View Full Version : Imagine the war if say the FF or Avengers were the ones at stamford not the NW
Berkey
08-30-2006, 09:36 PM
Just like it says what if the FF saw nitro, told him to give up but he ran into the street and was cornered and then blew the truck up what would that be like, The FF are known heros loved by the public the New Warriors were just some kids you think the public would act the same way?
Darkstorm5000
08-30-2006, 10:14 PM
Just like it says what if the FF saw nitro, told him to give up but he ran into the street and was cornered and then blew the truck up what would that be like, The FF are known heros loved by the public the New Warriors were just some kids you think the public would act the same way?
I think if it'd been the FF4 involved, that the whole situation would've probably gone down differently. More than likely, they would've done a better assessment of civilian casualties in the area and reacted accordingly.
Which, is why I originally thought the Reg. Act was supposed to be passed, to properly train just those super-beings who actually wanted to be super-heroes. Not, as an excuse to round them all up wholesale with an involuntary conscription.
foxfire
08-30-2006, 10:16 PM
Just like it says what if the FF saw nitro, told him to give up but he ran into the street and was cornered and then blew the truck up what would that be like, The FF are known heros loved by the public the New Warriors were just some kids you think the public would act the same way?
That's a very good question. Things definitley would have turned out differently... proponents of the Registration Act have based some of their claims on the fact that 1. the NW are in their minds inexperienced kids and 2. They broadcast the fight on tv looking for ratings. But I'm sure the FF and Avengers have had similar accidental civilian casualties before... it would be highly implausible for them not to. Now if the X-Men were the team at Stanford... the sh!t would still have hit the fan :(
That's a very good question. Things definitley would have turned out differently... proponents of the Registration Act have based some of their claims on the fact that 1. the NW are in their minds inexperienced kids and 2. They broadcast the fight on tv looking for ratings. But I'm sure the FF and Avengers have had similar accidental civilian casualties before... it would be highly implausible for them not to. Now if the X-Men were the team at Stanford... the sh!t would still have hit the fan :(
Well, the biggest problem with the NW is that it was documented on a TV show.
If it wasn't, no one but the Warriors (and Nitro) would have a clue what happened. There's no way anyone could really point fingers because there's no way anyone really knows whether they jumped the gun or whether they had to act.
Most heroes don't have TV shows following them so there's no way to really criticize what they do. In one of the earlier Ms. Marvel storylines, there was a lot of colateral damage caused. Caron didn't exactly save the day. No one can say she did or didn't screw up (and I don't believe she did) so they just blame villian. As they should. If NW didn't have TV cameras on them, the same thing would probably happen.
Berkey
08-30-2006, 11:14 PM
I think if it'd been the FF4 involved, that the whole situation would've probably gone down differently. More than likely, they would've done a better assessment of civilian casualties in the area and reacted accordingly.
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That was what I originally thought but lets say the FF were supposed to round up nitro and his gang and were spotted while spying on them then nitro took off and headed towards the civilian population so reed had to step in and prevent him from doing so in result he still blows the truck up and the kids all die. I wonder what would happen if say the FF did make a carless mistake I mean everyone messes up
Darkstorm5000
08-30-2006, 11:31 PM
That was what I originally thought but lets say the FF were supposed to round up nitro and his gang and were spotted while spying on them then nitro took off and headed towards the civilian population so reed had to step in and prevent him from doing so in result he still blows the truck up and the kids all die. I wonder what would happen if say the FF did make a carless mistake I mean everyone messes up
I think they would've got run through the media-grinder over it. But, probably not like the treatment that the NW wound up getting, mainly because of the FF4's more established reputation. Still, it would've been interesting to see if the same justifications for a SHRA could've been used in their situation?
Berkey
08-31-2006, 12:17 AM
I think they would've got run through the media-grinder over it. But, probably not like the treatment that the NW wound up getting, mainly because of the FF4's more established reputation. Still, it would've been interesting to see if the same justifications for a SHRA could've been used in their situation?
yup just what I was thinking maybe a little leeway b/c of their history but the act in my mind would still go into action, but to what degree ya know
Jmacq1
08-31-2006, 06:01 AM
It wouldn't have made a difference, because the writers wouldn't let it.
If the US' most popular and trusted superhero (in universe) can become a "villain" overnight (Captain America), the FF wouldn't fare any better.
Public Opinion is a fickle thing. The FF's reputation didn't even slow down that mob from beating the crap out of Johnny Storm, and he wasn't even -at- Stamford.
Blackcat
08-31-2006, 06:16 AM
I don't think it would have made any difference. A heroteam was there and lots of humans died, which led to the SHRA. Doesn't matter if it were the FF, the Avengers or what other team it was.
It was about to come anyway.
Weirdopky
08-31-2006, 07:33 AM
I don't think it would have made any difference. A heroteam was there and lots of humans died, which led to the SHRA. Doesn't matter if it were the FF, the Avengers or what other team it was.
It was about to come anyway.
actually, Blackcat, I'd have to disagree. The New Warriors were teenagers, who decided for a reality tv show that they wanted to take on a villian who they had no pre-emptive plan to take out. Really didn't work out too well. You can't even use the FF or Avengers to replace them and do a "What iif...?" because they're smart enough not to try to attack some villian for no reason but a tv show.
Markavian
08-31-2006, 07:43 AM
actually, Blackcat, I'd have to disagree. The New Warriors were teenagers, who decided for a reality tv show that they wanted to take on a villian who they had no pre-emptive plan to take out. Really didn't work out too well. You can't even use the FF or Avengers to replace them and do a "What iif...?" because they're smart enough not to try to attack some villian for no reason but a tv show.
The Invisible Girl alone could have contained Nitro with her Force feild..The Thing Torch and Mr Fantastic would have taken the 4 Criminals down lickity split..And With Reed as their Leader as well as Years or Experiance they wouldnt have started Combat near a bunch of Civilans anyway unless there was no Choice. Even Johnny Storm the Most Hot Headed member wouldnt have been reckless like the Warriors were . While I like the New Warriors and their adventures they allowed the alure of being part of the Reality TV craze to blind them to common sense and personal resonsibility:(
Jmacq1
08-31-2006, 07:48 AM
The Invisible Girl alone could have contained Nitro with her Force feild..The Thing Torch and Mr Fantastic would have taken the 4 Criminals down lickity split..And With Reed as their Leader as well as Years or Experiance they wouldnt have started Combat near a bunch of Civilans anyway unless there was no Choice. Even Johnny Storm the Most Hot Headed member wouldnt have been reckless like the Warriors were . While I like the New Warriors and their adventures they allowed the alure of being part of the Reality TV craze to blind them to common sense and personal resonsibility:(
You mean Mark Millar and Joe Quesada/Tom Brevoort/Marvel's editorial staff decided to make them act wildly out of character, ignored the continuity of their entire original series and turned them into sacrificial lambs, right?
It could have been anyone, it was just that the New Warriors were -just- well known enough to be meaningful and get a rise out of some fans, yet expendable enough that their loss wouldn't impact the overall scheme of the Marvel Universe in any significant way.
Kinda like all those second/third/twelfth-string mutants they killed off or depowered in "Decimation".
Markavian
09-02-2006, 02:44 AM
You mean Mark Millar and Joe Quesada/Tom Brevoort/Marvel's editorial staff decided to make them act wildly out of character, ignored the continuity of their entire original series and turned them into sacrificial lambs, right?
It could have been anyone, it was just that the New Warriors were -just- well known enough to be meaningful and get a rise out of some fans, yet expendable enough that their loss wouldn't impact the overall scheme of the Marvel Universe in any significant way.
Kinda like all those second/third/twelfth-string mutants they killed off or depowered in "Decimation".
I sometimes Think Marvel Today Racks up a Body count just to pump up sales..In many comics mass death is used to attract Readers and I think that blows..But Stick to the Story you know? Dont retrocon it 5 Issues later " Oh they were all clones/Andriods!" It cheapens Death and human Suffering..Also looks like Marvel is about to repower Mutants via Pietro which is another cheap (IMO) plot device.I Mean Decimation in the end will have changed zip if all the Mutants repower up .The New Warriors Acted about as bad as they did when they started. And Night Thrasher wasnt acting in the same serious vien we all came to expect from him at all. The other 2 who acted all Hollywood : Sppedball and Namorita are a bit more understandible to a degree.But the ignore all common sense in barreling ahead like they did as well as their exeriance as New Warriors.Microbe showed more sense than those two ...And even Night thrasher went all hollywod wanting the bondage queen comments edited out of the tape.While I have Mixed feelings about their deaths I pray Marvel doesnt bring them back.It would cheapen and strecth suspenson of belief just a wee bit too far. :)
scottv
09-02-2006, 02:51 AM
I think that even if it had been the anyone else but it was on tv the reaction would have been similar. People need a picture that they can see in order to understand better. If it had gone down the same way only not on tv then the reaction would have been very different because like someone else said no one would really know what happened except for Nitro and Speedball.
Magneto Rocks
09-02-2006, 03:04 AM
It wouldn't have happened. It just wouldn't have. Firstly, they wouldn't have been amateurish enough to be spotted. Secondly, when they made their attack, Sue would have projected a forcefield over the ENTIRE area since Nitro was there and it's just common sense in a suburban area. Then hte others would have moved in- Johnny and Ben would have survived Nitro's explosion normally and Reed could have stayed outside.
Unlike the New Warriors, the FF are trained, smart super-heroes. There is absoloutely no way they would have made the amateur mistakes the NW did. EVEN if somehow Nitro's explosion wasn't contained by Sue's forcefield, Reed would have turned his body into huge net-thingie to try and contain as much of it as possible.
The idea that the explosion would have happened all the same is laughable.
Nomad
09-02-2006, 03:10 AM
I smell a great "what if...?"
-S-Man-
09-02-2006, 04:13 AM
Having just read Wolverine #45... I don't think anyone could have known that Nitro hade a power boost and a big one at theat. Does the strength of Sue's shield vary or is it standard and could it have contained such a blast. I think it would have taken both Sue and Rachel (Summers) to contain such a blast.
Jeff-E
09-02-2006, 05:44 AM
Having just read Wolverine #45... I don't think anyone could have known that Nitro hade a power boost and a big one at theat. Does the strength of Sue's shield vary or is it standard and could it have contained such a blast. I think it would have taken both Sue and Rachel (Summers) to contain such a blast.
Sue's pretty tough, she once contained/redirected a Gamma Bomb explosion, I personally think she could have contained Nitro. The again he was all hyped up on goofballs hmmmm...................What if?
phantom1592
09-02-2006, 06:55 AM
The Invisible Girl alone could have contained Nitro with her Force feild..The Thing Torch and Mr Fantastic would have taken the 4 Criminals down lickity split..And With Reed as their Leader as well as Years or Experiance they wouldnt have started Combat near a bunch of Civilans anyway unless there was no Choice. Even Johnny Storm the Most Hot Headed member wouldnt have been reckless like the Warriors were . While I like the New Warriors and their adventures they allowed the alure of being part of the Reality TV craze to blind them to common sense and personal resonsibility:(
I seem to remember Johnny going Nova and burning down a college once. that was pretty reckless.
The Warriors DID take down the other three lickety split. Sue COULD have put a forcefield around Nitro, but I don't think it would been an automatic response. Otherwise she doesn't even need the rest of the FF. She can just Forcefield every enemy she runs into and walk them to the Vault :)
Odds are it would have Thing tackling Nitro, and the same thing would have happened. EXCEPT Sue would have see that they survived. When an explosion goes off it IS second nature to protect her family.
Lets say there was a TV following FF4 for a full day and that day actully took them to stmaford where the noticed Nitro and the gang. So you would have the whole same senario then there would be diffrences. first of you would see that the FF4 would try to make a plan. When they moved in they would still try to follow a plan and they would not be talking to the camera in the fight. Basicly they would act proffesinal. ANd that would have changed the outcome of everything. Even if Nitro had managed to blow up the town. The SHRA would most liky still come in play but be more directed towards the crimminals.
Magneto Rocks
09-02-2006, 08:24 AM
If Nitro had been there, Sue would have put a big forcefield around the whole area- simple as that, she's that smart and the FF are that good.
Kid Kamikaze10
09-02-2006, 08:52 AM
If the FF were the ones in Stamford, they would have underestimated Nitro's power unless (if they are lucky) Reed scans each villain, and finds out that Nitro's been amped up. Then, the necessary procedures would have been made.
If not, then unless Sue brings up a shield almost immediately, they would all be dead, even Johnny, who may take the heat, but die from the sonic boom (the wave from the blast), or the radiation like Captain Marvel.
If it were the Avengers........ They would of been destroyed, simple as that. Nitro was a trap, period. Most heroes (and supposely SHIELD) know that his explosions aren't that big, though the radiation can kill. He was amped up by Damage Control, and nobody would have known that coming in (besides maybe Vision who's a Young Avenger). A trained hero would have died, and experienced hero (like the New Warriors except Microbe) would have died, and a untrained hero would have died.
And those kids. Unless Reed scans the targets before hand (probably not), or if Vision is in the area, and he scans the target (can he even do that?), they are DEAD.
CyberCoyote
09-02-2006, 08:52 AM
You mean Mark Millar and Joe Quesada/Tom Brevoort/Marvel's editorial staff decided to make them act wildly out of character, ignored the continuity of their entire original series and turned them into sacrificial lambs, right?
Exactly. They wanted the Civil War story, they'd smash every square peg into round holes that were in the way.
Kid Kamikaze10
09-02-2006, 08:54 AM
One thing is for certain, though. It was the New Warriors' arrogant persona that cause a bit of these problems. If they were serious, and died, I think this whole situation would have been different.
phantom1592
09-02-2006, 09:18 AM
If Nitro had been there, Sue would have put a big forcefield around the whole area- simple as that, she's that smart and the FF are that good.
No she wouldn't have. She never has before. She's fought Doom, Terrax, Galactus. Her first move is NOT force fielding the public. If she wasted her energy doing THAT, then she would spend the whole fight trying to maintain Nuke worthy Fields while everyone else is fighting around her.
That's not the way she operates.
Unless she got some warning first, she would be right in there with the other three attacking the villians and backing up her team.
bulbasteve
09-02-2006, 12:04 PM
No she wouldn't have. She never has before. She's fought Doom, Terrax, Galactus. Her first move is NOT force fielding the public. If she wasted her energy doing THAT, then she would spend the whole fight trying to maintain Nuke worthy Fields while everyone else is fighting around her.
That's not the way she operates.
Unless she got some warning first, she would be right in there with the other three attacking the villians and backing up her team.
Remember this was in residential Stamford. Even at his normal power his blast would have easily killed the people in the adjacent houses, so of course Sue would put a force field around to stop that blast or to stop him from taking a hostage.
phantom1592
09-02-2006, 12:24 PM
Remember this was in residential Stamford. Even at his normal power his blast would have easily killed the people in the adjacent houses, so of course Sue would put a force field around to stop that blast or to stop him from taking a hostage.
Why does everyone make such a big deal about "Residental" Stamford. Aren't there more people Downtown Manhatten?! NYC is one of the most crowded busiest places on earth, Didn't the World Trade Center falling kill over 2,000 more than Stamfords death total of 600? That was just one Building (ok Two) But Nitro there would have done the same thing.
Residential meanst there are LESS people around. 4-5 per house, 6-10 houses per block.
If these Force field tactics aren't standard practice in Times Square, then they wouldn't be in the suburbs.
Magneto Rocks
09-02-2006, 12:26 PM
No she wouldn't have. She never has before. She's fought Doom, Terrax, Galactus. Her first move is NOT force fielding the public. If she wasted her energy doing THAT, then she would spend the whole fight trying to maintain Nuke worthy Fields while everyone else is fighting around her.
As said above, she hasn't fought people who can explode at a whim and in the middle of a residential district, which is VERY different circumstances. Of course she would put up a field.
Sabrinaset
09-02-2006, 12:26 PM
Kid Kamakaze ... I'm reading the first appearance of Nitro (Captain Marvel #34) right now, and all he does is explode, no radiation. If you're thinking that radiation somehow is a result of his power, and that that same radiation killed Captain Marvel, it's not true. In CM 34, he was trying to get a poison called "Compound 13" for his masters in the Lunatic Legion, and sorta the Watcher, but that's a whole different story ... and when the container for Compound 13 leaked during the battle, that was what ultimately killed Mar-Vell, as revealed in "The Death of Captain Marvel"
Ult. Fireboy
09-02-2006, 02:00 PM
I think that the Avengers or the FF would be smarter than to have a super powered fight by a school. They would also study their:cool: powers better.
I do agree the Sue would not placed a foircefield around the whole house, but she would do it to Nitro the momant he starte to flee. She has on occosion used that trick to stopp people from escaping. The result might have been a smaller explotion as a result of first having to break down her forcefield.
The FF is simply to much of an overkill, If the thing had gone after Nitro then he would have knocked him out before he exploded ( he is to strong)
If it had been avangers on the other hand. Well it depends who went after him. Spiderman would got a warning and Ko'ed him. His spidersense would left him no choice. Cap would have blown up simply becouse of no way of knowing of the powerup, IR might have ko'ed him before he exploded.
Basicly comes down to if they could Ko'ed him before he explode and there is a few who can do that and who would not play around with him like Namorita did. If cap had a warning then he would have ko'ed him but then again the problem is not knowing the guy had a powerup.
phantom1592
09-02-2006, 02:39 PM
I do agree the Sue would not placed a foircefield around the whole house, but she would do it to Nitro the momant he starte to flee. She has on occosion used that trick to stopp people from escaping. The result might have been a smaller explotion as a result of first having to break down her forcefield.
The FF is simply to much of an overkill, If the thing had gone after Nitro then he would have knocked him out before he exploded ( he is to strong)
If it had been avangers on the other hand. Well it depends who went after him. Spiderman would got a warning and Ko'ed him. His spidersense would left him no choice. Cap would have blown up simply becouse of no way of knowing of the powerup, IR might have ko'ed him before he exploded.
Basicly comes down to if they could Ko'ed him before he explode and there is a few who can do that and who would not play around with him like Namorita did. If cap had a warning then he would have ko'ed him but then again the problem is not knowing the guy had a powerup.
Agreed. She would put HIM in the field. Maybe cut of his air and knock him out.That's her style.
I have to re-read it, but I don't really remember Namorita playing around with him. Didn't she just punch him, and then shoulder check him into the bus or something.
Speedball was screwing around and doing re-takes, but no more games than he ever did. The rest of the warriors dropped their targets FAST. Was there something about Nitros new powers that would let him take punches from Nita like that. Enhanced endurance, Healing factor or something? She was never the type to "pull" her punches, so a normal guy would gone down right away.
Kid Kamikaze10
09-02-2006, 02:56 PM
Kid Kamakaze ... I'm reading the first appearance of Nitro (Captain Marvel #34) right now, and all he does is explode, no radiation. If you're thinking that radiation somehow is a result of his power, and that that same radiation killed Captain Marvel, it's not true. In CM 34, he was trying to get a poison called "Compound 13" for his masters in the Lunatic Legion, and sorta the Watcher, but that's a whole different story ... and when the container for Compound 13 leaked during the battle, that was what ultimately killed Mar-Vell, as revealed in "The Death of Captain Marvel"
Thanks for correcting me. :D
I should re-read that story.
ivesaidway2much
09-02-2006, 03:04 PM
As said above, she hasn't fought people who can explode at a whim and in the middle of a residential district, which is VERY different circumstances. Of course she would put up a field.
There's no real reason to believe that Sue would have assumed that Nitro was the most dangerous guy out of the four in Stamford. Speedfreek is a crazed serial killer with super-speed whose killed lots of people including the original owner of the Speedfreek suit, and he fought the Hulk to a virtual standstill. Cobalt man is a pretty intelligent guy(built a suit of armor with near the power of Iron man) he went toe to toe with the original X-men team, and his suit turns into a radioactive Cobalt-60 bomb if he uses it for too long. Coldheart, while likely the least dangerous of the 4, can still freeze people and once had Spider-man at her mercy and could have chosen to kill him if she wanted. I'm not saying that Nitro isn't a threat, but based on the knowledge the FF would have had before the battle Nitro's ability to blow up with about a house-sized radius is no more dangerous than Cobalt man's repulsor beams and dirty bomb ability or Speedfreek deciding to go on a superspeed killing spree.
Ult. Fireboy
09-02-2006, 04:55 PM
You really think Sue could make THAT big of a force field?
Well I still think Sue would bobble him up. Simply on becouse he was the one that ran away, and the easiest way to stopp that is to bobble him up a lift him a few feet of the ground. The others would have gone just as quick as the NW took them down. Hey we have atleast going to admite that the FF is better the NW, faced bigger threath's and survived.
Ult. Fireboy
09-03-2006, 12:59 PM
The FF are 10 times better than the NW.
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