Did Jean Grey's death, House of M, and Decimation really do anything?

[mybotisgone]

When Grant Morrison's run ended on New X-Men back in 2004 with the Jean Grey where I think X-Men went downhill from there and keep rolling on the House of M, Decimation, and now X-men Civil War seems to me that their stories are just getting crapper and crapper. Look I'm sorry but that how I feel about the X-storys now. They just suck.:( The aftermath are not getting any better all the story seem to go downhill. Their are not that many characters anymore to write about. And now Marvel wants to kill of even more. So it's going to be with a lake of mutant characters and story do the the fact that there are no more mutant characters to write about all X-title will be pulled and called the death of the X-Men. We'are like what 2 or 3 years in to Jean Grey's death and nothing good as come out of it. The relationship between Scot and Emma Frost as falling apart and that started at the start of their relationship. There's more but I'm not going to go on with their relationship if you can call it that. Both House of M and Decimation have left nothing behind but an awful train wreck. What did we get with that? Gambit as a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf. Oh, Now almost every mutant character is being used up in every X-title os if one mutant character dies and the lake of mutant character in comics that would mean Marvel would have to pull the comic. Like I said mutant character House of M was a good idea but it went to far. And I still remember when Marvel said that House of M and Decimation would get rid of most of their bad ideas and open them up to new ideas and bring new mutant character in the X-Men would. By the way I'm still waiting. Oh, that's right, Marvel can't come up with new mutant character because they said only so many of them can be mutant.

But anyways, What do you guys think? Did Did Jean Grey's death, House of M, and Decimation really do what Marvel said they would do?

[AnthonyJ]

Not sure how you're linking Jean Grey's death to the other two (it wasn't related), but all three have to some degree done their job: Jean Grey's death left Jean Grey dead and Emma Frost running the Institute (did it have another purpose?), and HoM/Decimation got rid of the undefined mass of millions of mutants out there, without materially affecting the population of active mutants (no big name mutants lost their powers. In fact, pretty much no B-listers did either; it was really a Decimation of C-list and lower characters).

[mybotisgone]

Not sure how you're linking Jean Grey's death to the other two (it wasn't related), but all three have to some degree done their job: Jean Grey's death left Jean Grey dead and Emma Frost running the Institute (did it have another purpose?), and HoM/Decimation got rid of the undefined mass of millions of mutants out there, without materially affecting the population of active mutants (no big name mutants lost their powers. In fact, pretty much no B-listers did either; it was really a Decimation of C-list and lower characters).
Ok. lets see.

A list- Professor X
A list- Magneto
A list- Gambit, now a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf
A list- Polaris
A list- Jubilee
And more on this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_%28comics%29

As for Emma Frost let's see how good of a jod she did. She messed up on Scarlet Witch when she said no more mutant what good did that do. And someone said that Emma Frost as co-headmaster that no more student would die. When the bus blow up well that was untrue. And she sold out the X-Men to Hellfire Club. Yea, it's looking real purpose there.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

For me Jean's death was just done for shock value. Morrison seemed to run out of ideas towards the end of his run. He'd fast-tracked the X-Men by ramping up mutant numbers and taking the X-Men public, and he had begun to realise that after doing this he'd kind of written himself into a hole. Without the mystique of an underground group the X-Men weren't quite so interesting, and he didn't really know what to do with them now. While he did try to make some sense out of Phoenix mythos killing jean really achieved very little.

As for House of M? Well House of M finally brought the X-books out of their stunted little community and showed their importance within the whole Marvel Universe. I think that really did achieve a lot, from that point of view. But at the end of the day it was a self enclosed event - like Age of Apocalypse. It was Decimation which made the real difference.

Decimation did several things. It set up a proper return for two X-titles which people had been awaiting and pleading for since 1998. But more importantly it fixed the two 'problems' Morrison had left the X-Men with when he left early for DC.

The X-Men might now be public, but that meant they were now feared more than ever before, a target for people, and being held captive by sentinels on their own estate. That had a lot of potential. It did kind of wear thin, but more-so due to the inadequacy of Peter Milligan's writing. Rather than take his team to try and test the Sentinels, to try and break out and do something, he didn't bother. And then he wrote the worst Apocalypse story ever.

And secondly those crazy mutant numbers were reverted to a sensible level. The depowering WAS shocking at first. It shook up the status quo and made for very interesting reading. It was sadly spoiled by Milligan again, when he repowered Iceman. A first generation X-Man losing his powers, becoming a poster boy for M-Day survivors, and trying to cope with that could have been fascinating to read. Sadly that was beyond Milligan and he seemed to spit the dummy by repowering him straight away. A total waste.

Decimation once more touched across the Marvel Universe. It was a great concept, but fell down in some places, let down by several writers not being of a high enough quality to deliver the goods. Claremont's The Day After was brilliant, but both The 198 and Generation M kind of just petered out. The writers didn't fit the task. I'm sure it was a direct result of this realisation which led to Brubaker and Carey coming on board for the X-Books shake up.

It's really too early to assess Civil War yet. So far it doesn't really effect the X-Men too much. They're still under House Arrest (Although not very competently) and only a few X-Men are really involved. We'll have to see.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Oh, and spell Jean Grey, correctly... :D

[mybotisgone]

Oh, and spell Jean Grey, correctly... :D
Sorry about that. I fix what I can but I can't fix the rest.:(

[twilight]

A list- Gambit, now a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf
A list- Polaris

Gambit was never depowered.
It even says so in the link you posted.

He received new powers from Apocalypse but he didn't lose his kinetic energy powers on M-Day.

Magneto and Polaris have also been repowered which means that your high profile depowerment list has shrunk down to two members.

[Mitsaso]

The X-Men might now be public, but that meant they were now feared more than ever before, a target for people, and being held captive by sentinels on their own estate. That had a lot of potential. It did kind of wear thin, but more-so due to the inadequacy of Peter Milligan's writing. Rather than take his team to try and test the Sentinels, to try and break out and do something, he didn't bother. And then he wrote the worst Apocalypse story ever.
Darlin' there's no sense in blaming Milligan for long-running crossover-y subplots that were mandated by Marvel. What's the point in Milligan having his team deal with the Sentinels, except for the 3-issue arc that introduced them? If the adjectiveless team really DID something with the Sentinels, it would cut short Marvel's favourite subplot these days before its time, and it would also majorly affect the otehr x-books, something not meant for adjectiveless X-Men.


The depowering WAS shocking at first. It shook up the status quo and made for very interesting reading. It was sadly spoiled by Milligan again, when he repowered Iceman. A first generation X-Man losing his powers, becoming a poster boy for M-Day survivors, and trying to cope with that could have been fascinating to read. Sadly that was beyond Milligan and he seemed to spit the dummy by repowering him straight away. A total waste.

The Iceman-losing-his-powers-thing was planned IN ADVANCE from Marvel to get rid of his stupid secondary mutation. Wasn't it obvious?? Probably not enough.

Try to stop blaming one sole writer with no real power over Marvel's editors for major crossovers and subplots that Marvel had decided on. Thank you!:D

[Zombienorthstar]

As for Emma Frost let's see how good of a jod she did. She messed up on Scarlet Witch when she said no more mutant what good did that do. .


Hello? Emma wanted to kill Wanda...if the rest of the heroes had listened to Emma there would never have been a House of M or Decimation. If anything Emma and Wolverine were the only ones talking sense at that point.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Darlin' there's no sense in blaming Milligan for long-running crossover-y subplots that were mandated by Marvel. What's the point in Milligan having his team deal with the Sentinels, except for the 3-issue arc that introduced them?

For the sake of fitting in with the status quo of all the other X-titles as opposed to ignoring it as often as possible, and treading water with some never to be used again story about a greeb blob from space?

If the adjectiveless team really DID something with the Sentinels, it would cut short Marvel's favourite subplot these days before its time, and it would also majorly affect the otehr x-books, something not meant for adjectiveless X-Men.

I'm not talking about removing them or destroying, I'm talking abut testing them, or trying to get around them. Interacting. Developing the concept as opposed to ignoring it.

The Iceman-losing-his-powers-thing was planned IN ADVANCE from Marvel to get rid of his stupid secondary mutation. Wasn't it obvious?? Probably not enough.

Without a doubt. But Iceman being repowered almost instantly as Milligan had the chance was poor. He could have continued with Bobby believing he had no powers, and trying to come to terms with it for a good 8 issues, or more. He could have actually developed his character, put him up as a poster boy for M-Day survivors, who people saw as somebody to look up to. Only to have all that crushed as he redeveloped his powers, even as they faced Apocalypse.

There were endless possibilities set up in the House of M final issue and in 'the day after'. He chose not to use them, or do anything with the character at all. And that is nothing short of poor writing.

Try to stop blaming one sole writer with no real power over Marvel's editors for major crossovers and subplots that Marvel had decided on. Thank you!:D

I'm not blaming him for like totally destroying the Event. But I think it is totally fair to point him out as a weak link in the crossover. Even the other limited series' which people felt were quite weak at least were singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak.

Milligan seemed determined to brush it all aside quickly and move on. Only he didn't really have anything major to move on to, other than trying to bring Doop/Daap back into the X-Books. Something which will now bne ignored by subsequent writers.

[Zombienorthstar]

Miligans decision to include Doop/Daap was pure ego...he wasnt interested in writign a good story only in shoe horning in his own creation. Thats so weak its unreal.

The one thing i did like (The Leper Queen) was totally ignored and never resolved.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Miligans decision to include Doop/Daap was pure ego...he wasnt interested in writign a good story only in shoe horning in his own creation. Thats so weak its unreal.

The one thing i did like (The Leper Queen) was totally ignored and never resolved.

Yes, I would still be interested to find out what that was all about.

[fishtaco]

Which death for Jean? House of M and Decimation didn't do anything, though.

[twilight]

Which death for Jean?

Which one do you think Fish?

Perhaps the one that happened in the same decade as the other two events.

[Mitsaso]

For the sake of fitting in with the status quo of all the other X-titles as opposed to ignoring it as often as possible, and treading water with some never to be used again story about a greeb blob from space?
I would say that the exact opposite happened. Every other writer (except for the minis that dealt ESPECIALLY with the Sentinels) had written the sentinels as a minor obstacle their x-team had to overcome every time they wanted to leave the mansion for a mission. Milligan actually dealt with their introduction in that 3-issue arc and actually had them as allies in the Apocalypse storyline, where the first batch of sentinels were pwned by Poccy-lips and the new, anime-like team (ALSO editorially mandated) had to come in and aid the X-men against him. EVERY other book had the Sentinels as background imagery or a joke. Milligan dealt with them more than anybody else, so I think you might be a little unfair with him on that specific matter. I know his run probably made your pretty little eyes bleed,and I respect your disliking on his writing, but you don't need to blame him for everything.:p Share the blame, it's fun!!!!



I'm not talking about removing them or destroying, I'm talking abut testing them, or trying to get around them. Interacting. Developing the concept as opposed to ignoring it.
As I said above, Milligan's X-Men had the most interaction with sentinels and their staff than anybody else. As for trying to get around them, well, you saw what other writers did (like C&C at New X-Men, who had the Sentinels completely ridiculed, first by Stryker's bombing on the bus, then that sniper who got past them and shot Wallflower, then Stryker attacking the mansion without the sentinels being useful against him, then the new X-Men getting past the sentinels on their way out like they were some old sick watchdog.:rolleyes:



Without a doubt. But Iceman being repowered almost instantly as Milligan had the chance was poor. He could have continued with Bobby believing he had no powers, and trying to come to terms with it for a good 8 issues, or more. He could have actually developed his character, put him up as a poster boy for M-Day survivors, who people saw as somebody to look up to. Only to have all that crushed as he redeveloped his powers, even as they faced Apocalypse.
Dude!! People already called Bobby DUMB for going two issues without realising he hadn't lost his powers, imagine what the outrage would be if Bobby had spent 8 WHOLE ISSUES thinking that he lost his powers....!!:D And anyway, Xavier is the ideal poster boy for M-Day survivors, why not use him instead?


Milligan seemed determined to brush it all aside quickly and move on. Only he didn't really have anything major to move on to, other than trying to bring Doop/Daap back into the X-Books. Something which will now bne ignored by subsequent writers.
Doop won't need to be ignored by the other writers, because Milligan already wrote him out (sent him back to space). It was intentional absurdity, and an injoke for X-Statix fans like, me so I thoroughly enjoyed it! I really wish Doop will be ignored by other writers, because NOBODY can do justice to Doop like Milligan did!:D

[brundlefly]

Frankly, Morrison's New X-Men only looks good compared to what had come recently before it, the other X-Men book at the time (Casey's), and then the mediocre stories afterwards (House of M, etc.) So I would say that the X-Men were mostly uneven and disappointing during his run as well, as opposed to this blinders-on mentality of "OMG MORRISON WAS SO AWESOME BUT EVERYTHING AFTER HIM JUST SUX." Currently though, with Brubaker, Carey and Whedon on the main X-books, PAD on X-Factor, and Nicieza's Cable & Deadpool, we can get some consistent, well-written storylines and characterization, which is what the X-Books have sorely needed for years. So if the poll is 'are the X-books as a whole improving after Jean's death/House of M/Decimation', I would say definitely yes, for the first time in a long while.

I would personally like to see the ONE Sentinel Squad just pack up and go home, see some stabilization to the mutant population (back to a more organic growing minority as opposed to the magically-reduced current tiny numbers or Morrison's overnight population explosion) and think Jean should stay dead for now, as her resurrection would inevitably just involve more Phoenix rehashing. I think there is just the right amount of Civil War participation in the actual titles at the moment (with people who want more having the option of picking up the X-Men Civil War mini). Beyond that, the X-books are on the right track at the moment; one can only hope that they stay that way.

[mybotisgone]

The only good depowered that did any good was Stacy X. Now let's hope she dies.

[AnthonyJ]

A list- Professor X

Depowered, but something is always taking out Prof X, and he'll get better.

A list- Magneto
A list- Gambit, now a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf
A list- Polaris
A list- Jubilee

Jubilee is not A list, she's B-C. The other three are either not depowered, or are repowered. HoM didn't depower anyone any writer wanted to use, and 'no-one is interested in this character' is pretty much the definition of 'not A-list'.
As for Emma Frost let's see how good of a jod she did.
What does doing a good job have to do with anything?

[mybotisgone]

Depowered, but something is always taking out Prof X, and he'll get better.

Jubilee is not A list, she's B-C. The other three are either not depowered, or are repowered. HoM didn't depower anyone any writer wanted to use, and 'no-one is interested in this character' is pretty much the definition of 'not A-list'.

What does doing a good job have to do with anything?
What you do follow me? Alright your right I'm wrong. Happy now. you've proved your pont on likes Jubilee.:(

[CE_Rap]

THis is tough, and a very frustrating. Primarily because these are 3 topics that turned me away from Marvel for a bit. When house of M started, i wasn't that interested. At the time, the only comic i followed was Uncanny X-Men because Rachel and Psylocke were the leads and it focused on Excalibur people. But lets stay organized.

JEan Grey's death was horrible and useless. If this was where she ended up, then she was better off dying on the moon for good, where her death had meaning and purpose.

"Out with the old, in with the new" is what i call a punk mechanism for editors/writers to get rid of loose ends as easily as possible. It was completely for shock value, as The Sword is Drawn stated. And it's easier to dump a character who i think started gaining momentum, then to actually sit and think "okay, let's do something new with Jean now. She died once, so let's not do that. Let's really think."

Why? Because by killing her, MArvel has pretty much established that she will be back. It's gonna happen, no doubt about. That's exactly what makes it stupid. I don't care that she warped the past to make it that Scott and Emma stay together and run the school. Her doing that did not justify her death for me in the slightest. It really does make me think Morrison ran out of ideas, wanted a shocking ending--basically, a punk mechanism.

House of M really didn't do anything for me because, as i said, Uncanny X-Men was the only titile i checked out every now and then. I read the other stories and books later on just to fully understand =teh crossover, and.........i liked it less. It was just a willy-nilly crossover that i believe came from a great idea, but sloped downward too fast. The little things are what i liked (Polaris being like a princess as Magneto's child was one of my favorite aspects). Even so, i might have liked it a whole lot more if it didn't lead to--

Decimation.:( The king of all punk mechanisms. "Too many mutants. Lets just hit delete on 90% or whatever so we don't have to wonder what Stacy X and Blob are up to." I took decimation as Marvel quickly sweeping away any and all loose ends. It was sloppy and way to easy. Yet, i would have been understanding (more so, anyway) if they had some balls behind it.

If MArvel said " Okay, 'no more mutants' means just that. Not just, no more mutants, except the most important ones." So if Iceman stayed depowered, there you go. How about Cyclops? Or Wolfsbane? Or Beast? Or Nightcrawler? I'm not saying them in particular, but come on, the ones who got depowered are the ones that were pretty much expected. "Let's give Magneto and Charles a break. Oh, and let's get rid of a but load of the kids in Academy X."

[CE_Rap]

Jubilee depowered is the fan boy in me getting pissed off, but it was because of her series sucking that she got the shaft. That's a punk mechanism to me. I wish more mutants were off the radar than just done forever.

It bothers me because the aftermath is...okay i suppose. The Sentinels were an interesting plot device (b4 the bucket heads were obsolete, so they brought in the GUNDAMS and EVANGELIONS). But it's just "okay." And something THIS big should have me on the edge of my seat with anticipation.

House of M could have been Wanda saying no more mutants at the beginning, thus making Magneto the ruler of the remaining mutants, then Wanda dies (either sacrificing herself or getting killed), and then maybe 25%-30% of mutantcy remain depowered as a result of the chaos warp dissipating. Keep Mags and Professor X depowered indefinitely, and there you go. That's a start. At least then, it's not a cop out. THat's just an example. The editors/writers could've come up with dozens of ideas that were better. THey chose the punk mechanism.

ANd Civil War is dope. Interestingly enough, decimation and all that really had nothing to do with it. In the sense that, House of M could never have happened, and Civil War would still be justified. Now imagine if it was only 25%-30% of mutants, and they brought the Sentinels more as a "house arrest" than aid.

I know they're like that a little already, but they claim to be "helping defend the school," where i'd rather they forcibly but a house arrest. That, i think, gives the X-Men a much bigger place in the rest of the Marvel U. Shoot, maybe Cap and his crew takes on the sentinels to free some X-Men, i dunno. It'd be really scary, because the X-Men have kids to protect so they'd rather stay out of this fiasco. But they can't, and at the end of the day, they shouldn't. THis is really the fight, more than any other, that they need to be fighting.

It's tough because Carey's "X-Men" is entertaining (i love it), but really, based on the world Marvel has set up, they're contradicting themselves. I feel like this Civl War/SHRA is way too big for us not to see the X-Men dealing with it. And i mean the act itself, not just stupid GUNDAM and EVANGELION pilots. The team shouldn't have to just deal with the robots. If the team is on US soil, on a mission, they should always be under threat of getting arrested.

Ex. What if during Rogue's mission, Cannonball got arrested at the end. Then Cannonball guest-stared in New Avengers because Cap broke him out or something. That's the kind of interaction i expected to see. A LOT of it.

Editors/writers who understand that and don't cop out can really make that work. That's what i'm still waiting for.

[dazzler_slave]

CE Rap, you are now my personal god. You summed up my feelings almost exactly! Good job!

[CE_Rap]

CE Rap, you are now my personal god. You summed up my feelings almost exactly! Good job!

I'm expecting a good deal of heat for this, so trust me when i tell you, your response is very much appreciated.:D

[mybotisgone]

I got most of what CE_Rap says but when Wanda, "no more mutants." A Marvel said the samething. I know that that was not ture. Why because if got rid of all are most of their mutants there would be nomore X-titles and all X-books would be cancelled or just renamed the EXmutants. And all that would show us all the X-Men living a normal life trying to get over the fact that they can no longer be X-Men anymore.

One of the things that hurt Marvel when Grant Morrison's run was that there was no villains anymore. Are at least no magor villains there are small villains but lets face it they where no magor threat to the X-Men. Morrison said that Mr. Sinister was dead din't even show us how just said he was dead. But Marvel him back to at lest show a magor threat to the X-Men. They had to do somthing the storys where going nowhere. Now Magneto was brought back to life by Claremont because of the fact that Grant Morrison's last story full face first on the ground and went nowhere fast. But Marvel took Magneto away and killed a good story that Claremont was working on. But Apocalypse was going to stay dead. But Marvel need a magor X-Villain and both Magneto and Mr. Sinister on the rocks and Marvel saying no you can't use them anymore that leaves Apocalypse.

Marvel can't use Scot and Emma Frost kids do to the fact that they would not have a powerful kid. Not like Scot and Jean Grey's child would so that gets rid of Mr. Sinister. Can't use him on Scot and Emma's child becoues Mr. Sinister can't use them and don't care about them. Scot and Jean's child leads out to so meany storys but Scot and Emma's child leads to a dead end. What we need is a magor X-Villain again. But with the aftermath of both House of M and Decimation and the state of all mutants that can't happen.

P.S By the way Gambit now being a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf just sucks. I hope Marvel turns him back.:(

[Beast]

I got most of what CE_Rap says but when Wanda, "no more mutants." A Marvel said the samething. I know that that was not ture. Why because if got rid of all are most of their mutants there would be nomore X-titles and all X-books would be cancelled or just renamed the EXmutants. And all that would show us all the X-Men living a normal life trying to get over the fact that they can no longer be X-Men anymore.

One of the things that hurt Marvel when Grant Morrison's run was that there was no villains anymore. Are at least no magor villains there are small villains but lets face it they where no magor threat to the X-Men. Morrison said that Mr. Sinister was dead din't even show us how just said he was dead. But Marvel him back to at lest show a magor threat to the X-Men. They had to do somthing the storys where going nowhere. Now Magneto was brought back to life by Claremont because of the fact that Grant Morrison's last story full face first on the ground and went nowhere fast. But Marvel took Magneto away and killed a good story that Claremont was working on. But Apocalypse was going to stay dead. But Marvel need a magor X-Villain and both Magneto and Mr. Sinister on the rocks and Marvel saying no you can't use them anymore that leaves Apocalypse.

Marvel can't use Scot and Emma Frost kids do to the fact that they would not have a powerful kid. Not like Scot and Jean Grey's child would so that gets rid of Mr. Sinister. Can't use him on Scot and Emma's child becoues Mr. Sinister can't use them and don't care about them. Scot and Jean's child leads out to so meany storys but Scot and Emma's child leads to a dead end. What we need is a magor X-Villain again. But with the aftermath of both House of M and Decimation and the state of all mutants that can't happen.

P.S By the way Gambit now being a cross between and evil smurf and an evil elf just sucks. I hope Marvel turns him back.:(
Wanda not depowering most of the X-Men does make sense, there was method to her madness. After all she purposefully depowered the Lensherr bloodline, and gave Xavier back the use of his legs. They defiined their lives being X-Men and Mutants, and so she aved most of them from the depowering. It's as much of a punishment as it compassion because she personally knew many of them. Dr. Strange's counter-spell may have had some effect on this as well. We're not 100% sure exactly what happeend.

Morrison never said that Mr. Sinister was dead. Where are you getting that crack from? And there's plenty of threats to the X-Men, if writers decide to use them. Most of the Brotherhood is still powered, there's Dark Beast, Mr. Sinister, etc. And there was no way that Apocalypse was going to remain dead. He's one of the major X-Men villains, and even Cable after he killed him in the "Search for Cyclops" doubted that that was the last they'd see of him. And of course thanks to Cable himself, he was right.

Marvel can't use Scott and Emma's kids, because they don't have any kids yet. And how do you know that they wouldn't be powerful? It's Scott's X-Gene that catalyzes mutants and makes them more powerful, not Jean's. That's why Sinister has always been obsessed with Summers' genetics ever since encountering Scott. And yes, even with the current state of mutant numbers major X-Villains can still work.

[Jake V]

I got most of what CE_Rap says but when Wanda, "no more mutants." A Marvel said the samething. I know that that was not ture. Why because if got rid of all are most of their mutants there would be nomore X-titles and all X-books would be cancelled or just renamed the EXmutants. And all that would show us all the X-Men living a normal life trying to get over the fact that they can no longer be X-Men anymore.
Maybe you missed the part where Doctor Strange put up some sort of magical shield that protected the X-Men from her powers. That's the reason they stayed around.

One of the things that hurt Marvel when Grant Morrison's run was that there was no villains anymore. Are at least no magor villains there are small villains but lets face it they where no magor threat to the X-Men.
Uh, Cassandra Nova killed 16 million mutants and crippled the Shi'ar empire. Magneto showed up (at the time) and leveled a chunk of NYC. There were a great many villains. No, he didn't really use Apocalypse, between the new ones he created, or the old ones he altered like the Sentinels, there were deadly major villains.

Morrison said that Mr. Sinister was dead din't even show us how just said he was dead.
No he didn't. Sinister wasn't mentioned AT ALL in Morrison's run. You're completely wrong, and should try actually reading the comics you're talking about before saying things about them.

But Marvel him back to at lest show a magor threat to the X-Men. They had to do somthing the storys where going nowhere. Now Magneto was brought back to life by Claremont because of the fact that Grant Morrison's last story full face first on the ground and went nowhere fast. But Marvel took Magneto away and killed a good story that Claremont was working on. But Apocalypse was going to stay dead. But Marvel need a magor X-Villain and both Magneto and Mr. Sinister on the rocks and Marvel saying no you can't use them anymore that leaves Apocalypse.
There's so many contradictions here that I'm not sure where to start. So Marvel brought back Sinister to show what a major threat he is... but marvel was saying that they can't use Sinister? Marvel said Magneto can't be used? He was a huge piece of HoM, and recently showed up again in New Avengers to get his powers back. If anything, they killed Claremont's direction in Excalibur because it stood in the way of a different story that allowed Marvel to make more money.

Marvel can't use Scot and Emma Frost kids do to the fact that they would not have a powerful kid. Not like Scot and Jean Grey's child would so that gets rid of Mr. Sinister. Can't use him on Scot and Emma's child becoues Mr. Sinister can't use them and don't care about them. Scot and Jean's child leads out to so meany storys but Scot and Emma's child leads to a dead end. What we need is a magor X-Villain again. But with the aftermath of both House of M and Decimation and the state of all mutants that can't happen.
There's a lot more to Sinister than preying on the potential children of Cyclops and Jean Grey. Read Mutant Massacre lately?

Oh, and learn to freaking spell.

[brundlefly]

I'm expecting a good deal of heat for this

Not from me. Great arguments in your post regarding Jean, Decimation, and the "no more mutants....wait OK some mutants" backsliding. Only thing I disagree with you on is seeing more Civil War in the X-Books, but that's just due to my distaste for crossover issues derailing a book's existing story. And that 'forced government registration' is old hat for the X-books, even if it's the hot new thing in the main Marvel universe. But you have a good point in that CW is so big and sweeping that it is logical that it would spill over heavily into the mutant titles.


One of the things that hurt Marvel when Grant Morrison's run was that there was no villains anymore. Are at least no magor villains there are small villains but lets face it they where no magor threat to the X-Men.

Agreed. The only two big 'villains' were Xavier's evil twin sister and a superintelligent germ, both rather eye-roll inducing threats. One of the great disappointments of his run was the complete disuse of the rich X-Men rogues gallery.


Morrison said that Mr. Sinister was dead din't even show us how just said he was dead. But Marvel him back to at lest show a magor threat to the X-Men.

When did he say that? Given that Sinister was making appearances in WEAPON X at the time, he was obviously not dead, but that kind of throwaway declaration was typical of NEW X-MEN and doesn't surprise me. Was that statement just so that he could then give Sinster's MO away to Sublime for HERE COMES TOMORROW?

[Jake V]

When did he say that? Given that Sinister was making appearances in WEAPON X at the time, he was obviously not dead, but that kind of throwaway declaration was typical of NEW X-MEN and doesn't surprise me. Was that statement just so that he could then give Sinster's MO away to Sublime for HERE COMES TOMORROW?
No, because it was never said.

Someone777 is just making things up again.

[Sentinel K]

No, because it was never said.

Someone777 is just making things up again.

I barely understood a word he said.

[Hi-Fi]

Agreed. The only two big 'villains' were Xavier's evil twin sister and a superintelligent germ, both rather eye-roll inducing threats. One of the great disappointments of his run was the complete disuse of the rich X-Men rogues gallery.


This is relative. Cassandra Nova is of my favorites X-Men villains ever created. So Morrison went for something new, trying to avoid the smae old gallery of X-Baddies. Is this a bad thing? Again, relative.

[Sentinel K]

Who wants an old villain re-appearing every arc?

I don't. And i'm sure most X-fans dont either.

Morrisson did what many writers haven't done for YEARS. Created, in Nova, a new villain that was A) Interesting B) Was actually a threat and C)people actually liked (as a character).

I guess Quentin could be seen as a quasi-villain too but with enough shades of grey to be interesting.

And then there was Magneto.....

[mybotisgone]

Agreed. The only two big 'villains' were Xavier's evil twin sister and a superintelligent germ, both rather eye-roll inducing threats. One of the great disappointments of his run was the complete disuse of the rich X-Men rogues gallery.

When did he say that? Given that Sinister was making appearances in WEAPON X at the time, he was obviously not dead, but that kind of throwaway declaration was typical of NEW X-MEN and doesn't surprise me. Was that statement just so that he could then give Sinster's MO away to Sublime for HERE COMES TOMORROW?
Me and most X-fans don't even care about Cassandra Nova.

Sorry about the info. Looks like I was wrong. When I was doing my rant I din't see what I was putting down. Sorry about that.

[Hi-Fi]

Me and most X-fans don't even care about Cassandra Nova.


Show me evidence of this.

[brundlefly]

No, because it was never said.

Someone777 is just making things up again.

Ah, I see.

I take it this is a recurring problem?


Morrisson did what many writers haven't done for YEARS. Created, in Nova, a new villain that was A) Interesting B) Was actually a threat and C)people actually liked (as a character).

Bah. The only thing separating Nova from being a xerox copy of the Shadow King was the "long lost evil twin sister" aspect, which was just daytime soap opera-level silly. She hardly represented a "new" concept or idea. Agreed with you that Quentin was an interesting character, though.

[mybotisgone]

Bah. The only thing separating Nova from being a xerox copy of the Shadow King was the "long lost evil twin sister" aspect, which was just daytime soap opera-level silly. She hardly represented a "new" concept or idea. Agreed with you that Quentin was an interesting character, though.
Oh yea the Shadow King. I like to see him again. For a magor X-Villain at lest he had some teeth. If you want another of Grant Morrison's bad ideas that went no where try when he tried to make Beast gay. http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=2815

[Cayman]

Oh yea the Shadow King. I like to see him again. For a magor X-Villain at lest he had some teeth. If you want another of Grant Morrison's bad ideas that went no where try when he tried to make Beast gay. http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=2815

He didn't try and make Beast gay. Beast was dissing his ex-girlfriend who dumped him when he went leonine.

[Hi-Fi]

Oh yea the Shadow King. I like to see him again. For a magor X-Villain at lest he had some teeth. If you want another of Grant Morrison's bad ideas that went no where try when he tried to make Beast gay. http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=2815

He didn't intend Beast to be gay. Beast was just trying to hurt Patricia when he said he was gay. You should try harder to understand the stories you're reading.

[X-Factor]

All three could have been a gazillion times better. The aftermaths could have been a gazillion times better, with the exception of Grey's death which really did not serve much aside from getting her outside of the books and bringing her clone center stage.

[Zombienorthstar]

The only good depowered that did any good was Stacy X. Now let's hope she dies.


Stacy X was fantastic.

[dazzler_slave]

Me and most X-fans don't even care about Cassandra Nova.

Please don't presume to speak for all X-Fans. Not that I'm championing Cassandra Nova particularily, but I don't have a problem with her. Plus she is a bit of a breath of fresh air in that she is a female villain who A) can hold her own with all the major male villains in the X-Gallery and B) is an ugly wrinkled old woman unlike most female X-Villains who all seem to be supermodels in lingerie or some other form of revealing outfit (yes Emma Frost, Selene, Goblyn Queen and Mystique, I'm talking about YOU). Why is it that whenever new villains with potential are introduced, so many fans complain about them? Do we really want to see the same 15 or so villains rotated endlessly? The Neo had potential, but due to fan scorn, they were dropped. Some people are complaining about Cassandra Nova and Sublime, both interesting villains, and I'm sure Mike Carey's Children, who seem pretty cool, will fall by the wayside once he's moved on to another title. It is always said that new heroes never seem to make it these days, but I would have to say the same thing goes for new villains. We just don't give them the chance.

[Beast]

Shadow King is back, and likely will be the 'Big Bad' in Exiles.

As for the "Beast is Gay" thing, I agree with what Caymen and Hi-Fi said. It annoyed me at first also because it didn't make sense, as unlike say Iceman, Beast hasn't been written Ambigious ever. Bbut once it became clear that it was just Hank trying to stick it to Trish I liked the idea. It fits Hank's quirky sense of humor to stick it to her, especially after she broke up with him on his answering machine. It's a shame that more hasn't been played with the idea, it seems to be another dropped plot point. I'd love Colossus asking Hank about it in Whedon's run.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BeastGay.jpg

[dazzler_slave]

If you want another of Grant Morrison's bad ideas that went no where try when he tried to make Beast gay.
Wow...just...wow. I have no words...

[drwho]

I dont really see how jean grey's death has anything to do with the other two hence i refuse to vote.:evilsmile

[Beast]

Me and most X-fans don't even care about Cassandra Nova.
Cassie Nova was one of the few major things I did like about Morrison's New X-Men.

[Hi-Fi]

Cassie Nova was one of the few major things I did like about Morrison's New X-Men.

She's Beast's biggest enemy, in my opinion.

[Zombienorthstar]

One thing Cassandra Nova has other ANY other X-villain. When she shows up its scary. You actually are kind of terrified of what shes capable of.

[Beast]

She's Beast's biggest enemy, in my opinion.
Yes, she was an utter heartless bitch to him when she psychically tore him down in the lab. Poor Hank. In the 40 years of X-Men comics, noone has managed to really hurt Beast as deeply as Cassie Nova did. The only one who even comes as close is Dark Beast. She's left major scars on his psyche. She's also his greatest fear, which ties into that whole 'Nightmare' theory about Astonishing X-Men. ;)

[Cayman]

Plus she slept with Charles's girlfriend. :eek:

[Beast]

Plus she slept with Charles's girlfriend. :eek:
Heh. And said that she wasn't a very good lay. ;)

[brundlefly]

Please don't presume to speak for all X-Fans. Not that I'm championing Cassandra Nova particularily, but I don't have a problem with her. Plus she is a bit of a breath of fresh air in that she is a female villain who A) can hold her own with all the major male villains in the X-Gallery and B) is an ugly wrinkled old woman unlike most female X-Villains who all seem to be supermodels in lingerie or some other form of revealing outfit (yes Emma Frost, Selene, Goblyn Queen and Mystique, I'm talking about YOU). Why is it that whenever new villains with potential are introduced, so many fans complain about them? Do we really want to see the same 15 or so villains rotated endlessly? The Neo had potential, but due to fan scorn, they were dropped. Some people are complaining about Cassandra Nova and Sublime, both interesting villains, and I'm sure Mike Carey's Children, who seem pretty cool, will fall by the wayside once he's moved on to another title. It is always said that new heroes never seem to make it these days, but I would have to say the same thing goes for new villains. We just don't give them the chance.


You make a good point and I agree with you regarding giving new villains a chance to spread their wings. I liked the Neo and am currently enjoying Carey's Children in X-MEN and hope they stick around. I just disagree with you regarding Nova and Sublime, both of whom I found uninteresting and seriously overused to almost Norman Osborn levels during NEW X-MEN. One or the other of them was behind literally everything; there was no variety in the rogues during his run, that's my point moreso than a new vs. old prejudice. For instance, I found the U-Men and Quentin to be far more interesting than either Nova or Sublime even though they didn't get a fraction of the playing time reserved for those two.

[Cayman]

Heh. And said that she wasn't a very good lay. ;)

Which totally violates the continuity of when Lilandra and I hooked up.

[Zombienorthstar]

I loved Sublime when he was just the leader of the U-Men...i thought the Third Species etc...was a great idea.

Its when it got all complex and he was a freaky mutant and something to do with Kick that i disliked him.

[Beast]

I loved Sublime when he was just the leader of the U-Men...i thought the Third Species etc...was a great idea.

Its when it got all complex and he was a freaky mutant and something to do with Kick that i disliked him.
Yeah, intelligent bacteria... meh. They really need to clear up that Sublime/That Which Endures thing also.

[Daithi]

Hello? Emma wanted to kill Wanda...if the rest of the heroes had listened to Emma there would never have been a House of M or Decimation. If anything Emma and Wolverine were the only ones talking sense at that point.

Nobody was talking sense at that stupid meeting. There was this thing about a mutant cure which nobody bothered to bring. Just so Emma could jump in with her "I'm so badass lets kill the witch".

[Cayman]

I liked Sublime being part of Kick. It was nice and freaky.

[dazzler_slave]

You make a good point and I agree with you regarding giving new villains a chance to spread their wings. I liked the Neo and am currently enjoying Carey's Children in X-MEN and hope they stick around. I just disagree with you regarding Nova and Sublime, both of whom I found uninteresting and seriously overused to almost Norman Osborn levels during NEW X-MEN. One or the other of them was behind literally everything; there was no variety in the rogues during his run, that's my point moreso than a new vs. old prejudice. For instance, I found the U-Men and Quentin to be far more interesting than either Nova or Sublime even though they didn't get a fraction of the playing time reserved for those two.
To each their own, I guess. I thought Cassandra had a lot of potential. Sublime less so, but at least he was different. Plus, I kinda see Morrison's run as one huge story so it makes sense for certain villains to recur, to tie everything together. I am pleased to see Cassandra being used in Whedon's story because it moves her beyond just being a Morrison creation.

[Beast]

Nobody was talking sense at that stupid meeting. There was this thing about a mutant cure which nobody bothered to bring. Just so Emma could jump in with her "I'm so badass lets kill the witch".
The mutant cure was destroyed at the time. The only remaining sample is in Hank's lab.

[Beast]

To each their own, I guess. I thought Cassandra had a lot of potential. Sublime less so, but at least he was different. Plus, I kinda see Morrison's run as one huge story so it makes sense for certain villains to recur, to tie everything together. I am pleased to see Cassandra being used in Whedon's story because it moves her beyond just being a Morrison creation.
Indeed. Hell, Claremont liked her enough to make her a major part of X-Men: The End.

[Zombienorthstar]

I liked Sublime being part of Kick. It was nice and freaky.

I wouldnt mind if hed manufactured Kick...it would make sense and tie into the idea of the Third Species...i also thought hed be behind the Designer Genes in Caseys run...

I just thought it didnt make sense that it was his aerosol form...and i miss him just being the weird televangelist.

[Cayman]

I wouldnt mind if hed manufactured Kick...it would make sense and tie into the idea of the Third Species...i also thought hed be behind the Designer Genes in Caseys run...

I just thought it didnt make sense that it was his aerosol form...and i miss him just being the weird televangelist.

I liked it because he was Sublime and he got sublimated and then acted on the subliminal level.

[CE_Rap]

I liked it because he was Sublime and he got sublimated and then acted on the subliminal level.

Exactly. I liked that irony too.

[brundlefly]

Indeed. Hell, Claremont liked her enough to make her a major part of X-Men: The End.

Yeah, the part where I totally lost interest.

[mybotisgone]

Indeed. Hell, Claremont liked her enough to make her a major part of X-Men: The End.
Claremont din't liked her. He only used her to make sense out all the crap that was being put in all the books that Marvel keeped putting in the X-Men X-titles.

And by the way Whedon only using here to make sense of why Emma Frost is back stabbing the X-Men.

[dazzler_slave]

Indeed. Hell, Claremont liked her enough to make her a major part of X-Men: The End.
I still haven't gotten around to reading those yet. Have they been put out in TPB yet?

[dazzler_slave]

Claremont din't liked her. He only used her to make sense out all the crap that was being put in all the books that Marvel keeped putting in the X-Men X-titles.

And by the way Whedon only using here to make sense of why Emma Frost is back stabbing the X-Men.
I highly doubt Claremont would use her if he didn't find her at least a little interesting.

And Whedon's purpose for her is not yet clear.

You're making some broad assumptions just to try to justify your own argument.

[Cayman]

Claremont din't liked her. He only used her to make sense out all the crap that was being put in all the books that Marvel keeped putting in the X-Men X-titles.

And by the way Whedon only using here to make sense of why Emma Frost is back stabbing the X-Men.

Can you back this up?

[mybotisgone]

Can you back this up?
Back what up? You've read the same story that I did. X-Men: The End was turing into a big mess. By the way I don't blam Claremont for this he was just doing the best job with what he had. And for Astonishing X-Men well Grant Morrison keep using her in New X-Men so when Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men Cassandra Nova was the only character that made any sense.

Cassandra Nova was nothing more the a means to an end. That's all.

[Cayman]

Back what up? You've read the same story that I did. X-Men: The End was turing into a big mess. By the way I don't blam Claremont for this he was just doing the best job with what he had. And for Astonishing X-Men well Grant Morrison keep using her in New X-Men so when Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men Cassandra Nova was the only character that made any sense.

Cassandra Nova was nothing more the a means to an end. That's all.

Back up your claims to know the intentions of both Claremont and Whedon since you apparently have some sort of insider knowledge.

[brundlefly]

I still haven't gotten around to reading those yet. Have they been put out in TPB yet?

Volumes 1, 2 and 3 of X-MEN: THE END are all out in TPB.

[Jake V]

Back what up? You've read the same story that I did. X-Men: The End was turing into a big mess. By the way I don't blam Claremont for this he was just doing the best job with what he had. And for Astonishing X-Men well Grant Morrison keep using her in New X-Men so when Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men Cassandra Nova was the only character that made any sense.

Cassandra Nova was nothing more the a means to an end. That's all.
X-Men: The End could have been whatever Claremont wanted it to be. He was writing the whole thing, free of continuity, with very little editorial interferance. He used Cassandra Nova because he wanted to.

[Zombienorthstar]

Wait how can Claremont be forced to write a character...it was hardly an editor mandate and its an alterna-future so he can write whatever he likes....how was he using her?

[CE_Rap]

Back what up? You've read the same story that I did. X-Men: The End was turing into a big mess. By the way I don't blam Claremont for this he was just doing the best job with what he had. And for Astonishing X-Men well Grant Morrison keep using her in New X-Men so when Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men Cassandra Nova was the only character that made any sense.

Cassandra Nova was nothing more the a means to an end. That's all.

......but.....you do know that Whedon is writing Astonishing, right. Meaning, Morrison has nothing to do with what's happening in Astonishing. Your saying this was his plan all along, and he's not even the writer right now. That's why Cayman is asking you to back this up. Opinion is one thing, but you seem to be stated some of your opinions as fact that just isn't that credible.

Give specifics and you avoid doubt and (on the worse side) ridicule

[mybotisgone]

Fine, there is no info that Claremont hated her but there is not info that Claremont liked her as well. besides the fact that Claremont was using Cassandra Nova at the same time that Joss Whedon used her to make sense out of why Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men.

[Jake V]

Fine, there is no info that Claremont hated her but there is not info that Claremont liked her as well. besides the fact that Claremont was using Cassandra Nova at the same time that Joss Whedon used her to make sense out of why Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men.
What did Emma do to backstab the X-Men?

[Cayman]

So cool, Morrison has added a new villain to the X-Men mythos and other writers have decided to use that character. That's a positive thing. No-one seems to have shown any interesting in bringing back Warp Savant so far.

[Zombienorthstar]

Fine, there is no info that Claremont hated her but there is not info that Claremont liked her as well. besides the fact that Claremont was using Cassandra Nova at the same time that Joss Whedon used her to make sense out of why Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men.


Well a big neon sign saying he liked her might be the fact he used her when he didnt have to.

[mybotisgone]

What did Emma do to backstab the X-Men?
I'm sorry. Did you read the new Astonishing X-Men that came out where Katherine Pryde bet the crap out of Emma Frost?:evilsmile

[Jake V]

I'm sorry. Did you read the new Astonishing X-Men that came out where Katherine Pryde bet the crap out of Emma Frost?:evilsmile
Getting beaten up by Kitty is not actually backstabbing anyone. Kitty was just assuming things.

So I'll ask again. What did Emma do to backstab the X-Men?

[Hi-Fi]

Fine, there is no info that Claremont hated her but there is not info that Claremont liked her as well. besides the fact that Claremont was using Cassandra Nova at the same time that Joss Whedon used her to make sense out of why Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men.

You know what doesn't make sense? You.

[X-Factor]

Back up your claims to know the intentions of both Claremont and Whedon since you apparently have some sort of insider knowledge.

Apparently there are many people who post who have some form of telepathy.

[mybotisgone]

Getting beaten up by Kitty is not actually backstabbing anyone. Kitty was just assuming things.

So I'll ask again. What did Emma do to backstab the X-Men?
OK? How about the part where Emma mest around with Scot's mind and left Wolverine hugging a tree crying. And the fact that she let the new Hellfire Club just walk right on in.

[Jake V]

OK? How about the part where Emma mest around with Scot's mind and left Wolverine hugging a tree crying. And the fact that she let the new Hellfire Club just walk right on in.
Do we know any of that for sure? The cover of #19 shows Cyclops without his visor on, with Emma as part of the team. She could have actually fixed his mind and his powers.

Cassandra Nova (possibly) is the one who messed with Wolverine's mind.

And the entire "hellfire club" could be projections of Emma's fractured mind, created when she survived the Genoshan holocaust.

We don't know anything for sure, but don't let that stop you from assuming things.

[Beast]

Claremont din't liked her. He only used her to make sense out all the crap that was being put in all the books that Marvel keeped putting in the X-Men X-titles.

And by the way Whedon only using here to make sense of why Emma Frost is back stabbing the X-Men.
You're wrong. He wouldn't use her if he didn't like her. Being a Non-Canon book he had freedom to do whatever the hell he wanted. He chose to use Cassandra Nova as his big bad, to tie into the continuity that X-Men: The End was based on. Stop trying to make stuff up based on your bias. :p

[Beast]

Back up your claims to know the intentions of both Claremont and Whedon since you apparently have some sort of insider knowledge.
Don't mind mybotisgone. He's just making crap up as usual, and claiming it as fact.

[Beast]

Fine, there is no info that Claremont hated her but there is not info that Claremont liked her as well. besides the fact that Claremont was using Cassandra Nova at the same time that Joss Whedon used her to make sense out of why Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men.
You do realize that Claremont wrote his X-Men: The End storyline out long before Joss revealed Cassie Nova in Astonishing X-Men #12. I don't get what you're trying to say. So two writers like her enough to use her, and you're saying it was Editor forced or something? :confused:

[Jake V]

You do realize that Claremont wrote his storyline long before Joss revealed Cassie Nova in Astonishing X-Men #12.
of course he doesn't. that would require actually knowing a bit about what he's talking about.

[dazzler_slave]

Volumes 1, 2 and 3 of X-MEN: THE END are all out in TPB.
Thanks dude! It was only the three parts right?

[Beast]

Thanks dude! It was only the three parts right?
Yep. The first and third are the best, but it's a fun storyline. Especially if you're big on continuity. :)

[dazzler_slave]

Yep. The first and third are the best, but it's a fun storyline. Especially if you're big on continuity. :)
Which you KNOW I am!! Can't wait!! :D

[Citizen V]

When Grant Morrison's run ended on New X-Men back in 2004 with the Jean Grey where I think X-Men went downhill from there and keep rolling on the House of M, Decimation, and now X-men Civil War seems to me that their stories are just getting crapper and crapper. Look I'm sorry but that how I feel about the X-storys now. They just suck.:(

But anyways, What do you guys think? Did Did Jean Grey's death, House of M, and Decimation really do what Marvel said they would do?

I would say No.Everything does not mean anything,Jean will be revived someday.We are still talking about Claremont`s stories,its doubtful we will ever stop.These are just trivial events.

[streator]

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/4379/laughing20weird20on20salt20lake20flightau9.th.jpg (http://img439.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laughing20weird20on20salt20lake20flig htau9.jpg)

[Gene M.]

Back what up? You've read the same story that I did. X-Men: The End was turing into a big mess. By the way I don't blam Claremont for this he was just doing the best job with what he had. And for Astonishing X-Men well Grant Morrison keep using her in New X-Men so when Emma Frost went back stabbing on the X-Men Cassandra Nova was the only character that made any sense.

Cassandra Nova was nothing more the a means to an end. That's all.

Nobody understands what you're talking about.

[Daithi]

The mutant cure was destroyed at the time. The only remaining sample is in Hank's lab.

No it wasn't. Hank even states at the end of "The Gift" arc that the cures out there. Beside if the sample is in Hank's lab and the Astonishing team were at the meeting about Wanda then well....

[Sentinel K]

Oh yea the Shadow King. I like to see him again. For a magor X-Villain at lest he had some teeth. If you want another of Grant Morrison's bad ideas that went no where try when he tried to make Beast gay. http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=2815

With this comment, it's clear you really weren't paying attention when reading. :rolleyes:

[Beast]

No it wasn't. Hank even states at the end of "The Gift" arc that the cures out there. Beside if the sample is in Hank's lab and the Astonishing team were at the meeting about Wanda then well....
He said the ability to create more of the cure was out there. But all the samples were destroyed.

[brundlefly]

Thanks dude! It was only the three parts right?

Yep. The first and third are the best, but it's a fun storyline. Especially if you're big on continuity. :)

Agreed, Beast. Despite my prior bitching about Cassie's involvement, I liked the majority of THE END and it is a pretty fun ride for Claremont fans and continuity buffs (of which I am both). I'll refrain from any further comments on it since dazzler_slave has not read the TPBs yet. I think Book 3 only came out as recently as this month, actually.

[mybotisgone]

Agreed, Beast. Despite my prior bitching about Cassie's involvement, I liked the majority of THE END and it is a pretty fun ride for Claremont fans and continuity buffs (of which I am both). I'll refrain from any further comments on it since dazzler_slave has not read the TPBs yet. I think Book 3 only came out as recently as this month, actually.
I liked majority of The End to. But don't care for Cassie's involvement as well.