Why no love for Enterprise?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I just saw the first episode of Star Trek Enterprise, the new series with Bakula and I have to say I liked it.
Wasn´t blown away by it I definitelly enjoyed it and wouldn´t mind following it regularly, see where it leads.

It shows the federation in its VERY early days, when the first ship sailed out of the solar system at a whooping warp 4.5 (Woo-hoo! :p ) and things like teleportation and universal translators were still somewhat of a dream.

I like it, seeing mankind take its first baby steps out there in the universe...

So I am intrigued, why is it whenever someone mentions this show, a diatribe ensues?

Did it go downhill from here?

[titanfan]

Yes, it went downhill into nowhereness for much of it's run. Just watch the next few episodes.

That said, I think it actually got really really good again in the last half of the last season.

[Phil Clark]

I enjoyed most of the run of Enterprise, but then again, I am not your usual nit-pick-it-to-hell-and-claim-to-hate-it-because-it-isn't-TOS(the original series) fanboy. ;)

All in all, it was a fun show, with Bakula playing a wonderful captain who matured throughout the run of the show, and grew into the man history says he would become (future history that is).

I want to own the whole series so I can rewatch it again from time to time.

[Steve Brady]

Season Three is the best season. Season four is pretty good. Anytime Jeffrey Combs shows up is pure solid entertainment.

I don't want to spoil you, but there is eventually a relationship on this show, which I found to be the most adult and well-done relationship on any Trek show ever.

[Cyke]

I like it, seeing mankind take its first baby steps out there in the universe...

So I am intrigued, why is it whenever someone mentions this show, a diatribe ensues?

Did it go downhill from here?

For me, and I'll try not to get into a diatribe here, it's that any sense of exploration and excitement is robbed when you realize that the crew is often involved in domestic disputes and that the aliens are all remarkably similar. There's no sense of cosmic wonder and feeling very insignificant, and at the same time no sense of actually going where no man has gone before. It's totally cool that we see the origins of Fed/Klingon relations and how Vulcans helped shape Earth into what it is in TNG. But much of the familiar species and situations on the show are treated exactly like that: familiar. It's as if the writers looked back at the previous 4 series, then came back writing the aliens the same way, but without the introduction.

Plus, really bad writing and pacing. There's a group of highly talented actors, each with their own skills and perks and each of them very charismatic, but reduced to yelling out 'hull plating down to 74%' in every other episode.

Now, like all other haters of Enterprise, I do believe that once Manny Coto came on board, the stakes were raised and the stories were much more imaginative and coherent. While it's a shame that Enterprise was cancelled at the height of its creative streak, it's lucky that it had so long to get into that streak in the first place; most shows would be lucky to survive past season 2, so in a way, I feel that UPN was pretty generous to the show in the first place.

[Sanagi]

Enterprise had its moments but suffered from bland characters and not enough departures from the now badly cliched Trek formula. Season two is pretty much a void of boredom, while the third and fourth seasons begin to turn things around but are still subject to frustrating turns such as the awful series finale.

[ragnarok_2012]

I stuck with it for part of season 1.

I wasn't impressed with the writing, the characters were bland, and they tried to make up for those shortcomings by having the actors spend a portion of every episode in their underwear rubbing lotion over each other ("It rubs the lotion on its body or it doesn't get the acting part!").

And the writers have come out and admitted that they were making up the Temporal Cold War storyline as they went. They didn't even decide on the identity of "future guy." This is a really bad idea.

[dougiemccoy]

I like the whole thing...yes some of it was not the greatest...but when it was on it was great stuff...and Bakula captain was lots of fun...i miss the show...the Spike channel needs to give Startrek it own night...all of them on one night....maybe friday because us geeks don't date anyhow...

[Hush Little Batman]

Enterprise's pilot started off strong but then the rest of the first season went downhill and it never picked up again until Manny Coto came onboard. I hated the romantic relationship that developed later on (it was forced and the actors had zero chemistry), but the sad irony is that the show was pretty lackluster for its first three years and then in its forth, when it finally started getting good, it was canceled. Shame too, I'll always remember ENT as the show that could have been, but wasn't because B&B didn't have the vision to make it fly.

I'll say this, IMO, the final episode of the series (These Are The Voyages) was it's worst and a pathetic way for ST to end it's 18 year run (combining TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT).

[marshal99]

The first 2 season , imo were poor. It started to pick up slightly only during season 3. Season 4 was good with the ongoing storyline.

What i hated was the extremely irritating characters of Enterprise during the first season , Captain Archer and his irritating 2nd mate , Trip all acted like kids being left alone in a candy store , they want to probe , want to poke their nose in everything irregardless of consequences. If they were being told not to do , they do it. I wish someone could have killed their security officer and the 2nd in command during that first season.

Too many time travel paradox plotlines though. I think it had more time travel plotlines than the entire TNG and Voyages combined.

[Headhunter]

Most of it was pretty bad. The cast had potential, but Berman and Braga ran the show into the ground: boring and sometimes incoherent tales, uninteresting guest/recurring characters, and a complete disinterest in developing the crew members as "human" beings rather than plot devices.

Sounds an awful lot like Voyager, doesn't it?

[Steve Brady]

For me, and I'll try not to get into a diatribe here, it's that any sense of exploration and excitement is robbed when you realize that the crew is often involved in domestic disputes and that the aliens are all remarkably similar. There's no sense of cosmic wonder and feeling very insignificant, and at the same time no sense of actually going where no man has gone before. It's totally cool that we see the origins of Fed/Klingon relations and how Vulcans helped shape Earth into what it is in TNG. But much of the familiar species and situations on the show are treated exactly like that: familiar. It's as if the writers looked back at the previous 4 series, then came back writing the aliens the same way, but without the introduction.

Which is probably why I enjoyed Season 3 the most, because they explored a part of space we'd never seen before.

[Cyke]

Which is probably why I enjoyed Season 3 the most, because they explored a part of space we'd never seen before.

The bit about the energy clouds that turn you inside out was *really* intriguing, especially when the crew finds out early in the season that another crew suffered exactly that, and that the cloud would be used as a defense against Enterprise in the last two episodes of the season. My only problems with this, though, were that:

1. this threat was treated as something major, and rightfully so, but we only saw it twice that season. Many other sci-fi shows would have something equally as major and terrifying, but on a weekly basis (including TNG!)
2. in the end, Doctor Phlox makes a quick antidote for the convenient season finale.

I suppose that sums up my attitudes about Enterprise overall: good ideas with boring execution.

[Ontir]

Enterprise, after building my expectations, let me down intensely in many ways:

First off, they compounded the problem of Klingons having Birds of Prey at all, by putting the ship designed for Star Trek III in the show.

Second, the time-war was really confused, and didn't really go anywhere.

Finally, when Manny Coto came aboard, the show turned into something watchable, but by then, it was too late. The decision to pull the plug was made, prior to the season even airing, and away it went!

[Athena Bast]

The humans were supposed to be more "primative" to use a Vulcan term. The only ones that had any real personality throughout the whole series consistantly were Trip and Phlox. I loved Phlox because he had the Frontier Doctor in him and that reminded me a lot of McCoy :o.

Archer had his moments but it seemed like they couldn't decide on if he was going to be more Kirk or Picard like.

Travis Merriweather had the most experience in space travel and he's rarely doing anything except steering the bloody ship.

They tried too hard to make T'Pol the new 7 of 9. They made costumes to highlight her breasts rather than highlight her character's culture.

Vulcans were way too emotional.

Needing to fill in time so lets get them as nekkid as possible and rub Vicks VapoRub on each other.

One of my favourite eps was "Shuttlepod One". It involves Trip and Malcolm trapped in a slowly non-functioning shuttlecraft. Another fave guest stars Clancy Brown.. because its got Clancy fricking Brown!

A couple of eps that should have been very good were "In a Mirror, Darkly" which sets the "Mirror, Mirror" universe in motion... but all I can think about is Scott Bakula doing his best snake impression and hissing every word whether there was an "s" in it or not.

Highlights - More Jeffrey Coombs! Orion slave girls!

[Athena Bast]

Oh.. neat thing and running gag. They have a cook on board the ship in the galley and he's refered to only as "Chef" and is never seen. Not an arm, not a hat, not a spatula.

The chef character becomes "important" in the series finale but ZOMG I hate the finale. The series really does pick up in the 4th season but the finale for me kinda comes out of nowhere and reminds me kinda how Voyager ended.

I hate the finale because it's just... gah. :mad:

[Ontir]

The treatment of the Vulcans is the one thing I really liked all the way through! It was clear that something big had happened to Vulcan between this show, and Kirk's time, and when we finally got the payoff (which amplified events of TNG), it was well worth it!

[Cyke]

They tried too hard to make T'Pol the new 7 of 9. They made costumes to highlight her breasts rather than highlight her character's culture.


Y'know what I *do* like? That Hoshi, not T'Pol, was the first member of the crew to get some bedroom action. It may have been a one-night stand with an alien, but it turned out to be crucial to the plot as well.

Let's hear it for the meek, nerdy girls!

[Athena Bast]

I like how it was "fixed" and done but there was still too many Vulcans getting angry and behaving un-vulcan-like.

Oh! Another bonus for Enterprise for me... J.G. Hertzler (Martok from DS9) was in an ep. Man he's just so cool.

[Athena Bast]

Y'know what I *do* like? That Hoshi, not T'Pol, was the first member of the crew to get some bedroom action. It may have been a one-night stand with an alien, but it turned out to be crucial to the plot as well.

Let's hear it for the meek, nerdy girls!

I love Hoshi. She had a lot of great moments throughout the series. I think a lot of time they took her for granted.

That came before Malcolm and the trisexua aliens? Hmmmm

[Cyke]

I love Hoshi. She had a lot of great moments throughout the series. I think a lot of time they took her for granted.


The best Hoshi moment (or at least a version of Hoshi) was when she killed Mirror-Archer and took over the Terran Empire, forging the way for Terran dominance that we see in TOS.

Oh, and that Travis, the least-developed main character *ever,* was with Hoshi's plot all along, as well.

[Ontir]

I like how it was "fixed" and done but there was still too many Vulcans getting angry and behaving un-vulcan-like.

Oh! Another bonus for Enterprise for me... J.G. Hertzler (Martok from DS9) was in an ep. Man he's just so cool.

It wasn't "fixed," it was very interestingly explained,as the pesky intervention/misleading of the treacherous Romulans, along with the introduction of T'Pau, which was a fantastic payoff.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I enjoyed season 3 and 4, I thought they were pretty good. And I really liked some of the actors, especially Billingsley and Trinneer. I thought it was a fun show, much better than Voyager, but let's not fool ourselves: Farscape, it is not.

[Athena Bast]

It wasn't "fixed," it was very interestingly explained,as the pesky intervention/misleading of the treacherous Romulans, along with the introduction of T'Pau, which was a fantastic payoff.

Well... the intro of T'Pau and how we know Vulcans versus how we got Vulcans in Enterprise that's what I mean by fixed. By finding the way to align Enterprise Vulcans to TOS Vulcans.

[titanfan]

I love Hoshi. She had a lot of great moments throughout the series. I think a lot of time they took her for granted.

Next to Mayweather, they hardly did anything with her. Hoshi I think had one token episode around her per season--but the rest of the time did nothing. She was the one character who had the potential to show the most growth--and most of it seemed to have been done off-camera.

[Sanagi]

Next to Mayweather, they hardly did anything with her. Hoshi I think had one token episode around her per season--but the rest of the time did nothing. She was the one character who had the potential to show the most growth--and most of it seemed to have been done off-camera.
Agreed, Hoshi was a neglected character. More than any other character on the show, probably. I mean, Travis was wasted, too, but he wasn't that interesting anyway.

[Hush Little Batman]

Agreed, Hoshi was a neglected character. More than any other character on the show, probably. I mean, Travis was wasted, too, but he wasn't that interesting anyway.

Because TPTB never did anything with him. It's hard for any character to become interesting when he's barely given lines.

[sirgod]

Yes, it went downhill into nowhereness for much of it's run. Just watch the next few episodes.

That said, I think it actually got really really good again in the last half of the last season.
I Agree. Thank god for Manny. B&B I think delibretly wanted to kill ST all together.

To me It wasn't the actors, or there rolls, It was B&B all the way. Did I mention I dislike B&B greatly.

Stephen

[Ontir]

I know someone who worked with "Enterprise," not ON it, who said that the actress who played "Hoshi," was wealthy, and didn't need the job, and was somewhat difficult to work with.

[ragnarok_2012]

I Agree. Thank god for Manny. B&B I think delibretly wanted to kill ST all together.

To me It wasn't the actors, or there rolls, It was B&B all the way. Did I mention I dislike B&B greatly.

Stephen

I think B&B honestly feel that the audience doesn't want or get real sci-fi. They just want Flash Gordon costumes and T&A.

It's pretty frustrating.

EDIT: It's pretty frustrating, and I think they underestimate their audience.

[Phil Clark]

I know someone who worked with "Enterprise," not ON it, who said that the actress who played "Hoshi," was wealthy, and didn't need the job, and was somewhat difficult to work with.

That just reinforces my desire for her. :D

[TheRedFear]

I like how it was "fixed" and done but there was still too many Vulcans getting angry and behaving un-vulcan-like.


Which was explained because the Vulcans of this Era did not follow the true ways meant for them. They were trying, but they had completely wrong teachings, a corrupt ruling structure and shunned the telepathic techniques which probably help them with their mental and emotional disciplines.

It was established right in the first season that under the best circumstances T'pol always had trouble with ehr emotional discipline, and getting that funky mental illness that further erodes emotional disicpline didn't help matters for her.

The other Vulcans we saw struck me as no more emotional than any others(less so in some cases. That rival of Sisko's comes to mind.), and if there were glaring emotional extremes it's easily explained by remembering that these Vulcans had a flawed set of teachings that they were basing their culture and beleif system upon.

Yanno it's one thing when people gripe about a show being inconsistant with established canon, but please folks don't gripe about inconsistancies that are actually plot points.

[Athena Bast]

It was hard to see plot points when you falling asleep because the entire cast took a valium before showing up for the taping.

The show was so unnecessarily convoluted at times where you know Archer didn't know his ass from Porthos'.

Sorry for being bored most of the time with the series and not paying attention to every little thing when it seemed like they went back to the TOS school of writing 2 minutes for filming it.

[rick]

What I didn't like about the series is that it never came across with anything very interesting for the characters to do. I mean I grat you at the end of the series they finally noticed that they were in the Star Trek universe and started playing around with it.

But mostly it was just kind of there.

Not really awful, but not really good either.

I mean even Voyager was more interesting and that is really saying something.

[The Batman]

^^^^
wasn't that one of the things that they were trying to do with Enterprise though? distance themselves from the regular Star Trek universe i mean. i always thought that that was the rationale for not having "Star Trek" in thw show's title for so long.

for my purposes the show certainly had some very interesting territory it could cover but for the most part things didn't come together until the last half of the last season when the show got enjoyable. that Mirror, Mirror universe two parter was the best Trek since DS9 ended.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Well, they´ve been airing this show out here and I´m quite enjoying it.
They´ve entered the Delphim Expanse to go after the Xindi who just killed 8 million on earth.

It´s not Battlestar Galactica-good, but it´s not a bad way to kill 40 minutes during lunch..

[Lupek]

I thought it was a lot better than Voyager which was awful. The Temporal War or whatever it was called was the wrong way to go with the show though. I was looking for more exploration of the mythos of the orginal series....like the Andorians. There wasn't enough of that for me. Not enough Hoshi either.

[Michael P]

It wasn't a very good show.

[Treqqor]

The show had promise, and the first 2 seasons showed glimmers of that promise with a few of the episodes shown throughout those first two years.

Season 3 I found really delivered on that promise, showing us how good Voyager could have been with a little thing called "continuity". I think season 3 was the high point, with some of the best episodes of the series occurring here, and some all around great television period.

Season 4 was highly entertaining as well. I didn't find it to be quite as engaging as season 3 was with their season long arc, but it went in another lighter direction that fully embraced what it meant to be part of the Star Trek universe.

(Le'ts not forget the great Next Generation and Deep Space 9 even needed a few years to find their footing)

[berk]

I thought the premise of a pre-Kirk era series was a pretty good idea, as Star Trek shows go, but the execution was so unbearably bland and lifeless I couldn't get through the first season. The casting was pretty bad - none of the actors were able to generate the least interest from me in their characters, although it's probably unfair to judge them too harshly since the writing was so very bad. I was really turned off by Bakula's attempt at an already false Reagan/Bush-style impersonation of a quiet but strong leader. The only glimmer of potential I saw was the T'Pol character; the actress did a good job there, I thought, in spite of the generally crappy writing she had to work with.

[Typo Lad]

It wasn't a very good show.
That's nicer than I would have put it.

It was craaaaap.

[Shellhead]

I sporadically watched the first season. There was one episode that I enjoyed, and the rest were so-so, then I gave up on Enterprise. Partway through the final season, a commercial for the show caught my attention and I decided to give it another try. And it was good! The rest of that final season was all pretty good, except the finale. In particular, I really enjoyed the Mirror Universe episode where they had the alternate starting credits and theme song.

[LtMarvel]

The series did well, particularly the final season. There were weak parts in which they introduced some not interesting recurring villians. I definitely wished they made more...

[LtMarvel]

I know someone who worked with "Enterprise," not ON it, who said that the actress who played "Hoshi," was wealthy, and didn't need the job, and was somewhat difficult to work with.
Well, duh. Everyone here knows who Linda Park is married to...

[Damiean Dark]

Enterprise did have its moments but its core problem was the terrible main cast Bakula and Dr Phlox where the only ones with an ounce of energy but Bakulas "my pappy told me" act got boring fast and Phlox,while good was hardly a great character just the best of a bad bunch. The rest where like wallpaper the worst in Trek history imo especialy T pau who was hot but unlike Seven of Nine (a character also brought in to sex up the show STV) she wasnt good enough an actress to add weight to the show and Hoshi who had maybe two real appearances throughout the run and strangely who (along with Travis) seemed like a college pupil in manner hardly the Elite on the maiden voyage of the most technical starship on earth .

DS9 (my personal fave trek) is the textbook rule of how a trek should be: great main cast with chemistry and awesome supporting cast to add power too the storylines Quark,Gowron, Martol, Gul Dukat, Garak, the numerous characters portrayed buy jefery combs, i could go on but you get it. DS9 also had the great way it had the normal one shot stories which evolved to involve the main series arc of the Dominian War no trek before or since has done this.

[thespianphryne]

Because of time travel and time police.

[Slappy san]

Well, duh. Everyone here knows who Linda Park is married to...

Apparently not....

me for one.

[Ontir]

I don't know either. I guess I'll have to go to imdb.

OK, I went to imdb, and imdb doesn't know either.

To whom IS she married?

[Michael P]

Wally West, of course.

[Ontir]

Nobody likes a smart-ass! :tongue:

[Toonimator]

Yeah, I went to IMDb too with no luck, then Googled "Linda Park married" and smacked my forehead. Been awhile since I thought of that little 'same name' coincidence, but then it's been awhile since I read Flash comics, too!

[Dr Cthulwho]

I just saw the first episode of Star Trek Enterprise, the new series with Bakula and I have to say I liked it.
Wasn´t blown away by it I definitelly enjoyed it and wouldn´t mind following it regularly, see where it leads.

It shows the federation in its VERY early days, when the first ship sailed out of the solar system at a whooping warp 4.5 (Woo-hoo! :p ) and things like teleportation and universal translators were still somewhat of a dream.

I like it, seeing mankind take its first baby steps out there in the universe...

So I am intrigued, why is it whenever someone mentions this show, a diatribe ensues?

Did it go downhill from here?

Yes, it went downhill. Big time.

I'd like to quote the Agony Booth's (http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek/Enterprise/A_Night_in_Sickbay.aspx) detailed recap of Enterprise's "A Night in Sickbay" as being able to sum up most of what was wrong with Enterprise. Albert, the guy who does the recaps (well, most of them) likes Star Trek but examined some of the worst episodes of each series, and pretty much everything he says about Enterprise is on the money.

Personally I thought there were a couple of good moments in Enterprise, and definitely some potential but overall it was a massive let down and overall an average at best show, especially after the really good Deep Space 9. It did improve a bit as it continued, but over all the weakest out of all the Treks, by far.

[mr.brighteyes]

I had actually forgot about the temporal cold war. that was a great idea that they didn't follow through on.

What ticked me off was having Klingon's with ridges and explaining them away. DS9 had it right Worf "We don't talk about it" Thats all we needed thank you no need to explain why klingons went from not having ridges to having them during the movies and future shows.

Also this was a show set in the past. That means we didn't need the Ferengi, or the Borg thank you very much.

I liked the finale as an episode but not as a finale. LOL on the Linda Park thing though.

[Treqqor]

I enjoyed the Klingon ridge explanation. There's nothing wrong with filling in the gaps for the fans, it was a fun trio of episodes, stemmed directly from Brent Spiner's fantastic return to the Trek verse.

You could tell he was having fun with the role.

As an aside, I don't think the show should necessarily be judged on the worst episodes (admittedly, there were quite a few). But the strongest episodes were really, really good! Shuttlepod One, Similitude (Connor Trinneer is really more gifted than I've seen others give him credit for!) and Twilight, to name a few. They easily stand up to the best that Trek has to offer.

[The Black Guardian]

I thought explaining the Klingon ridges was one of the three best things about Enterprise... and one of the other two was Porthos!

[Ontir]

The story about the Klingons was good because it explained the difference in a very interesting way, while alluding to both Khan and Data, as well as respecting DS9 continuity with Worf's line about the difference being something they don't like to talk about. This story was also in the greatly improved final days of the series, when Manny Coto went to great lengths to un-do the crap he'd inherited.

DC Fontana said, during a panel at the Paley a few years ago, that she wouldn't watch "Enterprise," because it destroyed continuity and was she right! Having the Klingons in the first episode in a Bird of Prey was a huge gaff, and one that eluded the producers entirely. I had high hopes for this show, and they were dashed immediately.

Despite a strong cast, I dropped the show before the end of season 1. A friend told me that a new producer was taking over and, having been on the set, he was making positive changes so I watched again, and was very glad to see someone who respected Roddenberry's universe at the helm.

[Treqqor]

Having the Klingons in the first episode in a Bird of Prey was a huge gaff, and one that eluded the producers entirely.

Why was this so bad? The design of the ship did look like an older version of a Bird of Prey, but I'm not sure why that is necessarily a bad thing. Klingons aren't exactly known for their great strides in technological advancements.

[mr.brighteyes]

the bird of prey didn't look like the ones from the first movie or the original series, they looked like the ones from 3 on through tng and ds9.


My problem with them explaining the ridges was that it didn't need to be explained. It's like in The Dark Knight when the joker kept telling different stories for why he had the scars. No matter what explanation they gave you in the movie you were gonna be pissed because it wasn't the one you wanted so they gave you several and let you choose which one you believed.

same with ds9's explanation for the Klingon ridges. for years fans speculated why the Klingon's were different in the original series than the movies and the rest of the show. In the episode trials and tribblations O'Brien, Bashir and I think Odo all asked Worf what the deal was, each of them offering one of the fans possible suggestions and Worf's response was "we don't talk about it." that was good enough for me.

[Dr Cthulwho]

the bird of prey didn't look like the ones from the first movie or the original series, they looked like the ones from 3 on through tng and ds9..

Of course that was a criticism many had for the show (with some justification) - that the ship designs didin't really look like something built a while before TOS, like they probably should have.

[Cyke]

Of course that was a criticism many had for the show (with some justification) - that the ship designs didin't really look like something built a while before TOS, like they probably should have.

Even then, I like the whole "future steampunk" look of the technology, because it seemed both updated for 21st Century-produced show and primitive compared to the aesthetic of TOS Trek, which is not an easy balancing act for sure: the hull of the ship, the Jeffries tubes, the computer panels, et all. The big issue for me is why the hell the ships were more streamlined than even the latest Enterprise! How did that happen?! That's like a modern day Ferrari as the precursor to a Model-T.

[Mike Smith]

Man, some of you guys are pretty harsh here. The show was not the greatest of the Trek series, but for testing out new grounds (executed to small extent) and serving as a precursor to our other favorites it was not so bad. There were a few glimmering episodes in the series, and there were some that were a bit dull, but nothing that I'd put as terribly bad.

I think some people are complaining because the opening theme song didn't have fanfare music, but the soft rock intro Faith of the Heart. :smile:

For underdeveloped characters, I definitely do agree Merriweather was not used enough. I'm not sure if the actor's style was actually limited or his character was directed to say lines a certain way, but if you watch episodes sometimes it sounds as if he's reading things off a cue card, sarcastically. Maybe he was pouting about not getting enough integral portions of the plot (aside from when they needed nifty piloting).

The Fed/crew/and Earth technology did advance through the series. When Bakula returned to Earth after the first mission, where he left optimistic yet annoyed by a Vulcan who wanted to ground the young Terrans in their space endeavors, the first thing he says --with passion-- is that Earth's ships needed more weapons. Lots more weapons.

First lesson learned from space travel: not everyone is on a friendly mission of scientific exploration.

Things like the Xindi probe wiping out America's east coast, trip trying to deal with the emotion of losing his family (and using that as the plot point to instigate the relationship between Tpol/Trip which was to power the on-board domestic tension), the Time Wars arc itself in general, the Mirror Darkly episodes and even the relationship with the blue aliens (cannot remember their name, but they somewhat annoyingly used the term 'pink skin' to refer to humans) were all very enjoyable, though the excessive foreshadowing and mentioning (explicitly in fact) of Bakula's future greatness to the federation took away a bit from the enjoyment.

Someone mentioned that all aliens on the show looked alike?! The Xindi were among one of the most diverse races to the Trek verse. They had giant sentient creatures who had to construct giant water-based ships to get around space (and IIRC, were eventual allies to Earth). They had insectoids, and hominid types as well. The avians of their race were extinct from war! It was cool, and I wish more would have been done to show their interplanetary conflict, maybe more backstory with the Avians and more than mainly showing them sitting around in a war room.

I think one thing people overlook with Trip/Tpol is that it's also one of the first inter-species relationships, between two characters whose respective planets were not very trusting of each other at that. On a Star Ship where mixing crews was not even the norm, considering Earth only had one ship --its flagship-- at the time. Very interesting territory and a very traditional thing for a show like Star Trek to explore.

Following the first attack on Earth by the Xindi, remember it was very Xenophobic. We had things like Phlox getting harassed in a bar to it not being very safe for aliens on Earth to walk the streets. Heck, one of the final plot arcs with Trip/Tpol involved their baby and the Mars weapon being taken by a group of terrorists (from moon IIRC) all in a plot to coerce aliens to leave Earth.

I think concern got too much to catering to certain demographics, and bickering Trek fans who were upset that this show was not TOS, that the Network, the producers/directors (though I give B&B grief for the heck of it) the writers and as a result the characters sometimes lost the plot. Tons of great and intriguing ideas, with decent to very good execution throughout the series.

One of the most awesome guest stars was Brent Spiner. He was brilliant as Data in TNG and brilliant as the mad doctor in this series, and he brought a certain fun air to the show for his arc. Nice (though somewhat forced) resolution to it as well.

The one disappointing aspect of this show is that it was decided to give it the nix before the last very good season, which was largely elevated by new talent breathing new aspects of life into its core. The choice to cancel Ent. was a regrettable decision. Though the finale was terrible. Riker and Troi (and we have to remember Frakes is actually involved with Trek beyond on-screen acting appearances) were cool cameos, but that's what they should have been. Cameos, not driving the episode.

[Treqqor]

^^^
Very well said, and I for the most part agree with all of it.

The theme song was VERY off putting (though sadly I started to grow fond of it), and I think too many people were off-put by the aesthetics of the show and how it didn't quite line up with the a pre "future of the 60's" look. And I'm not sure it could have.

I'm still not understanding the whole Klingon Bird of Prey thing. On the show, they seemed to be a more archaic design compared to the newer versions. Still a similar design (much like the saucer/nacelle combo most Starfleet ships share).

I guess I just don't get it. Change the Starfleet look too much (Oh no, we didn't make it look worse than our current technology!) and people complain, don't change it enough (Oh no, those uncreative Klingons use the same basic design for their ship!) and people complain. No wonder the show was cancelled.

Old:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/2/2b/D5_class_battlecruiser.jpg/292px-D5_class_battlecruiser.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/9/9d/Klingon_b-o-p%2C_Borderland_2.jpg/292px-Klingon_b-o-p%2C_Borderland_2.jpg

And new:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/60/Klingon_Bird-of-Prey.jpg/292px-Klingon_Bird-of-Prey.jpg

[ChrisIII]

I think the Klingon ship in the first episode was a variation on the D7/K'tinga design, the grey ships with the long necks that were in season 3 of TOS and also in a lot of the later movies and TV series.

Apparentally they were going to design a new Klingon ship, but budget got in the way or something like that.

On the subject of the Bird of Prey, it seemed like the SFX crew didn't care too much about the scale of the ship. In TNG you had massive Birds of Prey ("The Defector"), and then in DS9 you had ones barely the size of a fighter (From the various fleet battle scenes). Trek fans and tech manual writers have tried to justify the SFX screw ups by explaining there are multiple models.





I think the new film might be repeating a lot of Enterprise's mistakes, at least from a design and continuity prospective.

[mr.brighteyes]

I think the Klingon ship in the first episode was a variation on the D7/K'tinga design, the grey ships with the long necks that were in season 3 of TOS and also in a lot of the later movies and TV series.

Apparentally they were going to design a new Klingon ship, but budget got in the way or something like that.

On the subject of the Bird of Prey, it seemed like the SFX crew didn't care too much about the scale of the ship. In TNG you had massive Birds of Prey ("The Defector"), and then in DS9 you had ones barely the size of a fighter (From the various fleet battle scenes). Trek fans and tech manual writers have tried to justify the SFX screw ups by explaining there are multiple models.





I think the new film might be repeating a lot of Enterprise's mistakes, at least from a design and continuity prospective.


Why do you say that. Have you seen the new movie, do you know the plot. JJ has an interview on aint it cool that says the movie will explain it all.

[Ontir]

Why was this so bad? The design of the ship did look like an older version of a Bird of Prey, but I'm not sure why that is necessarily a bad thing. Klingons aren't exactly known for their great strides in technological advancements.

Because until the changes made due to the script for "III" having been stolen, Romulans, not Klingons, flew Birds of Prey.

Edward James Olmos was originally cast as the Romulan Commander in "III," but Bennet got to a "Trek" convention and found the actual "III" script for sale. He wanted to change it entirely, but the SFX shots of the Bird of Prey had already been shot and Paramount didn't want to eat them. He was told he could make what changes he wanted, provided he used the shot footage. There is a hint in the story of the Klingons having stolen the ship from the Romulans, it was originally to be more clear, but a line was cut. That was when the Klingons got the new Bird of Prey. Later writers/producers who had little knowledge of the show's history just used them as if they'd always been Klingon ships, particularly in Enterprise.

[Treqqor]

Because until the changes made due to the script for "III" having been stolen, Romulans, not Klingons, flew Birds of Prey.

Do you condemn all later series for following up on this as well?

Behind the scenes non-canon facts seems to be a VERY nitpicky reason to dislike things.

If it ain't on screen, it didn't happen. That shouldn't hamper the enjoyment of future series and movies. Seems like a lot of wasted effort.

[Ontir]

Well on-screen, we have the Romulan/Klingon alliance, through which the Romulans began using Klingon ship designs in the Enterprise Incident of the original series. It had also been suggested that the Bird of Prey shown in "III" was a joint venture of the alliance, using Romulan and Klingon tech, which would be fine and make a lot of sense, but there is now way a Klingon would be flying a Bird of Prey 80 years before Kirk & Spock.

[DeadXMan]

the continuity issues are many

I blame the producers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1chtJQFQNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55NwNrkzz4s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42Q-pFlzung
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy_-TklmyYE

[Ottmeister X]

While not a great series, I rank it higher than DS9 and Voyager. I enjoyed it while it was on and I'm in the opinion that Star Trek should be continuously on TV year after year. Good or bad, I miss having something Star Trek on TV to watch each season.

Enterprise did get a little out-of-whack with their Xindi hunt, but it seems to me they tightened up the series towards the end of the run.

Don't blame Enterprise for its misgivings, blame Janeway and Voyager for the downfall of televised Star Trek.

[Ontir]

I think "DS9" is the best of the sequel series. It's coherent and largely consistent, if not as adventurous, in terms of story, as it set out to be. It had more believable and workable conflicts than were possible, due to "Roddenberry's Edict," in "TNG" or "Voyager."

[Typo Lad]

I think "DS9" is the best of the sequel series. It's coherent and largely consistent, if not as adventurous, in terms of story, as it set out to be. It had more believable and workable conflicts than were possible, due to "Roddenberry's Edict," in "TNG" or "Voyager."


The third season and on, certainly.

If one ignores the glaring plot hole.

"Stay out of Dominion space."
"No. We're going to keep invading your sovereign space."
"Then we will go to war!"
"You're EVIL!"

[ChrisIII]

I'm not sure if the Klingon/Federation alliance is canon or not (Granted, it's been a while since I've seen Enterprise inciddent). I think they say the ships are of Klingon design, but not much about an alliance. However most Trek apocrypha took the alliance concept as gospel I think...

[Ontir]

It was the Romulan/Klingon Alliance, not the Klingon/Federation Alliance, and it is canon as it was the basis of the whole House of Duras/Worf rivalry in "TNG."

[Mike Smith]

It was the Romulan/Klingon Alliance, not the Klingon/Federation Alliance, and it is canon as it was the basis of the whole House of Duras/Worf rivalry in "TNG."

I thought the Klingon/Federation alliance was established during the Khitomer outpost massacre or something like that (a generation or two before TNG)? Was it the Romulans who attacked the Klingons, and an outmatched Federation vessel (which had to be resent back in time in an episode of TNG) that went to defend the outpost was destroyed in the process? The Klingons saw the Federation as admirable for trying to defend the outpost against insurmountable odds and joined up with the alliance.

I didn't think the Romulans joined the Federation/Klingon alliance until DS9 days. Then again, my Trek storyline history is rusty. :redface:

[Mormel]

I agree with Cyke that there was little sense of adventure in this 'Enterprise' series. I personally thought that the ship's design and technology made the whole show seem sterile and cold somehow. I liked the idea of seeing how Starfleet and the Federation came about, and discovering things like force fields etc for the first time, but they didn't feel like a group of explorers to me.

And I thought Archer and Tucker's attitude toward the aliens they met was often not very open-minded, which I'm not sure could be forgiven simply because humankind hadn't had that many dealings with alien species yet. And like Athena Bast, I thought the Vulcans were too emotional, and they were obviously trying to make the show 'sexier' by having some scenes like the rubbing scene Athena mentioned etc., which was unnecessary, because even pre-Enterprise, Trek could be sexy if it wanted to.

Mike Smith mentioned it, having the Andorians call humans 'pink skins' was a major mistake they shouldn't have left in, especially considering that I seem to recall the Andorians calling them that while they had the bridge crew on the viewscreen, with Travis Mayweather in front at the helm.

DS9 (my personal fave trek) is the textbook rule of how a trek should be: great main cast with chemistry and awesome supporting cast to add power too the storylines Quark,Gowron, Martol, Gul Dukat, Garak, the numerous characters portrayed buy jefery combs, i could go on but you get it. DS9 also had the great way it had the normal one shot stories which evolved to involve the main series arc of the Dominian War no trek before or since has done this.But DS9 was also the series that strayed a bit further from the Star Trek formula. It had a flavour of its own, it was a spin-off in the true sense of the word. I love DS9, but my friend in school hated it.

[Damiean Dark]

DS9 was created after Rodenberry died so didnt have to fall in line with the completely romantic future for mankind he vigourously defended to be included in the universe they where still enlightened in comparison to most races but there could be bad humans who would play as dirty as the cardassians to get what they want for eg Micheal Eddington.

I also like how they delved far more into the various races in DS9 ferengis actually had more the one dimension to them (remember the awful appearances in TNG?) there where truly honorable Klingons such as Martok and Kurn and not all Cardassians where blood thirsty killers as seen in one of my fave DS9 episodes "Duet".

Without DS9 many dictionaries and fansites would be pretty empty it filled out the universe from slightly one dimensional to much more complex and varied in seven short but glorious seasons:biggrin: .

[Treqqor]

It was the Romulan/Klingon Alliance, not the Klingon/Federation Alliance, and it is canon as it was the basis of the whole House of Duras/Worf rivalry in "TNG."

I thought rivalry was because Jarod betrayed the khitomer outpost to the Romulans, their blood enemy. Which would also explain the incident at Narendra III a few years prior, in which the Enterprise C came to aid the Klingons in another attack by the Romulans.

That's an odd alliance, if you ask me. (It was obviously just meant to explain the sharing of the ships in TOS, and could also be used to explain, if one wants to, the design of the Bird of Prey in Enterprise.)

[Ontir]

I thought the Klingon/Federation alliance was established during the Khitomer outpost massacre or something like that (a generation or two before TNG)? Was it the Romulans who attacked the Klingons, and an outmatched Federation vessel (which had to be resent back in time in an episode of TNG) that went to defend the outpost was destroyed in the process? The Klingons saw the Federation as admirable for trying to defend the outpost against insurmountable odds and joined up with the alliance.

I didn't think the Romulans joined the Federation/Klingon alliance until DS9 days. Then again, my Trek storyline history is rusty. :redface:

No, you're missing the point. It was a ROMULAN/KLINGON Alliance, no Federation at all. The Federation was the enemy of both at the time. During this alliance, the Klingons gave the Romulans improved ship design and the Romulans gave the Klingons cloaking technology. The alliance was short-lived because neither side could trust the other.

Khitomer was a Romulan attack on Klingon space in which the Enterprise C stepped in. It was ultimately destroyed in so doing, but the sacrifice by the Federation for the Klingons went a long way to improving what had been icy relations at best.

The House of Duras was responsible for leaving Khitomer open to Romulan attack and they sought to frame Worf's family for what their father had done. It was thought a safe move as Worf lived outside the Empire and the slight to his essentially extinct clan wouldn't cause a problem, but it didn't work out that way. Duras was lost and then his sisters died during the destruction of the (ugliest ship to bear the name) Enterprise D.

[Treqqor]

Khitomer was a Romulan attack on Klingon space in which the Enterprise C stepped in. It was ultimately destroyed in so doing, but the sacrifice by the Federation for the Klingons went a long way to improving what had been icy relations at best.

That was the battle at Narendra III, with the Enterprise C. That happened 2 years before the Khitomer massacre, in which it was the Intrepid (Sergey Rozhenko's ship) that stepped in to help.

The Romulan/Klingon alliance was dead before Khitomer.

And the Federation/Klingon was well on its way.

[fmvgamer]

Enterprise was a bit dull at the beginning and the characters are quite annoying. They got slighter better towards with season 3 onwards but by which time , the damage had been done - too many fans had been turned away hence the low ratings. The series also over relied on time travelling plots for its story with the temporal cold war/the xindi storyline etc. Time travel stories can be lots of fun if used sparingly.
All trek series have used time travel stories , voyager even used it as a plot device to get home but enterprise used it as a recurring storyline.

Voyager gets a lot of criticism from fans over the years , but i liked it. I thought it got better with each season like enterprise. Like all ST series , it had its ups and downs though i suppose Janeaway is a bit unlikeable , too rigid and stiff for her own good and lacked charisma.

[Ontir]

That was the battle at Narendra III, with the Enterprise C. That happened 2 years before the Khitomer massacre, in which it was the Intrepid (Sergey Rozhenko's ship) that stepped in to help.

The Romulan/Klingon alliance was dead before Khitomer.

And the Federation/Klingon was well on its way.

You're right about Nerendra III, and yes, the Romulan/Klingon Alliance was dead, which is why the House of Duras was in such trouble. They were still working with the Romulans, and that could not come out, hence skapegoating Worf's family for Khitomer.

[Scavenger]

Enterprise had Porthos, so that makes up for lots of badness!

[Crowforge]

ENT was horrible and as pointless as the Star Wars prequels (minus the spectacle) since you know what's going to happen. And it was written like a body spray commercial.

[Kaos]

Time Travel ruined this.

[Alex]

This was the only star trek show i have been able to watch since i was six.
My wife actually enjoyed it, and she hates Star Trek.
I really have no idea why i liked it though.
Possibly because i wanted to bang the vulcan.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

This was the only star trek show i have been able to watch since i was six.
My wife actually enjoyed it, and she hates Star Trek.
I really have no idea why i liked it though.
Possibly because i wanted to bang the vulcan.

Did your wife know you wanted to bang the vulcan? :wink: