Can a woman wield Mjolnir?

[Uncensored]

I just began wondering after being reminded of the inscription on the side of Mjolnir (Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of... Thor), whether or not a woman could wield That Which Smashes, and thus become Thor.

This also raises another question; if a woman was able to become Thor, would she become a female version (Thora...?), or simply be the recipient of an instant sex change?

[Haunt]

Ron Burgundy told me that there are two important rules about women; 1) they can't be anchormen and 2) they can't lift Thor's hammer.

[Sam T.]

In a What If? Rogue lifted Mjolnir...

[Haunt]

In a What If? Rogue lifted Mjolnir...


Rogue's a MAN?!! :eek: does Gambit know?

[Edward J Cunningham]

In some Marvel/DC crossover a million years ago, Wonder Woman picked up Mjolnir.

Eddie Cunningham

[G. Boney]

Didn't Storm pick it up? I know there was an "X-men in Asgard" graphic novel back in the day...

[Nightcrawler]

I don't think the question is can they pick it up, but can they be transformed into Thor?

[Matt K]

Thor was also turned into a women in Earth-X

[StoneGold]

Right, like a woman knows how to use a hammer.

[captain_unimpressive]

So what I gather from this is that a good chunk of the major female Marvel characters (and at least one DC) has taken up Thor's weapon at least once, but never actually turning into the hero.
That would make an odd scene, though.

Wonder Woman: No one can destroy the mighty Mjolnir-- (notices mirror) Wait, since when am I a blonde?

[Joe Acro]

I don't think the question is can they pick it up, but can they be transformed into Thor?
Beings aren't necessarily turned into Thor when they grab the hammer. In Wonder Woman's case, her costume was morphed, and that was about it. So far, no, no women have turned into Thor by grabbing the hammer. Although, I bet blonde-haired characters like Invisible Woman and Valkyrie (assuming they can lift it) wouldn't look too much different.

[ednemo]

In the What If, Rogue turned into a female Thor. She had the Norse accent, her hair changed and she had a Female Thor outfit. Then she threw the Blob out of a Helicopter.

[Joe Acro]

I suppose, theoretically, the reason that Wonder Woman didn't change is due to her picking it up on the DC Earth.

[blackphoenix]

In the What If, Rogue turned into a female Thor. She had the Norse accent, her hair changed and she had a Female Thor outfit. Then she threw the Blob out of a Helicopter.

Actually, Rogue still had her regular look and made her costume thor-like: she had a real Thoe suit by the end of the book.

[DDM]

In a What If? Rogue lifted Mjolnir...

Rogue absorbed Thor permanently in that what If instead of Ms. Marvel. Therefore, she was able to lift Thor's Uru hammer & essentially be Thor.

[Loki]

So what I gather from this is that a good chunk of the major female Marvel characters (and at least one DC) has taken up Thor's weapon at least once, but never actually turning into the hero.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/thordis.htm

Worked for at least one woman in one alternate reality, so no reason why it couldn't work in 616.

[captain_unimpressive]

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/thordis.htm

Worked for at least one woman in one alternate reality, so no reason why it couldn't work in 616.

I stand corrected.
By the way, you know who'd look great in a Thor costume... Shadowcat. :)

[Genis101]

I just began wondering after being reminded of the inscription on the side of Mjolnir (Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of... Thor), whether or not a woman could wield That Which Smashes, and thus become Thor.

This also raises another question; if a woman was able to become Thor, would she become a female version (Thora...?), or simply be the recipient of an instant sex change?

There was a Thor Girl. She had a whole new Uru Hammer and all the powers of Thor and everything. She was basically Thor in a female body.

[Michael P]

Right, like a woman knows how to use a hammer.
Seriously. Next thing you know, they'll be asking "Can a woman vote?" or "Can a woman drive a car?"

[Joe Rice]

Seriously. Next thing you know, they'll be asking "Can a woman vote?" or "Can a woman drive a car?"

"Can a woman not ruin your life?"

[Davidai]

"Can a woman not ruin your life?"

LOL. Answer is yes...now if our girlfriends saw how we put down the female races in this thread then we are all doomed.

[kalorama]

Beings aren't necessarily turned into Thor when they grab the hammer.

When Captain America lifted it, he wasn't changed at all.

[Laminator_X]

I would consider the "he" to be the old-fashionned "generic masculine" use of the term. Inclusive language hadn't really come of age yet on Earth in the early 60's, to say nothing of in Asgaurd. Furthurmore, the inscription is actually in runes anyway. The magic lets the reader see it in his (or her ;) ) native language.

The transformation thing is inconsistant, but it's magic so I don't mind. Some people have physically become Thor embodied (Masterson), some people just get a costume touch-up (Wonder-Woman, Rogue), some just feel the rush (Magni, Superman, Cap), and sometimes there's a totally unexpected transformation (Dorgo, Beta-Ray).

I would guess that there're a few ladies around who'd make the cut. I'd put money on Sue Richards.

[InigoMontoya]

I'm going to regret asking this but...What is the nature of Thor?

Is he a person, a power, or somethign completly different. When DB turned into Thor was DB just being posessed.

Edit: the idea of a female thor is really hot :)

[davros42]

I suppose, theoretically, the reason that Wonder Woman didn't change is due to her picking it up on the DC Earth.


More likely the fact that she is already a demi-god/mythological being in her own right.

[Doom Hammer]

I can just see one of the more militant super-heroines using a sharpie to add "or she" on the side of Mjolnir. :D

[sherlockbones]

no they can´t!

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3526/futramaaw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Fnog: Excellent. Bill, Keith, you will go to Junior Championships. Bill, congratulate Keith when he regains consciousness.

Leela: But, Master Fnog, I can beat these dorks with one eye closed.

Fnog: Perhaps. But there is more to winning than beating your opponent. You lack the will of the warrior.

Leela: What do you mean? Watch this!

[She kicks Bill in the stomach.]

Bill: (crying) Ow!

Fnog: No girl has the will of a warrior. You have the will of a housewife or, at best, the schoolmarm.

Leela: That's it. I'll take you on right now.

Fnog: Very well. But, you see, I have the will of the warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over. The winner? Me! [He laughs.] Rematch? You lose again! Had enough? I thought so!

[Lorendiac]

I would consider the "he" to be the old-fashionned "generic masculine" use of the term. Inclusive language hadn't really come of age yet on Earth in the early 60's, to say nothing of in Asgaurd. Furthurmore, the inscription is actually in runes anyway. The magic lets the reader see it in his (or her ;) ) native language.

I was thinking about that as well. Even today, as I understand it, according to textbooks and such, it is grammatically correct in the English language to say "he" when you mean "any hypothetical person, male or female!"

For instance: I don't know who will be elected President of the United States in 2008. I can properly say: "No matter who wins the 2008 election, I will send a letter to him at the White House urging him to support such-and-such. Of course, he may never see it."

If I say that, I am not committing myself to a claim that it will definitely be a man who wins. Suppose for the sake of argument that Hillary Clinton actually wins the 2008 election. If I wait for her inauguration and then send such a letter to the White House, addressed to her, then I have scrupulously kept my promise from 2006 to send "him" (meaning "the hypothetical winner, male or female") that letter! :)

Now, I could have said I would send "him or her" that letter, and that "he or she" might not even see it personally. But the rules of grammar did not require me to do it that way. In such a hypothetical context, just saying "he" implicitly includes the possibility that the person in question might be from the female half of the human race!

And some people would have said "I will send them that letter, even though they might not ever personally see it." Using the plural pronouns "they" and "them" to refer to a hypothetical individual without committing themselves to any mention of what gender that person may turn out to have, if and when certain circumstances arise! ("Singular, plural, what's the difference?" I believe some diehard grammarians still tear out their hair when they see or hear others taking that particular approach to the problem.)

Of course, now we get into the knotty question of whether or not the inscription in the original Old Norse (or whatever language it's in?) is powered by a magic spell that actually understands these subtle distinctions. When that hammer automatically translates its own inscription into Modern English for the benefit of an American observer, does it realize that by saying "he" in such vague, general terms, it is implicitly committing itself to letting a worthy female have an Equal Opportunity to wield its power?

For all we know, the first time a worthy female hero hefted that hammer and thereby accessed Thor-level power, the hammer may have been silently screaming to itself, with its presumably Very Macho Old Norse personality: "No, no, no! Anything but that! Don't let a woman use my power! I never bargained for this! I thought the phrasing of my inscription specifically prohibited anything so shameful from happening!"

To which Odin (if he was the one who enchanted that hammer in the first place, and I think he was) may have replied, on a supernatural/psychic plane that the readers at the time couldn't spy on: "Quiet! When you translate your own rule into Modern English, you create new loopholes! This is the Twentieth Century, Mjolnir! You've got to keep up with the times!" :)

[Joe Acro]

I was thinking about that as well. Even today, as I understand it, according to textbooks and such, it is grammatically correct in the English language to say "he" when you mean "any hypothetical person, male or female!"

I prefer to use the almost as common "they" in these occasions. Though, that trend came after the creation of the inscription.

[CyberCoyote]

I'm sure there's many a Marvel Universe woman who's wielded Thors..uh..weapon. He's been around a long time :)

'Whom so ever" is how it's written (in ENGLISH mind you) on the hammer, so I'm guessing anyone that can speak English qualifies :)

[fonze81]

LOL. Answer is yes...now if our girlfriends saw how we put down the female races in this thread then we are all doomed.

We have girlfriends?

[fonze81]

I was thinking about that as well. Even today, as I understand it, according to textbooks and such, it is grammatically correct in the English language to say "he" when you mean "any hypothetical person, male or female!"

For instance: I don't know who will be elected President of the United States in 2008. I can properly say: "No matter who wins the 2008 election, I will send a letter to him at the White House urging him to support such-and-such. Of course, he may never see it."

If I say that, I am not committing myself to a claim that it will definitely be a man who wins. Suppose for the sake of argument that Hillary Clinton actually wins the 2008 election. If I wait for her inauguration and then send such a letter to the White House, addressed to her, then I have scrupulously kept my promise from 2006 to send "him" (meaning "the hypothetical winner, male or female") that letter! :)

Now, I could have said I would send "him or her" that letter, and that "he or she" might not even see it personally. But the rules of grammar did not require me to do it that way. In such a hypothetical context, just saying "he" implicitly includes the possibility that the person in question might be from the female half of the human race!

And some people would have said "I will send them that letter, even though they might not ever personally see it." Using the plural pronouns "they" and "them" to refer to a hypothetical individual without committing themselves to any mention of what gender that person may turn out to have, if and when certain circumstances arise! ("Singular, plural, what's the difference?" I believe some diehard grammarians still tear out their hair when they see or hear others taking that particular approach to the problem.)

Of course, now we get into the knotty question of whether or not the inscription in the original Old Norse (or whatever language it's in?) is powered by a magic spell that actually understands these subtle distinctions. When that hammer automatically translates its own inscription into Modern English for the benefit of an American observer, does it realize that by saying "he" in such vague, general terms, it is implicitly committing itself to letting a worthy female have an Equal Opportunity to wield its power?

For all we know, the first time a worthy female hero hefted that hammer and thereby accessed Thor-level power, the hammer may have been silently screaming to itself, with its presumably Very Macho Old Norse personality: "No, no, no! Anything but that! Don't let a woman use my power! I never bargained for this! I thought the phrasing of my inscription specifically prohibited anything so shameful from happening!"

To which Odin (if he was the one who enchanted that hammer in the first place, and I think he was) may have replied, on a supernatural/psychic plane that the readers at the time couldn't spy on: "Quiet! When you translate your own rule into Modern English, you create new loopholes! This is the Twentieth Century, Mjolnir! You've got to keep up with the times!" :)

wow I dont know whats worse that you had the time to think this all through and write about it .. Or I had the time to read it all and comprehend it .. lol

[alextron]

I just began wondering after being reminded of the inscription on the side of Mjolnir (Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of... Thor), whether or not a woman could wield That Which Smashes, and thus become Thor.

This also raises another question; if a woman was able to become Thor, would she become a female version (Thora...?), or simply be the recipient of an instant sex change?


Woman can't carry the Hammer because their weak and too emotional. :eek:

[Doom Hammer]

Woman can't carry the Hammer because their weak and too emotional. :eek:

Well everyone else was clever and beat around the bush in a joking manner, but I guess there's something to be said for taking the crude, direct approach.

Something, indeed.

[Alphan76]

Right, like a woman knows how to use a hammer.

Sweet. :D

Why wouldn't a woman be able to wield Mjolnir? It grants the lifter Thor's power not his sex. Although, if it did...:eek:

[Rorschach4100]

Right, like a woman knows how to use a hammer.

Easily the best post in this entire thread.

[Uncensored]

To which Odin (if he was the one who enchanted that hammer in the first place, and I think he was)

Actually, the hammer was crafted by two dwarven brothers named Brokk and Eitri.

[Arilou]

Rogue could lift it couldn't he? At least in that What-If.

And I believe Storm could lift an exact copy.

[PretenderNX01]

If girls are allowed on the X-Men, I don't see why one couldn't posses the power of Thor.

What I'd really like to know is why an ancient asgardian weapon is incribed in english. :p

[Joe Acro]

Actually, the hammer was crafted by two dwarven brothers named Brokk and Eitri.
It may have been crafted by dwarves, but Lorendiac was right when he said the hammer was originally enchanted by Odin.


What I'd really like to know is why an ancient asgardian weapon is incribed in english.
I think it's a magical inscription that appears in the first language of the person viewing it. Although, trying to explain that when comics have been translated into other comics and the hammer not having been translated with them (I believe) makes that theory have holes, I suppose.

[Post-It]

I think Storm would be able to lift it. She is considered a god by some in Africa and would maybe be considered worthy by the coolest weapon in marvel.

[Arilou]

It may have been crafted by dwarves, but Lorendiac was right when he said the hammer was originally enchanted by Odin.


I think it's a magical inscription that appears in the first language of the person viewing it. Although, trying to explain that when comics have been translated into other comics and the hammer not having been translated with them (I believe) makes that theory have holes, I suppose.

The inscription was translated at least in some issues (but then the translation has always been a bit wonky for swedish marvel titles, at one point even the names of the heroes was translated, not so anymore) I know that at least in some older comics the inscription was translated to swedish.

[Lorendiac]

Fonze81 said (in reaction to one of my long-winded posts):

wow I dont know whats worse that you had the time to think this all through and write about it .. Or I had the time to read it all and comprehend it .. lol

Strangely enough, I get that kind of reaction a lot. I wonder why? ;)

[Pop Culture Corn]

I just began wondering after being reminded of the inscription on the side of Mjolnir (Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of... Thor), whether or not a woman could wield That Which Smashes, and thus become Thor.

This also raises another question; if a woman was able to become Thor, would she become a female version (Thora...?), or simply be the recipient of an instant sex change?

I think a woman can only lift it if she thinks she'll be on one of those home makeover shows on the TLC channel. lol. Maybe the new Thor will be a woman?

[Gargus]

I think he is the reference to man or woman.

Lifting thors hammer requires someone who is pure of heart. Like captain america and superman have lifted thors hammer. Course after its need they were no longer able to hold it.

It seems to me that thanos lifted it once but just out of sheer willpower he could.

I dont recall anything even in greek mythology let alone comics there ever being a rule a man has to be the one.

[Agentum]

In Earth X Thor is a woman and is called Thor, very annoying because it's a males name.

I think there was a Thorgirl too in some story, even more stupid name as it is like calling somebody David-girl or whatever.

[PretenderNX01]

A trend now though is for girls to have boys names, so maybe by Earth X "Thor" is popular. Kinda like all the weird names people name their kids now. :p

[StoneGold]

I dont recall anything even in greek mythology let alone comics there ever being a rule a man has to be the one.
Probably because Thor was Norse mythology, not Greek.


But more to the point, there wasn't any kind of comic-booky Thor constantly losing his hammer so the baddy can try to lift it and can't routine. That was pure Stan. And maybe Larry Lieber, but that's beside the point. But the Mjolnir of myth and Mjolnir of Marvel are two different things.

[Agentum]

Mjolnir means the grinder by the way:-)

Thor also had a powerbelt called Megingjord, and when he tightned the belt he got more and more powerful.
He also had an iron glove on his hammerhand, he needed it to catch Mjolnir on it's way back.

And in the old myths Mjolnir was stolen by giants so it seems that others at least could lift it even if they could not use it.

[the4thpip]

Didn't Storm pick it up? I know there was an "X-men in Asgard" graphic novel back in the day...
She got her own hammer that Loki had the dwarfs make for her. It wasn't Mjolnir.

[Lanowar]

The mighty hammer of Thor reads

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of... Thor"

However what people don't know is that underneath that another bit of text reads.

PS No Chicks

Wonder Woman changed her apperance when she orginally picked it up she got some form of improved headdress.

I still remember when Deadpool thought he picked up the hammer and became Beta Ray Wade...

[Gargus]

Probably because Thor was Norse mythology, not Greek.


What is it with nit picky information nazis browing for mistakes to point in a sarcastic manner on the net?

So I made a error, you still understood what I meant though.

[Blackcat]

Rogue could lift the hammer if she absorbes Thor's poweres 4 sure.

Don't we have a Thor-girl in the Marvel Universe (I heared it somewhere)? I think she might be able to lift it too I guess.

[StoneGold]

What is it with nit picky information nazis browing for mistakes to point in a sarcastic manner on the net?

So I made a error, you still understood what I meant though.
What is it with people being douchebags calling other people Nazis?

And the problem there was you were trying to show off your expertise, saying you never heard of something happening in mythology, and then you got the mythology completely wrong. Not to mention your facts about what actually happened in the mythology wrong. You just don't want anyone saying anything that contradicts you. Despite the fact that you were wrong about damn near everything you wrote. Hell, I wasn't even sarcastic. I said it was Norse, not Greek, and that was it. You got even that wrong.

[Lorendiac]

I always had this crazy idea that one of the reasons we fans choose to congregate on these forums is so that we can correct each other's mistakes, fill in gaps in each other's knowledge, and generally try to improve our own understanding of the material we love to read in our spare time, with the fringe benefit of practicing how to express ourselves clearly as we type out our ideas and opinions! (But then, I'm weird. I imagine the rest of you are rolling on the floor laughing at my naive, optimistic attitude about all this? ;))

I thought it was perfectly reasonable for StoneGold to point out (briefly, before he went on to another more important point) that we're not going to find much detail about Thor and his trusty hammer in any "Greek" myths we may have been reading recently. If I had made that same slip, and someone had called me on it, I wouldn't have made a federal case out of it. I would have just nodded and said, "Right! I should have typed Norse!" and then moved on without holding any grudges!

(But, as I admitted above, I'm weird!)

[Enigmanaut]

Ron Burgundy told me that there are two important rules about women; 1) they can't be anchormen and 2) they can't lift Thor's hammer.

Is he implying that Thor is gay? ;)

[the4thpip]

Rogue could lift the hammer if she absorbes Thor's poweres 4 sure.

I don't think her power exactly covers "absorbing worthiness." The whole point of the hammer's enchantmen is that even people who are Thor's equivalent (or more) in physical strength cannot pick it up if they're not worthy.

[Person Man]

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/08/15/top-five-non-thor-mjolnir-wielders/

And here we see Wondy with the hammer. There's a difference, but not a huge one.

[Ite]

Wonder Woman can lift it.

[Camron Amaya]

What is it with nit picky information nazis browing for mistakes to point in a sarcastic manner on the net?

So I made a error, you still understood what I meant though.


lol that's like saying "Oh that's bullcrap! They don't eat dogs! I've never seen a filipino guy eat a dog when I was in Holland!"

"well that's becuz filipinos are from the filipines and they eat them there"

:D

[Uncensored]

Mjolnir means the grinder by the way:-)

Doesn't it mean "The Crusher"?

[Camron Amaya]

Doesn't it mean "The Crusher"?


Both. The meaning was never 100% clear both are possible.

Also it has links to some Russian words with mean lighting or some ish like that.

[Magneto_X]

In Earth X Thor is a woman and is called Thor, very annoying because it's a males name.


That's because she *was* Thor. Loki gave him a permanent sex change IIRC.