I need some feedback...

[Joe Acro]

I've decided to make a history of the Marvel universe. So far, I've written a page. I just want to see what everyone thinks:

The universe was originally a Cosmic Egg, a sphere of disorganized, dense, and compact primordial matter. A Big Bang occurred, spreading the matter outwards. Eventually some of this matter condensed into planets and stars. One of these planets was named Taa, a world akin to a paradise. In its time, it was more advanced than any other planet. As all matter began to contract into a new Cosmic Egg, located at the center of the universe, civilizations were being killed by resultant radiation. Taa was one of the last civilizations remaining. Galan, a space exploring humanoid from Taa, was sent to search the cosmos for a way to save his home planet. He failed in this quest. The radiation killed off all but a small portion of the population of Taa. Knowing their deaths were inevitable, the survivors followed Galan to a glorious death, charging a spaceship straight into the Cosmic Egg. As the ship approached the Egg, the crew members began dying. Galan was the only one not to die, instead becoming filled with a strange energy. The essence of the dying universe, contained within the Cosmic Egg, preserved Galan and his ship through the tremendous gravitational forces and intense heat. The sentient essence contacted Galan, informing him that they would both die, but would be reborn in the upcoming universe, with Galan becoming the world-devouring Galactus. Shortly thereafter, the Cosmic Egg absorbed the space-farer into itself.

It is unknown how much time passed between the death of that universe and the creation of the current 616 reality. Eventually, though, the Cosmic Egg experienced another Big Bang, thus creating the universe and starting
The History of the Marvel Universe

Eternity, the representation of life, the sentient essence of this new universe, and the embodiment of space; Death, the representation of mortality; Infinity, the embodiment of the fullness of space; Oblivion, the embodiment of the absence of space; Lord Chaos, the embodiment of disorder, randomness, and formlessness; and Master Order, the embodiment of uniformity, orderliness, and immutability were created in this Big Bang and what had been Galan was hurled outwards with the rest of the matter in a recreated version of his spacecraft. Galan drifted in his starship for eons, transforming into Galactus. (The sentience of the old universe is said is be the previous incarnation of Eternity. Let it also be mentioned that The Living Tribunal has existed since the beginning of the multiverse, which was created long before the current 616 universe.)

Shortly after the birth of the universe, the cosmic entities created offspring. Eternity, Infinity, and the Celestial Axis (the pattern of organic energy threaded through the universe) gave birth to Eon, a somewhat physical entity normally resembling a tree with humanoid features. Eon's function throughout known history has been to nurture the evolution of sentient life within the universe and maintain the condition of the universe so that it continues to contribute to life. Lord Chaos and Master Order created the powerful entity the In-Betweener. It was created to be their agent, to assist in keeping the concepts of death and life, good and evil, reality and illusion, logic and emotion, god and man, and existence and nothingness in balance, in keeping with the overall purpose of Lord Chaos and Master Order. (It should be noted that Ego the Living Planet claims to have been born shortly after The Big Bang. However, given his birth galaxy still exists, this is unlikely.)

On various planets throughout the universe, life eventually began to emerge. Life gave way to civilization. Some of the earliest intelligent humanoid races created extraordinary, high-level civilizations. Members of these races comprise the Elders of the Universe, each having found the means to become immortal and each having mastered advanced technology, which allowed them to leave their home planets. Each of the Elders are from different races and are the last of whichever forgotten race they belonged to. This makes none of them biologically related, making later claims of being “brothers” figurative. Discovering that they would lose the will to live and subsequently surrender their immortality without some pastime to pursue, each Elder took up such a pastime. Their pastimes make them as unique as their heritage.

[Joe Acro]

Nothing, huh? Well, I really just wanted to make sure my Ego comment is accurate and that starting with the Elders after The Big Bang stuff is okay.

[brainfloat]

Looks correct to me, but I'm not totally sure, you can cross reference it at Marvel's website.

Here's a direct link:
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

[blackphoenix]

The sentient essense of the previous Universe that contacted and saved Galen/Galactus was retconned into a previous incarnation of the Phoenix Force during that whole "human Galactus" sttory in Fantastic Four

[Joe Acro]

So there are two stories I need to include around the Big Bang? Odd. I guess I'll get to it.

The sentient essense of the previous Universe that contacted and saved Galen/Galactus was retconned into a previous incarnation of the Phoenix Force during that whole "human Galactus" sttory in Fantastic FourI just checked this and, apparently, as marvel.com puts it, "In the dying moments of the previous universe, the Force saved all existence from eternal damnation, enabling Eternity to preserve the humanoid Galan, ensuring his re-creation as Galactus." I'm not sure exactly how the Force could preserve existence or how that's what enables the previous Eternity to do what he did, but I suppose I have to mention this.

[Joe Acro]

I have added the Dweller-in-Darkness' and Phoenix Force's roles in Galan's universe. However, I'm having difficulty understanding the Big Bang story involving Reed Richards that is mentioned at marvel.com. I am also having difficulty understanding whether the two Big Bang events talked about are in continuity, considering Wikipedia and two other people's histories have no mention of those events.:confused: The one with Sise-Neg may fit in, because it could simply be stated that he was the springboard for the Big Bang. I would like a little clarification.

[1WEBHEAD]

Did some one say......




FEEDBACK?!?!

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/730/730918/matthew-atherton-20060906023142859.jpg


Sorry guys, I read the title and couldn't help it.... :D

[LordEd1976]

Did some one say......




FEEDBACK?!?!

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/730/730918/matthew-atherton-20060906023142859.jpg


Sorry guys, I read the title and couldn't help it.... :D

Shame on you! Go sit in the corner and think about what you did!

[1WEBHEAD]

Yes sir...... (Walks toward empty trash can and turns in costume and walks away with a depressed look.):(

[Joe Acro]

I knew that was going to happen when I put that in the title...

[1WEBHEAD]

I knew that was going to happen when I put that in the title...

http://www.worldtalkradio.com/show/68/session/Stan%20Lee.jpg

Stan Lee::Joe, that oppurtunity was too good to pass up.:D Excelsior!!!!:cool: :p

[Jeff-E]

I wouldn't worry so much about the whole "phoenix-force" being the previous universe thing as not everything should revolve around that damn bird. Also because it was also stated that the infinity gems were basically the previous Eternity, and I'd try to throw in the Celestials also.... Dude Marvel has a convoluted history, so good luck with this its an interesting read and I hope you keep it up.

[Joe Acro]

Also because it was also stated that the infinity gems were basically the previous Eternity...
The Infinity Gems were the previous Eternity? This is what Wikipedia has to say on the matter:
What remained unknown to all but the most powerful cosmic beings is the fact that the gems were actually the remains of a once omnipotent being whose domain was any and all realities. However, this great being was utterly alone. Attempting to make other life forms, the being went on to create a horde of creatures. However, having no concept of good or evil, the beings turned out to be malevolent demonic beasts. Seeing its error, the being destroyed its flawed creations, and once again alone, and unable to bear it, the being committed suicide. However, such power does not easily dissipate, and from its core arose the Infinity Gems. This does not seem to say that the Infinity Gems came from Eternity and also doesn't really fit nicely into any part of time. Obviously, it's after The Big Bang. Maybe this being was one of the Elders? I don't know...
...and I'd try to throw in the Celestials also....The next beings to be mentioned after the Elders will be the Watchers. I could mention the Celestials, but their origin has yet to be established. In relation to them, the Black Galaxy's origin hasn't really been stated, though I know it wasn't there at the beginning of the universe. In fact, the Celestials don't really do anything of note until races such as the Kree and Skrulls appear. Help in regards to the Celestials would be appreciated.

Dude Marvel has a convoluted history, so good luck with this its an interesting read and I hope you keep it up.Thanks for the vote of confidence. I will keep it up, amidst everything else I have to do. And maybe the knowledge of the know-alls here at CBR can assist. I know this can't be successfully done alone.

[Lord S]

Regarding the Phoenix Force stuff...I'm just as irked as practically everyone else about it sticking it's beak in all matters cosmic, but it's been established as canon, so I guess we really have no choice but to accept it, for now. Even Galactus' bio in the 'Nova Corps Files' makes direct reference to the canary. If you check out 'Adventures of X-Men' #12, you'll see what happens. It's all kind of...stupid.

AFAIK, the Infinity Gems were once a being called Nemesis...not a previous Eternity. I don't know what issues or story it was involved in.

Also, don't put too much stock into Wikipedia...you have to remember it's all user-submitted info there. Something not being mentioned there means nobody's thought to add it yet...not that it didn't happen.

Great start on your 'History', BTW.

[Joe Acro]

AFAIK, the Infinity Gems were once a being called Nemesis...not a previous Eternity. I don't know what issues or story it was involved in.

Do you happen to know where this Nemesis fits into continuity? Considering he was lonely it could either have been early in the universe and he was the only living being (which would be hard to explain) or it happen a bit later on and he's someone more like the Elders. Maybe there's another option I haven't grasped yet.

[Joe Acro]

Here's the update:

The universe was originally a Cosmic Egg, a sphere of disorganized, dense, and compact primordial matter. A Big Bang occurred, spreading the matter outwards. Eventually some of this matter condensed into planets and stars. One of these planets was named Taa, a world akin to a paradise. In its time, it was more advanced than any other planet. The Dweller-in-Darkness of that universe fractured the M'Kraan Crystal (The Nexus of All Realities) in order to cause the destruction of the universe and feast on the many peoples' related fears. The Phoenix Force, a universal force of life, used telepathy to reach all the minds of the universe and unite them in peace, denying the Dweller his feast and, thus, foiling his plan.

However, the destruction of the universe could not be stopped. As all matter began to contract into a new Cosmic Egg, located at the center of the universe, civilizations were being killed by resultant radiation. Taa was one of the last civilizations remaining. Galan, a space exploring humanoid from Taa, was sent to search the cosmos for a way to save his home planet. He failed in this quest. The radiation killed off all but a small portion of the population of Taa. Knowing their deaths were inevitable, the survivors followed Galan to a glorious death, charging a spaceship straight into the Cosmic Egg. As the ship approached the Egg, the crew members began dying. Galan was the only one not to die, instead becoming filled with a strange energy. The essence of the dying universe, contained within the Cosmic Egg, preserved Galan and his ship through the tremendous gravitational forces and intense heat. The sentient essence contacted Galan, informing him that they would both die, but would be reborn in the upcoming universe, with Galan becoming the world-devouring Galactus. Shortly thereafter, the Cosmic Egg absorbed the space-farer into itself.

It is unknown how much time passed between the death of that universe and the creation of the current 616 reality. Eventually, though, the Cosmic Egg experienced another Big Bang, thus creating the universe and starting
The History of the Marvel Universe

Eternity, the representation of life, the sentient essence of this new universe, and the embodiment of space; Death, the representation of mortality; Infinity, the embodiment of the fullness of space; Oblivion, the embodiment of the absence of space; Lord Chaos, the embodiment of disorder, randomness, and formlessness; and Master Order, the embodiment of uniformity, orderliness, and immutability were created in this Big Bang. The Dweller-in-Darkness and Phoenix Force were both recreated. The being that been Galan was hurled outwards with the rest of the matter in a recreated version of his spacecraft. Galan drifted in his starship for eons, transforming into Galactus. (The sentience of the old universe is said is be the previous incarnation of Eternity. The M'Kraan Crystal was either recreated at the Big Bang or transported itself into the new universe. Let it also be mentioned that The Living Tribunal has existed since the beginning of the multiverse, which was created long before the current 616 universe.)

[Norrin Radd]

To make it more clear, I would differentiate between the old universe and the new universe. At the beginning you say "the universe" but it's not our universe, so it's rather confusing, imo.

[Joe Acro]

Does this work better?

"The universe before the one known now was originally a Cosmic Egg, a sphere of disorganized, dense, and compact primordial matter."

[Joe Acro]

I've recently added the Watchers and their early history:

On one world, the race later known as the Watchers developed. The Watchers, over time, became immensely powerful beings. Each Watcher possesses vast mental, physical, and energy-manipulative powers. These include telepathy, which they can used to scan every known form of sentient life, send thoughts into any brain, and make those brains see the Watchers however they wish to be seen; conversion of their bodies into energy, which is done largely for teleportation through space; mental manipulation of electromagnetic energy; and immortality, through the use of what have been called delta-rays. (It should be noted that there are noticeable age differences between some Watchers.)

After developing and mastering these powers, the Watchers's High Tribunal discussed whether they should share their advanced technology with more primitive civilizations. One Watcher, named Ikor, argued it was their duty to assist other races. The leader of the Tribunal, Emnu, disagreed, believing that they owed nothing to the other races, who were clearly not their equals. Uatu, Ikor's son, persuaded the majority of the Tribunal to follow his father's suggestion.

Four Watchers, including Uatu, traveled from the planet in search of another race. The civilization they found was that of the Prosilicans, located on the planet Prosilicus. The Watchers offered knowledge of atomic energy, which was basic knowledge for the Watchers, and Prosilicans accepted. The Watchers tutored them for months on how to use the energy to advance their technology. Their mission accomplished, the Watchers left. Unfortunately, this introduction of atomic energy led to the development of nuclear weaponry, initially used in internal war. Next, the Prosilicans engaged in war with another alien race, a war which left them near extinction. When the Watchers returned years later to see the fruit of their work, they were horrified with the terrible results. The Watchers decided never to interfere with the affairs of another race, developing a code of ethics that includes passive observation and strict non-interference. A Watcher cannot even save a being dying at its feet.

Soon after the experiment and the establishment of the code, the Watchers left their home planet, scattering themselves across the cosmos, each choosing a solar system to observe. By this time, Earth's solar system had developed and Uatu chose this to observe. Thus, the Watchers set out, for the sake of knowledge, to record everything they saw mentally and inform each other of their findings.

[Joe Acro]

From here, I'd like to talk about the Skrulls. However, the Celestials play a role in their development. This is a problem considering I don't have the recent Celestials Handbook entry with me, which I believe tells of their early appearances within the universe's history. Can anyone help?

[ednemo]

I would utilize numbers. Say 616 Universe for the current and hen hunt down the number of the original. Send some creators the question and let them give you the number of the original UNiverse....maybe 1. I dunno. Cause everyone knows 616...right?

[Joe Acro]

I don't think Galan's universe has a different number.

And now I just thought about what if Galan didn't make the choice to go into the Cosmic Egg in one universe. It has been established that there's a Galactus in every universe, right?

[Lord S]

Do you happen to know where this Nemesis fits into continuity? Considering he was lonely it could either have been early in the universe and he was the only living being (which would be hard to explain) or it happen a bit later on and he's someone more like the Elders. Maybe there's another option I haven't grasped yet. Hopefully this contains some answers: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm

I didn't read it.

[pmpknface]

I don't know if you've seen this or not but it may prove helpful:
http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_shield/timeline/Part_I.html

Also, check out back issues of MARVEL SAGA.

[Joe Acro]

Hopefully this contains some answers: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm

I didn't read it.
I that doesn't really say where Nemesis fits in. "Many millenia ago." I'll mention him somewhere.

I don't know if you've seen this or not but it may prove helpful:
http://www.starnet-database.com/dbas...ne/Part_I.html

Also, check out back issues of MARVEL SAGA.
That is a helpful site, in some cases. Even it doesn't mention the origin of the Celestials. Does primitive mankind really appear before the advanced Skrull?

I don't happen to have access to Marvel Saga. Does it actually cover most of this?

[pmpknface]

That is a helpful site, in some cases. Even it doesn't mention the origin of the Celestials. Does primitive mankind really appear before the advanced Skrull?
Not sure, maybe. I haven't had the time to read ALL of the info on that site.

I don't happen to have access to Marvel Saga. Does it actually cover most of this?

Well, it really covers stuff that happens later in time I guess. Marvel Saga was a 25 issue run that more or less told the complete history of the MU in chronological order. I'm not sure where it starts, but I'm sure it's gotta be a little helpful.

[Joe Acro]

Okay. I've included Sise-Neg, Nemesis, Ego, and early Galactus. I warn you that this entry is long. In Word, without 1" margins, it's about 2.5 pages.

The universe before the one known now was originally a Cosmic Egg, a sphere of disorganized, dense, and compact primordial matter. A Big Bang occurred, spreading the matter outwards. Eventually some of this matter condensed into planets and stars. One of these planets was named Taa, a world akin to a paradise. In its time, it was more advanced than any other planet. The Dweller-in-Darkness of that universe fractured the M'Kraan Crystal (The Nexus of All Realities) in order to cause the destruction of the universe and feast on the many peoples' related fears. The Phoenix Force, a universal force of life, used telepathy to reach all the minds of the universe and unite them in peace, denying the Dweller his feast and, thus, foiling his plan.

However, the destruction of the universe could not be stopped. As all matter began to contract into a new Cosmic Egg, located at the center of the universe, civilizations were being killed by resultant radiation. Taa was one of the last civilizations remaining. Galan, a space exploring humanoid from Taa, was sent to search the cosmos for a way to save his home planet. He failed in this quest. The radiation killed off all but a small portion of the population of Taa. Knowing their deaths were inevitable, the survivors followed Galan to a glorious death, charging a spaceship straight into the Cosmic Egg. As the ship approached the Egg, the crew members began dying. Galan was the only one not to die, instead becoming filled with a strange energy. The essence of the dying universe, a lonely omnipotent entity named Nemesis that was contained within the Cosmic Egg, preserved Galan and his ship through the tremendous gravitational forces and intense heat. Nemesis contacted Galan, informing him that they would both die, but would be reborn in the upcoming universe, with Galan becoming the world-devouring Galactus. In truth, Nemesis was committing suicide out of loneliness. Shortly after that encounter, the Cosmic Egg absorbed the space-faring man from Taa into itself.

It is unknown how much time passed between the death of that universe and the creation of the current 616 reality. Eventually, though, the Cosmic Egg experienced another Big Bang, caused when time-traveling sorcerer Sise-Neg released all his magical energy inside the Egg. This gave way to a new universe and started
The History of the Marvel Universe

Eternity, the representation of life, the sentient essence of this new universe, and the embodiment of space; Death, the representation of mortality; Infinity, the embodiment of the fullness of space; Oblivion, the embodiment of the absence of space; Lord Chaos, the embodiment of disorder, randomness, and formlessness; and Master Order, the embodiment of uniformity, orderliness, and immutability were created in this Big Bang. Nemesis's essence was shattered into gems, each representing a gift he possessed: Power, Time, Reality, Space, Mind, and Soul. The Dweller-in-Darkness and Phoenix Force were both recreated. The being that been Galan was hurled outwards with the rest of the matter in a recreated version of his spacecraft. Galan drifted in his starship for eons, transforming into Galactus. (The sentience of the old universe is said is be the previous incarnation of Eternity. The M'Kraan Crystal was either recreated at the Big Bang or transported itself into the new universe. Let it also be mentioned that The Living Tribunal has existed since the beginning of the multiverse, which was created long before the current 616 universe.)

Shortly after the birth of the universe, the cosmic entities created offspring. Eternity, Infinity, and the Celestial Axis (the pattern of organic energy threaded through the universe) gave birth to Eon, a somewhat physical entity normally resembling a tree with humanoid features. Eon's function throughout known history has been to nurture the evolution of sentient life within the universe and maintain the condition of the universe so that it continues to contribute to life. Lord Chaos and Master Order created the powerful entity the In-Betweener. It was created to be their agent, to assist in keeping the concepts of death and life, good and evil, reality and illusion, logic and emotion, god and man, and existence and nothingness in balance, in keeping with the overall purpose of Lord Chaos and Master Order. (It is presumed, since the Celestials occasionally do work for Eternity, that it created them during this time.)

Eventually, planets began to form in this universe. One planet, located in what would later be titled the Black Galaxy, developed differently from the rest. Approximately 4165 meters in diameter, it developed consciousness and the ability to move on its own. It acquired features like a standard creature, such a face and organs. It also had the ability to create beings of its own substance, later used to conquer other worlds, and could gain sustenance by eating other planets. This being would come to call itself Ego, the Living Planet.

On various planets throughout the universe, later in history, life began to emerge. Life gave way to civilization. Some of the earliest intelligent humanoid races created extraordinary, high-level civilizations. Members of these races comprise the Elders of the Universe, each having found the means to become immortal and each having mastered advanced technology, which allowed them to leave their home planets. Each of the Elders are from different races and are the last of whichever forgotten race they belonged to. This makes none of them biologically related, making later claims of being “brothers” figurative. Discovering that they would lose the will to live and subsequently surrender their immortality without some pastime to pursue, each Elder took up such a pastime. Their pastimes make them as unique as their heritage.

On one world, the race later known as the Watchers developed. The Watchers, over time, became immensely powerful beings. Each Watcher possesses vast mental, physical, and energy-manipulative powers. These include telepathy, which they can used to scan every known form of sentient life, send thoughts into any brain, and make those brains see the Watchers however they wish to be seen; conversion of their bodies into energy, which is done largely for teleportation through space; mental manipulation of electromagnetic energy; and immortality, through the use of what have been called delta-rays. (It should be noted that there are noticeable age differences between some Watchers.)

After developing and mastering these powers, the Watchers's High Tribunal discussed whether they should share their advanced technology with more primitive civilizations. One Watcher, named Ikor, argued it was their duty to assist other races. The leader of the Tribunal, Emnu, disagreed, believing that they owed nothing to the other races, who were clearly not their equals. Uatu, Ikor's son, persuaded the majority of the Tribunal to follow his father's suggestion.

Four Watchers, including Uatu, traveled from the planet in search of another race. The civilization they found was that of the Prosilicans, located on the planet Prosilicus. The Watchers offered knowledge of atomic energy, which was basic knowledge for the Watchers, and Prosilicans accepted. The Watchers tutored them for months on how to use the energy to advance their technology. Their mission accomplished, the Watchers left. Unfortunately, this introduction of atomic energy led to the development of nuclear weaponry, initially used in internal war. Next, the Prosilicans engaged in war with another alien race, a war which left them near extinction. When the Watchers returned years later to see the fruit of their work, they were horrified with the terrible results. The Watchers decided never to interfere with the affairs of another race, developing a code of ethics that includes passive observation and strict non-interference. A Watcher cannot even save a being dying at its feet.

Soon after the experiment and establishment of the code, the Watchers left their home planet, scattering themselves across the cosmos, each choosing a solar system to observe. By this time, Earth's solar system had developed and Uatu chose this to observe. Thus, the Watchers set out, for the sake of knowledge, to record everything they saw mentally and inform each other of their findings.

Sometime shortly after these events, the Watcher Ecce observed Galan's spaceship crash onto an unnamed planet and Galan exit the ship as a being of raw energy. Learning vast power was growing within and discovering that the being within would one day need to consume planets to sustain itself, Ecce questioned whether he should kill the being or not. In the end, he decided to abide by the cod of non-interference, though he wished to continue monitoring the ship.

[Joe Acro]

Shortly thereafter, Galan relaunched his ship and ejected the dead bodies of his previous companions into the void of space. He created a suit of armor for himself, which would regulate his awesome power, and named himself Galactus. Afterwards, he converted his spacecraft into a giant incubation chamber, where he slept for many centuries, transforming into his current form. The ship eventually drifted into the orbit of Archeopia. Denizens of the planet scanned the ship, discovered that vast power awaited within, and determined to leave the vessel alone.

Interstellar war soon broke out in that solar system, however. The enemies of Archeopia mistook Galactus's ship for powerful weapon and fired upon it. Galactus emerged unphased and quickly slaughtered both forces in the war. He then consumed the energies of Archeopia, absorbing them into himself. Fortunately, one small fleet of Archeopians was able to escape. Galactus then decided to create a world superior to any other. It took millenia, including many breaks for the replenishment of his energy, but Galactus eventually finished Taa II, a large starbase/world engulfing the entire solar system. This became his new home.
And that's all I have right now.

[Alphan76]

I thought the Infinity Gems were essentially the remnants of God?
Man, I can't keep track of all the changes they make.
:D Damn, Joe Acro, you've got quite a task ahead of you!

[Joe Acro]

I thought the Infinity Gems were essentially the remnants of God?
Man, I can't keep track of all the changes they make.

Well, the Gems have been said to from a lonely god named Nemesis and, by Thanos, to be from God. I made the executive decision to say that Thanos is really referring to the Eternity-like near-god of the previous universe. It gets too complicated to explain otherwise.

[Alphan76]

So where did the power source in Marvel: The End come from? :D
Kind of seriously though, the fact that Thanos destroyed and recreated the universe...is that canon in the Marvel U. now? And the reason why 'dead means dead'?
Where are you getting this stuff about Nemesis and the Dweller?? That is all new to me.

[Joe Acro]

The Dweller stuff I found on Wikipedia and Marvel.com. Nemesis was introduced back when 616 was crossing with the Ultraverse (Earth 93060). Look at the link posted earlier in this thread if you want the details of the story (though I suspect I will need to cover such events eventually anyway).

The End is not considered canon. Events similar to those in the story did happen, though. Having not read the story, I can't say how this affects the history I've written so far.

[Joe Acro]

I've finished Part I and given it a spiffy title. I think I may have updated the prologue section, if it can be called that, since the last time. Given that it's 3.5 pages, I'll just link to what I've done so far.

The History of the Marvel Universe (http://dev.tomunist.org/what/HistoryofM.doc)

[Syzygy]

Well, the Gems have been said to from a lonely god named Nemesis and, by Thanos, to be from God. I made the executive decision to say that Thanos is really referring to the Eternity-like near-god of the previous universe. It gets too complicated to explain otherwise.

As I understand it, before there was a universe or Eternity, there was a being that was utterly Absolute. But, being totally alone, it annihilated itself out of boredom. It's energy swept out, creating the universe (616?) and everything in it. Pockets of that Great Being's power "coalesced" into the Infinity Gems. Don't know how to reconcile this with Galen/Galactus' universe preceeding 616.

Acro...I don't know if this history can be told consistently, because I don't think the story itself is consistent. Mind you, it has never bothered me that Marvel's cosmic stuff was inconsistent, because, at a certain level, stuff starts to be beyond human comprehension. Beginnings are always steeped in myth, anyway, and the creation of the universe is the ultimate beginning.

Did you get any religious training when you were a kid? It doesn't matter what religion, really. If you had asked the nuns in Sunday school (or whatever, as per your own religion), "If God is benevolent and all knowing, how come he created Lucifer knowing Lucifer would betray him?" you don't get a satisfactory answer. You get, "Humans can't comprehend God," or "God has a plan, and it's perfect, even if we think we see flaws."

Well, I don't believe in that stuff anymore. I believe in reason and science now. But in the Marvel Universe, there actually are gods, demons, and incomprehensible cosmic entities. If the history is contradictory, maybe it's just because mortals can't really hope to comprehend that cosmic stuff.

Did you ever read Arthur C. Clark's Childhood's End? One of the hyper-intelligent aliens who conquers Earth, Karellan, shows the human race the immensity of the cosmos, and comments, "The stars are not for man." Our race's intellect is too small.

Good luck with your project, though. Don't know if what I've said helps, confuses, or is just irrelevent.

Peace,
Syzygy

[Joe Acro]

There are conflicting accounts on where the Infinity Gems came from. In the Marvel/Ultraverse crossover, it was stated that there was once an infinity powerful being that killed itself out of boredom, his body shattering itself into gems. Thanos once stated that in the beginning there was only one being who encompassed everything-you might call him/it God. This being was lonely as he/it was the only entity in existence. So, it allowed itself to be destroyed, and the result was the creation of the universe. I don't want to say that God's death caused the universe and that God is the Infinity Gauntlet. So, I made the decision that Thanos's notion must be wrong. Otherwise, who would The Living Tribunal serve?

Besides Nemesis, give me an example of cosmic contradiction that we know is in continuity.

As for the religious question, I always assumed he created Lucifer so that the universe would exist as it does. Without him, God has, in effect, ruined his own creation.

In my history, nothing will be contradictory. If there are events in Marvel history that contradict other events (like the Sage matter, since you seem so adamant about it in the X-Books), I will try my hardest to make it make sense.

[Syzygy]

There are conflicting accounts on where the Infinity Gems came from. In the Marvel/Ultraverse crossover, it was stated that there was once an infinity powerful being that killed itself out of boredom, his body shattering itself into gems. Thanos once stated that in the beginning there was only one being who encompassed everything-you might call him/it God. This being was lonely as he/it was the only entity in existence. So, it allowed itself to be destroyed, and the result was the creation of the universe. I don't want to say that God's death caused the universe and that God is the Infinity Gauntlet. So, I made the decision that Thanos's notion must be wrong. Otherwise, who would The Living Tribunal serve?

Besides Nemesis, give me an example of cosmic contradiction that we know is in continuity.

Well, since I always take the cosmic stuff with a grain of salt, I really don't bother to keep track of them. Phoenix, maybe?

As for the religious question, I always assumed he created Lucifer so that the universe would exist as it does. Without him, God has, in effect, ruined his own creation.

God creating the universe in it's present form is where the contradiction comes from. You have a benevolent God creating a world full of pain, tragedy, and horror. Theologians call this "The Problem of Evil" and have been debating it for centuries; since God is also omnipotent, presumably, he could have created a universe without evil and horror....

In my history, nothing will be contradictory. If there are events in Marvel history that contradict other events (like the Sage matter, since you seem so adamant about it in the X-Books), I will try my hardest to make it make sense.

As for why Sage gets in my craw, see here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=121729

Another strange thorn is the "sliding scale". Just when did the current heroic age begin? Certain heroes seem to age more slowly or not at all, so for them, this isn't a problem (Captain America, Nick Fury, Dr. Strange, Thor, Wolverine). But others get continually "pushed back"; Xavier started out as a Korea vet, but now he's a Vietnam vet. One day, he'll be a Gulf War vet.

Which leads us to the problem of what to do about Magneto? He'll always be a WWII Holocaust victim. So Xavier, his buddy, keeps getting younger and younger. Maggie is already old enough to be his father. One day, he'll be old enough to be his grandfather. That means while Xavier is first coming in to his own telepathic power, Maggie will have been using his for decades....

Acro: I don't know what you can do about this. I don't know what Marvel can do about it.

Good luck with your project, again. I'll continue to return to your thread now again, with comments that hopefully do some good.

Peace,
Syzygy

[Joe Acro]

Well, since I always take the cosmic stuff with a grain of salt, I really don't bother to keep track of them. Phoenix, maybe?No one knows what Phoenix is. So, I'm sticking to what I know. Phoenix is a cosmic force and NOT Jean Grey. If someone has a recent Handbook entry about the Phoenix that wishes to verify/dispute this, feel free to.
God creating the universe in it's present form is where the contradiction comes from. You have a benevolent God creating a world full of pain, tragedy, and horror. Theologians call this "The Problem of Evil" and have been debating it for centuries; since God is also omnipotent, presumably, he could have created a universe without evil and horror....
This isn't really a discussion for here, but I do see flaws in that thinking. A universe without evil and horror would be both dull and more complicated. Population would get out of control, for one thing.
Another strange thorn is the "sliding scale". Just when did the current heroic age begin? Certain heroes seem to age more slowly or not at all, so for them, this isn't a problem (Captain America, Nick Fury, Dr. Strange, Thor, Wolverine). But others get continually "pushed back"; Xavier started out as a Korea vet, but now he's a Vietnam vet. One day, he'll be a Gulf War vet.

Which leads us to the problem of what to do about Magneto? He'll always be a WWII Holocaust victim. So Xavier, his buddy, keeps getting younger and younger. Maggie is already old enough to be his father. One day, he'll be old enough to be his grandfather. That means while Xavier is first coming in to his own telepathic power, Maggie will have been using his for decades....I hadn't thought about that particular point in regards to Magneto. At this rate he'll eventually be 100+ by the time he meets Xavier. So be it. At a certain point, the start of the current age of heroes, I will just stop providing dates.

Good luck with your project, again. I'll continue to return to your thread now again, with comments that hopefully do some good.

Thanks for the luck and please keep coming back. All comments/suggestions are welcome.