What makes the New X-men..... X-Men?

[ProfeZZor X]

Given it's a reason for Marvel to make more money, but what astounding feats of courage and comaraderie have these new characters done to qualify them as being "the" next generation of X-Men?.. If that's the case, shouldn't that make them the 4th generation of "new" X-Men? Especially if you coun't Xavier's failed attempt with Darwin and Vulcan's group, not to mention Colossus' and Storm's group.

Even so, I have yet to see this new group exhibit anything remotely close to what we've seen the original five do. Yes they are still new, and maybe they just need a little more time to go on a few adventures, I just don't see them surpassing Generation X's, or New Mutants accomplishments by a long shot. And I only mention those two teams because of their similar age range. :(

[Beast]

You realize they're never referred to as 'New X-Men' in the book, it's just the title of the book.

[Mikl C]

Meh. X-Man has never been a particularly hard title to pick up and drop. Some very random people have been X-men with no prior heroic feats or suitability.

[Affinity]

You realize they're never referred to as 'New X-Men' in the book, it's just the title of the book.
Exactly. It's just the title that sells the book. Cyclops' team is not the Astonishing X-Men IC, just like Uncanny is not one either.

I always preferred the title Academy X anyway.

[An Average Madri]

eh, Chamber made it, right?

[CE_Rap]

Given it's a reason for Marvel to make more money, but what astounding feats of courage and comaraderie have these new characters done to qualify them as being "the" next generation of X-Men?.. If that's the case, shouldn't that make them the 4th generation of "new" X-Men? Especially if you coun't Xavier's failed attempt with Darwin and Vulcan's group, not to mention Colossus' and Storm's group.

Even so, I have yet to see this new group exhibit anything remotely close to what we've seen the original five do. Yes they are still new, and maybe they just need a little more time to go on a few adventures, I just don't see them surpassing Generation X's, or New Mutants accomplishments by a long shot. And I only mention those two teams because of their similar age range. :(


I'm gonna do my best not to get into why writers are doing it this way and so on. At least not yet.

*commencing CE_Rap tangent* To answer your question, I don't see it yet.

THe way i look at it, however, is that i believe this was Emma's attempt at bringing forth a new era for the next generation. Where as, usually, the goal for New Mutants, Gen-Xr's and so on is always to JUST learn to use their powers (sufficite to say, it never works out that way), this team of youngsters was particularly made for the purpose of evolving into a new X-Team. These kids. X-Men. *CE_Rap dies a little on the inside*

THe world, or i should say Marvel 616, is currently the worst time to be a mutant. Registration, Decimation, Wavering extinction, and motha%$@#ers still hate you. So Emma's like, we need a new squad to help us take care of this.

Now what i find a bit....weird...ironic i should say, is that this woman continues having her students slaughtered and what have you, yet she continues plowing ahead till she gets it right. THat's incredibly selfish to me. Her heart's in the right place, but after a while, you need to take a hint. IF your a teacher, and at the end of every school year, only YOUR students flunk, and this happens every year, the teacher has to say "Hmmmm, maybe this really ISN'T my niche."

Realistically, it's weird, because i know Emma is smart enough to realize this, but is so pompous, smug and arrogant that she's like "Oh well, here goes attempt number 4." It's obvious she feels it emotionally everytime she fails her kids, but not enough to reassess her tact. So maybe this is her new method. "Instead of students, i'll make warriors."

But, unfortunately (with a few exceptions), the new squad is not a new X-Team to me. THey're the "new" New Mutants, teh new Gen-Xr's, and they still don't hold a candle to them.

(getting into the writing a bit, now) THis is because, the writers/MArvel, still wants this "kid team" going on. Fine, i suppose in theory, but if Emma was trying to make a new group of X-men, i think it would've been smarter to group the kids in this group on different X-Teams already existing. Put Hellion on Astonishing, put X-23 and Dust with Rogue, etc. Not exactly like that (...well maybe with Hellion/teacher's pet and all), but something like that. THen the kids would gain valued feild experience, and also have the limited protection of the vets.

THen, if your a talented writer, don't just have new relationships between teh kids and the vets, but MAINTAIN relationships that were already interesting among the kids. Dust, maybe she'd admire Rogue's conviction and leadership, yet still have a bond with X-23.

I'm just not buying into the fact that CYclops, ESPECIALLY CYCLOPS, would let another group of "green" kids run into danger just to get slaughtered. He was so overprotective of Kitty and Jubes, and now all of a sudden he's like "Don't worry kids, Nimrod's dead!! *jolly-jolly* :) :)

......................are you kidding me?! Cyclops would've been like "They're my kids too, and i'm not throwing them to the wolves. THey're not ready, even if they or you think they are!"

I like several of the members of New X-Men, but i think they should have tried to maintain the school aspect more, now focusing on non X-Team people (Anole, Pixy, et al). Show me how these students are dealing with the world now. How X-school isn't a blast anymore, and some of them are really, really scared. Really good writers can do this. Morrison was great at this.

*CE_Rap tangent successfuly completed*

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Actually Mike Carey had Cyclops call them the New X Men in X-Men 190. Thats the first time theve ever been called that on panel.

[CE_Rap]

You realize they're never referred to as 'New X-Men' in the book, it's just the title of the book.

he never said they were. And technically, that's what they are. Or at least, what they're gearing up to be.

[Beast]

eh, Chamber made it, right?
Yep. And then he got depowered, and was revealed to be related to Apocalypse.

Sometimes making it isn't always a good thing. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

Actually Mike Carey had Cyclops call them the New X Men in X-Men 190. Thats the first time theve ever been called that on panel.

Well, Emma does say in New X-Men #23 that the students were fighting for a spot to begin training to become X-Men.

[Zombienorthstar]

Exactly. It's just the title that sells the book. Cyclops' team is not the Astonishing X-Men IC, just like Uncanny is not one either.

I always preferred the title Academy X anyway.

Actually they are refferred to as 'Astonishing X-Men' but only at the behest of their publicist (seen in Ms Marvel #1)

The team are training to be the next generation of X-Men..so thats why the books called 'new x-men'

[Affinity]

That's just silly.

"LOOK! IT'S THE ASTONISHING X-MEN!!!"

"In other news today, the Uncanny X-Men pwned the Shi'ar Empire and have just sparked and intergalactic war," that all just sounds silly. They're the X-Men.

[ProfeZZor X]

Actually Mike Carey had Cyclops call them the New X Men in X-Men 190. Thats the first time theve ever been called that on panel.

That's kind of what prompted me to create this thread.

[Zombienorthstar]

That's just silly.

"LOOK! IT'S THE ASTONISHING X-MEN!!!"

"In other news today, the Uncanny X-Men pwned the Shi'ar Empire and have just sparked and intergalactic war," that all just sounds silly. They're the X-Men.

Well thats the joke...Carol Danvers calls them the X-Men and the publicist goes 'It's the Astonishing X-Men, dear. Adjectives are very important'

[steve2275]

I always preferred the title Academy X anyway.
so did i

[Jake V]

They're mutants that have X's on their uniforms.

Thats really all it takes.

[Tazirai]

They're mutants that have X's on their uniforms.

Thats really all it takes.
so it seems ^^

[Uncle Nobs]

I'm more interested from a design standpoint.

What the HELL is supposed to make those atrocious outfits X-Men uniforms? Aside from being godawful fugly, there is absolutely nothing thematically that yells "X-Men".

Infinite ugh.

[Citizen V]

You realize they're never referred to as 'New X-Men' in the book, it's just the title of the book.

I never knew that.If that`s the case,then why call the book New X-Men at all?:confused:

[Uncle Nobs]

I never knew that.If that`s the case,then why call the book New X-Men at all?:confused:
Do the vampires in 1987's The Lost Boys refer to themselves as Lost Boys?

Do the characters in Star Wars actually refer to their decades of war as the Star Wars?

Does Clint Eastwood's character refer to himself as Unforgiven?

It's a narrative title.

[Callisto]

Now what i find a bit....weird...ironic i should say, is that this woman continues having her students slaughtered and what have you, yet she continues plowing ahead till she gets it right. THat's incredibly selfish to me. Her heart's in the right place, but after a while, you need to take a hint. IF your a teacher, and at the end of every school year, only YOUR students flunk, and this happens every year, the teacher has to say "Hmmmm, maybe this really ISN'T my niche."*


that's reallly a bit much. especially considering the times her students were slaughtered wasn't her fault at all. the genosha incident can not at all be blamed on her and the death of the hellions is not her fault either they were targetted by fitzroy to be drained of there powers its not like she sent them on a suicide mission like *cough* xavier *cough*.

[CE_Rap]

that's reallly a bit much. especially considering the times her students were slaughtered wasn't her fault at all. the genosha incident can not at all be blamed on her and the death of the hellions is not her fault either they were targetted by fitzroy to be drained of there powers its not like she sent them on a suicide mission like *cough* xavier *cough*.

yea i here ya. But the difference is that the X-Men were better trained. There were suicide runs, sure. But they had a connection to Xavier that made them trust him. And, they didn't die. Not really, anyway.:rolleyes: And yes, i suppose he's been a dick in the past, but i wouldn't compare him to Emma. Not in the least.

Besides Hellion, there isn't anyone who looks up to Emma like that. And the only reason he does is because Emma pretty much declared him her pet. Students resign themselves to be civil and show her respect as their headmaster. I strongly doubt they look at her any deeper than that.

True, the deaths weren't all her fault. At the end of the day, she doesn't see it that way. And to a certain extent, she shouldn't. That may sound cold, but she's responsible for her kids to a certain degree. The leader must always take responsibility for having a teammate die, let alone the entire team. That's a an ideal you'll find with cops, or fire fighters. If a fire chief always led his team into a burning, and five out of ten times several of his teammates were killed, people would start to wonder about his capability as a chief.

Now, a rebutal could be VUlcan and his crew getting their asses handed to them. You gonna tell that wasn't Xavier's fault? Of course it was. Probably his first major failure. So on his next go around, the mutatnts he picks are adults that are in control of their powers. He reevaluated the situation. He's still a dick. It was still origanally a bad choice. But he fixed the error the best he could, and the team was better for it. THe two teammates who died from the new team, (Thunderbird and Changeling), they gave their lives for the greater good, so that isn't blood on Xavier's hands. Actually, that goes for Jean too. (Well, i mean....if it was still actual Jean who killed herself on the moon. It wasn't...but it still counts cuz it was Jean, but not real...........................sorry, moving on)

Yes, there are ALWAYS casualties. Understood. But come on, Emma's at the point where it becomes a sick joke. SHe probably says to herself "God must have a sense of humor, all right!" By that point, she really should resign yourself to her fate. It's not her niche, or she needs a very, very different approach. You know what'd change my mind? If Emma took a bullet for a student. I'd really like to believe, deep down, she would. But i want to see it. And bullet is more figurative than literal.

Also, I realize there are more instances where she has had things done to her kids as opposed to actually going on a mission and having them killed. All the more reason i think she needs to change her entire approach. She should have been training them hard from the get go, which might be what she wanted from the start. Then decimation happens, then Icarus' thing happens, and she's like, "Okay, I need to act now."

AND, for God's sake, DO NOT LEAVE THEM ALONE!! EVER!! EH-VER!! She's just as responsible for the next kid who dies from Nimrod as Cyclops is. How the hell, after EH-VER-EE-THING she's witnessed could she let them stay home alone? Negligable Homicide, Ms. Frost. Negligable Homicide.

"Everytime i try to save innocent lives, I fail. Everytime. Now another of my students is dead. So no Scott, I'm not okay." I like that part because it was the moment Emma stopped and thought about her methods; if she really is right for the job. Very deep stuff. Now, in the following arc, she should've been like, "Tell Storm congrats, but i'm staying with the kids."
--actually, did she go to Storm's wedding? I skimmed the issue a while back and was more focused on Cap and Iron Man, so i forget. If not, where is she during that "Nimrod" arc?

So now, when this next kid dies, that won't be her fault? I'm not buying it.

[Syzygy]

Well, Emma does say in New X-Men #23 that the students were fighting for a spot to begin training to become X-Men.

This is the part I've always had something of a problem with.

Two of the major principles which constitute the heart of Xavier's school are 1) exercise restraint in the use of your powers, and 2) never use your powers violently against your classmates. I don't think the assertion that these principles are key to Xavier's schooling and philosophy is at all controversial.

It's also pretty clear that most of the kids there desire to be X-Men themselves, to one degree or another.

Then comes Decimation, and two weeks after, Frost gathers most of the remaining powered students into the Danger Room and tells them that they are to engage in a brawl, a free-for-all. Last ones standing get to be X-Men.

Forgetting for a moment how easily some of them could have been maimed or killed, what Frost is essentially saying is: betray the school's principles and you can get what you most desire. In other words, the classic Hellfire club seduction gambit.

If the kids can't resist this gambit when Frost poses it, what happens when villains such as Loki, Mojo, Selene, or Belasco resort to the same trick?

Anyway, I find it interesting that the ethical compromise inherent in the genesis of the new team is rarely been commented upon, either by characters in the books (certainly some of the X-Men wouldn't approve of this), or even very much on the forum here.

Interestingly, the only students to refuse this ploy are the telepathic triplets. They lost their chance to be X-Men exactly because they refused to compromise their principles.

Funny how that works out, eh?

Peace,
Syzygy

[Blackcat]

If you think about the new Mutants/X-Force some became X-Men: Warpath, Mirage and Cannonball. If you consider X-Corps as X-Men teams even more (Sunspot, Magma, Syrin and Ferall).

Gen X had Husk, Chamber and Jubilee as X-men If you consider X-Corps as X-Men teams even more (Monet)

So I guess some of these students might become X-Men one day. I think Hisako and the Cuckoos will be the first.