52#18(spoilers)

[Sean Walsh]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/WAcker/Week17/5218_12.htm

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/WAcker/Week17/5218_12.jpg

:eek:

Odd Man!

Yellow Peri!

The Inferior Five's Blimp!

Mind Grabber Kid!

And BEEFEATER!!!

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Wow. It seems like every obscure character in the DCU is gonna show up in 52. I mean, Lobo this week, Beefeater and Mind Grabber Kid next week? Wow, I had to whip out the encyclopedia of the DCU to find out about those guys, and I don't do that much.

[Thnikkaman]

Lobo's obscure?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Lobo's obscure?

These days he is. IMO

[Jack Zodiac]

Not so much obscure as unused. Beefeater and Oddman and Mind Grabber Kid. Now, they're obscure.

So Skeets is hanging out with Clark now, eh? I wonder what'll happen with him? He's got a personality from an AI at least as advanced as Red Tornado's, so he's bound to feel lonely now that Booster's gone, and he's a historical record of five hundred years from now. He's gotta' wind up somewhere.

[K'Nort]

MGK got used in 7S, at least. But Oddman and Beefeater.... when were they last used?

[titanfan]

I know they had a falling out--but Ralph/Bea/Guy/Mary are too busy to serve as pall bearers for one of their former teammates/friends? What a travesty.

[Donald M.]

So he's been dead for what, three weeks and they're just now having the funeral?

[Bat-Mite]

In the page before that one, Skeets explains it took him three weeks to find a city that didn't hate Booster Gold and people willing to be pall bearers.

[4DGlasses]

BEEFEATER!!! Basil Fawlty's alter ego! LOL!!!

Who the hell is Oddman and Yellow Peri?

[Kara Zor El]

:confused: BEEFEATER!!! Basil Fawlty's alter ego! LOL!!!

Who the hell is Oddman and Yellow Peri?
Odd Man is Clayton "Clay" Stoner, Above average hand to hand combatant; costume contains a variaty of clownish gags and gimmicks to disorient and defeat opponents, including a weighed tie, slippery oil spray, smoke-emiting gloves, and anesthetic gas.

1978 was his first appearence in CANCELLED COMICS CAVALCADE #2
When there was trouble in crime-ridden River City, this Private investigator would slip into his crazy costume and would turn up as the City's sole Superhero.

[Nintendite]

The Red Bee, Golden Arrow, Batman Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_Jones) and Mopee will all no doubt be making appearances later in the series as well.

[BoosterBronze]

Wait... they killed Beetle, Sue, and Booster... but BEEFEATER GETS TO COME BACK!?!?!?!!!!!!

:::seeths in fanboy rage::::

[Jack Zodiac]

The funeral was all a clever ploy by Didio to round up every C and D list character he could find and firebomb the church. One fell swoop.

[ChairthrowerLad]

1978 was his first appearence in CANCELLED COMICS CAVALCADE #2
When there was trouble in crime-ridden River City, this Private investigator would slip into his crazy costume and would turn up as the City's sole Superhero.

Right here, I say trouble right here in River City
With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P'
and that stands for 'pool'

...that was so much funnier in my head...then I realized its a Music Man reference...and therefore....existentially incapable of being funny...

[Nessor Sille]

Odd Man made a cameo during the "Hyper-Tension" arc in Superboy, way back in 1999.

[Sean Walsh]

Wait... they killed Beetle, Sue, and Booster... but BEEFEATER GETS TO COME BACK!?!?!?!!!!!!

:::seeths in fanboy rage::::

Well, he has to come back somehow in order to be brutally murdered, right? ;) :p

[Sean Walsh]

MGK got used in 7S, at least. But Oddman and Beefeater.... when were they last used?

Oddman has actually made a couple cameo appearances over the last few years. His appearance in Kesel & Grummett's SUPERBOY was his first usage since the original Ditko story, IIRC.

But Beefeater has not been seen since the final days of Giffen & DeMatteis' JUSTICE LEAGUE...

[Kid Kyoto]

Oddman has actually made a couple cameo appearances over the last few years. His appearance in Kesel & Grummett's SUPERBOY was his first usage since the original Ditko story, IIRC.

But Beefeater has not been seen since the final days of Giffen & DeMatteis' JUSTICE LEAGUE...

Another Giffen JLA character? I say dead in 3 issues.

[DMike]

Odd Man also appeared in the Villains United Special issue as one of the heroes defending Metropolis.

[Nessor Sille]

Interesting. A Google search revealed that the Yellow Peri has actually turned up in other media. She was on that syndicated Superboy TV series years ago.

That's sort of scary.

[Sean Walsh]

Another Giffen JLA character? I say dead in 3 issues.

My goodness, you're being quite generous... ;) :p

[Cassius6303]

Anyone else think that the Hearse driver looks like Michael?

Jamie

[Modi]

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/WAcker/Week17/5218_12.htm

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/WAcker/Week17/5218_12.jpg

:eek:

Odd Man!

Yellow Peri!

The Inferior Five's Blimp!

Mind Grabber Kid!

And BEEFEATER!!!

WHO????!!!!!!

[Joe Acro]

I have a few problems with that page. That British guy is talking stereotypically, not realistically. On top of that, he knows Booster is from five hundrder years in the future. I don't remember Booster ever announcing specifics. Also, why does Odd Man have no eyes?

What does Clark mean by hiding it behind a hyperlink? Is the Planet digital now? And why are Clark and Skeets in shadow? Was the colorist lazy or is it supposed to let us focus on the hearse leaving?

[Sean Walsh]

I have a few problems with that page. That British guy is talking stereotypically, not realistically. On top of that, he knows Booster is from five hundrder years in the future. I don't remember Booster ever announcing specifics. Also, why does Odd Man have no eyes?

What does Clark mean by hiding it behind a hyperlink? Is the Planet digital now? And why are Clark and Skeets in shadow? Was the colorist lazy or is it supposed to let us focus on the hearse leaving?

Uh, let's see.....

1) Beefeater wasn't a character to really be taken seriously. He was a Giffen/DeMatteis JLA creation...

2) I'll bet Booster's recent actions (and fate) resulted in the general public knowing all his details

3) 'Cause he never really did have eyes?

4) He says "behind the fold" too. So the Planet is obviously like all newspapers today: in print and online.

5) Yes.

[Ontir]

I love that Booster has "designated mourners" who got the gig from craigslist!

[ChairthrowerLad]

That British guy is talking stereotypically, not realistically.

The exaggeration is supposed to be funny...

[Jack Zodiac]

The exaggeration is supposed to be funny...

Humor!? In a comic book!?! How dare you?!

*shoots your avatar in the skull*

[Joe Acro]

Humor!? In a comic book!?!
That page obviously doesn't have the kind of humor I find funny. What you said, though was funny.:D

[SlightlyMad]

Odd Man!

Yellow Peri!

The Inferior Five's Blimp!

Mind Grabber Kid!

And BEEFEATER!!!

Who was the other pallbearer? Mr. Lincoln? Super-Abe?

Also, Question, Renee, Black Adam & Isis vs Intergang. :cool:

And Ralph as the new Fate? :cool: :cool:

[ChairthrowerLad]

That page obviously doesn't have the kind of humor I find funny.


Well, no one said it was ACTUALLY funny...It was originally written to be funny and fell a bit short...I think they were going for steriotipical(sp!) speech exaggerated...I don't know...lol

Humor!? In a comic book!?! How dare you?!

*shoots your avatar in the skull*

Jack, you just went all Maxwell Lord on my avatar!

[Ian J.N.]

Well, no one said it was ACTUALLY funny...It was originally written to be funny and fell a bit short...I think they were going for steriotipical(sp!) speech exaggerated...I don't know...lol
I'd like to think Beefeater only talks in a heavy cockney accent when he's on the clock, like it's part of his whole marketing strategy or something. :)

[ChairthrowerLad]

I'd like to think Beefeater only talks in a heavy cockney accent when he's on the clock, like it's part of his whole marketing strategy or something. :)

That is a little funnier...and such a JLE kinda element :p

[ChairthrowerLad]

Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man...I just read #18....

someone discuss it with me....


(SPOILERS)
http://www.comichole.com/img/items/115369199516346200.jpg


Ralph as the new Dr. Fate...awesome!

Booster's 20th century ancestor? awesomer!

[Damo]

Booster dead... and none of his friends at the funeral. None of the JLI. I can understand Ralph. But I can't see Bea, L-Ron, Power Girl, or any of the others giving him the cold shoulder like that. Hell, if nobody else, the Marvel Family should be there. There's no way they wouldn't be able to forgive him for his recent actions. That's why they're the Marvels. And I can't see Superheroes not letting him into the hero's graveyard - if a nobodies like Son of Vulcan are allowed in, then surely Justice League members (even ones fallen from grace) should be allowed in.

I'm getting mighty sick of the way the JLI is being treated.

Boo-urns.

[nerboo]

Ummm. Did I miss something? I've bveen reading the new Shadowpact book. Wasn't Shadowpact trapped in a dome over a small town for the entire year that 52 takes place?

[Cassius6303]

I have a few problems with that page. That British guy is talking stereotypically, not realistically. On top of that, he knows Booster is from five hundrder years in the future. I don't remember Booster ever announcing specifics. Also, why does Odd Man have no eyes?

What does Clark mean by hiding it behind a hyperlink? Is the Planet digital now? And why are Clark and Skeets in shadow? Was the colorist lazy or is it supposed to let us focus on the hearse leaving?

You know, I read that page and never caught the reference to the hyperlink till just now. I think that Clark is referring to DC's 52 website. For those that haven't been reading the site, there's a number of clues to things out there (look up the definitions of Sundoller's coffee sizes, FEX) but the most important thing is the site is supposed to be emulating the Daily Planet.

So expect something to be on the 52 website. Nothing there yet that I could find, however, it could be a hidden link.

Jamie

[ChairthrowerLad]

Ummm. Did I miss something? I've bveen reading the new Shadowpact book. Wasn't Shadowpact trapped in a dome over a small town for the entire year that 52 takes place?

I dont think that is the same year as the 52...lol who knows the Shadowpact book could be taking place two years later...

http://i2.tinypic.com/2ldyuqo.jpg


Edit: Cause I r html idiut...

[Steve Brady]

What, did you expect after Infinite Crisis that DC would be taking continuity more seriously, and using modern communications technology to effortlessly make sure that the writers and editors of various books were checking in with each other, while at the same time employing a top-down editorial strategy as a safety net?




Cause I did B)

[Joe Acro]

What, did you expect after Infinite Crisis that DC would be taking continuity more seriously, and using modern communications technology to effortlessly make sure that the writers and editors of various books were checking in with each other, while at the same time employing a top-down editorial strategy as a safety net?

That was my hope, too. However, with events such as those in Action Comics, Suoerman, and Spectre, I know that this just isn't the case. {sighs}

[ScottDMSimmons]

It's cool to see that Cincinnati (my hometown) and its neighbor, Dayton are getting some play lately in the DCU.

Maybe Booster won't be welcome in Valhalla (Hero's graveyard), but maybe he'll be lucky enough to wind up in our Spring Grove Cemetery. It's a large and beautiful place (practically a park), where people actually also come to eat lunch, spend time with their family, draw, and yes, even have weddings.

And if you ask me, DC missed a chance to show a glimpse of Union Terminal (train station/museum) in an overhead shot to introduce the location of Booster's funeral. Union Terminal was the inspiration for the Hall of Justice, and that could have been a fun Easter egg.

Scott

[jade_nova]

The Shadowpact adventure in here could take place sometime before they went into the dome. We don't know exactly when that happened.

[the spot]

The Shadowpact adventure in here could take place sometime before they went into the dome. We don't know exactly when that happened.


Considering superman is flying in issue 1 of Shadowpact, I have to assume its before the end of Crisis, which didn't make sense at the time I read it. Now its really doesn't.

[ChairthrowerLad]

In my mind it would have to happen after the 52....If I am right Shadowpact #4 is taking place in Oct. of 2007 or something like that...


OR

It doesnt matter, it's a comic book...

[SKJAM!]

If you look closely at the cover, it asks "When is the Shadowpact?", so someone at DC is aware there's something wonky going on there.

And perhaps Skeets is fudging the truth about just why it chose Cincinnati to bury Booster in, given what it finds there.

[blackphoenix]

OOH, do I get to start this? What an honor...[small review with spoilers aheaad]



Basically, some dude gets killed in a locked room and the helmet of Fate is near his liquid remains The helmet is found by good ol' Detective Chimp. He is now part of a detective agency callet Croatoan(they supposedly guessed the secret of Lost:they're THAT good). He locates Ralph Dibny in Paris for help on the mystery of how that dude got killed in a locked room. Ralph tells him to assemble his other team, the Shadowpact.

The funeral of Booster Gold is a big a joke as his recent superhero career, as his casket is covered with endorsement stickers(one for something called Vertigo...;) )and bourne by obscure superheroes(Yellos Peri, Beefeater, and some others I don't recognize). No other heroes attend save Clark Kent, who vows to tell the world of Booster's last moments of heroism. Skeets finds a young man milling about outside the church who felt he had to come to the funeral for some reason. Skeets scans the dude and finds out that he is a ancestor of Booster's. He tells the kid to come with him.

Meanwhile, Black Adam presents Question with an award for saving his life last week--Montoya doesn't attend cuz she is still guilty over killin' that kid. Black Adam, Isis, and Question go looking for Renee and find her drunk and getting it on with a local girl(this time, DC didn't force the artists to add on bras and panties--WHEE! partial nudity!!!) Adam is all pissed off that she didn't attend the ceremony and looks to strangle her, but Question stops him and directs Adam's anger toward the culprit behind the assassination attempt--Intergang. Adam vows to stop them(uh-oh...more head poppin'!)

Meanwhile, Detective Chimp,the Shadowpact, and Ralph meet at the pyramids. They conduct a magick ritual to find out what happened to that dead dude. The helmet contacts Ralph and tells him that the guy who put the helm on was killed because you have to endure trials and rituals to make yourself worthy of the power of Fate. It asks Ralph is he willing to endure all these things, and he agrees, walking off with the helmet. The Pact is stunned, cuz they didn't hear anything the helmet said.

Interesting issue for a change. And I loved the pulp look of the cover.

[Cayman]

I bought this to see what was up with Dr. Fate, but it was just a bunch of crap filler. What's the point of getting marquee name DC writers if they are going to produce work as worthless as this? And the art was inconsistent.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

so Ralph Dibny might be the new Dr. Fate? Nice.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

so Ralph Dibny might be the new Dr. Fate? Nice.

I think it might end up being Detective Chimp.

Which would be all kinds of messed up fun.

[DonC]

I am curious as to how DC is planning on explaining Shadowpact's appearence when their own title stated that they spent the 52 weeks this series is covering isolated in some small town behind a mystical barrier of blood.

[Cayman]

I am curious as to how DC is planning on explaining Shadowpact's appearence when their own title stated that they spent the 52 weeks this series is covering isolated in some small town behind a mystical barrier of blood.

They explained it already, sort of, in issue 3. Something about how it was one year for the Shadowpact but only a week or so for the outside world.

[SKJAM!]

I am curious as to how DC is planning on explaining Shadowpact's appearence when their own title stated that they spent the 52 weeks this series is covering isolated in some small town behind a mystical barrier of blood.

DC is curious about it too, judging by the cover crawl.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

They explained it already, sort of, in issue 3. Something about how it was one year for the Shadowpact but only a week or so for the outside world.


Ah...so they were hooked up with Superman and Wonder Woman fighting those Asgardian hordes or whatever from a while back but not for 1000 years though.

[Thnikkaman]

Who was the other pallbearer? Mr. Lincoln? Super-Abe?



Could be Abraham Lincoln Carlysle. Who I thought was dead, but, well, so was everyone else at one time or another.

[IamtheRock3]

acully in issue 1 didnt say they were in there for a year

but to them they were in there for a week..accept they were AGE a year

[Paul Newell]

I think it might end up being Detective Chimp.

Which would be all kinds of messed up fun.
It can't be, Detective Chimp as Dr. Fate was already addressed in the Day of Veangence Special. He can't get the helmet on. :)

[IamtheRock3]

Booster dead... and none of his friends at the funeral. None of the JLI. I can understand Ralph. But I can't see Bea, L-Ron, Power Girl, or any of the others giving him the cold shoulder like that. Hell, if nobody else, the Marvel Family should be there. There's no way they wouldn't be able to forgive him for his recent actions. That's why they're the Marvels. And I can't see Superheroes not letting him into the hero's graveyard - if a nobodies like Son of Vulcan are allowed in, then surely Justice League members (even ones fallen from grace) should be allowed in.

I'm getting mighty sick of the way the JLI is being treated.

Boo-urns.

in fairness a lot of the people he knew occupied

Powergirl..stuck in Kandor..if the continty right
Captain marvel- crazy
Batman globe trotting might of not heard of it, probally show up privately
majestic- might be dead
Ralph- Crazy
Sue- Dead
Max Lord- Ditto
Beetle- Ditto in tripplicate
Dr Fate- one he knew dead
Superman- showed up
Guy- not in this galaxy

Granted doesnt explain, All the marvles guys, Martin Manhunter, showing up or Fire..but fire been off lately

[Jack Zodiac]

Maybe Booster won't be welcome in Valhalla (Hero's graveyard), but maybe he'll be lucky enough to wind up in our Spring Grove Cemetery. It's a large and beautiful place (practically a park), where people actually also come to eat lunch, spend time with their family, draw, and yes, even have weddings.

Yeah, it's gorgeous. Just a shame that it's in Northside. :p

And if you ask me, DC missed a chance to show a glimpse of Union Terminal (train station/museum) in an overhead shot to introduce the location of Booster's funeral. Union Terminal was the inspiration for the Hall of Justice, and that could have been a fun Easter egg.

Scott

Yep. I'm sure whoever wrote those scenes, presumably Giffen, didn't really pick Cincinnati because they know how to draw the buildings or where some beautiful cemetaries would be. They probably went, "What the crappiest town in Mid-America that we can dump Booster's corpse?" Ding! Cincinnati!

[Jack Zodiac]

And perhaps Skeets is fudging the truth about just why it chose Cincinnati to bury Booster in, given what it finds there.

He's looking for Carters? Their meeting seemed like chance, though. Anyway, I might be wrong in remembering this, but wasn't one of Booster's suits (possibly his last one, 'cause Lord he went through plenty) genetically locked to him, like a Green Lantern ring? If so, maybe Skeets was looking for someone to pass the suit and tech on to. If not, 'cause I may be thinking of something else, it's just a cheap way to bring back a Booster Gold.

And it looks like they're revisiting Hunter's lab next week.

As for Ralph, I don't know about him becoming the new Dr. Fate. The idea of a mystical pilgrimage for him is a good one, though. The end result, however, could suck. I don't know if I could seriously accept Ralph Dibny as Dr. Fate.

And finally, Vic and Renee "team up" with Adam to tackle Intergang. Something's gotta' happen that still allows the Freedom of Power Treaty to come about OYL.

[Guts/Batman]

I bought this to see what was up with Dr. Fate, but it was just a bunch of crap filler. What's the point of getting marquee name DC writers if they are going to produce work as worthless as this? And the art was inconsistent.

About what I thought as well. I looked through this issue at the store seeing what was happening with Doc Fate as well but no luck. More Montoya being nothing more and a pitiful bitch and whining about it.

She is particularly annoying.

[Aaron King]

I think Montoya's handling her life better than I would. In the past year or two, she stepped out of the closet to her super-Catholic parents and was disowned by them. Her partner was killed and she couldn't bring herself to do anything about it, despite knowing the killer. Her girlfriend, part of the reason she came out, has now left her. I mean, I've turned into a mean and pitiful drunk seeking comfort in meaningless relationships over a lot less.

[Guts/Batman]

I don't disagree with you. I just find it very annoying.

[Will.S]

Very good issue, I particularly loved the Shadowpact portions as well as the newly forged team-up of Montoya/The Question and Isis/Black Adam.

I'm also digging the potential new Booster Gold, it's sort of starting fresh while passing on the legacy in a backwards manner so it should make for some really funny and cool interaction between Skeets and Daniel Carter. Perhaps we'll even see the new Blue Beetle team up with the new Booster Gold.

Not too sure how I would feel about Ralph as the new Dr. Fate though since I'd prefer those two characters to remain seperate but it all depends on how well it's handled within the upcoming issues and Ralph has kind of lost his way enough to be enticed by bringing back Sue in any way possible.

[Jack Zodiac]

Perhaps we'll even see the new Blue Beetle team up with the new Booster Gold.

This is the only slightly comforting thought I can dig out of this situation.

[Will.S]

This is the only slightly comforting thought I can dig out of this situation.
Yeah but it's hard to bring back Booster Gold in any other way that doesn't include teleporting him into the DCU via whatever divergent timeline he's in. Wasn't the original Mike Carter sent into a divergent path during Infinite Crisis anyway?

I remember one came back and contacted Batman in the batcave but being sort of different timeline wise.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

It can't be, Detective Chimp as Dr. Fate was already addressed in the Day of Veangence Special. He can't get the helmet on. :)

Oops...missed that one.

I think the Swans can go back to back.

(I have an Australian girlfriend, Olivia, who makes me watch the games at 2 am some times).

[Paul Newell]

Oops...missed that one.

I think the Swans can go back to back.

(I have an Australian girlfriend, Olivia, who makes me watch the games at 2 am some times).
I hope so! I want another trip to Melbourne. :)

[ChairthrowerLad]

Perhaps we'll even see the new Blue Beetle team up with the new Booster Gold.



*sigh of relief* all is well with the world once again :D

[Sean Walsh]

Just when I thought Yellow Peri, Beefeater, Mind Grabber Kid and Odd Man were as obscure as this issue was getting, they pulled in TIM TRENCH too! Wow.

(Trench was an old pre-Crisis Wonder Woman character, FYI - dabbled in Vertigo Swamp Thing and Hero Hotline post-Crisis........)

[Cassius6303]

Regarding the Shadowpact's appearance. As far as we know, ONLY Ralph interacted with them in this issue.....the look from the waiter as Ralph talked to Chimp was not one of spying (as some assume) but the fact that Ralph was talking to himself.

Someone's messing with Ralph's view of reality. He was the only one who noticed Sue being reanimated a few weeks back and he's the only one who sees this stuff now. He seems incredibly calm, cool, and collected when compared with where we saw him last.

I think there's more going on with this story than appears on the surface.

I also think it interesting that the Helmet ended up in Cain's house. Sandman fans should be able to make the connection quickly.

And the use of the Hanged Man and Death is significant in Ralph's story.

As for Daniel Carter? Someone pointed out that it could be HIM that Rip was accusing of messing up time.

Jamie

[Sean Walsh]

Regarding the Shadowpact's appearance. As far as we know, ONLY Ralph interacted with them in this issue.....the look from the waiter as Ralph talked to Chimp was not one of spying (as some assume) but the fact that Ralph was talking to himself.

Someone's messing with Ralph's view of reality. He was the only one who noticed Sue being reanimated a few weeks back and he's the only one who sees this stuff now. He seems incredibly calm, cool, and collected when compared with where we saw him last.

I think there's more going on with this story than appears on the surface.

I like this line of thinking - certainly explains the waiters at the restaurant bit - but one minor glitch:

Why would they've put that last line of the comic in there if, in fact, the Shadowpact aren't really there? (as in, why would Ralph's delusions acknowledge that Ralph's having other delusions.........unless that's part of messing with his reality)

[buckeye9167]

It's cool to see that Cincinnati (my hometown) and its neighbor, Dayton are getting some play lately in the DCU.
Scott

Ah the irony... the city that inspired the quote 'When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always 20 years behind the times.".... in "One Year Later"

[Cassius6303]

Sean,

That's the only whole in my theory. I want to go back and reread Ralph's story to see where he no longer interacts with the DCU proper. At this point, I'm doubting whether he and the other heroes actually stopped the ritual.

Jamie

[Steve Brady]

Re: Cain's house

There's two, right? One in the Dreaming, and one in the real world? And they're sort of the same?

[Steve Brady]

Also, I think even a French waiter might look askance at a talking chimp wearing a deerstalker.

[Cassius6303]

Steve,

It appears so. Makes sense that we've already seen the House of Secrets in the DCU during Villains United.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Mystery

Jamie

[Corrina]

I don't disagree with you. I just find it very annoying.

That's because the same thing keeps happening over and over. It's stagnation, not forward story-telling.

[skally19]

Regarding the Shadowpact's appearance. As far as we know, ONLY Ralph interacted with them in this issue.....the look from the waiter as Ralph talked to Chimp was not one of spying (as some assume) but the fact that Ralph was talking to himself.

Someone's messing with Ralph's view of reality. He was the only one who noticed Sue being reanimated a few weeks back and he's the only one who sees this stuff now. He seems incredibly calm, cool, and collected when compared with where we saw him last.

I think there's more going on with this story than appears on the surface.

I also think it interesting that the Helmet ended up in Cain's house. Sandman fans should be able to make the connection quickly.

And the use of the Hanged Man and Death is significant in Ralph's story.

As for Daniel Carter? Someone pointed out that it could be HIM that Rip was accusing of messing up time.

Jamie

it's that silouette dude from when ralph went crazy messing with him possibly

[ducklord]

I'm not sure I'm buying the "Shadowpact is all in Ralph's mind" notion. Wouldn't that mean that the first several pages with Detective Chimp et al at the non-Dreaming House of Mystery were all an illusion, too? An illusion with no one to see it but the reader? That seems like a big writing no-no to me.

It's good know that the Inferior 5 is still out there, though. I worry about those guys.

Mike.

[literally exaggerated]

Detective Chimps line about how they figured out the ending to Lost was hilarious

[Jack]

I wonder if Skeets is actually trying to use Daniel to bring Booster back somehow - switching him with Booster at the time of his death, perhaps. Would tie in with the possibility that Skeets is the one the arrows were pointing towards.

[Aaron King]

I'm pretty sure that Detective Chimp's t-shirt says "In Grodd We Trust" on the cover.

[Cassius6303]

I think Ralph's problems with Reality may go back a little further than just this issue.

Jamie

[Syphre Zero]

That's because the same thing keeps happening over and over. It's stagnation, not forward story-telling.
This looks to me like one of those cases where DC is flagrantly mishandling an openly gay character. OK, guys, we get it already - SHE'S A LESBIAN. WE KNOW. I feel like the writers have written "Montoya's a lesbian" on a Wiffle ball bat and are hitting me in the face with it. I dropped the new Blue Beetle after three issues for the same reason, only the Wiffle bat in that case had "Hispanic" written on it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not opposed to minority characters, I just wish they could be written with actual identities instead of being defined solely by their gender/race/creed/orientation/whatever.

[Jack Zodiac]

Detective Chimps line about how they figured out the ending to Lost was hilarious

The original like was supposed to be, "Ralph, we're the Croatoans. We figured out who Shakespeare's ghost writer was..."

[Jack Zodiac]

I'm pretty sure that Detective Chimp's t-shirt says "In Grodd We Trust" on the cover.

Yup. And in the picture of the Croatoans in the House of Myster, you see him wearing another shirt saying "Grodd is my" something.

[Jack Zodiac]

I think Ralph's problems with Reality may go back a little further than just this issue.

Jamie

I don't think Suecrow grabbing his leg was a mind-eff, though. Devem apparently saw it happen, too. Was there another time he seemed to be slipping with reality? Oh, and we still don't know who that trenchcoated figure from the end of Week Thirteen was, yet, either.

[Cassius6303]

I think that shirt was supposed to read "Grodd is my co-pilot"...which is pretty damned funny.

As for Devem seeing it. Well, if he's the mucking with Ralph, then that could just be a part of it. And I think that was Devem in his robe, not a trenchcoat.

I could be completely off-base with this and am just looking for clues where none exist but it's a definite possibility.

Jamie

[Jack Zodiac]

I think that shirt was supposed to read "Grodd is my co-pilot"...which is pretty damned funny.

You're right, it does look like that! I'm getting both of those, now. :)

[titanfan]

I dropped the new Blue Beetle after three issues for the same reason, only the Wiffle bat in that case had "Hispanic" written on it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not opposed to minority characters, I just wish they could be written with actual identities instead of being defined solely by their gender/race/creed/orientation/whatever.

He's a hispanic character growing up in a hispanic neighborhood/community. I actually think this is one of the things that makes this series a breath of fresh air.

[Cayman]

So who exactly is Terri Thirteen? And what relationship does she have with Traci Thirteen (Girl 13)? Has Terri been seen before? Is she Traci's older, Iguana-less sister?

[Ian J.N.]

I'm not sure I'm buying the "Shadowpact is all in Ralph's mind" notion. Wouldn't that mean that the first several pages with Detective Chimp et al at the non-Dreaming House of Mystery were all an illusion, too? An illusion with no one to see it but the reader? That seems like a big writing no-no to me.
Forget Shadowpact, I doubt that even the helmet talking was imaginary. Fate's whole spiel on the tenth age of magic was a) a subject unknown to Ralph, and b) accurate. There's even an image of Aquaman's transformation. I'm no Sigmund Freud, but aren't delusions supposed to be, er, delusional?

Good issue, but it's funny how the writers provide this whole big exposition for the reader and then imply a few pages later that it never happened.

[Jack Zodiac]

So who exactly is Terri Thirteen? And what relationship does she have with Traci Thirteen (Girl 13)? Has Terri been seen before? Is she Traci's older, Iguana-less sister?

I saw that, and ya' honestly got me. Dr. Thirteen's name was Terry. Maybe Terri Thirteen is his daughter? That would make more sense than her being Traci Thirteen's sister, since Terry was a reknowned detective and Tracy is not, giving Terri a stronger connection to him than her. Oh, and Traci Thirteen may also be the daughter of Terry Thirteen, which would men Terri Thirteen could possibly be both Terry Thirteen's daughter and Traci Thirteen's sister, depending on whether or not this is true.

Confusing yet!? :mad:

[Cayman]

I saw that, and ya' honestly got me. Dr. Thirteen's name was Terry. Maybe Terri Thirteen is his daughter? That would make more sense than her being Traci Thirteen's sister, since Terry was a reknowned detective and Tracy is not, giving Terri a stronger connection to him than her. Oh, and Traci Thirteen may also be the daughter of Terry Thirteen, which would men Terri Thirteen could possibly be both Terry Thirteen's daughter and Traci Thirteen's sister, depending on whether or not this is true.

Confusing yet!? :mad:

Maybe Superboy Prime retconned Dr. Thirteen back to life but when he did, his gender changed?

[Jack Zodiac]

Judd Winick, is that you? :p

[SlightlyMad]

If you look closely at the cover, it asks "When is the Shadowpact?", so someone at DC is aware there's something wonky going on there.


Also, the cover scrawl on Week Sixteen says:

"Who's she wearing!?!"

Two grammatical errors, or something stranger afoot? :confused:


Yup. And in the picture of the Croatoans in the House of Myster, you see him wearing another shirt saying "Grodd is my" something.

Strange thing I noticed was the picture has a caption of who is pictured "L-R" i.e. left to right, but it's actually in no way left to right. :eek: :confused:

Curiouser and curiouser...

[SKJAM!]

He's looking for Carters? Their meeting seemed like chance, though.

What I posit is that Skeets, who has a good but not perfect database of future events, "knew" that Booster Gold would be buried in Cincinnati, and that a new Booster Gold would appear shortly thereafter. It may not have known the specifics, however.

Anyway, I might be wrong in remembering this, but wasn't one of Booster's suits (possibly his last one, 'cause Lord he went through plenty) genetically locked to him, like a Green Lantern ring? If so, maybe Skeets was looking for someone to pass the suit and tech on to. If not, 'cause I may be thinking of something else, it's just a cheap way to bring back a Booster Gold.


I think Booster got his suit fixed up again the last time he was in the future (between Countdown and Infinite Crisis), and he may have skipped the genelock. Or his ancestor may be similar enough to fool the lock.


SKJAM!

[Corrina]

This looks to me like one of those cases where DC is flagrantly mishandling an openly gay character. OK, guys, we get it already - SHE'S A LESBIAN. WE KNOW.

To be fair, they're also doing the same thing with the alcoholism angle. You could just as easily say: SHE'S A DRUNK. WE GET IT.

[Will.S]

*sigh of relief* all is well with the world once again :D
Heh yeah, I'm wondering which one would be the older of the two though.

Looks like maybe Daniel Carter.

[Steve Brady]

Forget Shadowpact, I doubt that even the helmet talking was imaginary. Fate's whole spiel on the tenth age of magic was a) a subject unknown to Ralph, and b) accurate. There's even an image of Aquaman's transformation. I'm no Sigmund Freud, but aren't delusions supposed to be, er, delusional?

Good issue, but it's funny how the writers provide this whole big exposition for the reader and then imply a few pages later that it never happened.

Ah, but it does show that the DCU has reason to think Ralph is nuts.

Strange thing I noticed was the picture has a caption of who is pictured "L-R" i.e. left to right, but it's actually in no way left to right.

I'm going to assume that's a function of the house, and not an error in a tightly-produced weekly book B)

[SKJAM!]

By the by, have we ever seen this "Edogawa" fellow before?

I know the name is an homage to Edogawa Ranpo, the pen name of a famous mystery writer. (It's a twisting of "Edgar", after Edgar Allan Poe.) Same as Edogawa Conan, the star of Detective Conan/Case Closed.

[Phoney Bone]

The whole question of how Shadowpact is able to appear in this issue of 52 ... Rip Hunter writing "TIME IS BROKEN!" in huge letters all over the blackboard in his base/compound/headquarters/whatever might have something to do with it (funny how the cover crawls are similar to Hunter's wall phrases).

OR...

It doesnt matter, it's a comic book...

:D :D :D

[mybotisgone]

I just read this comic book and I liked it.:)

[Apathy Boy]

The dialogue between Ralph and Detective Chimp was terrific.

And yeah, so Skeets is quite obviously evil and I think we'll eventually find out he purposely set up Booster to fail and then die. Look at the job Skeets has done of assassinating Booster's character in this issue. Three weeks to arrange a funeral that was attended by a bunch of people who didn't even know Booster? In a city that just happened to contain Booster's descendant? Uh huh.

Skeets and Max Lord should start a club.

To be fair, they're also doing the same thing with the alcoholism angle. You could just as easily say: SHE'S A DRUNK. WE GET IT.Or SHE'S ANGRY. WE GET IT.

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like Montoya. Though I think she's much more entertaining in 52 than she was in GOTHAM CENTRAL, but maybe that's just because she hasn't taken over 52 yet.

Terri Thirteen might be someone who gets formally introduced in Azzarello's back-up feature in the upcoming TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, which is supposed to star Dr. Thirteen. But no one's mentioned a first name for Dr. Thirteen.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Or SHE'S ANGRY. WE GET IT.

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like Montoya. Though I think she's much more entertaining in 52 than she was in GOTHAM CENTRAL, but maybe that's just because she hasn't taken over 52 yet.


Women just do not spontaneously become hardcore, drunken, angry hate filled lesbians. I mean she hadn't even gone out on a date with me so the character change is completely spurious.


Terri Thirteen might be someone who gets formally introduced in Azzarello's back-up feature in the upcoming TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, which is supposed to star Dr. Thirteen. But no one's mentioned a first name for Dr. Thirteen.

His name is Dr. Terrence Thirteen, Ph.D.

[Apathy Boy]

His name is Dr. Terrence Thirteen, Ph.D.I meant to say that, in solicitations for and interviews about TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, DC and Azzarello have only said "Dr. Thirteen" will star in the book. They haven't specifically stated that they're talking about Dr. Terrence Thirteen, which leaves the possibility open that there's another doctor in the family, or that Terrence has been resurrected as a woman after his recent death.

[Will.S]

And yeah, so Skeets is quite obviously evil and I think we'll eventually find out he purposely set up Booster to fail and then die. Look at the job Skeets has done of assassinating Booster's character in this issue. Three weeks to arrange a funeral that was attended by a bunch of people who didn't even know Booster? In a city that just happened to contain Booster's descendant? Uh huh.

Skeets and Max Lord should start a club.
Are you serious or is this done in a sarcastic tone?

[TheTen-EyedMan]

I meant to say that, in solicitations for and interviews about TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, DC and Azzarello have only said "Dr. Thirteen" will star in the book. They haven't specifically stated that they're talking about Dr. Terrence Thirteen, which leaves the possibility open that there's another doctor in the family, or that Terrence has been resurrected as a woman after his recent death.

If they do that...that would suck.

Uh...when the hell did he die?

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"This looks to me like one of those cases where DC is flagrantly mishandling an openly gay character. OK, guys, we get it already - SHE'S A LESBIAN. WE KNOW. I feel like the writers have written "Montoya's a lesbian" on a Wiffle ball bat and are hitting me in the face with it. I dropped the new Blue Beetle after three issues for the same reason, only the Wiffle bat in that case had "Hispanic" written on it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not opposed to minority characters, I just wish they could be written with actual identities instead of being defined solely by their gender/race/creed/orientation/whatever."

Except that scene had NOTHING to do with Montoya's lesbianism. It had everything to do with her not being able to deal with what she had done and turning to meaningless sex as a desperate way to get some comfort.

If the character wasn't gay, then we would have had the same exact scene, only she would have been with a man instead. Her sexuality makes no difference in that case.

[skally19]

"This looks to me like one of those cases where DC is flagrantly mishandling an openly gay character. OK, guys, we get it already - SHE'S A LESBIAN. WE KNOW. I feel like the writers have written "Montoya's a lesbian" on a Wiffle ball bat and are hitting me in the face with it. I dropped the new Blue Beetle after three issues for the same reason, only the Wiffle bat in that case had "Hispanic" written on it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not opposed to minority characters, I just wish they could be written with actual identities instead of being defined solely by their gender/race/creed/orientation/whatever."

Except that scene had NOTHING to do with Montoya's lesbianism. It had everything to do with her not being able to deal with what she had done and turning to meaningless sex as a desperate way to get some comfort.

If the character wasn't gay, then we would have had the same exact scene, only she would have been with a man instead. Her sexuality makes no difference in that case.


yeah i agree. montoya has been around for awhile, and did anybody really care about her. and seriously, this is montoya falling back down into a spiral. like she was getting out of that, and seemed to be improving over the past few weeks, then she kills a kid, it affects her, and she regresses.

[Cayman]

I think the scene was meant to be pure titillation, just an excuse to show a naked harem girl.

[Jack Zodiac]

If they do that...that would suck.

Uh...when the hell did he die?

Seven Soldiers of Victory: Zatanna #1. First Mark Merlin, then Dr. Thirteen. At least he got an on-panel passing. Mark keeled over in a Gotham nursing home.

[Jack Zodiac]

I think the scene was meant to be pure titillation, just an excuse to show a naked harem girl.

Tit. Ah heh heh.

I don't mind. One, it's a naked harem girl. Two, it's part of Montoya's character. She fills the hole in her life with alcohol and sex. Were it the other way around and Vic had shot the kid and regressed into a gratuitous sex and drug frenzy, no one would've complained about Adam busting in on him pounding away at some chick. Of course, using sex and drugs to fill the void in his life isn't part of his character. It is, though, part of Renee's.

[shaxper]

Did they screw up the timetable for Shadowpact in this issue? I was pretty sure the team was stuck in the blood dome for nearly a full year prior to OYL, so how could they be appearing in 52 eighteen weeks after Infinite Crisis ended?

[Joe Acro]

Did they screw up the timetable for Shadowpact in this issue? I was pretty sure the team was stuck in the blood dome for nearly a full year prior to OYL, so how could they be appearing in 52 eighteen weeks after Infinite Crisis ended?
See earlier parts of the thread. I believe it's been stated that Ralph is delusional.

[Brother Zag]

...very little, but here you are...

In the "52" analysis, they threw around new names for the Helm of Nabu...Ralph D can now star in a new, pornographic (Vertigo?) book called "The Elongated Helm"...

and, to the tune of Kiss's "Doctor Love", Ralph's new tune:

They call me Dr Fate (Dr Fate!)
And I'm sure you can relate (Calling Dr Fate!)
It's these villains that I hate (Dr Fate!)
Call me Dr Fay-ate!

Ha cha cha

[Brother Zag]

IIRC, the Shadowpact's year wasn't really a year, but seemed like one inside the orb of blood thingy. Or something like that. But I think that was a way of explaining a mistake, I read something somewhere Bill Willingham said to that effect.

And I think the "Who is she..." refers to the Renee/Batwoman "history", and maybe the fact Montoya is hopping from bed to bed.

And as for Renee's behavior, and DC's handling of it: try living with an alcoholic... it get's pretty boring and repetitive: repeatedly broken promises, repeated lapses into destructive behavior, repeated disappointment. Addicts are boring and repetitive.

IMHO, the writers of 52 are successfully striking a balance between the reality of an alcoholic's lifestyle, and what can be portrayed in a comic without becoming heavy handed about it. If they made an effort to show every behavioral lapse a real alcoholic at Montoya's level would make, it would get much more repetitive and boring. Trust me.

This is sophisticated storytelling. The frustration you feel (and I feel you're misdirecting towards the writers) towards Montoya's portrayal should really be frustration towards the character at her behavior. The writers are doing this intentionally, and doing it pretty well.

Besides... what's wrong with seeing a couple of yummy looking lesbians nekked in bed together?

[shaxper]

See earlier parts of the thread. I believe it's been stated that Ralph is delusional.

So Ralph is imagining that Shadowpact was there? I don't know that I buy that. I'm not even sure I buy that the helmet wasn't talking to him.

IIRC, the Shadowpact's year wasn't really a year, but seemed like one inside the orb of blood thingy. Or something like that. But I think that was a way of explaining a mistake, I read something somewhere Bill Willingham said to that effect.

The second page of Shadowpact #1 definitely says "One year ago," but at least Willingham might be acknowledging that there was a mistake.

[snarkbunny]

The second page of Shadowpact #1 definitely says "One year ago," but at least Willingham might be acknowledging that there was a mistake.

Actually, when Shadowpact #1 came out, there was acknowledgement by Bill Willingham and the DC editorial staff that there was a continuity mishap resulting in a "confused" timeline. You can find the details around somewhere. And if you look around, you will also discover that #18 was probably scripted before the problem was discovered. In spite of that, there has been indications (based on comments made at various panels) made that DC/52 team/Willingham have figured out to address it and that we will be seeing an "in-comic" explanation.

Mind you, I'm enjoying Shadowpact and 52 and I don't particularly care that their continuity doesn't align. I'm much more interested in where the stories are going, and I would rather that they leave it alone than mess up the current storylines in what have been to date two enjoyable series. That being said, I trust the lot of them to come up with something good and I suspect that the Shadowpact tagline on #18 is the starting point.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Besides... what's wrong with seeing a couple of yummy looking lesbians nekked in bed together?

THat kind of talk will get you kicked out of Vermont. That's a country club state and they have rules.

Purloining this for my sig, if you don't mind.

[Corrina]

This is sophisticated storytelling. The frustration you feel (and I feel you're misdirecting towards the writers) towards Montoya's portrayal should really be frustration towards the character at her behavior. The writers are doing this intentionally, and doing it pretty well.



No, it's not. It's drawn out, bad storytelling.

You may like and that's your right and I have no problem with anyone liking it.

But it doesn't make it sophisticated in the least, anymore that my liking, say, Snakes on a Plane.

When a writer is telling a story that has a beginning, middle & and end like the one in '52' each scene has to push the story forward. That's called rising tension. Scenes which do not either push the character forward or the plot forward are not sophisticated, they're lacking in tension and failing to up the stakes. As Elmore Leonard says, "I try to write the parts people don't skip."

What Rucka is doing with Montoya's character arc is like writing a mystery where the detective visits the crime scene over and over and finds the same clue. We've established in the beginning of 52 that Montoya is a drunk, angry lesbian. Now it's just being repeated.

Fiction is not real life.

Storytelling is not about properly and carefully reporting events as they would happen in real life. That's a documentary.

Storytelling is about crafting a work that moves and rises, where the events have turning points. So far, what Rucka has, in storytelling terms, is a sagging middle. There's nothing sophisticated about that.

[Jack Zodiac]

We've established in the beginning of 52 that Montoya is a drunk, angry lesbian. Now it's just being repeated.

After a relapse, upon her being forced to kill a child. It's more than appropriate considering the situation. Sophisticated? Probably not. Fitting? In-character? Very much so.

[Brother Zag]

No, it's not. It's drawn out, bad storytelling.

You don't provide facts, merely your opinion. And you manage to sound a little arrogant doing it. Nice way to try to get a point across. So you quote Elmore Leonard, so what? Have you skipped issues of 52? I haven't.

When a writer is telling a story that has a beginning, middle & and end like the one in '52' each scene has to push the story forward. That's called rising tension.

Actually, it's usually called "rising action", if you're going all school-marm on us you should at least get your terms right, especially when you're writing to us as if we're the morons...

Scenes which do not either push the character forward or the plot forward are not sophisticated, they're lacking in tension and failing to up the stakes.

Yup, that's correct. And establishing that killing a child, even in a just cause, is enough to send the Montoya character reeling IS sophisticated storytelling. It does "push the character forward" in your words. It pushes the character's development forward and does increase the conflict and tension between the characters, which is a more accurate definition of what rising action should be establishing (character behavioral relapses, while maybe not fitting your concept of "forward", are indeed developments in that character, just not good developments). Just because you personally don't like these developments in the character doesn't decrease their service to the overall plot.

As Elmore Leonard says, "I try to write the parts people don't skip."
That's funny to me, as I skip Elmore Leonard's work, myself. It doesn't work for me; I find his writing forced and cliche-ridden. But my dislike of the work doesn't mean I'm right, it just means it doesn't work for me. I'm not going to tell the hundreds of thousands who buy, read and enjoy his books that they're wrong to do so.

What Rucka is doing with Montoya's character arc is like writing a mystery where the detective visits the crime scene over and over and finds the same clue. We've established in the beginning of 52 that Montoya is a drunk, angry lesbian. Now it's just being repeated.

No, it's not. I can see you don't get or appreciate what Rucka et al are doing, but it's not fair to mischaracterize the writing. Your simile is spurious, as well, as it ignores the fact that they ARE writing a mystery where the characters visit different crime scenes and find different clues.

Sophisticated character development means you show your characters developing, you don't just tell the audience "she's a drunk angry lesbian who can't break out of her cycle of destructive behavior," and leave it at that. That is NOT sophisticated storytelling.

Fiction is not real life.

Storytelling is not about properly and carefully reporting events as they would happen in real life. That's a documentary.

Nice tone. And Your definitions. Not accepted ones. And only cinema verite docs really try to show everything, your Elmore quote applies to docs as well, in spite of your saying it doesn't. Some storytelling succeeds BECAUSE it goes into crazy detail, like Kafka's "Metamorphosis". And sometimes it's okay to say, "well, a year passed by..." if it serves your story. There is no general rule, as you seem to infer.

Storytelling is about crafting a work that moves and rises, where the events have turning points. So far, what Rucka has, in storytelling terms, is a sagging middle. There's nothing sophisticated about that.

You're correct about storytelling, but there's nothing but your opinion in the rest of your statement. I'd argue that having a main character kill a suicide bomber, who turns out to be a child, in the middle of a wedding ceremony is a turning point, and how the characters react to that point is what creates the tension, the rising action and the movement in the story. Not every turning point is an epiphany of truth for a character that helps them grow as people. As a matter of fact, it's a lot more interesting for me to read about a character that doesn't have an epiphany in the face of a turning point like this, because it makes me wonder "why not?" It also speaks volumes about the character in very subtle ways (which you seem to miss or avoid acknowledging) and this IS sophisticated storytelling.

[Cassius6303]

I think that nobody likes seeing a character on a self-destructive path, in this case Montoya. The only thing that bothers me about the character is the connection in having a gay character also being self-destructive. This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that nearly ALL the main characters (Ralph, Michael, John, Natasha and possibly Adam) are on some sort of self-destructive path.

Jamie

[Rhydaman]

I hope so! I want another trip to Melbourne. :)
Hang on a minute. This comic introduced a character called Daniel Carter. If you're going to talk Australian sport in this thread, shouldn't you be talking about being stuffed by the All Blacks?

[Autonomy]

I love 52, but they need to touch the other stories. I know its once a week so it isnt that bad, but MAN they need to tie them together quicker.

What I want to know is how can Ralph go from a normal kind of guy to almost joining a cult who kind of brought back his wife from the dead to being the new Fate?

Dont forget we have so far:

Cover Story:
1. Ralph with the helmet.
2. The starfire/lobo/animal lost in space.
3. Lex Luthor and the his super heros and giving people power and Steel
4. Tornado 52!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Montoya/Question/Isis/Adam killing kids and crying about it. (Atleast the story tied in)
6. Booster Gold coming back!

Lets not forget other ones like who supernova is!

[Captain Jim]

Hey people, it's fine to disagree with one another, but let's do it without the personal attacks, okay?

[Guts/Batman]

I think that nobody likes seeing a character on a self-destructive path, in this case Montoya.

Jamie

I don't mind having a character break down. But the angst of it really makes it unappealing to me.

Angst is just so annoying. It's not drama. It's drama's retarded cousin.

[Anodyne]

I meant to say that, in solicitations for and interviews about TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED, DC and Azzarello have only said "Dr. Thirteen" will star in the book. They haven't specifically stated that they're talking about Dr. Terrence Thirteen, which leaves the possibility open that there's another doctor in the family, or that Terrence has been resurrected as a woman after his recent death.
Well, the solicitation for the backup story in Tales of the Unexpected #1 says that "strange forces threaten to tear asunder the very fabric of the DCU's past, present, and future!" That sounds to me as if paradoxes are part of the plot, which means anything is possible;)--including both living and dead, or male and female, versions of Dr. Thirteen.

[Joe Acro]

Well, the solicitation for the backup story in Tales of the Unexpected #1 says that "strange forces threaten to tear asunder the very fabric of the DCU's past, present, and future!"
That's how they're getting Gentleman Ghost into the story. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's how Dr. Thirteen ends up in it.

[MrSuslov]

After the last issue of 52, I think I've finally lost my patience with Renee Montoya.

In fact, she's been officially consigned to my List of Characters Who Should Stop a Bullet. If not for her apparent centrality to a lot of the story, I would have been rooting for Black Adam to crush her windpipe like an ersatz Darth Vader. The problem is that there's a potential thirty-four more issues of "Montoya likes booze 'n broads, preferably at a close juncture, and can not deal with things". If that's the road the character's going to go down, then I hope she stops that proverbial bullet and soon.

I'm not sympathetic to her latest plight at all. If given a choice between "kid with the bomb dies" or "kid, me, and everyone around for x feet dies horribly", then punching the kid's ticket is the right answer. Of course, I'm not Montoya, and I wouldn't be able to make time with a woman in Adamland, either.

Other than that, I liked the issue. I just hope I can escape adding Shadowpact to the pull list.

[LtMarvel]

I don't have a problem with Ms. Montoya's attitude. Not everyone handles killing well, even in a do or die situation. Heck after becoming a father, I don't do well with movies in which lots of children die.

But I certainly understand why other people could handle things better or worse than me.

[Shellhead]

My only real problem with this issue was that Kahndaq doesn't seem like the kind of country where Montoya could quickly get drunk and hook up with a lesbian. I'm assuming that the main language of Kahndaq is not english and that the dominant religion is Islam.

[Matchstick]

My only real problem with this issue was that Kahndaq doesn't seem like the kind of country where Montoya could quickly get drunk and hook up with a lesbian. I'm assuming that the main language of Kahndaq is not english and that the dominant religion is Islam.

Well, people speak english everywhere, it couldn't be that hard to find an english speaker in Khandaq. And besides, Montoya was speaking the "international language", if you know what I mean ;) (to use a Better Off Dead reference).

I also don't think Islam is the main religion of Khandaq, it looks like the state religion there is related to the ancient Egyptians, which makes sense considering Adam's history. It also looks somewhat like Adam himself is worshipped by the populace somewhat, which fits with the Egyptian religion.

Even assuming that most of the populace was Islamic before Adam took over, don't you think there would still be lesbians there? They'd be far less open about it, the love that dare not speak its name and all that, but they'd still exist. The alcohol might be slightly more problematic, but I'm sure there is a healthy black market for alcohol in hardcore Islamic societies like Saudi Arabia.

I liked this issue, In fact I've found the whole series has been mostly excellent and never short of entertaining so far. And I love that it comes out every week!

[Shellhead]

Matchstick,

You raise some good points. I don't doubt there are lesbians and alcoholic beverages to be found in Kahndaq, just that it seems highly unlikely that a surly foreigner without any local connections could quickly locate both.

[wes_rk]

you can get anything anywhere in the world, no matter how tight or restrictive the government of that country is.

Issue #19 is out now, and I should be getting it in a couple of hours and for what I heard/read it is going to be an amazing issue.

[K'Nort]

Matchstick,

You raise some good points. I don't doubt there are lesbians and alcoholic beverages to be found in Kahndaq, just that it seems highly unlikely that a surly foreigner without any local connections could quickly locate both.

She doesn't need to be a lesbian, just a prostitute.

[Jack]

I just noticed this on my reread (every week I read the last issue before the new issue), but in the page where the Helm of Nabu tells Ralph about the Tenth Age of Magic, there's a picture of the Dweller in the Depths, aka the transformed Aquaman. Interestingly enough, if you're reading from the top down and left to right, it comes right after the Helm says "Nothing comes without a price."

[Sean Walsh]

I just noticed this on my reread (every week I read the last issue before the new issue), but in the page where the Helm of Nabu tells Ralph about the Tenth Age of Magic, there's a picture of the Dweller in the Depths, aka the transformed Aquaman. Interestingly enough, if you're reading from the top down and left to right, it comes right after the Helm says "Nothing comes without a price."

Makes you wonder what's happened to Tempest, if in fact he's not dead...

(If we didn't know for certain now that Dweller = Aquaman, there could be a case Dweller = Garth)

[kalorama]

Makes you wonder what's happened to Tempest, if in fact he's not dead...

(If we didn't know for certain now that Dweller = Aquaman, there could be a case Dweller = Garth)


There's really not any question that the dweller is Aquaman. The book reveals his identity pretty conclusively at the end of the first issue of Sword of Atlantis. Busiek himself said it was never supposed to be a mystery to readers, just to other characters.

http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8328

[Jack Zodiac]

And himself! I like that part the most. Even he doesn't know who the hell he is.