Annan Snubbed, Ignored during his trip to Iran

[jmc247]

Annan Snubbed, Ignored in Iran Meeting

The U.N. chief got little satisfaction Sunday at the close of his trip to Tehran, snubbed by Iran's leader over international demands to stop enriching uranium and ignored in warnings not to incite hatred by questioning the Holocaust.

In a provocative move on the final day of Kofi Annan's two-day visit, Iran announced it would host a conference to examine what it called exaggerations about the Holocaust, during which more than 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis.

The move was sure to draw new international condemnation of Iran's stance on Jews. Hours after the announcement, Annan repeated his displeasure over an exhibition in Tehran of cartoons mocking the Holocaust that was opened as a response to Western caricatures of Prophet Muhammad.

"I think the tragedy of the Holocaust is an undeniable historical fact and we should really accept that fact and teach people what happened in World War II and ensure it is never repeated," Annan told reporters.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2390874&page=1


Nations and International bodies like the UN can get things done if they either respected or feared. The UN, the EU, and much of the Western world is not repected or feared. The Anglo-American coalition, because of Iraq and Afghanistan has been drained of its respect and fear. And, Israel because of its failure in Lebanon has had its aura of invincibility busted.

The problems in Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Iraq are all centered around the unwillingness of democractic governments to commit massive numbers of ground troops and do whatever it takes to win wars, thus a certain level of stalemate always ensues. Iran now knows that even in the worst case they get attacked, it will be a few days of bombing before international pressure forces the US or Israel to stop and that is why they are sitting pretty today and Supreme Leader Khamenei and Ahmadinejad feel safe to snub the world.

If the Western world wants to be able to prevent the ambitions of such madmen they better learn to speak softly and carry a big stick

[Ontir]

In respect to Iran, there's also the troublesome little fact, that we, the United States, destroyed their democratic government decades ago, to put the Shah in power, training his Savac to more effectively torture people (Like the late Ayatollah Komeni's son, who was killed in the process.), to get information and maintain a brutal order. This, of course, was after we back-tracked on the promises of the 14 Points, and left a Middle East, desperate for a new paradigm, and very interested in democracy, after the fall of the Pasha, to Colonial Powers we'd promised to help them avoid. After that, we became more usurious of them, and that was the beginning of why they hate us.

[jmc247]

In respect to Iran, there's also the troublesome little fact, that we, the United States, destroyed their democratic government decades ago, to put the Shah in power, training his Savac to more effectively torture people (Like the late Ayatollah Komeni's son, who was killed in the process.), to get information and maintain a brutal order. This, of course, was after we back-tracked on the promises of the 14 Points, and left a Middle East, desperate for a new paradigm, and very interested in democracy, after the fall of the Pasha, to Colonial Powers we'd promised to help them avoid. After that, we became more usurious of them, and that was the beginning of why they hate us.

Iran's Mullahs hate us because they are religious fanatics. Iran's people are one of the few in the Middle East that don't hate us. There are no historical excuses for todays actions by Iran's government.

[drwho]

Didn't the iranian people vote to put that crazy man into office? What does that tell you about that iranian society as a whole cus it definitely doesn't tell us that they love us.

[jmc247]

Didn't the iranian people vote to put that crazy man into office? What does that tell you about that iranian society as a whole cus it definitely doesn't tell us that they love us.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guards which Ahmadinejad controls not only guards the elections, but also counted the ballots. The Iranian election was as democratic as the recent elections in Belarus.

[Paul McEnery]

The Iranian Revolutionary Guards which Ahmadinejad controls not only guards the elections, but also counted the ballots. The Iranian election was as democratic as the recent elections in Belarus.
This is true.

Iran's Mullahs hate us because they are religious fanatics. Iran's people are one of the few in the Middle East that don't hate us. There are no historical excuses for todays actions by Iran's government.
This is not.

See Ontir's point above.

[Ontir]

Iran's Mullahs hate us because they are religious fanatics. Iran's people are one of the few in the Middle East that don't hate us. There are no historical excuses for todays actions by Iran's government.

That's a load of crap. The current situation, with the religious fanaticism is fueled by the imperial era, the former Ottoman Empire having been divided up by Europe, and largely by Britain. We made them a great many promises - back then, we were the only western power who hadn't yet screwed them over, and they trusted us. After Woodrow Wilson died, America abandoned the League of Nations, and the exporting of democracy died a quick death. After WW II, when we became the new empire, we went into the middle east, and exploited the nations anew. To the people of those nations, we were worse, because we, unlike Europe, had pretended friendship, and were thought to be honourable. That, along with making sure democracy ended in Iran, and propping up the Shah, as I mentioned earlier finalized the turn against us. Every time America turns its back on the ideal of the Constitution, it costs us in our own blood. It's an important lesson that needs to be finally learned.

[Phrozen]

Persia (Iran) was never part of the Ottomon Empire, though they had oil deals with the British.

[Iangould]

Nations and International bodies like the UN can get things done if they either respected or feared. The UN, the EU, and much of the Western world is not repected or feared. The Anglo-American coalition, because of Iraq and Afghanistan has been drained of its respect and fear. And, Israel because of its failure in Lebanon has had its aura of invincibility busted.

The problems in Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Iraq are all centered around the unwillingness of democractic governments to commit massive numbers of ground troops and do whatever it takes to win wars, thus a certain level of stalemate always ensues. Iran now knows that even in the worst case they get attacked, it will be a few days of bombing before international pressure forces the US or Israel to stop and that is why they are sitting pretty today and Supreme Leader Khamenei and Ahmadinejad feel safe to snub the world.

If the Western world wants to be able to prevent the ambitions of such madmen they better learn to speak softly and carry a big stick


Yeah what the west needs is to commit more atrocities - because the only way to lead or to have influence is to inspire fear.

Ever wonder how the US beat the soviet Union?

Hint: it wasn't by emulating the gulags and planned famines or the invasion of Hungary.

Ever wonder how Washington and the constitutional convention took a country in which initially only about one third of the population supported secession and rallied them behind them?

Hint: it wasn't by copying the British tactics of hanging prisoners and destroying the property of members of the opposing party.

[Iangould]

Didn't the iranian people vote to put that crazy man into office? What does that tell you about that iranian society as a whole cus it definitely doesn't tell us that they love us.

It tells us about 80% of the public boycotted the election becasue the Mullahs banned all the liberal and moderate candidates.

Ahmadinajad won because he was seen as the remaining candidate least closely associated with the Supreme Leader; because he promised a crack down on official corruption (which the Ayatollahs are heavily involved in) and because he promised to ease some of the petty restrictions on women's dress and the like.

[Ontir]

Persia (Iran) was never part of the Ottomon Empire, though they had oil deals with the British.

I didn't say they were. I spoke about the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which was in the region, and our promises to help democratic societies rise from the ashes of that empire, and what WE, the United States of America, DID in Iran, which ended democracy, and perpetuated a brutal regime, for which we are hated. Perhaps it could've been stated more clearly, but it wasn't inaccurate.

Ahmadinajad is largely a puppet of the Mullahs, who currently has lower numbers than Dubya, if you can believe it. He puts on a show, which the Mullahs approve, but hasn't much to do with the way an increasing number of Iranians feel about their own society, or the west in general. Increasingly, there's a greater push to return to the metropolitan existence of pre-revolution Iran, but hopefully without the tyranny of the last 2 paradigms.

[drwho]

It tells us about 80% of the public boycotted the election becasue the Mullahs banned all the liberal and moderate candidates.

Ahmadinajad won because he was seen as the remaining candidate least closely associated with the Supreme Leader; because he promised a crack down on official corruption (which the Ayatollahs are heavily involved in) and because he promised to ease some of the petty restrictions on women's dress and the like.

Evidently, it must not have bothered the 80% of the people that didn't vote that he is in office, or they would be trying to do things to change it.

[Cam63]

There's just too many mean buggers in the world.

[Adam Crocker]

Evidently, it must not have bothered the 80% of the people that didn't vote that he is in office, or they would be trying to do things to change it.

Considering that Iran is a repressive police state and that it jails its protestors and dissidents...could your statement possibly be anymore condescending and atrociously ignorant?

[Phrozen]

Ahmadinajad is largely a puppet of the Mullahs, who currently has lower numbers than Dubya, if you can believe it. He puts on a show, which the Mullahs approve, but hasn't much to do with the way an increasing number of Iranians feel about their own society, or the west in general. Increasingly, there's a greater push to return to the metropolitan existence of pre-revolution Iran, but hopefully without the tyranny of the last 2 paradigms.

Well, of course. Hell, the Iranian entertainment industry often portrays the secert police as evil. I know that isn't much of a stretch but still. Then again, the generation that started the revolution in Iran pretty much got wiped out in the Iran-Iraq war and those that are left are probably feeling very disenchanted with the whole thing.

[Paul McEnery]

Well, of course. Hell, the Iranian entertainment industry often portrays the secert police as evil. I know that isn't much of a stretch but still. Then again, the generation that started the revolution in Iran pretty much got wiped out in the Iran-Iraq war and those that are left are probably feeling very disenchanted with the whole thing.
I recommend to you Andy Kershaw's BBC Radio 3 documentary on how things were in Iran while he was there. As far as I know, it's the only unbiased and personal piece of journalism there is on the country (though I'd be delighed to hear more).

But yeah, of course they hate the secret police. Nobody ever likes the secret police. That there actually was/is an Iranian entertainment industry speaks volumes.

But we're not helping them by backing Iran into a corner. What we're helping is Ahmednijad's paranoia.

[Iangould]

Evidently, it must not have bothered the 80% of the people that didn't vote that he is in office, or they would be trying to do things to change it.

Maybe they think it's unpatriotic to do too much to oppose their government when two of the coutnries neighbouring them have been invaded and occupied by a hostile power and a third (nuclear-armed) neighbour is allied to that same power and hosts significant forces from that power.

Or maybe it has something to do with the Shah having built up one of the msot efficient police states in the world with the help of the CIA and the Islamic Republic having taken over most of it intact. (The former head of the shah's secret polcie turned out to be a mole for Khomeini and kept hi job after the revolution.)

But, of course, I'm sure you personally can give us countless first-hand accounts of how you risked torture and death for liberty and justice.