PRIDE of BAGDAD [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

matt levin

09-13-2006, 03:30 PM

Hi,

I haven't even read this yet, but serendipitously, minutes after walking out of the comic shop with it in hand, there on the car radio, National Public Radio is doing a very sympathetic interview with Brian K. Vaughn, PoB's writer. Neil Conan, NPR interviewer was clearly interested in the book, and in Vaughn's other comics, Ex Machina and Y: the Last Man.

Anyway, just wanted to open this up, create a venue for comment, (to which I'll contribute in a day or two, myself, once I've read the thing!).

Hopefully, the interview with Vaughn will be posted at the NPR website in a day or so.

Happy reading,
Matt

xakko

09-13-2006, 07:37 PM

Johhny Blame

09-13-2006, 10:31 PM

I loved it! So excellent!

Mike Smash!

09-13-2006, 10:42 PM

the interview is available:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6068585

Neal Conan often tries to bring comics to NPR audiences.

That was a great interview. Thank you for sharing it!

Schmakt

09-14-2006, 09:41 AM

it was sold out at my LCS... very cool. :)

hopefully I'll get mine tomorrow...

Ryan Day

09-14-2006, 10:15 AM

I got my copy yesterday, and it's very good. Not a masterpiece, but a very, very good book. And as much as I like Vaughan, the real star is Nico Henrichon, who does some incredibly gorgeous work. He doesnt' attempt Disney-esque anthromorphism, but he still manages to give each of the lions personality and emotion. And some of the scenery is just incredible. This guy is fantastic, and should be a star in no time.

The story kind of pales in comparison, though it's certainly not bad by any stretch. Vaughan hammers the political allegory a bit too hard at times, and the ending seems kind of rushed.

But still, a very enjoyable book, and you've got to respect Vaughan for pretty much abandoning the safe ground of superheroes to do work like this.

annihilator

09-14-2006, 02:38 PM

do any of you know if this will be release in paperback form? The 20$ is kinda expensive for me.:(

Ryan Day

09-14-2006, 02:53 PM

It'll probably come out in paperback eventually, though it might take a year or more.

But really, it's not that expensive: 136 pages for 19.99. That's more than six 22-page issues for only a dollar or two more, which isn't much when you consider the high production quality of the book.

I don't buy a lot of hardcovers, but I thought it was definitely worth it.

stealthwise

09-14-2006, 04:55 PM

Just order it online, I'm sure that Amazon or Borders has it available at a discounted rate.

The Xenos

09-15-2006, 11:52 PM

I picked it up. Not big on hardcovers, but this seemed nice. Doesn't hurt that I'm a Vaughn-o-phile.

Still not sure what to make of the story. It was good. Not sure what it meant. It wasn't quite against the war. It was like just in another world looking in at it. A fascinating view.

The lions didn't seem too humanized. That too was interesting. It had a nice balance. Couldn't help but think of Lion King a bit as a friend watched it not that long ago when I was at his place. Of course, this had humans in it. Also, you don't see too many tales like this with animals communicating, yet remaining rather real and animalistic.

Definately glad I grabbed it anyway.

The Adventurer

09-16-2006, 12:38 PM

[QUOTE=Ryan Day
The story kind of pales in comparison, though it's certainly not bad by any stretch. Vaughan hammers the political allegory a bit too hard at times, and the ending seems kind of rushed. [/QUOTE]

I don't think the ending was so much "rushed" as it was sudden. Which I think was necessary to convey the emotional impact at the end. As I just finished it last night, I have to say the whole book was excellent. And ending haunted me for most of the time I was trying to a fall asleep. This book was definitely worth the wait (I remember reading about it over a year ago)

stealthwise

09-16-2006, 07:01 PM

I got it the other day and I liked it. I noticed that there were still 'cliffhanger' moments every 22 pages or so though, which amused me. This book could easily have been a mini-series first, but I'm glad to get it in ogn format.

I read it on and off though, as my baby girl kept waking up and demanding attention, so by the time I got to the last five pages, the ending fell a bit flat for me. Upon further reflection, it's a pretty good book, with stunning art.

innocentboy

09-16-2006, 08:27 PM

been looking forward to it for a long long time still. looks dope from the previews i've seen on it, and BKV can delivery as we all already know.

still haven't got it yet though :(

Bazooka Tooth

09-17-2006, 06:44 AM

Yeah the preview pretty much got me all wizzy-wazzy, i'm gonna go get this soon when it hits the stores here.

Anyone from SG's seenit here yet?

Schmakt

09-18-2006, 12:11 PM

I picked up my copy on Friday... and I definitely liked it.

SPOILERS

The bit with the lioness getting gang banged in the jungle was crazy. I liked the back-and-forth about whether or not is was better in the zoo or in the wild. For a while, tho, I wasn't sure why it was mature readers as the art seemed quite friendly to younger eyes, and the story wasn't that bad... especially as it focused on the lion cub. Then they blew off the girafe head. All of the animal characterizations were really good.

And I did get sucked into the story... I suppose I'm a sucker for animals in pain, but it definitely made me sad to see that one lion all tied up and beaten. What was that all about anyway? Anyone know? Why was that bear there anyway? He was huge... I always kind of assumed that a lion could take a bear in a fair fight... but whatever.

The ending totally sucked. I guess I knew that's what was going to happen, but it still sucked. And I was pretty shocked when the first lion got shot. I liked the way it was handled. Just one bullet and quiet on the page. I don't even think there was a sound effect for the bullet... the poor lion just dropped dead. Very well handled.

Very said that our guys over there actually killed the animals. I dearly hope that it really was in self-defense or, at the very least, an attempt to put the lions out of their misery as it were. Unfortunately, from the stories that keep coming back, I find it easier to imagine a bunch of young guys with high powered riffles in the desert blasting away at lions for fun. I dearly hope I'm wrong about that...

Aaron King

09-19-2006, 11:57 AM

I gathered that the lion and the bear were Saddam's. Weren't they in his palace? And about bear v. lion... that was a huge bear. And the lions were starving, right? While the bear had been eating in a palace, taking the dead lion's food. I dunno. Maybe this belongs on the Rumbles Board.

tk421atpost

09-19-2006, 03:56 PM

The book was excellent. I loved the art and the ending even managed to bring a tear to my old embittered eyes. It was clear what direction the story was heading in before we got to the finale but it didn't lessen the impact of how it played out at all. Kudos to everyone involved with it.

redoogie

09-23-2006, 01:34 PM

Im going to be picking this one up this week, I hope its as good as I imagine it to be.

Adem

09-28-2006, 01:45 PM

Finally got my hands on a copy and I liked it a lot. Vaughan was hyping it up a little too much though. I too felt the ending felt a little rushed, but I guess its hard to work with a story based on actual events. The art really made the book for me I wish Henrichon would do more work.

colossus34

09-28-2006, 02:14 PM

An instant classic LOVED IT!

Subotai

10-01-2006, 08:23 PM

I don't think the ending was so much "rushed" as it was sudden. Which I think was necessary to convey the emotional impact at the end.

I agree. It wasn't that they were tying up many plot points - it was just the way it had to go down.

the film freak

10-07-2006, 03:45 AM

I enjoyed it. Bear vs. Lion. Can't go wrong.

DonC

10-07-2006, 12:41 PM

I saw 5 copies of this at a bookstore I go to on Monday. On Thursday they had 1 copy left after I bought one. I'll post what I thought about it after I finish reading it.

Will.S

10-07-2006, 07:44 PM

The ending totally sucked. I guess I knew that's what was going to happen, but it still sucked. And I was pretty shocked when the first lion got shot. I liked the way it was handled. Just one bullet and quiet on the page. I don't even think there was a sound effect for the bullet... the poor lion just dropped dead. Very well handled.

Very said that our guys over there actually killed the animals. I dearly hope that it really was in self-defense or, at the very least, an attempt to put the lions out of their misery as it were. Unfortunately, from the stories that keep coming back, I find it easier to imagine a bunch of young guys with high powered riffles in the desert blasting away at lions for fun. I dearly hope I'm wrong about that...
I had the exact same reaction to that scene, it really made me sad to see those animals go and it left me wondering if it really went down that way or if the soldiers were really threatened by the animals but killing the cub too just seemed way too excessive.

Absolutely loved the book by the way. I was kind of hesitant to pick it up since I usually don't go beyond the superhero stuff but the word of mouth for the book has been very good and in very high amounts. Brian knocked it out of the part with this one and it actually made me almost forget about all the books I had purchased this week since it was such a strong book.

I agree in some ways that it ended almost too shortly but the book doesn't suffer because of it because the structure is still amazingly well done from point A to point B. Niko's art was just breathtakingly good. From the exotic look of the locales to the realistic yet cartoony look of the animals, just amazing stuff so I'm hoping to see his art elsewhere or with another future collaboration with Brian.

sgt pepper

10-10-2006, 10:23 PM

I'm fine with talking animals and anthropomorphizing them to some degree for the sake of story or allegory, but too many liberties seem to be taken with the wildlife in this book:

Are there really sea turtles in the fresh water of the Tigris River?

Do male lions really travel together in a group?

Monkeys using tools? That's incredibly rare. Monkeys using tools as weapons? Never. And they're referred to (by a lion, to be fair) as chimps.

Is it really possible that a bear could be that large (maybe Iraq did have nukes and this is a giant mutant?)?

Agentum

10-11-2006, 06:21 AM

Well the males from the same group can travel togheter when young and rejected from the old group (remember there is one alpha male only in the group), so until they can find and kill or scare of a alphamale somewhere else or steal his females they roam around.

If they take ofver a group it will lead to problems being more than one alpha-male, but untill that they are brothers.

Ryan K

10-25-2006, 07:06 AM

I read this last night and thought it was decent. Nothing spectacular jumped out at me, but it was a solid story with solid art. The idea that the lions were starving because they were noble, or kept their word, or wouldn't eat a fallen warrior was just a bit too corny for me. I know that's not really a big deal, but it bothered me.

The whole thing just felt like a Disney movie, with some good metaphors, that at the last second becomes very violent almost for shock value. Seemed a bit heavy handed to me.

It was solid, but I wouldn't read it again.

stealthwise

10-25-2006, 05:40 PM

Apparently this ogn sold over 10,000 copies on the direct market alone, in hardcover. Awesome.

smoothjokes

10-26-2006, 04:00 AM

I bought it yesterday with my other books and I was impressed with the book. It did have that Disney feel to me but it was still a strong story with nice undertones through out the book. Solid read, worth the $20.00 in my opinion and I'm going to pass it along to my Mom when I have dinner with her on Friday so she can check it out. It's a good book to give someone who isn't interested in the comic book/graphic novel medium.

stealthwise

10-26-2006, 10:25 AM

ultramandingo

10-27-2006, 07:29 PM

The whole thing just felt like a Disney movie, with some good metaphors, that at the last second becomes very violent almost for shock value. Seemed a bit heavy handed to me. .

it'll make a great disney cartoon! giraffes gettin their heads blown off , lions gettin raped , gangster monkeys and instead of some hunter killin bambie's mom, its some freaked out 18 year old and my tax dollars. just throw in some catchy songs, celebrity voice overs ( i see sam l jackson , uma therman and judy dench (sp?) and happy meals

Bazooka Tooth

10-30-2006, 09:01 PM

dammit. the ending sucked. =/

I thought the start and middle parts were awesome...but holy crap...how it all end just suck donkey donks. Although it was a little weird and funny at the same time seeing how the lioness was all horny and shit. Safa getting gang raped. I think that's a tad too much of HUMAN-like characteristics(for a lack of better word) attached to the animals. It feeels fake when reading it. The characters had depth yes, but geez...i really hated the ending. Zill die-ing after getting the chance to see the horizon once again was alright...but having them all killed within seconds after that.... =/ argh the frustration!!!

ultramandingo

10-31-2006, 06:02 PM

dammit. the ending sucked. =/

I thought the start and middle parts were awesome...but holy crap...how it all end just suck donkey donks. !

dont blame bkv.....

"The fighting caused an immediate quandary: an explosive — the Americans say it was an Iraqi mortar — blasted a hole in the fence of a large outdoor enclosure for the lions. Corporal St. Pierre said that looters made the hole bigger and that several lions escaped. With so many looters around, he said, the soldiers had to make a difficult decision. "It was either keep the civilians out, which was impossible, or kill the lions," he said. "So we killed the lions."

http://www.wildaid.org/index.asp?CID=8&PID=331&SUBID=&TERID=15

i woulda let the lions eat the looters...

Bazooka Tooth

10-31-2006, 08:37 PM

i suppose since it's based on a true story, tweaking the conclusion would prolly affect the whole 'realness' offit.

oh well, it's still a nice book anyway. he's got alottta good stuffs out..so yeah..

stealthwise

11-02-2006, 10:00 AM

The stark suddenness of the ending isn't just there to reflect real life, it's also intended to provide a shocking conclusion to the novel and provoke a reaction. Everyone's reaction will differ slightly, but it's important to remember that while the story is based on "true events," there's a level of allegory (well, several of them actually) that you can read from and take what you will.

I remember being a bit startled by the end, and almost confused. It takes multiple readings and some thought to decide what you're going to get out of this graphic novel, and that's what I dig about it. I'd be more specific regarding my own insights, but I think it's important that everyone come up with their own ideas regarding this particular gn.

And btw, lions (and many felines) perform the sexual act in a way that appears a lot like rape.

MarkSullivan

11-03-2006, 10:32 AM

The stark suddenness of the ending isn't just there to reflect real life, it's also intended to provide a shocking conclusion to the novel and provoke a reaction. Everyone's reaction will differ slightly, but it's important to remember that while the story is based on "true events," there's a level of allegory (well, several of them actually) that you can read from and take what you will.

I remember being a bit startled by the end, and almost confused...
I agree, and had about the same reaction. I think the ending is intended to be abrupt and shocking, both to reflect the reality, and as a deliberate story telling technique. It worked for me, but took me by surprise for a minute.

Bazooka Tooth

11-04-2006, 10:53 AM

reading from all your responses, i gave this book a second read. this time bearing in mind all the points that have been stated.

i already knew the ending yes, but yeah the effect that i had from it differs to a large extent. the impact of their deaths had more ermm..meaning and depth. Especially when i got to the american soldiers part. It's kinda like..when you see the abrupt deaths of the lions, that was just the first part of the whole scene, what topped the cake was the soldier bit. Maybe my reaction the first time round was because i was so fully attached to the animals. I missed out the fact that it happened during the time when the US Army was there to hunt down Saddam.

stealthwise

11-04-2006, 11:24 AM

It's interesting as well, because the story is not set in a direct "USA is better/worse than Iraq" dichotomy, but rather has several complex ways to read it, all of which are far from simplistic moral judgments (as The Ultimates or Civil War, to name two examples, appear to be).

matt levin

11-05-2006, 08:46 AM

And, to add to all of that,
the final (or next to final?) page, reminding us that
'there were other casualties that day.'

I don't think Vaughn's referring to the giraffes, do you?

Matt

Atomic Moth

11-15-2006, 12:29 AM

I don't think Vaughn's referring to the giraffes, do you?

I'm pretty sure not

Agentum

11-15-2006, 02:36 AM

I would have let the Lions eat the looters too.

Predator

01-02-2007, 03:00 PM

Just read this yesterday and it was a spectacular book! Great story, fantastic art, and an ending that just broke my heart; all the things that make a good book. Worthy of all the praise that it's gotten.

jmc247

01-02-2007, 03:11 PM

If the writer wanted to have a more realisitic allegory of the Iraqi situation they would have Lions killing each other for no goddamn good reason and then an American comes by and lets the Lions out and the Lions maul him and then a group of hyenas come by from out of town and the Lions and hyenas spend the rest of the comic killing each other.

Ronald Bryan

01-02-2007, 07:42 PM

I never bothered posting, so let me say: I loved, loved, loved this book. The story was fantastic and the animals were all very well developed. The ending was sad, though, but it was what it was.

Omega Alpha

01-02-2007, 09:54 PM

This is one of the best comics ever made, i think. Amazing work, with so many layers of interpretation and the art is fantastic. One of BKV's finest.

General Grievous

01-03-2007, 05:06 AM

i want this book, it's that simple

twilight

01-03-2007, 05:12 AM

T'was good.

Art was breathtaking.

I don't think I really get what BKV's trying to say besides "War is bad" but I'm never any good at reading into things.

That bear was scary.
And quite theatrical.

7/10

Mr. Palmer

01-03-2007, 03:12 PM

A few months ago, I finished this book. Absolutely amazing.

Since I'm a sucker for downbeat endings, this one really packed a punch. Even after the weeks since I've finished it, I can think back on it and still get a sad pain in my heart.

Highly recommended.

niall mc cann

01-03-2007, 04:57 PM

i read it a while back, so my memory's a bit fuzzy, but at the time i thought it was excellent.

Insightful but not judgemental, with sympathetic characters and willingness to bypass easy dismissal (like JMC described) for an actual attempt at understanding.

I remember it ending quickly, too, and maybe some of the themes and story ideas were left hanging, but that seems like a more honest way to end it than to tie it up in easy allegory. It's a trade-off, i suppose, but i felt it was worth it. I liked it a lot.

Great idea underneath it all, too.

Apathy Boy

01-03-2007, 10:50 PM

It was pretty good. One of the best art jobs of the year, and the story was entertaining. All the "freedom has to be earned, not given" stuff was not as subtle as Vaughn seemed to think it was, though. And the ending was abrupt, but I'm used to horribly anti-climactic resolutions from Vaughn, so I'm just glad this story actually had an ending.

But where Vaughn exceeds, as always, is in the characterization. The characters were so distinct and cute that the story remained memorable and affecting despite its flaws.