Rebuilding Iron Man's Rogues Gallery.

[shades of eternity]

After the civil war, Iron Man could very well get something he's never really had.

Memorable villians:

Think about it

you think spidey, you think doc oct, green goblin, scorpian and venom

FF has Doom and Galactus.

Xmen has magneto, sinister and apocalypse as well as setinels.

Cap has the Red skull.

Iron man's villans just don't seem as iconic and/or enthralling (even though the Manderain is a great character with a bit of tweaking could be a great villian for the entire marvel universe). Modok's a stump, and AIM, while fun doesn't have a proper face to fight.

So once he's back to being a hero vs bad guys, what would you give him for his rogues gallery to give it more oommph.

Also is there any theme that should be played when giving Iron Man new villians?

here's one off the top of my head

1. Circuit Breaker - although originally created for the transformer marvel comic, with her phobias/hatred of mechanized life forms, raw intelligence and sheer power level (to say nothing of the cheezecake factor), she could be a great foil if redone for tony.

Plus her em pulse could really give tony a miserable time now that he has nanites in him.

Circuit Breaker is owned entirely by Marvel, so no problem integrating her entirely.

Don't need any of the other characters though from that series, too cheezie

[Nomad]

The melter, his true arch-foe.

[Haunt]

he's definately grown out of his rogues gallery.

[Bobster777]

I've always been a big fan of Mandarin. It woud be easy enough to revamp the guy.

[protege]

whiplash, the freak, the Controller, Spymaster, Midas, Unicorn, Titanium man,- Some of them i'd like to see again.

[brundlefly]

I thought IM: THE INEVITABLE did a decent job of refreshing some of his rogues, like Living Laser (who's a legit bit-time threat), Spymaster (made him more independent instead of a merc) and Ghost (well, I didn't care for his costume change into the Sprockets-style leotard, but that's beside the point). A lot of IM's main villains are currently deceased or on ice, such as Mandarin, Justin Hammer (literally), Obadiah Stane, Dynamo, Titanium Man (the guy who showed up in ASM was just a stooge in armor, it seemed), Whiplash/Blacklash (I think I saw new ones pop up in THUNDERBOLTS, though), etc. The rest get used as Avengers villains as much as they do IM villains, like Nefaria or Ultron, so they're not perceived as part of his individual rogues gallery. As a result, he doesn't have a lot of options for rogues and could use some new additions. It seems like a lot of his villains end up being Justin Hammer/Obadiah Stane clones (just corporate rivals) or just guys with gadgets that aren't as sophisticated as his armor, so they need to break out of that mold. I personally like the Mandarin and his status as IM's big-gun nemesis. What with Mandarin showing up in the movie, I hope we see him return soon. But I agree that Tony does need a more expanded grouping of memorable villains.

[IMJ]

I thought IM: THE INEVITABLE did a decent job of refreshing some of his rogues, like Living Laser (who's a legit bit-time threat), Spymaster (made him more independent instead of a merc) and Ghost (well, I didn't care for his costume change into the Sprockets-style leotard, but that's beside the point). A lot of IM's main villains are currently deceased or on ice, such as Mandarin, Justin Hammer (literally), Obadiah Stane, Dynamo, Titanium Man (the guy who showed up in ASM was just a stooge in armor, it seemed), Whiplash/Blacklash (I think I saw new ones pop up in THUNDERBOLTS, though), etc. The rest get used as Avengers villains as much as they do IM villains, like Nefaria or Ultron, so they're not perceived as part of his individual rogues gallery. As a result, he doesn't have a lot of options for rogues and could use some new additions. It seems like a lot of his villains end up being Justin Hammer/Obadiah Stane clones (just corporate rivals) or just guys with gadgets that aren't as sophisticated as his armor, so they need to break out of that mold. I personally like the Mandarin and his status as IM's big-gun nemesis. What with Mandarin showing up in the movie, I hope we see him return soon. But I agree that Tony does need a more expanded grouping of memorable villains.


Great thread. Good points. I must say though that the character Temugin was a shining star to come out of Grell's run on Volume 3. I'm simply fascinated with this character as a villain... he's powerful, cunning, smart and his motivations are fantastic. If the Mandarin never came back and Temugin evoled to rightfully take his place forever, I'd be truly happy with that. This was an instance in which change was brough on by very good character evolution and it was totally acceptable and even improved IMO.

[shades of eternity]

I originally wrote it for the "make villainous wuse - credable"

**************

Bring back Gideon, give him a healthy dose of David Xanatos and make him what he was supposed to be.


The ultimate corporate villian.

Give him a makeover that would make him awesome in a cyberpunk 2020 style, redefine his abilities (explain how he duplicates the x-factor of other mutants and maybe put a limitation or 2) and give them kewl techo-sword thingies, but he prefers to let his henchmen take care of violence. Give him a touch of that Virgin CEO in personality and have him do outrageous things sometimes just cause he can.

He has nothing less then a stirling reputation as a fortune 500 trendsetter to the outside world.

If Xavier's mansion really ticks him off, foreclose and/or release video tapes of their activities to the media, which he controls. Give them a pr nightmare. Plus draft an x-men or two to get better benefits, using the same rational why the FF became celberties instead of outcasts.

Have him donate millions to genetic research for his own usage, maybe even sponsor sinister for his own plans.

Have privately run orphanages sponsored by him to see if he can find "promising" minions.

Have him outflank the hero's by having them dealing with brush files, while he strikes several places at the same time.

Give him a descent 21st century marvel technology, a descent trading relationship with Wakanda and Lativara, and quite a bit of that old iron curtain technology all merged together with some of the brightest minds on the payroll.

And after fustrating the heros in ways from 5 to 6 different ways, he smiles shakes hands and goes home, because their actions have helped him in his own objectives.

Do this and he would have been awesome.

**************

now either 1. Tweak the character to make him a economic and combative rival or 2. use the basic principles of this character concept and make a new character entirely, and presto, a real rival for Tony.

[brundlefly]

Great thread. Good points. I must say though that the character Temugin was a shining star to come out of Grell's run on Volume 3. I'm simply fascinated with this character as a villain... he's powerful, cunning, smart and his motivations are fantastic. If the Mandarin never came back and Temugin evoled to rightfully take his place forever, I'd be truly happy with that. This was an instance in which change was brough on by very good character evolution and it was totally acceptable and even improved IMO.

I totally forgot about Temugin. You're right; he's the rare example of a son taking up the father's mantle done right. Sometimes it can be done (Baron Zemo I & II), but most times not so much (Kraven's unwanted offspring). I was just underwhelmed by Mandarin's "death" in that Dragon of Heaven arc (as even Tony didn't buy for a second that he had actually been killed), but then they intro'd Temugin and declared "Nope, Mandarin's dead" and my reaction was "Dead? Are you kidding me?" That put me off the Temugin character initially, but then I grew to like him over time since he wasn't just a clone of his dad. It would be nice to see a villainous father/son duo go against Iron Man when Mandarin inevitably returns.

Nice suggestion of Gideon as an IM rogue, shades of eternity. He was the only one of the Externals that I was sad they killed off over in X-FORCE. Since no one else is going anything with him, Tony could certainly use him as a villain.

[shades of eternity]

This crazy idea is better than I thought

http://www.mutanthigh.com/gideon.html

"the ability to absorb the powers and skills of anyone (or even a robot) in close proximity"

guess what tony has in him now :)

edit: even more so
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_%28comics%29

"Gideon has the ability to mimic any nearby skill, talent, or power possessed by a person or mechanical being (such as an android or a battle suit) "

I'm liking it more and more. :)

[Deadpooligan]

I don't think anyone has really posed a truly superior threat to Iron Man after he developed the Modular Armor (the one you see on TV and all the Marvel versus Capcom games; Iron Man #300).

He's becoming so strong with all his upgrades, he's ready to start going against cosmics, IMO.

Oh yeah, and the return of Mandarin? Yeah, I hoped so too, but his son (Temugin) is such a wimp, and I think the only one who can take up his mantle.

I would like to see an Extremis-style Crimson Dynamo revamp. He'd kick ass.

[IMJ]

I don't think anyone has really posed a truly superior threat to Iron Man after he developed the Modular Armor (the one you see on TV and all the Marvel versus Capcom games; Iron Man #300).

He's becoming so strong with all his upgrades, he's ready to start going against cosmics, IMO.

Oh yeah, and the return of Mandarin? Yeah, I hoped so too, but his son (Temugin) is such a wimp, and I think the only one who can take up his mantle.

I would like to see an Extremis-style Crimson Dynamo revamp. He'd kick ass.

This is not true, actually. This has been a big gripe for much of the fanbase for some time now; that Iron Man has been demonstrated as being depowered or not up to snuff as he should be. There are some recent exceptions where things have been done "right", IMO.

[Expletive Deleted]

I always liked the Tony/Madame Masque dynamic. Toss in a new corporate foil (strictly a corporate slimeball - no powers or armor, at least initially), an improved Living Laser or Melter (for the occasional straight-up supervillainy), and a revamped AIM (I'm always surprised they're not a staple of his rogues gallery instead of Captain America's), and I think he's good to go.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Don't forget Tony's greatest foes:

Johnny Walker, Jim Beam, and Captain Morgan. ;)

I'm not sayin' he needs to fall off the wagon again, but if there's a way to show him struggling with his alcoholism in a storyline that does it justice (maybe feeling isolated and abandoned after Civil War?) that would be pretty entertaining.

I agree that with his Extremis 'upgrade', some of his old rogues just don't seem like much of a threat anymore. He just leveled Crimson Dynamo while he was essentially 'multi-tasking' by stopping his heart and resuscitating him (now that's what I call a reboot!). I'm thinking he's ready for Avengers foes in solo fashion. I could see him going up against Kang or Ultron these days.

Probably the best way to establish his rogues gallery is to give him new, higher-powered enemies. Give them a personal history with him, so they have a major vendetta for him exclusively. Mild Spoiler: I like the current arc with Ho Yinsen's kid raising hell with him, but it looks like those days are essentially over. Maybe Nefaria as he's Madame Masque's father, right? Living Laser seems 'upgraded' now, maybe Spymaster or Ghost can get their paws on some Extremis variant or something, to sort of even the odds and make things interesting. Another alternative is to get him through the heart, to establish a love interest that we can't quite trust, maybe working towards his demise. Someone who can get to Tony Stark when the armor's "off" and effectively get past his armor. That always makes for good dramatic tension.

[marshal99]

I like villains that are sort of like evil counterparts of the hero , something like Titanium man or crimson dynamo. The evil War machine in the early IM issues fits the bill , he's a mercenary who is highly skilled and can whoop iron man with his tech.

Mandarin has been mentioned , there's also Fin Fang Foom , Ultimo , Justin Hammer and his hired mercenaries and controller . :)

[Chou Blaster]

Really though, IM is so twinked out, he has out growen his villains.


Though I would love to see a new Spy Master with gadgets to match Tony's armor.

[Bobster777]

Really though, IM is so twinked out, he has out growen his villains.


Though I would love to see a new Spy Master with gadgets to match Tony's armor.
They can easily make Mandarin a formidable opponent to the all new IM. Give Mandarin some uber powerful rings (even some fitted with lets say the infinity gems) and we got ourselves one heck of a fight.

[mandog]

I have always enjoyed him scrapping with Fing Fang Foom. I think Namor could be a great character to put at odds with IM from here on out. Plus I think the Hulk has a bone to pick.

Id also like to see Tony get on the bad side of SHIELD after CW. I want to see SHEILD take Tony apart. Take his business, freeze his bank accounts, etc, then go after him physicly with troops in armor he designed.

[Shellhead]

Iron Man has some decent villains, but they just haven't kept up with his technological advances. For example, Crimson Dynamo, Blizaard, Blacklash, Spymaster, the Ghost, M.O.D.O.K., Mandarin, Ultimo, Titanium Man, Unicorn, Firebrand, Dr. Spectrum, the Freak, the Living Laser, and the Yellow Claw. I'd even like to see a couple of obscure opponents come back, like the Sunturion, Cyborg Sinister or the Masters of Silence. Sure, some of these characters are "dead", but that doesn't mean a lot in the Marvel Universe.

If some evil mastermind gave a bunch of them an increase in power, these old rogues could really challenge Iron Man again. However, if the increased power was technological in nature, that could prove problematic, if Iron Man was able to reverse-engineer and upgrade his own tech after studying theirs. Maybe if Kang or another time traveller was involved, the tech could be so futuristic that Stark wouldn't be able to duplicate it. Alternatively, if a powerful sorcerorous type imbued Iron Man's villains with magical enhancements, the whole technology issue could be side-stepped. Thematically, that might not be the best way to go.

Another thing that made Iron Man's rogues gallery distinctive back in the day was the Cold War political dimension of some of them, like Crimson Dynamo, Mandarin, and Titanium Man. Although the war on terror has shifted the focus elsewhere, there is still great potential for tension between China and the United States. Since 25% of the people on Earth live in China, it stands to reason that 25% of the superhumans and geniuses would live there, too.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Really though, IM is so twinked out, he has out growen his villains.


Though I would love to see a new Spy Master with gadgets to match Tony's armor.

Outgrown his villains, I'm sorry but that sounds silly to me. Who does Iron Man fight if not his villains, generic terrorists and corporate slime balls, that will get boring after awhile, plus I think a lot of his villains have potenial.

The Controller: Perhaps give him a new costume your set to go. He has elements of a good villain: a psychopathic personality, a good motive and cool gimmick. Just upgrade his costume and his technology (mind control nano bots instead of his old "slave" discs) and your good to go.

The Ghost: Again there is nothing wrong with his villain he is merely underused. Again he his ideals are the opposite of Iron Man's he has fanatical hatred of corporations and is willing to sacerfice his own life to achieve his goals. In some ways he as an anti thesis to Iron Man's views. Just give him his old costume back your good to go.

Living Laser: His powers make him more then a match for Iron Man. Plus he has a creepy stalker thing that has been around since the silver age: take a look at his first appearance and his interest in the Wasp. Another fine underused villain.

Crimson Dynamo or Titanium Man: Its time to make one of Iron Man's old armoured foes a threat again. Here is an idea: in Russia a group of ultra nationalists are planning on overthrowing the government and replacing it with a facist style dictatorship. The leader of this movement is an old school Russian general who has over seen quite a few campaigns in afghanistan in the 80s and is a brillant tactian. The group gets ahold of old model of either the one of those armors and the general decides to use it to overthrow the Russian government. When Iron man stops him, the general bares a grudge against him.

[Haunt]

Iron Man has some decent villains, but they just haven't kept up with his technological advances. For example, Crimson Dynamo, Blizaard, Blacklash, Spymaster, the Ghost, M.O.D.O.K., Mandarin, Ultimo, Titanium Man, Unicorn, Firebrand, Dr. Spectrum, the Freak, the Living Laser, and the Yellow Claw. I'd even like to see a couple of obscure opponents come back, like the Sunturion, Cyborg Sinister or the Masters of Silence. Sure, some of these characters are "dead", but that doesn't mean a lot in the Marvel Universe.

If some evil mastermind gave a bunch of them an increase in power, these old rogues could really challenge Iron Man again.

my vote is for Justine Hammer now that the latverian von bardas lady has been taken care of. or maybe Iron Man should adopt Dr.Doom as his new archenemy. i would imagine that he's overstayed his welcome in the FF title.

but anyways, new incarnations of his old villains are crawling out of the woodwork a lot lately.

Spymaster, Whiplash, Unicorn, Titanium Man, Ghost, Crimson Dynamo; all back and operating. Living Laser could be freed, as well.

[Haunt]

Outgrown his villains, I'm sorry but that sounds silly to me. Who does Iron Man fight if not his villains, generic terrorists and corporate slime balls, that will get boring after awhile, plus I think a lot of his villains have potenial.


potential against someone who isn't Tony Stark. i hate to say it but it might be time for Tony to become a coach, instead of a player. he needs to pull a Firestorm and be the brains behind another Iron Man (a pupil). if there was someone more inexperienced in the suit, all of these villains would seem formidable.



The Controller: Perhaps give him a new costume your set to go. He has elements of a good villain: a psychopathic personality, a good motive and cool gimmick. Just upgrade his costume and his technology (mind control nano bots instead of his old "slave" discs) and your good to go.

he's bonded to that costume.


The Ghost: Again there is nothing wrong with his villain he is merely underused. Again he his ideals are the opposite of Iron Man's he has fanatical hatred of corporations and is willing to sacerfice his own life to achieve his goals. In some ways he as an anti thesis to Iron Man's views. Just give him his old costume back your good to go.

i like his new costume and personality better. and Tony owned him the second time they fought in the recent Iron Man:Inevitable series. the problem with Tony now is that he can only be caught offguard once.



Living Laser: His powers make him more then a match for Iron Man. Plus he has a creepy stalker thing that has been around since the silver age: take a look at his first appearance and his interest in the Wasp. Another fine underused villain.

Parks is unable to adapt. that's why it was so easy to recapture him. Iron Man's armor is set up to absorb his energy. he needs to switch up foes. anyone else would be swiss cheese against the laser.

[Economist]

I like Living Laser and Crimson Dynamo. I think he should go up against Doom more often. Maybe borrow one of Thor's villians for awhile. Science vs Magic, human vs God conflicts.

[shades of eternity]

The thing is, Iron Man is the personification of what gamers called power creep.

As we learn more about the science of the world and how it works, characters like Reed Richards and Iron man will only get more powerful over time. Because what was considered super science becomes normal, even expected.

The thing is with characters like this, long term adversaries must be able to duplicate this affect over time (such as such great characters as Doctor Doom and Techno have been able to prove) or have abilities that are designed to keep pace and/or strike at a consistant achillies heel of the character.

Both characters I have suggested being repackaged (Circuit Breaker and Gideon) would be able to keep pace with Iron Man and be excellent additions to the rogue gallery.

Crimson Dynamo and/or Titanium man could be a great repackaging in a manner like Omega Red, a soldier out of time that could be a hoot. Especially if he makes some sort of "faustian deal" to keep pace with iron man. Maybe give a touch of "weird wars" to give it a creepy feel.

Not really a fan of the name Spymaster but the concept of a corporate spy extrodinaire is a good one and could be used throughout the series.

Living Laser concept is a riot, but he needs to keep pace with what lasers can do in the modern world. give him the ability to use the laser to generate missile locks with automated drones and it could be nasty. Also if he starts using military Ladar, he could be really frightning, especially for his own purposes. to say nothing of a very simple, yet nasty thing.

Give a bunch of associates your standard laser pointers, and have them pester tony during a pr presentation. Simply amp it up using his natural abilities and one serious strike against him.

To say nothing about good old fashion cd burners and what you can do with it.

here's a link to brainstorm further laser applications. Feel free to add others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser

The Controller is bonded to his suit and has the marvel equivelent of cerebro shells, he could make a great "behind the scenes" villian. In fact if he really takes it to tony after his inevitable falling out with shield. Act as a shadow to give tony a luck that makes spidey look incredibly lucky.

Make Ghost an ecoterrorist and give him a real axe to grind against tony (perhaps being right, heck, it worked for magneto. Give him firebrand as a minion and it could be fun.

Manderin is dead, and Temugin has made peace with tony, but make it a shaky peace that could come apart at any moment (especially with any of the above) and it may bring him back into full villan status.

The B-stringer Power armors should be used as pawns to put tony in places to make him miserable and set up "no win situations"

I like the idea of making AIM a dedicated Iron Man villian organization, especially if manipulated by either Gideon and/or Temugin.

and if you want somebody nasty, get a character who can alter liquids at a touch, and change a certain tony's IV into alcohol after being hospitalized. Opened to suggestions on that one.

Fin Fang Foom is a neat concept, but alien dragons have to be used sparringly. to be honest, he sounds like a great Hulk Villan.

Ultimo sounds like a great puppet for somebody with the skills to harness him. Pick a villian above who can, and away you go.

Justin Hammer is useful, and if played smartly could help bankroll any of the above.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

potential against someone who isn't Tony Stark. i hate to say it but it might be time for Tony to become a coach, instead of a player. he needs to pull a Firestorm and be the brains behind another Iron Man (a pupil). if there was someone more inexperienced in the suit, all of these villains would seem formidable.




he's bonded to that costume.



i like his new costume and personality better. and Tony owned him the second time they fought in the recent Iron Man:Inevitable series. the problem with Tony now is that he can only be caught offguard once.




Parks is unable to adapt. that's why it was so easy to recapture him. Iron Man's armor is set up to absorb his energy. he needs to switch up foes. anyone else would be swiss cheese against the laser.

The Controller may be bonded to his suit, but there is no reason why his exo skeleton can't be upgraded and be made to look more fearsome.

Also some mastermind villain can upgrade IM's old rogues to make more dangerous, ex: Giving Contoller mind control nano bots and giving Living Laser the ability to change the frequency of his enegry so he cannot trapped so easily, etc.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Iron Man has some decent villains, but they just haven't kept up with his technological advances. For example, Crimson Dynamo, Blizaard, Blacklash, Spymaster, the Ghost, M.O.D.O.K., Mandarin, Ultimo, Titanium Man, Unicorn, Firebrand, Dr. Spectrum, the Freak, the Living Laser, and the Yellow Claw. I'd even like to see a couple of obscure opponents come back, like the Sunturion, Cyborg Sinister or the Masters of Silence. Sure, some of these characters are "dead", but that doesn't mean a lot in the Marvel Universe.

If some evil mastermind gave a bunch of them an increase in power, these old rogues could really challenge Iron Man again. However, if the increased power was technological in nature, that could prove problematic, if Iron Man was able to reverse-engineer and upgrade his own tech after studying theirs. Maybe if Kang or another time traveller was involved, the tech could be so futuristic that Stark wouldn't be able to duplicate it. Alternatively, if a powerful sorcerorous type imbued Iron Man's villains with magical enhancements, the whole technology issue could be side-stepped. Thematically, that might not be the best way to go.

Another thing that made Iron Man's rogues gallery distinctive back in the day was the Cold War political dimension of some of them, like Crimson Dynamo, Mandarin, and Titanium Man. Although the war on terror has shifted the focus elsewhere, there is still great potential for tension between China and the United States. Since 25% of the people on Earth live in China, it stands to reason that 25% of the superhumans and geniuses would live there, too.

Linking villains to current events tends to date them after a while, which renders them useless. That is why all of Tony's Cold War enemies fell by the wayside in the 90s. they were no longer relevant. If China becomes a Democracy in 5 years, all of Tony's Chinese villains will be irrelevant, that doesn't sound like a good to build IM's rogues gallery.

[shades of eternity]

At the same time, I do like the idea of at least one chinese corporate villian, perhaps one that has a tendency to steal patents with inpunity (kinda how they do now), tancid governmental support and something to allow him to go toe to toe with IM and/or have minions that can.

In Erick Wuijick's Mystic China, there is a someone known as a Shang Ren, or Capitalist Entrepreneur and would be an awesome foil if based in Hong Kong, Taiwan or Shanghai.

[protege]

He could also be Shang Chi's father...

[Love Machine]

What Iron Man needs, is what about 60% of Marvel 616 heroes need...brand new villians who aren't losers from 1970 or have had their arses handed to them about 50 times in the last ten years...

[Babylon23]

MODOK is the greatest villain ever. I refuse to stand here while people insult him :D

Actually, I think MODOK could really step up if handled right. He has mind control powers, something that could bypass Tony's defences. He has complete access to AIM, who could emerge as a major threat under MODOK's control. An approach similar to the way John's is handling Hector Hammond in Green Lantern could give MODOK the edge.

Another possibility: Given Tony's technological superiority over just about everybody these days, I'd go in a completely different direction, and give him a truly powerful mystical villain ala Waid's recent depiction of Doom.

Let's face facts, Tony's too smart, and his technology too advanced, for a lot of the tech villains. He needs a threat that takes him completely out of his element. He's shown in the past that he's uncomfortable around magic, so that's exactly what I'd send him up against.

[Haunt]

MODOK is the greatest villain ever. I refuse to stand here while people insult him :D

yeah, he's definately ahead of the curve.

[Shellhead]

He could also be Shang Chi's father...

Officially, Fu Manchu is Shang-Chi's father. But the difficulties with the Sax Rohmer estate have prevented Marvel from using that name for years now, and they also can't re-print any of the excellent Shang-Chi comics from the 70's and early 80's.

So maybe it would be a good idea for Marvel to retcon Shang-Chi's heritage to one of their existing properties, like Mandarin or the Yellow Claw.

[protege]

Thank you- that's what I've been saying all along.

[shades of eternity]

er did my last post get deleted?

[XPac]

Officially, Fu Manchu is Shang-Chi's father. But the difficulties with the Sax Rohmer estate have prevented Marvel from using that name for years now, and they also can't re-print any of the excellent Shang-Chi comics from the 70's and early 80's.

So maybe it would be a good idea for Marvel to retcon Shang-Chi's heritage to one of their existing properties, like Mandarin or the Yellow Claw.

If they ever decide to want to use Shang-Chi in a more developed way, they may have to do some retcons. Though I'd almost hate to see those great Shang stories retconed like they never existed. There was definately some good good stuff going back them.

When Marvel started doing these essentails, there were 2 things I wanted marvel to do. Tomb of Dracula and Shang-Chi. I got one, but I'm starting to think the other ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

[Sandy Hausler]

After the civil war, Iron Man could very well get something he's never really had.

Memorable villians:

Think about it

you think spidey, you think doc oct, green goblin, scorpian and venom

FF has Doom and Galactus.

Xmen has magneto, sinister and apocalypse as well as setinels.

Cap has the Red skull.

Iron man's villans just don't seem as iconic and/or enthralling (even though the Manderain is a great character with a bit of tweaking could be a great villian for the entire marvel universe). Modok's a stump, and AIM, while fun doesn't have a proper face to fight.

So once he's back to being a hero vs bad guys, what would you give him for his rogues gallery to give it more oommph.

Also is there any theme that should be played when giving Iron Man new villians?

here's one off the top of my head

1. Circuit Breaker - although originally created for the transformer marvel comic, with her phobias/hatred of mechanized life forms, raw intelligence and sheer power level (to say nothing of the cheezecake factor), she could be a great foil if redone for tony.

Plus her em pulse could really give tony a miserable time now that he has nanites in him.

Circuit Breaker is owned entirely by Marvel, so no problem integrating her entirely.

Don't need any of the other characters though from that series, too cheezie

Well, they have to bring back Ironman's toughest foe --

THE MELTER!!!

True, he's dead, but since when has that stopped anyone.


Sandy Hausler

[Shellhead]

If they ever decide to want to use Shang-Chi in a more developed way, they may have to do some retcons. Though I'd almost hate to see those great Shang stories retconed like they never existed. There was definately some good good stuff going back them.


I agree that it would be a shame to see those great old MoKF stories retconned out of existence. Instead, I would prefer to see a revelation that Fu Manchu (or He Who Shall Not Be Named) wasn't the name of Shang's true father, but merely an alternate identity used by the Yellow Claw or a similar mastermind that Marvel can safely use.

Yellow Claw would be a great alternative as Shang's father, because that would then link Shang somewhat to SHIELD and indirectly to Iron Man. Also, due to the wonders of Marvel's coloring techniques in earlier days, Yellow Claw was suspiciously yellow, while Shang-Chi was strangely orange. Perhaps the odd pigmentation was linked to weird scientific experiments that Yellow Claw dabbled in.

[Joe Acro]

I would make a character who sold his soul to the Devil or Mephisto (whichever) in exchange for revenge on Tony (not knowing at the time that Tony is Iron Man). He acquires elemental powers, being able to generate and control the four classical elements. For years, he spends time building a company to rival that of Stark's. When finally he does, Tony has revealed himself as Iron Man (twice by now). So, Faust (the enemy's last name) would not only try to buy Stark's company, even if he has to do so slowly, but he'd also eventually battle Iron Man, to prove he's a better businessman and a better fighter. At one point, after failing to buy Stark Enterprises, Faust delivers an ultimatum. He has planted bombs around the city and has delivered nuerotoxins into the bloodstreams of Stark's workers. If Tony doesn't agree to sell him the company, he will set off both disasters. If he does, the crisis will be averted. I don't have an end, but I'll work on it.

Does anybody else think this would be a good story?

[brundlefly]

I would make a character who sold his soul to the Devil or Mephisto (whichever) in exchange for revenge on Tony (not knowing at the time that Tony is Iron Man). He acquires elemental powers, being able to generate and control the four classical elements. For years, he spends time building a company to rival that of Stark's. When finally he does, Tony has revealed himself as Iron Man (twice by now). So, Faust (the enemy's last name) would not only try to buy Stark's company, even if he has to do so slowly, but he'd also eventually battle Iron Man, to prove he's a better businessman and a better fighter. At one point, after failing to buy Stark Enterprises, Faust delivers an ultimatum. He has planted bombs around the city and has delivered nuerotoxins into the bloodstreams of Stark's workers. If Tony doesn't agree to sell him the company, he will set off both disasters. If he does, the crisis will be averted. I don't have an end, but I'll work on it.

Does anybody else think this would be a good story?

A villain with magical/sorcerous powers would be a good match for IM, given how much Tony hates magic (since he doesn't understand it). He would have a much harder time with a foe like that than an opponent who is tech-based like himself. With a magical opponent, he's out of his element. You could dig up a lesser known old corporate rival like one of the Marrs twins or Kearson Dewitt (the ones behind Armor Wars II) to use as "Faust" so that when we get the reveal of "Do you recognize me now, Stark?" it's a preexisting character that some readers might know or recognize, as opposed to one of those irritating created-out-of-thin-air "you destroyed my life!" characters like Eddie Brock.

[protege]

A villain with magical/sorcerous powers would be a good match for IM, given how much Tony hates magic (since he doesn't understand it). He would have a much harder time with a foe like that than an opponent who is tech-based like himself. With a magical opponent, he's out of his element. You could dig up a lesser known old corporate rival like one of the Marrs twins or Kearson Dewitt (the ones behind Armor Wars II) to use as "Faust" so that when we get the reveal of "Do you recognize me now, Stark?" it's a preexisting character that some readers might know or recognize, as opposed to one of those irritating created-out-of-thin-air "you destroyed my life!" characters like Eddie Brock.
Isn't Morgan la Fey more or less an Iron man villian?

[brundlefly]

Isn't Morgan la Fey more or less an Iron man villian?

Eh, she fits into the aforementioned "Avengers or FF villains who are also sometimes IM villains" category. You don't generally think of Ultron, la Fey, Doom, or Nefaria as "Iron Man villains," even though he's gone one-on-one with them in his solo title. Iron Man's usually only fought Morgan la Fey alongside the rest of the Avengers and she wasn't out to get him personally or anything. Other Avengers, like Cap and Thor, have their own distinguishable rogues galleries without having to "borrow" from the Avengers rogues gallery like Tony so often does. An Iron Man-centric villain with magical powers would help to both diversify and flesh out his personal rogues as opposed to borrowing Morgan la Fey or Mordred or whomever from the Avengers.

[Kirk G]

Well, they have to bring back Ironman's toughest foe --

THE MELTER!!!

True, he's dead, but since when has that stopped anyone.


Sandy Hausler
When and how did the melter die?
I recall his first (lame) appearance way back in the days of the golden avenger, but when he revamped his costume under Gene Colan in the late Tales of Suspense run (circa #88).
The only other time that I saw him was briefly in a briefly revamped Masters of Evil under the Crimson Cowl... that became Ultron when he revealed. Beyond that, I didn't recall any appearances.

Also, I recall the revamped Unicorn appearing in the early early Iron Man solo series, but not returning. (One shot villians were all to common back then... Disposable one shots... and until Midas showed up, and Tony Stark discovered that his role at Stark Enterprises had been taken by a rouge LMD, the series languished, IMHO...:eek:

[Joe Acro]

When and how did the melter die?

I don't know when, but I believe he was one of many killed by Scourge.

[shades of eternity]

I heard both retooled characters I suggested for tony, are in the dead book due to copyright infringment.

Is it true and if so, can anything be done about it and/or retool a character with a similar power set.

[brundlefly]

I heard both retooled characters I suggested for tony, are in the dead book due to copyright infringment.


Are you referring to that Externals/Highlander thing? I wish Gideon had just been left out of that group altogether. I don't think he was introduced as a member of the Externals when he debuted. Pity if his association with them is keeping him from getting resurrected.

[Haunt]

maybe they could bring back Arno Stark and make him one of the new baddies. btw, i think Temugin is a worthy foe. he could use magic to balance extremis out. AIM should step up their game as well. maybe they need new management; Ultron maybe.

[Captain Exaggeration]

Iron Man and Kang have always seemed to make great enemies in the Avengers. It would be cool to have a solo Iron Man and Kang story. (No other Avengers)

[Alan2099]

Tony uses machines. Throw him up against people who's talents lie elsewhere.

Revamp Plantman into a major threat.
Throw Arnim Zola at the guy.

[Sandy Hausler]

When and how did the melter die?
I recall his first (lame) appearance way back in the days of the golden avenger, but when he revamped his costume under Gene Colan in the late Tales of Suspense run (circa #88).
The only other time that I saw him was briefly in a briefly revamped Masters of Evil under the Crimson Cowl... that became Ultron when he revealed. Beyond that, I didn't recall any appearances.

Also, I recall the revamped Unicorn appearing in the early early Iron Man solo series, but not returning. (One shot villians were all to common back then... Disposable one shots... and until Midas showed up, and Tony Stark discovered that his role at Stark Enterprises had been taken by a rouge LMD, the series languished, IMHO...:eek:

I think the Melter was killed by Scourge. As were all lame villains.

Sandy Hausler

[Joe Acro]

...i think Temugin is a worthy foe.
Is it Temugin or Temujin? The Handbook and the Encyclopedia spell it differently.

[brundlefly]

I think the Melter was killed by Scourge. As were all lame villains.


Meh, I liked Basilisk and Wraith. But agreed that most of the other guys who bought it at the hands of the original Scourge were all pretty lame.

[Joe Acro]

Meh, I liked Basilisk and Wraith. But agreed that most of the other guys who bought it at the hands of the original Scourge were all pretty lame.
Why couldn't he have succeeded at killing the Shocker?:(

[mattbib]

I haven't been reading Iron Man, but I agree his villain pool needs some new blood. Stark is kind of a dinosaur. Some younger, tech savvy opponents, maybe in the business arena, could realistically pose a threat to Stark and his company.

[Atom_basher]

I would love to see Man thing become a stark villain. the industrialist vs the elemental

[Haunt]

Is it Temugin or Temujin? The Handbook and the Encyclopedia spell it differently.


i've never seen it spelled any other way (than Temugin).

[Shellhead]

I would love to see Man thing become a stark villain. the industrialist vs the elemental

Iron Man and Man-Thing teamed up against Molecule Man in Iron Man Annual #3:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/42891354838.3.gif

[shades of eternity]

now that it's pretty much the end of the civil war, was this conjure we did during it still apply?

[Shellhead]

Iron Man has recently acquired two new rogues galleries:

1. The traditional SHIELD rogues gallery, especially Hydra. Although, come to think of it, there was some overlap between Iron Man villains and SHIELD villains back in the silver age, including A.I.M., Spymaster, Zodiac, and Yellow Claw.

2. The anti-registration heroes, including Cap (before he died), Falcon, Hercules, and many others. And just wait until Thor and Hulk return!

[Mariah]

I'd love to see Joe Casey on this book. His IM mini really did wonders for some of his old rogues.

[oneasian]

villains should capitalize on Iron Man's bond with Extremis: Ultron and Machine Smith (is that his right name?)

[protege]

whiplash, the freak, the Controller, Spymaster, Midas, Unicorn, Titanium man,- Some of them i'd like to see again.

update; Actually, I'd like to see the Whiplash twins, last seen in Thunderbolts, in SOMEONE"s Rogues' gallery.

[mgs]

Iron Man and Man-Thing teamed up against Molecule Man in Iron Man Annual #3:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/42891354838.3.gif

that's a tough fight, so did they win? :)

[Alan2099]

I still say Arnim Zola would be a good foe for him. There's a guy that "upgrades" organics like Tony does machinery, and it has a great over the top creepyness to it.

With the Extremis stuff and Tony now being part machine or whatever, let's give him a foe that can control or reprogram any kind of machine. Sort of like an opposite end to the Controller.

It's also said that any technology suficiently advanced enough becomes indestiquishable from magic. Let's turn that on it's head a little bit. Let's have Tony fight a guy that uses magic disguised as technology. While Ironman is trying to figure out how his lasers and armor work, it's really just that they're ceated by spells and stuff.

[shades of eternity]

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/zola/zola.gif

yesh, his background is good, but if anybody needed a redesign, it's him.

[Alan2099]

The design is close to perfect. It's classic over the top weird Kirby. Sure you could stand to tweak it in a place or two, but if you're trying to make it look cool, you're missing the point.

[Karl H]

I'm sure the Mandarin's new modus operandi as per IM 15 will go some way... to revitalising him as a classic villain and arch-nemisis

[Mariah]

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/zola/zola.gif
http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/modok/modok.gif

OMG, I love Zooollllaaaa! He's my second favorite villian, right after M.O.D.O.K.A.K.O.K.

[MichaelChen]

Iron Man's villains definately need an upgrade. Other than Mandarin, Fin Fang Foom, and maaybe Ultimo, it's hard to imagine any of them actually giving him trouble.

[Will.S]

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/zola/zola.gif

yesh, his background is good, but if anybody needed a redesign, it's him.
He's already getting an update to his look in Captain America

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Zola.PNG/578px-Zola.PNG

Looks as cool as he ever did and then some. Mandarin is also back as of the latest Iron Man issue.

[Frank]

I think with Civil War it would be a great opportunity to raise the level of threat in the Iron Man book to another level. It shouldn't be just revamp the old villains. But since IM is so much part of the establishement, controling SHIELD and so forth, Mandarin could be to IM what Bin Laden is to America.

[Willminus2]

I don't know about you but the "semi-villain" Iron Man has plenty of new rogues that includes:

Spiderman
Wolverine
Luke Cage
Spiderwoman
Dr. Strange
Iron Fist
Ronin
The Hulk
and probably a few more including
Hercules
The Punisher
Winter Soldier
Falcon
and most likely when he comes back after hearing of the cloning
a very pissed off Thor

[Alan2099]

He's already getting an update to his look in Captain America

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Zola.PNG/578px-Zola.PNG

Looks as cool as he ever did and then some.
I gotta disagree. It's got the creepyness, but it lacks the weird Kirby charm.