just trolls. The fact that sometimes people who don't know what they're talking about accuse honestly intelligent people of being snooty doesn't change the fact that starting a board specifically dedicated to posters who want to flaunt their big brains is an open invitation for people to act like jerks.

People who appreciate brains are smart. People who enjoy flaunting intellgence in public are braggarts and usually dicks. People in the second category would be more attracted to the proposed board, because genuine intelligence can be appreciated anywhere from the Spider-Man board, to YABS, to Comm. You can have intelligent conversation on "Comics Should Be Good" and you can have intelligent conversation on the Batman board. Starting a board specifically for "intelligent conversation" would just attract people who are obsessed with intellectual self-gratification and view intelligence as a cultural and social delineator.

I hate people who use intelligence as a fashion statement. This isn't high school.

Ed never said anything about wanting to engage in battles for intellectual superiority. "Exchanges of ideas" are exactly what he wants to see more of.
Then improve the quality of conversation around here. Having a special board for smart conversation is the same as saying all people with a certain IQ should move to a certain state and people who are below a certain IQ should go somewhere else. Fuck elitism.

People who engage in intelligent discussions are not deliberately trying to be pretentious, or to show how much they know.
I know that. People who engage in a boasting match, however, usually are deliberately trying to be pretentious and show how much they know and those people are assholes. I know exactly who would post on a TCJ-style board.

An intelligent conversation involves advanced concepts and difficult, non-obvious ideas; that's what makes it interesting. If you find that a given discussion is above your level, then the solution is not to complain about pretentiousness, but to educate yourself further so that you can understand what's being discussed.
Thanks, dad. I'm going to go back to my coloring books now.

[Joe Rice]

pw, this isn't about whatever thing has gotten you mad in the past. We're not going to get the board anyway, and CBR's comic discussion, no matter how many people try otherwise, is still going to be IT ROXXXX vs. IT SUXXXXX. No reason to get all snippy about it. The big bad elitists aren't welcome anyway.

[Ed Cunard]

There's nothing wrong at all with smart conversation... it's the fact that many people say "smart conversation" when they mean "preening pretentiousness". No, the latter is not fun at all.

For you, tiger, maybe. For me? An utter blast.

Because if a discussion is merely an exchange of ideas or a good time instead of a battle for supposed intellectual superiority, it instantly makes you an illiterate idiot? Huh. I didn't know that enjoying oneself without feeling the need to posture makes you stupid. That's new.

Pretty much, yes. The thing is, for me to type "dude thaz badass r0xx0rs," I'd have to engage in posturing myself. Seriously, just because people want to talk theme, craft or metatextuality, it doesn't mean they're engaging in "a battle for supposed intellectual superiority."

As for your comment about the TCJers, I think I understand what you mean: the TCJ boards are so hostile and unfriendly that they give intelligent discussion a bad name. But no one wants CBR to be like that. Contrary to the example of the TCJ boards, it's possible to engage in intelligent conversation while also maintaining a polite, respectful atmosphere.

In fairness, I've seen some great discussions at TCJ's board. Like any board, it has it's upsides and downsides.

Ed never said anything about wanting to engage in battles for intellectual superiority. "Exchanges of ideas" are exactly what he wants to see more of.

Oh, no. I want the battle. I have bloodlust. Someone pick the arena and do it quickly--I'm armed with crazy grammar knowledge and a bag full of punctuation marks.

I know that. People who engage in a boasting match, however, usually are deliberately trying to be pretentious and show how much they know and those people are assholes. I know exactly who would post on a TCJ-style board.

Again, how does "talking comics theory and craft from a quasi-academic perspective" instantly become a "boasting match"?

[Kid Omega]

You're the one who suggesting calling it "Comics Snob". If the title is an insult, what would you expect but negativity?


It was a joke. Specifically because Cunard has spoken many times about "elitism" not being inherently bad when it comes to judging art.


And if you think my last post was rude, then the TCJer's would truly ruin your day. Starting a forum dedicated to "snobs" is an inherently flawed idea to begin with.


Again, that name was a joke.


There's nothing wrong at all with smart conversation... it's the fact that many people say "smart conversation" when they mean "preening pretentiousness". No, the latter is not fun at all.


Well, that's not what I meant. I actually meant "smart conversation" (which we often have on this board, and others), and not "preening pretentiousness". If you think I meant otherwise, that's your hang-up.
(And is it really a fact that many people say one and mean the other? That's interesting....)


Because if a discussion is merely an exchange of ideas or a good time instead of a battle for supposed intellectual superiority, it instantly makes you an illiterate idiot? Huh. I didn't know that enjoying oneself without feeling the need to posture makes you stupid. That's new.


What!? Where are finding this stuff?

It was just a suggestion, dude. No need to turn it into Intellectual Class War 2006.

[Winslow]

Again, how does "talking comics theory and craft from a quasi-academic perspective" instantly become a "boasting match"?

Pennywisdom is offering anecdotal observations about what has happened with forums devoted to that kind of stuff in that past.

I think he has a point.

I'm not sure it's "inevitable." But I think his concern has merit.

[Kid Omega]

I hate people who use intelligence as a fashion statement. This isn't high school.


No. It's not. So why play the angry picked-on kid?

It was just a suggestion, and you're using it as a ground to lash out at anyone you percieve as "elitist".

It's not high school, and we're all adults. We can discuss a forum for in-depth critique without it being a personal insult to you.


Then improve the quality of conversation around here. Having a special board for smart conversation is the same as saying all people with a certain IQ should move to a certain state and people who are below a certain IQ should go somewhere else. Fuck elitism.


It is? It's the same as that? No wait... It's not at all.


I know that. People who engage in a boasting match, however, usually are deliberately trying to be pretentious and show how much they know and those people are assholes. I know exactly who would post on a TCJ-style board.


Who, praytell, would that be? And where did you get all this insight?

I'd like to know so that we can have an idea who these "assholes" are. We could burn them at the stake or something.

[Kid Omega]

Pennywisdom is offering anecdotal observations about what has happened with forums devoted to that kind of stuff in that past.


Winslow, you are a good guy for being diplomatic. But he's not doing that at all. He's using this thread to tilt at Elitist Windmills and make vague (and not-so-vague) insults at people who wouldn't mind the idea of a more in-depth discussion forum.

I'm not sure why he's being so defensive and angry, but in the end it was a simple suggestion that isn't going to happen anyway. PW is lashing out with a lot of inferred insults and negative assumptions where there aren't really any to be had.

And he's being insulting along the way, essentially doing what he's railing against.


I think he has a point.

I'm not sure it's "inevitable." But I think his concern has merit.

I think either way it's a moot point, since the forum isn't ever going to happen.

But his concerns seem more rooted in insulting people with blanket condemnation than anything ya know, actually productive. So I wnoder where the merit is.

[Ed Cunard]

Pennywisdom is offering anecdotal observations about what has happened with forums devoted to that kind of stuff in that past.

[. . .]

But I think his concern has merit.

And I totally disagree--look at the verbiage:

The fact that sometimes people who don't know what they're talking about accuse honestly intelligent people of being snooty doesn't change the fact that starting a board specifically dedicated to posters who want to flaunt their big brains is an open invitation for people to act like jerks.

If someone on the Comm board were to say the same thing about the Rumbles board (example: "having a board dedicated to posters who want to flaunt their comprehensive knowledge of superhero continuity in a battle-type setting is an open invitation for people to act like there is actual combat at stake"), I imagine there would be a backlash, and rightly so.

I think either way it's a moot point, since the forum isn't ever going to happen.

And I still think it's good that it won't--I mean, I still don't think there's enough interest to actually sustain one judging from the lack of those topics in this forum and, besides, who'd want to post in the forum anyway? Only people who want a big "Elitist" sign taped to their backs, that's who. And we hate them.

[Kid Omega]

In the end, I think having a forum where you can

-post reviews
-post essays
-have discussions about form, media, genre, construction, craft etc...
-really crack open why things work and why they don't

would be a pretty cool thing. Despite the comments to the contrary, the COMICS MEDIUM forum on the TCJ boards has had some amazing discussions. And here, within the JOE RICE MEDIA REVIEWs and Jack Zodiac's BEST BOOK YOU READ threads, we will often have tangential conversations about specific books that are really interesting.

In my heart, I see a board where those conversations get split, and become expanded threads aunto themsleves.

It might not get a lot of traffic, but then again, that might be a good thing. Threads might be on the front page longer, and allowed to breathe a little.

But whatever.

Matt and Brian gave a pretty good explanation why it's not feasible/practical and that's that.

Moot point.

[Ed Cunard]

\would be a pretty cool thing. Despite the comments to the contrary, the COMICS MEDIUM forum on the TCJ boards has had some amazing discussions. And here, within the JOE RICE MEDIA REVIEWs and Jack Zodiac's BEST BOOK YOU READ threads, we will often have tangential conversations about specific books that are really interesting.

Yeah, those threads are generally good reads.

You know what's funny about the discussions at the COMICS MEDIUM forum? They always take a turn for the worse when that one guy starts posting his "Fuck art comics! They all suck! Buy my comics instead!" posts.

[mattbib]

In the end, I think having a forum where you can

-post reviews
-post essays
-have discussions about form, media, genre, construction, craft etc...
-really crack open why things work and why they don't

would be a pretty cool thing. Despite the comments to the contrary, the COMICS MEDIUM forum on the TCJ boards has had some amazing discussions. And here, within the JOE RICE MEDIA REVIEWs and Jack Zodiac's BEST BOOK YOU READ threads, we will often have tangential conversations about specific books that are really interesting.

In my heart, I see a board where those conversations get split, and become expanded threads aunto themsleves.

It might not get a lot of traffic, but then again, that might be a good thing. Threads might be on the front page longer, and allowed to breathe a little.With the above description, I think I agree that this kind of stuff would be a great fit for the Comics Should Be Good forum (assuming the blog-owners would be amenable to expanding the breadth of their forum). Even reviews (though I don't see why these couldn't go on the publisher-specific forums).

[Winslow]

In the end, I think having a forum where you can

-post reviews
-post essays
-have discussions about form, media, genre, construction, craft etc...
-really crack open why things work and why they don't

would be a pretty cool thing. Despite the comments to the contrary, the COMICS MEDIUM forum on the TCJ boards has had some amazing discussions. And here, within the JOE RICE MEDIA REVIEWs and Jack Zodiac's BEST BOOK YOU READ threads, we will often have tangential conversations about specific books that are really interesting.

In my heart, I see a board where those conversations get split, and become expanded threads aunto themsleves.

It might not get a lot of traffic, but then again, that might be a good thing. Threads might be on the front page longer, and allowed to breathe a little.

But whatever.

Matt and Brian gave a pretty good explanation why it's not feasible/practical and that's that.

Moot point.

You're starting to sway me.

I don't read pamphelts, and as a trade reader of usually Indy/ small press, it's hard to get any kind of discussion going here (hence my HUGE post count in the Comm forum).

[Matt Algren]

You're starting to sway me.

I don't read pamphelts, and as a trade reader of usually Indy/ small press, it's hard to get any kind of discussion going here (hence my HUGE post count in the Comm forum).
Winslow, you're such a snob.

Put me down as liking the idea. It's not going to happen, though, and I think this thread is a good example of a reason. Even talking about talking about comics as art form turned nasty in what, three pages?

[Kid Omega]

Winslow, you're such a snob.

Put me down as liking the idea. It's not going to happen, though, and I think this thread is a good example of a reason. Even talking about talking about comics as art form turned nasty in what, three pages?

Hahaha... good point, my man.

But in all fairness, a mod could ban someone who only wanted to pop into a forum and shout "elitist!" and "pretentious psuedo-intellectuals!" or whatever...

I mean, again, it's not going to happen, so it doesn't matter. But we shouldn't let one guy with a windmill to tilt sour the whole concept...

[K'Nort]

Pennywisdom is offering anecdotal observations about what has happened with forums devoted to that kind of stuff in that past.

I think he has a point.

I'm not sure it's "inevitable." But I think his concern has merit.

That's no excuse for knee-jerk accusing other people on a totally different website of the same sins. Especially when he's clearly never read their prior posts.

And how the heck can someone who regularly points out people's typos turn around and accuse others of pointless elitism?

[pennywisdom]

For the record, if you re-read my posts, you'll see I'm not against the concept of comics as art, and I'm not against the concept of discussing the nuts and bolts of comics as an artform. I'm for those things, but I think everyone here is perfectly capable of doing that within the context of the current system we have in place.

What I am against is drawing arbitrary and clique-oriented social boundaries between those who perceive themselves as intelligent to such a degree that they feel the need to advertise their intellect publically and those that don't "make the cut". This is social gerrymandering and it stops seeming like a good idea the moment you realize that the "table system" in high school is bullshit and completely invalid.

You make your own intelligent conversation where you go. If anything, CBR should be less cliquey.

Yes, it's possible to have intelligent and though provoking conversation without resorting to a childish "I'm smarter than you" boasting match. We see it on these boards all the time. We also see people who feel the need to look down their snoots at everyone just because they've fashioned for themselves a social identity as the resident "smart guy". I feel the board would attract more of the latter category and less of the former. You guys are right in that this is a prediction of mine, and not a guaranteed fact. If I presented my opinion as fact, I apologize. I shouldn't have done that. But we are talking about a hypothetical, so speculation can be expected.

As for my having an axe to grind, I don't although I would like to apologize for my snarky tone while posting last night. That was totally uncalled for and I regret it. Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to flame, so if this thread's become unnecessarily venomous, it's a by-product of me stating my case too emphatically. Mea culpa. I take the blame.

But his concerns seem more rooted in insulting people with blanket condemnation
That, to me, seems like what many people unfairly do to fans of superhero comics.

In the end, I think having a forum where you can

-post reviews
-post essays
-have discussions about form, media, genre, construction, craft etc...
-really crack open why things work and why they don't

would be a pretty cool thing. Despite the comments to the contrary, the COMICS MEDIUM forum on the TCJ boards has had some amazing discussions. And here, within the JOE RICE MEDIA REVIEWs and Jack Zodiac's BEST BOOK YOU READ threads, we will often have tangential conversations about specific books that are really interesting.
Again, I never said I'm against those things. That sounds great. By why a new board? You can do that here or anywhere. The only purpose the board would serve is to collect people who perceive themselves as being smarter and more qualified to discuss said topics.

And how the heck can someone who regularly points out people's typos turn around and accuse others of pointless elitism?
"Regularly" is a bit much. And it's just a joke. Don't take it seriously.

[Dan Apodaca]

I'm not getting into the middle of this, by any means, but I feel like I should note that when you start bringing accusations of "cliquish" behavior into it, it severely weakens your argument.

[pennywisdom]

I'm not getting into the middle of this, by any means, but I feel like I should note that when you start bringing accusations of "cliquish" behavior into it, it severely weakens your argument.
What do you mean by that?

[Dan Apodaca]

What do you mean by that?

It's a whiny argument that has no foundation. You can't get mad at people for choosing to associate with people they like, and no one should be forced to associate with people they don't. Just because we're all on CBR, doesn't mean we all have to be friends, or even talk to each other.

It sounds like "Why won't you play with ME?! You HAVE to play with me! I wanna be included!"

[pennywisdom]

It's a whiny argument that has no foundation. You can't get mad at people for choosing to associate with people they like, and no one should be forced to associate with people they don't. Just because we're all on CBR, doesn't mean we all have to be friends, or even talk to each other.

It sounds like "Why won't you play with ME?! You HAVE to play with me! I wanna be included!"
No, no. That's not it at all. I completely understand that everyone will naturally divide themselves up into groups based on who they like and who they don't. That's understandable, acceptable, and it happens in every social situation. My only complaint is that the situation can become too cliquey and innappropriately cliquey when people begin to divide themselves up out of spite, childishness, or a presumed and largely bogus feeling of superiority. That's just fucking sixth grade.

[Dan Apodaca]

No, no. That's not it at all. I completely understand that everyone will naturally divide themselves up into groups based on who they like and who they don't. That's understandable, acceptable, and it happens in every social situation. My only complaint is that the situation can become too cliquey and innappropriately cliquey when people begin to divide themselves up out of spite, childishness, or a presumed and largely bogus feeling of superiority. That's just fucking sixth grade.

Well, no. It's society.

It's not a matter of opinion, that if you start a thread to discuss matters of art on the comm board, you're guaranteed to get posts about hair metal and tits in there. That's a proven fact. Can you really hold it against someone for wanting to talk about the craft without that shit getting dropped in the middle of it?

Why is it childish to want to get away from someone you don't like? Sounds more like "mentally healthy" to me.

And you know what? That feeling of superiority is not largely bogus. The people who have that false sense of worth are the ones who want to show it off to everyone around, not the ones who want to escape to their own corner and hang out with like-minded individuals.

[pennywisdom]

It's not a matter of opinion, that if you start a thread to discuss matters of art on the comm board, you're guaranteed to get posts about hair metal and tits in there. That's a proven fact. Can you really hold it against someone for wanting to talk about the craft without that shit getting dropped in the middle of it?
The "Ignore" function lets you avoid posts written by whomever you want and the mere act of skipping stupid posts let you avoid reading crap you don't like. There's no need for segregation.

Why is it childish to want to get away from someone you don't like? Sounds more like "mentally healthy" to me.
Again, use "Ignore".

And you know what? That feeling of superiority is not largely bogus. The people who have that false sense of worth are the ones who want to show it off to everyone around, not the ones who want to escape to their own corner and hang out with like-minded individuals.
The people who have that false sense of worth might be looking to show it off around everyone else on a board specifically dedicated to showing off one's false sense of worth.

[Dan Apodaca]

The "Ignore" function lets you avoid posts written by whomever you want and the mere act of skipping stupid posts let you avoid reading crap you don't like. There's no need for segregation.

Of course there is. That's why there are separate boards for different comics and characters, as well as the community board for discussing non-comic things.

The people who have that false sense of worth might be looking to show it off around everyone else on a board specifically dedicated to showing off one's false sense of worth.

Nope. If they were, they'd be on Rumbles.

[pennywisdom]

Of course there is. That's why there are separate boards for different comics and characters, as well as the community board for discussing non-comic things.
There are not, technically, separate boards for "Smart People Who Like Comics" and "Everyone Else Who Likes Comics".


Nope. If they were, they'd be on Rumbles.
I'm not going to defend the Rumbles board by any means, but I think many of the conversations between phony half-intellectuals who like to strut their stuff are equally as productive and enlightening as "Darkseid vs. Thanos".

Besides, what would you know? You're a complete carwreck of a person and a pointless dickweed.

[Dan Apodaca]

There are not, technically, separate boards for "Smart People Who Like Comics" and "Everyone Else Who Likes Comics".

Well, isn't that the whole reason for this thread?

I'm not going to defend the Rumbles board by any means, but I think many of the conversations between phony half-intellectuals who like to strut their stuff are equally as productive and enlightening as "Darkseid vs. Thanos".

I'd agree, if I thought that any of the people in favor of the board were phony half-intellectuals. I don't know Kid Kyoto at all, so he could very well be, but I guarantee you that Kid Omega is verifiably smart. I've met him. He knows about stuff. Ed Cunard is also absolutely, authentically smart. Have you checked out his newer blog? I hate myself for forgetting the name. Graphic Language, maybe? Anyway, it's a fantastic site, which demonstrates his high level of knowledge. If he wanted to show off, don't you think he'd be bragging about it here?

Besides, what would you know? You're a complete carwreck of a person and a pointless dickweed.

That's what I hear.

[pennywisdom]

I'd agree, if I thought that any of the people in favor of the board were phony half-intellectuals. I don't know Kid Kyoto at all, so he could very well be, but I guarantee you that Kid Omega is verifiably smart. I've met him. He knows about stuff. Ed Cunard is also absolutely, authentically smart. Have you checked out his newer blog? I hate myself for forgetting the name. Graphic Language, maybe? Anyway, it's a fantastic site, which demonstrates his high level of knowledge. If he wanted to show off, don't you think he'd be bragging about it here?
I think a big reason for the hostility on this thread is that Kid Omega and Ed might think I'm specifically and deliberately insulting them as individuals. That's not the case. I have no reason at all to insult Kid Omega, Ed, or anyone else who is in favor of this idea, and that's not my intent. I'm sorry if I've come off that way.

I'm just saying that with the nature of the internet and the nature of comic book fans, a board dedicated to publically showing how smart you are and how much you know about comics would probaby attract smug, pretentious asshats who probably don't deserve the self-gratification they receive by affecting an intellectual voice. Dickheads would come out of the woodwork.

Then again, it's all moot and I don't feel the need to talk about it anymore. I'm seeing now I shouldn't have automatically had such a negative and vehement opposition to this idea, but I still think it's a bad idea. I dunno. It's not going to happen anyway, so I'm not worried about it.

[Brian Cronin]

While that wasn't the awesomest debate, it's at least over, so that's nice.

Feel free to discuss the topic of the thread some more if you all would like, though!

Oh, and no making fun of the Rumbles board!

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

With the above description, I think I agree that this kind of stuff would be a great fit for the Comics Should Be Good forum (assuming the blog-owners would be amenable to expanding the breadth of their forum). Even reviews (though I don't see why these couldn't go on the publisher-specific forums).

The Comics Should Be Good forum is only for threads about how awesome I am.

Seriously, though, yeah, you could post all those threads Alex described on the Comics Should Be Good forum, but you could also post them here, too (and here you get more traffic).

I certainly can see the appeal of wanting a smaller space to discuss stuff like that, though. A more intimate feel.

Then again, I can also see the appeal of wanting the largest audience possible to see your thread, as that gives you a larger audience to discuss your points, even if it means idiots will discuss your points, too.

It's basically all rhetorical, as it won't be happening (we even took out the Corrie category for "What board would you like to see?" because we never added the choices, so it just seemed silly to ask people every year), but nothing wrong with some rhetoric!

-Brian

[Joe Rice]

I think the proposed distinction was not "smart folk vs. dumb folk." It was more "Folk who want to talk about craft or meaning and folk who are simply enjoying their entertainment." It's not necessarily a judgement call.

[Ed Cunard]

I think a big reason for the hostility on this thread is that Kid Omega and Ed might think I'm specifically and deliberately insulting them as individuals. That's not the case. I have no reason at all to insult Kid Omega, Ed, or anyone else who is in favor of this idea, and that's not my intent. I'm sorry if I've come off that way.

For what it's worth, I didn't feel insulted. I just disagree with just about all of your assessments.
Have you checked out his newer blog? I hate myself for forgetting the name. Graphic Language, maybe? Anyway, it's a fantastic site, which demonstrates his high level of knowledge. If he wanted to show off, don't you think he'd be bragging about it here?

Thanks, Dan. That blog is currently on hiatus, as everyone else quit on me and I'm busy with graduate school--that's why I pulled the signature plug. The archives are still there (http://graphiclanguage.blogspot.com), though, including the interview with Fellow Apodaca-Approved Smart Person Alex "Kid Omega" Cox.

I'm just saying that with the nature of the internet and the nature of comic book fans, a board dedicated to publically showing how smart you are and how much you know about comics would probaby attract smug, pretentious asshats who probably don't deserve the self-gratification they receive by affecting an intellectual voice. Dickheads would come out of the woodwork.

But that wouldn't be the point of this not-happening-hypothetical board. No where does it say "ONLY SMART PEOPLE TALK HERE," and I'm the only (one of the only?) one to mention how it'd be nice (if impractical) to be able to have a dedicated spot for that specific type of conversation without having to wade through a lot of posts written (well, using the term loosely, in some cases) about how much someone enjoyed something. There's nothing wrong with the latter approach--I do it myself, so I can't completely look down on it from my high horse.

[Ed Cunard]

The Comics Should Be Good forum is only for threads about how awesome I am.

So that's why it's so dead.

[Kid Omega]

For the record, if you re-read my posts, you'll see I'm not against the concept of comics as art, and I'm not against the concept of discussing the nuts and bolts of comics as an artform. I'm for those things, but I think everyone here is perfectly capable of doing that within the context of the current system we have in place.


Okay. That's fine. You probably could have made that point without bitching about alleged "intellectual superiority" and "elitism".


What I am against is drawing arbitrary and clique-oriented social boundaries between those who perceive themselves as intelligent to such a degree that they feel the need to advertise their intellect publically and those that don't "make the cut". This is social gerrymandering and it stops seeming like a good idea the moment you realize that the "table system" in high school is bullshit and completely invalid.


Again, this is all your hang-up, man. No one suggesting anything like what you describe, and the entire above paragraph is fashioned entirely from your brain and your own insecurities.


You make your own intelligent conversation where you go. If anything, CBR should be less cliquey.


Oh my lord. That old saw. So you're not actually discussing a new forum at all, are you? This is all about percieved social slights.


That, to me, seems like what many people unfairly do to fans of superhero comics.


Again, percieved social slights. I see no unfair treatment of superhero fans here. Last I checked, almost everyone here reads superhero comics. And talk about "fair".... You took what was a straighforward forum suggestion on my part, and turned it into a vindictive pissing match, assuming all sorts of negative intent on my part with no good cause. How fair is that?


Again, I never said I'm against those things. That sounds great. By why a new board? You can do that here or anywhere. The only purpose the board would serve is to collect people who perceive themselves as being smarter and more qualified to discuss said topics.


ONCE AGAIN, you talk in absolutes, as if you and only you know what this board-that-won't-happen will be like. The "only purpose"?

I really don't know why you're so determined to position yourself as the champ of the little guy who just wants to talk about spidey, but gets shouted down by mean ol' elitists and "people who perceive themselves as being smarter". Neither of those things actually exist, and the more you box at the shadows, the more you come across as a petty, insecure guy, still working out his frustrations from high school.

I don't know you, but I assume that there's more to you than that.

[Kid Omega]

I think a big reason for the hostility on this thread is that Kid Omega and Ed might think I'm specifically and deliberately insulting them as individuals. That's not the case. I have no reason at all to insult Kid Omega, Ed, or anyone else who is in favor of this idea, and that's not my intent. I'm sorry if I've come off that way.


Here's the thing- you apologized once, and then went on to say things like:

"My only complaint is that the situation can become too cliquey and innappropriately cliquey when people begin to divide themselves up out of spite, childishness, or a presumed and largely bogus feeling of superiority. That's just fucking sixth grade."

"The people who have that false sense of worth might be looking to show it off around everyone else on a board specifically dedicated to showing off one's false sense of worth."

and in this very post you say:

"a board dedicated to publically showing how smart you are and how much you know about comics would "

As the person who suggested said forum, how am i not supposed to feel insulted? You keep apologizing, and then keep saying the same insulting things, and making the same incorrect assumptions. Even after I've said again and again that my intent in suggesting this is not setting up a haven for "people who have that false sense of worth".

I'm not sure why you have this burning need to vaguely insult anyone in favor of this idea, but this isn't sixth grade (as you keep pointing out), and no one is excluding you from any reindeer games. So you can drop the "clique" nonsense, and if you're pissed at people with a "largely bogus feeling of superiority", then actually call them on it, rather than aimlessly tilting your windmills here, where it absolutely doesn't matter.

[Matt Algren]

We already knew it, but here's word from the top:Let me clear up a couple of things here. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3736374&postcount=10)

First off, the Community Forum would be the perfect place to discuss any general industry matters you may like. Industry specific stufff will go over fine there. Any and all discussion that's not related to a specific publisher book can be made on that forum.

As for the Comics Should Be Good forum, really that's just a forum for the community that blog has built up to discuss whatever they want. The Community Forum should be your place to discuss exactly the types of things Kid Kyoto first asked about.

I'm very hesitant to add even more forums at this point as I don't want to fracture the conversation any more.I'm not touching any of the rest of it except to say that pennywisdom had a great idea.
The "Ignore" function lets you avoid posts written by whomever you want and the mere act of skipping stupid posts let you avoid reading crap you don't like.

[Kid Omega]

We already knew it, but here's word from the top

I understand why it won't happen, and it all makes sense.

I just resent having my suggestion turned into a soapbox for someone with an axe to grind.

[Dreadstar]

After having spent a day reading the Comics SHould Be Good forum, I'm going to weigh in and say that we don't need an industry forum. Between the Comm and CSBG, that's plenty of soapbox space.

[Matt Algren]

I understand why it won't happen, and it all makes sense.

I just resent having my suggestion turned into a soapbox for someone with an axe to grind.
I agree.

Also, this just in, boobies and bottoms are awesome. We don't spend nearly enough time talking about them.

[Kid Omega]

I agree.

Also, this just in, boobies and bottoms are awesome. We don't spend nearly enough time talking about them.

I would also like to point out that Conservatives are Stupid, Religion is Illogical, and the Industry is Dying.

Those topics don't get enough face time either.

[Brian Cronin]

I think the proposed distinction was not "smart folk vs. dumb folk." It was more "Folk who want to talk about craft or meaning and folk who are simply enjoying their entertainment." It's not necessarily a judgement call.

Fair point.

-Brian