Jeph Loeb vs. Origins???

[Verminous]

Sorry if this subject has already been covered, but having just read the interview with Jeph Loeb on CBR, I havew to know is the position of the Wolverine Origins series now completely obsolete? In his interview Loeb talks about his upcoming arc on Wolverine (main title) that is going to reveal the real history between Wolverine and Sabretooth! Now I may be wrong but wasn't this the whole point of the Wolverine:Origins title to begin with? In Joe Q's haste to pander to every one of Loeb's to do list I think he has publicly and spectacularly shot himself in the foot.


I have no problem with Loeb doing this story and personally think IO will enjoy it and I am also not against Marvel making as much money as they can, they are after all a business. However this move shows a distinct lack of respect to the fans and makes Wolverine a logistical nightmare.

I recall not too long ago there was an outcry because Wolverine joined the New Avengers, because he was at that time on four teams in total and there was a promise from Joe Q to limit his exposure. This was done by removing him from two X-men titles, now that he is on two teams the situation should be better but the addition of a second ongoing has made the situation even worse than before. How do you explain Wolverine traveling to a differnt part of the world in one title tracking a supervillain across the US in another title. Then having his mind f**ked in Astonishing. Astonishing I dont mind so much because I see the story as apart from the Marvel Universe until the completion of the story because of its erratic publishing schedule.
Oh and before anyone says but Spidey has three titles, how often does Spider-Man leave New York? Not very often compared to the globe trotting Logan.

Thanks for the rant just had to get that off my chest

[Keith_Martineau]

One issue of Wolverine dealing with him vs. Sabretooth does not make Origins obsolete or anything like that.

I get the feeling you just wanted to take a couple swipes at Joe Q.

[Verminous]

What evidence do you have that my post wasn't fair and was indeed just a swipe at Joe Q. You are completely wrong my friend I love what Joe Q has done at Marvel but with this issue I think he is completely wrong and Wolverin:Origins should not be a seperate title. Oh by the way Loeb's story is six issues not one and he is planning a sequel which may or may not delve into his past.

[xmanson]

It IS weird. You have a fucking ongoing title made only to deal with the messy past shit, then do it in the other onging? Why?

[brundlefly]

Eh, I'll give Loeb's WOLVERINE a chance before I make any snap judgements. Sometimes he's really, really good (BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN, DARK VICTORY, SPIDER-MAN: BLUE) but he can also be infuriatingly bad (his first and last arcs on SUPERMAN/BATMAN). I agree that having two different "Wolverine's Origin" titles be published at the same time and then contradict each other would be inexcusably stupid, but we haven't seen that actually happen yet, so there's no need to fly off the handle just because of one line from an interview.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of more "everything you thought you knew about Logan and Creed is WRONG!" overhype or retconning, but the art looks great and it seems from the interview that the Logan/Creed thing is the only history-dredging Loeb's planning on (as opposed to ORIGINS, in which that's the whole theme), so I'll take this all with a grain of salt and check it out before I start complaining or nit-picking.

[Joe Acro]

I have no problem with Loeb doing this story and personally think IO will enjoy it and I am also not against Marvel making as much money as they can, they are after all a business.
But why don't you have a problem with it? I'm all for them making money, but having a character appear in multiple mags with little to no explanation for how or why that character can be in all those places really bugs me. Is sticking popular characters in a title the only way to sell mags these days?

[Verminous]

Eh, I'll give Loeb's WOLVERINE a chance before I make any snap judgements. Sometimes he's really, really good (BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN, DARK VICTORY, SPIDER-MAN: BLUE) but he can also be infuriatingly bad (his first and last arcs on SUPERMAN/BATMAN). I agree that having two different "Wolverine's Origin" titles be published at the same time and then contradict each other would be inexcusably stupid, but we haven't seen that actually happen yet, so there's no need to fly off the handle just because of one line from an interview.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of more "everything you thought you knew about Logan and Creed is WRONG!" overhype or retconning, but the art looks great and it seems from the interview that the Logan/Creed thing is the only history-dredging Loeb's planning on (as opposed to ORIGINS, in which that's the whole theme), so I'll take this all with a grain of salt and check it out before I start complaining or nit-picking.



As I've stated I think this could be a great story my concern is that we have an Origins ongoing and then we have the regular title also delving into the past , it makes absalutely no sense to have a series dedicated to Logan's past when your just gonna do that in the regular title as well. It makes Origins obsolete which is what I said in my original post!

[TinMan]

I don't have one iota of a problem w/ it. Personally I feel that comics should be taken w/ a grain of salt and appreciated for the stories they tell rather than worrying about the continuity of said stories. I can accept that things happened at different times without a problem. Besides, its not like you have to read it if you don't want to.

So I truly look forward to this story.

[Verminous]

But why don't you have a problem with it? I'm all for them making money, but having a character appear in multiple mags with little to no explanation for how or why that character can be in all those places really bugs me. Is sticking popular characters in a title the only way to sell mags these days?


Marvel has to make money its the way of the world, however this move has just shown the Origins book for what it is un-needed and a disrespectful cash cow.

[TinMan]

As I've stated I think this could be a great story my concern is that we have an Origins ongoing and then we have the regular title also delving into the past , it makes absalutely no sense to have a series dedicated to Logan's past when your just gonna do that in the regular title as well. It makes Origins obsolete which is what I said in my original post!

I don't think it makes it obsolete at all, Daniel Way is exploring Wolverine's past in Origins, but this is a story that Loeb pitched. Sure they could have kicked Way off his book so Loeb could tell his story, but that wouldn't be cool.

[Verminous]

It IS weird. You have a fucking ongoing title made only to deal with the messy past shit, then do it in the other onging? Why?


Thankyou I think your the only person who has read the post and actually picked up on the point I was trying to make.;)

[TinMan]

Thankyou I think your the only person who has read the post and actually picked up on the point I was trying to make.;)

Not quite, I get your point but I just don't agree w/ it. :p

[Verminous]

I don't think it makes it obsolete at all, Daniel Way is exploring Wolverine's past in Origins, but this is a story that Loeb pitched. Sure they could have kicked Way off his book so Loeb could tell his story, but that wouldn't be cool.


But its ok to kick Gugganheim off;)

I'm sure this is a story that could have been told in Origins down the line when Way has done a couple of arcs. Then again maybe they should have just had one Wolverine ongoing and told their stories there. Joe Q is always talking about his genies which need to be put back in the bottle in order to provide more story material (such as Peter and MJ) and yet when he has a character that can provide story material for some time to come he wants to cram it into two titles now rather than wait and have some really strong stories to be told by talented creators down the line

[Verminous]

Not quite, I get your point but I just don't agree w/ it. :p


didnt say you agreed with it:rolleyes:and if you didn't agree with it why does your post end with a question?

[TinMan]

But its ok to kick Gugganheim off;)

I'm sure this is a story that could have been told in Origins down the line when Way has done a couple of arcs. Then again maybe they should have just had one Wolverine ongoing and told their stories there. Joe Q is always talking about his genies which need to be put back in the bottle in order to provide more story material (such as Peter and MJ) and yet when he has a character that can provide story material for some time to come he wants to cram it into two titles now rather than wait and have some really strong stories to be told by talented creators down the line

True, but one of his major responsabilities as EIC is to make the company money. If he feels that someone has a hot idea that can sell books, he's gonna do it. I'm sure there are other factor's at hand too, such as scheduling of talent, if you have the people you want to do the story, then do it before they're on some other project or jump ship. I also imagine that he wanted Loeb to tell his story rather than shooting another writer down if they had a different idea for Wolverine and Sabretooth's ties.

[TinMan]

didnt say you agreed with it:rolleyes:and if you didn't agree with it why does your post end with a question?

My post didn't end with a question. :confused:

[Forefinger]

I say wait on Loeb's version to come out, and then bitch about it if it directly counteracts something that Way has done in his book.

I'll admit to being pissed at Loeb for retelling Daredevil's origin in Daredevil: Yellow, when Frank Miller had done the best origin story ever for DD in Man Without Fear.

I don't put it past Loeb to mess something up, but I'll wait until I see the story before rushing to judgement.

[Joe Acro]

Marvel has to make money its the way of the world, however this move has just shown the Origins book for what it is un-needed and a disrespectful cash cow.
I think you missed the whole point of my post...

[brundlefly]

I don't put it past Loeb to mess something up, but I'll wait until I see the story before rushing to judgement.

A more succinct version of my earlier ramblings. :D

[xmanson]

The problem for me is not contradicting anything between books, but the theme of the stories themselves - a book was created to deal with origins and past stuff, so why the hell also do it in the other ongoing?

[Verminous]

My post didn't end with a question. :confused:


mix up with quotes tinman please ignore:D :D

[Verminous]

The problem for me is not contradicting anything between books, but the theme of the stories themselves - a book was created to deal with origins and past stuff, so why the hell also do it in the other ongoing?


exactly........hallelujah!!!!!

I am not saying the story will contradict Way or will in itself be a bad story by Loeb..........ah forget it just read the mans post.:D

[Verminous]

I think you missed the whole point of my post...

And I think you missed the main point of my original post:p

[Sparda]

Personally I prefer wolverine on just one X-title while he's in his own ongoing series. It's ok to lend him to new avengers in certain arc from time to time as long as the reference is mentioned in the X-title that he's busy doing Avenger stuff. The first 5 issues of origins is set before Civil war 1. I guess the second arc as well. I'd defienetly check out this arc since it's Loeb doing it. I enjoyed Batman:Hush so I'll give this a shot.

[Joe Acro]

And I think you missed the main point of my original post:p
After looking back over it, I guess we seem to agree?

[riotgear]

It IS weird. You have a fucking ongoing title made only to deal with the messy past shit, then do it in the other onging? Why?

Wolverine: Origins does seem mis-titled. They should've called it Wolverine: Mindf*#!ed.

[JmH Reborn]

I agree with you 100%, I actually think this story being told by Loeb and not Way after he's repeatedly said he plans on revealing the history very very soon, I think this move by Marvel seems very telling of the confidence they have in Way, which I can completely understand, since it's one of Marvel's worst title right now :(

I asked Way on his website www.badpressonline.com (i'm the vocal one there) and he said that Loeb and him are teaming up on this project, that Loeb is doing one part and that he will address another part. I don't know what to take from it, I think he knows that his leash might be tightening, I don't know.

I too don't understand why the origin would be sought in his main title since of course we were spoon fed that Way is dealing with everything, actually I'm quite happy that Bianchi is doing it and Loeb is doing it over Way, any day of the week.

To me however, it's just very telling how much faith Marvel has in Way to deliver

And yes, Origins is seriously mis-leading, it should have been Wolverine: Declassified

[Joe Acro]

Is Origins in current continuity or is a series of events taking place within Wolvie's past? If it's the first one, how?

[Sentinel K]

Is Origins in current continuity or is a series of events taking place within Wolvie's past? If it's the first one, how?

Yeah It's in continuity.

Wolverine #36-40 and #41, I think (it's a one-shot) and Wolverine: Origins #1-5 take place between HoM and Civil War.


Somehow.