Religious Characters In Marvel

[Nogs]

The other day I was thinking about religion and comic books. Now I know what you are thinking, "Not this again". But hear me out. I'm not looking for how religion itself is portrayed in comic books or superheroes. None of that Superman is = to Christ stuff.

What I'm interested in is the way religious *characters* are portrayed in comic books. First one that pops into my head is Magneto. He is either Jewish or Gypsy.

I think the first step is listing what characters are what religion. I think this will porbably be a pretty short list, as most comic book characters are never mentioned to be one religion or the other.

Ultimately, I think I might want to use this information and see how their characters are portrayed, and see if there are any significant parallels, or if it effects how the character acts.

I'm a religious studies major, and recently got back into the comic book world after a 10 year hiatus. So, although I know most general things, I'm probably not as versed as some of you in this area. I'll see if I can start off the list. Off the top of my head this is what I got:

Magneto: Jewish, or Gypsy
Nightcrawler: Christian - Catholic
The Thing(Ben Grimm): Jewish
Daredevil: Catholic(I think)

[mattbib]

Shadowcat is Jewish, as is Sabra.
Firebird is Christian, though I don't know which denomination.

[Alan2099]

This might help.
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html

[Syzygy]

No thank you.

Religion doesn't really seem to work in Marvel anyway. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all place mankind in a priviliged position in the universe. But in Marvel, you've got a universe full of aliens, and indeed, a whole omniverse full of alternate earths and alien beings, and more. In such an environment, how reasonable is it to believe that the entire purpose of creation revolves around something that happened in Palestine 2,000 years ago? Or Mecca?

You've got demons, but they're not the demons of the Bible. You've got the gods of multiple patheons. It's just not reasonable for any experienced superhero to stick to so parochial or pre-Copernican an outlook in such a cosmopolitan, post-Copernican universe.

Look at, for example, how silly Rahne Sinclair (Wolvesbane) seemed, going on about how her powers were "tainted gifts of Satan". This was the correct conclusion for her to draw from her Christian background, and yet in Marvel, it was totally wrong and inappropriate.

So, religion in comics? No thanks.

Peace,
Syzygy

[protege]

What about Daredevil? he's really steeped in Catholicism.

[Deadpooligan]

Mags is actually a born Jewish who was raised by gypsies in his youth.

His kids, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are gypsy.

Dr. Doom is of course, gypsy.

Moon Knight is a former Jew who now practices worship in the Egyptian deity Khonshu.

Thing is Marvel's #1 Jew obviously (he had his bar mitzvah not too long ago).

Wolverine was probably raised Catholic or maybe somewhat like a Puritan. I got the gist of it in Origin.

Spider-Man should be Jewish if anything. (Forest Hills, Queens in the 1960's is a real giveaway, though his age is obviously not consistant with this currently) Also, he did get married in a church, which kinda goes against this, though it may have just been Mary Jane's faith.

Iceman's Jewish.

I also consider Juggernaut as Jewish since saying "the Jewggernaut" is really funny. Also, thinking of such a big guy being mortally afraid of his mother is even funnier.

Cable is Askani. At least I think it's a faith...

[LordEd1976]

Living Lightning is Christian, possibly Catholic
Sasquatch is Jewish
US Agent may have been raised Christian but is at the moment somewhat lapsed.
I believe the Atlanteans still worship Neptune
I think I remember an old New Mutants story that featured a group of people that still worshiped Hercules.
The Daredevil villian Bushwhacker was formally a priest, possibly Roman Catholic.
The Vampire Hunters from the old Tomb of Dracula series were probably Catholic to a certain degree since they used crucifixs against Dracula and if I remember correctly a person can only use a religous symbol as an effective weapon against a vampire only if they believe in the power of said symbol.

[mattbib]

I think I remember an old New Mutants story that featured a group of people that still worshiped Hercules.The Nova Romans worship the Roman pantheon. Hercules isn't a god, so I while he's probably revered I don't think he's worshiped.

[the eternal]

i thought about daredevil too, for me it worked.

[Dizzy D]

The Nova Romans worship the Roman pantheon. Hercules isn't a god, so I while he's probably revered I don't think he's worshiped.

Hercules was worshipped as a god by the Romans and Greeks. He had shrines and temples dedicated to him. In the myths Hercules became a full-fledged god after his mortality was burned away. Dionysos is another demi-god (at least a demi-god in most versions of his myth) becoming a full-fledged god, so it isn't uncommon.

[lament]

Aurora was raised by nuns, but they kind of screwed her up by beating her and calling her a blasphemer (I believe) when she told someone she could fly.

Storm was worshipped as a goddess.

[Arilou]

The Nova Romans worship the Roman pantheon. Hercules isn't a god, so I while he's probably revered I don't think he's worshiped.

Hercules is very much a god. He was the subject of quite serious worship in ancient Rome and Greece.

Eddie Brock is a catholic. Villain, not a hero, but still.

Dust of course is sunni moslem.

Sue Storm is a christian I believe.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

the Black Knight is chritian most likely catholic
Dust from New X-men is Muslim

[Mark (nonick)]

Crusader is Christian for sure. Not sure the denomination.

[Deadpooligan]

Crusader is Christian for sure. Not sure the denomination.

Judging not only by the name, but also the character's history, he's completely Roman Catholic. His mission is to fight "Pagans" (which is pretty much anybody not Catholic according to him).

On a different note, does anyone here know of Norse worshipers in the MU?

[OdinSon1]

On a different note, does anyone here know of Norse worshipers in the MU?

If I remember correctly in the 2099 continuity worship of the Norse was the most commonly practiced religion. The majority of the population, including main characters, Punisher 2099 for example, were members of the Church of Thor. In fact, a whole major crossover arc was done where a company endowed people with enhanced strength and technological weapons, then brainwashed them to believe they really were the Norse Gods, but were eventually defeated by the heroes of 2099.

[DDM]

The Nova Romans worship the Roman pantheon. Hercules isn't a god, so I while he's probably revered I don't think he's worshiped.

Hercules is the Roman name for the Greek Heracles. Their stories are identical though.

[XPac]

In the Infinity Cruasade Crossover, I think everyone that ended up on the Goddess side was either religious or at least spiritual. So that showed a good half of the hero community to fall under one of those categories.

[Brandon McKinnis]

Anyone know what my boy Luke Cage practices?

[Captain Exaggeration]

This might help.
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html
Joseph Smith of the Super Best Friends! I just read the list of Moromon heroes and it lists him and has a pic! :D

[Magneto_X]

U.S. Agent is an Evangelical.

[brainfloat]

Wolverine and Quasar are Athiests.

[Magneto_X]

Wolverine and Quasar are Athiests.

I could never understand how *any* Earthbound super-hero or villian would be an athiest and/or agnostic.

They've seen gods up close!

[Ullar]

yeah but not "God" at least the jew.chrittian.cathloic/musl;im/any othe rreligion god.

[Magneto_X]

yeah but not "God" at least the jew.chrittian.cathloic/musl;im/any othe rreligion god.

What about the Living Tribunal, Eternity or Death?

Plus there are several other pantheons in the MU. Like the ones who visited Odin during Infinite Gauntlet.

[Arilou]

The God of the MU is Jack Kirby.

[Deadpooligan]

Anyone know what my boy Luke Cage practices?

He does like saying Sweet Christmas... a lot... and he got married in a church by father Stan Lee. I'm going with christian, either by his own upbringing or his wife's. Ha ha, I just got a really funny image of Luke at a gospel church.

Wolverine [is an] Athiest.

That can't be true. He was praying at his elder brother's gravestone in the second issue of Origin, and I'm sure there was a line about Rose and him wanting to get married in a church.

I don't think he's renounced his faith per se, but he certainly isn't the best at what he does in regard to religion...

Basically, he believes in a higher power, and therefore not an atheist.

Edit:
I could never understand how *any* Earthbound super-hero or villian would be an athiest and/or agnostic.

They've seen gods up close!

The High Evolutionary is athiest, for obvious reasons.

[LordEd1976]

That can't be true. He was praying at his elder brother's gravestone in the second issue of Origin, and I'm sure there was a line about Rose and him wanting to get married in a church.

I don't think he's renounced his faith per se, but he certainly isn't the best at what he does in regard to religion...

Basically, he believes in a higher power, and therefore not an atheist.


I would have to put Wolverine down as a lapsed Catholic. He probably started out precticing but decades of pain and all the bad stuff he's seen and done have more than likely had a negative impact on any beilef he may have in a higher power.

[brundlefly]

What I'm interested in is the way religious *characters* are portrayed in comic books. First one that pops into my head is Magneto. He is either Jewish or Gypsy.


Not sure if he's a current practitioner or not these days. Referring to a line from FATAL ATTRACTIONS (and I'm paraphrasing):
"He (Magneto) whispers a prayer to a god he no longer believes in."
But sure, you're right in that he's technically Jewish. I think of the X-characters that Kurt is the standout devout religious guy. Can't think offhand of too many others whose faith plays as big a role in the way that they're portrayed.

[marshal99]

What about aquarian aka Space Jesus ? :D He has his own new age followers.
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/images/f/f2/Aquarian_001.gif

[mattbib]

Hercules was worshipped as a god by the Romans and Greeks. He had shrines and temples dedicated to him. In the myths Hercules became a full-fledged god after his mortality was burned away. Dionysos is another demi-god (at least a demi-god in most versions of his myth) becoming a full-fledged god, so it isn't uncommon.Interesting, thanks.
Hercules is very much a god. He was the subject of quite serious worship in ancient Rome and Greece.
I know he is a favored son of Zeus, but within the context of the MU isn't he just a demi-god, since he's half-human, given god-like powers?

Hercules is the Roman name for the Greek Heracles. Their stories are identical though.Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone's aware of that.

[StoneGold]

I could never understand how *any* Earthbound super-hero or villian would be an athiest and/or agnostic.

They've seen gods up close!
How would you worship God on a first name basis if you kicked his ass in last week's cosmic crisis?


The real question is, when you know your universe is ruled over by a One Above All, the guy who bosses around the Living Tribunal, how are you going to believe any religion which doesn't have a giant multi-faced yellow space dude with no fingers, neck or penis as a major part of it's cosmology? Seriously, who'd bet on Jesus against this guy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Livingtribunal.JPG

Huh, come to think of it, it would be interesting if someone in the MU put together a religion that actually is based on the way their cosmology works. with the One Above All at the top, the Tribunal, the Celestials, Galactus, maybe the Beyonders, all thrown in as deities. I mean, since we know humanity was created by the Celestials.

[mattbib]

I mean, since we know humanity was created by the Celestials.When was that established?

I know the Celestials experimented on early man, creating the Eternals and Deviants, and implanting the X-factor that would some day cause mutancy...but creating humans?

[StoneGold]

When was that established?

I know the Celestials experimented on early man, creating the Eternals and Deviants, and implanting the X-factor that would some day cause mutancy...but creating humans?
First issue of The Eternals, Volume 1. Proto-man already existed. Celestials pushed them into humanity, though.

From Eternals Vol 1 #1, page 10:

"Only the instruments of the gods could do what was done in that momentous time! To the ape was given the cosmic chemistry that would father the races to come!

In this manner, the Dawn Ape became the new common ancestor of three powerful new species: The Deviant! An ever-changing and destructive failure! The Human! This species bred with true balance of structure and disposition. Although he was a destroyer, the human was capable of building for peace. The Eternal! He was more a child of the gods than of earth... he reached for the universe!"

[brainfloat]

(Wolverine an athiest?)That can't be true. He was praying at his elder brother's gravestone in the second issue of Origin, and I'm sure there was a line about Rose and him wanting to get married in a church.

Wolverine must have got religion within the past decade, I remember from (I'm guessing an 80's X-Men maybe earlier) that Nightcrawler and Wolverine clashed in thier beliefs before becuase I am positive that Nightcrawler once told Wolverine that he must be very alone because he's athiest.

(or maybe he lost it, considering continuty)

[brainfloat]

The God of the MU is Jack Kirby.

... maybe that's how he appears to you.:D

[Darkwave]

Iceman's Jewish.


Just curious -- what's the basis for this? I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just that this is the first I've heard of this, and I've pretty much read just about every X-book out there.

[Carlton Donaghe]

It seems to me that a lot of the "religious" beliefs of Marvel characters are modern retrofits.

For instance, Ben Grimm's being Jewish is something that was recently tacked on by modern writers, kinda like him not having a penis. In older comics, he was shown celebrating Christmas, even.

I think Iceman's being Jewish is also an example of this.

In the early Marvel (up through the mid-late seventies, anyway), religion just wasn't that big of a deal. I think Nightcrawler was one of the first to have his religion spelled out, but even then, Dave Cockrum-- the man who invented the character-- was pretty upset when he found out Nightcrawler was being labeled a Catholic... so I'd say even that one was tacked on later.

I think it's a sign of the fairly conservative times (also political correctness gone wild) we live in that we're seeing all this stuff being retconned in.

[Nogs]

It seems to me that a lot of the "religious" beliefs of Marvel characters are modern retrofits.

For instance, Ben Grimm's being Jewish is something that was recently tacked on by modern writers, kinda like him not having a penis. In older comics, he was shown celebrating Christmas, even.

I think Iceman's being Jewish is also an example of this.

In the early Marvel (up through the mid-late seventies, anyway), religion just wasn't that big of a deal. I think Nightcrawler was one of the first to have his religion spelled out, but even then, Dave Cockrum-- the man who invented the character-- was pretty upset when he found out Nightcrawler was being labeled a Catholic... so I'd say even that one was tacked on later.

I think it's a sign of the fairly conservative times (also political correctness gone wild) we live in that we're seeing all this stuff being retconned in.

Thats interesting. I'll definitely be looking into that. What I'm really looking for is characters taht have story arcs, or are obviously religious in some way - and how it affects their actions or develops their character.

Nightcrawler being and example of someone who is always going around talking about christianity. It's part of who he is.

Iceman on the otherhand seems like he is a being called jewish jsut for the hell of it. Its never really been a *part* of the character. And haveing bobby talk about religion in a serious way would just be stupid and out of character.

[StoneGold]

I think it's a sign of the fairly conservative times (also political correctness gone wild) we live in that we're seeing all this stuff being retconned in.
With Ben, it was less any kind of PC or conservativeness (kind of ironic shoving those together though) and more an attempt to actually make him Jack Kirby. If you notice the last couple of years, since at least the late 90s, Ben has become Jack's avatar in the MU more and more, even being drawn to look a little more like him when in human form. That, and apparently Kirby always considered Ben Jewish. There's a synagogue in Simi Valley in California that Kirby belonged to that has a piece of artwork from him hanging in it of Ben wearing a kippah and a tallis while reading the Torah. So it was less any kind of spiritual agenda, more the final phase of turning the Thing into Jack Kirby.

Other than that, a lot of it is just fleshing out character backgrounds. When Frank Miller made DareDevil Catholic, it wasn't making any kind of a message, but gave the character a deeper background. Iceman's ethnic diversity (because it has nothing to do with religion, he's half-Jewish by heritage, not by practice) is an attempt to give him a little more dimension, although it is kind of half-hearted.

When you get down to it, for 99% of superheroes, their religion is nothing more than background info. Name me a character who actually practices their religion, other than a couple of characters with fake religions whose powers are intertwined with them. What, Nightcrawler, DareDevil, and the only times we ever see him in church is usually when he just got his ass kicked and he wants to see his mom. Josiah X for his three whole appearances, and that's only because he's a Muslim clergyman. Beyond that, I'm pretty much stumped.

[filthysize]

Right. Really, unless, you have the religion be a super-specific and important element of the character (like what they made Nightcrawler to be), it tends to be flexible. Sometimes you'll see a superhero or a villain confide in a Priest just for story purposes, but then they'd somehow declare him Jewish. It happens.

Wolverine is an obvious case. Writers who remember his Japan background
would show him praying like a Buddhist or visit Buddhist temples. Others don't care, and have him pray in a church. Then there are writers who think that religion doesn't fit Logan's demeanor, and have him be a skeptic or an atheist.

[Nogs]

I wonder if any of the more mystical/religious character's are religious. First one that I'm wondering about right now is Blade and any other people that's stories are regularly steeped in religious stuff. I think I might be posting this in DC universe to, as I'm curious as to how they handle the same issue.

[Deadpooligan]

For instance, Ben Grimm's being Jewish is something that was recently tacked on by modern writers, kinda like him not having a penis. In older comics, he was shown celebrating Christmas, even.

Was the circumcision really that bad? *ba-dum-dum* *rimshot*

I thought the answer to the whole FF genital thing was implied in Mallrats.

[Magneto_X]

What about aquarian aka Space Jesus ? :D He has his own new age followers.
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/images/f/f2/Aquarian_001.gif

Marvel's Space Jesus is Norrin Radd (or Adam Warlock), not this guy!

[LordEd1976]

For instance, Ben Grimm's being Jewish is something that was recently tacked on by modern writers, kinda like him not having a penis. In older comics, he was shown celebrating Christmas, even.



I think it was Vision who had his male organ retconned out.

As for Ben Grimm. Yeah, he may have joined in on Christmas celebrations but then again there's no rule that says someone of a different religion can't take part in another's celebration. I'm Catholic but I've taken part in a Passover meal. Not to mention I have a cousin whose Jewish yet he comes to Christmas dinner.

[Carlton Donaghe]

I thought I remembered some FF story where one of the reasons why the Torch was teasing Ben so hard was to take his mind off what he lost. I've seen so many crappy Marvel retrofits in the last 15-20 years it's hard to remember.

[OdinSon1]

Wolverine is an athiest. When the X-Men clashed with Dracula he tried to use a cross to hold Dracula at bay. However the only way any religious iconography or symbol holds a vampire at bay is if you have faith in it, the stronger your faith, the more it repells the vampire. Since Wolverine's cross was completely useless, he has no faith in it, and since he was at one time a Christian, he has renounced his Christianity and become an athiest.

And off the top of my head I believe Dan Ketch's Ghost Rider was an athiest.

[Omega Alpha]

Wolverine is an athiest. When the X-Men clashed with Dracula he tried to use a cross to hold Dracula at bay. However the only way any religious iconography or symbol holds a vampire at bay is if you have faith in it, the stronger your faith, the more it repells the vampire. Since Wolverine's cross was completely useless, he has no faith in it, and since he was at one time a Christian, he has renounced his Christianity and become an athiest.


Couldn't it mean that he is just not very religious, or is not religious at all? The cross made effect only with Nightcrawler, which is one of the most religious characters in the MU.

[SteelChrysanthemum]

And off the top of my head I believe Dan Ketch's Ghost Rider was an athiest.A person infested by a demon doesn't believe in higher powers? o.0

[Loestal]

Couldn't it mean that he is just not very religious, or is not religious at all? The cross made effect only with Nightcrawler, which is one of the most religious characters in the MU.


That's exactly what it means. It doesn't make him an Atheist.

[OdinSon1]

A person infested by a demon doesn't believe in higher powers? o.0

I found the issue I was looking for and here's what happens. Ghost Rider runs into Varnae in Cypress Hills cemetary. He tries to stand behind a tombstone with a crucifix structure on top of it, but it doesn't stop Varnae from advancing. However his dagger bares the mark of the Midnight Sons, and when he used that on Varnae it burned him since the Midnight Sons symbol was a worshipped artifact of good in Hyperborean times.

Now if I remember correctly, crosses cannot ward off Varnae since he was from the Hyperborean era, and Christianity was not a practiced faith in that time, so Christian iconography would have no effect on him.

Yet during a stand off with a Montesi, I forget which, the Montesi uses a cross to hold Varnae at bay, and it works, with Varnae having to trick him into losing his footing, falling and dropping the cross.

So either Montessi is an exception due to his extreme faith, Varnae is indeed vulnerable to crosses yet the Ghost Rider had no faith in the Christian God, or Marvel just screwed up.

[StoneGold]

A person infested by a demon doesn't believe in higher powers? o.0
Given that in the MU, demons have nothing to do with any kind of religious cosmology, and are actually splinters of the entity that originally made up the Infinity Gems, anything is possible. What, do you think the Silver Surfer has any particular religious bent? And he's the dude Mephisto first went after.

[Bobster777]

I liked Nightcrawler being religious, but they've gone away from that lately.