Civil War #4 Preview *spoilers*

[20yrslater]

I just got chills...

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/04Pre/CivilWar04Pre.html

"you pampered punk"

LOVE IT!

I love how of of context that Thor line at the end is, it could easily be construed either pro or anti, or "you woke me up, without coffe or mead, and your're gonna pay!"

[Atom_basher]

well with emphasis on the word, *are* i think he is responding to what falcon said directly, so as of those panels, he is pro

I do love the feeling of desperation and turmoil on the anti people face, like, holy crap we gotta bounce

[Clint Barton]

I *hope* Cap doesn't have a "big hole in his chest". No, Marvel, NO!!!

Great art, btw.

[drwho]

Just have one thing to say and that is no way in hell is that the real Thor. Dont have a problem with him being proreg just that from those pages he looks psychotic. The real Thor wouldn't come off like a psycho lunatic. Bet its some new super lmd robot.

[Cayman]

Yipes. I hope all the face time Falcon gets in those panels doesn't mean he's the casualty in this issue. I've been a fan of his since I was just a little kid. :(

[CMBMOOL]

AHHH!!! :eek: The resistance are goners with Thor backing up the Pros!!! :(

[Jmacq1]

That doesn't sound like Thor, actually. Not that he couldn't have a "mortal in control" again, but "You are all going down." Just doesn't quite sound "right" from him...as opposed to "Verily, all of thee shall be laid low!"

[Atom_basher]

That doesn't sound like Thor, actually. Not that he couldn't have a "mortal in control" again, but "You are all going down." Just doesn't quite sound "right" from him...as opposed to "Verily, all of thee shall be laid low!"


well he was basically irectly responding to falcon, so i dont think thats out of charecter per se

[Jmacq1]

Just have one thing to say and that is no way in hell is that the real Thor. Dont have a problem with him being proreg just that from those pages he looks psychotic. The real Thor wouldn't come off like a psycho lunatic. Bet its some new super lmd robot.

Actually, from an "outsiders" view, I bet Thor really -could- look like a psycho lunatic...pretty much whenever he wants. Particularly when he's angry.

But as I already said, he certainly doesn't "sound" like the Thor we all know and love. Not to say it isn't what will be passing for "the genuine article" at Marvel for the forseeable future, but clearly if that's the case there's been some changes we're not yet privy to.

EDIT: Then again, I see Millar is once again forgetting he's writing 616 Cap instead of Ultimate Cap. Give me a freaking break..."Pampered Punk?" Maybe Steve's the impostor. I swear, if Cap gets any less eloquent and more pig-headed than he's already been acting, I may have to switch sides. :mad:

[drwho]

That doesn't sound like Thor, actually. Not that he couldn't have a "mortal in control" again, but "You are all going down." Just doesn't quite sound "right" from him...as opposed to "Verily, all of thee shall be laid low!"

agreed that is not thor.

[Haunt]

Just have one thing to say and that is no way in hell is that the real Thor. Dont have a problem with him being proreg just that from those pages he looks psychotic. The real Thor wouldn't come off like a psycho lunatic. Bet its some new super lmd robot.

you didn't read the Reigning or the beginning of Busiek's Avengers run then, i take it? :)

[Jmacq1]

I must say, though....the more I think about it and the more I see, the more I think that the "Ares is disguised as Thor" theory may be true. And that perhaps the -real- Thor's return will be one of the things that helps equalize the Pro-and-Anti side's power levels.

Given that Ares is on a team filled with staunch Pro-Regger's post Civil-War and Thor is as yet nowhere to be found...there -does- certainly seem to be evidence to back it up. Particularly since Thor is apparently responsible for the "hero death" that happens in #4. Having him make his big return by sullying his reputation as a hero forevermore just doesn't seem quite right for the God of Thunder...but would be perfect to "make" the reputation for the God of War.

EDIT: And if it -is- really Thor, operating under his own free will, and doesn't have any extreme mitigating circumstances, then I'm -really- going to have to start wondering if both Marvel and DC just like to make certain that nearly all the characters that are among my favorites are on the list to get ruined. :mad:

[Atom_basher]

that could actually be it, BUT falcon has been around thor, ALOT, im fairly sure he could recognize his face and voice, i mean, they are friends right. but if this IS ares, who produced the lightning. and weather

[anthony!]

Perhaps Thor is on neither side, and wants to take down everyone... certainly would give literal meaning to "you are all going down."

[Nomad]

Cap... looked so... jeez... I mean, wow.

Why did they release the mighty avengers preview? If I hadn't read it, from the civil war preview, I would have thought that Iron Man could get murdered by the anti. Cap looks like he's gonna gouge somebody's eyes out. I want cap to steal Thor's hammer and whack him with it. "we were worried sick about you, 'punk' b@stard"
But I agree, cap does sound like Ultimate cap. But then 616 cap keeps his cool more often. I'd assume if he were angry, he'd give a self-righteous speech, and then he'd underline it with a boot to the face.

[Atom_basher]

Perhaps Thor is on neither side, and wants to take down everyone... certainly would give literal meaning to "you are all going down."


another possibiliy that could work

[Jmacq1]

that could actually be it, BUT falcon has been around thor, ALOT, im fairly sure he could recognize his face and voice, i mean, they are friends right. but if this IS ares, who produced the lightning. and weather

I'm sure with all the technical wizardry on the Pro-Reg side, duplicating those effects would not be difficult in the least. Or it's possible that Ares has among his massive trove of weapons something that can do it himself. Replicating Thor's "look" and "sound" is the easy part.

And having "Thor" show up on the Pro-Reg side is a brilliant bit of psychological warfare, particularly against Steve. All you have to do is see the looks on the Anti-Reg sides' faces to see how successful it is.

[Gnarl]

Could it be that Thor is missing a millenia or so of memories? And learned english all over again?

Maybe SHIELD psychics did a partial mindwipe. If so, they should have remembered the old Lovecraft line about dealing with old gods..."Do not call up what you cannot put down"

The Thor of old enjoyed the odd human sacrifice.

[Nomad]

That would be a blast. Thor going ape$hit on everyone for acting like children. Brother fighting brother, like a warring pantheon. Thor has seen this before, and maybe he wants to end it. Hopefully, they will suprise us all. But that preview was mind-blowing. I just hope Thor doesn't smite Falcon. It seems likely, with Sam flying Steve to saftey. They won't just let them go. Don't kill my falcon!

[Kevinroc]

Those preview panels look absolutely incredible. I must admit that my first instinct upon reading Thor's dialogue was that he was gonna smack everybody else down. For the record, I like Millar's Cap.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Am I the only one thinking that they are reacting to Hercules being killed? I mean he was their powerhouse and without them... oi!

[Haunt]

Cap... looked so... jeez... I mean, wow.

Why did they release the mighty avengers preview? If I hadn't read it, from the civil war preview, I would have thought that Iron Man could get murdered by the anti.

what makes you think that Iron Man (in Mighty Avengers) is Tony Stark?

[Nomad]

what makes you think that Iron Man (in Mighty Avengers) is Tony Stark?
hehe, I was thinking the same thing. It could be Pym, or something. Did they ever call him Tony in the preview? He wasn't exactly leading them into battle.

[Shyft]

Wow! If its finished already why cant we have it NOW!!! Curse Marvel. Those panels really do look amazing though. I really love how desperate the anti-crew look. Really gives the feeling of the shit hitting the fan. I LOVE the panel of Cap. And to those saying he isnt eloquent enough, come off it! Obviously they had different sensibilities in the 40's, but he has been around in the present for a while, and are you seriously telling me the Allied soldiers, Cap included, didnt loose their rags when fighting Nazi's?

[Haunt]

hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Did they ever call him Tony? It could be Pym, or something. Did they ever call him Tony in the preview? He wasn't exactly leading them into battle.

yeah, Carol seemed to be calling the shots. and the name 'Tony' was never uttered. of course, Hercules is conspicuous by his absence in the preview. wouldn't he have the biggest reaction?

[Parthuman]

Yeah, Cap getting off the canvas was definitely the money shot. Who knows what ensues between those random panels?

Millar gets Cap, just like Brubaker does in Cap's own title. He's a mean mofo when he has to be. This IS the 616 Cap.

I've got a Thor theory. He's getting the revolutionaries out of there because they are outgunned. It seems he's attacking them, but he's really protecting them for the bigger fight up ahead. He's playing a bit of a double game, but no doubt he will join the underdog idealist side.

Footnote: I read a lot of Millar's comments about his fondness for Cap when he was doing the Ultimate version, and how he had to restrain himself from putting too much emphasis on the character. Millar excels at the big "hero shot" -- when the battle seems lost, one character just rises up and slams. I want to see a totally illogical smackdown of Cap on Enron Man. I mean, I'd take the character forged in battle over an over-powered I-Pod any day.

Looking forward to this. Can't believe Joey Q was on the obscure "Bomb Queen" thread just a few days ago, dissing fans for liking books other than Marvel. He should try and run herd on his staff to keep these books on a regular pace, rather than trolling indie threads and sarcastically asking obscure artists to, and I quote, "sign my boobs." Better watch out, Q-ball., or you'll be a fill-in on Aquaman if you keep dissing the people stuffing money into your pocket.

[Nomad]

I didn't see goliath, either. What the $hit is cap going to do? Where is ZEMO to save all of their asses?

[streator]

thor seems brainwashed to me.

i think captain america will make it through the issue but i can't say the same about falcon.

[Cayman]

Maybe the reborn Thor has no memory of ever being an Avenger.

He doesn't seem to know Falcon.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

i'm almost convinced that Thor is really Ares in disguise.

[Magneto Rocks]

.... OH GOOD GOD

I love Thor, he is awesome and....

And.....

He's gonna kick SO much ass words can't describe it.

I mean, anyone who ever read Thor, or some AVengers, knows how powerful Thor is when he goes all-out. As in, psycho-crazy, could probably take down EVERYONE on both teams if he wanted to awesomely powerful. But when you see the anti-reggers realising just how INCREDIBLY SCREWED they are, it's all hammered home.

Something is wrong though. You can tell- hell, Dagger even SAID it. SOmething's up. I mean.... even the way falcon explains who he is....

My best guess? Thor has been 'dead' for a year. Asgard is gone. Sif is dead. ALL his friends, allies, EVERYONE is dead, they aren't coming back, and it was THOR who killed them. That knowledge has to be TEARING him up inside. Now add that to the fact that he returns to find that since his departure:

-His friend Hawkeye has perished
-TWO of his friends- Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch- have gone insane/rogue
-His friend Vision has perished
-His friend Scott Lang has perished
-His two former greatest friends are battling each other

I think anyone who expected Thor to think rationally after all that is asking too much, even for a hero.


Oh, and let's not forget- these are PANELS, not pages. Obviously something happens to make Cap give his 'pampered pup' line, plus something clearly happens to Cap. Though I must say- the chances of Falcon dying seem to be increasing...

[Haunt]

Maybe the reborn Thor has no memory of ever being an Avenger.

He doesn't seem to know Falcon.


yeah, but when did he ever acknowledge Sam?

[Nomad]

yeah, but when did he ever acknowledge Sam?
No one aside from Cap EVER seems to pay attention to Falcon. Except when Hawkeye was jealous.

[Green Goblin]

Wow can't wait for it looks like civil war is going to be one of the best stories ever

[ultimatespyder20]

Thor looks pissed. Awesome. Can't wait! :D

Alec

[streator]

Maybe the reborn Thor has no memory of ever being an Avenger.

He doesn't seem to know Falcon.
also possible.
he just seems... distant to me in this preview.

[Wild Card13]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that Cap's "pampered punk" line was to Tony, which would make a lot more sense. He and Tony are still locked in combat, and Tony IS a pampered punk (well, except for the whole thing in Nam and the parents dying). I personally don't think Thor's been very pampered.

That said, I think that Thor is either Ares or the Sentry in disguise. Ares in particular would speak like that, and as mentioned before it wouldn't be hard for all the technology that Reed, Hank, and Tony have combined (plus whatever SHIELD can throw in) to simulate some of Thor's "shinier" powers. But you just know the real Thor is going to show up, if this one isn't him all ready.

[1WEBHEAD]

AWESOME!!!!!!

:cool: :D

Millar officailly pimped out the Marvel Universe.Gosh I LOVE this book.Art is phenomenal!!

[Cowlander]

Thats not Thor....

If it is Thor it looks like hes about to lay them ALL down, boths sides at once. Dude comes back from the dead and all his boys are fighting "ova sum bull$#17!!!"

EDIT::
yeah it looks like either Falcon or Goliath are getting the bullet. I'm not saying I see a pattern in those two choices......but you know lol

[Nomad]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that Cap's "pampered punk" line was to Tony, which would make a lot more sense. He and Tony are still locked in combat, and Tony IS a pampered punk (well, except for the whole thing in Nam and the parents dying). I personally don't think Thor's been very pampered.

That's kinda what I was thinking, too. I want to see the look on Tony's face, too bad he has a helmet. Is he enjoying beating cap to a pulp? Is he disgusted?

[Magneto Rocks]

Cap's line, I'd say, is to Tony or maybe even Spidey or someone. We'll see.


This IS Thor, I'd bet my house on it. Seriously- he got the COVER of CW4, he got the dramatic last page of CW3, he is the focal point of this entire issue, his new ongoing is confirmed, his reasons for being on Tony's side are explained this issue.... it's Thor. Live with it.

PLUS SHIELD undoubtedly know his hammer went missing and a man there vanished, so it would be UNBELIEVABLY, INDESCRIBABLY stupid to fake it unless it was to smoke out the real Thor, and even then it would be idiotic.

PS: This is more to newsarama than here but... heh heh. It's funny JUST how upset people can get about anything. he's had one line- "OMG HE WAS INCREDIBLY OUT OF CHARACTER." People complained a LOT about the stupid Shakespearian speak- "OMG HE ISN'T SPEAKING SHAKESPEARIAN, IT'S SO OUT OF CHARACTER." We saw Cap speak- we don't know who ti. "OMG, CAP IS OUT OF CHARACTER." SO annoying.

PPS: Wanna point out that clearly something happens to either Falcon after he grabs Cap, Cap before Falcon grabs him, or someone else before/after Falcon grabs Cap that they don't want us to know, since they zoomed in on one smaller panel. I'm guessing it's whatever happens to Cap.

[Joe Acro]

That... thing... doesn't talk like Thor, doesn't look like Thor, and doesn't act like Thor. Thus, it is not Thor.

[streator]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that Cap's "pampered punk" line was to Tony, which would make a lot more sense. He and Tony are still locked in combat, and Tony IS a pampered punk (well, except for the whole thing in Nam and the parents dying). I personally don't think Thor's been very pampered.

That said, I think that Thor is either Ares or the Sentry in disguise. Ares in particular would speak like that, and as mentioned before it wouldn't be hard for all the technology that Reed, Hank, and Tony have combined (plus whatever SHIELD can throw in) to simulate some of Thor's "shinier" powers. But you just know the real Thor is going to show up, if this one isn't him all ready.
i assumed the line was meant for stark as well.
these are just panels; they could (and probably are) taken from different pages/scenes.

[Magneto Rocks]

That... thing... doesn't talk like Thor, doesn't look like Thor, and doesn't act like Thor. Thus, it is not Thor.

Because you're perfectly qualified to talk about how Thor would speak and act after having been responsible for the deaths of his love, his friends, the Warriors Three, his father, his mother, everything he loved, all of Asgard, his brother, and then returning to discover many of his friends were dead and others fighting EACH OTHER.

Yes, you know exactly how he would act then.

[tonearcher]

I'm not a big fan of Thor, I hope this issue isn't all Thor. I didn't wait all this time to see an issue based on the ONE guy i hate. I'm still going to get it though.

[Gnarl]

That... thing... doesn't talk like Thor, doesn't look like Thor, and doesn't act like Thor. Thus, it is not Thor.

Thor is a viking wargod, 1500 years old or more. Hes probably been a lot of things before an avenger, and spoken many languages before english.

[Parthuman]

Cap's line, I'd say, is to Tony or maybe even Spidey or someone. We'll see.



Cap calling Spider-Man a "pampered punk?" Get real. He's talking to Stark, and Enron Man is going down. :evilsmile

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm not a big fan of Thor, I hope this issue isn't all Thor. I didn't wait all this time to see an issue based on the ONE guy i hate. I'm still going to get it though.

See, this is why I hate the idea that Hulk will come back. The one Marvel character I despise, I have no wish to read an issue of him. But my bet... the first half of the issue, at the very least, will be all Thor. Which rocks:P

Welcome back, big guy. Prepare to show everyone who forgot why you are THE most powerful major Marvel hero. Sentry better start running.

Cap calling Spider-Man a "pampered punk?" Get real. He's talking to Stark, and Enron Man is going down.

I didn't mean to cite him in particular, I just meant one of Tony's team.

Although Stark is, y'know, on the RIGHT side so let's hope he doesn't go down :P

[bulbasteve]

Cap's line, I'd say, is to Tony or maybe even Spidey or someone. We'll see.


This IS Thor, I'd bet my house on it. Seriously- he got the COVER of CW4, he got the dramatic last page of CW3, he is the focal point of this entire issue, his new ongoing is confirmed, his reasons for being on Tony's side are explained this issue.... it's Thor. Live with it.

PLUS SHIELD undoubtedly know his hammer went missing and a man there vanished, so it would be UNBELIEVABLY, INDESCRIBABLY stupid to fake it unless it was to smoke out the real Thor, and even then it would be idiotic.

PS: This is more to newsarama than here but... heh heh. It's funny JUST how upset people can get about anything. he's had one line- "OMG HE WAS INCREDIBLY OUT OF CHARACTER." People complained a LOT about the stupid Shakespearian speak- "OMG HE ISN'T SPEAKING SHAKESPEARIAN, IT'S SO OUT OF CHARACTER." We saw Cap speak- we don't know who ti. "OMG, CAP IS OUT OF CHARACTER." SO annoying.

PPS: Wanna point out that clearly something happens to either Falcon after he grabs Cap, Cap before Falcon grabs him, or someone else before/after Falcon grabs Cap that they don't want us to know, since they zoomed in on one smaller panel. I'm guessing it's whatever happens to Cap.

PREACH ON BROTHER!

Man, I couldn't even finish that thread there was so much whining.

Oh let me just throw some dirt in it. Thor finally found out he is really an alien!

Eat it! :p

[Constantinople]

If it is Thor it looks like hes about to lay them ALL down, boths sides at once. Dude comes back from the dead and all his boys are fighting "ova sum bull$#17!!!"

Well, since the S.H.I.E.L.D guys seemed to of planned it by giving him a code-name and everything, I think he's just against the anti-reg side at the moment.

[Nomad]

I think falcon will try to bail with cap, and thor will call lightning to stop them from escaping. Sam'll get a big hole through his chest and drop cap, who will get incarcerated. Some of cap's resistance will get arrested, some will escape.

One of many possible outcomes, and we don't get much info from the preview :P

I can't wait any longer, shipping here takes forever:mad: I feel like the look on cap's face; I've had it, and I can't/won't take any more punishment.:mad:

Edit- There will always be whining as long as you keep baiting them. Shame on you, Magneto! ;-)

[Jmacq1]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

According to Cable and Deadpool #31, Thor is the one responsible for killing one of the Anti-Reggers.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that Thor doesn't get completely wracked with remorse for this, and the Pro-Reg side doesn't completely condemn him for it, how can you justify the hypocrisy of ever bringing a truly evil supervillain back alive when the Pro-Reg side is willing to kill heroes over what amounts to a difference of opinion over a law? They're willing to kill a Goliath or Hercules or Falcon...but not a Zemo or Doom or Red Skull? Venom? Sabretooth? Whoever? They'll turn a blind-eye and grant "amnesty" to proven criminals and villains if they sign on. But will sanction lethal force against a man that's saved lives many times before, and until recently was anything -but- a criminal?

Explain to me how you can support a so-called "hero" that will kill a good man who happens to be breaking one controversial law, but let murderers, rapists, and thieves go to prison, or worse yet join them?

Or would you prefer that a good portion of the heroes of Marvel Earth take up the "Punisher" mentality full time?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.

[XPac]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

According to Cable and Deadpool #31, Thor is the one responsible for killing one of the Anti-Reggers.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that Thor doesn't get completely wracked with remorse for this, and the Pro-Reg side doesn't completely condemn him for it, how can you justify the hypocrisy of ever bringing a truly evil supervillain back alive when the Pro-Reg side is willing to kill heroes over what amounts to a difference of opinion over a law? They're willing to kill a Goliath or Hercules or Falcon...but not a Zemo or Doom or Red Skull? Venom? Sabretooth? Whoever?

Explain to me how you can support a so-called "hero" that will kill a good man who happens to be breaking one controversial law, but let murderers, rapists, and thieves go to prison?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.

I'm not a pro guy, but I'll give my 2 cents anyways.

From day 1 the pro side has thrown around the term accountability. If Thor does kill someone, here is the Pro's sides chance to prove it.

I supsect personally that the registration will lead to LESS accountability since SHIELD will sweep their wrong doings under the carpet as long as the heroes are acting under their authority.

If they take Thor and throw him in the negative zone for this, then they will prove that he's they do mean to hold the heroes and themselves accountable for their actions. If they litereally allow Thor to get away with murder, then they are proving the registration to be the sham it really is.

But obviously we have to wait to see how it plays out.

[CMBMOOL]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

According to Cable and Deadpool #31, Thor is the one responsible for killing one of the Anti-Reggers.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that Thor doesn't get completely wracked with remorse for this, and the Pro-Reg side doesn't completely condemn him for it, how can you justify the hypocrisy of ever bringing a truly evil supervillain back alive when the Pro-Reg side is willing to kill heroes over what amounts to a difference of opinion over a law? They're willing to kill a Goliath or Hercules or Falcon...but not a Zemo or Doom or Red Skull? Venom? Sabretooth? Whoever? They'll turn a blind-eye and grant "amnesty" to proven criminals and villains if they sign on. But will sanction lethal force against a man that's saved lives many times before, and until recently was anything -but- a criminal?

Explain to me how you can support a so-called "hero" that will kill a good man who happens to be breaking one controversial law, but let murderers, rapists, and thieves go to prison, or worse yet join them?

Or would you prefer that a good portion of the heroes of Marvel Earth take up the "Punisher" mentality full time?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.


Man, that is deep. :(

True, and deeply correct with what the Pro-side are doing throughout the War so far.... :D

[Will.S]

Nice preview and all but I just want the damn book in my hands.

[CyberCoyote]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

<snip all excellent points>rtion of the heroes of Marvel Earth take up the "Punisher" mentality full time?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.

The answer/explanation is in this thread, "Dude! Thor's rocks! Millar Rawks! Thor's gonna smash the crap outta everyone!!"

Yep, he's gonna randomly beat the living crap out of a bunch of heroes he hasn't seen in months who were his friends because someone told him to. This makes total sense. :rolleyes:

It's really, really lame, makes no sense, but folks are fawning over it becauses 'It's KEWL!' Maybe their favorite Uncle Jim will come by the family party and beat the crap out of everyone..that's KEWL and makes as much sense. This is Millar's style, write for the panel. Zombie heroes are tougher than U-Heroes but U Thing trumps Zombie Hullk, but Zombie Thing is tougher than U Thing and UHulk chamber can contain Zombie Thing. Dead horse, but one of the few examples I've got :)

Plus..is Falcon blind? One eye is white, the other is rolling away like a lazy eye. What's up with that?

[XPac]

The answer/explanation is in this thread, "Dude! Thor's rocks! Millar Rawks! Thor's gonna smash the crap outta everyone!!"

Yep, he's gonna randomly beat the living crap out of a bunch of heroes he hasn't seen in months who were his friends because someone told him to. This makes total sense. :rolleyes:

It's really, really lame, makes no sense, but folks are fawning over it becauses 'It's KEWL!' Maybe their favorite Uncle Jim will come by the family party and beat the crap out of everyone..that's KEWL and makes as much sense. This is Millar's style, write for the panel. Zombie heroes are tougher than U-Heroes but U Thing trumps Zombie Hullk, but Zombie Thing is tougher than U Thing and UHulk chamber can contain Zombie Thing. Dead horse, but one of the few examples I've got :)

Plus..is Falcon blind? One eye is white, the other is rolling away like a lazy eye. What's up with that?


I'm willing to give Millar the benefit of the doubt about Thor though. There could be an explanation as to why he's acting out of character here. We'll have to wait and see though.

[Nomad]

I'm not a pro guy, but I'll give my 2 cents anyways.

From day 1 the pro side has thrown around the term accountability. If Thor does kill someone, here is the Pro's sides chance to prove it.

I supsect personally that the registration will lead to LESS accountability since SHIELD will sweep their wrong doings under the carpet as long as the heroes are acting under their authority.

If they take Thor and throw him in the negative zone for this, then they will prove that he's they do mean to hold the heroes and themselves accountable for their actions. If they litereally allow Thor to get away with murder, then they are proving the registration to be the sham it really is.

But obviously we have to wait to see how it plays out.

Good point. Is Thor above the law? What does he think? Would he turn himself in? Would Iron Man try to hunt him down? They did say that someone was going to prison.

[bulbasteve]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

According to Cable and Deadpool #31, Thor is the one responsible for killing one of the Anti-Reggers.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that Thor doesn't get completely wracked with remorse for this, and the Pro-Reg side doesn't completely condemn him for it, how can you justify the hypocrisy of ever bringing a truly evil supervillain back alive when the Pro-Reg side is willing to kill heroes over what amounts to a difference of opinion over a law? They're willing to kill a Goliath or Hercules or Falcon...but not a Zemo or Doom or Red Skull? Venom? Sabretooth? Whoever? They'll turn a blind-eye and grant "amnesty" to proven criminals and villains if they sign on. But will sanction lethal force against a man that's saved lives many times before, and until recently was anything -but- a criminal?

Explain to me how you can support a so-called "hero" that will kill a good man who happens to be breaking one controversial law, but let murderers, rapists, and thieves go to prison, or worse yet join them?

Or would you prefer that a good portion of the heroes of Marvel Earth take up the "Punisher" mentality full time?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.

Should be easy enough to talk out of!

First we really don't know the context of the scene. What sort of a fight took place before the death, if the death was accidental or not. And I don't know..if Thor can bring people back to life now or something. Who freakin knows with gods and stuff.

It isn't at all a punisher mentality, it's a law enforcement mentality. You don't want to kill people, you want them to surrender, but if they persist you have to use force. You want to use a measured amount of force for the situation, but if you even think your life is in any risk than you have every right to kill the person. Though none of this weaklings on the anti-reg side are much of a real risk to Thor, so it seems to be chalked up to him accidentally killing someone.

I do find it interesting that you want to mark off the levels of criminals. Hey if a guy who robbed a store to feed his starving family pulled a gun on a cop he would be just as dead as a mass muderer who did the same. That is all it comes down to, do they surrender or not, not the kind of crimes they commit. That is the difference between a punisher and a law enforcement officer.

Think of it as a hard lesson all law breakers in the MU will need to learn. There are real consequences if try to run away or start a fight with people upholding the law. It has always been a problem that villains abused some heroes good nature and caused untold destruction because they knew the heroes wouldn't kill them. If Iron Man tells you to stand down, you sure as hell better law right down and put your hands on the back of your head if you know what's good for you.

[Haunt]

The answer/explanation is in this thread, "Dude! Thor's rocks! Millar Rawks! Thor's gonna smash the crap outta everyone!!"

Yep, he's gonna randomly beat the living crap out of a bunch of heroes he hasn't seen in months who were his friends because someone told him to. This makes total sense. :rolleyes:

It's really, really lame, makes no sense, but folks are fawning over it becauses 'It's KEWL!' Maybe their favorite Uncle Jim will come by the family party and beat the crap out of everyone..that's KEWL and makes as much sense. This is Millar's style, write for the panel. Zombie heroes are tougher than U-Heroes but U Thing trumps Zombie Hullk, but Zombie Thing is tougher than U Thing and UHulk chamber can contain Zombie Thing. Dead horse, but one of the few examples I've got :)

Plus..is Falcon blind? One eye is white, the other is rolling away like a lazy eye. What's up with that?

he's kind of like Shaquille O'Neal. sometimes his eyes stray. Falcon's sensitive about it, so the other guys don't really look directly at him while speaking.

[XPac]

Should be easy enough to talk out of!

First we really don't know the context of the scene. What sort of a fight took place before the death, if the death was accidental or not. And I don't know..if Thor can bring people back to life now or something. Who freakin knows with gods and stuff.

It isn't at all a punisher mentality, it's a law enforcement mentality. You don't want to kill people, you want them to surrender, but if they persist you have to use force. You want to use a measured amount of force for the situation, but if you even think your life is in any risk than you have every right to kill the person. Though none of this weaklings on the anti-reg side are much of a real risk to Thor, so it seems to be chalked up to him accidentally killing someone.

I do find it interesting that you want to mark off the levels of criminals. Hey if a guy who robbed a store to feed his starving family pulled a gun on a cop he would be just as dead as a mass muderer who did the same. That is all it comes down to, do they surrender or not, not the kind of crimes they commit. That is the difference between a punisher and a law enforcement officer.

Think of it as a hard lesson all law breakers in the MU will need to learn. There are real consequences if try to run away or start a fight with people upholding the law. It has always been a problem that villains abused some heroes good nature and caused untold destruction because they knew the heroes wouldn't kill them. If Iron Man tells you to stand down, you sure as hell better law right down and put your hands on the back of your head if you know what's good for you.


And this is exactly why most heroes DON'T feel comfortable signing on as agents of SHIELD. Most don't want to become the thing you have just described.

[Will.S]

I'm willing to give Millar the benefit of the doubt about Thor though. There could be an explanation as to why he's acting out of character here. We'll have to wait and see though.
That's pretty much what I'm doing.

While I love that Thor is back and he made for the perfect cliffhanger for #3, this obviously isn't the Thor we all know and love but then again there may be a reason for it (such as a dominant S.H.I.E.L.D. agent personality in Thor's body or somesuch).

[Christopher O]

Well, I think that is the real Thor, and I certainly hope it is. He has Thor's powers, and he looks like Thor. The only thing missing is the absurd faux-early modern English speech that a Norse God shouldn't been using in the first place.

[bulbasteve]

And this is exactly why most heroes DON'T feel comfortable signing on as agents of SHIELD. Most don't want to become the thing you have just described.

Reponsible members of society? The "thing" I am describing is police officers. I know some people are pretty anti-establishment in the MU (and on these boards), but that is just ridiculous ...

[bulbasteve]

Well, I think that is the real Thor, and I certainly hope it is. He has Thor's powers, and he looks like Thor. The only thing missing is the absurd faux-early modern English speech that a Norse God shouldn't been using in the first place.

I just don't think from a writing standpoint Millar would want to do a fake Thor or some other sort of copout. I mean the whole "no mastermind" mentality of Civil War I think should be extended to "no! He is really ____!". This just isn't THAT kind of story with that sort of plot twist.

Plus yeah Thor should not be talking like that, I don't know why it wasn't gotten rid of sooner than this.

[XPac]

Reponsible members of society? The "thing" I am describing is police officers. I know some people are pretty anti-establishment in the MU (and on these boards), but that is just ridiculous ...

I think what makes these guys heroes is they have a HIGHER standard than police officers or agents of SHIELD.

We've seen Hill's brand of Justice in the Savage Land... that's not the way most of these guys want to operate. There's a reason they limit lethal for to the degree they do... it is a respect for human life above and beyond your atypical agent of SHIELD holds, and miles above anything that Hill uses in place of a moral compass.

It's not ridiculous... it's how superheroes operate. It's what seperates them from people like Hill and SHIELD.

[Christopher O]

I just don't think from a writing standpoint Millar would want to do a fake Thor or some other sort of copout. I mean the whole "no mastermind" mentality of Civil War I think should be extended to "no! He is really ____!". This just isn't THAT kind of story with that sort of plot twist.
I agree, and I don't think it's just Millar that feels that way. Quesada and Marvel have obviously been behind this story. Hell, they let him unmask Spider-Man. This story is founded on ideological differences. I can't imagine this "Thor" making such a stand, only to be revealed as a fake. While we're on the subject, the idea of that really being the Sentry makes little sense. Bob isn't nearly that assertive, and I can't imagine him attacking other heroes like that right out of the gate. Thor, on the other hand, is a warrior-god. He's also a hothead.

[XPac]

I agree, and I don't think it's just Millar that feels that way. Quesada and Marvel have obviously been behind this story. Hell, they let him unmask Spider-Man. This story is founded on ideological differences. I can't imagine this "Thor" making such a stand, only to be revealed as a fake. While we're on the subject, the idea of that really being the Sentry makes little sense. Bob isn't nearly that assertive, and I can't imagine him attacking other heroes like that right out of the gate. Thor, on the other hand, is a warrior-god. He's also a hothead.

Well, if it's Thor then it's Thor that's not in his right mind. He wouldn't be in character for him to work for SHIELD or the government. He showed his feelings for government involvement during Busieks run.

That said, I'd still say it was a fake. The real Thor, hotheaded or not, would not have just showed up that way and attacked his friends that violently.

[curefreak]

im kinda scared after seeing this i hope thor doesnt kill anyone special:(

[Nomad]

So much complaining over a preview. If it's a general CW gripe, then take it to another thread. I'm tired of hearing re-hashed criticism. Yeah, damn you marvel! You should have gone out of business years ago, if you can't please everyone all the time:rolleyes: Is there anything you do like?

I LIKE this book being different, and I really don't like Ultimates. Some of the time I like Millar, some of the time his stuff doesn't agree with me. I like to see how different writers interpret characters. There are hundreds of issues of Thor and Captain America. The newest book doesn't always have to define a character permanently. Millar just wants people to feel strongly about the characters reacting to each other this way, acting different for once. If there were too many masterminds or imposters, there wouldn't be any weight to whats going on.

[XPac]

im kinda scared after seeing this i hope thor doesnt kill anyone special:(

They're ALL special in their own way.

But that said, I don't see any marvel cash cows dying (or at least staying dead).

[CyberCoyote]

So much complaining over a preview. If it's a general CW gripe, then take it to another thread. I'm tired of hearing re-hashed criticism. Yeah, damn you marvel! You should have gone out of business years ago, if you can't please everyone all the time:rolleyes: Is there anything you do like?

:p If we just posted the positive it would get boring quick.

Whether readers love or hate it it generates debate and no publicity is bad publicity.

[Jmacq1]

Should be easy enough to talk out of!

First we really don't know the context of the scene. What sort of a fight took place before the death, if the death was accidental or not. And I don't know..if Thor can bring people back to life now or something. Who freakin knows with gods and stuff.

It isn't at all a punisher mentality, it's a law enforcement mentality. You don't want to kill people, you want them to surrender, but if they persist you have to use force. You want to use a measured amount of force for the situation, but if you even think your life is in any risk than you have every right to kill the person. Though none of this weaklings on the anti-reg side are much of a real risk to Thor, so it seems to be chalked up to him accidentally killing someone.

I do find it interesting that you want to mark off the levels of criminals. Hey if a guy who robbed a store to feed his starving family pulled a gun on a cop he would be just as dead as a mass muderer who did the same. That is all it comes down to, do they surrender or not, not the kind of crimes they commit. That is the difference between a punisher and a law enforcement officer.

Think of it as a hard lesson all law breakers in the MU will need to learn. There are real consequences if try to run away or start a fight with people upholding the law. It has always been a problem that villains abused some heroes good nature and caused untold destruction because they knew the heroes wouldn't kill them. If Iron Man tells you to stand down, you sure as hell better law right down and put your hands on the back of your head if you know what's good for you.

Wow....I'm thinking you watch a lot of cop TV shows/movies.

Because in the real world it's -rare- for a police officer to pull their gun, unless they're on a SWAT team. Under normal circumstances, a Police officer only fires his weapon when he's saving his own life, his partner's life, or the lives of innocent civilians. They do -not- shoot to kill when someone "runs" or "refuses to surrender". There's a whole laundry list of other nonlethal options that have to be exercised if at all possible before gunplay factors in. The cop that shoots first and employs nonlethal alternatives later will be a cop without a job (and possibly in prison himself) before long. Even SWAT teams and snipers are only deployed when the authorities are reasonably certain that the use of such force is the only alternative to greater loss of life.

There is -no one- presently on the Anti-Reg team besides possibly Hercules and Wiccan that have the slighest chance of harming Thor. In fact, Thor could conceivably trounce the entire Anti-Reg faction all by his lonesome (so could Iron Man or Sentry for that matter). Any use of lethal force on his part is quite frankly overkill. And entirely unjustified against what amounts to a "draft dodger."

Once again, it boils down to hypocrisy (killing heroes/good people vs. leaving bad people alive). And the fact that you seem to want "Supercops: the comic" whereas others would prefer that Superheroes be more than just glorified law-enforcement agents.

[Nomad]

:p If we just posted the positive it would get boring quick.

Whether readers love or hate it it generates debate and no publicity is bad publicity.

I agree. But there is debating something, and then there is $hiting on something. I'm not talking directly to YOU, coyote. Conjecture is fine, whether it's negative or positive. I just hate cycles of argument based on what someone thinks is gonna happen. I know comic geeks are set in their ways:( And I know I'm beating a dead horse. Forgive me. It's just I'm tired of the "out-of-character" debate, specifically. There is a difference between out-of-character, and out-of-context. Civil War is about being out-of-character, and if you hate that, this thread isn't the place to b*tch about it over, and over, and over...

[Smokey17]

Ok. Let say Thor is indeed Pro-Reg, how do the anti heroes even stand against them?

I"m not even sure even if Namor joins in the battle he can help turn the tide. I think for even the anti side has chance is to get help from The X-Men, The Inhumans or Doc Strange.

It seems to me that anti's can't win this either politically or in a fight situation.

what do you guys think?

I hope Cap's side gets' reinforcements pretty quick. Imperious Rex!!!:evilsmile

[Markavian]

He has returned ....Abandon Hope all you Anti Regs ..Know Despair and Tremble in Fear !! :cool: :D

[Markavian]

Well, if it's Thor then it's Thor that's not in his right mind. He wouldn't be in character for him to work for SHIELD or the government. He showed his feelings for government involvement during Busieks run.

That said, I'd still say it was a fake. The real Thor, hotheaded or not, would not have just showed up that way and attacked his friends that violently.
How Thor was deeply involved with SHEILD During Simonsons Days on Thor and they did him favors in return.Perhaps Thor feels the SHRA is Just and SHEILD is the only ones that can carry it out? Remember he hasnt seen Hill do anything immoral YET;)

[Markavian]

:) Reponsible members of society? The "thing" I am describing is police officers. I know some people are pretty anti-establishment in the MU (and on these boards), but that is just ridiculous ...
To Be A Police Officer or a Soldier or whatever is a Noble thing .:)

[Markavian]

See, this is why I hate the idea that Hulk will come back. The one Marvel character I despise, I have no wish to read an issue of him. But my bet... the first half of the issue, at the very least, will be all Thor. Which rocks:P

Welcome back, big guy. Prepare to show everyone who forgot why you are THE most powerful major Marvel hero. Sentry better start running.



I didn't mean to cite him in particular, I just meant one of Tony's team.

Although Stark is, y'know, on the RIGHT side so let's hope he doesn't go down :P
Thor is about to lay the Smack down .I think Goliath will try and take Thor and he will suffer the Fate of Many a Giant that has crossed the Thundergod . Thor will lay down the Godsmack!!

[Nomad]

:)
To Be A Police Officer or a Soldier or whatever is a Noble thing .:)
Yes, it is. Unless you abuse that power, *cough* SHIELD *cough*

[Markavian]

Cap's line, I'd say, is to Tony or maybe even Spidey or someone. We'll see.


This IS Thor, I'd bet my house on it. Seriously- he got the COVER of CW4, he got the dramatic last page of CW3, he is the focal point of this entire issue, his new ongoing is confirmed, his reasons for being on Tony's side are explained this issue.... it's Thor. Live with it.

PLUS SHIELD undoubtedly know his hammer went missing and a man there vanished, so it would be UNBELIEVABLY, INDESCRIBABLY stupid to fake it unless it was to smoke out the real Thor, and even then it would be idiotic.

PS: This is more to newsarama than here but... heh heh. It's funny JUST how upset people can get about anything. he's had one line- "OMG HE WAS INCREDIBLY OUT OF CHARACTER." People complained a LOT about the stupid Shakespearian speak- "OMG HE ISN'T SPEAKING SHAKESPEARIAN, IT'S SO OUT OF CHARACTER." We saw Cap speak- we don't know who ti. "OMG, CAP IS OUT OF CHARACTER." SO annoying.

PPS: Wanna point out that clearly something happens to either Falcon after he grabs Cap, Cap before Falcon grabs him, or someone else before/after Falcon grabs Cap that they don't want us to know, since they zoomed in on one smaller panel. I'm guessing it's whatever happens to Cap.
And beating up Iron Mans Crew they wouldnt be saying a word about Thor "Being out of Character" or not saying Thee Thou or whatever lol.My Guesses are It is Thor 100% but he is so torn up by the suffering and loss he has endured he is becoming as hard nosed as Ares used to be(Strange how they may be switching outlooks on life eh?) OR its Donald Blake in Control ....Either way the Anti regs are in for a thrashing.

[Jmacq1]

:)
To Be A Police Officer or a Soldier or whatever is a Noble thing .:)

Yes, it is (provided you're the right kind of person for the job). But that's in the real world.

In the comic book world, to be a police officer or a soldier is to be an "extra". ;)

Seriously. The whole point of superheroes in the first place was that they handle the problems that the soldiers and police officers can't on their own. And many times they do that because they're not hampered by the red-tape and bureaucracy that those organizations have to deal with on an almost-daily basis. They don't have to worry overly much about political concerns and that gives them the freedom to go after villains that others cannot touch. That's something that's ofttimes -needed- in the comic-book universe.

There's a place for some government-sponsored and controlled superheroes, too (I loved the old "Stormwatch" series, for example). But not -every- superhero should be subject to that (much less involuntarily). Even if some heroes are technically "outlaws" (The X-Men were outlaws for years, after all), they serve a necessary role in the grand scheme of things.

[XPac]

And beating up Iron Mans Crew they wouldnt be saying a word about Thor "Being out of Character" or not saying Thee Thou or whatever lol.My Guesses are It is Thor 100% but he is so torn up by the suffering and loss he has endured he is becoming as hard nosed as Ares used to be(Strange how they may be switching outlooks on life eh?) OR its Donald Blake in Control ....Either way the Anti egs are in for a thrashing.

Truthfully I would find it less out of character for Thor to attack Irons Mans side.

Iron Man was beating the crap out of Cap, so I would find it believable if he intervened on Caps behalf. But if he were to end up KILLING a member of Iron Mans side, then we're back to the "being out of character" category.

If Thor is killing ANY hero out there, it's not the Thor we know.

[Markavian]

im kinda scared after seeing this i hope thor doesnt kill anyone special:(
We want Thor to kill? Heh ..I vote for Hawkeye of the New Avengers so Clint can get his old name back :cool:

[Markavian]

Truthfully I would find it less out of character for Thor to attack Irons Mans side.

Iron Man was beating the crap out of Cap, so I would find it believable if he intervened on Caps behalf. But if he were to end up KILLING a member of Iron Mans side, then we're back to the "being out of character" category.

If Thor is killing ANY hero out there, it's not the Thor we know.
I have read Thor Comics since LBJ was in the Whitehouse.Thor restrained his Warrior Rage protecting both his Mortal Allies and the Mortals he defended.He is the THUNDERGOD of a WARRIOR Race! The Vikings were not Paficists. I shudder to think what would happen if Thor went Brezerker Rage in Battle in a Large Urban Center.I dont think Thor is pulling Punches here .:eek:

[XPac]

I have read Thor Comics since LBJ was in the Whitehouse.Thor restrained his Warrior Rage protecting both his Mortal Allies and the Mortals he defended.He is the THUNDERGOD of a WARRIOR Race! The Vikings were not Paficists. I shudder to think what would happen if Thor went Brezerker Rage in Battle in a Large Urban Center.I dont think Thor is pulling Punches here .:eek:

And that's why it's fishy... Thor has no reason to be pissed off at anyone there, let alone find himself in some kind of murderous rage. It's uncharacteristic, and frankly flat out wrong under the circumstances.

Being a warrior is one thing, but he's got friends on both sides who have not wronged him in any way that I can think of. For him to be that mad just shows how off it is.

And frankly if he's that unstable, Iron Man and Hill have no place pulling him into a combat situation to begin this. Heroes being reckless is exactly what they are supposed to be putting a stop to, not unleashing.

[curefreak]

I have read Thor Comics since LBJ was in the Whitehouse.Thor restrained his Warrior Rage protecting both his Mortal Allies and the Mortals he defended.He is the THUNDERGOD of a WARRIOR Race! The Vikings were not Paficists. I shudder to think what would happen if Thor went Brezerker Rage in Battle in a Large Urban Center.I dont think Thor is pulling Punches here .:eek:
i dont know he hasnt hurt anyone yet so it seems for now he is pulling his punches.

[the Dagman]

What if it is Thor, and that Thor has been lied to? Thor wouldn't stop to hear Cap's side if he doesn't think he is the real Cap. What if he is under the impression that John Walker has once again assumed the role of Captain America?

[XPac]

What if it is Thor, and that Thor has been lied to? Thor wouldn't stop to hear Cap's side if he doesn't think he is the real Cap. What if he is under the impression that John Walker has once again assumed the role of Captain America?

If indeed that is Thor and he has been lied to (and especially if he ends up KILLING someone because of that lie), then I almost feel sorry for who decided that was a good idea.

[drwho]

The more I read this line the more I hate this book. Cap is getting his @$$ beat and that is all he can say? After the beat down he got he should be running for the hills and not calling people prima donnas.

"you pampered punk"

[Markavian]

And that's why it's fishy... Thor has no reason to be pissed off at anyone there, let alone find himself in some kind of murderous rage. It's uncharacteristic, and frankly flat out wrong under the circumstances.

Being a warrior is one thing, but he's got friends on both sides who have not wronged him in any way that I can think of. For him to be that mad just shows how off it is.

And frankly if he's that unstable, Iron Man and Hill have no place pulling him into a combat situation to begin this. Heroes being reckless is exactly what they are supposed to be putting a stop to, not unleashing.
But Thor almost always pulled his punches in the Past,Even When Rouge attacked Avengers Mansion for example.Only a few times in Marvel history have we seen Thor unleased to the Max..Thor 300 vs the Space Gods..Avengers 179 vs Korvac. I am thinking if it IS Don Blake in control maybe he lacks the discipline that Thor built up for Thousands of years and loses control to let loose on a mortal Hero?

[curefreak]

What if it is Thor, and that Thor has been lied to? Thor wouldn't stop to hear Cap's side if he doesn't think he is the real Cap. What if he is under the impression that John Walker has once again assumed the role of Captain America?
of course if thor had two brain cells he would know that john walker would never go against his country.

[XPac]

But Thor almost alwaqys pulled his punches in the Past,Even When Rouge attacked Avengers Mansion for example.Only a few times in Marvel history have we seen Thor unleased to the Max..Thor 300 vs the Space Gods..Avengers 179 vs Korvac. I am thinking if it IS Don Blake in control maybe he lacks the discipline that Thor built up for Thousands of years and loses control to let loose on a mortal Hero?

Well, if that's the case then it pretty much tosses the value of SHIELDs suppossed training program.

Like you said... we'll see. But it seems to me this sort of superhero behavior is exactly what their side is suppossed to be putting a halt to. Though at least in Hill's eyes, I NEVER thought that was the case. I still don't think she gives a dam about that, she just wants to control the heroes. She's got Thor now blowing up things, which saves tax payers a lot of money. I'm sure the warheads SHIELD normally uses when Hill wants to blow people up aren't cheap.

[Loestal]

Well, if that's the case then it pretty much tosses the value of SHIELDs suppossed training program.



Not if he can be a controlled weapon. They are at war, there will be deaths.

[XPac]

Not if he can be a controlled weapon. They are at war, there will be deaths.

In this case, there doesn't need to be. Caps side is ridiculously underpowered and undermanned. They can be beated without the use of lethal force.

Iron Man by himself has a descent chance of beating Caps entire team.

[curefreak]

In this case, there doesn't need to be. Caps side is ridiculously underpowered and undermanned. They can be beated without the use of lethal force.

Iron Man by himself has a descent chance of beating Caps entire team.
cept for hercules of course....

[Loestal]

In this case, there doesn't need to be. Caps side is ridiculously underpowered and undermanned. They can be beated without the use of lethal force.

Iron Man by himself has a descent chance of beating Caps entire team.


Very true, but if they wanted to attempt to end it in one shot...what better way than to bring out Thor? I'm not saying it's not strange...it is. Thor being on their side makes little sense, but by what I have seen...like many others, it doesn't appear to be Thor in control. I personally subscribe to the Blake theory.

And It seemed like he wasn't talking like his Thor self. Telling them that they "Are going to go down". Shouldn't he be saying something like "Foul heathans shall succumb to thy wrath of Fenris's Beard"?

[Markavian]

Thor DOESNT Blast Falcon in the Back trying to flee..While I am hardnosed Pro that would be an Ignoble act for Thor to blast a far weaker fleeing foe :(

[lonewolf23k]

Because you're perfectly qualified to talk about how Thor would speak and act after having been responsible for the deaths of his love, his friends, the Warriors Three, his father, his mother, everything he loved, all of Asgard, his brother, and then returning to discover many of his friends were dead and others fighting EACH OTHER.

Yes, you know exactly how he would act then.


The trauma that Thor's been through might affect his personality and behavior, but why would it have any impact on his way of speaking?

The Shakesperean Talk's been one of 616 Thor's shticks since Day One, and he only dropped it once in the 90s, under special circumstances. Unless we get a very good explanation as to why he doesn't talk that way anymore, it's safe to consider the absence of the "Asgard-Talk" to be a sign that something's wrong with our Thunder God.

[Omega Alpha]

That doesn't sound like Thor, actually. Not that he couldn't have a "mortal in control" again, but "You are all going down." Just doesn't quite sound "right" from him...as opposed to "Verily, all of thee shall be laid low!"

Yep, that doesn't sound like Thor at all.

But, man, this is the most scary thing i've seen in comics since Cassandra Nova.

[twilight]

I still say that the government got ahold of Mjolnir and kept it until someone under their control could actually weild it.

[XPac]

The trauma that Thor's been through might affect his personality and behavior, but why would it have any impact on his way of speaking?

The Shakesperean Talk's been one of 616 Thor's shticks since Day One, and he only dropped it once in the 90s, under special circumstances. Unless we get a very good explanation as to why he doesn't talk that way anymore, it's safe to consider the absence of the "Asgard-Talk" to be a sign that something's wrong with our Thunder God.

Yeah, I think that makes one of the stronger arguements that it might not be Thor. We saw with Eric Masterson that you can kind of take on Thors appearance when you use his power... so in theory it could be ANYONE (though presumably it would have to be someone noble unless they managed to find a way around that).

[Nomad]

Yep, that doesn't sound like Thor at all.

But, man, this is the most scary thing i've seen in comics since Cassandra Nova.

Whether he sounds like thor or now, I think you got the point. That's exactly how I felt. I haven't been this excited since the first civil war publicity art showing cap vs. iron man

[Omega Alpha]

Perhaps Thor is on neither side, and wants to take down everyone... certainly would give literal meaning to "you are all going down."

Now THAT would be cool. It would be the 4th way, for those who don't want to take sides, but don't want to go to Paris, like Ben Grimm.

[Joe Acro]

Because you're perfectly qualified to talk about how Thor would speak and act after having been responsible for the deaths of his love, his friends, the Warriors Three, his father, his mother, everything he loved, all of Asgard, his brother, and then returning to discover many of his friends were dead and others fighting EACH OTHER.

Yes, you know exactly how he would act then.
Even at his worst and most desperate, Thor hasn't associates of his. Him joining with S.H.I.E.L.D. is an uncharacteristic move. Thos answers to no government, but respects many of the laws that exist. If he returned and wanted to put an end to this war, he wouldn't start by acting like S.H.I.E.L.D.'s lackey. And his previous actions, no matter how extreme, don't really relate to how he talks, unless he's brought himself back in a more Ultimate-like, non-Old English-speaking form.

[spyridona]

Okay, I haven't read a lot of Avengers but...

Doesn't Thor have fancy font when he speaks?

[Brian R]

I am not a Thor fanatic, but that truly does not sound like classic Thor. Something is off my friends.

[bulbasteve]

Even at his worst and most desperate, Thor hasn't associates of his. Him joining with S.H.I.E.L.D. is an uncharacteristic move. Thos answers to no government, but respects many of the laws that exist. If he returned and wanted to put an end to this war, he wouldn't start by acting like S.H.I.E.L.D.'s lackey. And his previous actions, no matter how extreme, don't really relate to how he talks, unless he's brought himself back in a more Ultimate-like, non-Old English-speaking form.

Oh god, if only he was brought back like that. IF ONLY!

It has to be the case, I don't see why Millar would bother brining him back if not to do SOMETHING to his character.

Boy oh boy...was there ever an explanation for why they talk like that?

[spyridona]

My best guess? Thor has been 'dead' for a year. Asgard is gone. Sif is dead. ALL his friends, allies, EVERYONE is dead, they aren't coming back, and it was THOR who killed them. That knowledge has to be TEARING him up inside. Now add that to the fact that he returns to find that since his departure:

-His friend Hawkeye has perished
-TWO of his friends- Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch- have gone insane/rogue
-His friend Vision has perished
-His friend Scott Lang has perished
-His two former greatest friends are battling each other

I think anyone who expected Thor to think rationally after all that is asking too much, even for a hero.



Jesus, and to top this off he will kill one of his friends. :(

[XPac]

I hope Millar isn't changing the way Thor speaks. Even if it doesn't make sense for Thor to speak the way it does, I think it's cool. It makes him unique.

There's a uniqueness to him talking like a bad @$$ while using shakespheran english. "Ultron, we would have words with thee..." You can't get a cooler line than that. There is an elegance to his words of war that would be completely lost if he started talking normally.

[Nomad]

I'm still not judging here, but a mighty man once said

"Captain America! Long hast thou stood atop the Avengers mansion in somber solitude. Yet now, yon tempest-tossed heavens do call to the God of Thunder-- as doth thy plight! I have come hence to have speech with thee.
In truth, it confoundeth me to o'erhear thy cry of death for thy masked identity-- for it is thus that thou dost do battle--and to one asgardian born, there be nothing more glorious -- As we two have so often done with the Avengers-- why, 'tis then that a man be most fully alive! 'Tis then that true nobility will out."

"I wish I could be certain, Thunder God... but since I returned to life, after being frozen in that ice floe... well, I haven't seen as much nobility as I once did."

Then Iron Man comes in and talks about obligation to people, and cap calls him shellhead. Anyway, this is from one of my favs, Captain America and the Falcon. This is the Thor I remember, but he's obviously changed his mind after he returned from the dead.

[Markavian]

I'm still not judging here, but a mighty man once said

"Captain America! Long hast thou stood atop the Avengers mansion in somber solitude. Yet now, yon tempest-tossed heavens do call to the God of Thunder-- as doth thy plight! I have come hence to have speech with thee.
In truth, it confoundeth me to o'erhear thy cry of death for thy masked identity-- for it is thus that thou dost do battle--and to one asgardian born, there be nothing more glorious -- As we two have so often done with the Avengers-- why, 'tis then that a man be most fully alive! 'Tis then that true nobility will out."

"I wish I could be certain, Thunder God... but since I returned to life, after being frozen in that ice floe... well, I haven't seen as much nobility as I once did."

Then Iron Man comes in and talks about obligation to people, and cap calls him shellhead. Anyway, this is from one of my favs, Captain America and the Falcon. This is the Thor I remember, but he's obviously changed his mind after he returned from the dead.
The Simonson Mini "Balder The Brave"? How Thors fellow Asgardian who had died once and his changes were radical..When he first came back from the dead in the late 70's he was a changed man and by the time of the Mini he changed yet again by Wisdom gained by bitter experiance. Given what he has gone through Thor may be under going a simular sea Change.. PRESIDENT THOR 2008 on the GOP Ticket His Slogan will Be Speak loudly and carry a Large Hammer!:D :: Watches Nomad faint:: Gotcha last part was a joke..Maybe :p

[Nomad]

The Simonson Mini "Baldur The Brave"? How Thors fellow Asgardian who had died once and his changes were radical..When he first came back from the dead in the late 70's he was a changed man and by the time of the Mini he changed yet again by Wisdom gained by bitter experiance. Given what he has gone through Thor may be under going a simular sea Change.. PRESIDENT THOR 2008 on the GOP Ticket His Slogan will Be Speak loudly and carry a Large Hammer!:D :: Watches Nomad faint:: Gotcha last part was a joke..Maybe :p

Odin protect thee from thy blasphemy! I hate ultimates, but I actually like the greenie thor from the cartoon. He was such a riot

[scottv]

I think that looks really good. I can't wait for it to come out.

[Violently Apathetic]

*flails* No, bad Thor, bad! I don't care whose side you're on, don't kill anyone! Especially not Falcon, Steve, C&D, any of the Young Avengers...umm...pretty much everyone...except Tony, you can kill him...

Screw the cynics, this looks like fun, now if only the damn thing was released on time.

[Nick Kal]

Doesn't look worth the wait. Dialogue seems uninteresting and I could care less about Thor...

[mybotisgone]

Doesn't look worth the wait. Dialogue seems uninteresting and I could care less about Thor...
Know how you feel. It's like Marvel stoped caring about it's own past and just made a new one where everyone is now a jark.:(

[Jeff-E]

I thought they were getting rid of the funky speech because it probably one of the least "Norse" things about the character. So personally I'm excited to see Thor back in this function. Why's he Pro-Registration? Why not. Why's he against the Anti-Reg? Who knows, but Thor's back, and after CW he'll be back to smiting whomever needs a good smiting! I guess it could be Ares, or it might just be Thor, for everyone who can't accept him in this role, sorry, you may have to deal with it, or it may be Sentry so you may get your wish. Personally I'm hoping for it to be the "real" Thor, and I'm hoping he's on the Pro-reg side.

[Joe Acro]

I thought they were getting rid of the funky speech because it probably one of the least "Norse" things about the character. So personally I'm excited to see Thor back in this function. Why's he Pro-Registration? Why not. Why's he against the Anti-Reg? Who knows, but Thor's back, and after CW he'll be back to smiting whomever needs a good smiting! I guess it could be Ares, or it might just be Thor, for everyone who can't accept him in this role, sorry, you may have to deal with it, or it may be Sentry so you may get your wish. Personally I'm hoping for it to be the "real" Thor, and I'm hoping he's on the Pro-reg side.
He is on the Pro-side. But Thor has never really been the "smiting" type. In fact, I've very rarely seen him kill at all. And, sure, making him talk normal English is more Norse-like.:rolleyes:

[Jeff-E]

He is on the Pro-side. But Thor has never really been the "smiting" type. In fact, I've very rarely seen him kill at all. And, sure, making him talk normal English is more Norse-like.:rolleyes:

I didn't necessarily mean he had to kill, just a good wholoping everynow and again. And yeah, Normal English is more Norse-like than the made up speech patterns they gave him.

[Joe Acro]

I didn't necessarily mean he had to kill, just a good wholoping everynow and again. And yeah, Normal English is more Norse-like than the made up speech patterns they gave him.
Ah, so smiting was poor word choice. Got it. And the way Thor talks (talked, I suppose) is (was) Old English for the most part. Think sort of Shakespearean. I've always assumed it's because the gods learned their English in an older time, losing their Nortic language in favor of a more worldy one. They just didn't keep up with the times or decided the older language sounds richer and more majestic.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I think Thor was just mocking Falcon.

Anyways, that was a great preview. It really showed how screwed the anti-reg forces are, have been, and will be.


And I'm Anti-Registration.

[Modi]

The anti's are not going to win but neither are the pro's, remember the pro's have to deal with the resistance AND zemo's army. In the end no one's going to win anything

[Kid Kamikaze10]

The anti's are not going to win but neither are the pro's, remember the pro's have to deal with the resistance AND zemo's army. In the end no one's going to win anything

I agree with the last part, but I see things quite differently.

1) Zemo is against Grandmaster, not the heroes.

2) As I've said a few times (maybe not here), unless a whole lot of heavy hitters on pro-reg switch sides, or the neutral people help the anti-reg, there is no way Anti-Reg can win. Physically, and almost politically (If Thor really does kill someone, then they might).

3) The pro side will have to deal with SHIELD afterwards (if they win). Unfortunately, they might all get duped like Simon did.

[Joe Acro]

1) Zemo is against Grandmaster, not the heroes.

In fact, his plan is to reunite the hero community. Both sides are going to have to deal with Zemo and his grand plan, not just the anti- heroes.

[Christopher O]

I am not a Thor fanatic, but that truly does not sound like classic Thor.
Let's all be thankful for that.

[curefreak]

i for one love the way classic thor talks, it makes him seem more godlike than if he were to talk like a regular person.

[Brian R]

Let's all be thankful for that.

Some of us don't want a new "kewl" Thor, we want the one we grew up with, the original. While Ult. Thor is a really great character, he works because he is in the Ultimate Universe.

Also, you don't have to be a smart-ass about it. If you think I am the only one who would rather have the classic Thor back, then you haven't been paying attention to the boards lately.

[XPac]

Some of us don't want a new "kewl" Thor, we want the one we grew up with, the original. While Ult. Thor is a really great character, he works because he is ni the Ultimate Universe.

Also, you don't have to be a smart-ass about it. If you think I am the only one who would rather have the classic Thor back, then you haven't been paying attention to the boards lately.

Yeah. Classics are classics for a reason. It wasn't fixed cause it wasn't broken.

WORSE case scenario... Millar decides he wants to make Thor "cooler" and more contemporary, then someone else will ignore that and turn him back to what he was. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

[curefreak]

personally my theory is hes been brainwashed and may not even know hes a norse god.

[XPac]

personally my theory is hes been brainwashed and may not even know hes a norse god.

Hmmm... if that's the case, and Tony is going around brainwashing his former friends then all I can say is that's messed up.

[Joe Acro]

Hmmm... if that's the case, and Tony is going around brainwashing his former friends then all I can say is that's messed up.
This isn't Identity Crisis. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way Marvel took it.

Is it really that surprising that Thor is acting uncharacteristically? It's not like many others are in character.

[Christopher O]

Some of us don't want a new "kewl" Thor, we want the one we grew up with, the original. While Ult. Thor is a really great character, he works because he is ni the Ultimate Universe.
Who said I wanted "kewl" Thor? It's stupid for a Norse god to be using a variation of Early Modern English, since it's from a period and region that have absolutely nothing to do with him. Besides, it makes him even more remote and more difficult to identify with, which isn't something he needs. The whole "god" thing makes him remote enough. It didn't make sense 40 years ago, and it doesn't make sense now. Also, using contemporary English isn't going to turn him into Ultimate Thor anymore than it'll turn him into Captain America, Wonder Woman, Superman, or Wolverine, since they all use it too and still seem to retain their character traits.
Also, you don't have to be a smart-ass about it. If you think I am the only one who would rather have the classic Thor back, then you haven't been paying attention to the boards lately.
I'll be a smart-ass about whatever the hell I want, thank you very much, and I really don't care who wants Thor talking like that. The whole world can want it, but it still won't make sense.

[XPac]

This isn't Identity Crisis. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way Marvel took it.

Is it really that surprising that Thor is acting uncharacteristically? It's not like many others are in character.

It's a matter of degree of acceptance. If being out of character means killing people, then yes it should be suprising. Ultimately we'll have to wait and see how it pans out in the actual book.

[XPac]

Who said I wanted "kewl" Thor? It's stupid for a Norse god to be using a variation of Early Modern English, since it's from a period and region that have absolutely nothing to do with him. Besides, it makes him even more remote and more difficult to identify with, which isn't something he needs. The whole "god" thing makes him remote enough. It didn't make sense 40 years ago, and it doesn't make sense now. Also, using contemporary English isn't going to turn him into Ultimate Thor anymore than it'll turn him into Captain America, Wonder Woman, Superman, or Wolverine, since they all use it too and still seem to retain their character traits.



I don't think too many people had trouble identifying with the characters language for the past 40 years, so I'm not sure if it would be a problem now though. Truthfully I think it'll make it HARDER to identify with the character since it doesn't sound like the one we've known for decades.

[Ult. Fireboy]

It is obvious that Tony is going through Peter's brain. The preview really doesn't spoil anything though. The Cap in that picture has brown hair. The real Cap is blonde I thought.:confused: I can't wait for the battle, Thor looks as gruesum mad as gruesum mad can get.:evilangry

[Christopher O]

I don't think too many people had trouble identifying with the characters language for the past 40 years, so I'm not sure if it would be a problem now though. Truthfully I think it'll make it HARDER to identify with the character since it doesn't sound like the one we've known for decades.
Not everyone has been reading Thor for decades, and I really don't see the problem with Thor using normal speech patterns.

[Markavian]

Had HUGE Respect for Law and Order when you think about it. The Norse believed Asgard Stood For Order and Honor against the Dark forces of Chaos. So it wouldnt be too much a strecth to think Thor might not support the SHRA and SHEILD . Unless he sees them doing something dishonorible he probally wouldnt have a problem with it.:cool:

[XPac]

Had HUGE Respect for Law and Order when you think about it. The Norse believed Asgard Stood For Order and Honor against the Dark forces of Chaos. So it wouldnt be too much a strecth to think Thor might not support the SHRA and SHEILD . Unless he sees them doing something dishonorible he probally wouldnt have a problem with it.:cool:

Respecting law is one thing... but is Thor going to allow SHIELD or US law to dictate to him how he does his business? Thor's a god... mortals probably can't even order him LUNCH unless they earned some level of respect from him.

A well written Thor shouldn't be asking Hill "how high" after she tells him to jump. Something isn't right about that.

[Markavian]

A Problem with that Theroy is: They would have used it on other weaker Heroes such as Captured Anti Regs instead or putting them in the 42.;)

[Doom Hammer]

This looks insanely awesome. Thor is the nuclear option, and he's just been released. That first image of Thor standing gravely in front of the heroes is, well, chilling, since we all (kind of) know what happens next. He's BACK, and for some reason, he's getting some killing done.

The amount of complaining, though disappointing, is not surprising. So many people here just refuse to be happy with anything. "Not worth the wait"? Are you joking? Look at what's happening! This is huge, Marvel is pulling out all the stops for Civil War. I mean, the rebels are panicking. This is the one of the most exciting events in recent years.

As for the complaints of anyone being "out of character", God, it gets so old. People respond differently to different situations. Cap's old friends, two of the famed "big three" Avengers, have turned on him, and have resorted to hunting him down and killing his friend. And you want him to be poetic? I think it's amazing that he'd stand up like that, seeing as how he's completely outmatched. As for Thor, he was just echoing the Falcon's words. And I think it's pretty strange to be so judgemental based on -- literally -- one line.

Think of what Thor's returned to. Think about it: a bunch if his friends are either dead, crazy, or kind of villainous. His other friends are in a futile fight against each other. And he just got back from the dead, having DESTROYED ASGARD and everyone he cared about therein. He's not in a good place.

[XPac]

A Problem with that Theroy is: They would have used it on other weaker Heroes such as Captured Anti Regs instead or putting them in the 42.;)

For all we know, that's what they're doing as we speak.

Maybe that's the advatnage of putting them in the negative zone. It's a place that psychologically messes you up already, possibly making any brainwashing attempts that much easier.

I don't actually think that's what's going on, but since it's a theory out there I'm just running with it to see where it goes.

[Markavian]

For all we know, that's what they're doing as we speak.

Maybe that's the advatnage of putting them in the negative zone. It's a place that psychologically messes you up already, possibly making any brainwashing attempts that much easier.

I don't actually think that's what's going on, but since it's a theory out there I'm just running with it to see where it goes.
I dont see anyway SHEILD could drag Thor there against his will..Unless they decived him which is always a possibility.We'll have to see.;)

[XPac]

I dont see anyway SHEILD could drag Thor there against his will..Unless they decived him which is always a possibility.We'll have to see.;)

I don't see them being able to do anything with him by force either. Course, since he was dead before it may not have been that much of a struggle.

I'm still of the belief it's not the real Thor so it's almost a mute point to me personally. I have trouble buying Thor brainwashed or not, becoming one of Hill's underlings.

[Lochdale]

Not everyone has been reading Thor for decades, and I really don't see the problem with Thor using normal speech patterns.

Well that's because you haven't read Thor. Do you think maybe fans of his, that is, those who have actually read Thor, might be a little upset. Can you see the other side of the story?

If this really is Thor then I'm out.

[discostu]

Maybe don blake knew someone in stamford.

[curefreak]

the thing is if thor talked in what would be his native language noone would understand him so the closest compromise would be the old english.

[Wind-Breaker]

I'm not really a fan of the brain-washing theory myself, I thinks more likely its a different person. What rubs me the wrong way about Thor was his appearance in FF, more than in this preview. I mean have a hard time figuring out the time period between FF #538, and the events of Civil War 3. It seems awfully quick for the guy to pick up the Hammer, become thor, and then already be apart of Iron Man's and SHEILD's tactics. A little fishy...

As for the "old English" topic, I always been annoyed with Thor speaking that way, not because of accuracy, or making sense. Its quite frankly, I don't have the intellectual capacity to understand WTF he’s saying :p And your talking to a college graduate... ah education these days.

[Doom Hammer]

Well that's because you haven't read Thor. Do you think maybe fans of his, that is, those who have actually read Thor, might be a little upset. Can you see the other side of the story?

If this really is Thor then I'm out.

Damn, man, you're talking about one sentence, in which Thor is echoing someone else's words. This is so not a big deal.

[Conn Seanery]

Maybe the vessel through which Thor exists is still in control, like in the (*shudder*) Thunderstrike days. The power of Thor is up for grabs, but you don't give up your personality. I haven't read Thor since his paramedic days, but maybe this destruction of Asgard that everyone keeps talking about caused him to retreat, or let whoever is worthy of wielding Mjolnir use the power of Thor as they choose since they're, y'know, worthy.

Either way, this much complaining over one panel's dialogue is a bit astounding.

[Christopher O]

Well that's because you haven't read Thor. Do you think maybe fans of his, that is, those who have actually read Thor, might be a little upset. Can you see the other side of the story?

If this really is Thor then I'm out.
I have read plenty of Thor and Avengers, and the speech thing has always been my problem with the character, and I do understand wanting a character to retain qualities that you find endearing, but I just find the speech thing utterly absurd. Now, can you at least admit that it makes little sense for him to speak that way and always has?

[XPac]

I'm not really a fan of the brain-washing theory myself, I thinks more likely its a different person. What rubs me the wrong way about Thor was his appearance in FF, more than in this preview. I mean have a hard time figuring out the time period between FF #538, and the events of Civil War 3. It seems awfully quick for the guy to pick up the Hammer, become thor, and then already be apart of Iron Man's and SHEILD's tactics. A little fishy...

As for the "old English" topic, I always been annoyed with Thor speaking that way, not because of accuracy, or making sense. Its quite frankly, I don't have the intellectual capacity to understand WTF he’s saying :p And your talking to a college graduate... ah education these days.

Yeah... I'm curious how a new Thor came into play between FF and Civil War too. The time frame couldn'th have been that much, and whatever happened occured beneathy everyone's radar.

I think Thor almost needs his one one shot to explain that (as I would be suprised if they spent too much time explaining any single character in the main Civil War Book).

The worthiness clause is an interesting aspect as well. Whoever is carrying it, if it's not the original, has to be one heck of a guy. The number of people that have been worthy to pick up the hammer can be counted on one hand.

I suppose Donald Blake is the obvious answer though. Can't see from what little of him we've seem that worthiness was exactly exuding from the guy.

[Christopher O]

As for the "old English" topic, I always been annoyed with Thor speaking that way, not because of accuracy, or making sense. Its quite frankly, I don't have the intellectual capacity to understand WTF he’s saying :p And your talking to a college graduate... ah education these days.
I'm going to be that super-annoying guy who corrects everyone just for a minute. Thor's speech isn't Old English, but rather a variation of Early Modern. Old English wouldn't even be recognizable to most.

[XPac]

Maybe the vessel through which Thor exists is still in control, like in the (*shudder*) Thunderstrike days. The power of Thor is up for grabs, but you don't give up your personality. I haven't read Thor since his paramedic days, but maybe this destruction of Asgard that everyone keeps talking about caused him to retreat, or let whoever is worthy of wielding Mjolnir use the power of Thor as they choose since they're, y'know, worthy.

Either way, this much complaining over one panel's dialogue is a bit astounding.

I don't think the opinions being formed are just based on that one panel. From other books there's reason to believe he might have killed someone. And there's the issue of him being on the PRO side under Hills command at all.

There's enough of a mystery about it for people to be wondering what the heck is going on. I will agree there's not enough shown for people to really complain about the writing yet... but we're seeing something a bit weird and out of character and that's naturally going to get internet people talking. And if you're a Thor fan, specualtion that me may have even killed another hero makes it even more a hot topic.

[XPac]

I have read plenty of Thor and Avengers, and the speech thing has always been my problem with the character, and I do understand wanting a character to retain qualities that you find endearing, but I just find the speech thing utterly absurd. Now, can you at least admit that it makes little sense for him to speak that way and always has?

From a historical standpoint it may not make sense. But I think it does from the standpoint of the writers.

They wanted Thor's speech to convey certain things which made him stand out. He was a god prince centuries old, and they wanted to convey a certain timeless nobility in his speech. Using the actual speech patterns of that region obviously wouldn't have been practical.

Having him use a more Shakespherean (or whatever it is) voice gave the character a uniqueness while expressing the character more effectively to the readers. If you're a comic book writer, that's more important than the historical accuracy of his dialogue, or at least that's what I would guess.

Was there a risk that readers might have trouble relating to him because of his language? Sure... but decades later, and the character is still effectively communicating in that manner so I can't agree it's proven any kind of problem.

[Christopher O]

From a historical standpoint it may not make sense. But I think it does from the standpoint of the writers.

They wanted Thor's speech to convey certain things which made him stand out. He was a god prince centuries old, and they wanted to convey a certain timeless nobility in his speech. Using the actual speech patterns of that region obviously wouldn't have been practical.

Having him use a more Shakespherean (or whatever it is) voice gave the character a uniqueness while expressing the character more effectively to the readers. If you're a comic book writer, that's more important than the historical accuracy of his dialogue, or at least that's what I would guess.

Was there a risk that readers might have trouble relating to him because of his language? Sure... but decades later, and the character is still effectively communicating in that manner so I can't agree it's proven any kind of problem.
Valid points, but I still don't like it, and personal taste is really what it comes down to, so let's just leave it at that, especially since we're not sure what the hell is up with Thor. ;)

[Wind-Breaker]

Considering a "death" is going to occur, I wouldn't be surprized if a good portion of the issue is gonna be dedicated to showing Iron Man or Spiderman questioning themselves...again. "Is it really worth it?", "Are we doing the right thing?" etc. I just got a feeling that this issue is going a depressing one, with the anti-guys licking their wounds, and the pro-guys questioning themselves. Even if doesn't have much action in it, overall it could be pivotal to the main plot.

[Arilou]

He is on the Pro-side. But Thor has never really been the "smiting" type. In fact, I've very rarely seen him kill at all. And, sure, making him talk normal English is more Norse-like.

Have you ever *read* the Sagas or even the viking poetry (like the Eddas)?

If anything they tend to be rather laconic, curt (but with a certain melody and cadence) early-modern flower english is probably the *least* similar way of speaking I can think of.

"You're all going down" is a horrible modernism, but it's closer than the elizabethean accent he used to be saddled with.

They wanted Thor's speech to convey certain things which made him stand out. He was a god prince centuries old, and they wanted to convey a certain timeless nobility in his speech. Using the actual speech patterns of that region obviously wouldn't have been practical.

I think it can actually be translated pretty well.

[XPac]

Considering a "death" is going to occur, I wouldn't be surprized if a good portion of the issue is gonna be dedicated to showing Iron Man or Spiderman questioning themselves...again. "Is it really worth it?", "Are we doing the right thing?" etc. I just got a feeling that this issue is going a depressing one, with the anti-guys licking their wounds, and the pro-guys questioning themselves. Even if doesn't have much action in it, overall it could be pivotal to the main plot.

I agree. I imagine we'll see ANTI guys obviously upset that they were beaten down, captured, and even killed. And I'll wager we'll have PRO guys being just as upset for the exact same reasons.

But around the middle of the story is where you go into the "Empire Strikes Back" phase where everything comes off dark and seemingly unsalvagable (though I suppose some PRO registration comic readers might feel differently). Things need to get dark in order for the heroes to start fight back from insurrmountable odds.

[XPac]

I think it can actually be translated pretty well.

Would it come off as German sounding? Not to be racially insenstive or anything but imagine given the time period when Marvel was making the character, they probably didn't wanna go there for one of their heroes.

[bulbasteve]

Would it come off as German sounding? Not to be racially insenstive or anything but imagine given the time period when Marvel was making the character, they probably didn't wanna go there for one of their heroes.

You mean........the 60s? I...just...WTF?!

[Wind-Breaker]

I agree. I imagine we'll see ANTI guys obviously upset that they were beaten down, captured, and even killed. And I'll wager we'll have PRO guys being just as upset for the exact same reasons.


Yeah I'm also wondering is why was Ben Grim shown in Civil War 3, but leaves the country in FF #539? If FF #539 was set after Civil War 3, then why would Grimm be leaving the country because the death of a guy he didn't know, and not the death of one of his fellow heroes? Its strange...

[ocelotrevs]

Bloody hell.
This is gonna be better than I thought.

[XPac]

You mean........the 60s? I...just...WTF?!

Even today let alone the 60's, I don't completely think a strong german accent doesn't = Badguy.

I don't blame anyone for WTF me for saying that, because it's pretty horrible to say but I DO nonetheless believe German and Russian accents often are associated with villianous characters in media.

And if you have a french character, they can come off as an arrogant sounding jerk. It's kind of the same thing.

There are these bad media stereotypes that haven't completely went away even today, let alone back then. Maybe I"m wrong and I'm just not giving comic readers enough credit, but I do think a German accent would not necessarily convey the same aspects they wanted the character to have because of the cultural bias the media has ingrained into american society over the years.

[Markavian]

OK, pro-reggers...talk your way out of this one:

According to Cable and Deadpool #31, Thor is the one responsible for killing one of the Anti-Reggers.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that Thor doesn't get completely wracked with remorse for this, and the Pro-Reg side doesn't completely condemn him for it, how can you justify the hypocrisy of ever bringing a truly evil supervillain back alive when the Pro-Reg side is willing to kill heroes over what amounts to a difference of opinion over a law? They're willing to kill a Goliath or Hercules or Falcon...but not a Zemo or Doom or Red Skull? Venom? Sabretooth? Whoever? They'll turn a blind-eye and grant "amnesty" to proven criminals and villains if they sign on. But will sanction lethal force against a man that's saved lives many times before, and until recently was anything -but- a criminal?

Explain to me how you can support a so-called "hero" that will kill a good man who happens to be breaking one controversial law, but let murderers, rapists, and thieves go to prison, or worse yet join them?

Or would you prefer that a good portion of the heroes of Marvel Earth take up the "Punisher" mentality full time?

And yes, the above is exactly why I'm hoping and praying this -isn't- really Thor. Because that would be tainting my -third- favorite Marvel hero almost beyond comprehension.
Thats what the Anti Regs have been doing. You cant attack police officers and expect not to have consequnses. Thor has always stood for Law and Order. How the Anti that dies bites it depends on if its an evil act or not. We'll have to wait and see how it goes down.

[XPac]

Thats what the Anti Regs have been doing. You cant attack police officers and expect not to have consequnses. Thor has always stood for Law and Order. How the Anti that dies bites it depends on if its an evil act or not. We'll have to wait and see how it goes down.

I'm not sure I agree with the notion of Thor standing for Law and Order. I think he respects it, but he also seemed pretty AGAINST law and order telling Thor and the Avengers how to do their business back in Busieks run.

He's no USAgent here... he does things HIS way and if that happesn to conflict with the US policy, it's their problem. Hell, it's a guy that outright took control of the world when he came to the conclusion he didn't like how human government did things.

[bulbasteve]

Even today let alone the 60's, I don't completely think a strong german accent doesn't = Badguy.

I don't blame anyone for WTF me for saying that, because it's pretty horrible to say but I DO nonetheless believe German and Russian accents often are associated with villianous characters in media.

And if you have a french character, they can come off as an arrogant sounding jerk. It's kind of the same thing.

There are these bad media stereotypes that haven't completely went away even today, let alone back then. Maybe I"m wrong and I'm just not giving comic readers enough credit, but I do think a German accent would not necessarily convey the same aspects they wanted the character to have because of the cultural bias the media has ingrained into american society over the years.

Aside from mentioning Nightcrawler or Colossus, Scandinavia =/= Germany.

[Ult. Fireboy]

That preview gave me the heck of chills! I almost cry seeing