If Marvel had a "Big Three," who would they be?

[Brian Cronin]

DC has their "Big Three" of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but what about Marvel?

-Brian

[mattbib]

Going purely on public-recognizability?

Spider-Man, Hulk, and your choice of Captain America or Wolverine.

[Pól Rua]

I'm with Matt. Spidey, Hulk, Captain America.

[rick]

Going purely on public-recognizability?

Spider-Man, Hulk, and your choice of Captain America or Wolverine.

While I bet that Wolverine has huge name recognition, I would bet that Cap is more visually famous and is probably better known to a larger percentage of people.

I would think that since Wolverine doesn't wear his familier costume in the movies it keeps him from being quite as recognizable.

[Gilda Dent]

It depends on how you define that. Wonder Woman has never been one of DC's biggest sellers, but it has been continuously in publication since the early golden age, making her the most prominent female character and the third most prominent character to carry that distinction.

It terms of franchises, Marvel has four cornerstones: X-Men, Spider-Man, Avengers, and Fantastic Four. Only one of those is a character, though, so that doesn't work.

If we go by the Golden Age legacy character standard, it would have to be Captain America, The Human Torch, and . . . well, that's pretty much it for Marvel's Golden Age legacy. The Human Torch doesn't really fit, so we can dump him, but Cap does fit neatly into that niche of not being a big seller consistently, but having a nice Golden and Silver age presense and being a prominent character from the Silver Age through now. He's also huge as a corporate symbol to the general public.

Spider-Man is the corporate flagship character. He's like Babe Ruth--a first ballot guarantee and anyone who doesn't agree is just being obstianate.

So it really comes down to who the third representative should be. The X-Men and the Fantastic Four as franchises are good candidates, and I go with the FF because of their strong presense the first decade and continued viability through their entire run. The X-Men are a bigger franchise, but they're relatively late comers to the forefront.

However, an individual character is what we need. Someone with early potential, a presense through the Silver and Bronze ages to the present, and general public recognition. I think the Hulk works well here, and I suspect he's going to be more recognizable to more people outside comics than Wolverine, despite Wolvie's enormous popularity within the comics world.

So, my picks are Spider-Man, Captain America, and the Hulk.

[Reptisaurus!]

While I bet that Wolverine has huge name recognition, I would bet that Cap is more visually famous and is probably better known to a larger percentage of people.

I would think that since Wolverine doesn't wear his familier costume in the movies it keeps him from being quite as recognizable.

I dunno. Wolverine's fresher.

I'm sure there are a buncha people who collected Captain America comics faithfully in 1945 or ever 1981 when they were nine who'd respond with a "Uhhhh... That almost looks sort of familiar" if you show them a picture of Captain America nowadays.

Edit: So no big three. Spidey, Hulk, Cap, Wolverine.

[rick]

I dunno. Wolverine's fresher.

I'm sure there are a buncha people who collected Captain America comics faithfully in 1945 or ever 1981 when they were nine who'd respond with a "Uhhhh... That almost looks sort of familiar" if you show them a picture of Captain America nowadays.

Edit: So no big three. Spidey, Hulk, Cap, Wolverine.


See, this is where I’m forced to use the ”Old Fart” test.

My Mom, Uncle and Father-in-Law, who are all around 70, would be able to tell you it was Cap if you showed them a picture of him.

But none of the three would have the slightest idea of who Wolverine was even if you pointed out the X-Movies.

Now I know that isn’t a scientific answer, but I figure that if the old farts don’t know who you are, then you aren’t quite as all encompassing famous as you might think you are.

[Apathy Boy]

Is Captain American really that recognizable a figure? I think most folks would recognize the name (heck, it even made it into a Guns 'n' Roses song), but I don't think the general public knows what he looks like or anything about the character.

If you're talking about the non-comics reading population, Marvel only has two big guns: Spider-Man and the Hulk. I don't think you could consider anyone else to be universally known. Wolverine wouldn't even rate; betcha most movie watchers know him best as "that guy Hugh Jackman played."

[mattbib]

See, this is where I’m forced to use the ”Old Fart” test.

My Mom, Uncle and Father-in-Law, who are all around 70, would be able to tell you it was Cap if you showed them a picture of him.

But none of the three would have the slightest idea of who Wolverine was even if you pointed out the X-Movies.

Now I know that isn’t a scientific answer, but I figure that if the old farts don’t know who you are, then you aren’t quite as all encompassing famous as you might think you are.But they'd be cancelled out by the converse...by those younger, non-comic readers who'd have no frame of reference for Captain America but WOULD know who Wolverine is if you showed a picture of him (with claws extended of course). I mean...three movies and two television series in the past two decades is a hell of a lot more media exposure than Cap's received.

[hmnut73]

Going purely on public-recognizability?

Spider-Man, Hulk, and your choice of Captain America or Wolverine.

I would agree with that except I would make it

Spider-Man, Wolverine and your choice of Captain America or Hulk.

[Iangould]

Used to be that the big three in relation to The Avengers at least were Thor, Cap and Iron Man.

[Mr. Palmer]

Spidey, Cap, and the Hulk.

[Cei-U!]

Marvel's Big Three are Spidey, Hulk and the X-Men (considered as a collective entity). Timely's Big Three are Captain America, Human Torch and Sub-Mariner. :D

Cei-U!
I summon the creative weaseling!

[Nate Grey]

I always thought it was Cap, Iron Man, and Thor. If one of the three HAS to be a woman, than I'm not sure...Storm maybe?

[jerrymcl89]

There are a lot of ways to look at this. If you are looking for the three characters who have the in-story respect that Batman, Superman, and WW have within the DCU, I'd guess it would have to be Iron Man and Captain America (which is why they are the leaders of the warring factions in Civil War) and Spidey (which is why he's the pivotal character in CW).


If you view it from a publishing standpoint, I'd say that the anaolog to Superman is Spiderman - they are the respective faces of the two companies. The analog of Batman would be Wolverine - the darker,edgier, cooler character than Superman or Spiderman. And the analog to Wonder Woman would be Captain America - the critical anchor of the marquee team book, but someone who is much more famous than commerically successful if you look at his or her own title.

[suedenim]

Marvel often *has* had a "Big Three" for marketing purposes, and it's Spider-Man, the Hulk, and Captain America. Look at ads or other things portraying Marvel to the "outside world" and I bet you see those 3 specific characters together quite a bit.

More recently, Wolverine gets added to the mix, though I don't think he displaces anyone so much as making it a "Big 4."

[slexicDys]

isnt illuminati kind of like the big three, except with more?

[mattbib]

isnt illuminati kind of like the big three, except with more?Not in terms of purpose or recognizability, no.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Howard The Duck, Night Nurse and 'Rusty and Skids'.

[Josh S]

Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America

[stealthwise]

Howard The Duck, Night Nurse and 'Rusty and Skids'.

Damn, I see I"m too late to do the snarky reply.

[Tommy]

It really does depend upon how one defines it.

Captain America, Human Torch, and Namor would be the golden age heroes.

Professor Xavier, Captain America, and Mr. Fantastic would be the leaders.

Spider-man, Hulk, and Wolverine or Captain America would be the public recognition.

Hyperion, Nighthawk, and Power Princess would be the analogs.

But really I think Marvel has a big four. The Fantastic Four.

[Agentum]

Spider-man is Marvels nr1, so big that he is almost as known as Superman.
After him it is harder to tell really maybe Hulk is known by a wide public thanks to the tv show.
But the third one, i don't know x-men i would say, known as a group by people outside comics, but the individual names of the members is not known to that extent.

But this was just based on most known heroes to the world(remember that outside USA some of your big heroes is not that famous at all, like Cap. America etc.).

I mean Wolverine sells more books than Hulk so he is bigger inside the comic comunity.

[curefreak]

obviously there most popular ones are spidey,captain america, and wolverine.

[Alan2099]

Howard The Duck, Night Nurse and 'Rusty and Skids'.
The sad thing is, Howard the Duck is relatively well known in certain circles simply for that horrible horrible movie. Granted, I'm not sure many of those people actually know he's a comic character, but at least he's got something going for him.

[theflyingfrogunderdog]

I would say Marvel's big three used to be Spidey, Hulk and Cap, but now i think Cap has been surpassed by Wolverine due to all the exposure.

If Captain America is one of the big three, i think a major motion picture would've been made by now, but no Captain America movie has been in the works. Is it because of the critically condemned war in Iraq that historically patriotic American cultural icons like Superman ("truth, justice and all that other stuff") and Captain America are now taboo in Hollywood?

DC has their "Big Three" of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman

I've never thought of Wonder Woman as being one of DC's big three any more than the Flash and Green Lantern. Sure, there was a Wonder Woman tv show in the '70s that is remembered, but does that make the difference?

[Tommy]

Sure, there was a Wonder Woman tv show in the '70s that is remembered, but does that make the difference?
Yes. Yes it does. Not only was Wonder Woman a TV show, but she was also in the Super Friends. Which makes her extremely culturally prominent in the United States. My 70 year old parents know Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin.

[CaptChucky]

Spider-Man, Hulk and Captain America. Check out general merchandising, etc. and I think you'll see they tend to be the most popular. Wolverine with the claws is a little too violent looking for most merchandising applications.

[Reptisaurus!]

Yes. Yes it does. Not only was Wonder Woman a TV show, but she was also in the Super Friends. Which makes her extremely culturally prominent in the United States. My 70 year old parents know Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin.

Right. Wonder Woman's been a constant mass-media presence since her inception. In terms of iconic value and name recognition, she's much, much, much better known that Flash and Green Lantern across every age group.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

If Captain America is one of the big three, i think a major motion picture would've been made by now, but no Captain America movie has been in the works. Is it because of the critically condemned war in Iraq that historically patriotic American cultural icons like Superman ("truth, justice and all that other stuff") and Captain America are now taboo in Hollywood?


Have you seen the Captain America movie they did make?

Because if you haven't, just track down a copy and watch it. You'll understand why no one is willing to take the risk on another one.

(I hope whoever gave him plastic ears never worked again)

[theflyingfrogunderdog]

Have you seen the Captain America movie they did make?

Yes i did and yes it was rotten, but so was the Fantastic Four and Punisher b-movies, but Hollywood made movies from those comics after the b-movie versions were made and ironically, the second Punisher movie was even worse than the original b-movie version. :confused:

[Tommy]

Right. Wonder Woman's been a constant mass-media presence since her inception. In terms of iconic value and name recognition, she's much, much, much better known that Flash and Green Lantern across every age group.
In these things I always go by who my parents know. If my parents know them, they are iconic. And here is the list:

Spider-man
Superman
Batman
Robin
Wonder Woman
Catwoman
The Joker
Dr. Doom
The Fantastic Four (not really as separate people)
The X-men (they know only Storm and Professor X as individuals, but both call Wolverine "Badger")
Magneto
Dr. Octopus

[Mike Smash!]

The Incredible Hulk, Spider-Man and Captain America

[Punch]

I would say Marvel's big three used to be Spidey, Hulk and Cap, but now i think Cap has been surpassed by Wolverine due to all the exposure.

While I don't think Wolverine can replace anyone, he's been slowly seeping into collective superhero knowledge.

If Captain America is one of the big three, i think a major motion picture would've been made by now, but no Captain America movie has been in the works. Is it because of the critically condemned war in Iraq that historically patriotic American cultural icons like Superman ("truth, justice and all that other stuff") and Captain America are now taboo in Hollywood?

Film Projects Being Developed by Marvel (Partial List)
The first two films are anticipated for release in 2008.
Ant-Man, Marvel - Writer and director engaged
Captain America, Marvel - Writer engaged
The Incredible Hulk, Marvel - Writer and director engaged
Iron Man, Marvel - Writer and director engaged, slated for May 2, 2008
Nick Fury, Marvel - Writer engaged
Thor, Marvel - Writer engaged

I do agree that a Captain America movie will be tricky to pull off because of current affairs,though a smart filmaker would use that to his advantage.


I've never thought of Wonder Woman as being one of DC's big three any more than the Flash and Green Lantern. Sure, there was a Wonder Woman tv show in the '70s that is remembered, but does that make the difference?

It makes a huge difference.
A whole generation grew up with Wonder Woman because of it, who never would have seen the comics.

[Agnew420]

If we go by the Golden Age legacy character standard, it would have to be Captain America, The Human Torch, and . . . well, that's pretty much it for Marvel's Golden Age legacy.

Namor the Sub Mariner. He was the first with Human Torch

[Agnew420]

If we're talking power based big three, then Batman wouldn't even figure into DC's big 3. Obviously that is not the case.
As for Marvel's big 3...

Based on pure Iconism:
1. Spider-Man
2. Hulk
3. Thor

Based on power:
1. Hulk
2. Thor
3. Ms Marvel

[pennywisdom]

The Incredible Hulk, Spider-Man and Captain America
That's a good idea, and very original. How did you come up with it?

[dancj]

If we're talking power based big three, then Batman wouldn't even figure into DC's big 3.
Obviously you never read Grant Morrison's JLA run. Batman could beat the rest of the team with both hands tied behind his back under the right writer

[Genis101]

Based on being known to non-comic readers?

Captain America
Spiderman
The Hulk


Based on being respectful and a hero/icon to comic readers and the characters themselves?

Captain America
The Thing
Thor (The Real one)

[howyadoin]

Is Captain American really that recognizable a figure? I think most folks would recognize the name (heck, it even made it into a Guns 'n' Roses song)...And a Kinks song.

[cactusmaac]

Spidey, Captain America and Wolverine.

[captain_unimpressive]

Spidey, Captain America and Wolverine.

I'd have to go with that.
Hulk doesn't seem like a Big Three type of character. He could never work with other heroes, so a Trinity-esque book wouldn't be feasible, and Thor, being a Norse myth, just doesn't fit with the other two.

[Loren]

I've always been a DC guy and not much of a Marvel fan, so from my quasi-outsider perspective, it's Cap, Spider-Man, and Hulk.

And on this subject, Marvel is releasing these Heroes & Villains Bookends (http://i.toynewsi.com/g/index.php?mode=view&album=Diamond%2FHeroes_And_Villians_Bookends&pic=Bookends.jpg&dispsize=600&start=0), featuring four of their biggest heroes and villains? The hero choices? Cap, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wolverine.

[CE_Rap]

It's definitely Spider-man, Captain America, and the Hulk. I don't think Wolverine is replacing anyone. It seems they are just extending it to a big "4" for his purporses.

Spidey leads teh charge for sure. Tons of tv shows, plenty of movies, an infinite ass load of merchandising. He, alone, is MArvel's truest face. REcognizable ANYWHERE.

Hulk is next. I thikn everyone knows Hulk. I think EVERYONE understands HULK SMASH!! If you say that in public, pretty much everyone will get teh meaning, even if they don't quite remember the face.

Even without the aid of a tv show and a horrible/horrible movie (**sidenote** You tube has a hilarious music video of the TEAM AMERICA theme song "America F___ YEAH!", but they use footage from the Captain America movie. Funny stuff) Captain America is still a very well known figure. I'd say he IS known worldwide, but also hated outside of America.

In terms of actual merchandising, Wolverine is gaining Spidey status, and that's just the truth. The claws aren't nearly a 1/4 as violent in the way Punisher holding an H&K MP5 is. The little hairy F___ is everywhere. And if i see Spidey, he's usually in the same frame, or not far behind. Those claws are HIGHLY recognizable, with or without a banana suit.

[K'Nort]

Spider-Man, Hulk, and Cap.

I'm always surprised by how many non-comic readers know Captain America. And don't know Wolverine. No theories to explain it.

About five years ago, a thread on I'm pretty sure a different board asked people to ask real life folks like coworkers to name three DC heroes. (They were trying to tell whether #3 would be Wonder Woman or Green Lantern. Pre-JLU.)

I asked about ten coworkers of varying ages. Even though I specified DC, the first two names I usually got were Spider-Man and Captain America.

[AllisterH]

Ok, serious question.

How do people know about Captain America?

In the last 40 years, Captain America has made only a few non comicbook appearances in the mass media.

He has appeared in a couple of Spiderman episodes (both the 90s series AND the 80s one with Iceman and Firestar), appeared in a couple of Capcom games and arguably marvel's wrost comic book movie ever (the 1st Punisher movie is at least watchable....)

So how do people know him or is this just because his uniform is iconic because I don't see the bleedthrough a la Wonderwoman to the non-comic book buying public?

To anyone under the age of 40, if they play videogames or watch cartoons, we at least know something about Wolverine (he's short, he's got a healing factor and he's Canadian) but what can the average person say about Captain America?

[Punch]

Cap had a TV show or TV movies back in the 70s

[Person Man]

I'll dare to be different. Thor, Reed Richards, and Hulk. You get the biggest mythology-based hero, over-the-top science hero, and of course Hulk is the strongest there is.

[Shellhead]

At the moment, there is a generational split between Captain America and Wolverine. Spider-man is #1 of course, and Hulk still has huge recognition with baby boomers and gen x-age folks due to that primetime tv show. It's sad to say, but the Captain America fans are dying off and gradually being replaced by Wolverine fans.

One handy way that I like to compare name recognition is to do Google searchs and compare number of hits. "Captain America" produced 3,200,000 hits. "Wolverine" is a problematic search, because that would yield too many hits regarding a certain animal or a certain university in Michigan, so I went with a slightly more restrictive search, " Wolverine X-Men". It would be understandable if that more restrictive search failed to get as many hits as "Captain America" but, actually "Wolverine X-Men" got 4,430,000 hits. Of course, the internet will skew young on issues like this, because young people use computers more than people who were alive during World War II.

Because the Hulk movie disappointed so many people, and the boring Bruce Jones run on the comic also failed to sell well, I expect Hulk to gradually decline in popularity unless somebody does something well enough to revive the franchise.

[G. Wayne]

Publicly
1. Spider-Man
2. Wolverine
3. The Hulk

Iconically viewed in-Universe
1. Spider-Man
2. Captain America
3. Thor* or the Silver Surfer

*I don't want to say Thor, as even though he's a pretty thoroughly established and fleshed out character in Marvel, he's not a Marvel original. Though if you don't count that as criteria, then definitely him.

[Arilou]

For the recognizability I'd have to say Spidey, Hulk and Wolverine.

For the "respect" factor it's the FF as a whole, Cap and Iron-Man.

[Shellhead]

Iconically viewed in-Universe
1. Spider-Man


Is he? In the Marvel Universe, Spider-man mostly fights crime just in New York City. He may be unusually active in terms of how much crime he fights, but people might think of him as more of a local hero than a famous icon across the planet. The Fantastic Four, Captain America, Iron Man and Thor are probably more famous and more popular on Earth-Marvel.

[Mister Mets]

Spider-Man, and Wolverine are no brainers, given the success of the movies, and their books.

For #3, I'd go with Captain America.
He's a great character, and has been in excellent storylines.
Within the Marvel Universe, he has been revered more than any other hero.
He has the most history of the Marvel heroes, as he dates back from the Golden Age.
The supersoldier has also become a staple of science fiction.

Note- The Fantastic 4 as a team may top Captain America, simply because they're the first (and best) superhero family, and have great name recognition.

[Mister Mets]

At the moment, there is a generational split between Captain America and Wolverine. Spider-man is #1 of course, and Hulk still has huge recognition with baby boomers and gen x-age folks due to that primetime tv show. It's sad to say, but the Captain America fans are dying off and gradually being replaced by Wolverine fans.

One handy way that I like to compare name recognition is to do Google searchs and compare number of hits. "Captain America" produced 3,200,000 hits. "Wolverine" is a problematic search, because that would yield too many hits regarding a certain animal or a certain university in Michigan, so I went with a slightly more restrictive search, " Wolverine X-Men". It would be understandable if that more restrictive search failed to get as many hits as "Captain America" but, actually "Wolverine X-Men" got 4,430,000 hits. Of course, the internet will skew young on issues like this, because young people use computers more than people who were alive during World War II.

Because the Hulk movie disappointed so many people, and the boring Bruce Jones run on the comic also failed to sell well, I expect Hulk to gradually decline in popularity unless somebody does something well enough to revive the franchise.

The number of hits you get when you google a term is a decent indication of a character's popularity.

In this case, the Hulk trumps Captain America almost 7 to 1.

The quality of the Hulk movie/ Bruce Jones's run is irrelvant here, as the movie did make a significant amount of money.

I think Greg Pak is foing a great job of reviving interest in the franchise, especially with the upcoming World War Hulk.

[90'sCartoonMan]

In the last 40 years, Captain America has made only a few non comicbook appearances in the mass media.

You're forgetting the two Ultimate Avengers movies, which focused on Captain America more than Hulk.

In fact, I think the new Big Three could be Spider-Man, Captain America, and Iron Man. Stark's a big player in Civil War, and he's got a movie and an animated series coming out (and hopefully the release of a box set of his 90's series). And once the movie hits, they'll realize Iron Man is MUCH more marketable than Spider-Man or Wolverine. Iron Man's various suits could almost make him as popular to boys as anime characters these days. He probably looks cooler to the general public than Spider-Man or Captain America, I expect to see him in more Marvel group pictures come 2008.

Hulk's popularity is fading, and Wolverine has never had a movie or tv show by himself (a couple video games, though). Iron Man could surpass them.

I've always seen Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor the equivalent of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. I mean, yeah, there's no way any hero could be as recognizable as Superman and Batman, especially since Marvel likes to diversify (in 2006 alone, Superman has been the subject of 1 movie and had a main character role in 3 television shows, 4 if you count Krypto, all aimed at different demographics). If comics in general had a Big Three, it'd be Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. But considering Thor's series has been "on hiatus" twice in the past decade, his in-comic status doesn't translate to his out-of-comic status.

[BizarroBeachHead]

Hulk's popularity is fading, and Wolverine has never had a movie or tv show by himself (a couple video games, though). Iron Man could surpass them.

But Wolverine was the main character of the X-Men movies, especially in X3: The Wolverine Show. Also, what's this talk about a solo movie coming along? Also he was a major player in all the cartoons. And like you said, he's had a slew of games devoted to him, maybe more than the X-Men(but that's probably false now that I think about it).

My point is, I doubt Iron Man will surpass Wolverine. He's A #1 The Bomb!

Also, while I don't dispute that Hulk's popularity is fading, he's still pretty prevelant in pop culture. I think that has to do specifically with the Jeckyl/Hyde personality, people pick up on that.

[90'sCartoonMan]

But Wolverine was the main character of the X-Men movies, especially in X3: The Wolverine Show. Also, what's this talk about a solo movie coming along? Also he was a major player in all the cartoons. And like you said, he's had a slew of games devoted to him, maybe more than the X-Men(but that's probably false now that I think about it).

There's no disputing that, Wolverine is the most popular of the X-Men and the most recognizable, but we can't assume that all X-fans (and fans of the shows and movies) love Wolverine. I think a true test of his popularity would be to show him on his own in a movie or TV show with little or no mention of the X-Men and to see how that does.

[G. Wayne]

Is he? In the Marvel Universe, Spider-man mostly fights crime just in New York City. He may be unusually active in terms of how much crime he fights, but people might think of him as more of a local hero than a famous icon across the planet. The Fantastic Four, Captain America, Iron Man and Thor are probably more famous and more popular on Earth-Marvel.

I should have mentioned that I was referring to being viewed as an icon by other heroes/powered characters. I get what you're saying about him being actively mostly in New York City, but I think the same thing about regions of activity can be said for Batman, so there are some exceptions.

[nateslate8]

Right. Wonder Woman's been a constant mass-media presence since her inception. In terms of iconic value and name recognition, she's much, much, much better known that Flash and Green Lantern across every age group.

Doesn't anyone remember the mini called "Trinity". It had Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in it. DC practically certified their "big three" status with that mini.

Here's a question: what if Marvel wrote their own "trinity" who would be in it? My guess would be Spidey, Hulk, and Wolverine. Those three make sense together. Cap thrown into the mix just make one go, "huh"?

[Reptisaurus!]

Here's a question: what if Marvel wrote their own "trinity" who would be in it? My guess would be Spidey, Hulk, and Wolverine. Those three make sense together. Cap thrown into the mix just make one go, "huh"?

Well, Cap's been around longer, and there's a huge number of people over the age of 30-35 who wouldn't know Wolverine but would recognize Cap.

[AllisterH]

You're forgetting the two Ultimate Avengers movies, which focused on Captain America more than Hulk.

.

No offense, but 2 movies that a lot of people didn't see doesn't indicate to me that Captain America is a viable character.

Seriously, do I even need to list how many properties this year and last Wolverine has appeared on?

When Captain America gets his own game, then we can talk about mass appeal.

[Reptisaurus!]

No offense, but 2 movies that a lot of people didn't see doesn't indicate to me that Captain America is a viable character.

Seriously, do I even need to list how many properties this year and last Wolverine has appeared on?

When Captain America gets his own game, then we can talk about mass appeal.

Again, dude.

If you pretend that people over the age of 35 don't exist, then your argument works fine. And you have a future in advertising.

If you don't, it kind of falls apart.

Sure, I believe you that Wolverine has a videogame BUT Captain America shows up or is name-checked in songs by The Kinks, Guns 'N Roses, Jimmy Buffet, Bill Cosby routines, Doonesbury, and the TV show Lost. (And showed up in the Avengers video-game too, back in the day. Lemme tell you about "arcades" some time.)

Basically, Cap shows up in a much broader spectrum of popular media than Wolverine. And there's a decent chance that your Grandpa knows who Captain America is.

[stealthwise]

There are four, easily.

Spidey, Hulk, Cap and Wolvie.

If I had to drop one, it'd be Cap though. Wolverine has been in far too many things since the 80s to discount his recognizability for almost all ages.

[G. Wayne]

There are four, easily.

Spidey, Hulk, Cap and Wolvie.

If I had to drop one, it'd be Cap though. Wolverine has been in far too many things since the 80s to discount his recognizability for almost all ages.

That's pretty much the same conclusion my friend and I came to earlier today.

[carpboy]

When Captain America gets his own game, then we can talk about mass appeal.

He's already had one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America_and_the_Avengers)

[AllisterH]

He's already had one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America_and_the_Avengers)

I can't believe I forgot about that. That sucked many a quarter from me and friends.....

[Gingold]

Marvel's "Big Three" are Spidey, the FF, and the X-Men.

[DLFerguson]

Captain America=Man
Thor=Myth
Iron Man=Machine

[The Mutt]

I did an experiment at work. I gave an index card to twenty of my fellow employees and asked them to write down, as quickly as they could, seven superheroes. None of the twenty were comic fans. I tallied the results and these were the most mentioned:

1- Superman
2- Batman
3- Robin
4- Hulk
5- Spider-Man
6- Wonder Woman
7- Aquaman

[nateslate8]

I did an experiment at work. I gave an index card to twenty of my fellow employees and asked them to write down, as quickly as they could, seven superheroes. None of the twenty were comic fans. I tallied the results and these were the most mentioned:

1- Superman
2- Batman
3- Robin
4- Hulk
5- Spider-Man
6- Wonder Woman
7- Aquaman

Here's something else that might interest people:

We've been going back and forth about whether or not Wolverine is a more iconic property than Captain America or vice versa.

Well, when I was in the sixth grade (in 1989), I took a survey as part of a class assignment of over 100 students of who their favorite superhero comic was. I was just getting into comics, so I included X-men, Avengers, and JLA. Almost no one picked the X-men or the Avengers (the X cartoon hadn't been out yet). The top pick was Batman (the first Keaton movie was out that year), second Superman, third was spiderman, and fourth was captain America. Hulk came fifth and wolverine didn't even rank in the top ten.

It's funny that I remember it. But, I honestly do remember wolverine's low ranking because I was very disappointed. I was really getting into the X-men then and wanted him to get votes among my friends.

So, one could argue that before 1990, Wolverine wasn't even a factor in the equation.

[BizarroBeachHead]

So, one could argue that before 1990, Wolverine wasn't even a factor in the equation.
I really don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that. But that does help to show the boom that Wolverine had throughout the nineties.

[jaguarshark]

I can't believe I forgot about that. That sucked many a quarter from me and friends.....
Holy shit, I don't know why, but I was thinking about that game just the other day. I was going to google it, thanks for posting that link!
And my vote for Marvel's Big Three would be Hawkeye. He doesn't need the other two.

[captain_unimpressive]

Holy shit, I don't know why, but I was thinking about that game just the other day. I was going to google it, thanks for posting that link!
And my vote for Marvel's Big Three would be Hawkeye. He doesn't need the other two.

A purple-costumed Green Arrow swipe? Meh.

[Omega Alpha]

Spider-Man, Hulk and Wolverine. Cap. America is not that popular outside the United States.

Although it should be really Spidey, X-men and Fantastic Four, if you count groups.

[Dr. Banner]

Most people would say Spidey, Wolverine and Hulk, and I think even Joe Q agrees, what with the mural he created at the Palm restaurant:

So I had to simplify it a bit and judiciously pick my characters. I picked Spidey for the obvious reason; he is everything that is Marvel. Wolvie is our X-Men rep and he’s also one the most recognizable movie stars we have - most of the female employees at the Palm only recognize Wolverine because of Hugh Jackman. The Hulk is there because he is one of our most internationally recognized characters.

[Loren]

Other than the fact that DC has a accepted "Big Three," why should we try to limit Marvel's top tier to three characters? I can't think of any external reason why 3 should be the magic number.

I say this because I think it's pretty obvious now that Marvel simply doesn't have a Big "Three." They have a "Big Four." Cap, Hulk, Spidey, and Wolverine. It's that simple. Those are the four names that most everyone keeps trying to pick from, they're the four on the 'Mount Rushmore' item I shared previously, and they're the four figures I saw packaged together at Barnes & Noble yesterday as some kind of Premiere Marvel Heroes box set.

Captain America, Spider-Man, the Hulk, and Wolverine. Marvel's "Big Four."

[The Batman]

I think that Marvel really only has a one big icon and it's Spider-Man. He's got an easily recognized distinctive look, he represents the Marvel approach of real people with real problems under the masks better than any other character Marvel has, and he's probably got as much, if not more, exposure outside of comics than any other Marvel character.

[dupersuper]

Spider-man, Hulk, Captain America. Yup; a Canadian just picked Cap over Alpha Flights' one time associate. Logan's cool, but I wouldn't say iconic.

[Aaron King]

I was just thinking about this today, with no relation to this thread, and I was wondering, "Considering the Marvel Revolution of the sixties, what characters have really exemplified what Stan, Jack, Steve, et al. were attempting?" I came up with Spider-Man, Hulk, and Daredevil. All three have their heroic sides balanced by their human sides. All three have movies. I would argue that Captain America and Wolverine both have too many interpretations to qualify for being instantly recognizable as any single thing. Meanwhile, I can boil my three down:
Spider-Man: Great power means great responsibility. Nerd vs. Hero. Personal vs. Public.
Hulk: Power vs. Restraint. Multiple Personalities vs. Multiple Personalities. Violence vs. Science.
Daredevil: Justice vs. Vigilantism. Handicap vs. Extranormal. Anger vs. Calm.
Maybe it's just my lack of familiarity (or too much) with Cap and Wolvie, but I feel like too many hands have created too many interpretations of them.

[Joey Deadcat]

Spider-man, Hulk, Captain America. Yup; a Canadian just picked Cap over Alpha Flights' one time associate. Logan's cool, but I wouldn't say iconic.

Exactly! Thank you! While Wolverine may be a popular character he's not an iconic one. Spider-Man, Hulk, and Cap clearly are. It's not about who appeared in blockbuster movies or video games.

[AllisterH]

Ok, I'll ask again.

How the hell do people know about Captain America? I'm somewhat surprised by this but I'm kind of realizing that I have to accept it but it still makes my head scratch.

He has never had a decent movie (even Howard the Duck's movie is more well-known that Cap's).

He pretty much has never starred in a cartoon (a couple of guest appearances)

Sure, during the 40s he had the 3rd highest selling comic after Captain Marvel and Superman in that order but I don't see people listing Captain Marvel even in DC's 2nd tier of heroes to saty nothing of the first so what has allowed Cap to stay in the public consciousness?

Is it the fact that in parades with superhero characters, Captain America always gets a place?

Is the costume that iconic in combination with the name?

[Reptisaurus!]

Ok, I'll ask again.

How the hell do people know about Captain America? I'm somewhat surprised by this but I'm kind of realizing that I have to accept it but it still makes my head scratch.

He has never had a decent movie (even Howard the Duck's movie is more well-known that Cap's).

He pretty much has never starred in a cartoon (a couple of guest appearances)

Sure, during the 40s he had the 3rd highest selling comic after Captain Marvel and Superman in that order but I don't see people listing Captain Marvel even in DC's 2nd tier of heroes to saty nothing of the first so what has allowed Cap to stay in the public consciousness?

Is it the fact that in parades with superhero characters, Captain America always gets a place?

Is the costume that iconic in combination with the name?

Yeah. That.

Also: Longevity.

And Marvel did a hell of a lot of merchandizing in the seventies. There's quite a few Captain America lunchboxes, et al. out there, so if you're above a certain age you were exposed to him even if you didn't read comics.

Also, more kids read comics back when Cap was top-Marvel tier than nowadays.

[Cam63]

Captain America, Thor and Iron Man or Spiderman, Wolverine and the Hulk.

[Ixion]

Spider-Man, Hulk, Wolverine, in that order.

Spider-Man and Hulk aren't debatable. I think globally Wolverine is more recognizable and profitable for Marvel than Captain America. I know where I live (the U.K) more people would recognise Wolverine, a lot more.

[The Mirrorball Man]

DC has their "Big Three" of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but what about Marvel?
Jack Kirby, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.

[Cam63]

Jack Kirby, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.

Heh. Good answer.

[Luc Star]

Originally Posted by Brian Cronin
DC has their "Big Three" of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but what about Marvel?

Marvel’s most iconic characters (as in known all over the world and not just the U.S.A) in relationship to DC’s Big Three: -

1. Batman = Spider-man

2. Superman = Hulk

3. Wonder Woman = Captain America

You know the funny thing here. Outside the U.S.A., or any other first world countries - where comics are not so readily obtainable, I doubt that many people are even aware of the fact that Superman and Spiderman are owned by two different companies.

[nateslate8]

Marvel’s most iconic characters (as in known all over the world and not just the U.S.A) in relationship to DC’s Big Three: -

1. Batman = Spider-man

2. Superman = Hulk

3. Wonder Woman = Captain America

You know the funny thing here. Outside the U.S.A., or any other first world countries - where comics are not so readily obtainable, I doubt that many people are even aware of the fact that Superman and Spiderman are owned by two different companies.

I doubt that most people IN our own country know that they're owned by two different companies. Seriously, ask 20 people that you know have personally never step foot into a comicbook shop and ask them who owns what and they won't know.

[MartinRedmond]

None of them.

[Erisu Kimu]

Spider-Man, Incredible Hulk and Captain America.

I also think The Punisher, Iron Man and Ghost Rider are recognizable for their looks. Well, I hope so.

[ACertainMrDoe]

... that at least when he was with Buscema on his run of Conan the Barbarian that the Big 3 in that time would have been Spider-Man, Hulk and Conan.

Citation from the afterword of one of the DH Conan Chronicles collections.

[suedenim]

I vaguely remember a running subplot in some '80s Spider-Man comics where Peter Parker got into trouble for "vigilante justice" or somesuch due to stopping some criminal while in his Peter Parker identity. My memory's hazy on the details, I'm thinking it probably never actually went to trial, and was more a Daily Bugle subplot (i.e., the paper's anti-vigilanteism stand vs. the actions of its freelance photographer.) The whole setup was kinda lame, too, as I recall, but it might be worth checking out for legal ramifications.

EDIT: This was supposed to go in the Superhero Trials thread....

[TheLazy]

Again, dude.

If you pretend that people over the age of 35 don't exist, then your argument works fine. And you have a future in advertising.

At the risk of sounding nit picky, I study advertising and we get taught that the primairy demographic is 18-30. ie, young profesionals with lots of money and no responsibilties to spend it on or Young parents. Remember that Kids adverts aren't just aimed at kids, where do you think the money is coming from?

On that basis, I'd say Spidey, Hulk, Wolverine. Two have big movies and the other has a big Pop-culture refrerence. Hell I'd even venture to say that more people know about hulk than Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde.

A simple test that you could try if it really bothered you is to ask a dozen or so friends a feature of each of the characters, and I'd think more people would mention the claws than the shield.


You know the funny thing here. Outside the U.S.A., or any other first world countries - where comics are not so readily obtainable, I doubt that many people are even aware of the fact that Superman and Spiderman are owned by two different companies.

This comes across as extremely obnoxious. Not all countries outside the US are third world you know. Most of my friends know the difference, albiet from the movies and cartoons, but only two of us are dedicated comic readers.

[stealthwise]

Hell I'd even venture to say that more people know about hulk than Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde.


And I would say that you'd be wrong, given that the Jekyll/Hyde archetype is an extremely popular one, and well-known by nearly everyone, whether or not they have read the book. Same with Frankenstein, another Hulk predecessor.

[Reptisaurus!]

At the risk of sounding nit picky, I study advertising and we get taught that the primairy demographic is 18-30. ie, young profesionals with lots of money and no responsibilties to spend it on or Young parents. Remember that Kids adverts aren't just aimed at kids, where do you think the money is coming from?


So you're saying that specifically, there are adds for X-men toys aimed at adults.

In other words: There are adds for toys based on a PG-13 movie that doesn't, as far as I know, currently have a media tie-in aimed at a younger audience, aimed at the parents of children who are young enough not to have their own spending money.

You're also saying that parents can not just identify the BRAND (X-men, Transformers, Pokemon) but individual elements within the brand. (Wolverine, Optimus Prime.... uh, some Pokemon. I'm 30! What the hell do I know from Pokemon!)

My two years experience as a Mall Santa suggests the exact opposite.

[Luc Star]

Originally Posted by TheLazy

This comes across as extremely obnoxious.

Sorry you thought I sounded “extremely obnoxious”. I was simply being frank.

Not all countries outside the US are third world you know.

Secondly, you are absolutely right. Not all countries outside the US are “third world”.

Though, I do believe that most countries which do not fall under the category of "developed countries" are referred to as “developing countries”.

Thirdly, as you stated yourself: -

Most of my friends know the difference, albiet from the movies and cartoons, but only two of us are dedicated comic readers.

Now, I’m going to go out on a whim here and say that your friends circle… doesn’t include each and every person who resides in your vicinity/city. It’s definitely possible… but until you say so - I’m going to go ahead and assume otherwise.

Based on this assumption, I’m going to state that - simply because your friends know the difference, doesn’t mean everyone else in your city will know the difference as well.

Later...

[TheLazy]

And I would say that you'd be wrong, given that the Jekyll/Hyde archetype is an extremely popular one, and well-known by nearly everyone, whether or not they have read the book. Same with Frankenstein, another Hulk predecessor.

Okay, I disagree but im not infalible, so I may be wrong. Example, my 9 year old sister knows who the Hulk is, hell I could do the'angry' qoute and shed know what I meant whilst having no clue who Jeckyl and Hyde are, but thats personal experience and I no way asserts the publics general knowledge, so I conceed that I may be wrong, and running with that thought...


Now, I’m going to go out on a whim here and say that your friends circle… doesn’t include each and every person who resides in your vicinity/city. It’s definitely possible… but until you say so - I’m going to go ahead and assume otherwise.

Based on this assumption, I’m going to state that - simply because your friends know the difference, doesn’t mean everyone else in your city will know the difference as well.

Later...

I never said that, or pretending to know, what everyone who lives in my vicinity/city knows about comics, but I gave an opinion based on the fact that I do know ALOT of people, even if most of them are 'face' friends, but I can have fairly intellectual discusions on comics with most of them, and although they are all under 25, I don't know what an age group over that thinks, but based on the age group I know, I stick with my statement.

Im sorry if I'm percieving this wrongly, but it seems like your saying that if everyone in my city thought the world was flat, and everyone in the world outside of my city thought the world was round, then I would be wrong for saying that out of all my friends experiences, I'd say the world was flat. I'm making a judgement based on what I know, I never said that was fact, just an assessment that my experiences have led me to form.:)

So you're saying that specifically, there are adds for X-men toys aimed at adults.

In other words: There are adds for toys based on a PG-13 movie that doesn't, as far as I know, currently have a media tie-in aimed at a younger audience, aimed at the parents of children who are young enough not to have their own spending money.

You're also saying that parents can not just identify the BRAND (X-men, Transformers, Pokemon) but individual elements within the brand. (Wolverine, Optimus Prime.... uh, some Pokemon. I'm 30! What the hell do I know from Pokemon!)

My two years experience as a Mall Santa suggests the exact opposite.

Well again, this is based on personal experience, but if I was into something growing up, say Power Rangers for example, then my parents would want to have some info on what it was, they didn't care that the bad guy was called Zordon (I think, memories a bit rusty), they wanted to know what the basic concept was, after all they didn't want me watching somethink teaching me how to build bombs or what not. Thats an extreme example, but following that route, when I started getting into wrestling it was still aimed at kids, with bedspreads and toys and such. Now my dad took a serious interest in that, probably on a level to be able to relate to my interet, but also to make sure I wasn't just watching two men violently maul each other, so he did know certain details about the WWF world. I'd hope thats how it is for the rest of the world.

Based on that fact, let's imagine Vince Macman back in the day, in his executive meeting with the marketing people. He suggests that they show the image of WWF as a cool, ultra violent, show. Afterall, most kids want a bit of the tabbo, the unknown, its natural to be curious about what you don't know. But his people tell ol' vince that parents wouldn't let their kids go anywear near such a property, so they need to soften it up to cater for this, whilst still retaining a slight taboo for interest.

There are holes in the arguement, but what I'm basically trying to say remains the same, advertisinag is primairly aimed at a young/young adult age group. So whilst not ignoring it entirely, over a certain age (30, 35, 40, depends on the product) a group no longer becomes a target audience for most products. This is mostly due to the lack of finacial liberies of people with more responsibilty, which I know is a generalization, but its what happens, or what I get taught happens.

[the orikyx]

PF,LT,ETERNITY SIMPLY AS THAT:o :( :p

[Reptisaurus!]

I agree. It's a shame how Plant Fucker and Lick Tounge always get ignored in these kind of discussions.

[Expletive Deleted]

Plant Fucker was always a favorite of mine.

[Reptisaurus!]

I'm just covering because I have no *idea* who orykix actually means.

[geordiesteve]

If the Big 3 is in terms of within the industry, for comic readers then I would say

Spiderman, Captain America and Hulk.

If it was in general, for people who know of the characters, but not which company they belong to and such, I would say

Wolverine, Spiderman and Hulk.

Not to piss on Iron Man, but a lot of people don't know who he is, and he isn't that exciting when compared to some of the above who have awesome in-built powers. They, not me, would argue it's just some guy in a metal suit. What's cool about that? That's the general opinion I get from people who aren't comic fans when I talk to them about comic book characters and movies etc. This perception may change of course, once the Iron Man movie comes out, and same with Ghost Rider, if it is a success.

[the film freak]

Spidey, Cap, and the Hulk.

I wouldn't argue with that.

I think Marvel doesn't really have a big three the same way DC does. I think Spider-man is the only who compares in terms of popularity of Batman and Superman.

But I think Marvel has more well known characters.

[dupersuper]

LT would probably be Living Tribunal (who'd be a big 3 unto himself, I suppose...). I'm drawing a blank on PF though...

[BloodRedSandman]

Going purely on public-recognizability?

Spider-Man, Hulk, and your choice of Captain America or Wolverine.

Ditto.
Captian Amercia get my vote over Wolverine as Captain Amercia has been around for much longer. Otherwise I would include Wolverine as a Forth.

[superfriend]

Superman = Spider-Man
Batman = Wolverine
Wonder Woman = no good analog that I can see. Marvel doesn't really have a big enough female character that fits the bill. There are certainly plenty of male candidates but it's a shame there aren't more visible female characters to choose from. Possibles: Storm, Ms. Marvel, Elektra?