Young Avengers & Runaways #2 *spoilers* [Archive]

Jack Zodiac

08-30-2006, 05:58 PM

I never read Runaways, but I was thinking of picking up the trades after the first issue, because I love their group dynamic. I have, however, read all of Hienberg's Young Avengers, which I thought was incredible, if a little untimely. :p

This book, though, is great. I haven't been reading any of the other Civil War tie-in minis except for this and Frontline, mostly because none of the other teams interest me in this kind of setting, but two groups of children in the midst of superhero civil war was a great idea.

Hill goes to The Cube, a supervillain reform center from Morrison's Marvel Boy where the warden puts the inmates through hell to convert them for military use. She asks for one of his inmates to take out the Young Avengers and Runaways. His candidate? Noh-Varr, the Kree kid from Marvel Boy. Awesome. :) He's given the scent of a Skrull to track down Hulkling and Xavin and then thrown into L.A. to begin his hunt.

Meanwhile, the Runaways and Young Avengers go through their obligatory battle, where the comparisons between them are made quite clear, especially between Vision, Iron Lad, and Victor, and between Hulkling and Xavin. Nico resolves it with a power word: chill scenario and the two groups reconcile afterwards, finding out just how much they have in common with each other. They're still in disagreement about whether or not to take a side in the war, however.

Noh-Varr shows up as Teddy and Xavin talk about their heritage, where Xavin finds out that Hulkling is the fabled savior of the Skrulls who will end the clan wars and unite them once again. The issue ends with Noh-Varr knocking Xavin out in one blow and challenging the rest of the team.

I'm excited that they're using him again! His character had all kinds of potential, and given how there's a prominent Skrull child in a hero book and an even more prominent Skrull-Kree mixed breed in another hero book, a Kree child would be the perfect villain for both of them. Here's hoping they use him to his fullest potential! And I'm thinking I'll definitely be picking up the Runaways trades here soon.

Isn't the series on hiatus right now? When's it supposed to pick back up again?

Jack Zodiac

08-30-2006, 06:02 PM

Ah... I supposed I should've posted this in the Civil War forum, huh? :o

Doom Hammer

08-30-2006, 06:08 PM

I didn't read the book, but Noh-Varr should own the Cube. If I'm understanding correctly, he's just another lapdog? How anti-climactic. It'd have been cooler if he did what he swore to do.

Anyway, I'm sure the issue was good.

Jack Zodiac

08-30-2006, 06:24 PM

Well, the warden there broke his mind and is somehow in mental control of him. I'm sure he'll break it, though, and either go nuts on the government as a force for good (sorta'), or he really will try to follow through with his plans and go bad. I wouldn't mind seeing him wind up on either of the junior teams, though. He'd be an interesting addition to either team.

K'Nort

08-30-2006, 08:17 PM

Isn't the series on hiatus right now? When's it supposed to pick back up again?

Runaways? Nope. We got a book in August, and issues are still scheduled (pre-solicited) for Sept - Nov.

And it's well worth picking up those trades, I promise. It's about the only Marvel I read, but always enjoyable.

Jack Zodiac

08-30-2006, 08:20 PM

Runaways? Nope. We got a book in August, and issues are still scheduled (pre-solicited) for Sept - Nov.

And it's well worth picking up those trades, I promise. It's about the only Marvel I read, but always enjoyable.

Nevermind. They're on volume two of it already, right? I thought they were taking another break like Young Avengers is. I'll start picking up the trades, though, until I can catch up with the current arc.

XPac

08-30-2006, 08:21 PM

Hmmm... I'm not wondering if Noh is gonna be the new Captian Marvel.

We R. Venom

08-30-2006, 08:27 PM

This issue was damn great. i loved how all the characters got there time, they seemed to mesh well. I never read runaways, i actaully decided to go with YA as opposed to due to money issues. But they are still written well and i liked it much better than the first issue which was just ok. Eli was portreyedmuch better for once i think, being responsible, level headed. A real leader. Its obvious the chicks dig that,;)

Wiccan's coment about Dating a Skrull was hialrious too, i just love it. I think i may start getting trades as well.

evilheroics

08-31-2006, 01:07 AM

didnt like it.

all it did was portray the runaways as a bunch of whiners who cant accept the reality of things. as people who will not listen only argue.

i didnt care for it, i liked the aspect of a juiced of inmate of some secret prison though. it did show commander hill and her shady, do-anything side.

evilheroics

08-31-2006, 01:08 AM

duplicate.

evilheroics

08-31-2006, 01:08 AM

duplicate.

evilheroics

08-31-2006, 01:09 AM

duplicate.

TCJohnson

08-31-2006, 01:25 AM

Noh-Varr shows up as Teddy and Xavin talk about their heritage, where Xavin finds out that Hulkling is the fabled savior of the Skrulls who will end the clan wars and unite them once again.

Too bad almost all the Skrulls are dead.

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 03:05 PM

Too bad almost all the Skrulls are dead.

All of the Skrulls worlds have been destroyed, but plenty of them were spacebound when those planets were destroyed, so I'm sure there's more than enough for them to colonize again.

And I never even thought about that. How are Xavin and Teddy going to be handled when Annihilation finally reaches Earth? Xavin would want to join his ranks in space to fight Annihilus, and then there's the ordeal of Teddy having to take his true place between the Kree and the Skrull after Kl'rt's death.

1WEBHEAD

08-31-2006, 03:29 PM

All of the Skrulls worlds have been destroyed, but plenty of them were spacebound when those planets were destroyed, so I'm sure there's more than enough for them to colonize again.

And I never even thought about that. How are Xavin and Teddy going to be handled when Annihilation finally reaches Earth? Xavin would want to join his ranks in space to fight Annihilus, and then there's the ordeal of Teddy having to take his true place between the Kree and the Skrull after Kl'rt's death.

Great theory there Jack.

Xanrn

08-31-2006, 03:35 PM

It will never reach Earth.

Its already been said Nova will deadl with Civil War when he comes back.

It will be stopped in the Kree Galaxy where its raging.

Young Avenger

08-31-2006, 04:15 PM

I'll start picking up the trades, though, until I can catch up with the current arc.

Better yet, get the hardcover. It collects all 18 issues of the first series. According to Amazon.com, there will be a second Runaways hardcover collecting the first 18 issues of volume 2 in December 20th. Runaways isn't collected in trade. It's collect in digest

Jose123

08-31-2006, 05:26 PM

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 06:39 PM

Better yet, get the hardcover. It collects all 18 issues of the first series. According to Amazon.com, there will be a second Runaways hardcover collecting the first 18 issues of volume 2 in December 20th. Runaways isn't collected in trade. It's collect in digest

Oh, that's right, somebody told me that. :( I don't like reading itty-bitty digests. Hardcover it is, then. I hope it isn't too expensive.

DattaBoy

08-31-2006, 07:02 PM

Who wants to bet that there's a three way throwdown between Hulking, Xavian, and Noh Var at some point in this book?

Nomad

08-31-2006, 08:07 PM

Ok, a side note,(yes I could resurrect a dead thread somewhere else) how many Young Avengers are there now? I've never read the series, and I may pick up some of the tie-ins.

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 08:23 PM

Right now, the Young Avengers consist of Wiccan and Speed (Wanda's twins), Hulkling (the son of Mar-Vell and Anelle), Patriot (Isaiah Bradly's (the "original" Captain America) grandson), Stature (Ant-Man's daughter), and the new Hawkeye (a girl with no connection to other heroes).

Their mentor/overseer is The Vision, who has been rebuilt from futuristic technology (he's the original Vision's rebooted programming in the robotic armor of Iron Lad, an adolescent Kang the Conqueror who traveled back in time to rebuild The Avengers).

DrewTheXenocide

08-31-2006, 08:24 PM

I thought it was pretty bad. It was a bore to read and the art was crap. Except I did like the bit with Speed playing with Molly.

amneris

08-31-2006, 08:31 PM

I'm rather disappointed as well. I can't wait for the second season of Young Avengers to come out.

I don't particularly like the Runaways, but maybe the characters aren't being written well. Is their series a worthwhile read?

Young Avenger

08-31-2006, 08:34 PM

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 10:37 PM

He's still the reason the team is together, because of his programming, which included a situational execution in the event of a total Avengers roster loss. And even without his previous experience as The Vision, his programming has him acting with more rationale than a bunch of kids new at the business.

Nomad

08-31-2006, 10:56 PM

Is the "new" Vision considered the father of the twins? Or is he a new person?

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 11:06 PM

New person. He lost all of his memories when he was rebooted, and he technically isn't even physically the same Vision any more.

Young Avenger

08-31-2006, 11:29 PM

New person. He lost all of his memories when he was rebooted, and he technically isn't even physically the same Vision any more.

That's not true. Tony said in YA #7 that he has the same physical and emotional potential as the old Vision. What makes the "new" Vision different is his brain and emotional patterns are based on Iron Lads not Wonder Man and doesn't have the life experience of the olf Vision. That's unless by physical you mean not the same robot body.

Jack Zodiac

08-31-2006, 11:33 PM

Yeah, I meant his new body. Mentally (or whatever you'd considering mentality for a robot) he's the same Vision without the memories, but yeah, physically he's a new Vision. Personally, I'd sure like to see Vision regain his old memories, because even now, it still feels like he died in Disassembled, even if he's back in one piece again.

Nomad

09-01-2006, 12:57 AM

How many times has vision reverted to his cold android state? More than a few, I'm guessing.

RonnieThunderbolts

09-01-2006, 03:18 AM

He actually HAS the Vision's memories though, just not the emotional connection. He has said in YA "According to the former Vision's memory files," meaning that he is able to access the old Vision's memory, but not "remember" them. Otherwise, you guys explained it perfectly, he has ALL the same potential (emotional and physical, according to Tony Stark's analysis) Tony said he was "THE Visions, just not OUR Vision" in issue 7. He is more like the Twin's half brother if you ask me, being sort of the son of the old Vision and Kang's armor/harness (he's got the potential of both machines, making him essentially their progeny).

How many times has vision reverted to his cold android state? More than a few, I'm guessing.

He isn't cold and emotionless at all right now. He has the brain patterns and emotions of Iron Lad, or young Kang, and the readers and characters are privy to that. He's actually only really been reverted to that state once, but there was a bit of back and forth, without a really concrete position about his emotional capabilities for years after he was taken apart in Byrne's run of West Coast Avengers.

Nomad

09-01-2006, 03:43 AM

`
He isn't cold and emotionless at all right now. He has the brain patterns and emotions of Iron Lad, or young Kang, and the readers and characters are privy to that. He's actually only really been reverted to that state once, but there was a bit of back and forth, without a really concrete position about his emotional capabilities for years after he was taken apart in Byrne's run of West Coast Avengers.

Glad to hear it. Vision is one of my favorites, and he has been around in one form or another since pre-silver age. Am I wrong?

Drifter

09-01-2006, 06:43 AM

I'm suprised no ones wondering wether or not Xavin is even alive!? look at that last panel, Noh-Varr swings in and snaps his neck, rather then a 'bang' or 'kapow' its a solid 'KRACK'

MarcusP2

09-01-2006, 07:36 AM

A Super-Skrull isn't going to die from a broken neck.

TransformersFan

09-01-2006, 08:05 AM

YA & Runaways makes me realize how much I miss Young Avengers. Of all the comics I have read and picked up in the last year, it is by far my favourite. It can do no wrong. I keep the first trade by my bedside and hug it before I go to sleep.;)

TCJohnson

09-01-2006, 08:36 AM

I'm suprised no ones wondering wether or not Xavin is even alive!? look at that last panel, Noh-Varr swings in and snaps his neck, rather then a 'bang' or 'kapow' its a solid 'KRACK'

I don't think broken bones mean much to somebody who can change the shapes of their bones in the first place.

And I don't think that they will kill off one of the Runaways without Vaughan writing it.

chickrockguitar

09-01-2006, 03:02 PM

Nope Xavin ain't dead. We're not that lucky! :D

Bobster777

09-01-2006, 09:36 PM

Hmm, interesting issue. I didn't think Marvel Boy would be making an appearance so soon. I wonder if he'll be factoring in the CW after the mini?

Sean Whitmore

09-02-2006, 04:21 AM

all it did was portray the runaways as a bunch of whiners who cant accept the reality of things. as people who will not listen only argue.

That's funny, because if somebody asked me to explain the Runaways to them, that's word-for-word the description I'd use. ;)

I did love the interaction between the teams, though. They both have a robot descended from an Avengers enemy, they both have teammates destined to grow up evil, they both have a Skrull, and they both have one member significantly less mature than the rest. Tommy/Molly rule!

Heh, Marvel Boy firmly in-canon. That's cute.

It's funny how quickly Patriot went from being my least favorite Young Avenger to my favorite. He's really grown into being a leader, further demonstrated here by being the one guy on either side who didn't get drawn into the fight. The wonders of overcoming a drug addiction, I guess. :)

SEAN

Doom Hammer

09-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Marvel Boy is too cool to be in continuity. ;)

Ult. Fireboy

09-02-2006, 01:39 PM

A Super-Skrull isn't going to die from a broken neck.
I agree, he can change into any shape. A broken bone is not going to kill him.
I really enjoyed the issue though.

Pyro

09-02-2006, 08:58 PM

I really enjoyed the issue. I think Zeb Wells handles all of the characters so well. Especially since he's the first (I think) to write them other then their creators, not counting bit parts/cameos in other books (New Avengers, Civil War). Only molly seemed a little too young here, not enough to really bother me though. I love the interaction and the parallels that were drawn between the teams and it was done without being corny. Both teams have spawns of Ultron, a member fated to become evil, and they both have Skrulls in a gay (most of the time) relationship. How's that for a coinky-dink? It was really a genious idea to put Marvel Boy in this, and I can't wait to see where it takes him. I don't think he'll join either of the teams, but I don't know. And Stefano Caselli's art wasn't too bad. I don't like his style very much, but he does draw some pretty cool scenes. Like when Nico did the chill out spell and the room had a disco look to it. That was a cool panel. Very good issue.

Hi-Fi

09-03-2006, 07:37 PM

This was enjoyable. But I don't like how Wells makes the Runaways so annoying and the Young Avengers so mature.

I mean, Stature isn't much older than Molly!

Ult. Fireboy

09-03-2006, 07:49 PM

I prefer the Young Avengers though. I like Patriot.

Sean Whitmore

09-03-2006, 07:58 PM

This was enjoyable. But I don't like how Wells makes the Runaways so annoying and the Young Avengers so mature.

Not to be snarky, but from what I've read in both books, he nailed the characterization of both teams pretty accurately.

SEAN

Hi-Fi

09-03-2006, 08:19 PM

Not to be snarky, but from what I've read in both books, he nailed the characterization of both teams pretty accurately.

SEAN

I read both the entire series and I still think the Runaways charcterization is a little off. Don't get me wrong, the Runaways can be annoying (and I love them for that) but Vaughan knows how to write "good" annoying. Here they are just...annoying. I mean, Xavin is a completely different character here!

Plus the Young Avengers are pratically acting like adults.

Still an ok read, though. The Molly/Tommy interaction was spot on.

Ult. Fireboy

09-03-2006, 08:21 PM

How old are the Young Avengers supposed to be?:confused:

Bobster777

09-03-2006, 10:55 PM

How old are the Young Avengers supposed to be?:confused:
I believe they are between the ages of 15-17.

Ult. Fireboy

09-04-2006, 04:15 PM

Thanks. They act more mature for that age though.:)

DouglasDanger

09-05-2006, 01:35 PM

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/2347382.html#cutid1

More Marvel Boy stuff. Some of the stuff makes me wonder what is going on exactly. Specifically, what "galerian ash" said:
Spoiler:

That prison warden guy saying that "Our boy was stranded here with an army of interdimensional Kree". That's not what originally happened; the spaceship was shot down and only Noh-Varr survived (and he wasn't stranded, he chose to stay).

Then he goes on to say "We killed the bloated intelligence ... But the boy seemed so lost without it", which isn't true to the original either. Midas tried to take over PLEX, and while Noh-Varr was upset, it didn't faze him enough to stop him from ordering the computer to self-destruct. Hence I highly doubt that he would've been lost even if PLEX had been destroyed.

And then there's the fact that there's no mention of Oubliette, or any of the hell that Noh-Varr raised before being captured. If this was the same Noh-Varr as from the original mini-series, they would've had to somehow explain why none of the super-heroes stopped Oubliette from blowing up Disney World in her Cosmic Jihad, or stopped Noh-Varr from his war.

There's also a lot of little things; like how Noh-Varr wouldn't be as hateful of Skrulls as the warden claims, he wouldn't attempt to kill a baby (seeing how he didn't even kill the merceneries sent to hunt him down), and no matter how messed up he was he would never even have allowed someone to treat him the way the warden does (atleast not without a lot of defiantly cocky attitude!).

...But of course, perhaps I'm just seeing things since I really don't want this to be what became of one of my favorite characters ;_;

Misinformed mad scientist? Writer not reading the source material? Man, that is some terrible art.

Doom Hammer

09-05-2006, 02:34 PM

This was enjoyable. But I don't like how Wells makes the Runaways so annoying and the Young Avengers so mature.

I mean, Stature isn't much older than Molly!

Ask a 14 year-old if she thinks she's much older than a 12 year-old. ;)

Sean Whitmore

09-05-2006, 03:12 PM

Misinformed mad scientist? Writer not reading the source material? Man, that is some terrible art.

Eh. Let's just say this is 616 Noh-Varr, and the one from Marvel Boy wasn't.

SEAN

Doom Hammer

09-05-2006, 04:05 PM

Eh. Let's just say this is 616 Noh-Varr, and the one from Marvel Boy wasn't.

SEAN

Or, let's just say, "GAAAH!" while banging our heads against a desk, and quietly wonder why the universe is unjust.

Ult. Fireboy

09-05-2006, 04:11 PM

I thought the art was fine. No Hitch or Land, but it was okay.:)

Kid Lantern

09-06-2006, 09:11 PM

isnt Noh-Varr just so cool!!! I hope he becomes a runnaway or at least dosent die..... :o

Also. What is Chase doing? trying to bring back the one that died?

Mariah

09-08-2006, 12:01 PM

I assumed since he'd been tampered with mentally, that was the reason he was acting so weird, and also, the Warden could have lied?!?! to make him sound better.

Doom Hammer

09-09-2006, 05:59 PM

Having just reread Marvel Boy, I'm extremely disappointed that Noh-Varr is being treated this way. First of all, he's way too resourceful and tough to be broken like this. He proclaimed that the Cube would become the new capital of the Kree Empire, and damnit he could've done it. Now they've broken his mind based on some stupid reasoning that he couldn't function without Plex, in spite of the fact that he lost contact with Plex for days and dtill managed to escape from Midas. Oh, and nevermind the fact that he spent most of his time telling Plex to shut up. :D

Seriously though, I can't believe the character's getting the shaft like this. I can't believe that Oubliette and the Cosmic Jihad are being ignored. If you're going to use Marvel Boy in continuity, use HIM, damnit, not some shadow of him.

And I don't see him caring about either the Runaways or the Young Avengers: he doesn't want company, he doesn't want compassion, he wants to change the world because it's all he has left. This is just heart-breaking.

tangentman

09-09-2006, 08:39 PM

I read both the entire series and I still think the Runaways charcterization is a little off. Don't get me wrong, the Runaways can be annoying (and I love them for that) but Vaughan knows how to write "good" annoying. Here they are just...annoying. I mean, Xavin is a completely different character here!

Plus the Young Avengers are pratically acting like adults.

I'm with Hi-Fi on this point. The Runaways act accordingly with their age, but they're also very resourceful young adults who've managed to survive on their own without adult supervision. If Vaughn were writing this series, he'd most likely show us that the Runaways are reluctant to pick a side for moral reasons. Gert would've rubbed off enough on them that they wouldn't want to support a needless conflict created by adults.

Wells merely seems to play them off as reactionary non-conformists who are too much the slackers to take a stand. Not the Nico or Karolina that I've read in Runaways. The YA definitely seem to be receiving the "characterization" advantage here.

EDIT: Oh, regarding Noh-Varr's compliance with the warden? I can see how Marvel Boy fans would find that annoying. From what I recall about the mini, I want to give Noh-Varr the benefit of the doubt and say that he's working on a long-term plan to crack the Cube in half. He seemed thoroughly trained and determined enough that he could endure the torture and play "good dog" long enough to catch the Warden with his pants down. Maybe he even relinquished his voluntary thoughts, and on an instinctual level, he's waiting for the time to undo his prison?

Kaos

09-10-2006, 08:57 AM

WTF my comic store has only just got issue 1.....rasfrasa

Calybos

09-10-2006, 01:29 PM

tangentman

09-10-2006, 02:29 PM

I think the characterization is fair. Despite their similarities in age, the two groups have come together for very different reasons.

The Young Avengers are determined to live up to the examples of the heroes they admire; the Runaways have deliberately rebelled against the heroic legacy and are trying to find a new path. It's no surprise that the YAs come across as more "mature."

Despite their ages, though, the Runaways often have thoughtful reasons for the stances they take. I'm not seeing that level of characterization in this mini. IMO, they just seem to avoid taking a side out of apathy. Again, there's far more to the Runaways that new readers won't see here. I won't go so far as to say that they're completely out of character, but they're venturing there.

Blackcat

09-11-2006, 02:59 AM

Come on people, we all have been (or are) teenagers. There is a major difference in being 12 or 14 or 16 years of age. A big difference in behaving, thinking, acting etc. So it's logical the YA react a bit more mature compared to the Runaways.

Besides: Speed is acting much less mature compared to Katrina and Nico.

The only character acting really mature is Patriot. Never seen a teenager with a high sense of responsibility?

PretenderNX01

09-11-2006, 03:31 AM

Come on people, we all have been (or are) teenagers. Besides: Speed is acting much less mature compared to Katrina and Nico.
Thats probably why he and Molly det along so well. :p

I haven't read Runaways before, so I don't know if theirs little differences I'm not picking up on. With the Young Avengers, they seem like the same characters but their "voice" is a little off somehow- so it could be the same for the Runaways. Or it could be theat their just isn't enough room for full chacter moments, although the Tommy/Molly bit seemed real.

The art still isn't my favorite- not the worst I've ever seen, but I'm a bit spoiled by Jim Cheung.