Cover detached...

[gking727]

What is the highest grade you would ever put on a comic that has it's cover detached? Would you simply grade it as if the cover were attached and knock off a couple of points? Or, would there be other factors involved? Maybe the ease with which it could be restored ,(let's put aside the restored vs. unrestored debate for the time being) the scarcity, or the fact that it's a key issue?

Thoughts?

[Kan-Man]

What is the highest grade you would ever put on a comic that has it's cover detached? Would you simply grade it as if the cover were attached and knock off a couple of points? Or, would there be other factors involved? Maybe the ease with which it could be restored ,(let's put aside the restored vs. unrestored debate for the time being) the scarcity, or the fact that it's a key issue?

Thoughts?

My instinct is to give it the lowest grade possible. When you look at how even a slight imperfection lowers a grade such as stress around the staples or slight discoloration - a detached cover becomes huge using those standards. It kind of reminds me of those who collect books. Even the most valuable editions can become worthless without the dust jacket.

Just my opinion. I'm no expert.

[telerites]

I have a few CGC copies of Golden Age books with their covers detached. One is graded as VG/FN 5.0 and another is a G- 1.8. It seems to me I've seen even higher graded copies (>5.0) with detached covers.

Not sure if this helps but it seems that with the cover being detached does not automatically put it as lower grade. Of course that is relying on CGC being the experts.

[T GUy]

the fact that it's a key issue?

The fact that it's a key issue or not has nothing whatsoever to do with its condition.

[MichikoS]

This is a problem without a definitive answer. You might check out the discussions going on at the uber-geek collectors' forum, COLLECTORS' SOCIETY. The discussion on the boards can often be impenetrably technical and abstruse, but they talk about lots of difficult grading issues in depth, ad nauseam. I mean no disrespect. These folks are in a whole 'nother world. Since I don't do high-end CGC collecting, most of this stuff is outside of my interest area.

http://www.collectors-society.com/

Michi

[Lone Ranger]

I am no grading expert, but I can only imagine CGC would only issue a grade above 1.5 or so as one of their 'Qualified Grades'. You know, 'but for the fact that pages 1 through 20 are missing, this book is NM 9.4'.

If I was selling a book with the cover detached on eBay, I wouldn't grade it any higher than a GD (2.0), and a GD-(1.8) if it had any other flaws.

If a single staple is detach, I tend to bring those down to a maximum VG- (3.5) even if it a gorgeous book.

As a buyer, I don't like detached covers and/or single staples as I need to be even more careful with the book, so I'd be pissed if I bought what was advertised as a VG/F to find out that the cover was detached.

In terms of scarcity/key issues - that certainly would impact the grade, but it could contribute to what percentage of grade people are willing to page for it.

Some books are in high demand, and even severe damage won't deter people from paying big bucks for them.

Here a Batman #8 I was interested in bidding on, Batman #8 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/BATMAN-8-DEC-1941-JAN-1942-JOKER-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ230029135559QQihZ013QQcategoryZ35 751QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). As you can see, the cover was ripped right down the middle and taped up - a very amateurish job.

This is the holy grail of infinity cover and I'd like to pick up a low grade copy as some point. With a couple of days left, this one is already at $150. This tells me that this is a sought after issue, where the selling price may not be consistent with the value assigned to it in this grade by Overstreet.

I don't have the Overstreet handy, but I'd imagine that this book is already at least 50% of the Good Price. If this were a less 'in demand' book - let's just say some random copy of Boy Comics, there's no way it would be that high a percentage of Good.

[telerites]

I am no grading expert, but I can only imagine CGC would only issue a grade above 1.5 or so as one of their 'Qualified Grades'. You know, 'but for the fact that pages 1 through 20 are missing, this book is NM 9.4'.

I guess old age and a bad memory are getting to me. I could have sworn one of my CGC graded golden age books had a cover detached and graded as a 5.0 but it has a centerfold detached and grades as a universal 5.0.

I do have one book with a cover detached that grades as a universal 1.8. As far as scarcity and desirability - this book is Exciting Comics #28 - a gerber no-show with an awesome Schomburg cover. The grading shouldn't be impacted my these factors but I agree with Scott that it does affect what people are willing to pay. I am not sure what CGC standards for a detached cover. I can say that it does not put a book in a qualified grade.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/telerites/exciting28s.jpg

[gking727]

Thanks all, great comments one and all.

The fact that it's a key issue or not has nothing whatsoever to do with its condition.

Absolutely. In that case I was thinking of more from the point of view as a buyer than a grader. Similar to the Batman #8 cited below, if it's a sought after issue, how far above the "cover detached grade" would you go in terms of what you would spend. Up another 1/2 grade, maybe a full one if the comic were in good enogh shape other than the detached cover?

If a single staple is detach, I tend to bring those down to a maximum VG- (3.5) even if it a gorgeous book.

Well, technically, one of the books I'm talking about is only detached at one staple. By all appearances, that's all it ever had. It's a copy of Blackhawk #9 I've checked very closely and can find no trace of a second staple ever having been there. Just one in the center. Here's a scan.

http://home.comcast.net/~gking727/scan0110.jpg

I've also got a copy of Joe Palooka in the Lost City that never had staples either as the cover was actually was glued on. Over time the glue has simply dried out and the cover fell off. This one is why I was asking about ease of restoration as a factor. Someone able to apply the right glue with a steady hand could have this baby fixed up in no time.

http://home.comcast.net/~gking727/scan0109.jpg

Somewhere else, I've got an X-men annual that I bought right off the rack and it never had staples put in it either. Just got missed somehow at the factory. It's probably a 9.6 but does it drop to a 1.8 or is it worth even more as an "error" copy. There's a debate for the Collector's society!

thanks again y'all!

[Aaron King]

I worked in a low-volume comic store for two years (summer 2004 to summer 2006) and we once received a comic with no staples. It was truly bizarre. No staples, no staple holes, just the cover with the pages inside (which promptly fell out when I took the book out of the box). So what am I trying to say? I don't know. Just that weird things can happen on the assembly line.

[Lone Ranger]

I have a copy of Johnny Quest Classics with no staples, and no evidence that anyone ever tried to staple the book.

It's a beautiful looking book, but I've got to read it ever so carefully or it all ends up on the floor.

[Jolly Mon]

On the subject of weird things happen on the assembly line, a few years ago I got a copy of the Titans that had about 10 pages from that month's JSA stuck in the middle of it instead of the Titans story. I ended up getting another copy so I could read the story (which I kind of regretted because it wasn't good enough that I was thrilled with paying for it once, much less twice). I kept the odd copy just for the novelty, doubt it's really worth anything.

[Samurai]

The single staple book probably isn't an error. What year is it? During WW2, some publishers cut back from 2 staples to one in an effort to save metal for the war industry. I have several single staple books from that era.

[Ray R.]

Personally, a book with a detached cover could probably be as high as a 3.0 depending on the rest of the book: cover gloss, page whiteness, lack of rips, tears, creases, etc.

My reasoning is that the book is complete. As long as it is all there, detached cover or centerfold wrap, then the detached cover is just a defect, a major one granted, but not enough to ignore the rest of the book.

Missing pages or front and/or back covers drop a book down to poor for me (.5 - 1.5) no matter what. Even cut out coupons, stamps or send-away offers, for me, drop a book down to poor, because the book is incomplete, even if the art pages are not affected. "Qualified" grades are for suckers.

Now one could argue that missing staples make a book incomplete, and I would concur, still, as has been noted, a good number of books during wartime were saddle-bound with one staple, and low quality metal, high oxidation susceptible staples at that. In most cases of detached covers, the staple is still there, just not connected to the cover. How much tearing away from the staples is evident on the cover also affects grade.......

In any case, I've seen more cases of people trying amateur restoration by adding multiple staples, than books with no staples. Nothing like a perfectly good book with five staples running down the side. And beware the semi-professional who replaces old rusty staples with brand new ones in order to try to improve the appearance. You can tell the difference though...older staples are thicker, are made of a completely different metal composition and have less bend at the fold in the wrap.....even if unethical types conveniently forget to note the "improvement."