Defenders: Would the concept work today? (plus some questions)

[Annie get your Rum]

I have always been a fan of the Defenders stories, from the classics to the most recent miniseries by Giffen and McGuire...

It always saddens me to see so many people calling the concept/the team lame and dismissing it as an outdated, pointless relic that doesn't work anymore...

What are your thoughts about the team and the core concept of The Defenders?

What's your favorite period of the team?


Who would you have in the team if you could have a new Defenders book?

And in this post-CW climate, would a Defenders team even be workable/have a point/be appealing to the comic-buying audience?

Did you like/love/hate the last Defenders mini(Giffen/McGuire) with its more tongue-in-cheek, in-your-face comedy, ala She-hulk or Formerly Known As Justice league?

Thanks for your opinions, ideas, etc.:)

[J. Robb]

For years my problem has been that "The Defenders" is such a better team name for the likes of Captain America, Hawkeye, She-Hulk and such. In other words- the Avengers. "The Avengers" sounds more like anti-hero team to me, the kind of team Defenders like Namor and the Hulk or (New Avenger) Wolverine would be on.

I know it's very hard to change long-standing traditions, but I would love the Defenders to be relaunched as the "good guy" hero team, starring the likes of Captain America, Spider-Man and She-Hulk, and the Avengers relaunched as the "cool" anti-hero team, starring the likes of Wolverine, Spider-Woman and the Hulk.

(Also, "The Champions" is too good a name to go unused, I'd relaunch it as a world team based in Wakanda, starring Storm, Black Panther and Hercules, among others.)

[PastePotPete]

(Also, "The Champions" is too good a name to go unused, I'd relaunch it as a world team based in Wakanda, starring Storm, Black Panther and Hercules, among others.)

Oooh. I like this idea. Call it The Champions or whatever you like, but a team based out of Wakanda with Black Panther, Storm, and other neutral heroes (The Thing is defecting from the U.S.!) would be a great book if you ask me. They could have globe-hopping adventures and we could see some of the MU outside of New York and the United States.

On Topic: I love the Defenders. It's actually a team of my favorite Marvel characters: Namor, Dr. Strange, Hulk, Silver Surfer... Never liked any of the replacement characters though. The idea that they are FORCED to work together is difficult. In a new incarnation of the team, I'd probably get rid of that wrinkle. Curse them in some other way perhaps, and have the major subplot be that they're trying to rid themselves of whatever that curse might be (by 'curse' I don't necessarily mean a magical affliction, just some common problem all the members suffer from that gets them to work as a team)

Oh, and the tongue-in-cheek version works when it's Giffen and DeMatteis. Nobody should try to emulate them. Just get a great writer and have him do his own version.

[Shellhead]

I love the Defenders, or at least two types of line-ups that they have had:

1. The powerful loners who come together to defeat the major threats, but are otherwise unable to get along. Example: Dr. Strange, Hulk, Sub-Mariner, and Silver Surfer. Sort of like an anti-social JLA.

2. The quirky and less powerful group of misfits that have each other because nobody else accepts them, that fights the really strange threats. Example: Valkyrie, Nighthawk, Hellcat and Hulk. Like the Doom Patrol, only not as freakish.

For most of the first 65 issues, various writers were able to write one or both of these types of Defenders teams. After that, the formula was lost, and we got the heavy-supernatural Defenders, the X-Men-lite Defenders, and the random-assortment-of-heroes Defenders. Busiek struggled to bring the book back to the first two kinds of teams, only they don't work so well together. Silver Surfer and Hellcat just don't belong on the same team, as they have nothing in common and yet no source of tension, and are at extreme opposite ends of the power spectrum.

In the last 20 years, I have only seen one appearance of the Defenders that worked. Jim Starlin re-united the first four Defenders in his Marvel: The End mini-series, and suddenly the old chemistry was working, even with Thanos there. In fact, Thanos almost fit right in with the rest. But I don't think that Starlin is the right guy to put on a new Defenders title, because it would just be a nostalgia experience.

Grant Morrison could do amazing things with the Defenders. Morrison has lots and lots of weird and cool ideas, as shown in Doom Patrol and Seven Soldiers. He has written great stories involving powerful characters, especially during his JLA run. And his current work on All-Star Superman is amazing. Although his X-Men run was marred by the lax continuity at Marvel in the months afterwards, that wouldn't be a problem for a Defenders title, since Hulk is the only Defender who currently has his own comic.

Busiek struggled to make the Defenders work, possibly because he was under orders to use the seven classic Defenders together: Dr. Strange, Hulk, Sub-Mariner, Silver Surfer, Valkyrie, Nighthawk, and Hellcat. If Morrison had free rein to write this title the way he wanted, he might show these Defenders operating more independently from one another, then joining to fight some really strange menaces.

[Shem the Penman]

I agree entirely that it was a mistake to force Busiek to use the "classic" Defenders. Doesn't the very idea of a "classic" Defender fly in the face of the non-team concept?

I'd much rather see Busiek, Morrison, or another good writer choose some underused characters they think they can have fun with and give them the Defenders name. Morrison's done great comics with a bunch of B- and C-listers over in Seven Soldiers -- bet he could do the same for Marvel.

As for my favorite Defenders era: Gerber, without a doubt. Least favorite would probably be late in the run, when they were mostly a storage facility for excess X-Men.

[Taskmaster]

Personally I loved the supernatural aspects of the original series and i'd like to see a returned Defenders merged with the Midnight Sons concept as a team that takes care of the threats that the Avengers don't even know about and the rest of the world doesn't even believe exists. Vampires, demons, dimensional rifts, alternate realities, they'd be Dr. Strange's go-to guys, as for the team i'd use

-Dr. Strange
-Blade
-Devil-Slayer (revamped)
-Brother Voodoo
-Bloodstone
-Hannibal King
-Adam (the Monster)
-Gargoyle (revamped)
-Werewolf

Reserve members include
-Hulk
-Hellstrom
-Namor
-Mordred
-Black Panther

[RichStanz]

Like others have said, I think the Defenders have worked (and can work) best as the Doom Patrol of Marvel; weird, obscure heroes dealing with weird, obscure problems.

But I think it may be too connected to Strange/Hulk/Namor/Surfer. There's nothing wrong with that (and after CW and Annihlation, I think this team-up could be really revitalized). Its just that "Defenders" is too good a name to not use. Same with "Champions." But they both seem to suffer from the stigma of "70s comics featuring a mix of X-men cast-offs and mystical characters."

I've read the idea of re-directing a Defenders book into something focused on the supernatural, but I have not been the biggest fan of that - mainly because I think I would like to see the horror/supernatural stuff sort of underplayed.

Personally, I would say something like Nextwave has the "energy" that the Defenders concept should have.

[Atom_basher]

My champiosn team would be

Ronan the accuser
Exodus
Mercy
Neferia
Baron Mordo

Yeah thats my line up and im sticking to it

[Golon9977]

Personally I loved the supernatural aspects of the original series and i'd like to see a returned Defenders merged with the Midnight Sons concept as a team that takes care of the threats that the Avengers don't even know about and the rest of the world doesn't even believe exists. Vampires, demons, dimensional rifts, alternate realities, they'd be Dr. Strange's go-to guys, as for the team i'd use

-Dr. Strange
-Blade
-Devil-Slayer (revamped)
-Brother Voodoo
-Bloodstone
-Hannibal King
-Adam (the Monster)
-Gargoyle (revamped)
-Werewolf

Reserve members include
-Hulk
-Hellstrom
-Namor
-Mordred
-Black Panther
Not a bad concept. You can call it.....SECRET DEFENDERS!!! oh wait that didn't workout the first time.

[Clint Barton]

Out of all the "big events" Marvel has produced since I've been reading comics, The Defenders vs. Avengers War is still my all time favorite. The Sal Buscema artwork was superb, particularly in Defenders #10 with the Thor vs. Hulk battle. Classic!

One other favorite run on The Defenders Vol. 1 was the Blue Oyster Cult inspired saga with The Headmen. Every chapter was titled by a Blue Oyster Cult song!

I"d buy a new series, but I'd like for it to be written by a classic Marvel writer....say....Roy Thomas or Steve Englehart......art by Sal Buscema with Tom Palmer inks.....

[XPac]

I like the idea of Dr. Strange being a part of a team that deals with more supernatural problems.

But I don't agree with the notion of Namor, Hulk, and Surfer being on it in any kind of full time capacity. All the characters have moved on beyond it.

If I were to do the Defenders again, I'd either have the Secret Defenders concept (where Strange chooses specific heroes for specifice missions) or retry the Midnight Sons concept (a team of specifically supernatural heroes like Ghost Rider and Blade).

I wouldn't make it a full time superhero team.

[phantom1592]

I never read the Defenders. Something about Hulk, Dr. Strange, Namor and Silver surfer all on the team was too much for me. Just seemed to have TOO much power under one roof. Ialso can't stand SS or Namor. And I hate hulk on teams.

I like the name, and if they had a cool team lineup I'd give it a shot. I like taskmasters idea, and anything that brings the midnight sons back I'd give more than just a shot too :D

[Taskmaster]

Not a bad concept. You can call it.....SECRET DEFENDERS!!! oh wait that didn't workout the first time.

Nah, if it was the Secret Defenders it'd have a team roster like Wolverine, Punisher, Luke Cage, Wolverine, X23, Thanos, Arana, Wolverine, Dr. Strange, USAgent, Wolverine, Spider-Woman, Ghost Rider, Wolverine, Spider-Woman (II), Darkhawk, the Runaways and of course Wolverine would have to show up from time to time

[MarcSpector13]

Nah, if it was the Secret Defenders it'd have a team roster like Wolverine, Punisher, Luke Cage, Wolverine, X23, Thanos, Arana, Wolverine, Dr. Strange, USAgent, Wolverine, Spider-Woman, Ghost Rider, Wolverine, Spider-Woman (II), Darkhawk, the Runaways and of course Wolverine would have to show up from time to time

HaHa sounds like the current Exiles

[firestarfan]

My all-time favorite Defenders Arc (and, in fact, the one that got me hooked on Marvel Comics) was the Overmind/Squadron Supreme story. Because of this, I have a particular affinity for the idea of a team of weird, underpowered heroes, like gargoyle, hellcat, nighthawk etc.

That said though, I think the idea behind the first Defenders team would work AMAZINGLY well in a Post Civil War Marvel U, if it was given more of a "Marvel Team-Up" theme. Imagine a team of heroes who don't like each other, don't want to work with each other, but are forced to, in order to do what's right and/or save the world.

I also like the idea of a rotating lineup, and a thread of storylines that work their way from one group of characters to the next, perhaps with some big connection being revealed at the end.

Like, the first arc would be Cap, Hank Pym, and maybe Moon Knight. Then the second could be Pym, Deadpool, Darkhawk and some B-list villian like Titania or something. The third could be Darkhawk, Wasp, Sleepwalker and Dr. Druid. Whatever the teams are, they'd all NEED to rely on each others' powers to accomplish whatever it was they wanted to accomplish.

And ideally, it would be written by me. But I think Fabian Nicieza would do quite well with the idea.

[Shellhead]

I think the original Defenders had a better approach to line-up than Secret Defenders. For most of the original run, they had a core team that changed about as often as any typical superhero team, but they frequently had a guest star who appeared for a single issue or story arc. The core group gave the comic a stable identity, but the guest stars were useful for bringing in some new readers on an irregular basis.

Guest stars in the Defenders during that run included: Hawkeye, Yellowjacket, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Thing, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Red Guardian, Wonder Man, and Moon Knight. Oddly enough for those who keep trying to say the Defenders are a magical team, most of these guest stars had an origin or background that was more scientific than magical in nature.

Once the (Secret) Defenders were reduced to whatever random assortment of heroes the writer wanted to use for a given story, the name Defender lost any relevant meaning or identity. That fans responded with indifference was understandable.

[nosferUATU]

Personally I loved the supernatural aspects of the original series and i'd like to see a returned Defenders merged with the Midnight Sons concept as a team that takes care of the threats that the Avengers don't even know about and the rest of the world doesn't even believe exists. Vampires, demons, dimensional rifts, alternate realities, they'd be Dr. Strange's go-to guys, as for the team i'd use




I would absolutely buy that book.

To keep with your description, I would have the team consist of that, interdimensional warriors, sorcerers, cosmic beings and supernatural entities.

Dr.Strange
Thundra
Blade
Satana
The Valkyrie
Silver Surfer
Devil Slayer

[The Purple Skull]

Does anyone remember around the time Marvel was prepping the Heroes Return storyline, Wizard released a special edition issue of upcoming storylines in Marvel? In one of the articles, it was mentioned that Jim Lee was gonna relaunch the Defenders. Also, he wanted to to add Ghost Rider to the team. I dunno how he would have made it work but I wanted to see his version of the Defenders. Anyone remember why it never happened?

[Haunt]

to be honest, i'd rather see the remaining New Warriors (and whoever they align with) take the name. the Defenders concept just wasn't something that could work long-term. everyone says they like mystical threats but the sales don't reflect it. but the core concept (heroes, who don't necessarily work well together, being forced to) could still work.

[The Shadow]

I think the original Defenders had a better approach to line-up than Secret Defenders. For most of the original run, they had a core team that changed about as often as any typical superhero team, but they frequently had a guest star who appeared for a single issue or story arc. The core group gave the comic a stable identity, but the guest stars were useful for bringing in some new readers on an irregular basis.
So... are they needed then? I mean... the Avengers (or New Avengers) fit that role now and always have...

[firestarfan]

to be honest, i'd rather see the remaining New Warriors (and whoever they align with) take the name. the Defenders concept just wasn't something that could work long-term. everyone says they like mystical threats but the sales don't reflect it. but the core concept (heroes, who don't necessarily work well together, being forced to) could still work.

The "Old" Warriors would be a PERFECT Defenders team. With so many relationships and so much history, a team of ex-warriors would match the Original Defenders concept. Turbo and Darkhawk don't want to be heroes at all, Firestar would have to be coaxed out of retirement to join a team with her ex, Justice would have to deal with the ego deflation thing after having been an Avenger, Nova would be awfully hardened after Annihilation, and (obviously) they'd have Stamford hanging over their heads the whole time, even if Robbie didn't join the new team -- though it'd be even better if he did.

[Haunt]

The "Old" Warriors would be a PERFECT Defenders team. With so many relationships and so much history, a team of ex-warriors would match the Original Defenders concept. Turbo and Darkhawk don't want to be heroes at all, Firestar would have to be coaxed out of retirement to join a team with her ex, Justice would have to deal with the ego deflation thing after having been an Avenger, Nova would be awfully hardened after Annihilation, and (obviously) they'd have Stamford hanging over their heads the whole time, even if Robbie didn't join the new team -- though it'd be even better if he did.

i like that idea.

[mastaflan]

The Disfunctional 4 works well. The only thing I think they need to make the series sell is a High Calibur artist like finch with Bendis writing the Script.

[jaguarshark]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but isn't something fairly similar to the Defenders concept being successfully executed in DC's Seven Soldiers of Victory?
No reason a similar concept couldn't work at Marvel today.

[Shellhead]

So... are they needed then? I mean... the Avengers (or New Avengers) fit that role now and always have...

The Avengers don't have guest-stars, just future members. ;)

[protege]

to be honest, i'd rather see the remaining New Warriors (and whoever they align with) take the name. the Defenders concept just wasn't something that could work long-term. everyone says they like mystical threats but the sales don't reflect it. but the core concept (heroes, who don't necessarily work well together, being forced to) could still work.
Truthfully, I can't see the New Warriors as Defenders- when i think of "Defenders", i think of Dr. Strange, the Hulk, Namor, Valkyrie, and Nighthawk. Remember when the original Xmen were on the team? Didn't have the same feel to it.