"Survivor: Cook Islands"- Controversial? [Archive]

Shellhead

08-23-2006, 04:06 PM

I've never watched Survivor though, so I have to askthe voting off of contestants be done inside the different tribes? How does it work on this show?

The standard format for a Survivor episode features two challenges that take place on different days. The first challenge is a reward challenge, where the winner(s) get something useful like food or matches. The second challenge is an immunity challenge, where the winner(s) are safe from being voted off by tribemates that episode.

The standard format for the season has been more variable in recent seasons, but typically involves two phases, team and solo competition. In the first half of the season, two or more teams compete in each of the challenges, while spending most of the time living in separate team campsites. The team that wins immunity is safe, but the losing team must vote off a tribe member. These votes are always cast secretly and reported anonymously by the host of the show.

In the second half of the season, the surviving remnants of the original tribes are merged into one tribe, meaning they all live at the same campsite. From that point onward, all of the challenges are individual competitions (or sometimes temporary pairs or teams of three). The winner of the immunity challenge can't be voted off that week, but everybody else is fair game, unless that winner voluntarily gives away the immunity to someone else.

To maintain viewer interest and keep the game unpredictable, there are often variations thrown in. For example, when one team gets too strong, they often randomly re-assign the teams.

Last season, they started with four teams: older men, younger men, older women, and younger women. It was funny at first, because the older men were the only team that built a decent shelter and got a fire going right away. The younger women slept outside for the first few days because they couldn't even decide on a campsite, let alone build a shelter. The older women did so poorly in challenges that they quickly lost half their team, and then new two teams were randomly assigned. (Or chosen by team captains, I don't remember anymore.) The politics ended up being based on those two big tribes, and not age or gender. The final four players included one of each of the four original tribes.

So, this new season would initially involve whites voting out whites, black voting out blacks, etc. But once the tribes merged late in the season, I just think that racism will rear it's ugly head. Or at least the show may encourage racist thoughts in some of the viewers.

JerrBear81

08-23-2006, 04:28 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060823/en_tv_eo/19833

A Racy Twist for "Survivor"

By Gina Serpe Wed Aug 23, 2:05 PM ET

Some may call it exploiting racial tensions. CBS calls it darn good television.

Jeff Probst popped in on The Early Show Wednesday morning, confirming the reports that the 20 castaways for Survivor: Cook Islands will be grouped by race, with competitors divided into four tribes consisting of whites, blacks, Asians and Hispanics.

Apparently, "separate but equal" holds only the warmest of connotations for Mark Burnett.

Like a good host, Probst had nothing but praise for the producers' controversial brainchild, calling the exercise in segregation a valuable social experiment, rather than a stunt to dig up some controversy--and raise ratings.

"The idea for this actually came from the criticism that Survivor was not ethnically diverse enough, because for whatever reason, we always have a low number of minority applicants apply for the show," Probst said.

"So we set out and said, 'Let's turn this criticism into creative for the show.' And I think it fits perfectly with what Survivor does, which is, it is a social experiment. And this is adding another layer to that experiment, which is taking the show to a completely different level."

Different level, yes. Good level, still to be determined.

"If I had been a producer of this show, it is not an idea I would have come up with or given approval to," Robert Thompson, director of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University, told E! Online. "It's like a return back to segregated leagues in sports. The unseemly interest this will invite certainly is not worth the dramatic elements it's going to bring."

"To the less-than-open minded person, it is very easy to trash us," Burnett explained to Entertainment Weekly. "But we're smart enough to not make it negative. We're smart enough to have gotten rid of every racist person in casting."

Though more to the point, the producers haven't and can't weed out every racially sensitive person in their audience who may take offense to the seemingly archaic, and potentially socially irresponsible, division.

While the 43-year-old host admitted that the players themselves had "mixed reactions" to the racial separation, he made clear that the division was not meant to incite any controversy, add to the tension during the competition or simply be viewed as a gimmick.

"Our original idea was simply to have the most ethnically diverse group of people on TV. It wasn't until we got to casting and started noticing this theme of ethnic pride that we started thinking, 'Wow, if culture is still playing such a big part in these people's lives, that's our idea. Let's divide them based on ethnicity,' " he said.

Though not everyone is as excited about the idea as Probst and his Survivor crew.

"It sounds like a gimmick a lot of people are going to have real issues as to the taste of," Thompson said.

Referencing Burnett's previous experiments on Survivor and The Apprentice to divide teams by boys vs. girls and, more recently on the latter, by street smarts vs. book smarts, Thompson said that "these things don't often work so well in less dicey situations."

And any publicity is good publicity, right?

"As far as getting some attention, getting it talked about again, this'll do it," Thompson said. "Survivor is a great game. It's the gold standard of reality TV. But nobody seems to talk about it anymore."

Or watch it.

Survivor: Cook Islands will be the reality show's 13th installment and comes on the heels of the least watched season in the series' history. Despite garnering an Emmy nod for Best Reality Competition, Survivor: Panama--Exile Island averaged a franchise-low 16.8 million viewers. Hence the drastic measure.

CBS Entertainment president Nina Tassler told EW that while she was hesitant to give the go-ahead on the "risky idea," she finally relented, saying it was the logical next step in "a show that explores social politics."

"It's not just 18 white people," Probst told the magazine. "Suddenly you have new slang, new rituals--people doing things like making fire in ways that haven't been done on Survivor. I think we have a season where people will say you can never go back to what you were before."

It's not the first time a primetime reality show has flirted with race, though it will be the first time one follows through.

Last year, Donald Trump hinted that The Apprentice was toying with the idea of dividing his two teams by race, only to backtrack on the notion when backlash started up, saying "I personally don't like it, so it will never happen."

Survivor: Cook Islands kicks off Sept. 14. Here's a list of the competitors:

* Rebecca Borman, 24, makeup artist, Laurelton, New York;
* Anh-Tuan "Cao Boi" Bui, 42, nail salon manager, Christiansburg, Virginia;
* Sekou Bunch, 45, jazz musician, Los Angeles;
* J.P. Calderon, 30, pro volleyball player, Marina Del Rey, California;
* Cristina Coria, 35, police officer, Los Angeles;
* Stephannie Favor, 35, nursing student, Columbia, South Carolina;
* Billy Garcia, 36, heavy metal guitarist, New York City;
* Adam Gentry, 28, copier sales, San Diego;
* Nathan Gonzalez, 26, retail sales, Los Angeles;
* Jenny Guzon-Bae, 36, real estate agent, Lake Forest, Illinois;
* Yul Kwon, 31, management consultant, San Mateo, California;
* Becky Lee, 28, attorney, Washington, D.C.;
* Oscar "Ozzy" Lusth, 25, waiter, Venice, California;
* Cecilia Mansilla, 29, technology risk consultant, Oakland;
* Sundra Oakley, 31, actress, Los Angeles;
* Jonathan Penner, 44, writer/producer, Los Angeles;
* Parvati Shallow, 23, boxer/waitress, Los Angeles;
* Jessica Smith, 27, performance artist/rollergirl, Chico, California;
* Brad Virata, 29, fashion director, Los Angeles;
* Candice Woodcock, 23, premed student, Fayetteville, North Carolina.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060823/en_tv_eo/19833

Suuuuuuuuure. This will definitely make me watch Survivor now. :rolleyes:

une

08-23-2006, 04:32 PM

The standard format for a Survivor episode features two challenges that take place on different days. The first challenge is a reward challenge, where the winner(s) get something useful like food or matches. The second challenge is an immunity challenge, where the winner(s) are safe from being voted off by tribemates that episode.

The standard format for the season has been more variable in recent seasons, but typically involves two phases, team and solo competition. In the first half of the season, two or more teams compete in each of the challenges, while spending most of the time living in separate team campsites. The team that wins immunity is safe, but the losing team must vote off a tribe member. These votes are always cast secretly and reported anonymously by the host of the show.

In the second half of the season, the surviving remnants of the original tribes are merged into one tribe, meaning they all live at the same campsite. From that point onward, all of the challenges are individual competitions (or sometimes temporary pairs or teams of three). The winner of the immunity challenge can't be voted off that week, but everybody else is fair game, unless that winner voluntarily gives away the immunity to someone else.

To maintain viewer interest and keep the game unpredictable, there are often variations thrown in. For example, when one team gets too strong, they often randomly re-assign the teams.

Last season, they started with four teams: older men, younger men, older women, and younger women. It was funny at first, because the older men were the only team that built a decent shelter and got a fire going right away. The younger women slept outside for the first few days because they couldn't even decide on a campsite, let alone build a shelter. The older women did so poorly in challenges that they quickly lost half their team, and then new two teams were randomly assigned. (Or chosen by team captains, I don't remember anymore.) The politics ended up being based on those two big tribes, and not age or gender. The final four players included one of each of the four original tribes.

So, this new season would initially involve whites voting out whites, black voting out blacks, etc. But once the tribes merged late in the season, I just think that racism will rear it's ugly head. Or at least the show may encourage racist thoughts in some of the viewers.

Thanks for the clarification. This seems very interesting. I'll have to try and get it off of torrents.

J. Robb

08-23-2006, 04:34 PM

So, this new season would initially involve whites voting out whites, black voting out blacks, etc. But once the tribes merged late in the season, I just think that racism will rear it's ugly head. Or at least the show may encourage racist thoughts in some of the viewers.
I don't think it should be much of a problem. Race has never really been an issue on Survivor, which I think is why this seems like an odd idea to me. Last season, Cirie was very popular because of her personality and smart gameplay, the fact that she was a black woman (and kind of overweight) was a non-issue.

Racial diversity is nice, but I don't think Survivor has to prove itself to anyone anymore. They should forget quotas and go for interesting personalities, that's what the show is all about.

shades of eternity

08-23-2006, 04:43 PM

bah, what they need is a me and a few buddies on the island to make it...lord of the flies :evilsmile

Nikita

08-23-2006, 05:06 PM

I hate this show...(because it's boring, no matter who's on it)

Valmore

08-23-2006, 05:27 PM

How diverse is a cast if 15 of the 20 contestants are from California? That's almost as pathetic as dividing the tribes according to racial lines.

Conn Seanery

08-23-2006, 06:23 PM

Sounds about as controversial as the Olympics.

Samurai

08-23-2006, 06:39 PM

How diverse is a cast if 15 of the 20 contestants are from California? That's almost as pathetic as dividing the tribes according to racial lines.
Because 15 of the 20 contestants are also non-white, and "diversity" looks only at race and gender, not location of residence.

Besides, for Asians and Hispanics, California is the place to go, though a few other states like NY or Texas would also work.

cactusmaac

08-23-2006, 06:45 PM

Somebody's been watching too much Oz.

DDM

08-23-2006, 06:51 PM

It's not controversial at all. The world has become too politically correct today.

Charles RB

08-23-2006, 07:18 PM

Asia's an effing huge continent - when they say they're making an "Asian" team, does this mean they're shoving Chinese, Indian, Korean, Arabic etc people all into the same team and saying "hey, look! They're all the same race!"?

Because that would be smegheaded.

spoon_jenkins

08-23-2006, 07:34 PM

Sounds about as controversial as the Olympics.
Really?

I thought Stacy Sykora, Logan Tom, Tara Cross-Battle, Robyn Ah Mow-Santos, etc. were all on the same USA volleyball team. I didn't realize they were on different teams.

I thought Midori Ito and Kristi Yamaguchi were on different Olympic teams. I didn't realize they were teammates.

Kyoko Ina and John Zimmerman weren't a figure skating pair I guess.

Linford Christie and Donovan Bailey and Surya Bonaly had us fooled with those U.K. and Canadian and French flags when they were really teammates on Team Africa.

Did Stockton and Mullin get the memo that they didn't belong on the Dream Team?

Someone fire the speed skating commentators! They told me that Shani Davis, Joey Cheek, and Derrick Parra were teammates. At least they were telling the truth when they said that Parra and Jennifer Rodriguez raced for the same team.

J. Robb

08-23-2006, 07:53 PM

Next time they should go Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist. :)

Gilda Dent

08-23-2006, 07:54 PM

Charles: For "Asian" they probably mean "East Asian" or the modern descendants of the prehistoric Chinese. Residents and their descendants from the Indian subcontinent are generally given their own separate classification, though for these purposes, I'd guess they'll either be lumped in or more likely ignored because they don't fit neatly into any one category. I'd guess the same of people of Middle Eastern eescent.

The thing is, you can say the same of all the groups. White is a very diverse set of ethnicities, as are Asian, Hispanic, and African. Lumping all people together by race in this manner is a good way to reinforce the monolithic view of race.

It's a stunt, pure and simple, a dumb, but unfortunately possibly effective one. Why not put these same contestants on random teams?

And I don't see any reason for the high concentration from California other than laziness due to that being where the casting occurs. There are large Hispanic populations all across the southern US, and a good number of states with significant Asian populations besides California, especially in several of the larger Northeastern cities.

I still want to see a Survivor: The losers. Only the people kicked out in the first or second tribal council get invited back.

GILDA

xnef1025

08-23-2006, 08:12 PM

People don't get kicked off of Survivor because of ethnicity. They get kicked off for being too assy/nice or too weak/strong. This will cause as much racism as last year caused sexism and agism. It's just a device for choosing tribes. They've done basically everything else possible, from completly random, to sex, to age, to picking teams. If anything it's going to be an object lesson in why not to judge by race since to win you have to align with anyone that will get you through another day.

Brian Cronin

08-23-2006, 08:15 PM

Clever idea, Gilda!

As for this idea, it's fine by me. It's barely removed from the last season, which split people into four groups based on age and sex. If that's okay, then race seems okay, as well.

-Brian

Conn Seanery

08-23-2006, 08:19 PM

Really?

I thought Stacy Sykora, Logan Tom, Tara Cross-Battle, Robyn Ah Mow-Santos, etc. were all on the same USA volleyball team. I didn't realize they were on different teams.

I thought Midori Ito and Kristi Yamaguchi were on different Olympic teams. I didn't realize they were teammates.

Kyoko Ina and John Zimmerman weren't a figure skating pair I guess.

Linford Christie and Donovan Bailey and Surya Bonaly had us fooled with those U.K. and Canadian and French flags when they were really teammates on Team Africa.

Did Stockton and Mullin get the memo that they didn't belong on the Dream Team?

Someone fire the speed skating commentators! They told me that Shani Davis, Joey Cheek, and Derrick Parra were teammates. At least they were telling the truth when they said that Parra and Jennifer Rodriguez raced for the same team.
Go Team Earth!

This is just gimmicky hype. Unless they've purposefully screened and selected people with racist tendencies, I doubt the drama will be any different than any other Survivor season.

SAMAS

08-23-2006, 08:27 PM

Somehow, I don't see CBS hoping for that...

Conn Seanery

08-23-2006, 08:35 PM

It'll get people watching, they're betting. Whether they'll stick around once they find out there are no lack-of-natural-rhythm based reward challenges or kung-fu immunity competitions is another matter.

Valmore

08-23-2006, 08:41 PM

Because 15 of the 20 contestants are also non-white, and "diversity" looks only at race and gender, not location of residence.

Which is utter horsecrap, because the United States is also regionally diverse. People in New England are different than those in California. In fact, not a single person going is from a New England state. 15 people are residing in the same damned state. In terms of location, this Survivor isn't diverse at all.

Glaucon

08-23-2006, 08:47 PM

This is definitely a twist that takes you back for a second, but it isn't going to ignite new forms of racism in the United States. It's a reality television show! After Survivor: Panama - Exile Island did poorly (for Survivor standards) in the ratings, they needed to spice things up a bit - this twist is like dumping on the peppers.

Besides, there will probably only be four tribes for one (maybe two) episodes. Remember Panama? The tribes were divided by age and gender for only one episode. Maybe the first episode will see two tribes go to tribal council.

I hope the twist works well, not because I want to see the people calling it racist proved wrong, but because I want to a good season. We haven’t seen any ‘good’ strategists since Boston Rob from All-Stars, Rob C. from Amazon and Jonny Fairplay from Pearl Islands.

J. Robb

08-23-2006, 08:59 PM

Which is utter horsecrap, because the United States is also regionally diverse. People in New England are different than those in California. In fact, not a single person going is from a New England state. 15 people are residing in the same damned state. In terms of location, this Survivor isn't diverse at all.
Since people flock to California seeking fame, I'm willing to bet a huge percentage of applicants are from California. And while I agree California is overrepresented this season (I counted 13), I stick with my statement about casting personality over quotas, be they race or home state.

Grazzt

08-23-2006, 09:48 PM

We haven’t seen any ‘good’ strategists since...Jonny Fairplay from Pearl Islands.

I'd hardly call Jonny a good strategist.

TitoJones

08-23-2006, 10:25 PM

I'm just glad that there's going to be more than one black man for once on Survior.

Even though neither will make it anywhere near the final four.

Glaucon

08-24-2006, 07:37 AM

I'd hardly call Jonny a good strategist.

Yeah he was more about creating good television than making strategic plays, but he did make some great moves. Voting Rupert out, convincing Christa and Sandra to vote out Tijuana, and then convincing Lill that Darrah wasn't going to take her to the final two. You have to hand it to the man because even though every one knew he was a scumbag and a lair, they still believed him.

Cyke

08-24-2006, 11:46 AM

Wellp, Limbaugh's back on the rampage:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608240003

Xero Kaiser

08-24-2006, 12:38 PM

I haven't seen a single episode of Survivor...didn't even know it was still around.

The title had me thinking that this was some "Iron Chef" style contest

J. Robb

08-24-2006, 12:50 PM

Wellp, Limbaugh's back on the rampage:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608240003
Yes, so far it seems the most interesting aspect of this twist is the public's reaction to it. The internet is full of "hilarious" racial jokes. And of course morons like Limbaugh can't help but say something stupid.

Jared

08-24-2006, 06:29 PM

Well now I'll just have to tune in to find out...*is* the white tribe going to bring in vials of disease? :)

dougputhoff

08-24-2006, 08:03 PM

Gee, and I thought my idea of Survivor: Auschwitz was tastless.

Didn't Brown v. The Board of Education end segregation.

Loren

08-24-2006, 10:13 PM

How diverse is a cast if 15 of the 20 contestants are from California? That's almost as pathetic as dividing the tribes according to racial lines.

And that 9 of those 15 (nearly half the show's cast) are specifically from the Los Angeles area?

Shellhead

08-25-2006, 02:27 PM

Uh oh, CBS may have gone too far with this publicity stunt.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210380,00.html

"NYC Officials Want New 'Survivor' Pulled

"NEW YORK — As CBS prepares to launch a new season of the hit reality show "Survivor," this time featuring teams divided by race, enraged city officials are saying it promotes divisiveness and are calling for the network to reconsider.

"The idea of having a battle of the races is preposterous," City Councilman John Liu said Thursday. "How could anybody be so desperate for ratings?"

I don't like the idea of censorship, but I can understand why this show seems particularly offensive to some. Anybody who watched season 12 can reasonably expect that these race-based teams will be mixed up within the first few episodes, but there is still potential for some negative fallout for both participants and viewers.

J. Robb

08-25-2006, 02:45 PM

Some people just need to relax. The game will not be a battle between races, it's a battle between individuals. Looks at last season- they were divided by age and gender, and the final four players ended up being one from each team.

The other thing to remember is that while we may live in the 21st century, Survivor likes to try and connect the game to its location. The history of the Cook Islands goes back to the 17th century (as far as explorers are concerned anyways.) The world was divided then, and if they're smart, they'll include that in the game as part of their reasoning for the tribes.

titanfan

08-25-2006, 03:34 PM

We haven’t seen any ‘good’ strategists since...Jonny Fairplay from Pearl Islands.

Rafe? Cirie? Both excellent game players and good strategists. Cirie's way of subtly controlling the vote was brilliant.

Shellhead

08-25-2006, 03:58 PM

Rafe? Cirie? Both excellent game players and good strategists. Cirie's way of subtly controlling the vote was brilliant.

And how about that guy Chris who played off the all-women team against each other and then won?

J. Robb

08-25-2006, 05:15 PM

Yeah, Chris doesn't get a lot of mention despite what his against-the-odds win. I think that's partially because that season wasn't very popular, and also because, apart from the women's "leader" (forget her name), the rest weren't very good players.

Valmore

08-25-2006, 06:11 PM

TitoJones

08-25-2006, 09:49 PM

That would be Amy, she of the huge boobies and lesbianism.

I loved Amy.

And it wasn't so much that Chris was so good, it was that the rest of the players were so crappy.

Howard Allan

08-25-2006, 11:24 PM

The new tribes have been announced for the upcoming "Survivor: Cook Islands" and the twist might be seen as somewhat controversial- they're divided by ethnicity. Twenty contestants on four teams: a white team, black team, asian team and hispanic team.

What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea?

Myself, I really don't care how they split up the teams, I just hope they stay four teams for more than just the first week this time.

Survivor is a bad idea. I wish it would just go away. People act like it is actually worth even talking about, which is so wrong. They should shoot the person who inflicted this on us and started a whole trend of "reality Programs" which are nothing of the sort. Die survivor Die.

Gilda Dent

08-25-2006, 11:45 PM

Survivor is a bad idea. I wish it would just go away. People act like it is actually worth even talking about, which is so wrong. They should shoot the person who inflicted this on us and started a whole trend of "reality Programs" which are nothing of the sort. Die survivor Die.

Mark Burnett is who you want.

GILDA

Flying_Postman

08-26-2006, 09:35 AM

I never cared to watch Survivor before but now I will tune in to watch (I know I am falling for the gimmick) but I just have to see how this plays out. America is just too politically correct right now. The only way I would have a problem is if there are challenges that reinforces racial sterotypes ie "The angry black man", "The outsmarting Asian", "The hot blooded latino" etc and my hope is that this season would fuel more dialouge on race relations rather than making it such a taboo subject. :)

davids

08-26-2006, 10:06 AM

Will they ever grow tired of watching disgusting people munching bugs, swiming in pig guts and stabing each other in the back?

Reality tv was once Reel people a funny entertaing show. or from the fifties you asked for it, educational and entertaing. Or if you want to be entertained we had Candid Camera. Buster Keaton might have sneezed and have his tupe fall into his bowl of soup at the lunch counter. But we never had to watch him take a bath in pig crap to stop from being voted off the island.:evilangry

Forefinger

08-26-2006, 10:26 AM

They can do whatever they want, I'm still not going to watch. It got old for me after the 2nd season.

Shellhead

09-14-2006, 11:48 AM

titanfan

09-14-2006, 11:57 AM

Will they ever grow tired of watching disgusting people munching bugs, swiming in pig guts and stabing each other in the back?

Never! But prior to Survivor, my favorite shows were shows like Dallas and Melrose Place.

I do think Survivor has lost it's innocence and has become different than it was intentended to be. But it's still something I enjoy watching, even if it's not a watercooler show anymore. Mark Burnett actually pitched the show as a survival game, and not a game of alliances and backstabbing--but of course, it didn't turn out that way. (And ratings would probably have been a lot different otherwise)

superion

09-14-2006, 07:26 PM

Well I tuned into Survivor for the first time in about 4 to 5 years. Boy what a trainwreck this is going to be. Oh and the Black Guy gets it first.

spoon_jenkins

09-14-2006, 08:12 PM

Despite my concerns about the theme this season, I'm going to give it a try tonight. The "Cook Islands" aspect is also troubling, because the association with Darwin should not be mixed in with the already inflammatory racist premise of this season. Even so, I have enjoyed every season so far, and this one might be good, too. Besides, the racial element probably won't be much of a factor, given that the initial isolation of the teams will mean that people are getting voted out by other people of the same race. Only when the tribes mix or merge will race possibly become a divisive aspect of the game.
I'm not sure that the Cook Islands have any association with Charles Darwin. It was the Galapagos Islands where Darwin made his famous voyage aboard the H.M.S. Beagle.

I generally watch Survivor and I watched the first episode of this one. I thought it seemed okay. Although I'm not confident in Burnett's handling of race in some situations, I wasn't thinking of the doomsday scenario some people feared. It's possible to separate people by race and see how they react without endorsing it.

Unfortunately, if you do something like this, racist people are going to take stuff out of it no matter what. When you group people by race like that, some folks are going to joke a bit like some of the contestants did. I think some people will take jokes of contestants as confirmations of their own prejudices.

Chou Blaster

09-14-2006, 08:23 PM

I'm not sure that the Cook Islands have any association with Charles Darwin. It was the Galapagos Islands where Darwin made his famous voyage aboard the H.M.S. Beagle.

I generally watch Survivor and I watched the first episode of this one. I thought it seemed okay. Although I'm not confident in Burnett's handling of race in some situations, I wasn't thinking of the doomsday scenario some people feared. It's possible to separate people by race and see how they react without endorsing it.

Unfortunately, if you do something like this, racist people are going to take stuff out of it no matter what. When you group people by race like that, some folks are going to joke a bit like some of the contestants did. I think some people will take jokes of contestants as confirmations of their own prejudices.

Correct, Galpapgos is the Charles Darwin thing. (As he observed similiar animals, in different enviroments island to island.)

Now Cook islands; Only makr of History it got was a Captin Cook founded the islands, pisse doff the natives, and got killed for it. Cause he could not swim to the boat. (The crew abadoend him to his fate, to be spearded.)

xnef1025

09-14-2006, 08:29 PM

Not a bad first episode. I'm getting a "villian" vibe off Jonathan for some reason. I guess that's what happens when your first impression towards the other tribes is chicken thief. Cao Boi seems an odd fellow and should be interesting to watch. I'll also point and laugh tremendously at the first person who votes for him and spells it "Cowboy".

The challenge with the puzzle boats wasn't bad. Plenty of opportunities for the tribes to change positions during it.... too bad the Hiki(?) tribe sucked so bad at getting the boat together. Took away all the suspense.

Probably a bad move to get rid of Sekou this early. They were already at an arguable strength disadvantage as one of the tribes with only 2 guys.

I don't really seeing the racial divides playing too much of a role in game(exception being Cao Boi if his bad Asian jokes piss his tribe off enough). Once one tribe gets down to 3 they will probably merge to 2 tribes anyway. Seeing everyone adjust from a single(mostly) cultured tribe to a mixed tribe might be interesting for an episode or so, but after that, it'll be business as usual.

Conn Seanery

09-14-2006, 09:08 PM

Jonathan Penner (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor13/survivors/bio_jonathan.shtml) has been in TV, Movies (when I first saw him tonight I had a WTF moment)...what the hell is he doing there? Granted, he's pretty low on the celebrity food chain, I just can't believe the guy Elaine had the drunken hook-up with is on Survivor.

As expected, the race differences provided little in the way of tension. Some minor annoyances within tribes, but it's like Burnett said, they weren't going to be selecting hardcore racists for the game. I liked the way they made it a point to focus on the caucasian team last in every aspect of the show. Opening title roster lists, arrivals on the beach, etc...very subtle (not).

No real standouts yet, though Billy & Cao Boi seem likely to ruffle feathers.

Shellhead

09-14-2006, 09:14 PM

Thanks for the correction on Darwin and the islands, folks. I should have checked my facts before babbling about it.

As soon as I saw these four tribes contained five members each, I knew that gender politics were going to trump racial politics, at least initially. Tribal council proved that, at least for one tribe.

After gender, it looks like physical condition is shaping up to be a bigger issue than usual. Are fat people fat because they are lazy? Or do fat people just tire out more quickly? Or both? Either way, the first man out was also apparently (based on the limited footage we saw of the first three days) the fattest and laziest. And the previews show the chubby heavy metal guy in the hispanic tribe might be in danger of having his tribe throw a challenge just to oust him.

So far, age doesn't appear to be much of an issue, compared to every previous season of Survivor. That might be because this very racially diverse cast is one of the least diverse in terms of age.

Race doesn't seem to be much of an issue yet. We heard people in every tribe except the white one make self-conscious remarks about their team's race. After seeing the diverse backgrounds of the asian and hispanic team, I was slightly surprised to see that they had superior teamwork to the more culturally homogenous black and white teams.

A few individual cast members got my attention. I really like Cao Boi, but if he doesn't start working on his social skills, he's going home soon.

I don't like Flicka, because she seems like an incompetent flake, and I despise her teammate "Chicken Man." I nearly jumped to my feet and cheered when he got sent to Exile Island. I mean, a little thievery can be funny if you easily fess up to it like Rupert did a few seasons back. But Chicken Man is more of a weasel, casually rationalizing to the camera why he was entitled to the chicken and it was just a mistake anyway when he clearly knew what he was doing. I wouldn't trust him with a rubber chicken, and if his tribe is smart, they will dump him quickly.

The hispanic heavy metal musician was amusing, because he wanted to take charge but was quickly upstaged by his younger and more competent tribemates.

I think I'm going to enjoy this season, at least unless/until racism actually makes an appearance on the show. So far, that doesn't seem especially likely.

J. Robb

09-14-2006, 10:08 PM

I'm getting a "villian" vibe off Jonathan for some reason.
I got an "Alan Alda" vibe off of him, voice-wise anyways.

The race thing was interesting not in the division between teams, but within them. The Asian team especially seem kind of embarassed by Cai Boi's jokes about Asian stereotypes, and it looks like it only gets worse next week.

As for the first to go, Sekou seemed like he really didn't know the game very well. In Survivor, if you're going to take a leadership role, you had better perform, or you're gone. Too bad though, he seemed like he could have been interesting if he stuck around.

jwd

09-14-2006, 11:14 PM

Black Atom

09-15-2006, 12:00 AM

Aggie

09-15-2006, 08:06 AM

Race doesn't seem to be much of an issue yet. We heard people in every tribe except the white one make self-conscious remarks about their team's race. After seeing the diverse backgrounds of the asian and hispanic team, I was slightly surprised to see that they had superior teamwork to the more culturally homogenous black and white teams.

that's just it, that self consciousness is par for the course if you are apart of a marginalized group...it's practically innate because it's drilled into you from an early age and if you're not a member of a marginalized group, then you're conciously aware of trying not to do anything that will make you come off as a bigot...which is exactly what happened in the show...i'm not surprised by the teamwork of the hispanic and the asian american groups, because as a member of each group mentioned that they were familiar w/ an island environment...i think that helps...plus the asian tribe seem to be the fittest of the lot and that helps too...i think race will be the last unifier/divider in this season...gender will play a huge part and honestly...pretty people tend to stick together so watch out for them too...;)

TitoJones

09-15-2006, 01:30 PM

I think voting off the black dude was dumb.

At this stage of the game you have to drop the weakest link, not the person you like the least, and not because they have a penis and you don't.

Shellhead

09-15-2006, 02:22 PM

I think voting off the black dude was dumb.

At this stage of the game you have to drop the weakest link, not the person you like the least, and not because they have a penis and you don't.

I agree that Stephanie made a mistake, but I think I understand what she was thinking.

As everybody in her tribe noticed, Stephanie was the fifth wheel. Midway through the episode, I thought that she was at risk the first time her tribe went to council. But I should have paid attention when Jeff Probst noted the gender split when it came time to send someone to Exile Island. That meant that this tribe was split 2-2-1, not just 4-1. So that made Stephanie the pivotal voter this week.

Stephanie probably was a little hurt that the two women from NYC were bonding so easily. While she was hoping to fit in better, realistically she will always be on the outside of that relationship, because she doesn't have the same geographical background that those two ladies share. So when they asked her to oust one of the men, she leaped at the chance to feel like she was accepted by them. Plus, Stephanie was obviously frustrated at the big man's repeated and empty promises of fire, as well as his frequent rest breaks. So they voted the big guy out.

But guess what? Next time that tribe needs to vote somebody out, Stephanie is the easy pick. They can't afford to vote another man out, and Stephanie still won't be from New York City, so out she goes. If she had voted with the guys, they might have been more 50-50 between her and the other remaining lady, giving her some kind of chance that she currently lacks. At this point, Stephanie's only hope is that her tribe avoids council until a merge or other re-arrangement of the tribes. And that probably isn't happening soon, if this season wants to keep working that controversial race angle for awhile.

titanfan

09-15-2006, 02:47 PM

I liked it. I'm smart enough to know just because one team does bad that doesn't mean the entire race is more lazy or worse than all the other races.
Its 5 people out of millions and billions of other people. Every race has hard working people and there's lazy people. Good and bad , etc.

Me too. That said, I did find it amusing when we see some sort of stereotypes start to play themselves out. The Asian team kicked ass on the puzzle part of the challenge, the Black team had trouble in the water part of the challenge, etc.

Shellhead

09-15-2006, 02:53 PM

Me too. That said, I did find it amusing when we see some sort of stereotypes start to play themselves out. The Asian team kicked ass on the puzzle part of the challenge, the Black team had trouble in the water part of the challenge, etc.

I thought that the black team actually did great in the rowing part of the challenge. It did take them way too long to assemble the boat, and that might have been a specific leadership problem. If so, they solved that problem in tribal council.

Aggie

09-15-2006, 06:37 PM

Glaucon

09-16-2006, 08:58 AM

I think the girls of the African-American tribe did the right thing because now they have complete control of the tribe. They did not lose that challenge because of lack of strength, they lost because of lack of team work and problem solving skills - Sekou might not have been a very good leader. I was rooting for Sundra to go though because I liked Sekou and Nathan much more.

I have to say the tribe I like least right has got to be the white tribe. They seem to be the generic younger tribe.

My favourite right now is probabaly Cao Boi.

The producers said that many of the survivors this season were recruited (because of the minimal number of minorities that apply), so that means that many probably haven’t watched a lot of Survivor in the past. This looks like it shows next episode when Ozzy wants to throw the immunity to get Billy out. Never throw a challenge! That was proven on Pearl Islands, once your tribe throws the challenge, it gives the other tribe (or in this case tribes) momentum. Palau is a perfect of what can happen when you don’t throw the immunity.

TheRedFear

09-16-2006, 01:30 PM

I see alot of comments about how nothing good will come of this(not jsut on this thread but others) but something good already has.

People are talking about the show. People who havn't talked about the show in years suddenly give a crap again. People who've NEVER talked about the show(like me, until right now) are talking about the show.

It may be a cheap ploy to recapture the world's attention but it's clearly an effective one. From a buisness standpoint this was a rather brilliant maneuver on their part. If you are truly so offended by the idea, the best thing you can do, is stop feeding the hype. Don't talk about it anymore. And absolutely, don't watch it when it airs.

I won't be watching it. Not out of any sense of righteous indignation, but because Reality Television is a cancer on the airwaves and I hope one day it'll go away never to return. :) A futile hope I know, but a man can dream

Shellhead

09-18-2006, 11:33 AM

Comedians have been having fun with this season of Survivor. Mad TV did several "updates" on Survivor, only with their own heavily-stereotyped tribes. The white tribe looked like aryan skinheads. The black tribe complained about all the swimming challenges and asked when there was going to be a basketball
challenge. The hispanic tribe rapidly grew from 5 members to 17.

The funniest remark that I've heard so far came from David Letterman. He said something like this season of Survivor featured members of rival ethnic groups in fierce cutthroat competition... just like The View.

titanfan

09-18-2006, 11:57 AM

Comedians have been having fun with this season of Survivor.

I know me and my friends are also having fun with. We're multi-racial in our circle of friends and if anything this version of Survivor allows us to play up to our own over the top racial steretypes when watching and talking about this show.

Conn Seanery

09-18-2006, 07:07 PM

Mad TV did several "updates" on Survivor, only with their own heavily-stereotyped tribes.
The best part was the distribution of tools the teams would get for the fire-making competition. The South American team got flint, the Asian American team got matches, the African American team got water, and the Caucasians got a fire-starter kit (complete with instructional DVD).

Oh, and when Probst asks the rhetorical "Who will win Survivor Cook Islands", and lists every team except the black one (like they're not worth mentioning because they don't have a chance).

Funny stuff.

xnef1025

09-21-2006, 07:54 PM

OK.... tonights ep had me kind of WTF?

What was up with Adam's anti-floor rant? Is it so hard to believe that some folks might want to not sleep in dirt or mud? I love the Survivor editors for showing other tribes just incedentally installing their own floors with no drama :)

So Ozzy and JP think throwing challenges is a good strategy? Idiots. I'll be glad to see them both gone. Then the "I love you," thing. I thought it was strange at the time when he said it. Candice was obviously just giving the nice, "Aww, well we love you," cheer up thing to Billy and I figured 5 or 6 days in the elements just made him say the wrong thing. Suddenly he's at TC professing love at first sight?! I was totally like, "Now they have to get rid of him... but please don't!" Dumb move Billy. Nature boy would have been gone, but women hate stalkers more than know-it-alls. Candice better be praying she's not sitting to close at the reunion show or things might be a bit uncomfortable.... :p

J. Robb

09-21-2006, 10:02 PM

Wow, that was definitely a bizarre episode. First a tribe does the dumbest thing you can do- throw a challenge- and then Billy confesses his love for a woman on another tribe. That was hilarious, but in a way that you feel bad for laughing, I was embarassed for the guy.

And man, they have to make those Exile Island clues tougher!

Chou Blaster

09-22-2006, 04:14 PM

They ain't evne trying anymore.

And this Surivor is so stupid so far.

titanfan

09-22-2006, 05:04 PM

*sigh* this is what happens when you have more than 50% of the cast be recruited instead of grabbing from the pool of applicants. It's clear that a lot of these people haven't even watched Survivor and thus are making the same newbie mistakes we've seen in season's past.

I went from feeling sorry for Billy to agreeing that he was absolutely pathetic and understanding (from an emotional, not strategic) standpoint on why they wanted to get rid of him to feeling sorry for him and wanting him gone because he was way too emotional and naive to play this game.

Chou Blaster

09-28-2006, 06:29 PM

Tribes ar enow mixed up.

So far the women ar eproofing to be bette rplotter sthan the men (Naturaly.)

And Yul and the Korean woman. (One in yellow) Well got their own ALlaince gonig, as he found the Idol on Exile Island.

Edit; Becky's he rname.

And well Joh nis trying to pit them agiansit eahc other.

Becky's a target, but wlel her an dYul got osmething on, an dif the Idol coems inot paly, ohhh boy.

Shellhead

09-28-2006, 07:05 PM

I went from feeling sorry for Billy to agreeing that he was absolutely pathetic and understanding (from an emotional, not strategic) standpoint on why they wanted to get rid of him to feeling sorry for him and wanting him gone because he was way too emotional and naive to play this game.

Well said, that was how I was feeling about Billy. That Candice thing was both funny and sad, and Billy reminded me of one of my friends so it was a little painful to watch.

This latest episode was a lot of fun to watch. It's great that two wacky people like Cao Boi and Flicka could meet and become friends, because they are both such outcasts. And yet they have both reluctantly become members of the dominant alliance in their tribe. Yul has become one of my favorites this season, so it's a shame to see that he has teamed up with Jonathan the Chicken Man.

And it's a real damn shame to see the asians and whites team up against the blacks and the hispanics in that tribe. Nobody will admit to the racism, but it's there. Everybody is confiding in people of their own race, and then the asians teamed up with the caucasians. Sigh. Cao Boi may be right that Becky is a princess, and Cecilia definitely seemed like too competent a survivor to get sent home so early in the game.

The previews for next time seemed funny. Jonathan the Chicken Thief doesn't trust Cao Boi? Um, whatever, chicken thief. Still, it was brutal to see Cao Boi looting baby birds from the nest while the mother bird shrieked at him.

J. Robb

09-28-2006, 10:07 PM

And it's a real damn shame to see the asians and whites team up against the blacks and the hispanics in that tribe. Nobody will admit to the racism, but it's there. Everybody is confiding in people of their own race, and then the asians teamed up with the caucasians.
I don't think it's a race thing, it's just a team thing. The white and asian team had the numbers, and the majority almost always conspire against the minority on Survivor. The racial aspect is just a leftover of the initial tribe set-up.

Anyways, I was sad to see Cecilia go. I like Becky too, but of the two I would have preferred to see Becky go. Plus, I was hoping Becky would get the most votes because I was curious if Yul would have given her the idol.

xnef1025

09-29-2006, 05:58 AM

I don't think it's a race thing, it's just a team thing. The white and asian team had the numbers, and the majority almost always conspire against the minority on Survivor. The racial aspect is just a leftover of the initial tribe set-up.

Anyways, I was sad to see Cecilia go. I like Becky too, but of the two I would have preferred to see Becky go. Plus, I was hoping Becky would get the most votes because I was curious if Yul would have given her the idol.
I agree it's not a race thing. There just happened to be 2 groups of 3, vs a group of 2 and 1. Best strategy at this point is to stick with the majority if you have it.

I hope Jeff asks Becky at the reunion show if Yul had given her the idol for TC.

titanfan

09-29-2006, 08:33 AM

Yeah, I think it was just a numbers game. It was sad to see Cece get caught in that, it seemed like she could have been a good player.

If they really wanted to be controversial--when they mixed up tribes--they should have just let people pick teams and not make sure everyone was evenly distributed by race. That was an overly convoluted team mix-up and I think they wanted to be sure that it didn't come across looking racist. (I.e. if one tribe's members were all picked last)

Parvati was laughably painful at her flirting attempts last night. (She's lucky she's kind of hot) I wonder if she even realizes that half of the males on her tribe are gay.

Glaucon

09-29-2006, 09:38 AM

I was hoping for them to keep the tribes together for at least the forth episode, but I have to say that last nights episode was probably the best episode in a while.

The alliance between Yul Becky, Candice, and Jonathan seems to be really strong. I could not believe Jonathan and Yul convinced Cao Boi and Flicka. Brilliant move.

Parvati sure is hot, but her flirting is so obvious. She has the fakest smile I have ever seen.

Glad to see an African American male who can swim for a change. Nate kicked butt by catching that octopus.

Should be interesting to see how Ozzy reacts next episode. He seems like a good player, so he will probably try to weasel his way into White-Asian alliance. He might be able to get Cao Boi kicked off.

Shellhead

09-29-2006, 10:25 AM

Parvati was laughably painful at her flirting attempts last night. (She's lucky she's kind of hot) I wonder if she even realizes that half of the males on her tribe are gay.

I laughed out loud when she looked at Nate's octupus, or at least in that general direction and said, "That is a lot of meat!" Nate wasn't in that camera shot, but her eyes were looking downwards as she said it. She is kind of hot.

malephoenix

10-05-2006, 07:06 PM

Can I just say that I'm SO glad that JP got ousted tonight?

Immediately after the immunity challenge, I figured if Stephanie (sp?) was willing to say what she did, she should expect to be voted off. Not so much because it was "a moment of weakness" like they were saying, but because it was a politically stupid thing to say.

But when the females started talking aliance to take JP specifically out? I was all for it. I wasn't digging how he was portraying himself this episode. I didn't think the women were going to be able to pull it off with how Parvati likes to flirt, but when the votes were read, I was content. I don't understand how he was so surprised...

And how did Brad and Parvati vote? I missed that at the end. Anybody know?

Quarterwolf

10-05-2006, 08:29 PM

And how did Brad and Parvati vote? I missed that at the end. Anybody know?

Adam, Brad and Pavarti voted out JP. Hahaha. Never thought Adam would betray him but could this be payback for them throwing the challenge that cost them Billy?

J. Robb

10-05-2006, 11:02 PM

Great to see JP go. I love that the team that threw a challenge have now lost three members in a row. I hope Ozzy goes next week.

Shellhead

10-06-2006, 08:34 AM

Great to see JP go. I love that the team that threw a challenge have now lost three members in a row. I hope Ozzy goes next week.

Ozzy deserves another chance. I'm sure he regrets throwing that challenge by now. He's actually a pretty valuable tribe member right now. He is catching a lot of fish, and he played a decisive role in both challenges last night with that running through the shallows technique.

DDM

10-06-2006, 09:16 AM

JP was great eye candy. I wished he stayed longer. However, I am not suprised he was voted off because the team has no leadership, yet JP put himself out there among his tribe mates as a powerful alpha male rival. His manipulative behavior may have alos got the best of him sent packing. JP's arrogance in believing he would not be voted off may have got him voted off as well. He believed himself to be indespensable. He was not. I could tell the way the show is edited that JP might be voted off last night...

Ozzy does not need to be voted off; he is key member in winning the challenges.

J. Robb

10-13-2006, 04:26 PM

I noticed no one has commented on the latest episode, but that doesn't really surprise me because it was one of those "don't really care who goes" shows. Twenty seems to be too many players, we just haven't got to know very many of them, so we don't have much interest invested. I think 18 should be the max, and I'd love for them to go with three tribes of six, and actually stick with them to the merge.

The good part of last night's show was the challenges. The balance one was very close and fun to watch, and I was happy to see they brought back the strength challenge from "Pearl Islands" (or at least similar to it) that was one of my favourites.

DDM

10-13-2006, 04:51 PM

The best thing about last night's show when 3 people from the rival tribe came upon the other tribe's island. It was not out hate or malice to "find" the other tribe, but simply to explore the other island because their island did not have much to offer in resources.

Faded

10-13-2006, 09:13 PM

Does anyone think that there was at least one gay person in each (original) tribe?

Brad, JP, Sekou?

DDM

10-20-2006, 11:32 AM

Cai Boi got booted off. He deserved it in a way because he gave the whole "Voodoo" plan away at tribal council! Does he think before he opens his mouth?

I'm not sure of the kidnapped tribe member thing since the other team may well take one of the other tribe's team member at some point.

The losing tribe--oddly with all the athletic looking people--need to find some direction, a leader or two.

Corrina

10-20-2006, 12:05 PM

Is it me, or are all these people pretty dull? I can't say there's one player who stands out right now.

EZMOHR

10-20-2006, 12:17 PM

I think Christina the Cop was a good physical player for an older lady....but all the "kids" on the team couldn't deal with an older person telling them when things needed to be done. And, you can't tell me the people at tribal council didn't see Candace keep saying "I love you" to the Douche. Both tribes need to nip these two asses in the bud.

Shellhead

10-20-2006, 12:29 PM

Is it me, or are all these people pretty dull? I can't say there's one player who stands out right now.

Cao Boi is gone, and he was the most vivid personlity this season.

But there are others who stand out, at least to me:

Flicka, the wacky roller girl with the expressive eyebrows.

Nathan, the big guy with the dreadlocks who doesn't seem to have a strategy but is a very effective octupus hunter.

Jonathan, the articulate C-list actor with the piercing blue eyes and shifty mannerisms.

Parvati, the flirtatious boxer chick.

Ozzy, the guy with the curly mane and sharp wits. He went from next on the chopping block to valuable team member in just days.

DDM

10-20-2006, 12:53 PM

Is it me, or are all these people pretty dull? I can't say there's one player who stands out right now.

Jonathan is really good at working within the group dynamic; however, he may be too good...

Ozzy is a valuable team member because he is good at the physical challenges & he provides his tribe with food. He also knows much about plants & mushrooms to use. He's one of the most resourceful members of all.

Flicka is doing a good job being the deciding vote, but she can't keep this up for long or she may well be the one voted off.

Cao Boi is a bit too free-spirited to the point he alienated himself from his own tribe.

All of the althetic people in the other tribe are nice to look at, but--as far as standout personalities--they have none. The girl who flirts with all the guys is just too transparent. I think they are voting off the wrong people too. JP deserved to stay a little longer. All the other guys are not alpha males, although JP is gone!

DDM

11-03-2006, 05:31 PM

I really thought Jonathan was going to be voted off, yet Flicka got the axe instead. I'm glad the group realized voting off Ozzy would be suicide for their group on challenges...

Faded

11-03-2006, 06:37 PM

Man...Jonathan needs to go. I'm wating for Yul and Becky to screw up and screw over their own alliance. The "outcasts" are letting them take the game and Sundra is really foolish if she doesn't realize she's the fifth wheel.

I hope Ozzy at least makes it to the final merge. At first he was annoying and over-confident, but I've really come to enjoy him the most.

titanfan

11-03-2006, 06:42 PM

I'm wating for Yul and Becky to screw up and screw over their own alliance. The "outcasts" are letting them take the game and Sundra is really foolish if she doesn't realize she's the fifth wheel.

I don't think Yul and Becky will. Right now, I seem them as the pair in control of the game. I think Sundra knows, but she's content to fly under the radar now. She may be thinking that eventually her alliance will turn on Jonathan and give her the opportunity to improve her position.

J. Robb

11-03-2006, 11:59 PM

My problem with this week's show was the two challenges seemed really similar. Both were the usual "swim out and collect puzzle pieces" type. I usually really like the cool challenges on "Survivor", but they were kind of dull and repetitive this episode.

malephoenix

11-04-2006, 01:33 AM

J. Robb

11-09-2006, 10:05 PM

Well, that was a crazy episode. Jonathan made one of the dumbest moves in Survivor history (and I'm sure realized it a split second too late), but managed to survive tribal council. And the jury started early! Will it be a ten person jury? Or maybe nine person and have three finalists? Hmm...

The boat challenge was pretty cool and I liked Yul figuring out a little cheat. I'm surprised the other tribe didn't figure out the same thing, but maybe it wasn't as obvious as it looked on TV.

Shellhead

11-10-2006, 08:38 AM

DDM

11-10-2006, 12:49 PM

Brad made a big mistake at Tribal Council when he said he did not trust anyone; while this may be the truth, he did not have to says so. As a result, instead of voting off Jonathan, Brad got the boot.

Jonathan did make a big mistake in the "mutiny." However, it is a nice surprise he did not get voted off this week.

J. Robb

11-10-2006, 03:39 PM

I was confused by the jury thing, too. I'm guessing three finalists and nine jurors, to avoid a tie.
There could still be tie, everyone gets three votes, or two people get four. Three finalists would be cool though, maybe they've figured out a way to make it work.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 09:05 AM

The ending was a shocker. I can't remember this ever happening before on Survivor. I was expecting voting chaos, but it looked like the white folks already had a strategy mapped out, and this just took them one step farther along.

If there is a merger at all, I expect it to happen after the next tribal council, which will hopefully finally result in Jonathan getting ousted. I admire the work ethic that he has displayed recently, but he is still too obviously tricky to get any farther in this game. At this point, he is the odd man out, as the rest of his current tribe consists of two couples, more or less. It would be surprising and disappointing if Nate got voted out instead, as that would seem fairly racist.

Speaking of racist, I admit that I was kind of happy that Aitu won that reward challenge, and not just because I think that Ozzy and Yul are great. It would have been faintly disturbing to me to see the islanders carrying white folks to the big feast, and it was somehow okay with me to see the minority tribe getting carried instead. Black, asian and latino, they all had approximately the same skin color as the locals.

I'm not sure that Ozzy's strategy of picking on Mutiny Girl was wise. After a merge, they might have had an easier time of pulling their old tribe back together if they had exiled Nate or that big white kid. On the other hand, if Nate survives going into the merger, he might feel more comfortable with Aitu than with the aryan alliance.

The Foreigner

11-17-2006, 09:34 AM

Gah! I missed the first fifteen minutes, and my VCR tape was full and ejected during the opening credits, so I missed the whole mutiny thing. The fallout was pretty interesting, and it worked out great for Ozzy. That little tribe has two of the best Survivors in this game, Yul and Ozzy, so it's no surprise that they won both challenges last night.

I agree that Jonathan made a dumb move, and although I didn't see him make the decision, it struck me as racist thing to do, bailing on his minority
teammates so he could be in the same tribe as the other three white people still in the game.

It was a little surprising that Brad got the boot, but that tribe has had a pattern of voting people out for stupid reasons involving personality instead of making strategic moves. I can understand Nathan worrying about the asian tribe being strong after merger... but what about the four white people now comprising more than 50% of his current tribe? And was it smart to keep around the chicken thief that he sent to Exile Island at the beginning of this season?

I was confused by the jury thing, too. I'm guessing three finalists and nine jurors, to avoid a tie.

Hmm, it seems you're trying to find racism where there is none.

Candace jumped tribes because she has a thing for Adam, or as she says "wanted to be with her friends." Basically, she's not nearly as good of a player as she's seemed to be so far in the game (Especially because everyone on the other tribe is already noticing that they have the hots for one another).

Johnathan followed her because he thinks that he and Candace have a good alliance, and that if he goes to the other tribe, they'll have the numbers for the merge. Basically, he made a stupid decision, and is completely ignorant to the fact that Candace doesn't trust him at all and doesn't care about him. Bottom line, though, is that race played no part in their decisions.

And I wasn't surprised at all that Brad got the boot-- Their team was right in voting him off, because they're thinking ahead to the merge.

If there is a merge, there's no way the other team is going to take back Johnathan, who betrayed them. Brad, on the other hand, does not appear to be too loyal either (He said after the merge it's "every man for himself," plus at tribal council he pointed out the "doesn't trust everyone"), so strategically it makes much more sense to lose a wild card like Brad, and keep a guy like Johnathan who has no choice but to stay loyal to his new tribe-- They can simply keep him around as an extra vote for as long as they need him.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 09:59 AM

Johnathan followed her because he thinks that he and Candace have a good alliance, and that if he goes to the other tribe, they'll have the numbers for the merge. Basically, he made a stupid decision, and is completely ignorant to the fact that Candace doesn't trust him at all and doesn't care about him. Bottom line, though, is that race played no part in their decisions.

And I wasn't surprised at all that Brad got the boot-- Their team was right in voting him off, because they're thinking ahead to the merge.

If there is a merge, there's no way the other team is going to take back Johnathan, who betrayed them. Brad, on the other hand, does not appear to be too loyal either (He said after the merge it's "every man for himself," plus at tribal council he pointed out the "doesn't trust everyone"), so strategically it makes much more sense to lose a wild card like Brad, and keep a guy like Johnathan who has no choice but to stay loyal to his new tribe-- They can simply keep him around as an extra vote for as long as they need him.

I agree with your points regarding Candace and Adam, but Jonathan seemed to spend more time planning strategy with Yul than with Candace, so when he followed Candace, it looked like he suddenly realized that he would be the last white man in Aitu and got scared. He saw all that all the other white people would be in a different tribe and wanted to be with them.

And I agree that Brad may have seemed a little untrustworthy by his remarks, but getting voted out proved that he was right to not trust them. They proved that he was right, although it could have been a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But look at why they voted other people out of that tribe: two people got voted out for being too bossy and one got voted out for wishing that she could eat some better food. Are those good, competitive reasons for booting people out of the tribe, or are those the kinds of decisions that have weakened them so that they lost all these recent challenges?

Next week, it looks like Jonathan starts yelling at them for being so lazy in camp, so I guess he will be the next one out so they can catch up on their sleep.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 10:02 AM

titanfan

11-17-2006, 10:08 AM

Btw, here is a general question about Survivor that has been bothering since the early seasons: why are most of the 20-something Survivors so lazy? They have the most energy, but they sleep in late, and shuffle around doing jack in camp. Can we blame their overly permissive baby boomer parents for this sloth?

Eh, for every 20-something lazy Survivor you have Ozzy or Yul who certainly aren't lazy. Are we even sure that they aren't lazy and the older generation aren't workaholics? It could be my youth talking, but I know a lot of people who work just for the sake of working.

Candace and Jonathan made a seemingly stupid move but manage to work their way into a power position of their current tribe. While I still say they have no chance of winning, I can't really criticize their gameplay anymore.

I'm surprised that there aren't going to be more "racism" charges now that we basically have the caucasian tribe (and Nate) vs. a minority tribe.

I bet there's a merge next week--otherwise there's no way Yul would tell Ozzy he has the hidden immunity idol. If Aitu is smart, they'll postpone revenge on Candace to take out Nate or Adam next week.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 11:12 AM

Eh, for every 20-something lazy Survivor you have Ozzy or Yul who certainly aren't lazy. Are we even sure that they aren't lazy and the older generation aren't workaholics? It could be my youth talking, but I know a lot of people who work just for the sake of working.

It isn't work for the sake of working when people need to go hunting, fishing or foraging for every meal. It isn't work for the sake of working when you need to fetch water from a distant well and then boil it before you can safely drink it. And it isn't work for the sake of working when you need to gather wood to build shelters or fuel fires.

Ozzy and Yul are great. But the other tribe is mostly 20-somethings, and only Jonathan is doing any work these days, plus they voted out that cop when she tried to get them motivated and working.

Some seasons, the lazy young people factor is big. Other times, it isn't.

Season 2: Nick totally disappointed me. He was ex-military and working through law school, but totally worthless in camp. He spent most of the time laying around, except for that time when he built himself a bench to sit on. The bitch queen Jerri and her sidekick Amber spent long hours working on their suntans and scheming against people, but didn't do any work at all.

Season 3: One tribe had a power struggle between the hard-working older members like Frank, and the lazy younger members like Silas and Lindsay.

Season 4: Big-breasted Sarah was useless eye candy, and even let her teammates carry her around at one point.

Season 6: In the Amazon, the women's tribe quickly broke into young versus old factions, with the young women spending most of their time chatting and grooming and washing their lingerie, while the older women did the fire-building, food gathering and cooking.

Survivor All-Stars doesn't count, because nearly everybody played fairly hard.

Survivor 10-11: I lost interest in the show around this time and missed at least half the episodes.

Season 12: This season, it was blatant, because the tribes were divided up by gender and *age*. The young women didn't have a shelter built after their first few days, because they just wandered around and couldn't decide on a campsite. The young men quickly built a fragile shelter that fell apart the first time there was a storm, and spent too much time tossing around a football on the beach.

titanfan

11-17-2006, 11:31 AM

It isn't work for the sake of working when people need to go hunting, fishing or foraging for every meal. It isn't work for the sake of working when you need to fetch water from a distant well and then boil it before you can safely drink it. And it isn't work for the sake of working when you need to gather wood to build shelters or fuel fires.

Yes, but that's not all they're doing all the time.

Season 3: One tribe had a power struggle between the hard-working older members like Frank, and the lazy younger members like Silas and Lindsay.

Imho, Season 3 was the best example of worthless old people who were working for the simple sake of working and made baseless accusations of another tribe mates being lazy. Just because someone isn't using as much energy as you does not make them lazy. To this day, the Geritol alliance is one of the alliances I hate the most in Survivor history. (With the exeption of Teresa)

I actually think the shelter thing is a good example. It's always the older people who insist upon the raised floors or thatched roofs, etc. Is wasting all that energy really necesary? Most of the time, shelters are unpermanent in this game. It's absurd to waste too much time building that good of a shelter.

If the workaholics would spend less time whining, and more time actually playing the social game--maybe they wouldn't always find themselves as Outsiders. In a lot of the cases, most of the tribal providers are forced into that role because they are on the outs. And they were on the outs because they were working when they should have been socializing. I honestly think that for a lot of the older generation, that working is the way they socialize and bond. For the younger group--it isn't.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 12:17 PM

I actually think the shelter thing is a good example. It's always the older people who insist upon the raised floors or thatched roofs, etc. Is wasting all that energy really necesary? Most of the time, shelters are unpermanent in this game. It's absurd to waste too much time building that good of a shelter.

If the workaholics would spend less time whining, and more time actually playing the social game--maybe they wouldn't always find themselves as Outsiders. In a lot of the cases, most of the tribal providers are forced into that role because they are on the outs. And they were on the outs because they were working when they should have been socializing. I honestly think that for a lot of the older generation, that working is the way they socialize and bond. For the younger group--it isn't.

Raised floors reduce insect bites, and hard ground can get chilly some seasons. Thatched roofs are really important when it rains. Getting completely soaked when the wind is blowing hard can take a serious physical toll going into the next physical challenge. Even homeless people have enough sense to try to get out of the rain. A normal season of Survivor is about six weeks long, far too long to safely sleep out in the open.

Only 5 twenty-somethings have won Survivor. Let's look at their social game. Ethan (27) was in a good alliance, but became completely paranoid and rarely talked to people near the end. Jenna (21) was pretty and knew how to use it to her advantage. She had the most machiavellian player in the history of the game wrapped around her finger. Sandra (29) only had one strategy, "I will help you vote out anybody "as long as it ain't me." Amber (25) hooked up with another extremely devious Rob, and their alliance of two carried both of them to the final vote. Aras (24) somehow to the end with a strong alliance despite his obnoxious personality. In summary, two got by with their looks and the other didn't do anything impressive in terms of a social game.

Five winners were in their 30's. Richard (39) invented the alliance in this game. Vecepia (36) avoided elimination by being very quiet and very pleasant. Brian (34) ran the tightest social game in Survivor history, manipulating his tribe like a master puppeteer. Chris (34) managed to survive as the only man amongst the last 7 contestants, despite being targeted for elimination by the lesbian leader of the female tribe. Danni (30) didn't do anything particularly memorable, but she was the former Miss Kansas. In summary, two of them didn't do anything special, but three of them played a very impressive social game.

Two winners were in their 40's. Tina (40) played a good social game, manipulating physical threat Colby into betraying his original allies and then turning on his friend Keith just before the finals. Tom (41) played the perfect physical game, winning an astounding number of challenges while dealing with his tribemates in a direct and honest manner.

titanfan

11-17-2006, 01:05 PM

And you'll notice that none of the older winners got caught up in whining about XXX was lazy. They understood the social aspect of the game--which is why they won. :)

I understand the long term reason for raised floors/roofs, etc. But to me, those are considered luxuries, especially pre-merge. Nothing worse than spending all that time on a shelter only to get stuck moving to another tribe.

I'm not saying that there have been no worthless young people either. There have been contestants that have been legitimately lazy. (It's hard to argue against Marquesas Sarah or Palau Katie for example) But I think as this conversation shows, there is definitely a lack of priorities in terms of what they think is important when playing this game.

DDM

11-17-2006, 01:17 PM

The ending was a shocker. I can't remember this ever happening before on Survivor. I was expecting voting chaos, but it looked like the white folks already had a strategy mapped out, and this just took them one step farther along.

I think it's why the producers decided to vote 2 people off instead of 1: It has never been done before. The tribe was thinking possibly that the note is just a catalyst for the inevitable merge. Enough of the people from the tribe have watched past Survivor episodes that a pattern emerges. The producers want to break the pattern & start a new one.

I'm not surprised the two women were voted off. Jonathan was saved again, although he may be wearing thin on his tribemates by the next episode. The tribe is tired of losing; however, this same tribe refuses to work as a team.

Ozzy's tribe acts as a unified group; they encourage each other & exploit their own strengths. Ozzy & Yul are the real power players for their tribe though...

I think Jonathan needs to go Exile Island rather than Candice.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 01:32 PM

I'm not saying that there have been no worthless young people either. There have been contestants that have been legitimately lazy. (It's hard to argue against Marquesas Sarah or Palau Katie for example) But I think as this conversation shows, there is definitely a lack of priorities in terms of what they think is important when playing this game.

That is a good point about the legitimately lazy, in that they tended to not even have a social game.

Btw, while assembling some facts for my previous posts, I found some interesting trivia. Two of the twelve winners are currently in prison. Survivor season four was originally going to be held in Jordan, but the producers changed their mind after 9/11. Winners Tina, Ethan, Brian, Tom and Sandra never got voted against until the final jury. Aras won last season despite receiving 9 votes against him in various tribal councils before the final jury.

J. Robb

11-17-2006, 03:20 PM

I was only semi-surprised by the ending. What I thought might happen is: the person voted out opens the bottle, the message reads "Choose one person to take with you." So I saw the double elimination coming, I was just hoping for an evil twist to it.

I hope Nate doesn't still think Jonathan is still next to go in his tribe. Adam controls Candice and Candice controls Jonathan, so I don't think either of them will want to part with their puppet too soon. Nate's going to need a new plan if he wants to make it to the final four.

I'd love to see the hidden idol help turn the tide. It's a longshot, because the other tribe must suspect Yul has it, but it could be cool if it is used well.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 03:25 PM

I was only semi-surprised by the ending. What I thought might happen is: the person voted out opens the bottle, the message reads "Choose one person to take with you." So I saw the double elimination coming, I was just hoping for an evil twist to it.

There was a boot camp reality tv show a few years ago that used that type of double elimination nearly every episode.

malephoenix

11-17-2006, 05:44 PM

The ending sure shocked me. I had to record it and I only got a chance to watch it just now. I was amazed - and I was sure that with a last-second vote like that, that Jonathan was on his way out. There was no time to strategize, and they'd made it clear enough that no one trusts him, so I wasn't expecting Jenny to go.

What I thought might happen is: the person voted out opens the bottle, the message reads "Choose one person to take with you." So I saw the double elimination coming, I was just hoping for an evil twist to it.

That would have been a REAL twist. The person just voted out wouldn't take out the "next in line." Their feelings would probably lead them to take out the one they had the most problems with. (I think that if that had happened, Rebekah (<--sp?) wouldn't have chosen Jenny, but rather Adam or Jonathan.

However, that seems to go from "keeping the game fresh and w/ surprising twists" to "screwing the players over." At least this way, there's a vote, and it's up to the whole tribe. It'd be really hard to rationalize that it would be anything even remotely just, as it would go from being in the hands of the tribe (the voters for voting and the person getting ousted, according to the way they've played the game) to one person's knee-jerk reaction.

Two of the twelve winners are currently in prison.

Who and why?

I agree with your points regarding Candace and Adam, but Jonathan seemed to spend more time planning strategy with Yul than with Candace, so when he followed Candace, it looked like he suddenly realized that he would be the last white man in Aitu and got scared. He saw all that all the other white people would be in a different tribe and wanted to be with them.

I think Jonathan was strategizing more with Yul b/c he thought that it was a given that he was in good with Candace. His decision process, I doubt really consciously centered on color. It seems from what they've aired of his personality that it was more about "What can get me the farthest?" He seems to think he's in best with Candace. The offer for Mutiny came as a shock to all; and they only had a ten-second window (after a few seconds of explanation), so there wasn't much time for thinking things out very much. Candace wanted to be with Adam and with just a couple seconds left, Jonathan followed, thinking his closest game partner was leaving.

Shellhead

11-17-2006, 09:48 PM

malephoenix

11-17-2006, 10:12 PM

As for the inmates, Richard, the original winner and the inventor of the Survivor alliance, is in prison for tax evasion, because he failed to pay taxes on his winnings. Brian, the puppetmaster from season 4, is in prison for cruelty to animals. He shot a puppy with an arrow.

Haven't looked up Richard's stuff, yet. But I saw this for (this article says) season 5 winner, Brian, and explains that he's a former porn star. (Married to a former porn star, which struck me as kinda sad. I know at first thought, everyone would be like "Wow. To marry a porn actress!..." but after I thought about it a minute, I realized that it would make sex so much less valued in the marriage.)

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/survivor-thailand-winner-brian-heidik-arrested-for-shooting-puppy-4210.php

Faded

11-18-2006, 06:58 PM

Brad <3 JP...maybe! (www.realitytvblurred.com)

The show is really starting to pick up. Ozzy is right, its a lot more fun when there is an underdog that is kicking arse.

The two vote outs were really predictable though. I mean the twist was exciting, but there was no way it wasn't going to be Jenny after Rebecca. Soon its going to be the original Raro tribe against everyone else. They've really been foolish NOT seeing how blatant and transparent Candace and Jonathan's mutiny was and how ANY other ally would be dropped to the wayside until the were the last ones standing.

I can only hope there won't be a merge for several weeks so Ozzy, Yul, Becky, and Sundra can continue to win and pick them off one by one (or two by two, however you want it Jeff!)

spoon_jenkins

11-18-2006, 07:18 PM

In hindsight, Jenny may have been lackluster in the challenges. That last challenge that she was in, she got confused about the direction and slowed Jonathan down by arguing with him.
No, Jonathan was the one that confused the direction. Jonathan kept repeating a different direction than the one Jeff gave them, and Candace had to correct him by yelling the correct direction from over on the mat. I rewatched the video on the CBS website, so I know it was Jonathan.

Anyways, I really like the core four remaining at Aitu. I didn't like Ozzy that much in some of the episodes, but now I even like him.

malephoenix

11-18-2006, 08:24 PM

Brad <3 JP...maybe! (www.realitytvblurred.com)
What's that link supposed to go to?

o1pickleboy

11-18-2006, 09:27 PM

I did like the twist. Namely because of the surprise and no strambling. Just straight up voting with no one else knowing who you are voting for. If they could do this more often it would be great.

My predictions is a merge next episode. With Yul using the immuntiy idol to vote off Candice. Then it will be equal at 4 vs 4.

My Jury prediction is that each one of the final three will be able to remove a person from the jury.

J. Robb

11-23-2006, 10:50 PM

The Foreigner

11-24-2006, 05:33 AM

Well, I had a bad feeling about Nate's chances, and turns out I was right. Whether or not Jonathan is really a traitor (again) or not depends on how much he tried to warn his teammates about the possibility of Yul having the immunity idol. From the editing, the old Raro tribe just looked kind of dumb, assuming that Yul didn't have it despite knowing he's a brainiac genius, and Jonathan was probably smart to bail on them.

The "underdogs" don't seem to be underdogs anymore, they're set as long as Jonathan doesn't do anymore flipping. He probably should, though. He has nothing to lose and playing the middle, appealing to the side who needs his vote and voting out members of both sides is probably his best chance now.

Good points. This episode was fan-friggin-tastic. Johnathan is a hoot to watch as he flops back and forth (Although in the end there's no way anybody is going to vote for him).

I was sad to Nate go, but it made sense because he was by far the biggest threat to Yul and company. And allowing Johnathan to choose who they voted off was a smart ploy to pull him to their side. Not to mention, Adam is a complete wuss-- He drops out of the immunity challenge after 9 minutes? Come on. He looks buff, but if you look back he's totally sucked in all of the challenges. Ozzy kicks his ass up and down the beach.

I was afraid at first that Yul screwed himself by revealing the idol to Johnathan, but Johnathan was certainly correct in believing that aligning yourself with whoever has the idol is the smartest way to go-- Now he's in the majority alliance and the idol hasn't even come into play yet. I'm curious if Yul will keep his promise and take Johnathan to the final two (As I mentioned before, Johnathan is by far the smartest choice to take to the end). Although risky, in the end it was a smart plan that pushed this new alliance into the majority.

Next week looks like a fun one. The reactions to Johnathan's second betrayal should be priceless.

Rasputin

11-24-2006, 07:22 AM

Great episode!

Nate has no reason to be pissed at Jonathan, but at himself. He said that he didn't trust the man since he abandoned his old team, but then agreed to vote out three people after that. They had ample opportunity to boot Jonathan but didn't.

Can't wait to see the fallout from this one. I am guessing now that Candice will go next since the power is back in Aitu's hands.

Zero Hunter

11-24-2006, 11:42 AM

As much as a snake as Jonathon can be he really had no choice. He knew that if he didn't flip he was the one going home. He did try to warn the others and lead them off of Yul as a choice but none of them were hearing it. I kinda thought Jonathon might vote some oddball choice line Sundra just to force Yul to use the idol anyway and get it out of play, but all that really would have done is pissed off everyone instead of just half of them.

Kahnno6

11-24-2006, 12:07 PM

titanfan

11-24-2006, 02:21 PM

Nate has no reason to be pissed at Jonathan, but at himself. He said that he didn't trust the man since he abandoned his old team, but then agreed to vote out three people after that. They had ample opportunity to boot Jonathan but didn't.

Agreed. I felt little sympathy for Nate in this episode. He was quite simply the most gossipy person on his tribe. I'm not sure if it was his strategy for not, but he had a tendency to twist someone's innocent words into a reason to vote someone out for. He had every opportunity to boot Jonathan, but opted for Brad instead. In the end, Nate should have followed his first instincts.

Last night's episode was great! I think the quality of play has been pretty poor this season, but the entertainment value is definitely up because of it.

J. Robb

11-24-2006, 02:59 PM

The thing that struck me is that Yule didn't really outsmart Raro. He didn't need Jonathan to get rid of Nate. If he got voted out, the person with the second highest number of votes would have been gone - that would have been Nate.

Yule essentially just pulled one over on everyone, protecting his own immunity.
Yup, Jonathan could have got rid of Nate without the "betrayal" just by voting for Yul. And it would have taken the hidden idol out of play.

o1pickleboy

11-24-2006, 03:24 PM

Yup, Jonathan could have got rid of Nate without the "betrayal" just by voting for Yul. And it would have taken the hidden idol out of play.

but then he would have been in a 4vs4 split with no certainy of being in the majority after that.

titanfan

11-24-2006, 03:30 PM

but then he would have been in a 4vs4 split with no certainy of being in the majority after that.

It would be a riskier play for sure, especially because Aitu probably would target him next, but at the very least, his allliance would be in a position where they were forced to need him. Currently, he traded a (probable) 5th place for another (probable) 5th place.

The Foreigner

11-24-2006, 04:28 PM

It would be a riskier play for sure, especially because Aitu probably would target him next, but at the very least, his allliance would be in a position where they were forced to need him. Currently, he traded a (probable) 5th place for another (probable) 5th place.

The difference being, by going back with Aitu, Yul had said he wants to take Johnathan to the final two.

Smart for Yul, because nobody likes Johnathan; but I don't think there's anybody else left on the show that is smart enough to do the same thing. It seems alligning himself with Yul was the best option-- The fact that he still has the hidden immunity idol is an extra plus.

Ottmeister X

11-24-2006, 04:45 PM

This seems to be one of the better seasons in terms of surprising votes. As much as Jonathan can be considered a snake, I like him. The young group is going to be pissed at him next week, acting like their feelings were hurt, but it's a karma payback for all of the hooting and hollering they were doing about how Jonathan was in their back pocket. He did the right thing because they were going to vote him off anyhow.

This is another Survivor season that sterotypes young people as being lazy. It happens often enough, can't be too much of a coincidence, can it? Obviously, not all young people are going to be lazy. I've worked with enough of them though to know it's not too far off. Hey, I'll admit I'm probably more lazy than my grandfathers and my father, but the generation below me is definitely more lazy than I am. I like Pavrati, but I can't wait to see Adam and Candace get the heave-ho.

Not to harsh on people younger than me too much, that Ozzy guy kicks butt.

Gilda Dent

11-24-2006, 05:35 PM

malephoenix

11-24-2006, 05:36 PM

I just got to see the episode, and I agree with what everyone is saying. Nate had no reason to be upset, and none of the Raro tribe has any reason to be mad at him next episode. They were all fine talking about how much they were using him, but now that they can't control him any more, they're gonna get all whiny about it?

Priceless glimpse from next episode: Candace, paraphrased: "Since when do you not share? That's not nice."

Well, he's gonna be treated better by them than by you! What did you THINK was gonna happen? It makes complete sense for him to have done this. It's his goal to win, y'know? It's not his goal to make sure Adam and Candace win, which is what you were trying to do to him. Man, I can't stand her. She's had NO use at all. She's only eye candy. She sucks at challenges - almost as much as her little boyfriend does - and the two of them plus Parvati have absolutely no strategic sense. I've so been waiting for this to happen to that lazy, naive Raro tribe.

But to make such clear lines drawn like they showed next episode: Jonathan (he probably did the fishing, right?) getting food for Aitu, and the three Lazies not eating... Has this every happened in the final merge before? Is this new ground?

malephoenix

11-24-2006, 05:42 PM

Johnathan did have another choice to stay with his new tribe. He could have outright told them that Yul has the immunity idol and steered the voting towards one of the women instead. This would put him in a serious hole with the others, but it was another option.

True that this concept would have been another option. But after he tried to get them to even *consider* Yul had the hidden immunity and they didn't take the time to mull it over, he made the right move. (As far as what's best for him.)

Come to think of it, if he *had* stayed and tried to work it out with the Lazies, I would have thought he had even less sense than they did. Why stay with the tribe that's treating you so badly? At least Aitu is being honest about it - we need you b/c if we don't have you, we're screwed.

And taking him to the final two is a great idea, but I can't imagine how that would go down in the final five when it's the four Aitus and Jonathan. How are the Aitus going to vote out one of their own instead of him?

And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't person #2 still get a boatload of cash? Not a million, but I'd be more than happy being the second guy.

Gilda Dent

11-24-2006, 05:45 PM

True that this concept would have been another option. But after he tried to get them to even *consider* Yul had the hidden immunity and they didn't take the time to mull it over, he made the right move. (As far as what's best for him.)

Come to think of it, if he *had* stayed and tried to work it out with the Lazies, I would have thought he had even less sense than they did. Why stay with the tribe that's treating you so badly? At least Aitu is being honest about it - we need you b/c if we don't have you, we're screwed.

And taking him to the final two is a great idea, but I can't imagine how that would go down in the final five when it's the four Aitus and Jonathan. How are the Aitus going to vote out one of their own instead of him?

And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't person #2 still get a boatload of cash? Not a million, but I'd be more than happy being the second guy.

Second place gets $100,000.

titanfan

11-24-2006, 08:38 PM

But to make such clear lines drawn like they showed next episode: Jonathan (he probably did the fishing, right?) getting food for Aitu, and the three Lazies not eating... Has this every happened in the final merge before? Is this new ground?

I think it might be. Usually the "lazy" tribe is in control post-merge, so the people who are left are forced to work and share.

TitoJones

11-24-2006, 08:49 PM

I was rooting for Nate also, but he has no one to blame but himself. He should of gotten rid of Johnathan the minute he switched tribes. They still had the numbers to get rid of Brad later.

Now that he's gone, I'm rooting for Yul or Ozzy.

o1pickleboy

11-25-2006, 12:58 AM

Second place gets $100,000.

Maybe, every survivor up until now has it 2nd place at 100,000 dlolloars, but they change almost everything so I am thinking that it might possible be more this time around.

Shellhead

12-01-2006, 09:22 AM

Priceless glimpse from next episode: Candace, paraphrased: "Since when do you not share? That's not nice."

But to make such clear lines drawn like they showed next episode: Jonathan (he probably did the fishing, right?) getting food for Aitu, and the three Lazies not eating... Has this every happened in the final merge before? Is this new ground?

This is new ground. And I'm glad to see it. For all of Candace and Parvati's shouting about Jonathan being immature, the reality is that they are behaving like children. Literally. An adult should be self-sufficient, not relying on others to provide food and shelter. But these lazy kids just lie around in the shelter while Jonathan and Ozzy do all the fishing, and then expect to be invited to dinner. Screw that, there's an ocean worth of fish on the other side of the beach, they can go get their own damn food.

That said, I believe that Nate would be the most immature person on this season of Survivor. While minimally complying with the rule that jury members must remain silent during these tribal councils, Nate winked at Parvati, made faces, made gestures, and generally behaved like a little boy acting up while the teacher's back is turned. If he doesn't settle down, I expect that Nate's going to get an off-camera reprimand soon.

Jonathan is kind of a weasel, but he really did get backed into a corner by Yul, who is really impressing me as the only honest mastermind that we've ever seen in Survivor. There have been honest and competitive players before like Terry from last season, or Tom from season 10, but they were so strong in the challenges that they could just protect themselves with the immunity idol and stay above the politics.

One thing that bothered me tonight was seeing Candace getting sent to Exile Island for a fourth time. Why? Why? Why? Why? I was neutral on her before, and got sick of her attitude in this latest episode, but wouldn't it have been smarter to send Adam these last two times? You know, Adam, the guy who went on to win individual immunity in the latest challenge. He might not have been such a strong competitor after a couple of days on Exile Island, given his total lack of interest in gettng his own food.

Speaking of food, I can't remember ever seeing such a lop-sided auction result before. Jonathan pigged out. Ozzy got all the ice cream that he could eat during the auction. Parvati got a piece of cake. Everybody else went hungry, and Candace got another all-expenses-paid trip to Exile Island.

Rasputin

12-01-2006, 11:07 AM

Rat or not, Jonathan is playing his tail off - and it is working. Unlike the Raro layabouts, he is more than carrying his weight and is proactive about his position amidst the remaining tribe members. Apparently, Candice has decided to ingnore the fact that she also "betrayed" Aitu and had no qualms trying to sell out Jonathan to Raro within the first five minutes of flipping sides.

Candice, Parvati and Adam are playing like they have the power and are laying about and trying to call the shots. I am sure they honestly believe Jonathan is the evil element in all of this, but it really has to be more of a matter of humiliation that they had the power and, in their arogance and complacency, lost it, in no small part because they underestimated Jonathan's importance. He even intimated that Yul had the idol and they dismissed him without a second thought. Now, being a group with limited cranial capacity, they lash out in anger and jealousy instead of actually working on saving their own backsides.

Nate is annoying and just as childish as the rest of Raro - I hope the twist is that he gets booted from the jury, but I know that will never happen, especially since this jury is shaping up to be a steady stream of irrational emotional outbursts that make for great tv.

I get the Candice exile: up to this point, she has been more competitive in challenges than Adam - who has been a no-show. Sure it backfired, but there really wasn't much indication that Adam would rise up and actually do anything productive. Up to that point, he hadn't been a strong competitor. And, you can never discount the grudge that Aitu holds against Candice. They broke her down and all but took her out of the game each time they sent her to Exile Island.

One more thing - I loved the decision not to share with the three lazy idiots. Why continue to provide for them when they refused to make even the slightest effort to help out. Should result in some more confrontations in the next two weeks.

DDM

12-01-2006, 11:39 AM

Candice's immature outburst just made her look stupid. Furthermore, she exposed Yul's plan in the process by ragging on Jonathan. Prior to her outburst, I believed Jonathan was going, but Candice sealed her fate when she just lost her temper.

I think Candice forgot that Survivor is a game. Her "boyfriend" also did not save her from being voted off either. I think his actions speak volumes too. He's a screwball as much as she is.

Shellhead

12-01-2006, 12:12 PM

Candice probably doesn't think of her defection as a betrayal, because she just wanted to be with her pals Adam and Parvati. And she probably didn't feel any loyalty to Jonathan because she didn't ask him to follow her. Not that I'm a Candice fan... her gameplay was about on the mental level of high school social cliques.

I think the lazy kids do understand intellectually that they are losing this game, but their attitudes are out of synch. When Pavrati was rambling on while trying to sell Yul on getting rid of Jonathan, he interrupted her so he could get a word in edgewise, and she had the goddamn nerve to roll her eyes at him. How dare you interrupt me when I am begging for a favor! She needs to do some growing up after this show is over. If I were Yul, I would have said, "the next time you roll your eyes at me, this discussion ends and we are voting *you* off next."

Candice had a very interesting idea about offering their jury votes to Yul, and you could see he was taking that seriously, but she failed to close the deal when she suddenly tried to force a confrontation between Jonathan and Yul, while trying to cram words into Yul's mouth. At that moment, my opinion of her dropped from neutral to hostile. After this game, she can continue to coast through life on her looks for a few more years, but by the time she hits 30, she's going to need a better personality.

Becky's reaction when Yul told her about the proposed deal was interesting, as she was remembering that she and Yul were supposed to be the Final Two, and these would be votes for Yul instead of her.

Now that you mention it, maybe Nate or somebody will get knocked off the jury. That jury has too many people for either the standard 2-player finale or even a 3-player finale. So maybe an upcoming reward challenge will allow the player who wins that challenge to kick someone off the jury.

I do see your point about Candice as a tough competitor, but the first three trips to Exile should have been enough to weaken her, while there's Adam still looking big and buff, the strongest guy left in the game.

It may be time for the traditional coconut challenge soon, to reveal the current pecking order and get the low-end people to step up their game. Jonathan has to know that he isn't going to the final four unless he can sell himself as the dream date to the final two, the man guaranteed to lose in front of the jury. But Yul and Becky are tight, Adam and Pavrati are done with him, and I don't think that Ozzy would ever consider an alliance with Jonathan unless other people that he respected were also in on it.

So it looks like the votes will go like this, assuming none of this people get immunity when they need it most:

1. Adam, too much of a physical threat.
2. Jonathan, treacherous and really annoying
3. Pavrati, annoying

Then it gets dicey. I think Yul's immunity talisman is only good up until the final four. At this point, Ozzy and Sundra must realize that they need to team up against Becky and Yul. Then it will really depend on the challenge, either Ozzy or Yul will probably get immunity, and if the challenge involves swimming, speed, balance or agility, Ozzy will win. So we are likely to see how a tie gets handled this season.

If there is any justice, the final jury should be choosing between Yul and Ozzy. More likely, it will some random combination of two final four members, but not both Yul and Ozzy.

titanfan

12-01-2006, 12:47 PM

Candice's immature outburst just made her look stupid. Furthermore, she exposed Yul's plan in the process by ragging on Jonathan. Prior to her outburst, I believed Jonathan was going, but Candice sealed her fate when she just lost her temper.

I think she assumed she was already sunk. (I would tend to agree) While her outburst made her look childish, I'm glad she at least went out swinging in her own way. (from an entertainment standpoint) Often tantrums like that tend to get them booted, but often, it can serve as a catalyst for people's alliancemates.

I agree with the boot order: 1. Adam 2. Jonathan 3. Parvati. I guess whoever is in 5th place has a small chance to try to get one of the two final four pairs to turn against each other--but this group is unusually tight.

The true shocking thing for me this episode was Adam (referred to as Adumb on other sites) won a mental challenge. One of the biggest challenge upsets ever. WTF. Even worse was that Parvati (A lingerie boxer) was second.

Rasputin

12-01-2006, 01:46 PM

Jonathan is really tough to call in the voting order. I agree that Adam will go next, but Parvati, given her childish outbursts last night, could really talk herself off the island next. As I said earlier, Jonathan may be shifty and untrustworthy, but damned if he isn't playing this game at full bore. I could see him reaching the final 5 before his ouster.

As for the final 2, I agree that a Yul/Ozzy final would be the perfect outcome. For that to happen, Becky would have to go out at the final four, followed by Yul winning final immunity and his sending Sundra home because he deems Ozzy more worthy of reaching the final 2. Not out of the realm of possibility, but I am not confident that it will happen.

Regardless, just keep Nate off my tv screen for as much as possible. And you know next week's jury will be full of close-ups of Candice and Adam winking and blowing kisses to each other. Ugh!

titanfan

12-01-2006, 02:54 PM

J. Robb

12-01-2006, 03:04 PM

I couldn't belive that Yul was pretty much laying out his Final 2 "plans" to Becky last night. Maybe it was my imagination but I could almost hear Becky thinking about backstabbing him. It's been forever since there's been a Becky confessional.
I hope she's thinking about it, otherwise she may the worst player in Survivor history. You don't work to help someone else win, you're there to win. This is a once in a lifetime chance, play it with all you've got.

The same goes for the lazy three Raros. You can afford to goof off when you've got the power, once it's gone you better be out there working, socializing and doing whatever you can to convince the others you shouldn't be the next to go. To do otherwise is giving up, and I hate seeing people give up.

The Foreigner

12-01-2006, 03:12 PM

Shellhead, I agree with everything you've said except for this:

I get the Candice exile: up to this point, she has been more competitive in challenges than Adam - who has been a no-show. Sure it backfired, but there really wasn't much indication that Adam would rise up and actually do anything productive. Up to that point, he hadn't been a strong competitor. And, you can never discount the grudge that Aitu holds against Candice. They broke her down and all but took her out of the game each time they sent her to Exile Island.

I personanly think Rasputin has it right; Candace has been a much stronger competitor than Adam (Who may look buff, but is a complete wuss). The immunity challenge he won this episode was really the only time he's ever performed well at a challenge, and it wasn't even a physical challenge (Although certainly the math involved is mentally tasking). Candace has proven herself as a threat in the past.

Regardless, I must say that in relation to strategy and politics, this could be my favorite season of Survivor. Never has the game been this complicated when it comes to double-crosses and mis-matched alliances. The game has been turned on it's head over and over, to the point where any match-up of two people in the final two could split the jury in any way. I'm loving the unpredictable nature of the game.

malephoenix

12-01-2006, 04:41 PM

As for the final 2, I agree that a Yul/Ozzy final would be the perfect outcome. For that to happen, Becky would have to go out at the final four, followed by Yul winning final immunity and his sending Sundra home because he deems Ozzy more worthy of reaching the final 2. Not out of the realm of possibility, but I am not confident that it will happen.

I have to admit that I'm not seeing a Yul/Ozzy final two for two reasons:

(1) As Rasputin alluded to here, it would mean something like Yul "deeming Ozzy a more worthy" competitor or something. I doubt this would happen b/c although I REALLY like the four Underdogs, and Yul has been rather straight forward, I don't think any of them want to go to the final two with the person who might be more of a challenge.

(2) If the four Underdogs are indeed the Final Four, then why in the world would it come down to the two guys? I see it like this: chances are, in the Immunity Challenge for the final four, that it will be either Ozzy or Yul that win. (Just based on performances thus far.) So as soon as one of them win immunity, the two girls are going to go to the winner and get the other guy voted off because he's the biggest threat. That just makes sense to me.

What I would LIKE to see happen is that the Underdogs as the Final Four all go into it saying "This sucks now that we're against each other, but we're not out to backstab one another. It's just about winning now, and three of us can't win." It would be hard to keep your head up high when you get voted out, but I really hope it goes down like that and that no one betrays or backstabs the others.

J. Robb

12-01-2006, 04:50 PM

I think Yul's nice-guy personality can possibly work against him. It's easy to turn on people who you know won't take it personally and understand it's all "just a game". If next week, Ozzy or someone decided "hey, maybe we should vote for Yul just to get rid of his idol", Yul would probably take it in stride and say "good move" or something, and that makes it very easy to work against him.

It would be a lot more interesting than just letting him walk to the final, anyways.

Zero Hunter

12-07-2006, 02:30 PM

Shellhead

12-07-2006, 03:23 PM

Anyone else read the interview with Burnett in the new TV Guide? He gave away a major twist about the end of the game and why the jury was bigger this time. Instead of 2 it will be 3 people in the finals going for the jury vote for the win. That is really going to mess up some peoples strategy.

Hopefully this will lead to more variety in the appeals to the jury than "I won lots of challenges", "I played the political game well", or "At least I'm a nice person and I know the names of your kids."

titanfan

12-07-2006, 03:43 PM

Hopefully this will lead to more variety in the appeals to the jury than "I won lots of challenges", "I played the political game well", or "At least I'm a nice person and I know the names of your kids."

After 38 days of mental exhaustion, I'm not sure that we'll ever get more than that.

That said, if you ever get cast on Survivor, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be a bad idea to craft your Final 2 speech before you go on the island and then alter it based on the events that happened.

Shellhead

12-07-2006, 07:03 PM

That was disappointing. I don't care how annoying or weasel-like Jonathan was, he was the wrong person to send home tonight. Adam is the biggest, strongest guy in the game, and looks very tough even after all these weeks on the show. How could Yul, Ozzy and Becky be sure that Sundra didn't form a new alliance with Adam and Parvati while they were enjoying the big reward feast? And now it looks like Ozzy might flip.

Jonathan would have been a safe ally, precisely because nobody could stand him. Matter of fact, if these Survivors were smart, Jonathan is the perfect guy to take to the final two. Although if the rumor is accurate, it looks like jury will be trickier this time, with three finalists and nine voters. I don't know how a tie-breaker will work, as a three-way tie is possible, or a 4-4-1 split.

malephoenix

12-07-2006, 07:17 PM

I'm really disappointed at tonight's vote. Even more disappointed with the "next episode" preview:

-Parvati and Adam should not be able to get in so good with any of the four Underdogs. Because one of those two SHOULDN'T be there!

-I can't believe Ozzy is even considering flipping on the other three Underdogs. If he goes to the end with either (or both, I guess) of those two, then there are several members of the Jury that will vote in their favor instead of his. (Nathan and Candace would definitely not give Ozzy the money, and I doubt even Brad or Jenny would.)

DDM

12-07-2006, 07:17 PM

titanfan

12-07-2006, 07:52 PM

I did a big WTF too, even Sundra and Becky were so irritated when they were talking to Jonathan.

Totally foolish strategy decision, if it does come back to bite them in the end, it would be their own faults. Adam and Parvati have both proven their competency in challenges too.

Well, at least it might make things interesting now. Whoever thinks their in the 4th position of the Aitu tribe has to make their move next week.

Corrina

12-07-2006, 09:03 PM

Stupid, stupid on Yul's part. They may not get another chance to get rid of Adam. So what happens to their final four then, eh?

kingdom2000

12-08-2006, 12:59 AM

Just finished watching survivor and has the heat baked the four's brains? Jonathon was perfect person to bring to the final two! Any one vs him and anyone would win. Now as it stands, any combination of two is a tough uphill battle for any of them to claim victory. Actually with the jury stacked the way it is, if Parvarti or Adam make it to the final two, they will win.

Of course, as always with Survivor, somehow "trust" becomes the key word of all conversations even though none of them display any trustworthy behavior. Does anyone on these shows watch them later and realize what hypocritical sh#!s they are?

Shellhead

12-08-2006, 08:31 AM

There were five jury members watching tribal council last night, right? I believe that Adam and Parvati helped vote three of them out. Oh, well, a topic for Jonathan to cover while he spends the next ten days (Survivor time, not tv weeks) hanging out with them.

If there is any justice Ozzy or Yul should win this season. If Adam or Parvati makes it to the end, that's kind of impressive, but not in proportion to the love they will get from the jury. Only Sundra and Becky don't deserve to win. They have been lucky to be in an alliance with Ozzy and Yul for so long, but they have been coasting. Ozzy must be an amazing fisherman, because Sundra doesn't even look like she has lost any weight on this show.

Rasputin

12-08-2006, 09:20 AM

What a disappointing decision.

Adam has already won an individual immunity challenge, he is lazy and doesn't carry his own weight, he has at least 2 guaranteed votes on the jury with the possibility of gaining more every day he stays in the game... compare that to Jonathan who no one likes or trusts, has a big zero in the way of jury support and is a limited threat in the immunity challenges.

In addition to that, you keep the two people who are not allied with Aitu around to scheme and get rid of the #5 guy in the alliance who is all but resigned to being the odd man out. This was a complete emotional decision and not a logical choice.

Of course, next week's preview doesn't lend any credence to the decision with Ozzy being a protential issue and a rift being exposed in Aitu. Ultimately, I am just sad that I have to watch at least one more hour of Adam...

Shellhead

12-08-2006, 10:09 AM

Of course, next week's preview doesn't lend any credence to the decision with Ozzy being a protential issue and a rift being exposed in Aitu. Ultimately, I am just sad that I have to watch at least one more hour of Adam...

I dunno why, but I don't mind Adam. Logically, he should have been voted out last night, but he's not an obnoxious person like Candice or Nate.

I am ready to see Parvati go, because I just find her name annoying... it always sounds like people are talking about poverty. If I had a name like that, I would insist that people pronounce it par-VA-ti instead of just slurring it together like poverty.

Sundra seems nice enough, but she is boring to watch on this show. Becky, too, she is little more than Yul's sidekick.

I've been wondering about Ozzy for a while. Remember how he got his team to throw a challenge to get rid of that silly boy who had a crush on Candice? He has seemed a little edgy at times on camera, like he was already thinking about who he was going to betray when to get to the end. It's a shame, because with his fishing skills and ability to win challenges, he he just needs to stay aligned with the dominant alliance to coast to victory. Once he loses credibility, Ozzy becomes known as the physical threat that everybody wants to oust as soon as possible.

Until last night, Yul seemed like one of the smartest guys to ever play the game. I would put him up there with Brian Heidek and Rob Cesternino. But if Ozzy flips, Yul has a bullseye on the back of his head. If he stays sharp, he may notice a shift in the mood in camp, because his fellow contestants are hardly subtle. Yul should emphasize the food issue to keep a wedge between Ozzy and Adam/Parvati.

Rasputin

12-08-2006, 12:16 PM

I've been wondering about Ozzy for a while. Remember how he got his team to throw a challenge to get rid of that silly boy who had a crush on Candice? He has seemed a little edgy at times on camera, like he was already thinking about who he was going to betray when to get to the end. It's a shame, because with his fishing skills and ability to win challenges, he he just needs to stay aligned with the dominant alliance to coast to victory. Once he loses credibility, Ozzy becomes known as the physical threat that everybody wants to oust as soon as possible.

Until last night, Yul seemed like one of the smartest guys to ever play the game. I would put him up there with Brian Heidek and Rob Cesternino. But if Ozzy flips, Yul has a bullseye on the back of his head. If he stays sharp, he may notice a shift in the mood in camp, because his fellow contestants are hardly subtle. Yul should emphasize the food issue to keep a wedge between Ozzy and Adam/Parvati.

I agree about Ozzy - his stategy hasn't really been unveiled to this point other than hanging within Aitu. I thought last week was a telling point during the withholding food debacle. When Jonathan suggested it, Ozzy immediately jumped in saying that there were no ethical implications of doing so - before Jonathan even got five words into stating his case. The way the show has been edited, it has pretty much just been a Raro vs. Aitu + Jonathan show. With Jonathan gone, someone has to become the villain for the remaining people to justify their backstabbing. Unfortunately, I think that becomes Yul, who admits that everyone approaches him as the godfather of Aitu. If Ozzy flips, Yul is the main target, meaning they vote to force him to use the idol, then try to take him out at the final 5.

I have no doubt Sundra votes whatever way the wind is blowing to keep herself alive. Becky, my guess, is the same way. I question whether she is as loyal to Yul as he is to her. In all honesty, what shot does she have against him in the final 2?

Shellhead

12-08-2006, 12:32 PM

I agree about Ozzy - his stategy hasn't really been unveiled to this point other than hanging within Aitu. I thought last week was a telling point during the withholding food debacle. When Jonathan suggested it, Ozzy immediately jumped in saying that there were no ethical implications of doing so - before Jonathan even got five words into stating his case. The way the show has been edited, it has pretty much just been a Raro vs. Aitu + Jonathan show. With Jonathan gone, someone has to become the villain for the remaining people to justify their backstabbing. Unfortunately, I think that becomes Yul, who admits that everyone approaches him as the godfather of Aitu. If Ozzy flips, Yul is the main target, meaning they vote to force him to use the idol, then try to take him out at the final 5.

I have no doubt Sundra votes whatever way the wind is blowing to keep herself alive. Becky, my guess, is the same way. I question whether she is as loyal to Yul as he is to her. In all honesty, what shot does she have against him in the final 2?

Good point about the immunity idol. Taking out Yul practically requires an immediate concerted effort. It will also take four people to do it, because the first time around, he will whip out the idol to knock out Adam or Pavrati. To finish the job, they would need to come up with 3-2 numbers the following week. And if Yul manages to get immunity either week, he is safe until the Final Four. After Ozzy, Yul has the second best odds of winning any challenge, especially if there is puzzle-solving involved.

So who would the new foursome be? Adam and Parvati, of course. Sundra, if she gets caught up in the momentum, would be an easy vote to flip. But Ozzy is an odd case. On the one hand, he resents having to feed Adam and Parvati. On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have any warm feelings for his current alliance.

But I don't think that Becky would turn on Yul. They are supposed to go to the final two together, plus the other four are probably unlikely to even approach Becky because they will assume that she will tell Yul everything. Besides, the only person that Becky might beat at the final jury is Sundra, and Sundra seems like she has been more friendly than Becky. So Becky might as well stick with Yul.

Rasputin

12-08-2006, 01:32 PM

So who would the new foursome be? Adam and Parvati, of course. Sundra, if she gets caught up in the momentum, would be an easy vote to flip. But Ozzy is an odd case. On the one hand, he resents having to feed Adam and Parvati. On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have any warm feelings for his current alliance.

But I don't think that Becky would turn on Yul. They are supposed to go to the final two together, plus the other four are probably unlikely to even approach Becky because they will assume that she will tell Yul everything. Besides, the only person that Becky might beat at the final jury is Sundra, and Sundra seems like she has been more friendly than Becky. So Becky might as well stick with Yul.

Point taken. I could see Sundra flipping with the thought that she would be the first to go in the Aitu foursome and looking to at least nail down top three with Adam and Parvati.

Ozzy - who knows? They really haven't provided a lot of insight into his thoughts other than he doesn't like gathering food for the lazy tribemates. He is probably in the best position of anyone. He is assured the final four if he stays within Aitu, but has the threat of Yul topping him in a challenge when push comes to shove. Plus, he knows Yul is tied to Becky. If he flips, he knows he is the odds-on favorite to beat Adam and Parvati in challenges. But is it worth the risk to flip, expecially seeing how ruthless Becky was with Candice for her mutiny?

Becky has me perplexed. She is tight with Yul, but it would not shock me for her to flip on him if everyone else does. She HAS to stay under the radar to win. She can not physically dominate challenges and hasn't really been a factor in any individual competitions. Yul is her meal ticket and the person she should stand by, but this late in the game, logic doesn't really rule the day (i.e. Jonathan's ouster last night). If she sticks with him and he is turned on - she is a sitting duck.

As for Adam, the guy just gets under my skin. The dude is lazy. When he was in the majority, he annoyed me with his macho posturing and cockiness. Now that he is in the minority, he is whiney and childish. And he is still lazy. Basically, he is the male version of Parvati, but he is more of a physical threat to my Yul-Ozzy final, so I will be happier when he is booted.

J. Robb

12-08-2006, 02:26 PM

If I were them I'd take out Becky next week. She just seems to be Yul's puppet, and since he can't be directly eliminated, voting out Becky will weaken him.

DDM

12-08-2006, 03:03 PM

I'm a little surprised Jonathan was voted off given he had little face time in this episode. I think the tribe made a critical error in not voting out Adam.

I believe it is a good plan to starve Adam & Parvarti to leave them too weak for the challenges, but this plan quickly collapsed when they brought food from the reward...

I just do not want Parvarti, Adam, or Sundra to win the grand prize . They don't deserve it at this point...

malephoenix

12-09-2006, 12:10 AM

If she sticks with him and he is turned on - she is a sitting duck.

I had to read this a few times before I got it. (My mind wasn't even in the gutter - I thought there was some logical strategy behind it that you were talking about, but that maybe I was missing it.)

Again, I have to say that if Ozzy does actually flip on the Four Underdogs alliance, he's almost ASSURING himself no chance to win, because the Jury will be more likely to vote for either Adam or Parvati.

malephoenix

12-14-2006, 07:50 PM

Great show tonight. Random thoughts as we approach the finale:

-It was sad to hear Parvati's final thoughts. Something like "I surprised myself how strong I am. Now I know that if I end up out in the wild, I can survive." She forgot to add, "If there are guys around."

-I'm glad Ozzy didn't flip. It would've been easy for them to do so.

-I have to admit, though, that I'm impressed Parvati was able to make it so well after that thumb-chop. I know it looks small, but I had a friend deal with something similar at Lowe's one time, and his was fine for a few minutes. Said it didn't even hurt. But then he almost threw up and looked pretty close to going into shock. After Parvati did that, she won the very next challenge.

-I really don't see both Yul and Ozzy in the final three.

J. Robb

12-14-2006, 10:15 PM

I think it's interesting to look back at the initial controversy about the racial divide and see that it's made zero difference. With five remaining, all four original tribes are still represented.

malephoenix

12-14-2006, 11:11 PM

It made a lot of difference. Otherwise, there's no way it would be down to four minorities and a white guy. And even though I don't think most of them thought about it consciously, it makes a lot of difference who your first tribemates are. And since these folks were originally divided by race, that played a part in a lot of decisions.

That said, CBS made sure to play the controversy card and then not deal with the consequences, b/c they switched the teams up after only two eliminations.

titanfan

12-15-2006, 07:40 AM

-It was sad to hear Parvati's final thoughts. Something like "I surprised myself how strong I am. Now I know that if I end up out in the wild, I can survive." She forgot to add, "If there are guys around."

Bwahahaha! Hilarious, but true.

An interesting decision tonight, one I'm not sure is the right one. In challenges, I think Ozzy cancels Parvati's skillset, but if they ever have a brute force challenge, Adam can win. Adam may have been doing pathetic on the challenges on purpose today to make sure he looked like less of a threat than Parvati. Parvati is a bigger threat socially though and would have a chance to flip someone more than Adam probably does.

Go Yul and Ozzy!

Rasputin

12-15-2006, 07:57 AM

Another good episode. Ozzy at this point has to be the odds on favorite to win. He has kept himself within the alliance, but also kept his role in the decision making appear to be at a minimum. The challenge dominance is only going to give him more votes among the first people voted off since they see him with the necklace at every tribal, while Yul continually takes shots in tribal, even though he doesn't necessarily deserve it.

Speaking of which: The whole issue with Jonathan's hat was ridiculous, but Yul did nothing to diffuse it. It is amusing that everyone was so quick to point out that Yul was 'trying to play the game,' as though no one else is trying. Maybe it is just they way they have edited the show, but bringing the hat to tribal seemed like something Yul would do if there wasn't a competition on the line. It didn't seem like gamesmanship to me, but just a friendly gesture. Yet, somehow, I bet this comes back to bite him in the final, especially with the nonsensical midset of Nate, Candice, Parvati and Adam.

I can't see Adam making it any farther. The best thing that happened to him last night was being sent to Exile Island. That allowed Parvati to play herself out of the game by making Yul look at her as a greater threat. Of course, his inability to even be in the immunity challenge didn't hurt.

My prediction for Sunday: it comes down to a vote between Yul and Ozzy with Ozzy taking the victory.

xnef1025

12-15-2006, 04:25 PM

Yul is the best BSer ever at camp, but the biggest over explainer at TC. All he had to say was, "He asked for his hat, so I brought it."

I love when the producers have to categorize each remaining player. There are those ones that are simple and make sense, Yul = Brain, Ozzy = Dominator, Adam = Outsider, but then there's Becky and Sundra. Ummm... Becky talks strategy alot. Get strategizing footage and make her, "the Crafty One". And Sundra... ummm... I think she worried about someone's feelings once.... find that footage and she can be "the Heart" :p

As long as Ozzy keeps winning challeges he's got this won. The only person he might not beat in a final is Adam. Yul would beat either of the girls, but lose to Adam or Ozzy. Becky and Sundra's only shots are each other.

malephoenix

12-15-2006, 04:53 PM

Adam may have been doing pathetic on the challenges on purpose today to make sure he looked like less of a threat than Parvati.

Nah. (a) He's not THAT good of a strategizer (though I've been surprised by a couple of his observations). And (b) it had more to do with just coming back from an aweful stay at Exile Island. Rain, cold, little sleep, eating stuff raw that he pulled out of the ocean (wanna start a pool on how many diseases/parasites he ends up with?) And not only physically, but Exile Island is also draining on your morale.

My prediction for Sunday: it comes down to a vote between Yul and Ozzy with Ozzy taking the victory.

I just can't see how that could happen. First of all, it would mean that one of them had won the immunity challenge just previous, and why in the world would they choose the stronger competitor over one of the others? (If Yul wins, why would he vote out say, Becky instead of Ozzy? He'll probably get more votes if he's against Becky.) And besides that, if the rumor is true that it's a final three this season instead of a final two, then the last vote won't be up to just one person anyway, and I REALLY can't see it being Yul and Ozzy.

I love when the producers have to categorize each remaining player. There are those ones that are simple and make sense, Yul = Brain, Ozzy = Dominator, Adam = Outsider, but then there's Becky and Sundra. Ummm... Becky talks strategy alot. Get strategizing footage and make her, "the Crafty One". And Sundra... ummm... I think she worried about someone's feelings once.... find that footage and she can be "the Heart"

Heh. This is pretty close to what I'm sure a lot of us are thinking...

Shellhead

12-15-2006, 09:27 PM

Ozzy is in the best position to win this. He could easily win the last two immunity challenges, especially if the final one is the traditional endurance challenge. He simply is more athletic and has more willpower than anybody else in the game. Adam is stronger than him, but I doubt that we will see a clearcut challenge of strength this late in the game. In front of the jury, Ozzy has won so much respect from catching fish and winning challenges, that even people from the old rival tribe may vote for him.

Yul will win if Ozzy doesn't make it to the finals, I think, because he is so intelligent and articulate that he should be able to sway a jury... unless Adam makes it, too, in which case old alliances may prove too strong for Yul to overcome.

Sundra and Becky don't deserve to be finalists, as they only get there on the worthy backs of Yul or Ozzy. I just can't picture any scenario where either Sundra or Becky wins.

J. Robb

12-15-2006, 10:17 PM

I just don't like that Becky and maybe Sundra just seem to be playing for Yul to win. You can only ride on coattails for so long, they now have zero chance at winning this game. As a huge Survivor fan, my number one peeve is people not playing to win.

J. Robb

12-17-2006, 11:46 PM

Well, that tie-breaker challenge was the most pathetic display I think I've ever seen on Survivor. Did they not spend the day practising building a fire?? And Sundra couldn't start one with matches! Wow.

Anyways, I was happy to see Yul (barely) win. Yeah, Ozzie kicked some butt physically, but it was Yul's manipulations that helped Ozzie get that far. Plus, I still don't like that Ozzie screwed over his original tribe by getting them to throw a challenge.

titanfan

12-18-2006, 12:08 AM

Glaucon

12-18-2006, 09:15 AM

I am very glad Yule won this season. No knock on Ozzy because he did play both a mental and physical game, but Yule made the power moves and like he said, it was no coincidence that the tribes he was on were powerhouses.

This is definitely the best season since Palau. Jonathan, Yule, and Ozzy were standouts of a great cast of characters.

I was also wondering something (besides what would happen in case of a tie in the Final Three because I have no idea – maybe the jury does a revote right at the reunion), normally second place in Survivor gets $100,000 – so, does Ozzy get this, or both he and Becky?

I am looking forward to next season. It should be interesting how they split-up the tribes with 19 people. And it looks like they could be divided by wealth.

I wish they would do away with Exile Island and the hidden immunity though. The producers want to see that bloody immunity be used so bad that they are making two of them next season.

DDM

12-18-2006, 09:35 AM

subliminal

12-18-2006, 09:42 AM

I'm starting to really question how much this show is scripted and if it really is a reality show at all. Sure Yul deserved to win over the other four, but if you look at the list of past sole survivors, it seems like this is just another quota filled for the 'the first __ to win Survivor'.

titanfan

12-18-2006, 09:45 AM

I think Survivor is a combination of social skills & physical ability. Despite Yul's articulate voice, he would not have gone as far without Ozzy supporting him. Ozzy is both the brains & the brawn & I think Ozzy deserved to win. Yul's brains can only get him so far. Like Sundra, Yul was riding on Ozzy's coattails.

This was the first time, I felt there could easily be co-winners. Yul made the key power play when he got Jonathan to switch over. But Ozzy got to the point to where they only needed to flip one player to begin with.

Ironically, Ozzy threw the challenge which sent Yul to Exile Island, which lead Yul to finding the immunity idol which totally changed the course of the game for both of them.

titanfan

12-18-2006, 09:48 AM

In case anyone is morbidly curious, here's a clip from one of Parvati's Boxing Matches (It is work safe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAs9TXD1HrY&mode=related&search=

Rasputin

12-18-2006, 10:37 AM

I am glad Yul won. Ozzy won the physical challenges and provided food, but Yul is the one who did the brunt of the strategy work to get the Aitu 4 in the final. Yes, they conspired together, but Yul is the one who actually did the dirty work in talking to others outside of those four. Bringing Jonathan over was a master stroke. Don't forget Yul was instrumental in the challenges between the mutiny and the merge, particularly the cannonball drop. Ozzy really didn't do much strategy wise, at least based on what CBS aired. I also thought Yul used the hidden immunity idol very effectively as a strategy tool.

I wouldn't have been sad if Ozzy won, but I thought Yul played the best all-around game.

I just wish they had revealed how everyone voted in the final.

jwd

12-18-2006, 10:58 AM

The fire-building contest - Sad but hilarious. I loved how they edited it. Show the girls striking the flint. Elapsed time 30 minutes. Cut to the others looking bored. Elasped time 1 hour. Cut to Jeff leaning over with his elbow on his knees and his head resting on his hand. Its sad neither did a very good job getting it done with matches either.

The winner - I was happy that Ozzy and Yul made it to the finals so I didn't care who won. I don't think either could've made it there without the other one. Ozzy did win a car so that was good and $100,000. Ozzy mentioned wanting to go back to school - $100,000 would go towards a pretty good school.

Back when it was 8 to 4 - Ozzy still managed to dominate in the challenges and I think he gave his team a huge advantage.
The crucial moment for them though was going into the merge at 5 to 4 and Yul managing to convince Jonathan to switch sides.

I was just glad we actually had a final with 2 people in it that actually deserved to be there and not a lopsided one.

Glaucon

12-18-2006, 06:17 PM

I think Survivor is a combination of social skills & physical ability. Despite Yul's articulate voice, he would not have gone as far without Ozzy supporting him. Ozzy is both the brains & the brawn & I think Ozzy deserved to win. Yul's brains can only get him so far. Like Sundra, Yul was riding on Ozzy's coattails.

Ozzy definitely had a strategic mind, but I don't think he was at the same level of Yule. Ozzy threw the challenge at the very beginning to remove Billy from the game, which lead to the quick demise of everyone from that tribe and put him in the minority alliance on the Aitu tribe. He relied on his physical abilities to keep himself alive and the only thing that put him in an alliance with Yule and Becky was the mutiny.

Gilda Dent

12-18-2006, 07:37 PM

That tiebreaker challenge was hilarious! By far the funniest thing I've ever seen on Survivor. That challenge cemented their status as coattail riders. I'm not sure I've ever seen Jeff Probst so disgusted at contestants.

The having the "Final 3" actually worked out. If there were only a Final 2, then whoever won the F3 challenge would have dragged Becky to the Finals and we end up with a lopsided vote.

Probably not. If it had been a final two, Ozzy would likely have won the immunity challenge, and Yul had the hidden Immunity Idol, which would have eliminated whoever was left with them.

I was rooting for Becky to at least get one vote and not get shut out. I like the "flying under the radar" strategy a lot, and tend not to like the more overtly manipulative players. I've read in several places online the more manipulative players described as "playing the game", as if that is the game. Going low key and letting others take the heat is also playing the game, and has been very effective in past Survivors (Sandra, Jenna)

I was a bit disappointed with the final challenge being adjusted to the contestants' foot sizes. It was done for the stated purpose of making things fair, but it's inconsistent with the way other physical challenges are presented. Physical challenges typically favor those who are stronger, faster, better swimmers, but everyone plays on an even playing field, doing the same task in the same way with the same equipment. This was a challenge that, with an even playing field, would have favored smaller people. Consistency with previous challenges would have had all the players on the same size platform.

xnef1025

12-19-2006, 06:55 AM

The way I understood Jeff's description of the final immunity challenge, at the final stage, everyone was on the same size platform. It was the fall away pieces that were sized to make the starting platforms unique, but at the end, everyone was on a platform the size of half a postcard. The producers just wanted to make sure everyone made it to the last stage.

Shellhead

12-19-2006, 09:25 AM

Adam may have looked like a dumb goon, but he proved to be smarter than that. He was unable to crack the final four, but he gave it a great effort, especially when he tried to recruit Ozzy last week and then tried to flush the idol out before he got ousted.

I would have been happier if it had been a tie between Yul and Ozzy, with Becky getting one vote. Not that Becky deserved a vote, because that fire building contest made it painfully obvious that she had coasted through this game without learning much. (Still not as bad as Sundra, who proved unable to start an adequate fire with even a book of matches and a pile of dry tinder and twigs. If Sundra is ever accused of arson, she will be exonerated in front of any jury if they show this clip from survivor.)

Yul played an impressive mental and social game. He didn't quite have complete control the way Brian Heidik did in Survivor 5, but it was impressive the way Yul generally dealt with everybody in an open and fair manner. Ok, he did ruthlessly exploit Jonathan, but Jonathan was a difficult guy to trust after the mutiny. By treating people so decently, Yul made it possible for his tribe of four to trust and rely on each other during the tough times after the mutiny, the disadvantageous merger, and all the way to the end, including giving Becky and Sundra a fair chance to earn a spot in the final three.

Ozzy was a clever player, too. Throwing a challenge to get rid of a weak teammate was a questionable move, but certainly not one that most players even think about. When he saw that he finally had a solid alliance with Yul, Becky, and Sundra, Ozzy stuck with it all the way, even when presented with chances to break away and join a different alliance. Ozzy wasn't the biggest or strongest Survivor by any means, but his speed, swimming skill, agility and balance were amazing. Add in his fishing, and Ozzy is one of the few Survivors who seems like he could readily live off the land without hardship.

Although I cheered Ozzy on in so many challenges, I do believe that Yul barely deserved the win. The key moment was when he took the deal that Adam and Parvati offered for their jury votes. I think that Yul already had votes locked up from Jonathan, Brad and Jenny, but everybody else was probably going to vote for Ozzy, especially after he started talking about his dad. I suspect that Ozzy needed the money more, but the $100,000 will give him a nice start on his college education, even after taxes.

titanfan

12-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Probably not. If it had been a final two, Ozzy would likely have won the immunity challenge, and Yul had the hidden Immunity Idol, which would have eliminated whoever was left with them.

You can't use the hidden immunity idol past the Final 4, so Yul would have been gone...

Gilda Dent

12-19-2006, 10:40 AM

You can't use the hidden immunity idol past the Final 4, so Yul would have been gone...

Ah, I didn't know that. Still, we don't know for sure who Ozzy would have taken with him. We've seen people choose a more popular player over a less popular one a couple of times and end up losing in the final vote.

J. Robb

12-19-2006, 03:04 PM

I was rooting for Becky to at least get one vote and not get shut out. I like the "flying under the radar" strategy a lot, and tend not to like the more overtly manipulative players. I've read in several places online the more manipulative players described as "playing the game", as if that is the game. Going low key and letting others take the heat is also playing the game, and has been very effective in past Survivors (Sandra, Jenna)
"Flying under the radar" is a good way to get near the end of the game, but I think it's a tough way to win. You're only real chance of winning is to end up against someone the jury really doesn't like, like Amber winning over Rob, or pull off a couple clutch wins at the end (like Jenna or Vecepia) to show that you didn't just coast.

But most of the time, I think the jury will respect the player who survived despite having a target on their back more than the player who was never a target, though I agree avoiding that target is part of the game as well.

Patman

12-20-2006, 08:32 AM

Although I cheered Ozzy on in so many challenges, I do believe that Yul barely deserved the win. The key moment was when he took the deal that Adam and Parvati offered for their jury votes. I think that Yul already had votes locked up from Jonathan, Brad and Jenny, but everybody else was probably going to vote for Ozzy, especially after he started talking about his dad. I suspect that Ozzy needed the money more, but the $100,000 will give him a nice start on his college education, even after taxes.

Parvati voted for "Oscar" (Ozzy). Adam did hold up his end of the bargain with Yul because at the time, it gave him another shot to win immunity and stay in the game longer, and had Adam went on an immunity streak, he would have won the game due to the makeup of the jury. Candice gave Yul her vote because he did answer truthfully with his one word answer at tribal council (though he did blabber a little bit after giving his answer, which could have affected her vote.)

Rasputin

12-21-2006, 10:30 AM

Candice gave Yul her vote because he did answer truthfully with his one word answer at tribal council (though he did blabber a little bit after giving his answer, which could have affected her vote.)

That annoyed me a bit because she asked the question, he answered it simply 'yes', then she addressed him again by saying 'that must have been difficul for you.' At that point, the condition of her previous question had been met and no longer applied. -- Sorry, it is a minor quibble that didn't affect anything, but they made such a big deal out of it to create some tension that it bothered me and was enhanced because Candice was involved. I just had to get that rant out of my system.

titanfan

12-21-2006, 02:41 PM

"Flying under the radar" is a good way to get near the end of the game, but I think it's a tough way to win. You're only real chance of winning is to end up against someone the jury really doesn't like, like Amber winning over Rob, or pull off a couple clutch wins at the end (like Jenna or Vecepia) to show that you didn't just coast.

Agreed. UTR is a great way to get to like the Final 6, but hard to win. Generally, it seems like jurors tend to vote for players who play the same way as they did. And since the jury is rarely made up of that many UTR players....

I think if they keep this Final 3 thing, it will make it even harder for UTR to win. Because now it's harder for the UTR player to win the Final 3 challenge and drag another UTR or goat into the Finals.

I never really considered Jenna M. an under the radar player. Jenna was second fiddle to Heidi, but she did win 4 individual immunities and the two of them were often on the chopping block. To me, the perfect example of an UTR player was Ethan. Amber isn't far behind, but she was one half of the power couple. Heck Shii Ann called her out as "going to win" before she got booted, but no one did anything about it.