Speculation on Thor's hammer (Civil War #4 spoilers)

[Markavian]

We Know that it works in many ways like the real MCcoy.Shoots out lightning,Controls weather and returns to his hand after its thrown.There are at least two Mortal Metals that could make a reasonible facimile of mjolnir.Adamatium and Vibranium.If Reed,Tony and Hank combined their minds together I dont see why they couldnt even make the alloy that was used in Captain Americas Sheild.The Retuning to Clor effect is harder to define however.Magnetic reversal propulsion?Tony has had a lot of experience in that building his Repulser Rays in every Suit of Armor he ever made....The Weather Control would almost surely be based on Atmopheric Ionization.....Vibranium in the Hammer could absorb/store and direct Lightning bolts I think..What do all of you think?:)

[kalorama]

If the hammer was a fake and not the real enchanted artifact ... what was really the point of coming up with a Thor clone in the first place? Sure, he gives you great physical strength, but they already had that. The only logical reason for cloning Thor in the midst of all this would be the belief that a Thor clone could weild the real Mjolnir and give Stark's side an insurmountable advantage of force, which would allow them to decisively and quickly overwhelm Cap's forces. Creating an unstable clone to wield a techno hammer featuring weapons Stark could have just as easily incorporated into his armor makes little sense.

[Slade.]

If the hammer was a fake and not the real enchanted artifact ... what was really the point of coming up with a Thor clone in the first place? Sure, he gives you great physical strength, but they already had that. The only logical reason for cloning Thor in the midst of all this would be the belief that a Thor clone could weild the real Mjolnir and give Stark's side an insurmountable advantage of force, which would allow them to decisively and quickly overwhelm Cap's forces. Creating an unstable clone to wield a techno hammer featuring weapons Stark could have just as easily incorporated into his armor makes little sense.

Or the fact that them having Thor on their side is a huge psychological advantage too. And you make it sound as if Thor's physical strength is something to scoff at lol

[kalorama]

It's nothing to scoff at. But with She-Hulk, Doc Samson, Iron Man, et all, on their side, it was hardly a major necessity. Thor-clone didn't kill Goliath with his fists.

[Slade.]

It's nothing to scoff at. But with She-Hulk, Doc Samson, Iron Man, et all, on their side, it was hardly a major necessity. Thor-clone didn't kill Goliath with his fists.

Would you if you didn't have to? He just shot him once and boom pow it's over.

[Markavian]

The Only things Thors Real Hammer could do that we havent seen it do is Enable its weilder to fly and use it as a Sheild and teleport. It returneed to his hand and controled the weather as well as hurled huge lightning Bolts.It may not be the Equal of Thors Legendary Weapon but it wasnt a mere decoration either.He blasted Goliath like a man swating a fly.:cool:

[Thursaiz]

Well, we don't know for sure if it did any of those things. He raised it up and Hercules got hit with lightning, but that could have been linked to a SHIELD orbital weapon of some kind. All of the things can be explained with gadgets, so the hammer really doesn't do anything. No different than Iron Man's armour.

We also don't know if the clone even posesses super strength.

[Will.S]

If the hammer was a fake and not the real enchanted artifact ... what was really the point of coming up with a Thor clone in the first place? Sure, he gives you great physical strength, but they already had that. The only logical reason for cloning Thor in the midst of all this would be the belief that a Thor clone could weild the real Mjolnir and give Stark's side an insurmountable advantage of force, which would allow them to decisively and quickly overwhelm Cap's forces. Creating an unstable clone to wield a techno hammer featuring weapons Stark could have just as easily incorporated into his armor makes little sense. I think Stark is still going to need Thor given both the side switching and the numbers Cap picked up. The psychological advantage is still in full effect too, even though Cap knows it's not the real Thor he was still one of his most loyal friends in combat and the clone sort of twists/perverts what they had.

I thought it also made for a great fake-out alongside giving us some Thor action even if it's not the one we know and love. As for the hammer itself, it's definitely built for what it's set out to do but it's still a fake version of the real deal so it's going to have weaknesses to it.

[Markavian]

Well, we don't know for sure if it did any of those things. He raised it up and Hercules got hit with lightning, but that could have been linked to a SHIELD orbital weapon of some kind. All of the things can be explained with gadgets, so the hammer really doesn't do anything. No different than Iron Man's armour.

We also don't know if the clone even posesses super strength.We Saw it hurl lightning..Bill Foster was killed by it..And it returned to his hand in CW 4.

[ReigningBlood]

Then who took Thor's real hammer out of the ground?

[Markavian]

Then who took Thor's real hammer out of the ground?
Or Donald Blake...its unsure where he is at present.

[Argonaut]

Then who took Thor's real hammer out of the ground?

Another Donald Blake.

[kalorama]

I think Stark is still going to need Thor given both the side switching and the numbers Cap picked up. The psychological advantage is still in full effect too, even though Cap knows it's not the real Thor he was still one of his most loyal friends in combat and the clone sort of twists/perverts what they had.

I agree about Thor being an asset ... if it was the real Thor. A fake Thor and a (presumably) fake Mjolnir, not so much.

I doubt Clone-Thor has any psychological effect on Cap other than to make him despise Stark and Pym even more than he already must.

[Will.S]

I agree about Thor being an asset ... if it was the real Thor. A fake Thor and a (presumably) fake Mjolnir, not so much.Still, I think it would be fair to say that the clone Thor had a good showing here and is powerful enough to at least bolster their already powerful members. What's odd is that there's still no Sentry to be seen so we still don't know if he'll be a factor throughout the mini even though he and CLOC serve registration functions in both Front Line and the MA preview.

I doubt Clone-Thor has any psychological effect on Cap other than to make him despise Stark and Pym even more than he already must. So it would already be doing it's job quite nicely

;)

[kalorama]

Still, I think it would be fair to say that the clone Thor had a good showing here and is powerful enough to at least bolster their already powerful members.

He also went crazy and murdered someone. Big ups all around, I guess. Point is, the physical strength the Thor clone brought to the table was, at best, a nice garnish (given the already overwhelming power on Stark's side and his access to even more recruits in the wings), but it provided no desperately needed nutrients. And the weapon he used to murder Bill Foster (if it was, in fact, a fabrication by Stark) could just as easily have been wielded by someone else. They didn't need Thor to do it.

So it would already be doing it's job quite nicely

Not unless Stark and Pym went out of their way to come up with a way to make Cap think they're immoral, conscienceless monsters. I'm not sure why they'd want that. Beyond that, it's very unlikely that seeing Thor, the real or fake one, on Tony's side would throw Cap off his game or undermine his resolve. He's gone up against overwhelming odds before (including facing off against Thor on occasion) and not flinched.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

We know its fake. When they're drilling into Clone Thor's head in CW #4 they have scientists looking at the fake hammer with wires coming out if one side, whos face had been removed. Its tech, its fake.

[Will.S]

Point is, the physical strength the Thor clone brought to the table was, at best, a nice garnish (given the already overwhelming power on Stark's side and his access to even more recruits in the wings), but it provided no desperately needed nutrients. And the weapon he used to murder Bill Foster (if it was, in fact, a fabrication by Stark) could just as easily have been wielded by someone else. They didn't need Thor to do it.
Had the pro-registration side been as powerful as you say, the fight would have ended much quicker but Hercules was still able to throw a wrench in their plans. If Thor hadn't intervened I honestly think the fight would have gone the other way since the anti-side put a good showing once Iron Man's sonics were taken out temporarily by Hercules.

So I do think that they needed the extra help as their ace in the hole.

Not unless Stark and Pym went out of their way to come up with a way to make Cap think they're immoral, conscienceless monsters. I'm not sure why they'd want that. Beyond that, it's very unlikely that seeing Thor, the real or fake one, on Tony's side would throw Cap off his game or undermine his resolve. He's gone up against overwhelming odds before (including facing off against Thor on occasion) and not flinched.
Admittedly, we haven't seen a whole lot more about Cap and how he will function from now onwards but while Cap doesn't believe it's really him, his forces still have that doubt. Cable and the others have expressed that already after the big battle.

[kalorama]

Had the pro-registration side been as powerful as you say, the fight would have ended much quicker but Hercules was still able to throw a wrench in their plans. If Thor hadn't intervened I honestly think the fight would have gone the other way since the anti-side put a good showing once Iron Man's sonics were taken out temporarily by Hercules.

So I do think that they needed the extra help as their ace in the hole.

I don't.

They may have lost that one particular battle without Thor, but given that Stark has the option of calling in SHIELD, the U.S. Military, and drafting every registered cape into service, he quite clearly has more immediate access to a much larger cache of power than Cap. Even without Thor, he has a clear advantage, should he choose to go all out.

Admittedly, we haven't seen a whole lot more about Cap and how he will function from now onwards but while Cap doesn't believe it's really him, his forces still have that doubt. Cable and the others have expressed that already after the big battle.

True. But that's Cable and others. I'm talking specifically about Cap. Even if he thought it was the real Thor, I doubt it would deter him. Since he doesn't, it's even less of an issue.

[Will.S]

I don't.

They may have lost that one particular battle without Thor, but given that Stark has the option of calling in SHIELD, the U.S. Military, and drafting every registered cape into service, he quite clearly has more immediate access to a much larger cache of power than Cap. Even without Thor, he has a clear advantage, should he choose to go all out.
That depends on how much power Iron Man can delegate.

The President can call upon U.S. Military but Stark probably doesn't have presidential level clearance. So far we've only seen him have the full support of S.H.I.E.L.D but the indications at the end of this issue have Iron Man and Reed admitting that that Cap has gotten the advantage in both numbers and power. They also can't use the 50 state initiative since it isn't perfected yet so they induct the villains we see at the end alongside Thor.

[CyberCoyote]

But how does Cap have the power advantage? Hercules and Sue..those are the two powerhouses I saw (well..the Skrull-Marvell kid from YA, think he's pretty tough)

I know I'm late on this, too, but Goliath isn't (wasn't) even really bulletproof was he? Strong in giant form and tough, but even in his showing in Thing #1 he burned his hands on Cauldron. Sad to say but I don't think it took THAT much power to kill him :(

[kalorama]

That depends on how much power Iron Man can delegate.

The President can call upon U.S. Military but Stark probably doesn't have presidential level clearance. So far we've only seen him have the full support of S.H.I.E.L.D but the indications at the end of this issue have Iron Man and Reed admitting that that Cap has gotten the advantage in both numbers and power. They also can't use the 50 state initiative since it isn't perfected yet so they induct the villains we see at the end alongside Thor.


Stark can't call on extra forces unilaterally, but he can certainly request them. And there's little reason to think such a request would be denied by the powers-that-be if he makes a significant enough case for them. At the very least, he already has the forces and advanced weaponry of SHIELD on his side, which gives him a pretty clear tactical advantage over Cap's side.

[Will.S]

But how does Cap have the power advantage? Hercules and Sue..those are the two powerhouses I saw (well..the Skrull-Marvell kid from YA, think he's pretty tough)
They haven't shown exactly WHY Cap has the power advantage yet but just looking at the people on his side so far:

Hercules
Vision
Cable
Debrii
Daredevil (Iron Fist)
Kate Bishop
Patriot
Cloak & Dagger
Hulking
Justice
Living Lightning
Tri-Athlon
Firebird
Pulsar
Machine Man
Sue Storm

I'm unable to identify the female character to the left of Living Lightning (at the center in the backround) but Spider-Man is looking to be the eventual defector.

I know I'm late on this, too, but Goliath isn't (wasn't) even really bulletproof was he? Strong in giant form and tough, but even in his showing in Thing #1 he burned his hands on Cauldron. Sad to say but I don't think it took THAT much power to kill him :(
Yeah he seemed to retain certain vulnerabilities although I think Stature or Yellowjacket could have gone out the same way. If it were say Atlas though, he would be able to take the full brunt of it.

[kalorama]

They haven't shown exactly WHY Cap has the power advantage yet but just looking at the people on his side so far:

Hercules
Vision
Cable
Hulking
Justice
Living Lightning
Tri-Athlon
Firebird
Pulsar
Machine Man
Sue Storm


From a raw power standpoint, that's not really a powerhouse lineup next to what Stark has at his disposal, esp. when you factor in that Cap can't acquire new recruits as easily as Iron Man.

[CyberCoyote]

I'm unable to identify the female character to the left of Living Lightning (at the center in the backround) but Spider-Man is looking to be the eventual defector.


Honestly it looks like Jolt from the T-Bolts V1 but it can't be. Can it?


Yeah he seemed to retain certain vulnerabilities although I think Stature or Yellowjacket could have gone out the same way. If it were say Atlas though, he would be able to take the full brunt of it.

Too bad Atlas wasn't there on Cap's side. He would have creamed the Clone. Then again, he might have lost it and killed someone himself :(

[Will.S]

From a raw power standpoint, that's not really a powerhouse lineup next to what Stark has at his disposal, esp. when you factor in that Cap can't acquire new recruits as easily as Iron Man.
Depends on what Iron Man's lineup will look like come next issue but I think you're underestimating here a bit.

For instance, Living lightning could short out Thor's hammer. Vision can do lots of diverse stuff (he took out Super Skrull recently in YA), Pulsar can play around with the entire energy spectrum, Sue Storm's force fields and Johnny Storm's Nova Flame....there's abundant power there but they're not all neccessarily class 100 hitters. There's also Namor who could be a factor in the future and I don't see him siding with the pro-registration people.

Iron Man has some really great power hitters as well with Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Mr. Fantastic, Yellowjacket, the T-Bolts and maybe the Sentry. We'll have to wait and see the extent of their forces next issue though.

[Will.S]

Honestly it looks like Jolt from the T-Bolts V1 but it can't be. Can it?
Hmm, not too sure.

Perhaps it's Quake from Secret War/New Avengers?

[Rich L]

Hmm, not too sure.

Perhaps it's Quake from Secret War/New Avengers?

Looks like the New Warriors' Silhouette - and I think that's Debrii near her too.

[CyberCoyote]

Looks like the New Warriors' Silhouette - and I think that's Debrii near her too.

Ahh..that's it! I thought she was dark for Jolt (and no visible walking canes)

[Will.S]

Looks like the New Warriors' Silhouette - and I think that's Debrii near her too.
Yep, you got it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silhouette_%28comics%29

Thanks man, your NW knowledge has been put to good use ;)

[bloodyarts]

On the issue of Clor strength, the hurling of the hammer,which scattered the anti-reggers to the winds, and the groundstrike he did, upheaving the landscape his opponents were standing on, is pretty indicative of massive strength.

But, I'm of a mind those feats were also faked by the hammer. Because aside from physical appearance ONLY, I refuse to believe they cloned a god, and the only downside was a little mental instability. Not to bring up this argument again, but Thor's as much a magical being as biological (maybe moreso), and genius or not, Reed, Tony and Pym just could not have duplicated that.

Also, I do believe Thor was created/used primarily for shock value. The powers he brought to the table were also doubtless useful, but honestly, Tony himself could've done most of the things Clor did.

[kalorama]

For instance, Living lightning could short out Thor's hammer. Vision can do lots of diverse stuff (he took out Super Skrull recently in YA), Pulsar can play around with the entire energy spectrum, Sue Storm's force fields and Johnny Storm's Nova Flame....there's abundant power there but they're not all neccessarily class 100 hitters. There's also Namor who could be a factor in the future and I don't see him siding with the pro-registration people.


It's almost a given that Stark, Pym, and Reed considered the forces at Cap's disposal when designing Thor's hammer and built in safeguards to protect it from them. And it's quite premature to count Namor as part of Cap's forces, since he has not made his presence felt. What he may or may not do is speculattion at this point.

Iron Man has some really great power hitters as well with Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Mr. Fantastic, Yellowjacket, the T-Bolts and maybe the Sentry.

He also has thousands of SHIELD agents and tons of their advanced military weaponary at his disposal, to say nothing of the high-tech weapon-making capacity of his own multi-national hi-tech conglomerate, as well as as the services of the world's most brilliant inventor to help him develop new weaponry. And unlike Cap, who is forced to operate from hiding with no offical backing, Stark has the option of requisitioning new recruits fairly easily (as seen at the end of issue 4). You can't measure the force just on a mano-a-mano scale. It's a war, not a team sport. Stark isn't limited to fielding the same size team as Cap.

[kalorama]

On the issue of Clor strength, the hurling of the hammer,which scattered the anti-reggers to the winds, and the groundstrike he did, upheaving the landscape his opponents were standing on, is pretty indicative of massive strength.

But, I'm of a mind those feats were also faked by the hammer. Because aside from physical appearance ONLY, I refuse to believe they cloned a god, and the only downside was a little mental instability. Not to bring up this argument again, but Thor's as much a magical being as biological (maybe moreso), and genius or not, Reed, Tony and Pym just could not have duplicated that.

That's a good point. It's been pretty clearly stated in the past that while Thor's natural strength is considerable, his possession of the hammer adds to his physical power as well as giving him control over the elements.

[Rich L]

Yep, you got it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silhouette_%28comics%29

Thanks man, your NW knowledge has been put to good use ;)

Hey, all those wasted years as a NW booster counted for something - yay! :D

[Cosmic Book Fan]

I'm unable to identify the female character to the left of Living Lightning (at the center in the backround) but Spider-Man is looking to be the eventual defector.



I'm thinking it's Silhouette from the New Warriors.
BAH- TOO LATE

[Cosmic Book Fan]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little premature to be saying that the hammer is definately fake?
I agree that there's a strong case for it, but a single shot in one panel of a book isn't absolute proof.
What if 'Clor' was able to wield the real hammer, don't you think they'd try to study it while he was out of commision?
I agree that it does look like wires are going into the hammer, but what if they are going to some analytical device that's just sitting on the surface?

BTW I think that the 'fake-hammer-hypothesis' will be proven, I just think it's a little premature to take it as fact.

[bloodyarts]

I think that was proof enough, but you're right. We don't know until we've been told.

Remember, the hammer was neatly peeled away to reveal circuitry within. I don't think the tech guys have a laser or other cutting utensil powerful enough to cut into the real Mjolnir.

Still, do you really think an imitation of Thor would be found worthy to wield the weapon? Now that Clor's outta commission, how are the tech guys going to move the hammer around for further study? Can't risk activating Clor again, just for the purpose of holding the hammer while they examine it...

"Okay, Thor, hold it in that position while we attach these electro-prods..., oops! Sorry, didn't mean to prick you. I'll just put these away until later"

"I'm putting you away... PERMANENTLY." (activates hammer's electrical discharge weapon).

Then again, after Ragnarok, the enchantment may be null. After all, Mjolnir landed in Oklahoma, not to Thor's waiting hand...

[kalorama]

Then again, after Ragnarok, the enchantment may be null. After all, Mjolnir landed in Oklahoma, not to Thor's waiting hand...

Well, the implication there is that, being dead/dormant/whatever Thor's hand wasn't exactly waiting. And the enchantment was still intact in Oklahoma, as shown by Ben Grimm's inability to lift the hammer.

[bloodyarts]

Well, the implication there is that, being dead/dormant/whatever Thor's hand wasn't exactly waiting. And the enchantment was still intact in Oklahoma, as shown by Ben Grimm's inability to lift the hammer.

True. Plus, the hammer pierced Hell to get there.

[ivesaidway2much]

Am I the only one that thinks it's stupid to give Clor the Hammer? The real advantage of using Mjolnir is that almost noone else but Thor could lift it. With a fake hammer that advantage is gone. Once Clor starts throwing his hammer around again, how easy is it going to be for someone else to simply catch it and proceed to bash his face in? Without his hammer Thor is just another really strong guy, but at least he had centuries of fighting experience. Clor was literally born yesterday. What's the point of having him when anyone that ever met the real Thor could probably tell within 60 seconds that he is a fake?

[Will.S]

It's almost a given that Stark, Pym, and Reed considered the forces at Cap's disposal when designing Thor's hammer and built in safeguards to protect it from them. So if Thor does have all the right benefits, you can see why Iron Man and company would need someone like him right?

He also has thousands of SHIELD agents and tons of their advanced military weaponary at his disposal, to say nothing of the high-tech weapon-making capacity of his own multi-national hi-tech conglomerate, as well as as the services of the world's most brilliant inventor to help him develop new weaponry. And unlike Cap, who is forced to operate from hiding with no offical backing, Stark has the option of requisitioning new recruits fairly easily (as seen at the end of issue 4). You can't measure the force just on a mano-a-mano scale. It's a war, not a team sport. Stark isn't limited to fielding the same size team as Cap. S.H.I.E.L.D. had advanced weaponry and numbers in their favor in New Avengers #22 but Cage, Cap, Iron Fist and Falcon were still able to defeat them and take possession of their tank so that's not always going to be the biggest factor to this war.

Iron Man seems pretty limited in that he's forced to temporarily take in that villain squad at the end so that seems to to be a desperate measure in itself showing that even though he can get more registered people, it's no guarantee wether they'll follow him at this point.

[Slade.]

Am I the only one that thinks it's stupid to give Clor the Hammer? The real advantage of using Mjolnir is that almost noone else but Thor could lift it. With a fake hammer that advantage is gone. Once Clor starts throwing his hammer around again, how easy is it going to be for someone else to simply catch it and proceed to bash his face in? Without his hammer Thor is just another really strong guy, but at least he had centuries of fighting experience. Clor was literally born yesterday. What's the point of having him when anyone that ever met the real Thor could probably tell within 60 seconds that he is a fake?

Blasphemy!!! Thor will never be just another strong guy! Bite your tongue!!

[Thursaiz]

As a longtime Thor fan, and follower of Norse mythology, I don't think that what happened was Ragnarock. Thor leading Asgard, and Odin dying doesn't follow the mythos. I think that Thor is still here, and possibly somewhere 'beneath' where Mjollnir landed. Maybe in the Norse Hel? That might explain the hammer cutting through the 'Hell' where Doom was?

If I am correct, then the enchantment is still there. Also, the whole thing that happened in Asgard might have been a test brought on by Odin to see if Thor could succeed.

[CyberCoyote]

Am I the only one that thinks it's stupid to give Clor the Hammer? The real advantage of using Mjolnir is that almost noone else but Thor could lift it. With a fake hammer that advantage is gone. Once Clor starts throwing his hammer around again, how easy is it going to be for someone else to simply catch it and proceed to bash his face in? Without his hammer Thor is just another really strong guy, but at least he had centuries of fighting experience. Clor was literally born yesterday. What's the point of having him when anyone that ever met the real Thor could probably tell within 60 seconds that he is a fake?

WHY did they do it? It's morally reprehensible, something reserved for super villains who're supposed to be the amoral ones, and he's..well..what is he? ANYONE could have used the hammer they built, maybe some one who..oh..I dunno..wasn't an untested clone with no real mind of his own?

Reed and Tony could have devised a myriad of non-lethal weapons to contain the resistance in the time it must have taken to put Clor and his hammer together. Iron Man had his little sound doohicky, why not a bunch of them to incapacitate the others? Instead you make an abomination of a former friend? Reed can build robots up the whazoo and Tony can design their weapons systems. Heck, Reed was whining about the number of Super Humans he feared would be in the world according to his calculations so his solution is to Clone EVEN MORE SUPERHUMANS! Wha?????

Naturally when it falls through they decide nanotech monitored mass murderers are a better option :)

[Slade.]

As a longtime Thor fan, and follower of Norse mythology, I don't think that what happened was Ragnarock. Thor leading Asgard, and Odin dying doesn't follow the mythos. I think that Thor is still here, and possibly somewhere 'beneath' where Mjollnir landed. Maybe in the Norse Hel? That might explain the hammer cutting through the 'Hell' where Doom was?

If I am correct, then the enchantment is still there. Also, the whole thing that happened in Asgard might have been a test brought on by Odin to see if Thor could succeed.


You're right it wasn't Ragnarok, Thor STOPPED Ragnarok. That was the whole point. "breaking the cycle".

[Slade.]

WHY did they do it? It's morally reprehensible, something reserved for super villains who're supposed to be the amoral ones, and he's..well..what is he? ANYONE could have used the hammer they built, maybe some one who..oh..I dunno..wasn't an untested clone with no real mind of his own?

Reed and Tony could have devised a myriad of non-lethal weapons to contain the resistance in the time it must have taken to put Clor and his hammer together. Iron Man had his little sound doohicky, why not a bunch of them to incapacitate the others? Instead you make an abomination of a former friend? Reed can build robots up the whazoo and Tony can design their weapons systems. Heck, Reed was whining about the number of Super Humans he feared would be in the world according to his calculations so his solution is to Clone EVEN MORE SUPERHUMANS! Wha?????

Naturally when it falls through they decide nanotech monitored mass murderers are a better option :)

Yea but if they did that you'd be saying "Ohh borrrrinnnggg we've seen that before".

I mean when were robots and that stuff anything but the USUAL for comics? That stuff wouldn't be exciting anymore just typical. This is at least something stranger and more wow. Like it or hate it, it is wow.

[Thursaiz]

You're right it wasn't Ragnarok, Thor STOPPED Ragnarok. That was the whole point. "breaking the cycle".

Exactly my point. I only mention it because people keep referencing Ragnarock happening, and enchantments being broken and so forth.

[loobzer]

I think that was proof enough, but you're right. We don't know until we've been told.

Remember, the hammer was neatly peeled away to reveal circuitry within. I don't think the tech guys have a laser or other cutting utensil powerful enough to cut into the real Mjolnir.

Then again, after Ragnarok, the enchantment may be null. After all, Mjolnir landed in Oklahoma, not to Thor's waiting hand...

The hammer we saw in CW4 is not the real Mjolnir. The real one was picked up by Donald Blake at the end of FF538. What's most interesting is if you re-read FF538-539, you'll see that those two issues both occur AFTER the events in CW4 (Cap's captured team members were freed and Ben Grimm decides to leave the country which he hasn't yet done in CW4).

This all means that the real Thor has come back, and did so AFTER the events of CW4 and the Clor/Goliath incident.

Also, have you seen the solicited cover for Ms Marvel #8? Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks a lot like Carol Danvers may get a pummelling, courtesy of Thor. Lightning all over the background, and what I think is a red cape blowing at the top of the cover as she's falling from the sky.

I believe there's a reckoning coming from the real Thor.

[Slumber Hulk]

I think we are working towards a rogue clone Thor vs. real Thor in the near future. But the psychological effects of Thor are obvious, it really deporalized Cap's side. Also this clone's physical strength and hammer's power have been proven by those 40 burial plots they chucked Bill in wrapped in a tarp.

[Xanrn]

Yeah it does seem FF538 is post Civil War 4.

Although it doesn't fit very well.

Because Jonny is still out of it at the start.

Also whats the big battle Thing sees when he walks out of Jonny's room? It can't be the Civil 3/4 big battle because he was there from the start.

Think we need to ask someone in the know.

[bloodyarts]

Exactly my point. I only mention it because people keep referencing Ragnarock happening, and enchantments being broken and so forth.

Don't know if any of this is directed at me, but to reference Ragnarok is not exactly wrong, as it WAS taking place before Thor confronted the Ones Above In Shadow (or something).

Also, I didn't believe for a second that the hammer's enchantment had been broken, evidenced by it piercing Hell, and as kalorama noted, noone except "DB" (has this been confirmed to be Donald Blake?) was able to lift it, not even Aunt Petunia's favorite nephew-by-marriage.

Still, in trying to keep an open mind to people's theories, I had to consider the possibility and ramifications of Mjolnir becoming "impotent".