Britain is 'worse than 20 years ago'

[king mob]

The BBC have done this survey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5310016.stm) stating that nearly half of this ask consider Britain to be worse due mainly to things like terrorism.

Now, for those of you with short memories, 20 years ago we were regularly being bombed by the IRA. We had (arguably for some) a more dangerous threat than the rather vague threat of today. Crime was pretty high and we had the Tories doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries and ministers choking on oranges. Today we have high crime and Labour doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries while ministers shag their way through their staff.

Ok, our standard of living is generally higher but we have high levels of child poverty and homelessness compared to 20 years ago.

Basically i wouldn't say Britain is any worse or better. Some things have improved, some haven't and so on.

So does anyone think that Britain (or even your own country) is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?

[moebius]

So does anyone think that Britain (or even your own country) is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?

Really, America is dealing with the same issues (de-industrialization, globalization, terrorism and arms proliferation, out of control spending, crooked politicians, illegal immigration) that it was dealing with 20 years ago, so I'd give it a big "eh".

The way we're better is we're theoretically in a world where we can rein in govrenment spending, achieve energy indpendence and re-build our social and economic infrastructure. The way we're worse is we're not even trying to accomplish those goals.

[lectatege]

In the UK some things are definitely better - there is less casual sexism and racism, a mind bending and exponential rise in technological wizardry reasonably available to most people, better education at primary and junior level and the shops are open on Sundays - also all day boozing hoorah!.

On the minus side a definite dip in the Health Service and public services in general which seem to be increasingly hived off to the private sector (either through the front or the back door), pornography going mainstream and a frightening incursion of religion into the secular sphere.

Plus we have a government hell bent on totalitarian control (no change there) but without an effective opposition.

So the jury is still out on this one

[Drew Van T.]

Thatcherism has screwed with lots of things, pretty much most of the problems already mentioned...and it has also made Britain more similar to America than it was 20 years ago.

On the plus side, the food is much more edible than it used to be. :D

And every year the British themselves feel a little more continental and less like an insular island nation...that's my impression anyway.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Some things have improved, some haven't and so on.
This definitely goes for the US as well.

1986 was an okay year, I think. (http://www.historycentral.com/20th/1986.html)

[Iangould]

The BBC have done this survey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5310016.stm) stating that nearly half of this ask consider Britain to be worse due mainly to things like terrorism.

Now, for those of you with short memories, 20 years ago we were regularly being bombed by the IRA. We had (arguably for some) a more dangerous threat than the rather vague threat of today. Crime was pretty high and we had the Tories doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries and ministers choking on oranges. Today we have high crime and Labour doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries while ministers shag their way through their staff.

Ok, our standard of living is generally higher but we have high levels of child poverty and homelessness compared to 20 years ago.

Basically i wouldn't say Britain is any worse or better. Some things have improved, some haven't and so on.

So does anyone think that Britain (or even your own country) is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?


People ALWAYS think things were better twenty years ago.

By almost any objective measure, Australia is better off than it was 20 years ago.

[Matt]

Back in 1986 we had Bob Hawke, beer drinking legend, as Prime Minister. Now we have John Howard.

High unemployment, high interest rates ... whatever ... I'd rather live when Hawkey was in charge. At least he seemed to possess some sort of social morals.

[Iangould]

Even a decade of Howard hasn't managed to totally obliterate the good Hawke and Keating did in '86-'94.

[Matt]

Well, I'm not exactly a fan of Paul Keating's decisions ... but Bob Hawke is still one of the greatest Prime Ministers Australia has ever had.

John Howard, however, is just socially bankrupt garden gnome who only retains power because current Labour is a joke.

[king mob]

In the UK some things are definitely better - there is less casual sexism and racism

I'd say that although we've become more tolerant the levels of casual racism and sexism is still pretty high. A quick shufty through the likes of late night Channel 4 or whatever Ricky Gervais does gives evidence of this.

[Iangould]

In the UK some things are definitely better - there is less casual sexism and racism,

Are you sure the racism hasn't simply shifted focus from people of Caribbean descent to people of South Asian descent?

One of the many sad ironies about the hey-day of the racist One Nation party here in Queensland was how many of the people spouting anti-Asian and anti-Aboriginal bigotry had Greek, Italian or German surnames.

[Rachel Grey]

Even a decade of Howard hasn't managed to totally obliterate the good Hawke and Keating did in '86-'94.

I am thankful for this every day. Man, I wish someone would oust that little toad....

[jaguarshark]

Are you sure the racism hasn't simply shifted focus from people of Caribbean descent to people of South Asian descent?

One of the many sad ironies about the hey-day of the racist One Nation party here in Queensland was how many of the people spouting anti-Asian and anti-Aboriginal bigotry had Greek, Italian or German surnames.
Damn right. It was one of the most hypocritical political movements around, but that kinda goes without saying.

[Iangould]

Damn right. It was one of the most hypocritical political movements around, but that kinda goes without saying.

Think of it as a great multicultural coming-together, people who twenty years ago were spat on and called "New Australians"; "wogs" and "reffoes" united with native-born Australians to kick the shit out of the more recent immigrants.

[Iangould]

I am thankful for this every day. Man, I wish someone would oust that little toad....

I genuinely think he's there until they carry him out boots first - but judging by the way he looks these days that could be any day now.

[jaguarshark]

Think of it as a great multicultural coming-together, people who twenty years ago were spat on and called "New Australians"; "wogs" and "reffoes" united with native-born Australians to kick the shit out of the more recent immigrants.
Exactly. And the worst part was that when I was a kid, anytime I was on holiday or anything and someone asked me where I was from, the first thing they'd say after that would be something about Pauline Hanson.

Edit: I should have said 'the worst part for me'. Obviously me having to field questions about Pauline Hanson was not the worst thing that happened as a result of the rise of the One Nation party. Pretty freakin' annoying, though.

[Royal]

The BBC have done this survey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5310016.stm) stating that nearly half of this ask consider Britain to be worse due mainly to things like terrorism.

Now, for those of you with short memories, 20 years ago we were regularly being bombed by the IRA. We had (arguably for some) a more dangerous threat than the rather vague threat of today. Crime was pretty high and we had the Tories doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries and ministers choking on oranges. Today we have high crime and Labour doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries while ministers shag their way through their staff.

Ok, our standard of living is generally higher but we have high levels of child poverty and homelessness compared to 20 years ago.

Basically i wouldn't say Britain is any worse or better. Some things have improved, some haven't and so on.

So does anyone think that Britain (or even your own country) is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?

You forgot the almost harsh americanization of your cultural landscape to the point that Taking a trip there will feel like taking a plane to the corner store.

Thanks a lot Tony.

[thehod]

Ahhh, 1986.

Good things - computer games cost, like, five quid

Bad things - they looked like this...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Knight_lore_4.gif

[Pól Rua]

I misread this as Brian is 'worse than 20 years ago'.
I mean, he may be an all-seeing brain in a jar who seeks nothing less than dominion over the earth and front-row Dylan tickets, but he's okay.

[Rachel Grey]

Wiggers everywhere. We sure as hell didn't have those 20 years ago...

[Royal]

Wiggers everywhere. We sure as hell didn't have those 20 years ago...

As a denizen of the US and more specifically, a denizen of Michigan, I dutifully and humbly apologize for this unfortunate phenomea. We didn't know this form of meme even got out. We tried to conteract it with the "White Stripe Virus", but it hasn't seemed to spread as of late.

Again, we humbly apologize.

[Buried Alien]

On the plus side, the food is much more edible than it used to be. :D


I wonder if it's any easier to get a glass of fresh orange juice in the UK today than it was twenty years ago. I visited in 1987 and any time I ordered an orange juice anywhere, I got Tang (or something very much like it).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[jaguarshark]

As a denizen of the US and more specifically, a denizen of Michigan, I dutifully and humbly apologize for this unfortunate phenomea. We didn't know this form of meme even got out. We tried to conteract it with the "White Stripe Virus", but it hasn't seemed to spread as of late.

Again, we humbly apologize.
As well you should...
Incidentally, I know this will sound terrible, but isn't saying Britain is worse than it was 20 years ago just a typically British thing to say?
I'd be more shocked to hear Britons sounding optimistic about the future.

[Paul McEnery]

I wonder if it's any easier to get a glass of fresh orange juice in the UK today than it was twenty years ago. I visited in 1987 and any time I ordered an orange juice anywhere, I got Tang (or something very much like it).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Yes, it is.

The reality in England is, at least based on my last trip there in January:

People there nicer.
Multiculturalism well bedded in.
Trains not only run on time, but are pleasant!
Beer still cheaper than California.
Good food much easier to find.
TV a sight better.
BBC in general providing five times the service, at scarcely 20% extra on the licence fee.

Everything in a better state than it is over here in San Francisco.

Sure, Blair's sold off every last piece of silver Thatcher didn't let go of, so I'm sure that part of things sucks.

Which again puts it ahead of anywhere in America.

Which is no excuse for not chopping his head off in the Tower.

And all the bloody Labour Party can come up with is asking him when he'd like to resign!

In that sense, at least, the country's gone to the dogs.

[thehod]

Trains not only run on time, but are pleasant!

Who with the what with the where now??

I'd like to know where you caught a train from and to, because in my experiance the train services in England, compaired to the continent, are shagged, and I work for the company that runs the railways.

Our top speed is 125mph. France has the TGV which goes about 300mph. Japan does something similar. We are running trains on track that was first built almost 150 years ago. And we've just spent 8 billion on upgrading the prime route from London to Glasgow. NASA has earmarked the same figure for sending a man back to the moon.

I'm glad that you found it an enjoyable experiance Paul and I will admit its better than it was ten years ago, but against other countries, our train service sucks.

[lectatege]

I'd say that although we've become more tolerant the levels of casual racism and sexism is still pretty high. A quick shufty through the likes of late night Channel 4 or whatever Ricky Gervais does gives evidence of this.

Yes, still too high but people do seem to have realised that a lot of the old attitudes are indefensible - or at least they feel obliged to keep their unpleasantness to themselves rather than assuming they will be automatically endorsed.
Of course a lot of sexism is coming back as 'irony' but that's another problem...

[lectatege]

[QUOTE=Iangould]Are you sure the racism hasn't simply shifted focus from people of Caribbean descent to people of South Asian descent?

QUOTE]

Admittedly muslims are getting more stick at the moment but back in the day carribeans and asians were equally the subject of racist attitudes. I think the white racists were and are pretty much equal opportunity employers in that regard.

[Charles RB]

The BBC have done this survey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5310016.stm) stating that nearly half of this ask consider Britain to be worse

I bet you half of those asked were children in the 80s or of similar age. Only blind nostalgia can result in claims that Britain was less terror-threatened 20 years ago, or that the Transformers G1 cartoon was better than Beast Wars.

[Charles RB]

Trains not only run on time, but are pleasant!

OK, this just proves you're talking crap and haven't visited Britain this year at all. Speaking as someone who commuted via train to work out a train station for two months, DEAR LORD THE DELAYS.

[Drew Van T.]

I wonder if it's any easier to get a glass of fresh orange juice in the UK today than it was twenty years ago. I visited in 1987 and any time I ordered an orange juice anywhere, I got Tang (or something very much like it).

I still remember the first and last time I had lamb boiled in a traditional mint sauce.

But now, it's a piece of cake to find an excellent modern restaurant.

[OrochiNaga]

The BBC have done this survey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5310016.stm) stating that nearly half of this ask consider Britain to be worse due mainly to things like terrorism.

Now, for those of you with short memories, 20 years ago we were regularly being bombed by the IRA. We had (arguably for some) a more dangerous threat than the rather vague threat of today. Crime was pretty high and we had the Tories doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries and ministers choking on oranges. Today we have high crime and Labour doing dodgy deals to dodgy countries while ministers shag their way through their staff.

Ok, our standard of living is generally higher but we have high levels of child poverty and homelessness compared to 20 years ago.

Basically i wouldn't say Britain is any worse or better. Some things have improved, some haven't and so on.

So does anyone think that Britain (or even your own country) is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?

Id say Britian has improved in almost every way actually - but then most of it, such as universal internet access, etc, is due to a general progression in the free market. I wouldnt want to live anywhere else, except maybe India, Japan, Sweden or Canada.

[Ironhorse]

The youths in britain today are certainly more stupid than 20 years ago when i was a kid.

ive really been thinking how in 20 years time the country will be full of loser's and no hoper's so my advise is if your young now be good and get a good education and the world will be yours for the taking because the country will be full of the neanderthal like morons that are the youth of today grown up tomorrow.

[cactusmaac]

OK, this just proves you're talking crap and haven't visited Britain this year at all. Speaking as someone who commuted via train to work out a train station for two months, DEAR LORD THE DELAYS.

I left London because I couldn't take the awfulness of the District Line any more.

[thehod]

I left London because I couldn't take the awfulness of the District Line any more.

Ahhh, now the Underground is owned and run (and I use the word "run" in the loosest term possible) by a totally different company, so you can't blame me for that. ;)

[cactusmaac]

I like GNER. They've very rarely let me down.

I don't think I've ever been on a Virgin train that wasn't late.

[thehod]

I like GNER. They've very rarely let me down.

I don't think I've ever been on a Virgin train that wasn't late.

Virgins trains look nice an shiny, but there's no bloody room on them, and, as you say, they are always late.

GNER are ok I suppose. Must admit I don't use them all that often, as working out of Birmingham I'm mostly on the Virgin.


And there's another sentance I never thought I'd type.

[Charles RB]

I left London because I couldn't take the awfulness of the District Line any more.

The Underground, I've never had a problem with; it's all South-West Trains!

[lectatege]

The youths in britain today are certainly more stupid than 20 years ago when i was a kid.

ive really been thinking how in 20 years time the country will be full of loser's and no hoper's so my advise is if your young now be good and get a good education and the world will be yours for the taking because the country will be full of the neanderthal like morons that are the youth of today grown up tomorrow.


LOL I hope all the grammatical/spelling errors in that post are ironic otherwise we are in bigger trouble than you think

[Paul McEnery]

Who with the what with the where now??

I'd like to know where you caught a train from and to, because in my experiance the train services in England, compaired to the continent, are shagged, and I work for the company that runs the railways.
Between Ashford, Kent and London.

I was expecting the worst, and got better than I'd seen four years ago. Gobsmacked, I was.

And the station staff were helpful! I couldn't believe it.

[hoffmandu]

Do you guys still have those f*&ked up accents? If so, that sucks.

[king mob]

You forgot the almost harsh americanization of your cultural landscape to the point that Taking a trip there will feel like taking a plane to the corner store.

Thanks a lot Tony.


It wasn't Blair who kicked this off, this started during the Thatcher years, Blair just rode the wave of bland homogenisation of British culture that now dominates most cities.

Thankfully some places still hold out, where i live in Bristol being one of them.

[Tages]

Yes, it is.

The reality in England is, at least based on my last trip there in January:

People there nicer.
Multiculturalism well bedded in.
Trains not only run on time, but are pleasant!
Beer still cheaper than California.
Good food much easier to find.
TV a sight better.
BBC in general providing five times the service, at scarcely 20% extra on the licence fee.

Everything in a better state than it is over here in San Francisco.
Isn't the UK's crime rate on a whole higher than America's (though probably not San Francisco's)?

[king mob]

The reality in England is, at least based on my last trip there in January:

People there nicer. Depends if you're brave enough to wander into our city centres and weekends

Multiculturalism well bedded in.Yes, but it's a work in progress


Trains not only run on time, but are pleasant!This has been answered but our trains are really shite and overpriced


Beer still cheaper than California.How much do you pay there?!?!


Good food much easier to find.It has improved but i miss the old greasy cafes


TV a sight better.Ermmmmmm, Big Brother, ITV, anything on Channel 4 on Friday nights...


BBC in general providing five times the service, at scarcely 20% extra on the licence fee.Which everyone has to pay, whether they watch the BBC or not.



Does Antartica have any good pubs?

[king mob]

Yes, still too high but people do seem to have realised that a lot of the old attitudes are indefensible - or at least they feel obliged to keep their unpleasantness to themselves rather than assuming they will be automatically endorsed.
Of course a lot of sexism is coming back as 'irony' but that's another problem...


The whole 'Irony' thing Ricky Gervais, Jimmy Carr, Justin Lee Collins, etc do is the old attitudes though. It just has a little wink to the audience in a "hey, we know i'm not a racist 'cos i'm being Ironic".

[lectatege]

Do you guys still have those f*&ked up accents? If so, that sucks.

Gawd bless yew guvner! Yew've got to storp wotchin thert Murry Parpins video me old cock sparrer ap the apples and purrs

Daint'cha knew

[king mob]

The youths in britain today are certainly more stupid than 20 years ago when i was a kid.

ive really been thinking how in 20 years time the country will be full of loser's and no hoper's so my advise is if your young now be good and get a good education and the world will be yours for the taking because the country will be full of the neanderthal like morons that are the youth of today grown up tomorrow.


Now this is irony!

[Paul McEnery]

Depends if you're brave enough to wander into our city centres and weekends

Used to work on the corner of Oxford St and Tottenham Court Rd. Piece of cakey.


Yes, but it's a work in progress

Still better than the states.


This has been answered but our trains are really shite and overpriced

Again, try the states. Also, better than they were. And nowhere near as bad as you whingers make out.


How much do you pay there?!?!

Four bucks a pint. Pint = 16 oz. Usually with a massive head, so closer to 14 oz. And you're expected to tip a buck a drink on top of that. And there's something different about British beer that doesn't give you a hangover. Don't ask me what.


It has improved but i miss the old greasy cafes

Little place just round the corner from the Tower of London. That's in back of Catharine Docks.


Ermmmmmm, Big Brother, ITV, anything on Channel 4 on Friday nights...

Okay, I might have been pushing it there a bit. Just better than here.


Which everyone has to pay, whether they watch the BBC or not.
Hell, if you're not listening to one of the BBC's dozen or so radio channels, you're missing out. I listen to 40 hours a week of it at work. And still don't exhaust the material.

[king mob]

Ok, our telly is better. Stewart Lee is interviewing Alan Moore on primetime telly!

Our trains are still gash though.

[hoffmandu]

Gawd bless yew guvner! Yew've got to storp wotchin thert Murry Parpins video me old cock sparrer ap the apples and purrs

Daint'cha knew

LOL! That's the spot.

[Tages]

Four bucks a pint. Pint = 16 oz. Usually with a massive head, so closer to 14 oz. And you're expected to tip a buck a drink on top of that. And there's something different about British beer that doesn't give you a hangover. Don't ask me what.
There's probably less sugar in it.

[thehod]

Do you guys still have those f*&ked up accents? If so, that sucks.

Ar accents am completley fine. Its yaouw lot over the other side of the pond who cor manage ter stren tewthree words together in an decent fashion. an' the less said abart yaw mowsic the be'ah

[king mob]

Four bucks a pint. Pint = 16 oz. Usually with a massive head, so closer to 14 oz. And you're expected to tip a buck a drink on top of that. And there's something different about British beer that doesn't give you a hangover. Don't ask me what.




Trying drinking 12 pints of Stella and waking up without a hangover.

And London smells of wee.

[Charles RB]

Do you guys still have those f*&ked up accents? If so, that sucks.

Yeah - we tried to exterminate all the Geordies but the UN made us stop. :(

[Charles RB]

Also, better than they were. And nowhere near as bad as you whingers make out.

They are so as bad as we make out! You just got some freak abberation.

And there's something different about British beer that doesn't give you a hangover.

Possibly the water the bartender put in it when he saw a tourist coming in. ;)

[Iangould]

I bet you half of those asked were children in the 80s or of similar age. Only blind nostalgia can result in claims that Britain was less terror-threatened 20 years ago, or that the Transformers G1 cartoon was better than Beast Wars.

But would you agree that Crisis on Infinite Earths was vastly superior to Infinite Crisis?

[Charles RB]

Well, yeah, but being better than IC doesn't sound hard. Monkeys could make something better than IC.

[Iangould]

Isn't the UK's crime rate on a whole higher than America's (though probably not San Francisco's)?

It's virtually impossible to say because the different police forces use different definitions.

For example, the US national headline stat for sexual offences is the incidence of rape, the equivalent UK figure is the incidence of sexual assault with includes offences like flashing and voyeurism.

Non-lethal violent crimes is a similar mess. The UK stat is for "simple" assault which includes threats whereas the US figure is for aggravatd assault.

The situation is a bit better for property crime and it does appear that the rates for burglary and car theft are higher in the UK.

The other problem with the US stats is coverage. There are around 10,000 police jurisdictions around the US and anywhere up to 10% of them can fail to provide statistics in any given year. (Supposedly, providing the data is a condition of getting federal funding, in practice it doesn't seem to work that way.)

Edited to add: you also have to take into account that the UK is more urbanised than the US and cities evrywhere tend to have higher (reported) crime rates.

[Iangould]

Four bucks a pint. Pint = 16 oz. Usually with a massive head, so closer to 14 oz. And you're expected to tip a buck a drink on top of that. And there's something different about British beer that doesn't give you a hangover. Don't ask me what.



You really need to try Australian beer (here in Oz.) I can't recall hoew big a standar beer is but I think a pint would set you back around A$4/US$3. Plus next to no head.

And we don't tip.

Ulike US beer, our beers have something that WILL give you a headache - non-trace amounts of alcohol.

[Paul McEnery]

You really need to try Australian beer (here in Oz.) I can't recall hoew big a standar beer is but I think a pint would set you back around A$4/US$3.

Ulike US beer, our beers have something that WILL give you a headache - non-trace amounts of alcohol.
Bah.

The local microbrews kick Oz beer arse.

[Iangould]

Bah.

The local microbrews kick Oz beer arse.

Yes and even a mediocre full-service restaurant kicks the bst fast food place's butt.

Compare Australian mass-pmarket beers with US or UK mass-market beesrs or compare Australian micro-brews with foreign microbrews.

I know Fosters is sold in the US as a premium beer. This is bollocks.

[king mob]

I know Fosters is sold in the US as a premium beer. This is bollocks.


Its what we give schoolkids as a training beer.

[Drew Van T.]

There's probably less sugar in it.

True. In all the world, the beer least likely to give you a nasty hangover is (genuine) Guinness IMO.

There are also pure malt beers, fermented over a very long period, in which no sugar is left at all, but they are rare and unpopular...because of the uncompromisingly bitter taste, which makes them commercially unattractive (also, they may be better for your head, but the bitterness does do a number on your stomach after a while).

The thing that few Americans realize - until they go abroad - is the enormous quantities of sugar in so many of their food and drink. Adding sugar to any product is big business: it's the easiest way to make something taste "good" in a superficial sense, it's a very cheap ingredient coming from numerous sources, it invariably leads to greater individual consumption. Very important to be aware of that fact.