X-Men #190 - Review and Spoilers!!!

[Hi-Fi]

Awesome, awesome, awesome issue!!!!


Summary:

So we all read the preview pages. Iceman exploded and Sam is thrown right into Colossus arms. Northstar then makes Cyclops beans bounce everywhere, taking out the Astonishing team.

While Auroura keeps the X-Men busy, Jean-Paul finds Sabretooth cell. But Anole suddenly appear all happy because his dreamy teacher is alive!! Jean-Paul is happy to see him, but just for a minute. He punches Anole right after.Northstar break in the cell but all he finds there is a really pissed Rogue. And guess what!! She doesn't have her gloves on! Tag, Jean-Paul! You're it!

Meanwhile Aurora is facing some of the students. She quickly er...almost kill X-23 and Mercury but her next oponent is a surprise!! Her other personality is standing right there!! Poor crazy Aurora! Mystique plays her like the bitch she is.But when Aurora starts punching her, is up to Iceman to save the day. Turns out that he came back, from steam to ice to human. But wait! He can't breath!! He needs some RCP!! Is that Mystique's tongue I see??

So Rogue and Northstar are having the most beautiful fight between speedsters I ever saw!! But Jean-Pauls is clearly more experient in that department so he finally takes Rogue down. Thankfully, he's defeated by Cable, who gets a whole big page just for him!! You see, when the sun was blacked out last issue, Cable sensed something was wrong.

Oh,oh. Serafina is not pleased with Cable intervention. She cloaks herself and enters the Insitute. No one can see her or sense her. Sam gets naked Bobby to the Infirmary in a way that WILL make people talk. Rogue makes fun of Emma without reason. That's my girl!

So now we have this great scene with Cable and Creed talking to each other. Creed says that the Children are not mutant or human! (but we all knew that, right?)

In the infirmary, Beast is happy that Bobby's ok. Hank and Karima exchange some words and I can almost say Hank has a thing for her. Sam is leaving the infirnary and Serafina is following him. Someone has a stalker! When Serafina sees Lady Mastermind laying there, she makes contact with the machine helping her and make her own illusion with Sam stuck there! The girl is eager for some dirty fun!!



Great, great, great book!! Carey handles Mystique so right!! And Rogue Vs. Jean-Paul!! Plus he remembers little things like Anole and Northstar relationship. And he writes a really good Cable!

And Serafina IS the best new character of the year!! Deal with it, Vulcan!

[Hi-Fi]

hum...speeders is not a real word, is it?

[Zombienorthstar]

Ive not read this yet...but i think the proof of a good writer is always in a detail. The fact that Anole was brought in for Northstars return is so bloody beautiful its unreal.

[Zombienorthstar]

hum...speeders is not a real word, is it?


I believe its speedsters.

[Hi-Fi]

I believe its speedsters.

Thanks! Will edit.

[jen]

Sam gets naked Bobby to the Infirmary in a way that WILL make people talk.


Yeah they will! ;) I posted these in the the preview thread. But here they are again! :D

The Male-Bonding!!!
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_2.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_3.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_4.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_5.jpg

Great re-cap Hi-Fi! I also enjoyed this one as well. This one has a lot in the details. Like when Cable is interrogating Sabes and Sabes has thrown his desk and chair so hard it sticks to the ceiling! It was definitely a good one!

[Zombienorthstar]

Sam calling Cable 'Nathan'....thats great...it clearly says that carey sees him as a grown up.

[Hi-Fi]

Great re-cap Hi-Fi! I also enjoyed this one as well. This one has a lot in the details. Like when Cable is interrogating Sabes and Sabes has thrown his desk and chair so hard it sticks to the ceiling! It was definitely a good one!

Yeah, I'm really starting to like Bachalo's art again. I bet the great writing has lots to do with it, though.;)



And guys, Bobby and Sam are just friends! :evilsmile

[jen]

Yeah, I'm really starting to like Bachalo's art again. I bet the great writing has lots to do with it, though.;)



And guys, Bobby and Sam are just friends! :evilsmile


How awesome is an issue that has an image like this:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/raven_ice_1.jpg

Yet all I can think of is Sam carrying Bobby to the infirmary!! :D

And ansolute best line:

Emma: They saw an angel, but I am fairly sure she was a post-production effect.

Rogue: You mean like your hair?

Rogue certainly was in a bad mood when she was almost downed by Northstar. ;)

[Madrox84]

Sounds like a fantastic issue, i can't wait to get my hands on a copy.

[Hi-Fi]

And ansolute best line:

Emma: They saw an angel, but I am fairly sure she was a post-production effect.

Rogue: You mean like your hair?

Rogue certainly was in a bad mood when she was almost downed by Northstar. ;)

I just love Rogue these days. My passion for the character resurfaced 100%.

[Hi-Fi]

Ive not read this yet...but i think the proof of a good writer is always in a detail. The fact that Anole was brought in for Northstars return is so bloody beautiful its unreal.

Agreed. Little details like that prove the writer really cares about the book and the characters.

[Joe Zool]

I just love Rogue these days. My passion for the character resurfaced 100%.


I'm with you there, buddy.

[Zombienorthstar]

Agreed. Little details like that prove the writer really cares about the book and the characters.


Other details:

-The fact Cable has a captain america insignia on his arm

- Sams agkowledgement of Cable, being one of the prodigal son

-Wolverine and Cable's dislike for eacother

- Auroras split personality reference with Mystique.

[jen]

I just love Rogue these days. My passion for the character resurfaced 100%.

Mine too! She hasn't been this good in a long time! :D The scene with Northstar and her was gorgeous!

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Whoa there was some definate sexual tension between sam and bobby.....Hmm....Perhaps a Bobby, Sam, Jean-Paul threesome?:rolleyes:

[Beast]

Yeah they will! ;) I posted these in the the preview thread. But here they are again! :D

The Male-Bonding!!!
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_2.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_3.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_4.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/junkeeb/Rogue/x-men%20190/icecan_5.jpg
Bobby and Sam! So cute a couple. Man, Bobby is such a player. :D

[Beast]

In the infirmary, Beast is happy that Bobby's ok. Hank and Karima exchange some words and I can almost say Hank has a thing for her.
Jesus, Hank. I guess he still feels like a Hindu Sex God, considering he's flirting with every female that comes into the infirmary lately. By the way, any mention of Dark Beast yet? Considering Karima was on an island with him for months, you'd think it would come up. Unless he's the "Pan" behind 'The Children' and wiped her memory of him.

[Joe Zool]

As I said in the other thread, I think Mike Carey is having fun playing with Iceman's sexuality, as I'm sure he intentionally had these scenes play out the way they happened.

Of course, I could be wrong, but it just looks so damn obvious.

[Joe Zool]

Jesus, Hank. I guess he still feels like a Hindu Sex God, considering he's flirting with every female that comes into the infirmary lately. By the way, any mention of Dark Beast yet? Considering Karima was on an island with him for months, you'd think it would come up. Unless he's the "Pan" behind 'The Children' and wiped her memory of him.

Considering how amazing Mike has been withi continuity in just three issues, I gotta say I wouldn't mind that at all.

[Mitsaso]

Great issue!
And even greater summary from Hi-Fi with lots of fun expressions and comments!

Bobby and Sam! So cute a couple. Man, Bobby is such a player.
Of course, pretending helplessness is the oldest trick on the book when it comes to stealing old-fashioned farmboys' hearts!!:D

I wanted to do a Bobby/Sam avatar too but Zombienorthstar and Jen beat me to it.:(

I have a couple of questions though:

1) Can you properly administer CPR to somebody when you're slipping your tongue in his mouth???

2) What's so great about Sam that makes Serafina go all-stalkerish on him? Hands off Bobby's man you little BITCH!!!!!!!!!:mad:

3) Why was the Cable/Sabretooth scene so crappily drawn (while the rest of the issue was pretty awsome)???

4) Does Cable actually have a role in this storyline or Carey just forced him in it? "I saw the sun blacking out and thought I'd pass by and say hi" doesn't really work for me!

5) If you were Bobby, who would you choose between Sam and Mystique?? I'm gay but I think Mystique has more assets than Sam, given how she can turn into David Boreanaz any given time!:D

[Joe Zool]

5) If you were Bobby, who would you choose between Sam and Mystique?? I'm gay but I think Mystique has more assets than Sam, given how she can turn into David Boreanaz any given time!:D


LOL!!!

Dammit, I can't wait to get this in my own hands tomorrow.

[lament]

Great issue!

5) If you were Bobby, who would you choose between Sam and Mystique?? I'm gay but I think Mystique has more assets than Sam, given how she can turn into David Boreanaz any given time!:D

Why choose? Let's let Bobby live a little! :)

[Beast]

Of course, pretending helplessness is the oldest trick on the book when it comes to stealing old-fashioned farmboys' hearts!!:D
Bobby: "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers."
I have a couple of questions though:

1) Can you properly administer CPR to somebody when you're slipping your tongue in his mouth???

2) What's so great about Sam that makes Serafina go all-stalkerish on him? Hands off Bobby's man you little BITCH!!!!!!!!!:mad:

3) Why was the Cable/Sabretooth scene so crappily drawn (while the rest of the issue was pretty awsome)???

4) Does Cable actually have a role in this storyline or Carey just forced him in it? "I saw the sun blacking out and thought I'd pass by and say hi" doesn't really work for me!

5) If you were Bobby, who would you choose between Sam and Mystique?? I'm gay but I think Mystique has more assets than Sam, given how she can turn into David Boreanaz any given time!:D
1. It must be a new technique. :D

2. I dunno. Maybe Carey's bringing back up Sam's immortality?

3. It's Chris Bachalo.

4. He's supposed to, but I wish he didn't.

5. Mystique. She could shapeshift into half of the male X-Men that Bobby's got a thing for, but too scared to come out and pursue. Beast, Cyclops, Archangel, Wolverine... etc.

[Keith_Martineau]

...Okay.

I looked at those pages. I don't see any sexual tension. Alls I see is Sam carrying Bobby to the infirmary. Bobby ain't naked, he's in a blanket. Later, they pound fists like friends.

Damn you Chuck Austen for starting this. Now everybody reads way too much into Bobby's sexuality.

[lament]

5. Mystique. She could shapeshift into half of the male X-Men that Bobby's got a thing for, but too scared to come out and pursue. Beast, Cyclops, Archangel, Wolverine... etc.

As long as Bobby doesn't have a thing for Nightcrawler. That would be too weird even for me. :eek:

[lament]

Damn you Chuck Austen for starting this. Now everybody reads way too much into Bobby's sexuality.

My suspicions about Bobby started way before Chuck Austen.

[Beast]

...Okay.

I looked at those pages. I don't see any sexual tension. Alls I see is Sam carrying Bobby to the infirmary. Bobby ain't naked, he's in a blanket. Later, they pound fists like friends.

Damn you Chuck Austen for starting this. Now everybody reads way too much into Bobby's sexuality.
It wasn't Chuck Austen. Bobby's sexuality has been in question long before Chuck Austen came on the scene.

[Beast]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/image.php?u=18926&dateline=1156904009

Cannonball: "I wish I could quit you."

[Keith_Martineau]

Since when then?

[Hi-Fi]

Please let's NOT turn this thread into a "Bobby is gay" discussion again. Let's talk about how frickin' messed-up Aurora is, for a change.

[Beast]

Since when then?
Much of it is due to his utterly disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex. A lot of folks have taken it to show that he's just going through the motions, afraid of coming out to his family and friends. Also back in New Defenders he would often introduce himself as Beast's boyfriend Lance. Many see that as Bobby trying to test the water of being gay with his friends, to see how they'd react. Bobby's relationship with Cloud also added fuel to the fire of Bobby being a closet case. Originally he was terrified by the fact that Cloud could shift into male form, but ended up accepting it and still wanting to be with her. Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating, a stereotypical profession for gay men. And that's just the tip of the so-called iceburg. :)

[Hi-Fi]

Jesus, Hank. I guess he still feels like a Hindu Sex God, considering he's flirting with every female that comes into the infirmary lately. By the way, any mention of Dark Beast yet? Considering Karima was on an island with him for months, you'd think it would come up. Unless he's the "Pan" behind 'The Children' and wiped her memory of him.

Yeah, I think I read wy too much into that scene.

Karima has hair now, by the way. She doesn't mention Dark Beast.

[Beast]

Yeah, I think I read wy too much into that scene.

Karima has hair now, by the way. She doesn't mention Dark Beast.
I still say that Dark Beast has to tie into this somehow. Carey seems pretty good with continuity so far. Karima likely would have made mention of Hank's evil twin, if she still remembered him. ;)

[adeathinthefamily]

Oh look, everybody's favourite arsehole is back with his inflammatory (and inaccurate) posts.

Bobby's sexuality was never in question before Chuck Austen, because never before has he a) had relations with another man or even b) had "sexual tension" (although I'm fairly certain you're going to imagine that occuring wherever you want) with another man.

Stop clutching at straws.

[Beast]

Oh look, everybody's favourite arsehole is back with his inflammatory (and inaccurate) posts.

Bobby's sexuality was never in question before Chuck Austen, because never before has he a) had relations with another man or even b) had "sexual tension" (although I'm fairly certain you're going to imagine that occuring wherever you want) with another man.

Stop clutching at straws.
Just because you can't accept the possibility, doesn't make it inflammatory or inaccurate, sweetums.

And yes, Bobby's sexuality was in question way before Chuck Austen. I've considered the possibility of Bobby being gay as far back as New Defenders, probably earlier. So has a lot of other people. All Chuck Austen was doing was playing with established continuity, just like Mike Carey is now.

[adeathinthefamily]

Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating

Well, NOW I'm convinced :rolleyes:

She said that because he had just turned the interior (and exterior, now that I think of it) of her office into an ice cave. Again, you're clutching at straws in a big way.

And cloud wasn't a man or a woman, she was an E.T. nebula. Hence the name, I suppose.

[Beast]

Well, NOW I'm convinced :rolleyes:

She said that because he had just turned the interior (and exterior, now that I think of it) of her office into an ice cave. Again, you're clutching at straws in a big way.

And cloud wasn't a man or a woman, she was an E.T. nebula. Hence the name, I suppose.
He didn't know that until after he had feelings for him/her though. ;)

[Mitsaso]

Don't turn this into a "Bobby is gay-No he ain't you arsehole" topic!!!!!!!:evilangry

I swear I'll sick my bunny onto you!!!!!



Anywayz, on the Bobby/Mystique thing, who do you think will make the next move? I bet Raven will want some more now that she's tasted that Popsickle-y goodness!:D

And I'm guessing Serafina will end up being the Children's doom, since she's the only one of them who shows some human traits...saving the little girl in the first issue, and now developing a painfully human obsession with Sam...maybe she'll end up betraying the Children and join the X-Men someday.


P.S. Like my new avatar?

[ProfeZZor X]

Much of it is due to his utterly disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex. A lot of folks have taken it to show that he's just going through the motions, afraid of coming out to his family and friends. Also back in New Defenders he would often introduce himself as Beast's boyfriend Lance. Many see that as Bobby trying to test the water of being gay with his friends, to see how they'd react. Bobby's relationship with Cloud also added fuel to the fire of Bobby being a closet case. Originally he was terrified by the fact that Cloud could shift into male form, but ended up accepting it and still wanting to be with her. Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating, a stereotypical profession for gay men. And that's just the tip of the so-called iceburg. :)

I think Carey might be playing into the whole internet hype, and going with it.

That's like saying:

"Okay, I've been dating women all my life, and none of those relationships have worked, yet I've never felt any attraction towards men.... Oh well.... I must be gay."

[Beast]

P.S. Like my new avatar?
I love it. The hearts were needed to intenstify the emotions. :D

[Beast]

I think Carey might be playing into the whole internet hype, and going with it.

That's like saying:

"Okay, I've been dating women all my life, and none of those relationships have worked, yet I've never felt any attraction towards men.... Oh well.... I must be gay."
But you're inferring that Bobby doesn't have an attraction towards men. Having disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex happens all the time for gay men who are trying to deny who they are inside.

[fishtaco]

Was Lila in it at all?

[ProfeZZor X]

Much of it is due to his utterly disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex. A lot of folks have taken it to show that he's just going through the motions, afraid of coming out to his family and friends. Also back in New Defenders he would often introduce himself as Beast's boyfriend Lance. Many see that as Bobby trying to test the water of being gay with his friends, to see how they'd react. Bobby's relationship with Cloud also added fuel to the fire of Bobby being a closet case. Originally he was terrified by the fact that Cloud could shift into male form, but ended up accepting it and still wanting to be with her. Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating, a stereotypical profession for gay men. And that's just the tip of the so-called iceburg. :)

Actually you're wrong... He did break it off with "it". But from Marvel's politically correct" stance, it would have been wrong for them to have Bobby beat the crap out of Cloud with a baseball bat, and make inflamatory gay remarks. In the panel of that specific book, Bobby clearly states that he only wants to be FRIENDS", and nothing more.

In the entire history of this character, which dates back to 1963, you're picking two instances where it could have been "preceived" as him being interested in more than women. Yet, throughout his history, no other writer has gone on to solidify that theory in any book... 616 or otherwise.

But anyway, I'm fine with the character either way.

[Mitsaso]

Was Lila in it at all?
Nope.


Oh, extra question!!!
Exactly HOW did Bobby "off" Aurora??:confused:

[Beast]

Was Lila in it at all?
Yes, she's Bobby's new Fag Hag. :D

In this case, I am just kidding.

[ProfeZZor X]

But you're inferring that Bobby doesn't have an attraction towards men. Having disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex happens all the time for gay men who are trying to deny who they are inside.

You show me a panel that has him smacking som guy's bottomside, and I'll consider it. Otherwise both hetrosexual and homosexual relationships have their fair share of ups and downs. That doesn't mean that if a person isn't having luck in that relationship, they have to re-evaluate their sexuality.

Every grown person on this planet has gone through at least three or more relationships in their life... Because they failed means they're gay (or straight - for a gay person)?

Perfect example - Elizabeth Taylor, and her six marriages. Does that mean she's gay because they didn't work?

[Beast]

Actually you're wrong... He did break it off with "it". But from Marvel's politically correct" stance, it would have been wrong for them to have Bobby beat the crap out of Cloud with a baseball bat, and make inflamatory gay remarks. In the panel of that specific book, Bobby clearly states that he only wants to be FRIENDS", and nothing more.

In the entire history of this character, which dates back to 1963, you're picking two instances where it could have been "preceived" as him being interested in more than women. Yet, throughout his history, no other writer has gone on to solidify that theory in any book... 616 or otherwise.

But anyway, I'm fine with the character either way.
If you really think that Bobby would be a gay basher if not for Marvel being P.C. you demonstrate a serious lack of understanding of Bobby's character. Bobby would never beat someone with a baseball bat and make inflammatory gay remarks, no matter what. And of course Bobby claims he just wants to be friends, he doesn't want people to know he likes guys.

There's plenty of instances where Bobby is written as ambigious. And of course Marvel hasn't had the brass ones to decide to out Bobby as gay. Because he is an established character and they know that people would flip their wig if they decide to quite beating around the bush and just made him gay or bisexual. Until recently Marvel's been scared of gay characters in general.

And you don't seem to be fine with Bobby either way. ;)

[Keith_Martineau]

Much of it is due to his utterly disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex. A lot of folks have taken it to show that he's just going through the motions, afraid of coming out to his family and friends. Also back in New Defenders he would often introduce himself as Beast's boyfriend Lance. Many see that as Bobby trying to test the water of being gay with his friends, to see how they'd react. Bobby's relationship with Cloud also added fuel to the fire of Bobby being a closet case. Originally he was terrified by the fact that Cloud could shift into male form, but ended up accepting it and still wanting to be with her. Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating, a stereotypical profession for gay men. And that's just the tip of the so-called iceburg. :)


Okay, I'll accept that. Regardless...
I still didn't see anything there that I thought was hinting or even overt. I think people saying so is just like when Novaya Havoc claimed that Dazzler and Nocturne were acting like lesbians in New Excalibur.

[caney]

And ansolute best line:

Emma: They saw an angel, but I am fairly sure she was a post-production effect.

Rogue: You mean like your hair?

Rogue certainly was in a bad mood when she was almost downed by Northstar. ;)

Rogue may still have retained some of Northstar's personality from their fight when she made this comment. Between her attitude and Northstar's sense of humor this comment almost had to be made. Very funny. :)

[jen]

Oh, extra question!!!
Exactly HOW did Bobby "off" Aurora??:confused:


It looks like Bobby in his mist state kinda put the freeze on Aurora and knocks her out. She is covered in frost when he is done with her. It was a really good scene that starts and end with Mystique! :D

And I am 100% sure that Mike and Chris are messing with us. Mike says he was gonna have alittle fun with Iceman and Chris said he had taken liberties with Mike's script. I am sure that Sam and Bobby are just friends... but you can't help the "nudge and a wink" way Chris drew the scene between them. Especially considering they have very little on! ;

[jen]

Rogue may still have retained some of Northstar's personality from their fight when she made this comment. Between her attitude and Northstar's sense of humor this comment almost had to be made. Very funny. :)

That is an excellent point! Also Rogue does lift her hood up after the remark.

[fishtaco]

Yes, she's Bobby's new Fag Hag. :D

In this case, I am just kidding.It's not funny. I'm trying to like this book.

[Mitsaso]

It looks like Bobby in his mist state kinda put the freeze on Aurora and knocks her out. She is covered in frost when he is done with her. It was a really good scene that starts and end with Mystique! :D

Thanks, I was initially given the impression that Bobby just made her choke on his aerial form.:)

And I am 100% sure that Mike and Chris are messing with us. Mike says he was gonna have alittle fun with Iceman and Chris said he had taken liberties with Mike's script. I am sure that Sam and Bobby are just friends... but you can't help the "nudge and a wink" way Chris drew the scene between them. Especially considering they have very little on! ;
That's what it looks like to me too. It's always fun to make speculation, though! And I must confess that hooking him up with Mystique and not Sam sounds more exciting to me!:D The X-Men's class clown and the Brotherhood's femme fatale as a couple remind me of the Roger/Jessica Rabbit coupling!:D
I can just see a very specific dialogue from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" replaying in the pages of X-Men:

Sabretooth: Seriously, what do you see in that guy?
Mystique: He makes me laugh.

[ProfeZZor X]

If you really think that Bobby would be a gay basher if not for Marvel being P.C. you demonstrate a serious lack of understanding of Bobby's character. Bobby would never beat someone with a baseball bat and make inflammatory gay remarks, no matter what. And of course Bobby claims he just wants to be friends, he doesn't want people to know he likes guys.

There's plenty of instances where Bobby is written as ambigious. And of course Marvel hasn't had the brass ones to decide to out Bobby as gay. Because he is an established character and they know that people would flip their wig if they decide to quite beating around the bush and just made him gay or bisexual. Until recently Marvel's been scared of gay characters in general.

And you don't seem to be fine with Bobby either way. ;)

Since when have you been the expert on Bobby's character and what he's thinking? We've all read a fair share of comics in the past, but when we start putting words in the mouths of 2 dimensional characters, it gets a little out of hand.

And I know you've said "there have been many times Bobby has been written as ambiguous", but I have yet to see at least five book #'s for actual reference. I seriously doubt Marvel gives a crap about what sexuality their characters are. They, like most other comic book companies out there believe in freedom of speech, and are more than happy to let the writer decide the fate of a chracter. And this almost certainly stems back to Chris Claremont, and his disliking for Bobby.

And as for Northstar, he's been gay for some time... That's no big secret. They could have easily done the same with Bobby years ago, but they didn't...But why start now? :rolleyes:

[Beast]

It's not funny. I'm trying to like this book.
It's incredibly funny. How does the possibility that Bobby bats for the other team or at least is a switch-hitter, ruining your enjoyment of the book?

[jester1436]

And as for Northstar, he's been gay for some time... That's no big secret. They could have easily done the same with Bobby years ago, but they didn't...But why start now? :rolleyes:

Northstar has been out, since what, the early-mid 90s? But he's been around since the 70s, so there was quite a period of time where he wasn't really anything. He's an acceptable gay character because he's lower tier, much like Karma, who is another gay and only randomly scene x-character.

Bobby is one of the original X-Men, and considering how bent out of shape many comic fans get at the hint of a character with even the slightest history being written as gay, it's not surprising he wouldn't be written out of the closet. People got pissed off by Wiccan and Hulking in Young Avengers, and those are new characters, how easy would it be to do that with a character like Iceman?

Why not start now? If it's well written, it couldn't hurt the character and would keep him away from tired stories about wanting Lorna Dane or Opal whatever. He has a workable enough history that firmly establishing him as gay, straight, or bisexual would not be nearly as much of an issue.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if he was bisexual - for some reason, it seems much more controversial to enjoy both sexes than to prefer just your own, especially with a male character.

[Madrox84]

It's incredibly funny. How does the possibility that Bobby bats for the other team or at least is a switch-hitter, ruining your enjoyment of the book?

Good question Beast. Care to answer Fishy?

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Oh god. We're gonna get into this now? Even though Bobby and Sam did look rather gay, I dont think they are. I just think that Sam and Bobby are becoming really close buds. They are probably the closest in age of the young X-guys and I think Sam was just really worried about Bobby.

[Beast]

Oh god. We're gonna get into this now? Even though Bobby and Sam did look rather gay, I dont think they are. I just think that Sam and Bobby are becoming really close buds. They are probably the closest in age of the young X-guys and I think Sam was just really worried about Bobby.
Yeah, they're really close all right. ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

Was Lila in it at all?

:evilangry

LILARAGENOW

[Novaya Havoc]

After all of this gay character talk, I think it's time to reintroduce....

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/misc/fabfive.jpg

Featured in X-Men 191 by Carey.

[ProfeZZor X]

After all of this gay character talk, I think it's time to reintroduce....

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/misc/fabfive.jpg

Featured in X-Men 191 by Carey.

All of those guys have been confirmed as being gay in one story or another, in their respective books... With the exception of Iceman (last character).

[Beast]

All of those guys have been confirmed as being gay in one story or another, in their respective books... With the exception of Iceman (last character).
Yes, he's the Ambigiously Gay member of the team. :D

[Novaya Havoc]

All of those guys have been confirmed as being gay in one story or another, in their respective books... With the exception of Iceman (last character).

Warpath and Thunderbird III were confirmed gay?

REALLY?!!!! <excitement>

[Jmacq1]

All of those guys have been confirmed as being gay in one story or another, in their respective books... With the exception of Iceman (last character).


Who are those two guys in the middle? Northstar, Ultimate Piotr, and Iceman I recognize...but the other two?

I don't recall Warpath and Neal being "outed" anywhere. In fact, wasn't Neal hot n' heavy with Psylocke and later Lifeguard?

[Beast]

Warpath and Thunderbird III were confirmed gay?

REALLY?!!!! <excitement>
Never happened. They haven't even been written ambigious, like Queer Eye Bobbo. :)

[Novaya Havoc]

In fact, wasn't Neal hot n' heavy with Psylocke and later Lifeguard?
Lies. LIES! He's MINE MINE MINE!!!! AHHH!!!!

[ProfeZZor X]

Never happened. They haven't even been written ambigious, like Queer Eye Bobbo. :)

They don't have girlfriends, so they must be gay..... right? ;)

[DDM]

Northstar has been out, since what, the early-mid 90s? But he's been around since the 70s, so there was quite a period of time where he wasn't really anything. He's an acceptable gay character because he's lower tier, much like Karma, who is another gay and only randomly scene x-character.

John Byrne created Northstar to be gay. If you read Alpha Flight #1-28, John Byrne gives hints about Northstar's homosexuality in the book. It's just not stated. The most obvious hint is when Heather calls Northstar at his home & a another man answers the phone while they are swimming in his pool.

Bobby is one of the original X-Men, and considering how bent out of shape many comic fans get at the hint of a character with even the slightest history being written as gay, it's not surprising he wouldn't be written out of the closet. People got pissed off by Wiccan and Hulking in Young Avengers, and those are new characters, how easy would it be to do that with a character like Iceman?

Why not start now? If it's well written, it couldn't hurt the character and would keep him away from tired stories about wanting Lorna Dane or Opal whatever. He has a workable enough history that firmly establishing him as gay, straight, or bisexual would not be nearly as much of an issue.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if he was bisexual - for some reason, it seems much more controversial to enjoy both sexes than to prefer just your own, especially with a male character.

I disagree. I think Bobby is a straight guy who is severely emotionally immature. Bobby's immaturity is the root cause of his problems with women. Simply having constant problems with women does not mean Bobby is gay.

[Beast]

I disagree. I think Bobby is a straight guy who is severely emotionally immature. Bobby's immaturity is the root cause of his problems with women. Simply having constant problems with women does not mean Bobby is gay.
However that and all the other subtle hints indicate that he may very well be.

[fishtaco]

However that and all the other subtle hints indicate that he may very well be.Such as?Oh god. We're gonna get into this now? Even though Bobby and Sam did look rather gay, I dont think they are. I just think that Sam and Bobby are becoming really close buds. They are probably the closest in age of the young X-guys and I think Sam was just really worried about Bobby.Bobby kind of acted like an older brother to Sam when they were X-Men together, such as in Uncanny X-Men #332 and when they infiltrated Graydon Creed's campaign. I think people are looking too far in to things. I don't think there is a single character that no one on this board would call gay. I've heard people on here call anyone from Cyclops, to Sage, to Dazzler, to Nocturne, to Captain Britain, to Avalanche to Mammomax gay. If there is an actual hint on the writer's part that implies a character is gay (ie John Byrne's Northstar), then there's a point, but if it's just something in the art, then people are looking way too far in to things. Whatever.

[caney]

I love the way Mystique is being used. Maybe I'm just slow or something, but this is the second straight issue that I didn't figure out that it was her imitating someone else until they showed it. Last issue when I saw Professor X I thought they were messing up with him in space and all. This issue I thought it was just crazy Jeanne-Marie talking to herself again.

It seems that all of the characters are using their powers in cool ways. I'm glad to see Rogue using her leeching abilities more, and Iceman taking out Aurora while in steam form was just great. Even Cannonball doing that pinball takeout of Sabertooth in issue 188 was neat.

In conclusion, yeah for X-men using their powers in cool ways!!! :D

edit: I also like the idea that Cable can't read Sabertooth's mind, but he can still use his powers to write to it. That was pretty cool.

[Affinity]

And Serafina IS the best new character of the year!! Deal with it, Vulcan!

Ooooh yeah!

[Toboe]

I can't wait to get this issue, looks quite cool. I'm loving Carey's work on this title, he's the reason I got back to it.
I'm most looking forward to the Iceman/Cannonball scenes, I just knew it was coming (damn it Mystique, don't get int the way!).
And I must say Rogue has grown to be my favourite character right now, Carey writes her extremely well, and it's nice to see he's using mutant powers in original ways.
I just hope to get used to Bachalo's art with this issue.

[dotdotdot]

Much of it is due to his utterly disasterous relationships with members of the opposite sex. A lot of folks have taken it to show that he's just going through the motions, afraid of coming out to his family and friends. Also back in New Defenders he would often introduce himself as Beast's boyfriend Lance. Many see that as Bobby trying to test the water of being gay with his friends, to see how they'd react. Bobby's relationship with Cloud also added fuel to the fire of Bobby being a closet case. Originally he was terrified by the fact that Cloud could shift into male form, but ended up accepting it and still wanting to be with her. Emma also snarkily commented many years ago that when Bobby was tired of playing superhero he should take up Interior Decorating, a stereotypical profession for gay men. And that's just the tip of the so-called iceburg. :)

i really can't express how retarded every word of this is. completely off-base.

[dotdotdot]

However that and all the other subtle hints indicate that he may very well be.

no, not really.
wait until there is ever a scene written that might suggest it. for example, the interior decor comment is snarky because its supposedly pansy an the antithesis of a tough superhero, not because anyone was calling bobby gay.
so silly.
learn to read comics, guys. it's a skill.

[jen]

Please let's NOT turn this thread into a "Bobby is gay" discussion again. Let's talk about how frickin' messed-up Aurora is, for a change.

Speaking of which. It was awesome how Mystique tried using the split personalities against her. Very resourceful and so totally cruel! That is Mystique! I really like how Carey is writing her. :D

And I didn't know the Sam and Bobby thing would cause such a stir. I am sure it was in cheeky fun. I didn't mean to get everyone uptight. These things don't bother me and I assumed everyone would get a giggle. Sorry! :o

[Beast]

i really can't express how retarded every word of this is. completely off-base.
Not off base at all, dearie. Just because you don't choose to believe the evidence that has been presented, doesn't make it retarded or wrong.

[Beast]

no, not really.
wait until there is ever a scene written that might suggest it. for example, the interior decor comment is snarky because its supposedly pansy an the antithesis of a tough superhero, not because anyone was calling bobby gay.
so silly.
learn to read comics, guys. it's a skill.
There have been plenty of scenes written that suggest it, whether or not you choose to take those scenes as evidence that Bobby might not be entirely straight is another matter. A number of people do. You know you're breaking one of the rules of the forums with your rudeness.

[dotdotdot]

There have been plenty of scenes written that suggest it, whether or not you choose to take those scenes as evidence that Bobby might not be entirely straight is another matter. A number of people do.

no.....its all semantics. those actual scenes suggest nothing. the only reason it might be a topic is speculation on that cloud relationship and a possible bobby/mystique relationship.....and even then it would only be a speculation about bisexuality or other identity/sexual issues to explore with the character.
i mean i would have no problem with this if it were written well, but there's simply nothing to go on here. its the worst case of grasping at straws i've seen in a long time.

[We R. Venom]

HOLY FREAKIN GOD!!!!!!!!

That issue was amazing. I was not disapointed with what i bought today. Well you all know I have been waiting for this issue for like ever. It was just rediculously good, front to back. I will try not to go on for pages abotu what i thought about it though. Here goes.

First off, the Bobby, sexual tension etc etc blah blah, lets please not talk about that entire time ok. Cuz this issue was blazin. However...at first i was all, "oh hell no, Bobby cant be gay ill never read the comic ever again."
But now im like..."that issue was so good i dont even care anymore. Besides im nto apposed to gay characters, it works for Hulkling and Wiaan and i love them too so its all good. Plus- it makes the character of Bobby so much more interesting to me...if its done right of course.

And speaking of Done right, ;) Mystique is my mistress so hands off ladies and gentle men. She is written phenominally(sp?) yes brilliant and I love the scientific mind of Mr. Carey, its so much easier to understand(to me anyway) when thigs are broken down. The explanations and the art it self. the way Rogue and JP moved, I got a DBZ ish vibe with the speed and and the explanationa dn how it was shown.

Cable was rather surprising to me, I dont know much about him in Cable/Deadpool, but i liked his characterisation. Now as for Canonball, is he gay, or bi or...something cuz I dont know what is coming from him right now, liking bobby? Maybe thir just friends, who knows. He better not steal bobby from mystique, ill be pissed, PISSED! Personally i expect her not to want a relationship, or to treat him like dirt, which will be awesome. i dont know im confused. uhhh, ok im so focused on Mystique i think im gonna have to read the issue agin before I review it more, from my own opinion of course.

So im off.

[dotdotdot]

whats nutty is with all the talk writers are now more likely to play off of this idea, regardless of the intent of the actual scenes which have been taken out of context by people who don't get it. the whole thing is a sham, pure message board invention.

[Valmore]

Fairly decent read as far as the story. Carey's making me like Cable again.

However, the artwork is still terrible.

[Beast]

whats nutty is with all the talk writers are now more likely to play off of this idea, regardless of the intent of the actual scenes which have been taken out of context by people who don't get it. the whole thing is a sham, pure message board invention.
That's your opinion, but it certainly doesn't make it fact.

[caney]

What I want to see now is Mystique interact with everyone as a team. She just kind of disappears when they all get together so far. Maybe she's just avoiding them for now, but she'll have to interact with the group sooner or later. She's gonna add some fireworks to this group and it'll be great. :)

[Volk1]

I'M JEALOUS OF SAM GUTHRIE BECAUSE SERAFINA IS GONNA MESS WITH HIS MINDZZZZJDJZZZZZ!!!!


I want my mind to be messed with by Serafina for as long as she wants, whenever, and wherever. Lucky S.O.B.:p

This is the bestest X-book going right now. The characterization is unbelievable. Carey truly understand these characters. The dialogue is top-notch. And Carey eveb understands what fits into continuity in regards to Emma's powers and whatnot. Great story I'm reading right now...:)

Baubier twins : Need to join the cast! There's too much story-telling to tell with these twins! I want to see more....more....more....

[dotdotdot]

HOLY FREAKIN GOD!!!!!!!!

That issue was amazing. I was not disapointed with what i bought today. Well you all know I have been waiting for this issue for like ever. It was just rediculously good, front to back. I will try not to go on for pages abotu what i thought about it though. Here goes.

First off, the Bobby, sexual tension etc etc blah blah, lets please not talk about that entire time ok. Cuz this issue was blazin. However...at first i was all, "oh hell no, Bobby cant be gay ill never read the comic ever again."
But now im like..."that issue was so good i dont even care anymore. Besides im nto apposed to gay characters, it works for Hulkling and Wiaan and i love them too so its all good. Plus- it makes the character of Bobby so much more interesting to me...if its done right of course.

And speaking of Done right, ;) Mystique is my mistress so hands off ladies and gentle men. She is written phenominally(sp?) yes brilliant and I love the scientific mind of Mr. Carey, its so much easier to understand(to me anyway) when thigs are broken down. The explanations and the art it self. the way Rogue and JP moved, I got a DBZ ish vibe with the speed and and the explanationa dn how it was shown.

Cable was rather surprising to me, I dont know much about him in Cable/Deadpool, but i liked his characterisation. Now as for Canonball, is he gay, or bi or...something cuz I dont know what is coming from him right now, liking bobby? Maybe thir just friends, who knows. He better not steal bobby from mystique, ill be pissed, PISSED! Personally i expect her not to want a relationship, or to treat him like dirt, which will be awesome. i dont know im confused. uhhh, ok im so focused on Mystique i think im gonna have to read the issue agin before I review it more, from my own opinion of course.

So im off.

thank you yes, let's talk about the actual issue.
serioulsy i'd be really interested if carey follows up on this sam thing, but you get burned and then a dude rushes you into infirmary.......no gayness here, guys. if i think too hard about it, your reasoning is actually pretty offensive, but why bother getting offended, we're talking about comics.

edit: oh sorry, that wasn't really aimed at the guy i quoted.
srsly great issue today.

[dotdotdot]

That's your opinion, but it certainly doesn't make it fact.

no reading the actual comics involved and understanding context makes it fact.
if more is written about it, in hindsight, scenes like the one this issue might have more depth, but there's no way you can make the leap from the information we're given here. it's not as if carey should have written a female character carrying him to the infirmary because otherwise people will think these guys are gay.

[Hi-Fi]

I can't believe the "Bobby is gay" discussion is still going on. You guys must STOP ruining threads with that crap. I'm sure there's already a thread dedicated to this subject.

[dotdotdot]

I can't believe the "Bobby is gay" discussion is still going on. You guys must STOP ruining threads with that crappy. I'm sure there's already a thread dedicated to this subject.

good point.

[Hi-Fi]

Speaking of which. It was awesome how Mystique tried using the split personalities against her. Very resourceful and so totally cruel! That is Mystique! I really like how Carey is writing her. :D



Agreed. I love how she doesn't care about ruining poor Aurora's mind by playing her like that. And I LOVED Aurora's reaction:

"Get back inside of me!!!"

[Beast]

I can't believe the "Bobby is gay" discussion is still going on. You guys must STOP ruining threads with that crap. I'm sure there's already a thread dedicated to this subject.
We're discussing the book. There's a clear potentially homo-erotic undertone between Bobby and Sam, and it's related to the issue at hand. Mike Carey's well aware and has been presented the various pages of possible evidence over the years that Bobby may not be entirely straight. He's been written as ambigious a lot. So it's a valid topic of discussion in regard to this issue.

[We R. Venom]

People talk shit, they just wanna see something different, or ruined,, heh depending on how its done. This is not a joke anymore and its really not funny to me. If Bobby is gay, so be it its all good with me, but he isnt really gay right now ok so just leave it alone and actually WAIT untill you see what happens.

But anyay, On the subject of the twins, I dont really know them that well, however of what i have read, this si the best I have seen then done really, ....uhh aside from being mind controlled, ability, power wise, it seems great to me. And then theres the Astonishing X-men, Emma to be exact, I didnt know she could not use her powers while in diamond form, because i saw that she did in astonishing. Whedon and Carey seem to ahve two different takes on it, so who is right?

[dotdotdot]

There's a clear potentially homo-erotic undertone between Bobby and Sam

everything about this is just wrong. start a new thread though.

[We R. Venom]

Agreed. I love how she doesn't care about ruining poor Aurora's mind by playing her like that. And I LOVED Aurora's reaction:

"Get back inside of me!!!"

Dude...well I can't lie haha i thought the same thing. I think Mystique has warped my mind.

[Beast]

everything about this is just wrong. start a new thread though.
Not wrong. I said potentially.

[dotdotdot]

Not wrong. I said potentially.

"clear" and "potentially" sort of work against each other in that sentence - is an example of a post i might make in the new revamped bobby gayness thread that i hope you're about to make for such a discussion.

[Hi-Fi]

Here, kids:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=111160&highlight=Iceman

Go play over there.

[Dioces]

I think the only thing that will ever stop the "Bobby is gay" discussion is a full issue dedicated to him having sexual relations with women on every panel, and the only thing he is saying is "I'm not gay!"

Anyway, great read, this is currently my fave X-book, I'm even enjoying Cable!

[Hi-Fi]

And then theres the Astonishing X-men, Emma to be exact, I didnt know she could not use her powers while in diamond form, because i saw that she did in astonishing. Whedon and Carey seem to ahve two different takes on it, so who is right?

Carey is right. Emma can't use her telepathy when she's in diamond form.

[Affinity]

They'll just call it denial, lolol.

[jsg2295]

I think the only thing that will ever stop the "Bobby is gay" discussion is a full issue dedicated to him having sexual relations with women on every panel, and the only thing he is saying is "I'm not gay!"

Anyway, great read, this is currently my fave X-book, I'm even enjoying Cable!
Then I guess he would be...bisexual.:D

[fishtaco]

Maybe Brian can start a "Is Bobby Gay?" thread. It can even be a sticky thread.

[dotdotdot]

its amazing i really am interested in cable and rogue after just a few panels each.
mark of greatness......

[Volk1]

Speaking of which. It was awesome how Mystique tried using the split personalities against her. Very resourceful and so totally cruel! That is Mystique! I really like how Carey is writing her.
That scene was really well done. I thought it was an actual extention of Jean-Marie's split-personality at first....

And I like it how the freakin' colorists FINALLY get Bobby's hair color right!!! :rolleyes: But not even in the beginning of the issue. Only when he shares a scene with a true blonde that they finally change his hair to brown.

Who are these people that color my X-Men books?!

[Mystique's Rogue]

I LOVE ROGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p I've loved her since XTAS. I'm glad that she's being well-written again. I love her more than I love Gambit but I MISS GAMBIT SO DAMN MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

BTW, do we get to see any interaction between Mystique and Rogue?

[streator]

I can't believe the "Bobby is gay" discussion is still going on. You guys must STOP ruining threads with that crap. I'm sure there's already a thread dedicated to this subject.
seconded.

moving past that, a few questions:

has karima ever said anything about neal sharra? i'm not even talking specifically since carey brought her to x-men either.

were cable's powers addressed at all? or, is carey following nicieza's lead with the infonet and all that?

[caney]

I don't know too much about Cable. I tried to read his history over at uncanny.net, but it just hurt my head. What exactly was he doing to make Sabertooth's skull go transparent in those panels?

[We R. Venom]

its amazing i really am interested in cable and rogue after just a few panels each.
mark of greatness......

Thats carey for you. i dont know what it is about him but I really think he is excellent. I think he will be on for a long time, and i think the next 2 issues will be even better.

[Doom Hammer]

Can I ask why it matters, at all?

Nothing is confirmed. Those who speculate that he is gay suggest he is ambiguously gay. As in, he might be, he might not be.

So some people think he may or may not be, others think he's not. Why is this such a huge point of conflict? It's all speculation. If you don't like to think of Bobby as being gay, then who cares? Ignore the speculation. It's not an actual issue; if Bobby comes out in the comic, then argue about it.

Until then, what's the point? "I think he is." "I think he's not." "You're an ass!" See where the conflict is? It's in that third part. Both opinions are fair and legitimiate, and opinion has to be pretty outrageous to be flat-out wrong, so who cares what the other guy thinks? Present facts, discuss...but don't fight. Don't take it personally. It's not even a real issue.

I say this because this issue rocked ass, and it's the first time in a long time I've enjoyed X-Men this much. I went from dropping it to buying it eagerly, regarding it as one of my favorites.

[fishtaco]

I don't know too much about Cable. I tried to read his history over at uncanny.net, but it just hurt my head. What exactly was he doing to make Sabertooth's skull go transparent in those panels?That's Cable for ya. Cable's creator had a set vision for him, but editorial and two other writers/artists warped him completely and convoluted his history and origin. Fortunately, it isn't referenced all that much anymore. At least just read Cable and Deadpool. You won't be dissapointed.

[Doom Hammer]

Cable looked so much cooler here than he does in Cable and Deadpool. I love that book, but his costume there is kind of bland and goofy. He just had a nice feeling of being a veteran badass in this book, without going over-the-top 90s style. His entrance was great, but a bit convenient.

His powers were used very creatively, confusing though they may be. Everyone's powers were used creatively, actually. Carey's very gifted.

[Hi-Fi]

Fishtaco, I hope you're reading this book. Because it is so damn good! Seriously, put your no-reading rule aside and just enjoy Mike Carey's magik.

[Beast]

Fishtaco, I hope you're reading this book. Because it is so damn good! Seriously, put your no-reading rule aside and just enjoy Mike Carey's magik.
Agreed with Hi-Fi, there's something here for everyone. :)

[caney]

That's Cable for ya. Cable's creator had a set vision for him, but editorial and two other writers/artists warped him completely and convoluted his history and origin. Fortunately, it isn't referenced all that much anymore. At least just read Cable and Deadpool. You won't be dissapointed.

I've heard great things about Cable and Deadpool. I think I'll pick up the first trade and try it out.

[lament]

Okay, I read the issue, and here are my thoughts:

Northstar: Squee! He kicked so much a$$ in this book. I loved not only Carey's exposition as he used his powers against the X-Men, but also the way Bachalo visually portrayed his speed. His interaction with Rogue was fun, and I am convinced they'd hit it off and be great friends if they got to know each other. The only problem I had was during the Northstar/Anole encounter, there was one panel where Bachalo had Northstar looking way too small compared to the younger and shorter Anole.

Anole: I'm glad Carey didn't forget the kid. I've been waiting to see Anole's reaction to JP's non-death for a while. The scene was interesting, because it showed a glimmer of the real Jean-Paul. He's in there somewhere. Poor Anole, though. What a way to find out your favorite teacher has been horribly brainwashed. :eek:

Aurora/Mystique: First of all, I loved seeing Aurora take out X-23. :D Nice. You know, I think Mystique did the only thing she could do when she exploited Aurora's split personality. Mystique is a shape-shifter, and she used her abilities to distract her opponent. (I loved Aurora's "Get back inside me!") I hope they find a way to move Aurora beyond the "nut with multiple personalities" schtick. It worked, but I'd love to see her developed further.

As for Mystique, I think she'll blend really well with the team. I like the way Carey writes her.

Iceman: I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him use his powers in such a cool way. The scene with Mystique was hot. Heck, Mystique was just hot. ;) I'm looking forward to seeing where this relationship goes. Dating a shapeshifter would rock.

Cable: I'm not a Cable fan, but at least he kept JP from killing anyone. I'm confused about his current powers, though. I haven't been reading C&D. Yeah...not much more to say about him.

Seraphina: She has the potential to be a great, long-term villain. I'm looking forward to seeing what she has in mind for Sam. I think it's going to mess with his mind quite a lot.

Cannonball: Aw, you sweet guy, coming to Bobby's rescue... Totally love the natural chemistry between the guys. They're scenes were sweet and kind of sexy. So cute! OTP. :)

Sabretooth: Bleh.

The Twins: I'm glad both the twins were taken down but not killed. I only hope that they stay at the mansion and are un-brainwashed sooner rather than later. I'd love to see Northstar and possibily Aurora both land on X-teams. I think Northstar's chemistry with Rogue and Bobby would make him a good mix for this team, but I wouldn't mind seeing him in Astonishing.

Overall: Amazing issue. I am loving this title. Along with X-Factor and Astonishing, it's my favorite at the moment.

[fishtaco]

I've heard great things about Cable and Deadpool. I think I'll pick up the first trade and try it out.Try volume 2, actually. The first six issues aren't so good, but they set up the story and status quo regardless. Fishtaco, I hope you're reading this book. Because it is so damn good! Seriously, put your no-reading rule aside and just enjoy Mike Carey's magik.Reading it, yes for sure. Buying it, I'm sorry.

[Hi-Fi]

Reading it, yes for sure. Buying it, I'm sorry.

No, I'm sorry...for you.:p


Are you enjoying it, at least?

[We R. Venom]

Okay, I read the issue, and here are my thoughts:

Northstar: Squee! He kicked so much a$$ in this book. I loved not only Carey's exposition as he used his powers against the X-Men, but also the way Bachalo visually portrayed his speed. His interaction with Rogue was fun, and I am convinced they'd hit it off and be great friends if they got to know each other. The only problem I had was during the Northstar/Anole encounter, there was one panel where Bachalo had Northstar looking way too small compared to the younger and shorter Anole.

Anole: I'm glad Carey didn't forget the kid. I've been waiting to see Anole's reaction to JP's non-death for a while. The scene was interesting, because it showed a glimmer of the real Jean-Paul. He's in there somewhere. Poor Anole, though. What a way to find out your favorite teacher has been horribly brainwashed. :eek:

Aurora/Mystique: First of all, I loved seeing Aurora take out X-23. :D Nice. You know, I think Mystique did the only thing she could do when she exploited Aurora's split personality. Mystique is a shape-shifter, and she used her abilities to distract her opponent. (I loved Aurora's "Get back inside me!") I hope they find a way to move Aurora beyond the "nut with multiple personalities" schtick. It worked, but I'd love to see her developed further.

As for Mystique, I think she'll blend really well with the team. I like the way Carey writes her.

Iceman: I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him use his powers in such a cool way. The scene with Mystique was hot. Heck, Mystique was just hot. ;) I'm looking forward to seeing where this relationship goes. Dating a shapeshifter would rock.

Cable: I'm not a Cable fan, but at least he kept JP from killing anyone. I'm confused about his current powers, though. I haven't been reading C&D. Yeah...not much more to say about him.

Seraphina: She has the potential to be a great, long-term villain. I'm looking forward to seeing what she has in mind for Sam. I think it's going to mess with his mind quite a lot.

Cannonball: Aw, you sweet guy, coming to Bobby's rescue... Totally love the natural chemistry between the guys. They're scenes were sweet and kind of sexy. So cute! OTP. :)

Sabretooth: Bleh.

The Twins: I'm glad both the twins were taken down but not killed. I only hope that they stay at the mansion and are un-brainwashed sooner rather than later. I'd love to see Northstar and possibily Aurora both land on X-teams. I think Northstar's chemistry with Rogue and Bobby would make him a good mix for this team, but I wouldn't mind seeing him in Astonishing.

Overall: Amazing issue. I am loving this title. Along with X-Factor and Astonishing, it's my favorite at the moment.

Why dont you like X-23, haha no one likes this girl. i dont know much about her like...at all but i sense a lot of hate lol. Mystique, well you know what I think, Hot Hot Hot, I loved that too, been waiting for i. I guess she has been to busy to get hers, she knows she wants her some bobby, no one was looking indeed.

[lament]

Why dont you like X-23, haha no one likes this girl. i dont know much about her like...at all but i sense a lot of hate lol. Mystique, well you know what I think, Hot Hot Hot, I loved that too, been waiting for i. I guess she has been to busy to get hers, she knows she wants her some bobby, no one was looking indeed.

Hehe. I just can't get into X-23. I think it's the fact that she's a Wolverine clone. Don't get me wrong, I like Wolvy, but the whole clone thing doesn't do much for me.

Oh, I'm so with you on Mystique's hotness. *drool*

[We R. Venom]

Hehe. I just can't get into X-23. I think it's the fact that she's a Wolverine clone. Don't get me wrong, I like Wolvy, but the whole clone thing doesn't do much for me.

Oh, I'm so with you on Mystique's hotness. *drool*

Oh haha true true, the clone thing. Well, amybe one day she will be as Hot as Mystique......hahahahaha yeah right. Sorry once i get started on Mysitque i cant stop myself.:p

[jester1436]

John Byrne created Northstar to be gay. If you read Alpha Flight #1-28, John Byrne gives hints about Northstar's homosexuality in the book. It's just not stated. The most obvious hint is when Heather calls Northstar at his home & a another man answers the phone while they are swimming in his pool.

Intentions and hints mean nothing until they are confirmed on the printed page. I know Northstar was written as gay, but it was never a confirmed fact until the 90s. It's a logical resolution to it all, but a writer following Byrne could have taken it anyway they wanted to following that. It would have been an awful story, but that's neither here nor there.



I disagree. I think Bobby is a straight guy who is severely emotionally immature. Bobby's immaturity is the root cause of his problems with women. Simply having constant problems with women does not mean Bobby is gay.

I'm not arguing that point though. I'm just saying it's a completely logical avenue they could take with the character, because his relationships aren't as clearly defined or enduring as any of his peers. Hank seems to be a constant flirt and has had a few lasting relationships, Warren has had a string of long lasting and brief relationships, and Scott and Jean were the golden couple of the X-Men.

His personality and history leave him open to go in any direction almost. The presense of a successful heterosexual relationship and a lack of homoerotic imagery would probably help reaffirm his sexuality, and vice versa.


Anyway, I don't see a problem discussing it when it is somewhat relevant considering the content of the issue and how it could be read. It's not like Rogue or Mystique carried Bobby and people are screaming "Bobby is gay", it's fans going with the artwork.

[dotdotdot]

Thats carey for you. i dont know what it is about him but I really think he is excellent. I think he will be on for a long time, and i think the next 2 issues will be even better.

i demand at least 3 yrs

[lament]

Anyway, I don't see a problem discussing it when it is somewhat relevant considering the content of the issue and how it could be read. It's not like Rogue or Mystique carried Bobby and people are screaming "Bobby is gay", it's fans going with the artwork.

Yeah, I agree. I don't know why everyone gets so upset about it. He's only a fictional character, and readers are only responding to what they see in print.

And I thought Bobby and Sam were cute. :)

Ah well, live and let live. *throws flowers*

[Hi-Fi]

Anyway, I don't see a problem discussing it when it is somewhat relevant considering the content of the issue and how it could be read. It's not like Rogue or Mystique carried Bobby and people are screaming "Bobby is gay", it's fans going with the artwork.

Well, it just gets old really fast. This discussion happens in EVERY review thread for this book. And I think it's a shame that we waste so many pages on this subject, when this issue has lots of great other moments to be discussed about.




I wonder if Serafina will...you know...force a situation with Sam. And how will that affect Lady Mastermind? Will she wake up in the middle of the session??

[We R. Venom]

Hahaha flowers well, im not throwing flowers but i do agree totally. He is just a chracter, and while he is my favorite iof all, im glad he is being treated with respect now. And just WAIT and see what happens, GOD!

Haha yes, 3 years would be freakin perfect! No dying for 3 years.

[Hi-Fi]

i demand at least 3 yrs

I demand forever. Seriously. Mike said in his site that he has no intention to leave this book, because he's loving every second of this. And he has great long-term plans.

[lament]

I wonder if Serafina will...you know...force a situation with Sam. And how will that affect Lady Mastermind? Will she wake up in the middle of the session??

You know, that's sort of what I'm expecting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think Seraphina will go there. And didn't Carey say Sam would be messed up by this experience?

As for Lady Mastermind... I don't know. Maybe she might get ticked off about being used and try to turn the illusion against Seraphina.

[Beast]

Yeah, I agree. I don't know why everyone gets so upset about it. He's only a fictional character, and readers are only responding to what they see in print.

And I thought Bobby and Sam were cute. :)

Ah well, live and let live. *throws flowers*
Exactly, blame Mike Carey and Chris Bachalo for adding fuel to the fire.

And I agree, they were very cute together.

[dotdotdot]

Exactly, blame Mike Carey and Chris Bachalo for adding fuel to the fire.

And I agree, they were very cute together.

man you know they're amused by it. i bet they high fived.

[Beast]

man you know they're amused by it. i bet they high fived.
Of course they are, it's drawing attention to the book.

[We R. Venom]

man you know they're amused by it. i bet they high fived.

yeah but its not fair, they already know everything and we have to wait.

[Hi-Fi]

You know, that's sort of what I'm expecting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think Seraphina will go there. And didn't Carey say Sam would be messed up by this experience?

As for Lady Mastermind... I don't know. Maybe she might get ticked off about being used and try to turn the illusion against Seraphina.

Yeah, Carey said poor Sam would have quite an unusual experience.

I really hope that Serafina wont die at the end of this arc. I think she should become recurring in the X-Universe, as a villain or as an ally. She's just that cool.

[lament]

I really hope that Serafina wont die at the end of this arc. I think she should become recurring in the X-Universe, as a villain or as an ally. She's just that cool.

Definitely. Despite what she did to my favorite character :mad:, I think she's the best new villain to emerge in a while. And I love her look... so innocent, yet hiding her real nature.

[Omega Alpha]

I still can't get used to Bachalo's style. All women look similar, look at their eyebrows.

[X-Factor]

When I saw Sam and Bobby, my heart warmed. It looked really sweet, homosexual feelings or not.

I thought this was a fairly well written and drawn issue. Probably not my favorite of Carey's run, but still leagues above its peers. I have grown to really enjoy Carey's portrayal of Mystique and the use of her powers.

Rogue's comment to Emma about her hair was slighlty distracting and seemed out of place. Funny, but did not feel organic or even right to me.

Pencil fencing Bachalo delievered quite well for the most part, but his action shots were rather disppointing.

I really enjoyed the inclusion of Victor, but sincerely hope he and Miss Kincaid are okay.

[rilokyle]

Yay! I'm excited to get this issue tomorow. I totally forgot today was Wednesday. I hope its not sold out when I go. :(

So what did the team do with Northstar and Aurora once they were defeated? And I hope we get to see some more Karima and Lady Mastermind in future issues. I'm anxious to see whether or not I will like Carey's Cable. I basically loathe Cable, but I'm willing to bet I will like him under Mike's writing.

Sounds like a great issue. I loved your review Hi-Fi! Very enthusiastic. :o

[Syzygy]

Well, it just gets old really fast. This discussion happens in EVERY review thread for this book. And I think it's a shame that we waste so many pages on this subject, when this issue has lots of great other moments to be discussed about.

Seconded.

To all of you who hope Bobby might be revealed as gay (or, if you like, is gay), I respect your opinion...but I don't think we're going to make much progress on this issue, and we've already got a separate thread devoted to it.

Maybe it's the case. Maybe not. But the topic does have it's own thread. Like HiFi, I vote we keep it there.

Just one person's opinion.

Peace,
Syzygy

[Alphaxman]

Okay, I read the issue, and here are my thoughts:


Overall: Amazing issue. I am loving this title. Along with X-Factor and Astonishing, it's my favorite at the moment.

Sorry to bite of your style but I like how you reviewed the issue by breaking it down by character. I hope you don't mind me doing the same thing.

I really enjoyed this issue and I must say that I haven’t enjoyed reading about Rogue since X-Treme X-Men. I think that Carey is going to go down as one of the better X-writers.

Rogue: She was great and I love how you can feel her anguish over Gambit without her saying it. Just by her attitude with her teammates like Emma this issue and Logan last issue. Even by the way she puts on her hood tells a lot. It’s great that she’s using her natural powers in battle again without crying about how it effect her mentally and emotionally. The battle between her and Northstar was off the chain. It was the complete opposite exchange they had on their first meeting but with the same great chemistry if you get what I’m saying. It’s funny that she won the first round but this more aggressive Jean-Paul won this round.

Iceman: I glad writer are exploring his powers but I just wish he was written more consistently. This is not the first time he recreated his body from steam (X-Men Forever). But it does show that he is an omega mutant and quite possibly immortal. The only way I can see him dieing is if he was in a vacuum environment when his body is destroyed.

Cannonball: Even thou he had only a limited amount of screen time he hasn’t sound this confident since his X-Force days. I’m a Claremont fan but even he didn’t seem to get Sam right since he wrote him in the 80’s. I hope Carey explore his powers the same way he’s doing Bobby. I have to admit that Sam and Bobby are making a great twosome but I don’t see the gay thing and I’m gay. It’s just like how some view Claremont’s women. If he writes two women that are close there must be lesbian undertones. :rolleyes:

Mystique: She was in it for just a few pages but she made it work. I like how Carey writing her but I hope she breaks out on her own again. I think she works best when she working both angles. She can be a good ally only if it benefits her agenda. She shouldn’t be trusted as fare as you can see her.

Cable I can take or leave him. He works in C/D but I have to wait and see how he does in a team book. Plus his powers take some getting uses to. I read C/D monthly and I’m still trying to wrap my head around them.

Astonishing and New X-Men: They were great cannon folder for the twins to run though.

Karima and Lady Mastermind: I can’t wait to see how they both fit into this team. And I hope Rogue is not going to go easy on Ragan after what she did to her the last time they met.

Serafina: She’s the only one I'm feeling right now so I hope the other villains get the same growth she’s getting. That was one thing the villains lacked in the 90’s. You’re couldn’t relate to them because they were too 2 dimensional and easily beaten.

Overall I give it an A-

[Blackcat]

Emma: They saw an angel, but I am fairly sure she was a post-production effect.

Rogue: You mean like your hair?

Rogue certainly was in a bad mood when she was almost downed by Northstar. ;)
Last issue she made a sharp remark to Logan too. If this is part of 'the new Rogue'? I like it!

[Mjolnir]

The fact that Anole was brought in for Northstars return is so bloody beautiful its unreal.

i think i liked that moment the best

[chickrockguitar]

Can Anyone post scans from Aurora's fight with the New X-Men's Laura (X-23) and Cess's (Mercury)?

I've seen the Vic (Anole) scene with Northstar. Wow is all. Love to see him get some pannels!

[X-Factor]

Last issue she made a sharp remark to Logan too. If this is part of 'the new Rogue'? I like it!

Not me. I like snarky characters but not in Rogue. I still enjoy her in this book regardless of that fact though.

[Zombienorthstar]

i think i liked that moment the best

I was impressed because it was something that happened in one of the 'lesser' X-books and Carey still devoted time to it.

[Elias Bogan]

The issue was and this book is so freaking awesome!!! I cannot wait to see what decision Rogue makes at the end of the arc...heck I can't wait for next issue. Someone really needs to tell Bachalo to hurry up so this book can double-ship again :D

[ProfeZZor X]

Iceman: I'm glad writer are exploring his powers but I just wish he was written more consistently. This is not the first time he recreated his body from steam (X-Men Forever). But it does show that he is an omega mutant and quite possibly immortal. The only way I can see him dieing is if he was in a vacuum environment when his body is destroyed.

Once Carey is done, the next writer will revert him back to his goofy, light-hearted ways... Which is bound to happen. Why, because the next writer won't bother to read Carey's entire run. And will probably summarize the tail end of it to start his run. Although with the recent event of Iceman dissapating into steam, then ice, then back to flesh - and then having difficuly breathing, I have a slight problem with that. In "Forever" he did the same thing, only he didn't loose any nutrients, and was perfectly fine when the story was all over. If Carey is taking this biological approach, then I wouldn't so much call Iceman "Omega" potential anymore. In a sense, Carey is grounding Bobby's powers in a way that it creates a new weakness for him. Which is fine I guess... It just confuses the hell out of me when he starts to build him up, then knocks him down with this simple, yet effective flaw. Especially with that whole "Omega" label hanging over his head all these years.

Cannonball: Even thou he had only a limited amount of screen time he hasn’t sound this confident since his X-Force days. I’m a Claremont fan but even he didn’t seem to get Sam right since he wrote him in the 80’s. I hope Carey explore his powers the same way he’s doing Bobby. I have to admit that Sam and Bobby are making a great twosome but I don’t see the gay thing and I’m gay. It’s just like how some view Claremont’s women. If he writes two women that are close there must be lesbian undertones. :rolleyes:

I'll agree with you on the confidence level of Sam's personality. He has come a long way over the years, since his dive-bomber jacket and goggles days. He doesn't seem like the bumbling kid of the old days. Which is kind of reminicent of Scott's earlier days growing up at the institute. As for the "Bobby" incident, they don't come off as being gay. That just might be a product of Bachalo and Carey having a bit of fun with some of the internet runors floating around about Iceman. And Carey already established this in his first book that they both work very tightly as a team.

Mystique: She was in it for just a few pages but she made it work. I like how Carey writing her but I hope she breaks out on her own again. I think she works best when she working both angles. She can be a good ally only if it benefits her agenda. She shouldn’t be trusted as fare as you can see her.

Mystique did a great job at playing the phsycologically sane counterpart of Aurora. It's unfortunate that it backfired in the end, but it also showed how strongly she can be with using her mind, moreso that her perception abilities. I don't foresee her using her shapeshifting abilities as much, as her tactical knowledge. Especially with Cable being around. Still, I can't wait for her and Marie to have some sort of meaningful dialogue or conflict.

Cable I can take or leave him. He works in C/D but I have to wait and see how he does in a team book. Plus his powers take some getting uses to. I read C/D monthly and I’m still trying to wrap my head around them.

Same here. I'm not a big Cable fan, but now that he's introduced to this team, maybe I'll get a better understanding of him and a little bit of his past.

Serafina: She’s the only one I'm feeling right now so I hope the other villains get the same growth she’s getting. That was one thing the villains lacked in the 90’s. You’re couldn’t relate to them because they were too 2 dimensional and easily beaten.

Although I like Serafina and what she can do, I'm more interested in seeing Sangre completely letting loose on the X-Men, with the ferrocity and soul-less tanacity that he's shown since the beginning of this arc. Fuego and Iceman is a given, as with Perro and Sabertooth, but as powerful as they appear, they're bound to give the X-Men a run for their money. And knowing Carey, he'll make this fight one of the most memorable moments in X-Men history... Given the fact that he conciously knows the potentials and limitations of each character.

[Affinity]

Once Carey is done, the next writer will revert him back to his goofy, light-hearted ways... Which is bound to happen. Why, because the next writer won't bother to read Carey's entire run. And will probably summarize the tail end of it to start his run. Although with the recent event of Iceman dissapating into steam, then ice, then back to flesh - and then having difficuly breathing, I have a slight problem with that. In "Forever" he did the same thing, only he didn't loose any nutrients, and was perfectly fine when the story was all over. If Carey is taking this biological approach, then I wouldn't so much call Iceman "Omega" potential anymore. In a sense, Carey is grounding Bobby's powers in a way that it creates a new weakness for him. Which is fine I guess... It just confuses the hell out of me when he starts to build him up, then knocks him down with this simple, yet effective flaw. Especially with that whole "Omega" label hanging over his head all these years.


Forever was a weird story. Isn't the one where Mystique got reverted to the movie-scaly appearance? I don't think that story was all that great, to be honest. But I sort of see what you mean.

BUT you also kind of think about the circumstances---I bet he needed to be soaked in the bath because of the steam evaporating or something in the extreme heat.

[ProfeZZor X]

Forever was a weird story. Isn't the one where Mystique got reverted to the movie-scaly appearance? I don't think that story was all that great, to be honest. But I sort of see what you mean.

BUT you also kind of think about the circumstances---I bet he needed to be soaked in the bath because of the steam evaporating or something in the extreme heat.

In both cases (Forever & #190), he was eveporated into a mist-like form... And with an intense amount of heat. Whether or not he was steam or a cold mist in "Forever" is yet to remain seen. Even so, it seems that no one really knows what the composition of his ice form consists of. Remember back in Austin's (or was it Milligain's) run at Lorna's wedding where Polaris said there were metallic particles in the ice he created, and could easily take him down... Or something to that degree. Well, last time I checked, metallic particles don't freely float in mid air, seeing that he freezes the moisture in the air.

So I guess everyone has their interpretation of what he's capable of and what his weaknesses are. I just wish Hank would do an analysis on his ice composition to determine what it is exactly, and why he needs biological nutrients to sustain it.

[Affinity]

It's organic ice, right? Which is why he'd need nutrients?

By the way, in regards to the issue,

Grrrr! Karima has her hair back! *weeps*

[ProfeZZor X]

It's organic ice, right? Which is why he'd need nutrients?

By the way, in regards to the issue,

Grrrr! Karima has her hair back! *weeps*

Peter is made of ORGANIC steel, yet he doesn't need to eat or breathe in this form... Why should Iceman be an exception then. Especially when he's more powerful than Colossus is.

[Beast]

Peter is made of ORGANIC steel, yet he doesn't need to eat or breathe in this form... Why should Iceman be an exception then. Especially when he's more powerful than Colossus is.
Because Iceman shifted forms from ice to vapor, back to ice, back to human. It would make sense that he needed to have his nutrients replenished. Comparing him to Colossus when the two materials (organic steel and organic ice) are very different in composition doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Keith_Martineau]

That, and there is no such thing as "organic" steel and thus no basis for it's science.

[Beast]

That, and there is no such thing as "organic" steel and thus no basis for it's science.
Indeed. I should have been clear that I meant in regard to real steel.

Real steel and real ice are not similar materials. After all. ;)

[Rick O'Donnell]

Well the nutrients thing could be easily explained. In X-men Forever, when he did it before, throughout that miniseries he was being helped in the use of his powers by Prosh. This was the first time he did it solely on his own, and he did it through instinct. Maybe the nutrients thing won't be a problem with more experience, but when he was pulling himself together, he didnt grab onto everything he needed.


As to the having trouble breathing, it could have been shock from having his body destroyed, or the exhaustion of the transformation. Also something to be considered about Bobby's use of his powers here and the problems that resulted: More than any other X-Man, Bobby's powers have constantly been redefined by his subconscious. I mean, we know he's been an omega mutant since day one. But the whole thing with Mikhail Rasputin and then Emma back in the nineties showed that he'd always kept from exploring the upper limits of his powers because he was afraid of them. Ever since then, the most impressive uses of his power have always been pure instinct, a desperate act of self preservation. Even more recently, in Decimation, he actually switched his own powers off; his mind actually fooled his body into thinking his powers were gone. On some level, his subconscious control of his powers is greater than his conscious. Whose to say that the idea of really being immortal, when confronted with it this intimately, doesnt terrify him? The only other omega Bobby's really familiar with is Jean, one of his best friends. And look what 'immortality' and Phoenix levels of power have done for her! Sure, she always comes back....because she always keeps dying! She'll never have a normal life...which is something that has always eluded Bobby when he tries for it too.

[xmanson]

Is Regan awake? Will she have her S&M outfit?

Bobby = Andy Dick of X-Men.

[ProfeZZor X]

That, and there is no such thing as "organic" steel and thus no basis for it's science.

Mercury is considered an organic form of metal... It can also be discorporated into a vapour form, or solidified through a freezing process. Yet still retain it's properties.

Water, on the other hand, can molecularly bond with almost anything airborn (smog = acid rain, dirt = mud, pollen, etc.) So if Iceman's nutrients were lost through the discombobulation of his molecules, they had to have gone somewhere. Remember, he turned into snow when he was hit with the blast. Then he turned into steam, then to ice, then to flesh. By this time, the flames from the blast had already past, and the danger was already gone.

But what happened, and how could he have lost a percentage of himself, even if he was dissipated as a whole within that room. If he could theoretically exist everywhere in the room as either vapour, water, or ice, how could he not notice he was missing a part of himself?

If Carey is going to present some new disadvantaged element to his powers like that, he'd better have a damn good explanation on why and how it happened.... That's all I'm saying.

[rwsmith]

Pretty good issue, but a bit of a let down from the first two IMO. Didn't like the way Rogue was able to absorb Northstar by barely touching him for like half a second. I also think this book is way too cluttered with characters right now. And what was the point of having Cable stop by? Was he just in the neighborhood? Doesn't he have two countries to run? And I'm not sure why you need him when you have an interesting (and far less convoluted) cyborg character in Karima. Hopefully he and Sabretooth will take off after this arc, as I don't really see where Nathan adds much to this team and Creed is just too evil to ever be an X-man IMO. Mystique I can accept, but not Creed.

[tjarvis]

I think Cable is wanted to give the team a faux telepath, as well as for the way he would personally interact with the rest of team. He'll act as rather interesting foil to Rogue's recklessness with his own careful planning and consideration.

[Mr. Jip]

I think Cable is wanted to give the team a faux telepath, as well as for the way he would personally interact with the rest of team. He'll act as rather interesting foil to Rogue's recklessness with his own careful planning and consideration.


A faux telepath?
Has he lost his telepathy now?

For some reason, my comic book store in HK has been LATE with this title & Uncanny. Everything else is on time. :confused:
i haven't read any of Carey's supposedly wicked work yet.
i can't wait.

*shivers with anticipation*

[rwsmith]

Rogue could've just as easily pulled the information out of Creed's head by touching him, and Karima could play the foil role because of her calculating Sentinel programming. Sorry, but Carey failed to win me over on his decision to include Cable. It seems at this point very gratuitous and pointless.

I liked the rest of the issue, though, for the most part. Still don't see how Rogue could've absorbed Northstar so quickly, but no big deal. And who knows, maybe Carey will eventually get me to enjoy Nathan's inclusion on this team---that is, if he ends up sticking around after this arc.

[Beast]

Rogue could've just as easily pulled the information out of Creed's head by touching him, and Karima could play the foil role because of her calculating Sentinel programming. Sorry, but Carey failed to win me over on his decision to include Cable. It seems at this point very gratuitous and pointless.
No she couldn't. The last time she tried to absorb Sabretooth, she went feral on those around her. So it's not likely she'll try that tactic again. As for Karima, she doesn't have her Sentinel programming. Xavier and Magneto EMP'd her and used their powers to reboot her and put her human consciousness back into control of the body.

[garin]

A faux telepath?
Has he lost his telepathy now?Yeah. He lost all of his original mutant powers. He now has digital telepathy, and technology-based force field projection (which emulates his lost telekenesis).

What he threatened Sabretooth with doesn't seem possible given his power set, but he may well have been bluffing.

[The Shadow]

Quick question: Who was Serafina talking to before she went into the mansion?

[Omega Alpha]

And who knows, maybe Carey will eventually get me to enjoy Nathan's inclusion on this team---that is, if he ends up sticking around after this arc.

SPOILERS


Rogue's team will move out of the mansion after this arc. I believe that their new base will be Providence, Cable's island, so he will stick around

[Jake V]

Quick question: Who was Serafina talking to before she went into the mansion?
The guy with her?

I think he's called Perro.

[The Shadow]

The guy with her?

I think he's called Perro.
No... Perro's the flaming head guy at the beginning of the book.

[jen]

No... Perro's the flaming head guy at the beginning of the book.

The flaming guy was Cannonball. ;) And Perro was the guy she was talking too. Fuego is the firey guy of the Children and he and Aguja stayed behind at the vault. :) I got this confused at first as well.

[Omega Alpha]

She was talking to Sangre.

[The Shadow]

The flaming guy was Cannonball. ;) And Perro was the guy she was talking too. Fuego is the firey guy of the Children and he and Aguja stayed behind at the vault. :) I got this confused at first as well.
Alrighty!

Thanks.

I just read it wrong.

Thanks Jen and Jake!

[Hi-Fi]

The flaming guy was Cannonball. ;) And Perro was the guy she was talking too. Fuego is the firey guy of the Children and he and Aguja stayed behind at the vault. :) I got this confused at first as well.


Aw, I was just ready to use that image as my new avatar...:o



I guess great minds think alike.;)

[jen]

Aw, I was just ready to use that image as my new avatar...:o
I guess great minds think alike.;)

Oops, sorry about that! Indeed great minds!!! :D There is always the pretty pic of her talking to Cable or the one where she is getting ready to kick some Northstar booty! ;)

[Hi-Fi]

Oops, sorry about that! Indeed great minds!!! :D There is always the pretty pic of her talking to Cable or the one where she is getting ready to kick some Northstar booty! ;)

Yep. I was just looking at her scenes in this issue to get a good image. I'll remain with my current avatar, though. Yours is so pretty it should stand alone! :D






I can't wait to read the Annual. It will deal with Rogue and Mystique!!

[CE_Rap]

In regards to Rogue's absorbtion----i was under the impression that the reason Northstar didn't just collapse was BECAUSE she was punching him. As in, with each punch, she took a tiny percentage more of his powers//thus making her faster.

With each punch, it was as if she was (for lack of a better phrase) "in bullet time," so anyone watching the fight, (even us readers) think it doesn't make sense that she could be absorbing so much power.

The thing is, all Rogue did by punching Northstar was accelerate herself to his level. He remained as fast as he usually is. Again, BECAUSE she didn't grab him, she just punched. And since she didn't grab him, she couldn't drain, but instead, was able to siphon small portions off just so she could stay in the fight.

It's one of the reason i loved the fight. I really like that Carey is really making a truly versatile Rogue. This is the way she should've been fighting for a while. Then again, with Ms. Marvel's strength, she probably 4got all about absorbtion during a fight//saving it only as a last resort. Now imagine if she STILL had Ms. Marvel's strength in that battle. ***WHOOOOOOO*** Northstar would've been in a tighter situation. (I still really miss her strength and flight--Sunfire's template is whack!)

I agree with those who think Cable is a bit left field. We all saw the previews so we knew he was coming, but man, that was a moment where i was like...."Why the $##@$ are you here?! Rogue needs no help. Or at the very least, someone already in the school could've backed her up.................n'ah, she should've just fought until she won.

I think Carey's doing a bang up job thus far. Yet even though i like Cable, he really doesn't need to be here right now. The book's starting to get cluttered as it is. (what was up with that scene where Cable and Sabretooth were nose to nose for like seven panels?!?! I was worried they would make out or something.)

**minor gripe** Bachalo drew a little funny in this issue to me. I really don't like his interpretation of Beast, like a sickly bobcat or something. And some pages looked really rushed. Maybe the deadline was really, really close because it was by far his weakest issue in the series. It's really in the last 4 or 5 pages that the art slopes downwards.

Otherwise, another really exciting story. Hope Cannonball gets to have a moment to really shine, but it's always a treat to see him in an X-book (loved the way he addressed Cable on a first name basis!! The young padawan has became a Jedi master:D !)

[CE_Rap]

Oops, sorry about that! Indeed great minds!!! :D There is always the pretty pic of her talking to Cable or the one where she is getting ready to kick some Northstar booty! ;)

Jen, your avi was my favorite moment in the book. From an imagery stand point, Rogue has never looked so bad-ass and ready for action.

[Hi-Fi]

**minor gripe** Bachalo drew a little funny in this issue to me. I really don't like his interpretation of Beast, like a sickly bobcat or something. And some pages looked really rushed. Maybe the deadline was really, really close because it was by far his weakest issue in the series. It's really in the last 4 or 5 pages that the art slopes downwards.




That worries me. The book was pushed back a week this month, and I'm afraid that it will suffer more delays if Bachalo isn't able to draw it in a monthly basis. I don't wanna see any more delays. It's already hard for me to wait a month for Carey's fantastic story.

[fishtaco]

No she couldn't. The last time she tried to absorb Sabretooth, she went feral on those around her. That's odd. Which issue title and number?

[Radical_dreamer]

Serephina creeps me out, there I said it. Utterly freaky that one.

[Hi-Fi]

Serephina creeps me out, there I said it. Utterly freaky that one.

But don't you lover her for that?

She's so exciting!! :cool:

[Beast]

That's odd. Which issue title and number?
I don't recall, it was discussed in one of the other issue threads. Either #188 or #189.

[Beast]

**minor gripe** Bachalo drew a little funny in this issue to me. I really don't like his interpretation of Beast, like a sickly bobcat or something. And some pages looked really rushed. Maybe the deadline was really, really close because it was by far his weakest issue in the series. It's really in the last 4 or 5 pages that the art slopes downwards.
Bachalo's art is horribly inconsistant from issue to issue, and even panel to panel.

X-Men #188 - He looked like Ultimate X-Men Beast, even so far as having a ponytail.

X-Men #189 - He looks like a 'Apeman/Kitty Beast' hybrid with the short muzzle. Yet he still has the Ultimate X-Men ponytail, inconsistant with Hank's hair. But even worse, he has 4 fingers and a thumb. But when he asks Karima how many fingers he's holding up, Bachalo's Beast suddenly loses a finger because Karima says "Three, your full compliment." And then the next panel has 4 fingers and a thumb again.

X-Men #190 - 'Kitty Beast's' appearance changes yet again, as you said more Bobcatish.

[Christopher O]

I just read the issue, and I must say that I really heart Mike Carey. Once again, Rogue steals the whole show with one damn line! I'm lovin' it. It's really a miracle how much I'm enjoying this book. I really don't like Bachalo's work, but Carey's doing such a bang-up job that I hardly even notice. Brubaker's run holds so much promise, and I think once we've got the complete picture, it's going to be so much stronger, but Mike Carey has made each issue wholly satisfying, despite being only a fraction of the story.

[CE_Rap]

Bachalo's art is horribly inconsistant from issue to issue, and even panel to panel.

X-Men #188 - He looked like Ultimate X-Men Beast, even so far as having a ponytail.

X-Men #189 - He looks like a 'Apeman/Kitty Beast' hybrid with the short muzzle. Yet he still has the Ultimate X-Men ponytail, inconsistant with Hank's hair. But even worse, he has 4 fingers and a thumb. But when he asks Karima how many fingers he's holding up, Bachalo's Beast suddenly loses a finger because Karima says "Three, your full compliment." And then the next panel has 4 fingers and a thumb again.

X-Men #190 - 'Kitty Beast's' appearance changes yet again, as you said more Bobcatish.


yea, it was really killing me everytime i saw him. And i believe he has four fingers in this issue, this adding to more discontinuity. You should really send MArvel your avy, dude. I been sayin' 4ever that if a SIMIAN beast is gonna devolve, he'll devolve into a GIANT BLUE GORILLA. The F$#@ did they get this kitty $#!%.

[rwsmith]

SPOILERS


Rogue's team will move out of the mansion after this arc. I believe that their new base will be Providence, Cable's island, so he will stick around

That would make sense. At least that would be a good reason for him to join this cast, as opposed to the lame "I just dropped by to see what was going on" reason he used in this issue.

Sorry, I think my bias against time-traveling Summers kids is showing again.;)

[d newton]

You should really send MArvel your avy, dude. I been sayin' 4ever that if a SIMIAN beast is gonna devolve, he'll devolve into a GIANT BLUE GORILLA. Where the heck did they get this kitty version from?
Can we please leave "should he be a ape or cat" discussion out of this?

[X-Factor]

That worries me. The book was pushed back a week this month, and I'm afraid that it will suffer more delays if Bachalo isn't able to draw it in a monthly basis. I don't wanna see any more delays. It's already hard for me to wait a month for Carey's fantastic story.

I do not mind the delays. The writing and art have been superb that one issue can hold me over until the next, as much as I am excited and anticipating what will come (probably moreso in all cases than I am with Astonishing, my now second favorite title).

It's one of the reason i loved the fight. I really like that Carey is really making a truly versatile Rogue. This is the way she should've been fighting for a while. Then again, with Ms. Marvel's strength, she probably 4got all about absorbtion during a fight//saving it only as a last resort. Now imagine if she STILL had Ms. Marvel's strength in that battle. ***WHOOOOOOO*** Northstar would've been in a tighter situation. (I still really miss her strength and flight--Sunfire's template is whack!)

All the characters are showing a great amount of versatility. Personally, action scenes are not what I look forward to most, but Mike is surely making himself an exception.

I really like Serafina as well. I wonder if it will only be her that shines in the spotlight during this arc out of the other Children.

[Beast]

Can we please leave "should he be a ape or cat" discussion out of this?
We would, if Bachalo knew how to draw him. ;)

[CE_Rap]

We would, if Bachalo knew how to draw him. ;)

:D too true and too funny :D

[Dazzler]

Northstar and Aurora want to make me cry. I love them so, SO much it hurts. At first, I was kind of sad that they're villains now...but then, I realized that I also hate everyone on planet earth, too...Vicarious pleasure.

--Dazz

[Christopher O]

Northstar and Aurora want to make me cry. I love them so, SO much it hurts. At first, I was kind of sad that they're villains now...but then, I realized that I also hate everyone on planet earth, too...Vicarious pleasure.

--Dazz
LOL. What a great post!

[Dazzler]

LOL. What a great post!

thank you. it rings out because it's true. :)

--Dazz

[Alphaxman]

With Cable’s Infonet abilities he would be the first one to know what happened with the sun. The other people who would be alerted would be people like Reed Richards but they are to busy make a prison for their friends.:rolleyes:
Plus since it happened so close to the mansion he came to see what’s up. I don’t know why he would “Body Side” by the prison area but he was needed. With Rogue unable to fully absorb Jean-Paul she must not have gotten his knowledge and experience that comes with his powers. That why she lost.

[Mr. Jip]

WHat ON EARTH is "DIGITAL TELEPATHY"..?

[d newton]

We would, if Bachalo knew how to draw him.
Well at least he helps get this book out on time (Astonishing X Men 7 to 12, anyone?).

[garin]

WHat ON EARTH is "DIGITAL TELEPATHY"..?He's mentally linked to the "Infonet", which seems to be a kind of super-Internet. He has incredible access to information and analysis. He can also link other's minds into the Infonet, and use the connection to transfer any kind of information into their mind.

Which obviously means I was wrong about his inability to carry out the threat to Sabretooth, I forgot this aspect of his power. Luckily Carey is on the ball.

[Hi-Fi]

I knew Bachalo would not complete this arc.

Clayton Henry posted this:

I just completed issue #191 of X-men, written by Mike Carey. I can't express how much fun it was working from Carey's script. The X-men are returning to their glory days and it is great being a part of it. This is issue is probably the best work I've ever done. I hope you will check it out. I will now begin work on Uncanny X-men #480. No rest for the weary.

[ProfeZZor X]

I knew Bachalo would not complete this arc.

Clayton Henry posted this:

So what, did Bachalo drop the title mid way through #191? Or was #190 his last?

[Hi-Fi]

So what, did Bachalo drop the title mid way through #191? Or was #190 his last?

Bachalo will draw the rest. He just skipped #191 to finish the arc in time.

[Affinity]

Oh nooooooooo!

Hopefully he will come back.

Or we can get some hotties like Calero or Coipel or KHARI EVANS OMG to take over!

edit:

Oh, that's fine that. GOOD IDEA. Though I'm not too crazy over Henry.

[CE_Rap]

So what, did Bachalo drop the title mid way through #191? Or was #190 his last?

i have a feeling it was his last (just a thought). #190 looked like he ran out of time. That REALLY hurts an illustrator.

[jen]

I knew Bachalo would not complete this arc.

Clayton Henry posted this:

Bachalo had stated a while back he would not be penciling #191. He said he was disappointed cause it was the one where one of the children has her wicked way with Sam. ;) He said something about Marvel wanting long lead times and the first month was a double ship. Looks like Chris and Clayton both feel that MC's stuff is the best X-Men work they have done. AWESOME! :D

[Hi-Fi]

Bachalo had stated a while back he would not be penciling #191. He said he was disappointed cause it was the one where one of the children has her wicked way with Sam. ;) He said something about Marvel wanting long lead times and the first month was a double ship. Looks like Chris and Clayton both feel that MC's stuff is the best X-Men work they have done. AWESOME! :D

Now that you mentioned, I remember that Bachalo interview.

Yes, I'm glad they're all excited about working with Mike!;)

I wanna see what Mark Brooks will say now!:D

[Keith_Martineau]

Clayton Henry doing Uncanny and titular fill-in's.

He's the new Tom Raney. Perpetual X-fill-in.

[CE_Rap]

Clayton Henry doing Uncanny and titular fill-in's.

He's the new Tom Raney. Perpetual X-fill-in.


booooooooo!! It's a shame when a good artist can't make deadlines. Bachalo has his moments, but i really like him when he's on point. Raney's good enough, though. In particular, i remember thinking he drew a really cool Apocalypse when he drew for "X-Men" during "The Twelve" arc, but that was a lifetime ago.

[ProfeZZor X]

Henry's art isn't that bad. I actually like it... I'm also curious how he'd pick up on Bachalo's Iceman, since most artists draw him with a smooth look, instead of chunky. I hope he won't revert him back.. I'm a bit partial to Bachelo's "chunky elf".

[streator]

I knew Bachalo would not complete this arc.
damn. while i don't mind clayton henry's art i wish bachalo would have been able to get the whole arc done.

[Keith_Martineau]

booooooooo!! It's a shame when a good artist can't make deadlines. Bachalo has his moments, but i really like him when he's on point. Raney's good enough, though. In particular, i remember thinking he drew a really cool Apocalypse when he drew for "X-Men" during "The Twelve" arc, but that was a lifetime ago.

Uh...thats exactly my point. Tom Raney was the X-fill-in guy for as long as I could remember. That means there has always been a need for fill-in's, because meeting monthly deadline is something only a few artists can achieve.

Artists who can only do 9 to 10 issues a year have been around forever. Nobody noticed until Marvel started letting some artists go without fill-in's.

[jeangreydp]

I just want to say that Rogue is facking hot in this book.

FINALLY!

I get to see her the ass kicking tomboy instead of the sappy lovesick snore!

Also

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECABLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE E! :D

This book is hawt.

[rilokyle]

Now that you mentioned, I remember that Bachalo interview.

Yes, I'm glad they're all excited about working with Mike!;)

I wanna see what Mark Brooks will say now!:D
Yeah- I thought I read in the solicitation that Mark Brooks was going to be pencilling issue #191. I think I would have preferred that to Henry's, but I won't pass any judgement until I see his work on the book.

[X-Factor]

Henry, as generic as his art can be, is not a disappointing fill-in artist. I infinitely prefer Bachalo over him, but he is at least decent.

I am forever thankful if it will not be Brooks or Raney any time soon.

[Hi-Fi]

Yeah- I thought I read in the solicitation that Mark Brooks was going to be pencilling issue #191. I think I would have preferred that to Henry's, but I won't pass any judgement until I see his work on the book.

Mark Brooks will be pencilling the Annual. :)

[X-Factor]

Mark Brooks will be pencilling the Annual. :)

Expletive.

[Hi-Fi]

Expletive.

I kinda like his art. I'm glad he isn't the book's regular artist, though.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Clayton Henry doing Uncanny and titular fill-in's.

He's the new Tom Raney. Perpetual X-fill-in.

Yeah, but his art is 100x better. Its not even in the same catergory as Raney, if you ask me. Henry is an awesome penciller, Im glad he's filling in for both Uncanny and X-Men. I love seeing him draw the X-Men and hopefully this means he'll have his own book soon.

[CE_Rap]

Uh...thats exactly my point. Tom Raney was the X-fill-in guy for as long as I could remember. That means there has always been a need for fill-in's, because meeting monthly deadline is something only a few artists can achieve.

Artists who can only do 9 to 10 issues a year have been around forever. Nobody noticed until Marvel started letting some artists go without fill-in's.

i kno---i wasn't disagreeing:)

[CE_Rap]

Yeah, but his art is 100x better. Its not even in the same catergory as Raney, if you ask me. Henry is an awesome penciller, Im glad he's filling in for both Uncanny and X-Men. I love seeing him draw the X-Men and hopefully this means he'll have his own book soon.


i think so too. His backgrounds are stronger, as is his perspective. I think i would give a slight edge to Raney in the dynamics department only because he shows a body in motion "leaning" into the movement just a tad more. A very, very small difference that Henry could obliterate in #190.

Henry's a good choice who i think could take off in his own direction (via X-Men )in the near future.

[For the Good of X]

I love this title. It brought me back to the X-Men.

[Alex A Sanchez]

I disagree. I think Bobby is a straight guy who is severely emotionally immature. Bobby's immaturity is the root cause of his problems with women.

BINGO! Congrats DDM, I think you are the first person in these forums to nail Bobby's character. He's emotionally immature, which explains why his best bud was in high school when he was a veteran X-man. It explains his failed relationships, and if you have ever know a person who was severely delayed in their emotional developement (I've worked with a few as clients) they can come off as gay to someone who does understand.
I'm actually very suprised that no writer has had Bobby hook up with one of the younger girls at the school- Austin should have had Paige and Bobby as a couple, not Paige and Warren.

[Christopher O]

BINGO! Congrats DDM, I think you are the first person in these forums to nail Bobby's character.
Um, I don't think Bobby's emotional immaturity was lost on anyone. It's one of those things you don't really have to mention. It's obvious.

[Alex A Sanchez]

[SIZE="4"]
This is the bestest X-book going right now. The characterization is unbelievable.

Even better than X-Factor (after reading X-Factor #10)? I'm suprised to hear that. Of course, X-Men does have all of the action that X-Factor has been missing. But then again, the story has been so good in X-Factor that I didn't even realize the action was missing (until I read X-Men #190).

[Alex A Sanchez]

Um, I don't think Bobby's emotional immaturity was lost on anyone. It's one of those things you don't really have to mention. It's obvious.

Noooo... I'm talking about the way his emotional maturity affects his sexuality. Everyone keeps giving evidence for why they think Bobby is gay, when the evidence they are presenting is actually evidence for his emotional immaturity. In other words, I'm saying that anyone who thinks Bobby is gay is wrong: he's just immature.

[Christopher O]

Noooo... I'm talking about the way his emotional maturity affects his sexuality. Everyone keeps giving evidence for why they think Bobby is gay, when the evidence they are presenting is actually evidence for his emotional immaturity. In other words, I'm saying that anyone who thinks Bobby is gay is wrong: he's just immature.
That's one interpretation. Another is that his emotional immaturity is the reason he hasn't come out yet. It's all about the angle.

[Nstar83]

I am really upseat now, I had lots of things to do an spend money.I missed like half the months releases,this is one casualty.I wasn't digging this book , it felt really bleak an really dark.I now must go get it,northstar anole I love it when obscure characters get time in the spotlight.I really wish they would take Anole out of the backround for New X-men give him a place in another x-book.I don't know the team for this book has me alittle worried some of the characters really don't seem like they would make good X-men.

[xmanson]

Does Sam have an oral fixation or what? He's always with that thing on his mouth... maybe Bobby will help him with it.

[rwsmith]

Let's not start that stupid "is Bobby gay or isn't he" crap in this thread, please. There's a whole thread dedicated to idle speculation that the guy might be homosexual, so whaddya say we keep that debate where it belongs?

[Bobster777]

I'm glad to finally see Cable come into the mix. Overall, I'm still very intrigued with this story. Nice to see that Sabertooth is still the same ole ruthless and manipulative bastard that he is. The fact that he only made it seem that he had important info so he could get protection from the X-Men when all he knew was knowing who the Children were would lead to death is classic Sabertooth. However, I'm back to hating the art. Too chaotic for my taste.

[Christopher O]

Let's not start that stupid "is Bobby gay or isn't he" crap in this thread, please. There's a whole thread dedicated to idle speculation that the guy might be homosexual, so whaddya say we keep that debate where it belongs?
I interpreted the tone of this post as really rude and disrespectful, just so you know. That being said, events happened in this particular book that sparked the "gay" discussion in this thread. It's an outgrowth of the issue, and while it shouldn't derail the thread, I don't see the problem in it being mentioned. Brian may have other ideas, but that's for him to decide--not you.

[CE_Rap]

Let's not start that stupid "is Bobby gay or isn't he" crap in this thread, please. There's a whole thread dedicated to idle speculation that the guy might be homosexual, so whaddya say we keep that debate where it belongs?


.................................................. .................................................. ..........he's gay!:p

[Affinity]

I interpreted the tone of this post as really rude and disrespectful, just so you know. That being said, events happened in this particular book that sparked the "gay" discussion in this thread. It's an outgrowth of the issue, and while it shouldn't derail the thread, I don't see the problem in it being mentioned. Brian may have other ideas, but that's for him to decide--not you.
I totally agree---this issue had something that those who are in favor some evidence. It's not as if the discussion was brought up in the Uncanny thread.

[Dazzler]

I interpreted the tone of this post as really rude and disrespectful, just so you know. That being said, events happened in this particular book that sparked the "gay" discussion in this thread. It's an outgrowth of the issue, and while it shouldn't derail the thread, I don't see the problem in it being mentioned. Brian may have other ideas, but that's for him to decide--not you.

SNAP!

--Dazz

[Pyro]

I loved this issue. I'm really surprised that a core X-book has stolen Astonishing X-Men's place in my top favs (I don't count X-Factor as a core X-book... only the big 3). I've read through this thread, yet I can't think of much to say. I think I'll re-read the issue to think of more stuff to say and because it was just so great.

[Oliverhannah]

Have u seen Lady Mastermind yet?

[Bobster777]

Have u seen Lady Mastermind yet?
They show her near the end of the issue.

[rwsmith]

So, the popular theory seems to be that this team will move to Cable's island nation of Providence once this arc is over. Not sure how I feel about that possibility, but at least it would give us a valid reason for Cable needing to be in this book (despite the fact that he currently has two countries to run). What does everyone else think?

[Nstar83]

If they moved to Providence that could meen maybe Cable would leads them as X-Force under his own ideas.FRees up room for a NEw X-team to take over this book once this arc is over.I wouldn't mind seeing X-force start up again in some form.

[Bobster777]

So, the popular theory seems to be that this team will move to Cable's island nation of Providence once this arc is over. Not sure how I feel about that possibility, but at least it would give us a valid reason for Cable needing to be in this book (despite the fact that he currently has two countries to run). What does everyone else think?
I don't think this will happen. If they move to the island, it would seem that Cable would have to be taking over as leader. One of the big premises of this book is that Rogue is the leader. They may make stops at Providence from time to time, but I don't see them taking roots there.

[Affinity]

If they moved to Providence that could meen maybe Cable would leads them as X-Force under his own ideas.FRees up room for a NEw X-team to take over this book once this arc is over.I wouldn't mind seeing X-force start up again in some form.
These guys as X-Force?

I like that Rogue is team leader, and I want it to stay that way.

[fishtaco]

So, the popular theory seems to be that this team will move to Cable's island nation of Providence once this arc is over. Not sure how I feel about that possibility, but at least it would give us a valid reason for Cable needing to be in this book (despite the fact that he currently has two countries to run). What does everyone else think?I don't think that's going to happen. I just don't think they're going to step on Fabian's toes like that.

[evilheroics]

i disagree, cable is more of a leader.

hes led the new mutants and xforce.

what has rogue led? cable would be the logical choice as leader...

[Gene M.]

i disagree, cable is more of a leader.

hes led the new mutants and xforce.

what has rogue led? cable would be the logical choice as leader...

Actually, this is Rogue's second stint leading an X-Men squad. She became co-leader (along side Gambit) in X-Men 103.

[fishtaco]

i disagree, cable is more of a leader.

hes led the new mutants and xforce.

what has rogue led? cable would be the logical choice as leader...Ah, but would the other X-Men be willing to follow? They didn't seem to be so enthusiastic about it in Uncanny X-Men #273, and Cable wasn't the leader when he was an X-Man the first time around either. ;)

[Christopher O]

i disagree, cable is more of a leader.

hes led the new mutants and xforce.

what has rogue led? cable would be the logical choice as leader...
Cable is more qualified to lead the team, but so are Mystique and even Sabertooth. Other factors to consider are trust and commitment, and Rogue wins out there. Besides, we don't even know the circumstances that Cable will be operating under. His role on the team has yet to be defined.

[UncannyAsianGirl]

You have to consider the type of team being lead, when it comes to choosing the leader. Cable is a big-picture kind of guy that would probably spend a lengthy amount of time meticulously planning before going out on a mission. With him being a former 4-star general and all, you kind of expect it from the guy.

Since the team's being made as a rapid-response unit, fast-thinking, the ability to be spontaneous,and being able to quickly adjust to different circumtances are a must. Rogue's got all those qualities and then some. Plus, like others have said, she's the one that most of the other teammates trust.

[DDM]

i disagree, cable is more of a leader.

hes led the new mutants and xforce.

what has rogue led? cable would be the logical choice as leader...

Uncanny X-Men #194: Rogue took over the team from Nightcrawler when they fought Nimrod.

Uncanny X-Men #217-218: Rogue--with Longshot, Dazzler, & Psylocke--lead the team against the Juggernaut.

Rogue has potential to lead the X-Men.

[Zombienorthstar]

Uncanny X-Men #194: Rogue took over the team from Nightcrawler when they fought Nimrod.

Uncanny X-Men #217-218: Rogue--with Longshot, Dazzler, & Psylocke--lead the team against the Juggernaut.

Rogue has potential to lead the X-Men.


She doesnt just have the potential..She HAS been the leader...after the sixth month gap she led the team...quite effectivley and that was on a roster that included Wolverine and Nightcrawler.

[X-Factor]

Rogue is a more interesting leader than Cable, but the reason I feel that way may be that I like Rogue and do not think highly of Nathan.

[Keith_Martineau]

See, this is why I've continued to argue that they used the wrong wording when originally announcing the "team."
They should have used the word "cast" and not "team."

Cause Sabretooth won't be on the team. But he's a cast member. And JUST having an argument over who should be leader, Rogue or Cable, is far too limiting for story purposes. Cable isn't on the "team" but he's a cast member. And lets not forget Sam's leadership experience. I'd go so far to say he's a better candidate for leading the team than even Rogue. They aren't that far in age, and Sam has had far more experience.

Anyway, I don't think it's a question of who will lead the team, Rogue or Cable, it's a matter of Rogue leading, and Cable---who has his hands in EVERYTHING: see Cable/Deadpool---will certainly way in his opinion on what they should do, and may even just insert himself in the situation as he did here. But he won't vye for leadership. That's not his thing so much now.

Let's all rememebr that Carey is including cast members for story and conflict potential, not just for the easy ideas like "who will be leader." That's story and conflict potential, but not the WHOLE story or the WHOLE conflict.

Great issue. Keep it coming. I'm so happy to finally be reading X-books that I'm totally happy with, after so many years of...uneven quality and storytelling.

Astonishing=Great
Uncanny=Great
X-Men=Great

This is how things SHOULD have been 5 years ago when Morrison and Casey took over. So, knock on wood that it keeps up.

[kate-pryde]

I don't think Cable's role on the team, at least so far, would make him the choice to be the leader. He just stumbled in on a situation and got involved. Unless he decides he's going to take a group of X-Men to stop the Children or whatever, then he's just going to be in a supporting role.

The situation with Rogue being in charge of a strike team makes far more sense, with Cable joining on temporarily. Not that he might not try to take charge, but I'd like to see Rogue step up more in her leadership role. And Rogue's not afraid to tell Cable off, so they should be plenty of bickering between them. I love the panel in UXM 386 where Rogue tells Nate that it break her heart to see baby Nathan Christopher turn out like he did. Everything that's been going on with Nate in Cable & Deedpool has been so insanely crazy, and maybe Cable's appearance in X-Men can bring him back into the X-fold and kind of get him back on track.

[Christopher O]

To be honest, it doesn't matter to me what makes sense. I'm so in love with Mike Carey's Rogue. I'm down with whatever he has planned.

[Toboe]

To be honest, it doesn't matter to me what makes sense. I'm so in love with Mike Carey's Rogue. I'm down with whatever he has planned.

Me too. As long as Carey's Rogue is there I'm fine with his plans. And I must say I don't really care about Cable.