Beta Ray Bill......has gotta be p1$$ed

[Verminous]

Ok so how long is it gonna be before he gets involved after seeing what the pro-reg side has done to the memory of his oath-brother Thor, maybe this ties into Omega Flight seeing as Civil War leads into that title.:confused:

[CyberCoyote]

Ok so how long is it gonna be before he gets involved after seeing what the pro-reg side has done to the memory of his oath-brother Thor, maybe this ties into Omega Flight seeing as Civil War leads into that title.:confused:

I think long before Bill catches wind of this the Clor'll be destroyed by either the real Mcoy or someone else (I wanted Ben Grimm to walts up to that thing and crush it where it stood for murdering his long time friend. Then slap reed into next month)

Then again..is this thing a biological clone (alive) or a synthetic one? A lot of the uproar is the slave like state it's in. If it's a real living thing they created then there's SO much more (in a bad way) to be upset about with Reed and company treating him the way they do. It killed Bill (hey Kiddo), but if it's a real living being then no one's more at fault than those that made it. It's basically their child and probably not more than a few months old.

But if it weren't taken care of and BRB found out I'd suspect he'd be pretty ticked. Then again isn't Bill gentically engineered? He might see something of a kinship with the creation but have nothing but contempt for the creators.

[shaunyc56]

I think long before Bill catches wind of this the Clor'll be destroyed by either the real Mcoy or someone else (I wanted Ben Grimm to walts up to that thing and crush it where it stood for murdering his long time friend. Then slap reed into next month)

Then again..is this thing a biological clone (alive) or a synthetic one? A lot of the uproar is the slave like state it's in. If it's a real living thing they created then there's SO much more (in a bad way) to be upset about with Reed and company treating him the way they do. It killed Bill (hey Kiddo), but if it's a real living being then no one's more at fault than those that made it. It's basically their child and probably not more than a few months old.

But if it weren't taken care of and BRB found out I'd suspect he'd be pretty ticked. Then again isn't Bill gentically engineered? He might see something of a kinship with the creation but have nothing but contempt for the creators.


That last part you wrote just intrigued the hell out of me. Maybe BRB shown trying to get the Clor to embrace free will and rise up against his tyrannical creators. Of course it doesn't work because the level of programming would be so deep, but in the end the Clor would redeem itself in a heroic self sacrafice against Irondouche.

[Thursaiz]

I do think that Bill will feel sorry for Clor, and go after his creators for ruining the memory of his blood-brother.

I keep wondering if Marvel plans on using the Clor as the actual Thor in the new ongoing series. I mean, what better vessel for Odin to plant the soul of the real Thor in than a perfect clone? I mean, if Clor can get to Mjollnir, will he be able to lift it?

Also, now that Thor has 'returned', are his enemies going to come crawling out of the woodwork? I can see it now...in the next combat engagement, the Midgard Serpent annhilates the Pro forces and goes after Clor.

[Gregg Helmberger]

I do think that Bill will feel sorry for Clor, and go after his creators for ruining the memory of his blood-brother.

I keep wondering if Marvel plans on using the Clor as the actual Thor in the new ongoing series. I mean, what better vessel for Odin to plant the soul of the real Thor in than a perfect clone? I mean, if Clor can get to Mjollnir, will he be able to lift it?

Also, now that Thor has 'returned', are his enemies going to come crawling out of the woodwork? I can see it now...in the next combat engagement, the Midgard Serpent annhilates the Pro forces and goes after Clor.

The evil murdering thunder monster will not be the new Thor in the ongoing series, but Millar has stated that it survives the Civil War and that he hopes to see it become a permanent player in the MU.

[Morw]

Maybe it will start to develop a sense of Idenity. Kinda like a Thor's version of "Ben Riley"

[XPac]

It's kinda sad that everyone that's angry over the Thor clone murdering Goliath is more about because of their association with Thor than Goliath.

The closest thing Goliath had to a friend is seemingly Pym and he's one of the guys that sent the Thor Clone out there to begin with. So he won't be going out and fighting to avenge Goliath's death anytime soon.

[Alpow]

It's kinda sad that everyone that's angry over the Thor clone murdering Goliath is more about because of their association with Thor than Goliath.

The closest thing Goliath had to a friend is seemingly Pym and he's one of the guys that sent the Thor Clone out there to begin with. So he won't be going out and fighting to avenge Goliath's death anytime soon.
Weren't Ben Grimm and Goliath friends as well?

[Beast]

Maybe it will start to develop a sense of Idenity. Kinda like a Thor's version of "Ben Riley"
Yeah, cause we needed another 'Clone Saga'. Hooboy.

[XPac]

Weren't Ben Grimm and Goliath friends as well?

Uh... possible. Ben Grimm is pretty much friends with everybody.

Goliaths death was enough to get Sue and Johnney to quit, and it could very well have been a major factor in Thing heading off to France.

That said, I don't think anyone was close enough to Goliath to really milk the death for any kind of substantial story. Maybe I'm wrong... Goliath isn't exactly a character whose career I've really followed to any detail.

[kalorama]

Uh... possible. Ben Grimm is pretty much friends with everybody.

Goliaths death was enough to get Sue and Johnney to quit, and it could very well have been a major factor in Thing heading off to France.

Ben made the decision to leave the country before Foster was killed.

It's kinda sad that everyone that's angry over the Thor clone murdering Goliath is more about because of their association with Thor than Goliath.

The closest thing Goliath had to a friend is seemingly Pym and he's one of the guys that sent the Thor Clone out there to begin with. So he won't be going out and fighting to avenge Goliath's death anytime soon.

One potentially interesting dangling thread is the fact that Luke Cage's old girlfriend was also Bill Foster's ex-wife. It would make a nice, human aside to see Cage delivering news of Foster's death to her.

[Shyft]

Ben made the decision to leave the country before Foster was killed.



One potentially interesting dangling thread is the fact that Luke Cage's old girlfriend was also Bill Foster's ex-wife. It would make a nice, human aside to see Cage delivering news of Foster's death to her.


I could be wrong, but doesnt Ben leave the day after the Ambush, when the Pro's are escorting the anti prisoners, and that Yancy Street kid gets killed?


Also, i dont think this "Clor" is the returned THor. We saw someone actually pick up Mjolnir, whereas in CW#4 we see the hammer Clor used is a mechainical replica. This makes me think the real Thor is still out there....

[XPac]

Ben made the decision to leave the country before Foster was killed.




If he made the decision that the registration was wrong prior to that battle, it's kinda lame that he decided to take a part in it anyways.

[EZMOHR]

I don't know if it has been said, but the eyes the Clor gave when it was laying down at the end....it was creepy looking. This Clor is just a kid. It is a innocent.

[CyberCoyote]

The timeline's wonky, but Ben was there when Bill died. Bill's a very good friend of his and it's just another character problem as he stands in the background doing and saying nothing as his oldest friend's creation kills his 'biggest' pal.

When Reed goes into his own little world (and he's never gone this far off without the Overmind controlling him)it's Ben that gets in his face and sets his butt back on the right path. But that's not the way it works in teh Ultimate U so it ain't the way it works for Millar.

Speaking of Bill, though. If he was on earth when the Hammer hit and everyone was trying to lift it HE should have come and taken it. He can wield it just fine AND would want to protect the last remnant of Asgard from others.

[Donald Stone]

Also, i dont think this "Clor" is the returned THor. We saw someone actually pick up Mjolnir, whereas in CW#4 we see the hammer Clor used is a mechainical replica. This makes me think the real Thor is still out there....So it was a great idea of Tony and Reed's to clone Thor and make believe that the real one was fighting on their side when they know that someone picked up Mjolnir, and the list of folks who can do that is really, really short.

[kcaroli]

Although I don't own the issues I did read at least Dooms attempt to get the hammer in FF 536-537.I've seen rief excerpts of 538 involving those trying to lift the hammer too.But recently I read that despite the publcation sequence and doubtless due to the delays for CW 4 in FF 538-39 it supposedly reveals that it took place after the battle in CW 3/4.If so D.B. hasn't picked up Mjolnir when Clor is let loose on the antiregs.Thus Reed, Hank and Tony all think Thor is dead at that point and know only of the hammer's fall.That leads me to wonder if D.B.'s retrieval of the hammer is not in some way in response to what took place in CW4.Oemig invoked memory of Blakes contribution to Thor's being able to end the Ragnarok cycle as Odin planned.JMS has said Blake will be part of the new series. That suggests the theory some have mentioned that Rune Thor recreated Blake before enterring his equivalent of the Odin sleep or during it, knowing his rebuilding of a new Asgard would involve Earth.I guess we'll see eventually.Millar's comments about Clor hint he might be that enemy for Thor previously suggested.

[Doom Hammer]

I hope to see a Ragnarok-esque moment at some point.

"Who -- dares -- lay -- hand -- on -- the Mighty -- THOR?!...

...'s DNA?!"

[Alphan76]

Speaking of Bill, though. If he was on earth when the Hammer hit and everyone was trying to lift it HE should have come and taken it. He can wield it just fine AND would want to protect the last remnant of Asgard from others.

EXACTLY!!!! Why didn't Bill show up??
Given Bill's character, I believe that if he faces Clor, Clor will be given that one chance to stand down. After that...Bill will destroy that souless thing! I would love for Beta Ray Bill to join Cap's side! But then, maybe, just maybe, Bill is with Thor right now. Mjolinir has been claimed after all and I find it hard to believe that Bill would not have sensed that.

[CyberCoyote]

But then, maybe, just maybe, Bill is with Thor right now. Mjolinir has been claimed after all and I find it hard to believe that Bill would not have sensed that.

Bill and Thor vs Sentry and Clor :) Problem is Oeming's the only guy at Marvel that seems to care a bit about BRB, pretty much the pmost powerful guy aside from Sentry on Earth right now (well..Eternals, but they're all whacky now, aren't they?) Of course only Spidey knows he's around (I think)

[Alphan76]

Thats a good point about Spidey. Shouldn't he have made a report to someone in the Avengers about Bill, especially since no one knows what happened with Thor.

Everyone keeps expecting Thor and Sentry to fight but Bendis gave some hints that Ares and Thor are going to rumble. I think it was in the last wizard, with the Mighty Avengers Preview.

[kcaroli]

After thinking about it again I tend to believe the events of ASM534 and FF538 took place after CW2 but prior to CW3/4.Not havin those issues at hand it's hard to prove but I think Sue is still there in FF538 and she left Reed with Johny almost imediately after the battle in CW3/4.Ben's decision to leave after FF538 evidently does not ivolve immediate departure since he's there in CW 3/4 and soon after when Sue and Johnny leave. Cap's condition in FF538/ASM 534 does not seem to reflect his severe beating in CW 3/4 either.The identity of the prisoners in FF338 is vague too,Whether Goliath was present in FF538 I' forget. But D.B. seems to have gotten the hammer before CW3/4 even if not by much. How long FF538 was prior to CW 3/4 I'm not sure. It doesn't seem very long.But the clone project must have been underway indefinitely longer.That leads me to wonder if in order to use Clor the Proregs had to speed up their trap for the antiregs before the real Thor returned. But if so it would seem exceptionally risky to have gone ahead with that plan when the proregs had plenty of strength present as it was withou using Clor. The antiregs still thought Thor was dead. No one gave the impression they were aware tat Mjolnir had been retreived including Tony and co. .Even after the battle they do not mention it as one would expect them to if they knew. Surely, they have methods of hearing about it very quickly. That leaves open the possibility that the bit about D.B. was later than the other evnts in FF538.
Since it's not clear that the real Thor will show up in CW one hopes it will be explained why not once his series starts.

[Thursaiz]

I still say that Odin himself has the hammer, and took it back to Asgard where Thor is recovering from the events of the last few Thor books. At least...that is what I would've done.

Another theory; what if Steve Rogers has the hammer? What if he saw this whole thing coming (like Iron Man) and went to grab it. I mean, he has done it before.

[Alphan76]

Odin died before the rest of the Asgardians died. :)
Thor is the only Asgardian left alive, somewhere.

If Cap had the hammer he never would have let Bill Foster be killed.

[Thursaiz]

Odin isn't dead. Just like the first two times he was supposed to have died, he will return.

Of course my theory about Cap is far-fetched, but Cap is smart enough to keep it as the last line of defence weapon...like to be used against Sentry.

[CyberCoyote]

Why can't we have Thor's son continue the legacy? I always liked Magni. Ah..won't ever happen.

And yeah, you'd think Pete would have given them a heads up, like, "You guys think this is a good Idea? I saw Beta Ray Bill a few weeks ago and he might take this the wrong way."

But then it wouldn't fit the story. I keep forgetting that :)

[Alphan76]

Odin isn't dead. Just like the first two times he was supposed to have died, he will return.

But, remember this time there was a broken and charred body.

[Jmacq1]

Why can't we have Thor's son continue the legacy? I always liked Magni. Ah..won't ever happen.

Yeah, I liked Magni, too. I think of Jurgens hadn't had to truncate his run to accomodate "Disassembled" we would've seen a lot more from him. And it did seem there was a tiny loophole left there for him to possibly return.

Though I don't know that a "Son of Thor" ongoing would have quite the same "zing" as bringing back the genuine article. ;)

[Gnarl]

Magni, Modi or Trudi would all be good.

Glad to see clor didn't wield the real Mjølner, that would just have been silly. I do wonder about how he controls lightening and storms, though.

I thought "Thunder God" was a title, like "Lord of the Marches" or something. Thors twin could just as well end up the lord of droughts, or snowstorms.

And what does Thors mother think of this cloning? Not an Æs, she is the goddess of life. Might she not be severely annoyed to have her genetic sequences exploited so?

[Lochdale]

Clor is disgraceful. It's derivative and indicative of just how lost Millar has become. A clone of Thor...good grief, wasn't it bad enough that Lucas destroye Star Wars?

Now as to the OP's original point. BRB would of course be concerned about Clor. He would isntantly fly to Clor and find out what is going wrong. Bill can be as vicious as Thor though and if he felt that the thing were evil or that it were controlled by IM then he would destroy it. Other than the Sentry, there isn't really a being on earth who can stop BRB. He's an utter beast andhe would profoundly change the course of CW.

Still, Clor needs to be destroyed as soon as possible.

[jefseg77]

Where was the part where it was a fake hammer? I totally missed that.

[SensorBoy]

Where was the part where it was a fake hammer? I totally missed that.


CW#4 the scene in Avengers Tower, post-fight, where reed is examining Clors head/brain. Second row, left panel. Upper right of the panel has an image of the fauxMjolnir with it's interior (electronics) exposed.