Uncanny X-men 478 - Lets Talk about it! - Spoilers and Stuff

[Sheldon]

Hey Gang,

Here is a synopsis...

We open with an update with some shiar bigwigs saying that the Imperial guard has been dispatched to meed up with Vulcan. We also learn that 55% of the stargates have been destroyed.

Back with the X-men at a space station - At Xavier's bidding Rachel uses some telepathic/persuasive abilities to make the workers let them refuel their ship. Everyone goes on the space station and Charles is wearing a space suit to hide his identity.

Nice little dialogue with Alex and Lorna wondering if Professor X used to use his powers in a similar way. Lorna wonders if he used to push his will onto people like that. Alex is sure it is only when he had too. Then they talk about how much they miss jean and like Scott more when he was with her.

Kurt and Darwin bond. Darwin thinks Charles is overprotective of him. He wonders why Charles is wearing the suit and Kurt says he is a wanted man in Shi'ar space but it is too complicated and didn't want to get into it.

Havok and Po go to the security room and find a bunch of dead folks.

Darwin has already learned the shi'ar language. Kurt is shot at but ports out of the way but Darwin is sucked into space. Luckily he is adaptable and can survive out there too. Then Ray gets some headaches. And Warpath sees Darwin outside trying to warn them.

Next thing you know some War Skrulls are attacking. Kurt ports one outside.
One tries to kill Charlie. Havok does some shooting with not too great results and Po uses her powers to give them brain surgery to get rid of the implant that is hurting Rachel. Rachel then TKs a poor ol'war skrull in a neato pic.

Darwin gets back in. And the x-men interrogate the Shi'ar workers. Apparently they are the only survivors of Vulcan's attack and they picked up the war skrulls who were disguised as Shi'ar. The war skrulls killed all the folks on the station. The two survivors were not killed because of a skrull code not to kill those who had saved them. Charles offers them a ride to the next shi'ar hub. Kurt says its a bad idea. Charlie says there are no other options. As the shi'ar leave they mention that they recognize ol'xavier.

Next section there is some guy named korvus who is a shi'ar prision who is being released to do something that only the blade of the phoenix can do.....

End Synopsis

All in all I liked it. I liked the Darwin and Kurt bits, and I liked Alex and Lorna. The art was nifty altought that Korvis guy looked a lot like logan I was confused, and the story didnt' feel too padded.

Any other thoughts?

[ibrakeforchinwe]

I thought it was good. I liked that there was a reason Rachel got taken out rather than just falling down. As much as I love Claremont, Brubaker is doing alot better with her than he did.

Her few lines were awesome and to the point.

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

Review Content: The X-men space opera finally picks up steam with this 4th part as the X-Men lurch one step closer to Vulcan and the Shi'ar empire. The X-Men dock onto a Shi'ar space station to refuel and peruse the station, but they are quickly attacked by a surprise adversary who has infiltrated the ranks of the Shi'ar!

I was tempted to write this issue off as one more filler for Brubaker's12-issue opus. This issue does serve the overarching story though, by introducing a new player who even manages to infiltrate the ship by the issue's end. I'm even speculating that one of the pages in the issue serves a double purpose of settingup a future plot twist. Highlight the following text for possible SPOILERS: After Nightcrawler traps Darwyn and the Skrull infiltrator (oops there goes that mystery) outside the spaceship there is a page showing Nightcrawler meeting Darwyn who hs somehow made his way back inside. Then there is an odd-placed dscussion over several panels about Kurt teleporting throutgh an unknown door, with Darwyn trying to convince him he knows the other side of the door is safe. I may be reading too much into this, but I get a sense this Darwyn is a skrull doppleganger who then ambushes Nightcrawler behind the scenes, leading to two more Skrulls infiltrating the team by the issue's end.END SPOILERS Meanwhile, the Shi'ar Empire finally reacts to the double invasion, by unleashing their failsafe agenda against the incoming Phoenix with special operative that could prove very interesting.

After 4 months I can proudly declare I enjoyed this issue. Brubaker still has a solid handle on these mutants and their interactions. This issue's breakthrough stars are Polaris (finally exhibiting a personality trait other than 'Psycho', as she reminisces of Jean and reacts to the Professor's behaviour) and Darwyn (who is slowly coming to his own as a character and trying to get out from under Xavier's protective wing). Darwyn's powers aren't as revolutionary as I had originally though, after someone pointed out to me that his 'instant evolution' gimmick is essentially a mirror of Claremont's 'Lifeguard' character's power set from X-Treme X-Men. Althuogh I d miss the golden bird, Brubaker here makes more prominent use of this power and bases it on a more solid comic book logic.

As the writing has been consistently above average, Uncanny's great pitfall for me so far had been the lackluster art. I was even amazed at Marvel's 'audacity' to name Billy Tan as one of their new 'Young Guns' last week. Then suddenly, Tan goes ahead and makes a fool of me with this issue. From the stylish and striking cover to the interior pages, Billy Tan has finally hatched into the artist he was meant to be and I can now share Brubaker's vewpoint and applaud his artistic eye when he hand-picked Tan for this project. Tan offers a stunning rendition of Havok and Polaris in these pages (perhps a defining rendition of Lorna especially) and a series of stunning scene settings within the space station. Congratulations. Not all of his previous flaws have disappeared of course, but this issue shows off the exponential rate with which he is improving with each passing issue so I have no doubt Tan will be a sought-out artist by 2007!

Grade: B

[Hi-Fi]

That was so much fun! I love how every issue is a little adventure in space. In just one page, Brubaker writes the best Polaris I've seen in years. And Darwin and Nightcrawler bonding was cool.

All in all, a really good issue. I'm completely satisfied with the core X-Books. Great time to be an x-fan.

I just wanna ask something to Brubaker: when are we going to see the Starjammers??

[The Lucky One]

Did... new comics get released today? I know those in other countries would have gotten them, but I had heard that Labor Day delayed them all till tomorrow in the U.S. Not the case?

-D

[DDM]

Did... new comics get released today? I know those in other countries would have gotten them, but I had heard that Labor Day delayed them all till tomorrow in the U.S. Not the case?

-D

My LCS said they would be delivered tomorrow due to Labor Day.

[xmanson]

Has Mr. Ed said anything about any chance at all of seeing Lifeguard? She being Shiar and all.

[Callisto]

i was bored to tears reading this issue. i cannot stand darwin, this omnipotent mutant needs to be killed immiediately and i do not by kurt surviving in the vacum of space only to shurg it off moments after. he should have pretty much been frozen to the bone he acted like it was a slight chill. everything about this issue bored me i honestly hoped the skrulls would have offed the entire team so they could bring back theold uncanny x-men team. the only thing i liked was the art. polaris and her powers looked very good, i wonder if they will EVER explain what her powers are now.

[Beast]

Has Mr. Ed said anything about any chance at all of seeing Lifeguard? She being Shiar and all.
I'm hoping so. She retained her powers after all. Plus Darwin's stealing her gig. :p

[Omega Alpha]

I enjoyed this issue too. I liked Darwin and Nightcrawler becoming friends, they had some similar experiences. Best Polaris ever after PAD's, i liked the conversation she had about Jean with Alex. Although when Havok says "me too", he was talking about how he misses Jean, not that he liked Scott much better when she was around (since they seemed closer than they were since the 80's in #476).

And, by the way, this saga has a very nostalgic feeling, and the teams reminds me a lot of the Dark Phoenix Saga one. Prof X. and Nightcrawler are obviously the same, Warpath acts a lot like Wolverine and Havok like Cyclops, Darwin is the youngest member, the most shy of them all, and the one which is most safe from physical attacks, so he could be Colossus, and the girls would be Phoenix and Storm. I think that Lorna, not Rachel, would be Phoenix, not only because of her relationship with "Cyke", but also because she is very confuse and we don't know yet how far her powers go, with Rachel being Storm because... well, i don't know why. And some people compared Vulcan with Dark Phoenix. What do you think?

[Daithi]

I dunno. I thought some of Rachel's lines made her seem like every other generic telepath in fiction. Most notably Deanna Troi from Star Trek. Also why did Rachel need to be reminded that she has telekinetic powers?

Another thing. If Lilandra thinks that Xavier was innocent in the matter why did she try to kill him on Earth?

I liked the issue (and I'm really enjoying Lorna and Darwin) but some of it seems just irked me.

[Arilou]

I liked the fact that Brubaker actually acknowledges Annihilation. Props to him!

[dellicious]

Has Mr. Ed said anything about any chance at all of seeing Lifeguard? She being Shiar and all.

not with darwin "the other walking plot device" around

[Keith_Martineau]

not with darwin "the other walking plot device" around

Yeah, cause thats exactly what he's been used for---a plot device.

Wait, no he hasn't. His presense has not magically altered any of their situations, or anything---indeed, if he's been replaced by a Warskrull, that demonstrates vulnerability.

That he has adaptative powers means he can be used as a plot device.
This does not mean he HAS been used that way.

[Frank]

I like Darwin more and more; It`s a joy to see him develop new powers every issues. I thought the artwork by Tan was better than the previous issues so maybe it will grow on me. I`m unsure about Polaris, as I hope Bru woulnd`t go into the the Claremont thing about her being the most powerful and so forth. Also I`ve no idea why she has electric powers now instead of magnetic ones. I miss the effects her powers were doing when Dave Cockrum was drawing, it was making her more unique and weird.

I know it`s a robotic review lol, maybe it`s because there was no room for excitement but there were improvements. ;)

[Blackcat]

No Imperial Guardsmen in it, Im disappointed!

[dotdotdot]

I was tempted to write this issue off as one more filler for Brubaker's12-issue opus. This issue does serve the overarching story though, by introducing a new player who even manages to infiltrate the ship by the issue's end. I'm even speculating that one of the pages in the issue serves a double purpose of settingup a future plot twist. Highlight the following text for possible SPOILERS: After Nightcrawler traps Darwyn and the Skrull infiltrator (oops there goes that mystery) outside the spaceship there is a page showing Nightcrawler meeting Darwyn who hs somehow made his way back inside. Then there is an odd-placed dscussion over several panels about Kurt teleporting throutgh an unknown door, with Darwyn trying to convince him he knows the other side of the door is safe. I may be reading too much into this, but I get a sense this Darwyn is a skrull doppleganger who then ambushes Nightcrawler behind the scenes, leading to two more Skrulls infiltrating the team by the issue's end.





you know i actually didn't think of this, but i'm sure that's dead on. reminds me of authority revolution reveals, and it's something i didn't expect at all from this arc, which seemed already to have plenty going for it.

[Editor]

Bru's best issue yet i reckon. I can actually say i ENJOYED this issue.

Good to see lots of reference to the past and to other goings on in the MU.

[Hi-Fi]

Bru said in the latest Wizard that one of his favorite X-Characters will die before this saga end.

[Beast]

Bru said in the latest Wizard that one of his favorite X-Characters will die before this saga end.
We know someone was going to, thanks to Mike Mart's list.

Though I'm honestly sick and tired of character death in the X-Books.

[fishtaco]

Can someone elaborate more on the Warskrulls bit?

[Beast]

Can someone elaborate more on the Warskrulls bit?
There were shapeshifting Warskrulls, just like those in X-Men: The End.

[DDM]

Can someone elaborate more on the Warskrulls bit?

Warskrulls are skrulls who artificially gain the powers from their victims using advanced technology. Warskrulld first appear in Uncanny X-Men #269 (as the Warlord), Uncanny X-Men #276-277 (true form). Warskrulls are much bigger than normal Skrulls standing about 7 feet tall. They are also far more war-like than their Skrull cousins. Once the Warskrulls are knocked out of their default form, they must copy another different form. Warskrulls' genes are artificially adapted to match their hosts. Without the proper adaption, the transformation to another host can be painful.

[Keith_Martineau]

...You think Taco doesn't know that?

I'm pretty sure he was asking for elaboration on the Warskrulls and their role in THIS ISSUE.

[fishtaco]

There were shapeshifting Warskrulls, just like those in X-Men: The End.Yes, I know, but far more importantly from Uncanny X-Men #'s 269, 275-277. Crossroads is one of my favorite X-stories. But I meant what happened in the issue with the Warskrulls. Do we know if they're working for Lilandra? What do we know about them so far in the context of this story?

[spEEdy]

I think this story is great so far!
Darwin...Love him!
Nightcrawler...love him
Havok..love him
Prof X...ehhhhh
Rachel...ugh!?
Warpath...AWESOME!! About time hes been spotlighted!
Polaris...okay...its about time shes back to how she supposed to be. She great. But uhmm...what exactly are her powers now that she was affected by Apocalypse?????? Anyone know??

....and the dialogue between her and Warpath was great!


** Lorna does some power mumbo jumbo and knocks the remaining skrulls out**

Warpath :"Hey, I had most of them.."
Polaris : "Well, that one is still conscious, Kick Him!"
Warpath :"Good Point"

Loving this storyline so far....

[fishtaco]

And, by the way, this saga has a very nostalgic feeling, and the teams reminds me a lot of the Dark Phoenix Saga one. Prof X. and Nightcrawler are obviously the same, Warpath acts a lot like Wolverine and Havok like Cyclops, Darwin is the youngest member, the most shy of them all, and the one which is most safe from physical attacks, so he could be Colossus, and the girls would be Phoenix and Storm. I think that Lorna, not Rachel, would be Phoenix, not only because of her relationship with "Cyke", but also because she is very confuse and we don't know yet how far her powers go, with Rachel being Storm because... well, i don't know why. And some people compared Vulcan with Dark Phoenix. What do you think?Okay, so you're saying that the characters in the cast are being written in a similar fashion to the characters during the Dark Phoenix Saga? If so, then wouldn't that take away these character's identities and put them more in the shadows of Storm, Colossus, and Phoenix (mark one), and Wolverine and Cyclops? Polaris, Havok, Warpath, and Phoenix (mark two), are all classic characters that have had essential roles in what is regarded by most as "classic" X-Men stories. Would those stories that are considered "classic" actually be "classic" if these characters were written to resemble other characters? I don't think that this is Brubaker's intent, and although I do not like how he is doing it, he is still giving (or at least trying the best he can to give) these characters an individual identity. Some characters may start out in the shadow of another. Havok is a good example, but what made him so interesting in Uncanny X-Men (Outback era) and then in Peter David's X-Factor was how the experience of being an X-Man in an untypical circumstance brought him completely out of Cyclops's shadow and gave him an individual identity and set of credentials that are part of his history with the teams. He even led his own team of mutants at the start of the new decade, putting him on an equal level with Scott. I don't think the point of this is to make these characters resemble previous characters that were part of a classic storyline in order to give the reader a sense of nostalgia.

[Keith_Martineau]

I'm'a go ahead and be a butthead and try to interpret someone elses statement. I haven't read the issue yet (the end of my shift can't come soon enough!)

I think he meant that the formation of the team reminds him of the team formation during Dark Phoenix. Not that the characters themselves were being written to resemble those specific characters. Just that team structures are similar.

That said, I think thats what Brubaker is trying to do. He's presented a team that is reminiscent of that storyline, but they are still their individual characters, and will act how they're supposed to.

[fishtaco]

I'm'a go ahead and be a butthead and try to interpret someone elses statement. I haven't read the issue yet (the end of my shift can't come soon enough!)

I think he meant that the formation of the team reminds him of the team formation during Dark Phoenix. Not that the characters themselves were being written to resemble those specific characters. Just that team structures are similar.

That said, I think thats what Brubaker is trying to do. He's presented a team that is reminiscent of that storyline, but they are still their individual characters, and will act how they're supposed to.Fair enough, then, if that's what he meant.

[Sparda]

I enjoyed the issue and it made my week. Liked how rachel was taken down and Warpath as usual being badass. Who needs a healing factor with claws if your a native american who can wrestle Buffolos!!!!!!! Enjoyed seeing polaris and havok conversation and seeing her power demanstration in owning the warskrulls. Nightcrawler and that other guy bonding was also cool.

Now I can't wait for the next issue of the x-men squaring off against that cloud wannabe alien guy.

Hope they make a kick ass HC of this arc after it's done.

[kate-pryde]

My initial reaction is: that’s it??? It’s starting to get good and we’re finally getting into the main part of the story and we have to wait four more weeks. Why can’t Uncanny be bi-weekly?

I’m glad Rachel got to blast that Warskull. Not particularly happy with the clunky “But remember, you're not just a telepath.” line. Wouldn’t “blast them with your TK” have been more helpful? She’s already having trouble thinking. Why ask her to remember something?

Next issue I hope Ray just starts blasting the crap out someone. She’s been keeping her anger in check far too long and James has been getting to have all the fun.

Based on the number of times Rachel and Jimmy have been paired up in recent issues, it seems like their the obvious new potential couple.

The “kick him” line was brillant. This is the best Lorna’s been written in a long, long time.

I’m glad Kurt’s getting some panel time, but I wish he had more to do that ‘port and talk to Darwin.

Tan’s great at the action scenes, but the way he draws Rachel is getting stranger and stranger.

My other problem is that Xavier seems to be not exactly thinking clearly. Why let the Shi’ar recognize him? Rachel’s always been able to disguise their appearances. Why not have Rachel disguise the entire team to look like Shi’ar?

[Omega Alpha]

I'm'a go ahead and be a butthead and try to interpret someone elses statement. I haven't read the issue yet (the end of my shift can't come soon enough!)

I think he meant that the formation of the team reminds him of the team formation during Dark Phoenix. Not that the characters themselves were being written to resemble those specific characters. Just that team structures are similar.

That said, I think thats what Brubaker is trying to do. He's presented a team that is reminiscent of that storyline, but they are still their individual characters, and will act how they're supposed to.

That's more or less what i meant. Havok is not a copy of Cyclops like Warpath is not a copy of Wolverine, Darwin is not a copy of Colossus, etc, but they have similarities. Each of them is a character on his own right, and won't act exactly like Cyclops, Wolverine, Colossus and the others would, but the team structure is similar, and by the similarities they all have, i don't think it's a coincidence.

Bru said in the latest Wizard that one of his favorite X-Characters will die before this saga end.

My money is on Prof X. But he seems to love Havok and Warpath, so...

[CE_Rap]

pretty good ish. The interactions were teh best part for me. Love how Lorna thinks of Jean for a sec. It's real to me to the teammates have little moments like this. The "kick him" line made me laugh. Kurt started picking some steam, but i need more. Come on, Ed, show me why he deserves to be CBR's #1 or #2!

RAchel needs to do something more. I wish she at least responded to Warpath with a "Yeah, i know that, Jimmy!" I'd like it better.She's not a noob in the least, so why is she acting like one. The "mental feedbacl" thing was just annoying. Wake Up, Rachel, YOU ARE NEEDED!!

well, i still feel like this is the best issue of the arc. hope more are coming! G'head Bru-man!

[CE_Rap]

O, Hi-Fi, i wish you didn't say that. Even though it doesn't surprise me. Can Marvel leave X-people alone?! For Crissakes, this is the friggin' generation of death! Enough already

[Hi-Fi]

O, Hi-Fi, i wish you didn't say that. Even though it doesn't surprise me. Can Marvel leave X-people alone?! For Crissakes, this is the friggin' generation of death! Enough already

Sorry, buddy.

Well, he doesn't even say if the characters is an X-Man. He says X-Character. It can be Lilandra, for all we know.;)

[Omega Alpha]

Could be Lilandra? So it HAS to be Lilandra! Trash 'em, Summers!:evilsmile

[Beast]

Could be Lilandra? So it HAS to be Lilandra! Trash 'em, Summers!:evilsmile
Well, Lilandra was on the 'Possible' list...
Trevor -- Uncanny X-Men is said to be getting another, as of yet unnamed member, can you let the fans in on who that character is?

Mike Marts -- I’ll do you one better Trevor. Out of these sixteen characters atleast one of them will die, two of them will get married, two characters will quit one team to join another, and one of them will be the “unnamed” Uncanny member.

Corsair , Cyclops , Darwin , Deathbird, Gambit, Havok, Hepzibah, Lilandra, Petra, Polaris, Pyro, Cecelia Reyes, Sunspot, Sway, Vulcan, Warpath

[kate-pryde]

Waitaminute... at least one will die from that list? Is that really the list? Petra and Sway are already dead. Cecelia Reyes, Sunspot, Gambit and Pyro are already gone.

The pair to get married. Isn't it obvious? Darwin and Vulcan. (Or Alex and Lorna or Corsair and Hepzibah) Xavier isn't listed, so that would preclude a Xavier/Lilandra wedding.

[dellicious]

this issue was pretty average
ive yet to be wow or amazed
the best part was the conversation between polaris and havok at the beginning
everything else seemed lackluster

[Michael P]

Yes, I know, but far more importantly from Uncanny X-Men #'s 269, 275-277. Crossroads is one of my favorite X-stories. But I meant what happened in the issue with the Warskrulls. Do we know if they're working for Lilandra? What do we know about them so far in the context of this story?
They were running from the Annihilation wave, infiltrated the Shi'Ar space station, killed everyone on board, and tried to kill the X-Men and steal their ship. The end.

[Keith_Martineau]

Yeah, having read the issue now, I don't think Kurt or Darwin are Warskrulls, nor do I think those Shi'Ar are either. Just some Shi'Ar preparing to take advantage of Xaviers presense.

[tunasammiches]

Just read it. Twice. I totally loved this issue. Tan's artwork got WAAAAaaaay better. Did you guys see his space scenery? And the facial expressions were awesome. And Rachel's hair moved! Seems like he's finding his stride. The inker really compliments him too.

Bru's story is really compelling. Especially since it's got such a slow build, along with those Vulcan one-shots acting as teasers. I know I can't wait til next month. But I'd rather have Uncanny be monthly than bi-monthly if that means Tan gets the appropriate time to draw some KICK ASS shit. Still, despite the slow build (not that I mind that cause I like the tease), the action scenes are great. The characters really whoop ass when they fight. Nightcrawler teleporting a Skrull into space is pretty brutal.

Someone mentioned earlier that wierd panel with Darwin telling Nightcrawler to teleport through a door. I totally agree with that. The scene transition WAS suspicious.

I loved that panel of Warpath with Rachel in his arms. I am in full support of something happening between these two. Just seeing that panel rocked.

And I love Lorna now. My favorite writer for her is still PAD, but Bru's doing better with her than the string of writers that had her previously.

This story arc does have a very nostalgic feel to it. But what I like most about that is that it's also got a contemporary spin to it. I mean, the Sh'iar have been in comic limbo for a long time and are usually only used as plot devices. It's nice to see the title "Rise and Fall of..." becuase it means Bru wants to take their story somewhere. Sure it's nice to have them around, but no one was really interested in them, kinda like how no one really gave a shit about Alpha Flight...until they were killed off recently. Now with this storyline, and after seeing all the hints of dissention and all the different motivations of the individual Shi'ar branches of gov't, I almost want to see them have their own comic just so I can see all the political mayhem that's ensuing.

Some lingering questions are:

-who's this "Superior" of Vice Chancellor K'Tor? (I bet it's D'Ken operating on the DL)
-what's the Sword of the Phoenix?
-where's Deathbird? She's gottaa have a part in this
-what's up with Lilandra? Why's she sick? Phrases like "She is being tended to" and "It was only through the ministry's pressure" that she dissolved her union with Charles sounds like political manipulation to me.

Oh and on Bru's list of who's to die: I bet it's either Corsair or Deathbird. Bets on Corsair though.

[Michael P]

I totally loved this issue. Tan's artwork got WAAAAaaaay better. Did you guys see his space scenery? And the facial expressions were awesome. And Rachel's hair moved! Seems like he's finding his stride. The inker really compliments him too.

The art was mostly good, but Polaris and Havok were too stiff in the panel where they find the bodies.

-who's this "Superior" of Vice Chancellor K'Tor? (I bet it's D'Ken operating on the DL)

I'd imagine it's Chancellor Araki.

-Where's Deathbird? She's gottaa have a part in this

She was brought up last issue, so she'll probably make an appearance sooner or later.

-What's up with Lilandra? Why's she sick? Phrases like "She is being tended to" and "It was only through the ministry's pressure" that she dissolved her union with Charles sounds like political manipulation to me.

I'd lay money on it.

[Cayman]

Some nice moments, but nothing special unfortunately. :(

[tunasammiches]

No it WAS special. It was magically special. Magically special + majestically special. And I felt special for reading it. Magestically special, not magically special.

[Cayman]

No it WAS special. It was magically special. Magically special + majestically special. And I felt special for reading it. Magestically special, not magically special.

Well, I'm pleased that you enjoyed it.

[tunasammiches]

No really, it was that good.

Nothing special though.

[Beast]

It's surprising. I hate the team for Adjectiveless X-Men, but love the book. I love the team for Uncanny X-Men, but feel meh about the book. If only we could balance these things. :(

[Cayman]

It's surprising. I hate the team for Adjectiveless X-Men, but love the book. I love the team for Uncanny X-Men, but feel meh about the book. If only we could balance these things. :(

I really liked the first two issues of the run. It'll probably bounce back for me, but I'm giving thought to just waiting for the trade.

[Beast]

I really liked the first two issues of the run. It'll probably bounce back for me, but I'm giving thought to just waiting for the trade.
You'll be waiting about a year. Marvel said they won't trade the run until all 12 issues are done. Same for Adjectiveless X-Men. They're planning an Oversized HC for both.

[evilheroics]

im liking it so far...

its like americas most wanted. on the trail of a psycho type thing. i liked it.

im curious to see how the two shiar guys unfold their plot. and wheres lilandra?

[Brian M.]

I liked the reference to Annilihation that the Shi'ar made. Nice touch of contiunity.

[Volk1]

Issue was alright but I kinda want them to meet Lilandra already...it's like the whole "are we there yet?" when you're on a road trip....I want to see Lilandra and Corsair like now.

The Lorna/Alex scenes were cute. Lorna's outfit rocks so much...

Warpath is a man's man.

Darwin = Most powerful member ever?

Warpath is the man.

[Beast]

I liked the reference to Annilihation that the Shi'ar made. Nice touch of contiunity.
Agreed. Adjectiveless X-Men did it as well. Was very nice.

[Brian M.]

Agreed. Adjectiveless X-Men did it as well. Was very nice.

When'd they do it?

[Syzygy]

I'm uncertain as to how I feel about this issue.

First, I was under the impression that the destruction of the star gates had effectively stranded the team too far away from Vulcan to ever catch up with him. So they just stop off at a space station and that's no longer a problem? The gates are still down, and presumably the distances are too great to cross without them. I would rather have had the team address this problem than get into some silly slugfest. Or was it addressed and I missed it?

As to the battle with the Warskrulls, well, on the one hand it kind of reminds me of Polaris' battle with her human hunters in #475--pretty much filler that doesn't really advance either the plot or character development. On the other hand, if the Warskrulls have replaced one of the team, as suggested, then I gather their inclusion wasn't mere filler, but will play a rather important role somewhere down the line. Guess I'll have to suspend judgement on this point until further down the road.

[Beast]

When'd they do it?
They showed the Annihilation Wave destroying a Shi'ar vessel an issue or two ago.

[tunasammiches]

I'm uncertain as to how I feel about this issue.

First, I was under the impression that the destruction of the star gates had effectively stranded the team too far away from Vulcan to ever catch up with him. So they just stop off at a space station and that's no longer a problem? The gates are still down, and presumably the distances are too great to cross without them. I would rather have had the team address this problem than get into some silly slugfest. Or was it addressed and I missed it?

I think he'll probably address it in the next issue. Everyone complained in his first issue that he didn't explain Alex's motivation for going on the mission, but then he totally addressed it in the seond issue of the arc.

[Hi-Fi]

They showed the Annihilation Wave destroying a Shi'ar vessel an issue or two ago.

It wasn't the Annihilation Wave. It was something that will play a major part in Carey's next arcs. ;)

[Beast]

It wasn't the Annihilation Wave. It was something that will play a major part in Carey's next arcs. ;)
Are you sure? It looked like the A.W.

[Hi-Fi]

Are you sure? It looked like the A.W.

Yes, I am. He told us in his site.

[Beast]

Yes, I am. He told us in his site.
Ah, I haven't been checking his site. My bad.

[Hi-Fi]

Ah, I haven't been checking his site. My bad.

No problem. We force him to tell us lots of stuff.;)


I don't know why, though. Surprises are so much better...:o

[Keith_Martineau]

The art was mostly good, but Polaris and Havok were too stiff in the panel where they find the bodies.

Golly. Good thing we aren't looking for perfection in every panel.

I'm really surprised by the art in this issue. Tan is doing what a good artist does. He's taking this opportunity to improve his craft and do the best job he can. Anybody else notice that this issue, he's starting to take on kind of an Alan Davis/Bryan Hitch quality?

Of course it ain't perfect, but the storytelling is clear, the characters are distinguishable and have their own facial expressions and mannerisms, and the characters demonstrate emotion. He's getting better every issue, so I think people should start cutting him some slack.

[Blackcat]

This was the most disappointing issue of this arc so far, hope it's the last one. I don't like the slowing down of the story, what is obvious happening here.

Just get that stupid spaceship in Shi'ar space and start fighting Vulcan. Let the Starjammers come by and join in and let the Imperial Guardsmen shine in a way they never were before please!

(Let Lilandra hook up again with Xavier and let him stay 4-ever)
.

[kate-pryde]

Exactly who is Korvus and what’s he got to do with the Phoenix/Shi’ar/Greys?

K'tor says that the Shi'ar have wiped out the descendents of Rook'shir "where ever we can find them."

Similar to what happened to the Greys. So, could it be related? Or do the Shi’ar just like wiping out any potential enemy?

Bru also says in the Spotlight interview that the new character, Korvus, "has deep ties to Jean and Rachel".

Ed Brubaker said in the recent Marvel Spotlight

"And you know her history with the Shi'Ar, they wiped out every person that she's (Rachel’s) genetically related to."

That would imply that Rachel is not genetically related to the Summers (even Nathan?).

And it looks like the Shi’ar are trying to wipe out Korvus’ line as well. So, he’s perhaps somehow related to the Greys. Or maybe some sort of anti-Phoenix?

I’m guessing that the thing the Blade of the Phoenix can do is kill Ray. But then, why were the Death Commandos sent if not this guy?

[Michael P]

Golly. Good thing we aren't looking for perfection in every panel.

I'm really surprised by the art in this issue. Tan is doing what a good artist does. He's taking this opportunity to improve his craft and do the best job he can. Anybody else notice that this issue, he's starting to take on kind of an Alan Davis/Bryan Hitch quality?

Of course it ain't perfect, but the storytelling is clear, the characters are distinguishable and have their own facial expressions and mannerisms, and the characters demonstrate emotion. He's getting better every issue, so I think people should start cutting him some slack.Well, if you love him so much, why don't you marry him?

Seriously, dude, did you not get that that was the *only* problem I had with Tan's art? From issue 475 until now?

[fishtaco]

And it looks like the Shi’ar are trying to wipe out Korvus’ line as well. So, he’s perhaps somehow related to the Greys. Or maybe some sort of anti-Phoenix?We've had the anti-Phoenix story already. This "anti-Phoenix" wanted to freeze reality in total crystal to create the ultimate expression of Order without any change, where Phoenix fluctuates between birth, death, and rebirth. Uncanny X-Men #'s 255, 472-474.

[Brian M.]

We've had the anti-Phoenix story already. This "anti-Phoenix" wanted to freeze reality in total crystal to create the ultimate expression of Order without any change, where Phoenix fluctuates between birth, death, and rebirth. Uncanny X-Men #'s 255, 472-474.

Well maybe this guy is related to it somehow.

[Tilt]

I’m with tunasammiches-and enjoyed this issue quite a bit. Darwin was fantastic, and Nightcrawler was every bit the character I know and love. Havok didn’t really get to do much but I still love him. Lol. Polaris was great, I love how now her personality is stable but her powers are totally crazy. James was great, loved seeing him holding Rachel that way. The Prof didn’t do much, but he’s powerless so not much he really add in during a fight. Rachel was …well, she had that panel with James. Her hair needs some help though it looks much cuter in the cover box than it does in the issue, but I did like that it moved a bit. And yeah, it’s kind of stupid they asked her to think while her brain was being fried. I’m sure she remembers having TK (not to mention her time-related abilities everyone else has forgotten, doesn’t anyone be me think it’s be useful for her to astral project back in time once in a while to investigate things that have recently happened-like why those two Shi’ar weren’t killed by the Skrulls?). The little nod to what is going on in the rest of the MU was really great. Not sure how I feel about the Phoenix killer guy..was hoping it was Xtreme I guess and can’t understand why they haven’t used him up till now? Why wasn’t he with the Death Commandos that killed the Greys?

And there have been two Anti-Phoenixes now...sigh.

[Daithi]

We've had the anti-Phoenix story already. This "anti-Phoenix" wanted to freeze reality in total crystal to create the ultimate expression of Order without any change, where Phoenix fluctuates between birth, death, and rebirth. Uncanny X-Men #'s 255, 472-474.

There's also Necrom from Excalibur also.

[TinMan]

I really enjoyed this issue, Ed is the !@#$in man!!! I love his characterization and the way his characters interact, he's weaving an interesting story here that I find myself unable to put down.

Tan's art work has been improving every issue since his first Uncanny issue w/ CC, he's getting tighter and tighter. I can still pick up some mistakes on his part (mainly problems with characters faces, if you pay attention some times his facial structures don't always jive with the perspective and foreshortening of the panel), but all in all, he's constantly getting better and I really enjoy his style. Give this man another year or two and I bet he'll be able to pick his assignments without a problem.

[xsyphon]

Question: Can Hovok now fly or float or something now? There have been a couple of issues including this one where it looks like he is using his powers to fly. When he and Lorna are running towards the battle neither of them were touching the ground. If he can fly when did all this come about?

[TinMan]

Question: Can Hovok now fly or float or something now? There have been a couple of issues including this one where it looks like he is using his powers to fly. When he and Lorna are running towards the battle neither of them were touching the ground. If he can fly when did all this come about?

I don't believe he can, I figured he was jumping into battle. Sure it's a bit strange, but it makes the scene far more dramatic that way.

I LOVED that panel where he was jumping and just unloading on that one Warskrull though, probably my favorite panel this issue. All of Tan's anatomy and perspective looked great in that panel and it really looked like Alex was lettin that Skrull have it. Awesome.

[xsyphon]

I don't believe he can, I figured he was jumping into battle. Sure it's a bit strange, but it makes the scene far more dramatic that way.

I LOVED that panel where he was jumping and just unloading on that one Warskrull though, probably my favorite panel this issue. All of Tan's anatomy and perspective looked great in that panel and it really looked like Alex was lettin that Skrull have it. Awesome.

I'll look again when I get home but if it was a jump I would have thought he would be higher off the ground. There were two panels I believe shown in this issue where he was just somewhat above the ground and had forward momentum.

[Sentinel K]

I really don't like the look of Havok.

Not sure what is bugging me so much though.

I think its the bit above his head. Either have the egg beater on his head or have his head free ala Mutant X.

I also dislike that his costume is just black. Thats bad colouring IMO. There is no depth to his costume so he looks very flat.

Not a big complaint, but....you know.....just bugs me.

[TinMan]

I really don't like the look of Havok.

Not sure what is bugging me so much though.

I think its the bit above his head. Either have the egg beater on his head or have his head free ala Mutant X.

I also dislike that his costume is just black. Thats bad colouring IMO. There is no depth to his costume so he looks very flat.

Not a big complaint, but....you know.....just bugs me.

Pfft, dumbass.

I love the costume he's wearing now. That "egg beater" crap from years ago is just HORRIBLE in my opinion and looks incredibly dumb. I also disliked this goggles he was wearing for awhile back in Uncanny, but now that they've stream lined his costume, I really love it.

[Sentinel K]

Pfft, dumbass.

I love the costume he's wearing now. That "egg beater" crap from years ago is just HORRIBLE in my opinion and looks incredibly dumb. I also disliked this goggles he was wearing for awhile back in Uncanny, but now that they've stream lined his costume, I really love it.

Fair enough. I hated that visor thing he wore at the beginning of austen's run too.

I just hate the way his head looks so small because of the costume wrapping around it.

He looks like a kid.

[Blackcat]

This Korvus guy, what kind of alien race is he from? He doesn't look Shi' ar to me. He lookes more like the people who welcomed the X-Men earlier in this issue when they came from board of their spaceship. Who are these people and does Korvus belong to the same race?

[TinMan]

Fair enough. I hated that visor thing he wore at the beginning of austen's run too.

I just hate the way his head looks so small because of the costume wrapping around it.

He looks like a kid.

Haha, I can't say as I see it though. I first got into comics back when Alex was w/ X-Factor and Scott had his Jim Lee costume, so I'm used to that style of "head gear" I suppose. Alex's current costume isn't that drastically different in the head gear department from his old X-Factor one, so I guess I just see it as more recognizable.

[TinMan]

This Korvus guy, what kind of alien race is he from? He doesn't look Shi' ar to me. He lookes more like the people who welcomed the X-Men earlier in this issue when they came from board of their spaceship. Who are these people and does Korvus belong to the same race?

They're Shi'ar, well, they're Warskrulls in the form of Shi'ar. The station the team docked on was a Shi'ar station for maintenance on the "Stargates" and supplies/fueling. The warskrulls killed all of the Shi'ar on the station minus the two the X-Men found and they shape shifted to a Shi'ar form in an attempt to "aquire" a ship from anyone who docked there.

I also believe Korvus is Shi'ar, he looked like it to me.

[Sheldon]

They're Shi'ar, well, they're Warskrulls in the form of Shi'ar. The station the team docked on was a Shi'ar station for maintenance on the "Stargates" and supplies/fueling. The warskrulls killed all of the Shi'ar on the station minus the two the X-Men found and they shape shifted to a Shi'ar form in an attempt to "aquire" a ship from anyone who docked there.

I also believe Korvus is Shi'ar, he looked like it to me.
Korvus is a test tube Wolvie. Well not really, but I couldn't have been the only one who thought to themselves, "Dammit what is Logan doing in this story!" when they first saw him.

[TinMan]

Korvus is a test tube Wolvie. Well not really, but I couldn't have been the only one who thought to themselves, "Dammit what is Logan doing in this story!" when they first saw him.

Hahaha, well, I didn't think it was Logan at all to tell the truth. So I guess at this point you're alone. ;)

[Tilt]

Well, I didn't think it was Logan but for a second I thought it was Fang or something. Very logan-esque if nothing else.

[Frank]

It`s weird but I have this sinking feeling that Bru will become one of the long line of usualy good writers that will go to the writers cemetary of guys that could not make the X-Men work(after Morrison, Casey, Milligan, etc...).

I really, truly thought he would be the one. But i`m not so sure anymore.

[kate-pryde]

There's also Necrom from Excalibur also.


Yeah, I know. I love Necrom, but it's been very clear anything in Excalibur about the Phoenix is complete and utterly ignored. I highly doubt anyone in the X-office has read most issues of Excalibur.

If Korvus is going "Phoenix huntin' " (as the caption for the next issue says), yet he has some sort of deep dies to the Phoenix, Jean and Rachel?

It doesn't make much sense if the Shi'ar let another enemy out of jail just on the hope that he'll help them to win his freedom with two other enemies heading towards them that could wipe the Shi'ar out. But perhaps this is someone who would automatically want to kill Rachel, so that's why the Shi'ar are trusting him?

[Mariah]

Korvus is a test tube Wolvie. Well not really, but I couldn't have been the only one who thought to themselves, "Dammit what is Logan doing in this story!" when they first saw him.
You're on the right path of thinking, it's really x-24, but since that's a dumb codename, they went with Korvus.

[Daithi]

If Korvus is going "Phoenix huntin' " (as the caption for the next issue says), yet he has some sort of deep dies to the Phoenix, Jean and Rachel?

Maybe years ago a Grey women found herself in Shi'ar space, got herself a husband and Korvus came about?

[Beast]

Having finally read it, I thought it was a fairly good issue. But yeah, I think Nightcrawler got replaced by a Warskrull, not Darwin. The character banter was pretty good as well. Getting a bit annoyed by Charles chastizing everyone about their powers. Though in Rachel's case I can understand, he doesn't want Rachel to go down Jean's Dark Pheonix path. Looking forward to next issue, and finding out who Korvus is.

[Daithi]

Though in Rachel's case I can understand, he doesn't want Rachel to go down Jean's Dark Pheonix path. Looking forward to next issue, and finding out who Korvus is.

She already went Dark Phoenix when she tried to destroy the universe that one time. I agree that Nightcrawler's being replaced. How could he survive in space anyway?

[Beast]

She already went Dark Phoenix when she tried to destroy the universe that one time. I agree that Nightcrawler's being replaced. How could he survive in space anyway?
Yeah, but Xavier wasn't present for that if I recall correctly. ;)

[Daithi]

Yeah, but Xavier wasn't present for that if I recall correctly. ;)

Nah, he, Lilandra and The Starjammers were all present.

[Beast]

Nah, he, Lilandra and The Starjammers were all present.
Ok, It's been a while. Either way, after 'End of Greys' I can understand his attitude a bit.

[Daithi]

Ok, It's been a while. Either way, after 'End of Greys' I can understand his attitude a bit.

When Rachel didn't kill anyone after what happened to her? Then again he wasn't present for that. However he seems quite comfortable for Lorna to use her powers when she can't really control them.

[rwsmith]

Man, as much as I thought I would loathe the use of Warpath as "Wolverine-Lite," I actually find myself liking the character a lot. Kind of reminds me of Logan back in the old Claremont/Byrne days, always rushing into a fight and then getting ticked off when someone else steals his thunder by taking out the bad guys for him.

This cast, much like Mike Carey's in adjectiveless, is really clicking for me to a certain degree. There's a core group here that I'm really liking: Warpath, Nightcrawler and Darwin. The rest kind of bore me, to be honest. I feel the same way about Carey's book, though. Rogue, Iceman, Cannonball and Mystique are great together. Cable and Sabretooth I could do without, though.

Regardless, I haven't enjoyed these two X-men books this much since Grant Morrison and Joe Casey were on them years ago.

[AnthonyJ]

She already went Dark Phoenix when she tried to destroy the universe that one time. I agree that Nightcrawler's being replaced. How could he survive in space anyway?
Only a very brief exposure to vacuum. A normal human can survive more than a minute in vacuum, though they'll be incapacitated in a few seconds.

She didn't go Dark Phoenix when she tried to destroy the universe, she just went Stupid. She was trying to accomplish something, as opposed to Dark Phoenix, who was destructive just for the heck of it.

[jarrod]

She was trying to accomplish something, as opposed to Dark Phoenix, who was destructive just for the heck of it.
Jean as Dark Phoneix very much had a purpose.... thanks Morrison. :)

[Beast]

Jean as Dark Phoneix very much had a purpose.... thanks Morrison. :)
No she didn't. She ate a sun for no reason. That's not a purpose.

Morrison didn't even deal with the Dark Phoenix aspects, what are you talking about?

[Daithi]

No she didn't. She ate a sun for no reason. That's not a purpose.


She ate a sun to replenish herself after opening a star-gate.


Morrison didn't even deal with the Dark Phoenix aspects, what are you talking about?

That the D'Bari were not a viable species and Jean was just doing her job.

[Beast]

I don't buy that at all. I also don't recall it ever being stated in New X-Men.

[jarrod]

I don't buy that at all. I also don't recall it ever being stated in New X-Men.
You also can't see the forest for the trees.

Open interpretation was Morrison's strength on New X-Men, and the greatest nod to Claremont's classic stories and concepts. I'm always shocked to find people being so polar on them when they're such fundamentally similar writers in the ways that really matter.

[Beast]

You also can't see the forest for the trees.

Open interpretation was Morrison's strength on New X-Men, and the greatest nod to Claremont's classic stories and concepts. I'm always shocked to find people being so polar on them when they're such fundamentally similar writers in the ways that really matter.
Disagreed on every point you just made.

[jarrod]

Disagreed on every point you just made.
Unsurprised in the least.

[fishtaco]

No she didn't. She ate a sun for no reason. That's not a purpose.

Morrison didn't even deal with the Dark Phoenix aspects, what are you talking about?Right. Eating a star for no reason is the only thing that happened when Jean went Dark Phoenix, and since that isn't a purpose, there was no purpose to Jean becoming Dark Phoenix. Right.

[Beast]

Right. Eating a star for no reason is the only thing that happened when Jean went Dark Phoenix, and since that isn't a purpose, there was no purpose to Jean becoming Dark Phoenix. Right.
Good for you to focus on one comment. You'll note I said that Jean as Dark Phoenix had no purpose. As in there was no method to her madness, she wasn't performing any service. Jarrod was implying that eating the star was necessary. I disagree with it. Read the discussion before chiming in, please and thank you.

[rwsmith]

I don't buy that at all. I also don't recall it ever being stated in New X-Men.

The Phoenix "burns away what doesn't work," remember? Makes perfect sense to me.

Now if she could just come back long enough to burn away the Phoenix itself, as well as any alternate future Summers children, I'd be much obliged.;)

[AnthonyJ]

Even if there was a purpose to the destruction of the D'Bari, it's clear that Jean was not aware of that purpose and was basically out of control, not deliberately going hunting the D'Bari.

I'm not going to say that Stupid is ethically superior to Out of Control, I'm just saying they aren't the same thing.

[Affinity]

Hey...Havok's powers. Seeing them from an angle is almost depressing.

[fishtaco]

Good for you to focus on one comment. You'll note I said that Jean as Dark Phoenix had no purpose. As in there was no method to her madness, she wasn't performing any service. Jarrod was implying that eating the star was necessary. I disagree with it. Read the discussion before chiming in, please and thank you.I'm sorry, but I did read the discussion. Eating the D'Bari star did have a purpose, and there was a method to her madness, unless if I am "missing out" on some recent retcon published within the books. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're wrong, or that they didn't even read the discussion.

[Beast]

The Phoenix "burns away what doesn't work," remember? Makes perfect sense to me.

Now if she could just come back long enough to burn away the Phoenix itself, as well as any alternate future Summers children, I'd be much obliged.;)
Yeah, but there was never any evidence that the D'Bari as a culture didn't work.

[jarrod]

Good for you to focus on one comment. You'll note I said that Jean as Dark Phoenix had no purpose. As in there was no method to her madness, she wasn't performing any service. Jarrod was implying that eating the star was necessary. I disagree with it. Read the discussion before chiming in, please and thank you.
Two cosmic birds, one stone. Focusing on details to the detriment of overall story seems to be more your forte in this discuission though.


Even if there was a purpose to the destruction of the D'Bari, it's clear that Jean was not aware of that purpose and was basically out of control, not deliberately going hunting the D'Bari.
She was seemingly out of control, irrational by our standards maybe, but that in itself doesn't imply a lack of greater "awareness". The Phoenix operates on a different plane, when Jean had elevated she was overcome by a new consciousness and instictively driven in ways we wouldn't understand. Everything Phoneix has done was by design.


Yeah, but there was never any evidence that the D'Bari as a culture didn't work.
Evolution and culture don't always go hand in hand. That's besides the point though as there was never any evidence their culture did progressively work either.

[AnthonyJ]

She was seemingly out of control, irrational by our standards maybe, but that in itself doesn't imply a lack of greater "awareness".
So? I never claimed anything of the sort, I just claimed that Jean becoming Dark Phoenix was categorically different from Rachel deciding to shatter the M'kraan Crystal, because whether or not the Phoenix made the decision to destroy the D'Bari, Jean Grey (the person) did not, whereas Rachel seems to have made the decision on her own, rather than by the guidance of the Phoenix Force.

Now personally, I think Morrison's handwave was both stupid and derivative (more or less identical reasoning was used in the Trial of Galactus), but regardless of that, the two events weren't in the same category.

[Daithi]

So? I never claimed anything of the sort, I just claimed that Jean becoming Dark Phoenix was categorically different from Rachel deciding to shatter the M'kraan Crystal, because whether or not the Phoenix made the decision to destroy the D'Bari, Jean Grey (the person) did not, whereas Rachel seems to have made the decision on her own, rather than by the guidance of the Phoenix Force.

But in the original story there was no Phoenix Force and Jean Grey acted as Jean Grey albeit with her dark side unleashed.

Regardless Rachel's attempts to shatter the crystal and her attempt to kill Selene are "Dark Phoenix" like in the sense that she was doing something evil/wrong.

[Slung]

So, what we have is Jean Grey (the human woman) had no knowledge of the existence of the D'bari when she consumed the star. She had been driven insane by the two for one punch of Mastermind and Emma Frost messing her mind over and a sudden rush of power beyond her control. She was in space and needed power, so she consumed the nearest power source.

Now, that was Claremont's take (with Byrne, the lovely soul he is, choosing to kill the poor D'bari).

Morrison gave us a higher purpose for the Phoenix as a being that "burns away what doesn't work." His attempt was to take away moral responsibility for the destruction of the D'bari people and make it part of a evolutionary process which Jean (the human woman) wouldn't have been aware of in her state.

There really isn't a reason that Jean went crazy and soared through the galaxy other than to say she could. Morrison tried to give her a higher reason that was beyond her comprehension and part of her evolutionary process.

That was Morrison's take.

Rachel's attempt to destroy the universe (and steal the souls of her teammates) were on a different level - Rachel was aware of what she was doing. She had not been driven mad by Mastermind and Emma. While Jean had clearly developed two (or three if you count Black Queen) distinct personalities (due to the evil mechanations of Wyngarde and Frost), Rachel was in complete control of her senses. Though these are different situations, they both were moments of human weakness and could be categorized as "Dark Phoenix".

[tunasammiches]

LOUD NOISES!!!!





ps—ooh...when did Rachel destroy the M'Kraan chrytal? I didn't know that happpened and I've never read that and I'd like to find the issues numbers please.

[Omega Alpha]

So, if the Phoenix burns away what doesn't work, it was eliminating what wasn't good enough to be there, what wasn't apt?

Meaning: for the Phoenix, only the fittest shall survive?

[AnthonyJ]

ps—ooh...when did Rachel destroy the M'Kraan chrytal? I didn't know that happpened and I've never read that and I'd like to find the issues numbers please.
She didn't; she got talked out of it. It happened in Uncanny X-men #203.

[Beast]

So, if the Phoenix burns away what doesn't work, it was eliminating what wasn't good enough to be there, what wasn't apt?

Meaning: for the Phoenix, only the fittest shall survive?
The X-Men must not have worked either, considering when she went Dark Phoenix she attacked them.

[fishtaco]

Rachel's attempt to destroy the universe (and steal the souls of her teammates) were on a different level - Rachel was aware of what she was doing. She had not been driven mad by Mastermind and Emma. While Jean had clearly developed two (or three if you count Black Queen) distinct personalities (due to the evil mechanations of Wyngarde and Frost), Rachel was in complete control of her senses. Though these are different situations, they both were moments of human weakness and could be categorized as "Dark Phoenix".Agreed. Also, she was yong, naive, and acting from her emotions instead of reason. Jean made that same mistake, but she also had to be "nudged" towards the "Dark Side", but with Rachel she was never successfully subverted by a villain (other than Mojo, although he wouldn't allow her to eat Mojoworld) since she became Phoenix. Selene tried and nearly succeeded, but ultimately failed. Her experiences as a hound for most of her childhood BEFORE she became Phoenix are the source of most of her rage, hate, and flawed "logic", such as her attempt to destroy the M'krann crystal and destroy all of creation just to destroy The Beyonder, and then to take the life forces of her teammates (some willingly, most not) later on were her decision, and she was not influenced by anyone. Like Magneto when he was a villain, her illogical actions were made of her own free will but her attitude, her solutions to problems were shaped by experiences that we can't begin to comprehend. I'd day that Ray going Phoenix was the ultimate gamble. A young adult with a tortured soul full of rage and hate given god-like power is frightening, especially given what we saw happen to her mom, who was a full-grown adult who was actually happy while she was Phoenix and did not have a scarred soul. The survival of the universe is fragile when an unstable person has the power to destroy it. It may be suprising suprised that the X-Men didn't just all try to kill her the moment she walked into that room in the mansion wearing her Phoenix outfit in Uncanny X-Men Annual #9. Of course, it wasn't much longer until an X-Man did kill her (or nearly killed her) for the same reason they would have if they did in said issue.

As I see it, her teammates don't seem to take her very seriously anymore, with the "Marvel Girl" act and all that.

[DDM]

ps—ooh...when did Rachel destroy the M'Kraan chrytal? I didn't know that happpened and I've never read that and I'd like to find the issues numbers please.

Uncanny X-Men #202-203: Phoenix attempts to kill the Beyonder, but he gives her the full powers of Phoenix instead.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.202.GIFhttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.203.GIF


Rachel does not become Dark Phoenix or is not corrupted by her powers. Fearing she is truly becoming her mother's daughter, she returns everyone back to their places before she kidnapped them to the M'Krann Crystal. The Beyonder is angry that Phoenix did not destroy the universe & wants his powers back. Phoenix gives the Beyonder back his power & then some!

Rachel did come close to being corrupted by her powers as Phoenix when she nearly murdered Selene, the Black Queen in the heat of passion in Uncanny X-Men #207:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.207.GIF

[Affinity]

Hey, Rachel fans, do you like that costume?

I don't really like it too much, I'm curious on what you guys think? Especially Fishy and Ibrake.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Hey, Rachel fans, do you like that costume?

I don't really like it too much, I'm curious on what you guys think? Especially Fishy and Ibrake.

Its not horrible, but Id really like to see her in something that suits her rather than Jean. I really wish she'd go back to the red hound costume or a variation on it.

EDIT: Which costume are you talking about? The Marvel Girl one or her original Phoenix one? I was answering about the Marvel girl one, but if youre asking about the Phoenix one I LOVED it.

[DungeonmasterJim]

I didn't mind the Rachel Phoenix costume from the posted Uncanny cover with the Beyonder. It might be even cooler with today's coloring abilities.

But I'm a sucker for the Alan Davis rendered hound outfit with spikes and stilettoes.

[Affinity]

The Phoenix one, on the cover of #203 (the one she used around those issues)?

Cool, cool.

[Omega Alpha]

The X-Men must not have worked either, considering when she went Dark Phoenix she attacked them.

No, it's just that, if a oniscient cosmic entity or whatever believes in the survival of the fittest, that means that Poccy was right all this years and we were here bashing him. I feel so ashamed:( :rolleyes:

[fishtaco]

Hey, Rachel fans, do you like that costume?

I don't really like it too much, I'm curious on what you guys think? Especially Fishy and Ibrake.I liked the costume Ray is currently wearing...when Jean was wearing it. I don't like Rachel wearing that because I think it's part of what has degraded her character and turned her into a "Jean Grey clone". My favorite Ray costume would be the original Hound one (the black one), with the tattoos visible, but wearing that wouldn't be appropriate. That's just like Magneto wearing the prison uniform he was given at Auscwitz. My favorite is the Alan Davis one...
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/rachel-bigcostume1.jpg

Other good ones...
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/rachel-bigcostume2.jpg
Not quite a costume, but it's what she wore when she first joined the 616 X-Men. I also like her original Phoenix outfit, and thank god John Romita Jr. gave her one different from the one Jean was wearing in Uncanny X-Men #101...
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/rachel-bigcostume3.jpg
I didn't like the idea of Rachel getting the Dark Phoenix outfit circa Excalibur (1st Series) #64.

Oh, and the Mother Askani one makes her look like a 12th century old lady hippie.
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/rachel-bigcostume5.jpg
Yuck.

[Beast]

Honestly none of Rachel's old costumes fit her as who she's grown into over the years. The current one is fine, as she's trying to honor her mother. Though I'm all for it being changed a bit.

[Pyro]

Hey...Havok's powers. Seeing them from an angle is almost depressing.
What do you mean?

[Slung]

I'm partial to Rachel's red hound costume. You know, when Rachel looked muscular and a little butch - like she kicked major booty. Somewhere along the way she's lost a couple inches in height, about 20 to 30 pounds of muscle and ended up in a mini-skirt. Honoring Jean? it would be demeaning for Jean to even wear such ridiculous outfit at this point. It would be one thing if it wasn't a skirt...I mean, who battles in aliens a mini-skirt?

Oh, I also like Romita Jr. old Phoenix costume. When Rachel first showed up in the outfit, I thought it was AWESOME! I like a little less now, but I still dig it.

[Syzygy]

Rachel did come close to being corrupted by her powers as Phoenix when she nearly murdered Selene, the Black Queen in the heat of passion in Uncanny X-Men #207

Not everybody believes that killing Selene would be a corrupt act. Selene, as a life-force vampire, "eats" other people to stay alive. She's extended her lifespan by 2,000 via this atrocity. I don't know how many people she eats in a week, but considering the way her powers put a drain on her resources, I suspect she has to "refuel" several times a week, at least.

Multiply two or three victims a week for 2,000 years and you've got, possibly, the world's top serial killer. So if Rachel can kill her, but doesn't, she's allowing an immortal serial killer to go on eating innocent people.

On the other hand, incomprehensibly, when the X-Men faced Dracula, they didn't hesitate to try to kill him. That Dracula is "undead" is irrelevant, since someone's ethical claim to exist derives from their sentience, not what type of creature they are.

(Obviously, bigots like Reverend Stryker would disagree, saying certain "types" of creatures--mutant--have no claim to exist. But Stryker is wrong; it's not the "type" that counts, it's the presence of thought, will, and feeling: the sentience that matters.)

So the X-Men were willing to kill Dracula on account of his vampiric serial murders, but not Selene!? Indeed, Wolverine nearly killed Rachel rather than let her kill Selene...who's still around today, still eating people.

So in my opinion, Uncanny #207 was one of the stupidiest X-stories ever. Kill Dracula (a sentient vampire): okay; kill Selene (a sentient vampire): not okay.

And of all the persons to object to the execution, Wolverine!?

Peace,
Syzygy

[kate-pryde]

Hey, Rachel fans, do you like that costume?

I don't really like it too much, I'm curious on what you guys think? Especially Fishy and Ibrake.

I absolutely hate Rachel's silly Marvel Girl outfit. It's impractical that Jean would have ever worn that.

[Cayman]

I really hated the Marvel Girl outfit at first. It's grown on me though.

It does seem a bit too plain to me. I prefer her early Excalibur look.

[Daithi]

So in my opinion, Uncanny #207 was one of the stupidiest X-stories ever. Kill Dracula (a sentient vampire): okay; kill Selene (a sentient vampire): not okay.

Did Claremont write that Dracula story? Just curious.

As for her costume. Well I don't like the Marvel Girl costume but her previous costumes don't suit her anymore. Something new for once would be nice.

[Tilt]

I don't mind the costume that much actually, but green on her really doesn't work imo. To me the color and her hair (since the Davis mushroom mess) are the biggest problems. The current hair is an improvement on the shroom, but could be a lot cuter and not look like it's been carved out of plastic with another inch or so and some movement. If I had my way, I'd have her hair longer pulled back in a thin ponytail like Saturn Girl's had in the past. Then probly ditch the "Phoenix Dawn" and use the hound marks again (but less dramatic, not covering her whole face- like in the Phoenix mini) and then maybe a whole new costume or a new hound variation.

Love how Art Adams did the JRJ Phoenix costume, if Ray were still Phoenix I'd say use that but she isn't so I'd like something new.

[Michael P]

I absolutely hate Rachel's silly Marvel Girl outfit. It's impractical that Jean would have ever worn that.
It's no more impractical than the outfit Jean *did* wear.

[DDM]

Did Claremont write that Dracula story? Just curious.

Dracula attempted to transform Storm into a vampire in Uncanny X-Men #159 & Uncanny X-Men Annual #7. Chris Claremont also wrote several Tomb of Dracula stories in the various horror related magazines & comics.

RE: Rachel's costume:

First, I want Rachel Summers to be Phoenix.
Second, I want Rachel to regain her facial tattoos so people remember or can reference her Hound past.
Third, I want Rachel to go back to wearing her Phoenix costume designed by John Romita Jr, the Alan Davis Excalibur Hound/Phoenix costume, or a completely new redesigned Phoenix costume.

I'm tired of Rachel being in the shadow of Jean Grey. As "Marvel Girl," she's just a shadow of her true self. Rachel is & always has been meant to be Phoenix.

[DDM]

Uncanny X-Men #478 is moving much better; however, the decompression is still hurting a really great story. The artwork is good. I really don't care for Professor Xavier, Vulcan, or Darwin.

5/10

[rwsmith]

Yeah, but there was never any evidence that the D'Bari as a culture didn't work.

No, there wasn't. And certainly not at the time the story was written. But what I'm saying is that Morrison implied as much when he showed the Phoenix killing that insectoid race because they were not a viable species (they had an "inbuilt genetic obsolesence" thus they had no future or something like that). So, what I took that to mean was that anytime the Phoenix carries out an extinction sequence, she is "burning away what doesn't work" quite literally.

I understand that it's not spelled out for the reader, but IMO Morrison does a nice job of retconning that little piece of history into the tapestry that he wove around the legend of the Phoenix. Since it hasn't been actually spelled out and made canon, you can choose to interpret it that way or not. It's up to you. Much like whether or not a reader might look at a panel of Cannonball carrying Bobby to the infirmary and interpret that as further proof that Iceman might be gay (which IMO is a much greater stretch than this).

Just depends on what you choose to read into things, I guess.

[phoenixV]

First, I want Rachel Summers to be Phoenix.
Second, I want Rachel to regain her facial tattoos so people remember or can reference her Hound past.
Third, I want Rachel to go back to wearing her Phoenix costume designed by John Romita Jr, the Alan Davis Excalibur Hound/Phoenix costume, or a completely new redesigned Phoenix costume.

I'm tired of Rachel being in the shadow of Jean Grey. As "Marvel Girl," she's just a shadow of her true self. Rachel is & always has been meant to be Phoenix.

I completely 100% totally agree.

I don't like this wannabe Jean Grey version of Rachel. She needs to be the real Rachel Summers.

The ridiculous Marvel Girl mini skirt has got to go. How in the world could anyone fight in that?

[Affinity]

I like the outfit now. D'armata colors do it fiiiine.

[Gene M.]

I like the outfit now. D'armata colors do it fiiiine.

Plus, mini-skirt > pants EVERY TIME!

[Affinity]

Plus, mini-skirt > pants EVERY TIME!
Except on Colossus.

[Gene M.]

Except on Colossus.

That's purely a matter of opinion.

[Ed Brubaker]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.

[Beast]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.
Sounds fabulous, Ed. While I was bugged by Havok's line still, the issue it's self was great. I don't think it's slow paced or decompressed. It feels like Claremont's classic stuff, which was a slow burn build-up and then the crap hits the fan as you speed to the wizbang finale. Keep up the good work.

Oh... Mike Carey said that Psylocke was a cast member he wanted that he couldn't have.

Anyone that you really wanted that you weren't allowed to use?

[Keith_Martineau]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.

Kinda like the Odyssey? Taking other peoples opinions around here, are we to believe that the story did not start until Odysseus finally got home to reclaim his house? Of course not. The journey was the story also.

[Gene M.]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.

Didn't you know that by reading comics you automatically become an expert in the fields of writing and editing a monthly, serialized publication? Someone will have to make sure to forward you the memo next time. :rolleyes:

[Christopher O]

No, there wasn't. And certainly not at the time the story was written. But what I'm saying is that Morrison implied as much when he showed the Phoenix killing that insectoid race because they were not a viable species (they had an "inbuilt genetic obsolesence" thus they had no future or something like that). So, what I took that to mean was that anytime the Phoenix carries out an extinction sequence, she is "burning away what doesn't work" quite literally.

I understand that it's not spelled out for the reader, but IMO Morrison does a nice job of retconning that little piece of history into the tapestry that he wove around the legend of the Phoenix. Since it hasn't been actually spelled out and made canon, you can choose to interpret it that way or not.
It's a weak interpretation with little evidence. Jean didn't carry out an extinction sequence with the D'Bari. She, basically, ate their sun because she needed the energy. If she were targeting the D'Bari, I doubt she would've wiped out the whole solar system in the process. She could've simply gone to their planet and took them out. Saying that Morrison "implied as much" isn't really supportable. Any implications came from you .
Didn't you know that by reading comics you automatically become an expert in the fields of writing and editing a monthly, serialized publication? Someone will have to make sure to forward you the memo next time. :rolleyes:
Beat me to it.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

I cant wait!!!


Anyone that you really wanted that you weren't allowed to use?

I'm pretty sure he wanted Storm, but he chose Lorna as her replacement.

[Daithi]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Cool. A lot of very good artists of drawn Rachel brilliantly. I'd love to see Tan join them.

[Gene M.]

Beat me to it.

Oh yeah. It's one of the cardinal rules. Another good one is:

"It's impossible to judge a story based on it's own merits. It MUST be compared to everything that has been written prior to it, regardless of that material's signifigance to the current story being told."

[Hi-Fi]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.

The story doesn't begin until Hepzibah appears. There. I said it!

[Gene M.]

The story doesn't begin until Hepzibah appears. There. I said it!

LOL. Cardinal rule #3.

[Hi-Fi]

LOL. Cardinal rule #3.

Well, you just don't wanna mess with the cat-people.

[Gene M.]

Well, you just don't wanna mess with the cat-people.

Damn straight.

[tunasammiches]

Honoring Jean? it would be demeaning for Jean to even wear such ridiculous outfit at this point. It would be one thing if it wasn't a skirt...I mean, who battles in aliens a mini-skirt?

Jean did. Or rather, when (the original) Phoenix died on the moon she was wearing the green mini skirt costume. And that dumb pointy mask.

As for Rachel's costume, I like it. I think it needs the black and yellow gloves back though. Tan's drawing it without the black and yellow gloves and it makes the costume look incomplete. But I don't want Rachel to be Phoenix again so I wouldn't want the hound outfits back. Whatever costume she gets next, I hope she finally gets an X-Belt. Some artists draw her buckle with it, but otherwise she's never worn one. But I think the X-pendant she wears around her neck is a cute accessory.

[Hi-Fi]

Damn straight.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/6618/images/hepzibah1.jpg

*mmiiiauuuu*



(OK, now I really can't wait to see Ed writing the cat lady)

[Gene M.]

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/6618/images/hepzibah1.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/eg_marsh/kitty.jpg

Look at the hair. Separated at birth.

[Hi-Fi]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/eg_marsh/kitty.jpg

Look at the hair. Separated at birth.

LOL! Now everytime I read Hepzibah talking, Eric's mom voice will play in my head.

[Hi-Fi]

I do have a question for Ed. More like a request:

Any chance we can see Havok talking about his love for geology or Lorna talking about hers for Archeology??

I mean, they graduated and used to love that, and it's been a really, really long time since this subject was last mentioned.

[Gene M.]

LOL! Now everytime I read Hepzibah talking, Eric's mom voice will play in my head.

My work is done! :evilsmile

[tunasammiches]

Hey Mr. Brubaker-

I really appreciate that you take the time to respond to the fans here on CBR. If you read this, I have a question:

-Are you going to play up Rachel's familial ties to Corsair, Havok and Vulcan? Hardly any other writer seems to do that.

[Daithi]

-Are you going to play up Rachel's familial ties to Corsair, Havok and Vulcan? Hardly any other writer seems to do that.

Just to add to that.

Rachel and Corsair met when the Shi'ar under Deathbird's rule decided to hunt down Rachel. The Phoenix was the mysterious "Phalkon" energy that Deathbird wanted.

Rachel and Havok never really interacted before however Craig Kyle wrote a nice issues in which the two of them talked. For some reason I'd to see Vulcan's reaction to discovering that Rachel makes the entire Shi'ar empire afraid. Or Lorna as stepmom to Ray!

Oh if we are exploring Havok and Lorna's interests, I want to see Rachel use some Shakespeare quotes alongside her pop culture quotes. Gah so much bloody potenial this cast has.

[Flameworthy]

RE: Rachel's costume:

First, I want Rachel Summers to be Phoenix.
Second, I want Rachel to regain her facial tattoos so people remember or can reference her Hound past.
Third, I want Rachel to go back to wearing her Phoenix costume designed by John Romita Jr, the Alan Davis Excalibur Hound/Phoenix costume, or a completely new redesigned Phoenix costume.

I'm tired of Rachel being in the shadow of Jean Grey. As "Marvel Girl," she's just a shadow of her true self. Rachel is & always has been meant to be Phoenix.

Oh yeah, and making her Phoenix again won't be putting her in the shadow of Jean Grey.:rolleyes: Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. As far as I can tell, that's how it will be for the foreseeable future, and the way it should stay.

How about letting Rachel find her own identity for a change instead of mooching off Jean. That means being something other than Phoenix or Marvel Girl.

[Daithi]

How about letting Rachel find her own identity for a change instead of mooching off Jean. That means being something other than Phoenix or Marvel Girl.

Agreed. I don't see how slapping her hound costume on and calling her Phoenix will somehow magically transform her or "fix" the character.

[fishtaco]

Oh yeah, and making her Phoenix again won't be putting her in the shadow of Jean Grey.:rolleyes: Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. As far as I can tell, that's how it will be for the foreseeable future, and the way it should stay.

How about letting Rachel find her own identity for a change instead of mooching off Jean. That means being something other than Phoenix or Marvel Girl.Have you even read Uncanny X-Men #'s 184-209 and Excalibur?

[Beast]

Have you even read Uncanny X-Men #'s 184-209 and Excalibur?
We all have. Doesn't mean she should be regressed from the character she's grown into back into Phoenix Jr. again. Especially when that's more or less Jean's gig. Rachel doesn't need to take that path yet again.

[Gene M.]

We all have. Doesn't mean she should be regressed from the character she's grown into back into Phoenix Jr. again. Especially when that's more or less Jean's gig. Rachel doesn't need to take that path yet again.

I haven't! :) ...............

[widdershins]

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/6618/images/hepzibah1.jpg

*mmiiiauuuu*



(OK, now I really can't wait to see Ed writing the cat lady)

She's not a cat,she's a skunk.The name (which comes from the skunk Mam'selle Hepzibah in Pogo),the tail,the fact that the members of her race had the power to secrete mind-altering pheromones and were called Mephitisoids (from mephitic=stinking) are subtle clues.

[Christopher O]

Oh yeah. It's one of the cardinal rules. Another good one is:

"It's impossible to judge a story based on it's own merits. It MUST be compared to everything that has been written prior to it, regardless of that material's signifigance to the current story being told."
Stop making sense, damn you!

[Beast]

I haven't! :) ...............
Ok, almost all of us have. :p

[Beast]

She's not a cat,she's a skunk.The name (which comes from the skunk Mam'selle Hepzibah in Pogo),the tail,the fact that the members of her race had the power to secrete mind-altering pheromones and were called Mephitisoids (from mephitic=stinking) are subtle clues.
http://www.shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_dan/The_More_You_Know.jpg

[Daithi]

We all have. Doesn't mean she should be regressed from the character she's grown into back into Phoenix Jr. again. Especially when that's more or less Jean's gig. Rachel doesn't need to take that path yet again.

Indeed. It made sense the first time because Jean Grey had died! She was never coming back! Rachel becoming Phoenix then was fine. When she moved to Excalibur it was better because a cosmic entity wasn't out of place there.

Phoenix isn't even Jean's gig anymore. It's being taken over by Emma and her Cuckoos and other assorted New X-Men dross that Marvel thinks we need to revisit. So the further Rachel stays away from that the better.

Anyway back to the issue. It seems everyone is pairing off. Ray and Warpath (loved the panel of Warpath holding her in one arm!). Havok and Lorna (like a normal ex-couple who are friends but maybe more). Nightcrawler and Dawrin (....just how adaptable is Darwin *cough*). Which just leaves Xavier on his own.

[Beast]

Nah, Phoenix is still Jean's gig. It's fragments of Jean that are empowering Emma and the Cuckoos, etc. Slung explained it really well just a short while ago. :)

[Gene M.]

Stop making sense, damn you!

Make me! nyaaaaaaaaa:p

[DDM]

It's a weak interpretation with little evidence. Jean didn't carry out an extinction sequence with the D'Bari. She, basically, ate their sun because she needed the energy. If she were targeting the D'Bari, I doubt she would've wiped out the whole solar system in the process. She could've simply gone to their planet and took them out. Saying that Morrison "implied as much" isn't really supportable. Any implications came from you .

Beat me to it.

Jean Grey, as Dark Phoenix, did not need the sun's energy for sustenance since her powers were growing expontetially; she consumed D'Bari simply for the power lust.

[DDM]

All you Rachel fans will love next issue, which is Billy's finest art to date on the book, by a mile, honestly. There's a double-page spread of his hanging on my wall right now that's so good it's not funny.

Oh, and people crying about slow pacing or decompression? Their journey is the story. The story doesn't just begin when they meet Lilandra or the Starjammers. Seeing those kind of complaints makes me wonder if people only want to read the climax of a story every month. It's like complaining that the first 3/4ths of any novel are just padding to get to the end. It doesn't make sense. Or complaining that Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts is just padding until the fight at the end of each book. The journey is the story, too.

Put more meat of the bones of your novel of a comic book then I won't talk about your story decompression.

[Daithi]

Nah, Phoenix is still Jean's gig. It's fragments of Jean that are empowering Emma and the Cuckoos, etc. Slung explained it really well just a short while ago. :)

Not really. You could claim that Rachel had a fragment of Jean for all those years which doesn't mean that Jean was in Excalibur.

Also it's plainly stated that Jean needed the sun for energy.
"I'm ravenous. Before I go on I need sustenance"

[DDM]

Jean did. Or rather, when (the original) Phoenix died on the moon she was wearing the green mini skirt costume. And that dumb pointy mask.



Although Jean Grey began the fight as Marvel Girl in Uncanny X-Men #137, she transformed to Phoenix when Cyclops was cut down in battle. Jean instinctively transformed her Marvel Girl costume to her Phoenix costume. Jean Grey ceased to be Marvel Girl when she became Phoenix again.

[DDM]

Oh yeah, and making her Phoenix again won't be putting her in the shadow of Jean Grey.:rolleyes: Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. As far as I can tell, that's how it will be for the foreseeable future, and the way it should stay.

How about letting Rachel find her own identity for a change instead of mooching off Jean. That means being something other than Phoenix or Marvel Girl.

Rachel Summers, as Phoenix, is a very different character from the original Jean Grey, Phoenix. Why? Rachel's past history as a Hound. Rachel also became Phoenix when she was 17 years old. A tortured young girl with psychic scarrs to match make for a very interesting character.

Jean Grey's Phoenix is just the girl next door turned into a psychotic power junkie.

[Gene M.]

Put more meat of the bones of your novel of a comic book then I won't talk about your story decompression.

If you hate this story so much, why are you still reading it? It sort of defeats the purpose of having a hobby if you can't enjoy it.

[Daithi]

Rachel Summers, as Phoenix, is a very different character from the original Jean Grey, Phoenix. Why? Rachel's past history as a Hound. Rachel also became Phoenix when she was 17 years old. A tortured young girl with psychic scarrs to match make for a very interesting character.

Which was all fine and dandy 20 years ago but you seem unwilling to let Rachel grow at all.

[Beast]

If you hate this story so much, why are you still reading it? It sort of defeats the purpose of having a hobby if you can't enjoy it.
Agreed. And throwing out random factoids that don't even relate to the discussion really is getting old.

[DDM]

If you hate this story so much, why are you still reading it? It sort of defeats the purpose of having a hobby if you can't enjoy it.

I like Uncanny X-Men. However, this is the ultimate rhetorcal question always asked when someone can't defend decompression.

[DDM]

Which was all fine and dandy 20 years ago but you seem unwilling to let Rachel grow at all.

Yes, but if you take away Rachel's Phoenix powers, you essentially strip the character of her fundamental existence.

[Beast]

Yes, but if you take away Rachel's Phoenix powers, you essentially strip the character of her fundamental existence.
No you don't. She existed long before she had the Phoenix powers, and she's existed long after they were gone. She doesn't need to be Phoenix Jr. anymore to be Rachel Grey. Her powers do not define her character.

[Christopher O]

Jean Grey, as Dark Phoenix, did not need the sun's energy for sustenance since her powers were growing expontetially; she consumed D'Bari simply for the power lust.
Well, I don't have the issue in front of me, but I think the motivation provided was hunger, which could easily be lust, as you say. All I know is that it had nothing to do with the D'Bari needing to be cut away, and nothing Grant Morrison did changed that.

I like Uncanny X-Men. However, this is the ultimate rhetorcal question always asked when someone can't defend decompression.
There's nothing to defend. Decompression isn't being used in this story, but I've finally figured out what you mean by decompression. There aren't a hundred thought bubbles and narrative boxes per page because the current trend is to not state the obvious and actually allow the artist to tell some of the story. This of course results in a quicker read and seemingly less "meat" since everything isn't spelled out for you. Thanks for that bit of clarity. It's been eluding me for a few years now.

[Daithi]

Yes, but if you take away Rachel's Phoenix powers, you essentially strip the character of her fundamental existence.

Okay what? She wasn't Phoenix in DoFP. She wasn't Phoenix when she was brought back. So I don't accept that. Plus there's no such thing as Phoenix powers but whatever.

Oh you clearly don't like Uncanny X-Men so why state that you do?

[Christopher O]

Make me! nyaaaaaaaaa:p
I'm telling...

[Gene M.]

I like Uncanny X-Men. However, this is the ultimate rhetorcal question always asked when someone can't defend decompression.

American Heritage Dictionary
rhetorical question
n.

A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect.


How's it a rhetorical question? It's a question in which an answer is expected and can be given.

And while we're at it, when did I ever mention "decompression"?

[Arilou]

Anyway back to the issue. It seems everyone is pairing off. Ray and Warpath (loved the panel of Warpath holding her in one arm!). Havok and Lorna (like a normal ex-couple who are friends but maybe more). Nightcrawler and Dawrin (....just how adaptable is Darwin *cough*). Which just leaves Xavier on his own.

Since they refe