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View Full Version : Is Civil War worth it?

gorthon616
09-20-2006, 04:50 PM
I'm not talking about buying it, or reading it, or "Who's Side Are You On?"...

I'm talking about is it worth it from a creative stand-point. If this is the new characterization of the Marvel Universe and it's characters, is it worth it? Or was the world just better off the way it was? Is it worth the irrepairable damage (or merely the change) done to the characters, for this new world of plot possibilities?

Personally, I'm not sure. I'm half-way hoping that the Sentry will just mind-wipe the entire Marvel Universe into thinking that none of this happened. Or maybe he brainwashed everyone into making this happen.

What do you think?
Alan2099
09-20-2006, 04:55 PM
No.

Isn't this stuff what the Ultimate line is for?
gorthon616
09-20-2006, 05:07 PM
No.

Isn't this stuff what the Ultimate line is for?

While I can agree with the No, I disagree with the second statement (interrogatory).

The Ultimate line (imo) is basically there to allow the normal 616 universe to grow into different directions, by basically being the (new) old status quo. Whenever there is change, there will be a clamoring for the way things were, only remade as new. The Ultimate line is just that. Yes, they take a great deal of liberties occassionally, but at heart, this is Spider-Man pre-long-convoluted history. Same with all the characters. But the normal universe has all of that history, and part of history is growing and changing from it.
Joe Acro
09-20-2006, 05:23 PM
...part of history is growing and changing from it.
Hitler changed Napoleon's planned so much.:rolleyes:
Alan2099
09-20-2006, 05:35 PM
While I can agree with the No, I disagree with the second statement (interrogatory).

The Ultimate line (imo) is basically there to allow the normal 616 universe to grow into different directions, by basically being the (new) old status quo. Whenever there is change, there will be a clamoring for the way things were, only remade as new. The Ultimate line is just that. Yes, they take a great deal of liberties occassionally, but at heart, this is Spider-Man pre-long-convoluted history. Same with all the characters. But the normal universe has all of that history, and part of history is growing and changing from it.
Changing from your hsitory is oen thing, having something come out of nowhere, wreck everything in sight, and having everybody act out of character for the story to work is a vastly different thing. Nothing built up to this. IIt just suddenly blew up and all the main characters were replaced by pod-people.

I'd also argue that the Ultimate are "at heart" the Avengers. There's a few superficial resemblances, but that's about it.
Sam T.
09-20-2006, 05:39 PM
Civil War isn't even finished yet....but I believe it is one of the best Marvel Events in quite awhile!!
gorthon616
09-20-2006, 05:57 PM
Changing from your hsitory is oen thing, having something come out of nowhere, wreck everything in sight, and having everybody act out of character for the story to work is a vastly different thing. Nothing built up to this. IIt just suddenly blew up and all the main characters were replaced by pod-people.

I'd also argue that the Ultimate are "at heart" the Avengers. There's a few superficial resemblances, but that's about it.

Right. I agree with what you say, totally. Like I said, I'm Civil War sucks, but the new world order that is being established is interesting. If I was a writer I would love to play in it, despite the fact the story that birthed it was horrible. But at the end I'm also on the "not worth it" side as well.

Most of the ultimate books are really at heart their normal universe counterparts. That's one of the things that grates me about Millar on Civil War. Ultimates 2 was awesome. This? Ugh.
Jmacq1
09-20-2006, 06:17 PM
It's probably "ugh" because if you turn it upside down and look at it in the mirror, it's "Ultimates 2" all over again, only sucky. And this time America will end up the one with the army of superhumans. ;)
Taniwha
09-20-2006, 06:23 PM
Yeah, uh, NO. Civil War is ... what's that old Bloom County joke? Civil War does for Marvel Comics what Jonestown did for Kool Aid.

The utter corruption of a long-proud line of heroes, turning Iron Man AGAIN into a fascist villain, turning the Fantastic FOur against each other?

I mean, what, Marvel thinks they can wrap this series up with "ooops, sorry Cap, sorry Tony, we were just angry at nuthin', aw shucks"?

Sod that. They've ruined the 616 universe for good.

AND They're gonna kill off Mary Jane, based on the solicit images, no?

Screw that. Time to learn to love DC comics instead.

http://deaduniverse.blogspot.com
StoneGold
09-20-2006, 07:00 PM
AND They're gonna kill off Mary Jane, based on the solicit images, no?

No. That's an image for Spider-Man: The Reigning, an out of continuity future Spider-Man story.


Fill in standard counter to Marvel is making their universe all dark with standard have you ever actually read any Marvel comics, they were always pretty dark defense.
John Doe Jnr
09-20-2006, 07:25 PM
I'm not talking about buying it, or reading it, or "Who's Side Are You On?"...



Personally, I'm not sure. I'm half-way hoping that the Sentry will just mind-wipe the entire Marvel Universe into thinking that none of this happened. Or maybe he brainwashed everyone into making this happen.



Sorry this is Marvel. Not DC.
Kevinroc
09-20-2006, 07:44 PM
Why are you referring to the story in the past-tense like it's already over? We're only about half-way into it.
Loestal
09-20-2006, 08:08 PM
Why are you referring to the story in the past-tense like it's already over? We're only about half-way into it.


That's what I was wondering. Who knows, for those of you who don't like it...by the end, it could all come together and make perfect sense. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and has a right to voice it on these boards...but it's gotten to the point of just simple trolling anymore. It's getting old.
Spider-Sense
09-20-2006, 11:23 PM
So far,I'm loving it.
Spider-Sense
09-20-2006, 11:24 PM
Sorry this is Marvel. Not DC.

Well remebered.;)
alextron
09-21-2006, 06:36 AM
Yeah, they certainly did Spidey in anyways, maybe Iron man too. If Iron Man wasn't the guy that led this and screwed it up, just believed it in principle I could see it. But they portray him as the bad guy. Man, I'm going to miss Spider-man.
CapFan
09-21-2006, 07:45 AM
I think its worth buying the 7 comics even if your personal opinion differs. Sometimes an interesting story needs a big controversy.
gorthon616
09-21-2006, 10:20 AM
That's what I was wondering. Who knows, for those of you who don't like it...by the end, it could all come together and make perfect sense. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and has a right to voice it on these boards...but it's gotten to the point of just simple trolling anymore. It's getting old.

If you read the top, this wasn't about liking it or disliking it (and I was trying to avoid that), but rather if what it establishes (the new SHRA world) is worth the storyline (which some people do not enjoy). Personally I like the idea of what it is setting up, but dislike the story. In the long run, I think the new world that it establishes will set-up some nice and interesting plot arc, but again the cost (for me) is pretty high. I was curious if anyone else held the same opinion.

Are the Anti-Civil War people trolling? Maybe. Maybe not. I always considered trolling to be looking for a fight just to look for a fight. But for the most part we're just fans with an opinion who browse this forum from time to time. And if people who enjoy the comic are allowed to --purely on the face of liking it-- state that they do, I think it's fair for people who dislike the comic to have the right to freely voice their opinion similarly. This is a forum, not a fanclub, so I don't feel the need to acquiesce to any opinion. Nor should anyone else feel the need to acquiesce to mine.
We R. Venom
09-21-2006, 11:01 AM
What the F*** do you mean is, was CW worth it? What the Hell type of S***?! It's not even over yet.
Joe Acro
09-21-2006, 11:57 AM
I think its worth buying the 7 comics even if your personal opinion differs. Sometimes an interesting story needs a big controversy.
After the first issue I was underimpressed and didn't like where this was going. However, my creative integrity won't let me just stop reading the story (unless there's some circumstance) without knowing the ending.
Magneto Rocks
09-21-2006, 12:09 PM
Definitely worth it. Firstly, the characterizations honestly aren't as radical as many people claim. In general, it is characters acting WITHIN the way they have ALWAYS been portrayed, but pushed to more extremes. Fantastic story- have to borroq a quote from IGN here.

If it keeps up as it has so far, it will be the 'Watchmen' of the modern era. As they say- normally Marvel hypes things too much. But they haven't hyped Civil War enough.
bulbasteve
09-21-2006, 12:46 PM
Well it will be less pretentious at least... that's good, right?
twoarmman
09-21-2006, 01:09 PM
I think its worth buying the 7 comics even if your personal opinion differs. Sometimes an interesting story needs a big controversy.

Yeah, but the problem is that it isn't 7 issues. It's pretty much every Marvel book. Civil War is just the main book. I think it's a pretty bad book, and I hate that it's taking so many other other Marvel books down with it.