Did anyone like JIM LEE wild cats MORE than JIM LEE X-men?

[cobra_commander]

This is going to be a funny one...

My vote is for Jim Lee X-men... :D

[Stellar]

Jim Lee on X-men, though the art was good, had the same old Marvel stories. WildCATs, i'll admit that the first stories weren't exactly Eisner material, but at least there were interesting characters, themes and overall feel.

[Subotai]

The upcoming Lee/Wildcats I'm very much looking forward to.

[cobra_commander]

The upcoming Lee/Wildcats I'm very much looking forward to.

Yeah, Morrison Lee looks like a great combo. But then again so did Miller Lee :mad:

[Stellar]

the thing with Lee is, he's never been a very strong writer. he can design some of the best characters around and his stories are interesting, but seem rushed. no real attention to fleshing out important aspects decently. which is why when he's paired up with someone like Miller or Morrison, it makes his work seem that much stronger.

[Subotai]

Yeah, Morrison Lee looks like a great combo. But then again so did Miller Lee :mad:

I must admit, Miller's writing sort of wore thin on me a while ago.

Hell, I'd love Casey/Lee.

[Subotai]

the thing with Lee is, he's never been a very strong writer. he can design some of the best characters around and his stories are interesting, but seem rushed. no real attention to fleshing out important aspects decently. which is why when he's paired up with someone like Miller or Morrison, it makes his work seem that much stronger.

Agree 100%. Interesting visual concepts, better served by a strong writer.

[cobra_commander]

Agree 100%. Interesting visual concepts, better served by a strong writer.

Yep. Me too. He's no William Shakespeare

[Subotai]

Yep. Me too. He's no William Shakespeare

But, to give credit where it's due, he is a very good artist. I know some people may have some issues with him and his influence on comics, but I love Wildstorm, Wildcats, etc. It was not so strong when it started - but hey, so were many projects. If Morrison has a good storyline - and he'll need a VERY good one to top Casey - this should knock our socks off.

[kraftwerks]

definitely prefer his Xmen. Both he and Portacio lost something when they weren't tied to...what are those things called...comics all used to have them...oh yeah! Deadlines!
Even with all the time in the world issues often looked like Williams finishes over rough Lee layouts.

[The Punished]

I think Jim's work on XMen was better because he had as mentioned above focus on the job. His thing was art. No writing, no executive decisions, etc., all he had to do was create lush art. He did it very well.

When he went to Image, the art suffered. I anticipated the whole situation when I first heard the stirrings of the guys leaving to create their own company.

The more he got sidetracked the less he seemed to do. I remember even being waiting anxiously for Deathblow before it came out. When I picked it up and read [excuse me, let me correctly phrase it] when I looked at the pages I felt totally ripped off. The cover price was the highest I had paid for a normal comic and then to get what 8-10 pages of Sin City era Miller tribute, really riled me up. I even wrote a disparaging letter to the letter column. I never saw it printed though.

So I give the XMen era Jim Lee work the higher marks in comparison.

[cobra_commander]

I think Jim's work on XMen was better because he had as mentioned above focus on the job. His thing was art. No writing, no executive decisions, etc., all he had to do was create lush art. He did it very well.

When he went to Image, the art suffered. I anticipated the whole situation when I first heard the stirrings of the guys leaving to create their own company.

The more he got sidetracked the less he seemed to do. I remember even being waiting anxiously for Deathblow before it came out. When I picked it up and read [excuse me, let me correctly phrase it] when I looked at the pages I felt totally ripped off. The cover price was the highest I had paid for a normal comic and then to get what 8-10 pages of Sin City era Miller tribute, really riled me up. I even wrote a disparaging letter to the letter column. I never saw it printed though.

So I give the XMen era Jim Lee work the higher marks in comparison.

I felt the same way. Kudos for writing the letter as well. Probably took you longer to write it then it took them to write the issue :D

[Big Blue]

Definitely Jim Lee's X-Men. I think when Jim Lee first hit the big time with X-Men, his style was fresh and exciting. While I still enjoy his art, I feel disappointed that he hasn't really grown in his style as an artist. It looks exactly as it did 15 years ago. His talent did grow tremendously between his Marvel initiation on Alpha Flight and X-Men, but he kind of flatlined after that.

As a sidenote, Deathblow did introduce me to Tim Sale's work, so I can't knock that series.:p

[DMike]

I think Jim's work on XMen was better because he had as mentioned above focus on the job. His thing was art. No writing, no executive decisions, etc., all he had to do was create lush art. He did it very well.

According to Jim he was the one who was coming up with the plots to the stories he drew. He may not have been scripting them but he was doing more than just the art.

[cobra_commander]

Definitely Jim Lee's X-Men. I think when Jim Lee first hit the big time with X-Men, his style was fresh and exciting. While I still enjoy his art, I feel disappointed that he hasn't really grown in his style as an artist. It looks exactly as it did 15 years ago. His talent did grow tremendously between his Marvel initiation on Alpha Flight and X-Men, but he kind of flatlined after that.

As a sidenote, Deathblow did introduce me to Tim Sale's work, so I can't knock that series.:p

Very well said. I am a BIG Jim Lee fan but anything gets boring if its the same over and over again.

[pennywisdom]

I think Jim's art progressively got better as he went. I liked his work on X-Men more than his work on Uncanny. I liked his work on WildC.A.T.S more than his work on X-Men. I liked his work at DC ("Hush" and "For Tomorrow") more than his work on WildC.A.T.S.

Personally, I think the older his stuff is, the more raw and unpolished it looked. He looked too much like a traditional comic book artist in those days, whereas today he has more of a distinct style. His art seems sharper and crisper, which I love.

I look forward to seeing his stuff on the new Grant Morrison Wildcats because if anyone can push Jim's artwork to new places, it's Grant. Already, we've been given clues as to how far the artwork on this new title will go. Grant has mentioned a Steranko influence and impressed upon us his desire to see the book go in a more artistically adventurous direction, with pop art and avant-garde "punk" sensibilities being alluded to.

Yeah, Morrison Lee looks like a great combo. But then again so did Miller Lee
I get what you're saying, but that's apples and oranges. Morrison and Miller are such drastically different writers it's not even a valid comparison. In my mind, Morrison is MUCH more suited to Jim's style and ethos.

[Big Blue]

...I get what you're saying, but that's apples and oranges. Morrison and Miller are such drastically different writers it's not even a valid comparison. In my mind, Morrison is MUCH more suited to Jim's style and ethos.
I agree with you on this. Personally, I never got excited over the Miller/Lee teamup mostly because I just couldn't see Lee's style fitting into Miller's style of storytelling (unless he used his "Deathblow" style, which I think is safe to say we will never see again).

[pennywisdom]

Personally, I never got excited over the Miller/Lee teamup mostly because I just couldn't see Lee's style fitting into Miller's style of storytelling (unless he used his "Deathblow" style, which I think is safe to say we will never see again).
I got excited when the news first hit, but simultaneously, I knew in my head it wouldn't work.

I couldn't help but be suspicious that the guy who is the industry's champ when it comes to drawing hyper-kinetic, bolder than life, grandiose superhero comics was pairing with a guy who has been stuck in "Sin City" mode for over a decade now. It doesn't add up.

[Big Blue]

I got excited when the news first hit, but simultaneously, I knew in my head it wouldn't work.

I couldn't help but be suspicious that the guy who is the industry's champ when it comes to drawing hyper-kinetic, bolder than life, grandiose superhero comics was pairing with a guy who has been stuck in "Sin City" mode for over a decade now. It doesn't add up.
Yeah. Plus Lee does a pretty good job of rendering a fairly detailed scene, as opposed to the generalistic moody scenes of Miller's art/writing. (And I don't mean that in a bad way.)

[Big Blue]

Now Miller/Sale? That's a teamup I'd like to see.

[tstrike99]

I agree that every time we see new stuff from Jim Lee it looks better. I've been a fan of his since his original Uncanny X-Men run. I can honestly say I've never been disappointed with his art on anything, no matter what characters are done. I just wish we saw stuff from him on a monthly basis like we did back in the day.....

[Apathy Boy]

I liked WILDCATS more. But then, I've never liked the X-Men that much and found the stories during Lee's run to be convoluted and nonsensical beyond belief. (They ever expain that one issue with Wolverine and Captain America rescuing a baby Black Widow in World War II?)

The first four issues of WILDCATS were... not so good. The writing was laughable and the art was really sloppy. That was the case with all of the initial Image mini-series, actually. I think the Image Six were under some major pressure to get their work out immediately.

Funny thing happened with WILDCATS #5, though. The art got much better. And the story was actually pretty good. The characters developed more personality, the character interactions became more complex and the plots got more original.

*Sigh* And then they brought Claremont aboard for a storyarc, which he filled with the typical convoluted and nonsensical Claremontisms.

[Grizsly]

Funny thing happened with WILDCATS #5, though. The art got much better. And the story was actually pretty good. The characters developed more personality, the character interactions became more complex and the plots got more original.

*Sigh* And then they brought Claremont aboard for a storyarc, which he filled with the typical convoluted and nonsensical Claremontisms.

Before I even got to your post I was gearing up to comment that WildCATS 5 was my favorite Image book at the time. The art was UNREAL in that one - and the story was great. A lot of people don't remember, but Scott Lobdell had some chops when it came to writing comics.

Also, when Lee and Bennet teamed up for some of the later issues in Moore's WildCATS run, it was a really great comic.

And I kind've dug the Huntsman storyline, even if it was a typical Claremont story - the art was certainly top notch.

Lee has some AMAZING art talent, and most anything he puts out will grab my attention.

All that said, Uncanny 274-279 remains one of my favorite all time X-Men stories, and the art, paired with a perfect story (again, it's Claremont, but damn good), still sticks in my head today as if I read it yesterday and not several years ago. It beats out all of the WildCATS comics, in my opinion.

[cobra_commander]

Before I even got to your post I was gearing up to comment that WildCATS 5 was my favorite Image book at the time. The art was UNREAL in that one - and the story was great. A lot of people don't remember, but Scott Lobdell had some chops when it came to writing comics.

Also, when Lee and Bennet teamed up for some of the later issues in Moore's WildCATS run, it was a really great comic.

And I kind've dug the Huntsman storyline, even if it was a typical Claremont story - the art was certainly top notch.

Lee has some AMAZING art talent, and most anything he puts out will grab my attention.

All that said, Uncanny 274-279 remains one of my favorite all time X-Men stories, and the art, paired with a perfect story (again, it's Claremont, but damn good), still sticks in my head today as if I read it yesterday and not several years ago. It beats out all of the WildCATS comics, in my opinion.

Looks like you've got pretty good taste.

Ditto X-men 274-279
Ditto Wildcats 5

And Lobdell was AWESOME back then..

[DaveEB]

Looks like you've got pretty good taste.

Ditto X-men 274-279
Ditto Wildcats 5

And Lobdell was AWESOME back then..


What did Lobdell have to do with any of those books?

I liked Jim's WildCATS better than his X-Men but it's only by a small margin. WildCATS # 5 and WildCATS #19(Robinson, Lee, Bennett issue) remain some of my favorite comics of all time. I believe Jim Lee's WildCATS made me go back and look for some of his earlier work on X-Men so really my first taste of Jim Lee was WildCATS.

[Grizsly]

Lobdell wrote WildCATS for the first five (six?) issues.

Yes - WildCATS 19 - that's it. Not Moore, Robinson - another fine writer. Thanks for the correction - it had the Coda chick on the cover, right?

[eggie]

WildC.A.T.s #5 blew my mind...the story and art totally rocked and to this day it is one of my favorite single issues of all time. As much as I loved Jim's Uncanny & X-Men stuff, I'll have to vote for WildC.A.T.s because of that one issue.

[IMJ]

None of the above. His Batman runs are some of his best most mature stuff ever!!! ;)

[Stellar]

They ever expain that one issue with Wolverine and Captain America rescuing a baby Black Widow in World War II?)


no, they never explained that. that one's been bothering me for a while.

after issue #5, i think the guys got it that they needed to put a little more effort in if they wanted something unique

[melriks]

I'm not sure you can say either run was better. The Jim Lee era X-men stories were incredible. They included the typical X-men concepts (Shi'ar, Savage Land, Magneto), but put a twist on them and took them to new heights. The launch of the adjective-less X-men. The introduction of Gambit, Omega Red, and Psylocke's new body.

The Cap/Wolverine story was the telling of their first meeting. Certain events in the present were juxtaposed with flashbacks. It always made sense to me, even if it didn't fit continuity perfectly.

The Wildcats mini-series. Wow! The pacing, the character concepts, the non-linear storytelling... The regular series, with all it's different writers, never lived up to the potential of the mini.

[Strannik]

This is going to be a funny one...

My vote is for Jim Lee X-men... :D

I think his style has improved quite a bit from his X-Men days and his original WildC.A.T.s work, so I will postpone my judgement until Wildcats #1(4.0) hits the stands.

[Babylon23]

I admit that I'm not the biggest Jm Lee fan, so I may not be the best person to judge, but I prefer his X-Men work over the Wildcats stuff. While the Wildcats art is technically superior, I sometimes think its a little too polished, and loses some of raw energy that the earlier deadline-driven x-art had. Sometimes, artists can overdo things if they have a lot of time to produce it.

[hex111]

X-Men... simply because the stories were actually worth reading... Wildcats Vol. 1? not so much... the art was great, but even great art can't keep me into a book when the story sucks as bad as most of Vol. 1 did

[Cordelia]

Personally I enjoyed Jim Lee when he was doing WildC.A.T.S but unfotunately the story line pretty much died when they went to Khera. Most of the members leaving - especially Grifter. He was my favorite seconded with Zealot.

[alextron]

WildCATS took his work to a whole new level. Just look at WildCATS #5. Fold out pages. Unfortunanlty, It's still not as good as his X-men stuff.

[Stellar]

Personally I enjoyed Jim Lee when he was doing WildC.A.T.S but unfotunately the story line pretty much died when they went to Khera. Most of the members leaving - especially Grifter. He was my favorite seconded with Zealot.

i actually thought the whole Kheran trip gave the book more depth, especially since it was somewhat of a lead in to the Gang War. most of the stories before that had a lot of interesting elements i.e. Kheran/Daemonite war being the cause of all kinds of legends, I.O. and such, but they seriously lacked depth

[batturtle]

I'm very looking forward to the new WildCATS solely due to Grant Morrison.
I know I'm in the great minority, but I've never been a huge fan of Jim Lee's stuff.

Plus, does anyone think it's a bad idea to have him working on All Star Batman, WildCATS and the big DC video game thing all at the same time?
It feels like Grant and Frank Quietly will have a year or two of Superman completed before the next Batman even comes out.

[steve2275]

I'm very looking forward to the new WildCATS solely due to Grant Morrison.

mines cause of jim

[Strannik]

Plus, does anyone think it's a bad idea to have him working on All Star Batman, WildCATS and the big DC video game thing all at the same time?

Not to mention overseeing Wildstorm as the imprint's Editorial Director.

But yeah, I would venture to say that it is probably a bit too much. Jim Lee is not exactly known for his promptness to begin with. Increased workload certainly won't help matters.

[nihil_domini]

Especially not when Wildcats has been pushed back for the second time. Looks like Wetworks is going to be the most reliable book around.

[eggie]

Especially not when Wildcats has been pushed back for the second time. Looks like Wetworks is going to be the most reliable book around.

I never thought I would hear those words muttered together in the same sentence! LOL I think Jim is overworked at this point, he has admitted that the problems with All-Star Batman are his and not Miller's...I don't think Wildcats will keep its bi-monthly schedule at all.

[The Eternal Thor]

Although I liked Lee's X-Men better than Wildcats, I have to say I am SO excited about reading the new Wildcats he's doing with Morrison. Despite Lee's workload, and scheduling problems, as well as the workload on Morrison right now (52, Batman, All-Star Superman) I think this pairing is still a dream come true to comic fans. We have the brilliance of Morrison's writing (anyone reading All-Star Supes can attest to that) and then the beauty of Lee's artwork. Even if 'Cats is late, I'm still adding it to my pull list and going to love every issue (err...I hope).