Revenge of the Sith

[curefreak]

im a very bad fanboy but i just got around to watching this.
im very impressed with a lot of things but unfortunately the acting is not one of them.
i mean sure samuel l jackson did a great job as usual and everyone else did ok,
but the guy playing anakin comes off as a spoiled petulant brat just like he did in the last movie.
some could argue that this is intentional but i dont see it that way i want anakin to be evil and malacious like darth vader :evilsmile
oh well the effects of course were excellent for the most part and they filled out the plot points that were neccesary
but there is no way in hell that this movie can be compared to the first trilogy
and thats where most of the problems comes from.
i was hoping that lucasbot would learn from the mistakes he made in the last one but i think he too has succumbed to the dark side :(

[blackdragon6]

actualy i respect the new trilogy more considering how i like how the story falls into place now.

[Rabid Trekkie]

im a very bad fanboy but i just got around to watching this.
im very impressed with a lot of things but unfortunately the acting is not one of them.
i mean sure samuel l jackson did a great job as usual and everyone else did ok,
but the guy playing anakin comes off as a spoiled petulant brat just like he did in the last movie.
some could argue that this is intentional but i dont see it that way i want anakin to be evil and malacious like darth vader :evilsmile
oh well the effects of course were excellent for the most part and they filled out the plot points that were neccesary
but there is no way in hell that this movie can be compared to the first trilogy
and thats where most of the problems comes from.
i was hoping that lucasbot would learn from the mistakes he made in the last one but i think he too has succumbed to the dark side :(

Yeah, its interesting that when Lucas was the rebel against Fox's empire he made magic. When he became the empire the films weren't as good.

I've heard Hayden is actually a good actor (friend of mine forgot that he was in Shattered Glass because he wasn't whining in it) but Lucas put his dark side mojo on all the actors. The only one I actually liked was Palpatine.

I probably wouldn't be as upset with the new films if they weren't Star Wars flicks. Oh well, at least a lot of the other SW material is still top notch like the books and comics during the prequel area.

[CaptainAwesome]

Episode 3 really redeemed the entire prequel trilogy. The first two were just poor quality, but the third one really stepped up. I agree that Anakin was a whiney little girl, but that was less of a problem in episode 3. It really wrapped up nicely and I wish the first two could have been like this.

[drwho]

Has there been any mention as to when a Star Wars full movie dvd set is gonna come out. It has been awhile now what is the fuggin hold up?

[curefreak]

Has there been any mention as to when a Star Wars full movie dvd set is gonna come out. It has been awhile now what is the fuggin hold up?
im sure lucas is trying to find a way to screw it up the first time so well have to pay for it twice:mad:

[curefreak]

i know this isnt popular but of the three i think the first one had the best acting and jar jar binks wasnt that annoying to me:o

[Legato]

Sith was much more enjoyable to watch than the other two films mostly because of Palpatine and the last few minutes of Darkside Anakin in the last half of the film. My only wish was for Anakin to kill Jar Jar when Ani was in his dark zone.

[Jared]

Has there been any mention as to when a Star Wars full movie dvd set is gonna come out. It has been awhile now what is the fuggin hold up?


Something will probably happen next year for the 30th anniversary of the original Star Wars. There's been talk of doing theatrical re-releases in 3D, at some point, so maybe that's holding up the Ultimate Final Edition Box Set...if there ever is a truly final edition.

[Jared]

Episode 3 really redeemed the entire prequel trilogy. The first two were just poor quality, but the third one really stepped up. I agree that Anakin was a whiney little girl, but that was less of a problem in episode 3. It really wrapped up nicely and I wish the first two could have been like this.


Something I really only noticed fairly recently was just how much Revenge of the Sith Enhances Return of the Jedi in some ways. Now, taking everything into account, Luke comes off as being much more in danger of actually falling to the Dark Side over the course of the movie than he did back when all we had was the originals.

Still can't believe Lucas fudged up by not bothering to explain Leia having some memory of Padme while Luke didn't. It would have been so simple: just have Padme get to hold Leia before she dies.

[cactusmaac]

Even simpler: Leia has Jedi powers.

[heystacy]

How is there still good in Anaikin after he killed all the kids and Jedi? He was a bad, bad sith.

[the film freak]

It had Wookies in it. Jumping Wookies. So it had that going for it. I liked the spaceship battle at the beginning too.

[J. Robb]

I wished we would have found out what the Sith were getting revenge for.

[ScottDMSimmons]

Still can't believe Lucas fudged up by not bothering to explain Leia having some memory of Padme while Luke didn't. It would have been so simple: just have Padme get to hold Leia before she dies.

I assume that the Organas never told her she wasn't their natural child. When Luke asked her about her mom, she was likely talking about Bail's wife... the mom who started to raise her.

Scott

[Valmore]

I wished we would have found out what the Sith were getting revenge for.

For Darth Maul getting killed like bizatch?

Anyhow, I enjoyed "Sith" and Ewan McGregor really did a great job as Obi-Wan, even with some of the lame dialogue he was saddled with. It's no "Empire" but it's still okay by me.

[J. Robb]

For Darth Maul getting killed like bizatch?
No, they wanted revenge before that. Maul used his only line to say "soon we will have revenge". Two movies later, we get to the "revenge" part, but still no story on what they're "revenging".

(And I agree about Ewan McGregor- all the excuses about bad dialogue hurting the actors don't really hold up when he did such a great job.)

[SnowTrooper]

No, they wanted revenge before that. Maul used his only line to say "soon we will have revenge". Two movies later, we get to the "revenge" part, but still no story on what they're "revenging".
I think that they are getting revenge on how the Jedi defeated the Sith like 5,000 years ago and drove them all into exile, which instituted the rule of two.

A Master and an Apprentice. Always two there are, no more, no less.-Yoda

[DonC]

Something will probably happen next year for the 30th anniversary of the original Star Wars. There's been talk of doing theatrical re-releases in 3D, at some point, so maybe that's holding up the Ultimate Final Edition Box Set...if there ever is a truly final edition.


The 3-D movies are on hold. Not enough theaters have the technology to project the movies in 3-D.

There are no announced plans for a 6-movie set right now, but there will be one someday, I'm sure.

[The Batman]

Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the SIth was really well put together and an immensely enjoyable film to me. i wouldn't say it redeemed the Prequel Trilogy since i also enjoyed The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones but it was nice to see all the pieces finally fall into place.

[Silliw 2]

General Grievous still remains one of my favorite SW characters.

I love the way he always retreated when outgunned. Like a big, coughing rat.

[heystacy]

General Grievous still remains one of my favorite SW characters.

I love the way he always retreated when outgunned. Like a big, coughing rat.


He was a fun character. :)

[Jared]

Even simpler: Leia has Jedi powers.


Well sure. That's pretty much the only way she could have any memory of it, after all. But I really thing there should have been *something* to the signifigance of Leia having a vague memory of her mother, while Luke has none.

I've always assumed Leia did know she was adopted, since Luke says "do you remember your mother, your real mother", when he's telling her that they're siblings.

[Jared]

No, they wanted revenge before that. Maul used his only line to say "soon we will have revenge". Two movies later, we get to the "revenge" part, but still no story on what they're "revenging".

>Well the movies alone do establish that the Sith are the long-standing enemies of the Jedi, and that they've been believed extinct for about a millenium. So I think it goes without saying what the Sith want revenge for. For if you want the specifics of what the Sith order that Sidious is a part is peeved about, there's the Jedi vs. Sith miniseries from Dark Horse, and I think the novel about Darth Bane (the guy who institutes the Rule of Two) comes out this year.


(And I agree about Ewan McGregor- all the excuses about bad dialogue hurting the actors don't really hold up when he did such a great job.)

>Well, he never had to draw a comparsion between the love of his life and sand. :)

[curefreak]

why did obi wan keep comparing anakin to his brother?
especially when he raised him and still sometimes treats him like his kid.

[scottv]

I thought that this was the best of the new ones but I still think that even for as old as the first ones are they are awesome. I like how through the new movies you could see Anaikin getting darker and darker. As soon as I saw the little kids I just thought... "Don't do it" but I think it really showed how far he would really go.

[stealthwise]

A terrible, terrible movie. The acting is banal, the dialogue is atrociously bad, even for a prequel to a 70's space opera, and the plot plods along to an inevitable conclusion.

The taint of the new trilogy is complete, with one of the worst scenes of all-time closing the film.

[curefreak]

i just dont see how anakin can go from a whiney petulant brat to someone as laidback as darth vader over night is hard to rationalize.
and i agree with the last post most of the trilogies arent likeable as the first ones.

[J. Robb]

The taint of the new trilogy is complete, with one of the worst scenes of all-time closing the film.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

:p

[Sean Walsh]

I wished we would have found out what the Sith were getting revenge for.

For being wiped out by the Jedi. According to comics and common sense, the idea of there being only 2 Sith at one time doesn't sound like something they really care for.......almost like there used to be, y'know, a LOT more. ;) :p

[curefreak]

For being wiped out by the Jedi. According to comics and common sense, the idea of there being only 2 Sith at one time doesn't sound like something they really care for.......almost like there used to be, y'know, a LOT more. ;) :p
thats exactly what i was thinking thank you !
i should have said something but i guess i was too scared:o

[J. Robb]

For being wiped out by the Jedi. According to comics and common sense, the idea of there being only 2 Sith at one time doesn't sound like something they really care for.......almost like there used to be, y'know, a LOT more. ;) :p
I realize that's the obvious assumption, but it's pretty weak dramatically. I think it would have been more interesting if there was some certain act (or acts) which the Sith wanted revenge for. Even just a quick exchange between Yoda and the Emperor would have made the "revenge" aspect more compelling.

As for the "two at a time" rule, I just thought that was due to the Sith's lust for power, they want to be the only one with the power. Kind of a "Highlander" thing, I guess.

And speaking of things left unexplained, I was hoping for some explanation as to why, as Windu said in the second film, the Jedi were losing their ability to use the Force.

[Sean Walsh]

thats exactly what i was thinking thank you !
i should have said something but i guess i was too scared:o

Although.......

The idea of there being only 2 Sith makes the Jedi seem even more....insane? than Lucas made them in the prequels (the whole "disconnect from everyone; Jedi have no attachments!"). All these years the Jedi - millions in numbers - view the Sith - only 2 at a time - as a huge threat to their way of life. Like only 2 Sith could undo what millions of Jedi created and maintained.

Which is, basically, what happened anyway. :p

I mean, the "old" way of thinking made the Jedi seem invincibly honorable and good, but Lucas really made us think twice about them - to some, that's an awful outrageous thing, but for others it was intriguing and unexpected....and cool. :p

[cactusmaac]

My two cents: I thought Sith was probably the best-made and strongest of all the Star Wars movies. Not my favourite, which is still Jedi.


And speaking of things left unexplained, I was hoping for some explanation as to why, as Windu said in the second film, the Jedi were losing their ability to use the Force.

The activities and presence of the Sith were putting the Force out of balance.

[cactusmaac]

Although.......

The idea of there being only 2 Sith makes the Jedi seem even more....insane? than Lucas made them in the prequels (the whole "disconnect from everyone; Jedi have no attachments!"). All these years the Jedi - millions in numbers - view the Sith - only 2 at a time - as a huge threat to their way of life. Like only 2 Sith could undo what millions of Jedi created and maintained.

Which is, basically, what happened anyway. :p

I don't think there were millions of Jedi. They seemed to number in the thousands at most, or they'd have needed a planet of their own, not just a temple.

Plus you have to bear in mind the history of the Sith. They were responsible for shattering, galactic wars on multiple occasions. Even two of them, in the right place, could be very dangerous.

That was kind of emphasised by Obi Wan, Yoda and Luke being the only Jedi in the OT, yet still managing to destroy the Sith and the Empire.

[Sean Walsh]

And speaking of things left unexplained, I was hoping for some explanation as to why, as Windu said in the second film, the Jedi were losing their ability to use the Force.

I *think* Palpatine may've had something to do with that, but I don't know for sure. I'll bet some book or other resource has come up with an explanation..........but I must admit I'm unaware of it at the moment.

Going back to the "revenge" bit one more time:

As Lucas said when he renamed Return of the Jedi: "Jedi don't seek revenge..."

And when he named Episode 3: "...but a Sith probably would." (In regards to the kind of people they were.)

[Sean Walsh]

My two cents: I thought Sith was probably the best-made and strongest of all the Star Wars movies. Not my favourite, which is still Jedi.

Holy crap! :eek: I thought I was the only one who believed both those things!

I'm not alone!

[SnowTrooper]

The Sith are can cloud themselves from the Jedi by using the Force which makes the Sith very hard to find. Sith dont want to share power either so the 'Rule of Two' makes sense. After the Sith get almost wiped out by the Jedi they had to come up with a good game plan. Palpatine had the best opportunity and the best idea, take over the universe from the inside. Him being the Supreme Chancellor and being the Sith mastermind behind the Clone Wars was a perfect plan. That shows the true nature of the Sith, deceptive, patient, and really smart.

[curefreak]

Although.......

The idea of there being only 2 Sith makes the Jedi seem even more....insane? than Lucas made them in the prequels (the whole "disconnect from everyone; Jedi have no attachments!"). All these years the Jedi - millions in numbers - view the Sith - only 2 at a time - as a huge threat to their way of life. Like only 2 Sith could undo what millions of Jedi created and maintained.

Which is, basically, what happened anyway. :p

I mean, the "old" way of thinking made the Jedi seem invincibly honorable and good, but Lucas really made us think twice about them - to some, that's an awful outrageous thing, but for others it was intriguing and unexpected....and cool. :p
another contradiction is that supposedly jedi dont kill,
but yet they wiped out the sith lords so they must have killed them.
and i dont know about there being "millions" of jedi.

[cactusmaac]

another contradiction is that supposedly jedi dont kill,


Where did you get that idea from?

[curefreak]

Where did you get that idea from?
anakin said that in the beginning before killing count dooku.

[SnowTrooper]

anakin said that in the beginning before killing count dooku.
Its not the Jedi way to kill an unarmed opponent, The Jedi will only kill when its neccessary. Since they were at war with the Sith thousands of years ago they killed them because it was neccessary.

[cactusmaac]

I think that was in relation to killing unarmed prisoners.

[J. Robb]

The activities and presence of the Sith were putting the Force out of balance.
Like the "revenge" thing, that may be right, but it's still kind of vague.

I guess I was hoping for the various pieces to come together in a satisfying way in "Sith", but in the end most of the lingering questions from the first two movies were left lingering.

[Ilash]

I LOVED Sith. I thought it was pretty much a perfect Star Wars movie and a definite step up from the somewhat good Clones and the mediocre Phantom Menace. As for how it rates in comparison to the first trilogy, that's a bit more difficult. Nostalgia plays a big part in this. I actually think it's better than both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi though most probably worse than Empire but I have such fond memories of those movies that it's hard to be objective. Jedi, especially, was my first Star Wars movie and it has some of my favourite moments out of the entire series so however much my brain might find fault with it, my heart refuses to listen. But yeah, I think that Lucas gets way too much flack for Sith, as it is the movie that pretty much redeemed the prequels.

[curefreak]

i just dont think he was able to capture the heart and soul of the original trilogy with the new ones,
especially the last two just seem cold and slightly heartless driven more by special effects than anything.
and thats another thing that bothers me this being a trilogy how does he explain the technology being more advanced than in the first trilogy?

[nonhosonno]

A terrible, terrible movie. The acting is banal, the dialogue is atrociously bad, even for a prequel to a 70's space opera, and the plot plods along to an inevitable conclusion.

Indeed. I left the theater knowing I'd never have to watch that overblown monument to dross ever again.

[nonhosonno]

especially the last two just seem cold and slightly heartless driven more by special effects than anything.

Seem. They are.

and thats another thing that bothers me this being a trilogy how does he explain the technology being more advanced than in the first trilogy?

He can't, but Luca$ would probably go for the "dark ages," i.e. technological regression, explanation. Which I don't buy.

[curefreak]

Seem. They are.



He can't, but Luca$ would probably go for the "dark ages," i.e. technological regression, explanation. Which I don't buy.
yeah i was thinking the same thing to an extent,
but it should be explained.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I think that they are getting revenge on how the Jedi defeated the Sith like 5,000 years ago and drove them all into exile, which instituted the rule of two.
Correction: The Old Sith Empire was defeated in the Great Hyperspace War, 5000 years after the Battle of Yavin. With the help of the Jedi, the Republic drove back the Sith and destroyed their Empire utterly. Some Sith, mainly Dark Lord Naga Sadow escaped, Sadow settled on Yavin IV. His Massassi built some temples, and he was put into a coma for 600 years. A fallen Jedi named Freedon Nadd awoken him, and Nadd was trained by Sadow to become the new Dark Lord, and an extremely powerful one. He conquered Onderon, and the royal line is directly descended from him.

Fast forward 400 years, to Beast Wars on Onderon. A Jedi Prodigy named Ulic Qel-Droma, his lover Jedi Knight Nomi Sunrider, and Jedi Master Arca Jeth help the Beast Riders, who's leader had married Princess Galia destroy the Sith Regime on Onderon during the Naddist Uprising. Jeth died in the struggle.

While training on Dantooine, another brash young Jedi Knight, named Exar Kun, viewed his master's, Master(supposedly Grand Master of the Order) Vodo-Siosk Baas holocron, and Kun fell after he thought he could master the Dark Side. He left his master and went to Onderon to find Dark Lord Freedon Nadd's tomb, which was incased in Mandalorian Iron on Onderon's moon of Dxun. Nadd instructed him to go to the Valley of the Dark Lords on the ancient Sith homeworld of Korriban to complete his training. Nadd and other long deceased Sith Lords tested the fallen Jedi, temporarily blinded him to all but the Dark Side of the Force, and caused a cave in in one of the tombs that he was exploring. The Sith gave him one final ultimatium: Fall completely to the Dark Side, or die. With his pride wounded, he refused to accept death and he dove further into the Dark Side, freeing himself. He emerged from the tomb a dark shadow of his former self.

To make his fall to the Dark Side complete, he journeyed to Yavin IV to plunder Naga Sadow's Temples. There he found the ancient Sith Warriors, the Massassi. Unable to use the Light Side of the Force again, he was easily captured. As one of the Massassi began to crush him, Nadd intervened. In what would be Kun's final moments before being completely corrupted by the Dark Side, Nadd instructed Kun to tap completely into the darkness within him. Kun stole the Sith Amulet on the Massassi were displaying during his sacrifice, he embraced the Dark Side with all his soul.

Transformed into an absolute agent of Darkness, Kun slayed his captors with incredible ease, and destroyed his master's spirit because he was tired of all the tests and trials.

There's a lot more, but in short, the Rule of Two was instituted 1000 years before the movies by Darth Bane.
A Master and an Apprentice. Always two there are, no more, no less.-Yoda
And before Darth Bane's reformation, there could be hundreds of thousands of Sith at a time.

[Sean Walsh]

He can't, but Luca$ would probably go for the "dark ages," i.e. technological regression, explanation. Which I don't buy.

Well, there are societies and civilizations in our world that (a) used to be the sh*t but got surpassed by everyone else and nowadays look like crap, and (b) are/were run by govt's that screwed everyone over and thus the country deteriorated and are outdated and just plain crappy.

On a galactic scale, though.........a bit tougher to explain. But there's *some* explanation, at least.

[Sean Walsh]

Like the "revenge" thing, that may be right, but it's still kind of vague.

I guess I was hoping for the various pieces to come together in a satisfying way in "Sith", but in the end most of the lingering questions from the first two movies were left lingering.

What I wanted from Sith:

- see Darth Vader kill lots of Jedi - check

- see Palpatine physically become the Emperor - check (I giggled - GIGGLE...OUT LOUD - when he put the cloak on)

- see the last time Vader and the Emperor appear in the movie on the bridge of a Star Destroyer - check (never thought I'd get this one - I did a literal spittake )

- see lil' Luke and Leia born and be given to their new parents - check

The first one didn't happen exactly the way I wanted, but Vader flying around the galaxy wasn't gonna happen within a realistic movie timeframe. But I got everything else.

[curefreak]

seeing revenge of the sith just makes me wish i owned the star wars boxset really bad:(

[SnowTrooper]

seeing revenge of the sith just makes me wish i owned the star wars boxset really bad:(
I wonder if Lucas is going to put out a prequel trilogy boxest, I bought the original trilogy and im going to be mad if he just puts out the complete saga.

[SnowTrooper]

Correction: The Old Sith Empire was defeated in the Great Hyperspace War, 5000 years after the Battle of Yavin. With the help of the Jedi, the Republic drove back the Sith and destroyed their Empire utterly. Some Sith, mainly Dark Lord Naga Sadow escaped, Sadow settled on Yavin IV. His Massassi built some temples, and he was put into a coma for 600 years. A fallen Jedi named Freedon Nadd awoken him, and Nadd was trained by Sadow to become the new Dark Lord, and an extremely powerful one. He conquered Onderon, and the royal line is directly descended from him.

Fast forward 400 years, to Beast Wars on Onderon. A Jedi Prodigy named Ulic Qel-Droma, his lover Jedi Knight Nomi Sunrider, and Jedi Master Arca Jeth help the Beast Riders, who's leader had married Princess Galia destroy the Sith Regime on Onderon during the Naddist Uprising. Jeth died in the struggle.

While training on Dantooine, another brash young Jedi Knight, named Exar Kun, viewed his master's, Master(supposedly Grand Master of the Order) Vodo-Siosk Baas holocron, and Kun fell after he thought he could master the Dark Side. He left his master and went to Onderon to find Dark Lord Freedon Nadd's tomb, which was incased in Mandalorian Iron on Onderon's moon of Dxun. Nadd instructed him to go to the Valley of the Dark Lords on the ancient Sith homeworld of Korriban to complete his training. Nadd and other long deceased Sith Lords tested the fallen Jedi, temporarily blinded him to all but the Dark Side of the Force, and caused a cave in in one of the tombs that he was exploring. The Sith gave him one final ultimatium: Fall completely to the Dark Side, or die. With his pride wounded, he refused to accept death and he dove further into the Dark Side, freeing himself. He emerged from the tomb a dark shadow of his former self.

To make his fall to the Dark Side complete, he journeyed to Yavin IV to plunder Naga Sadow's Temples. There he found the ancient Sith Warriors, the Massassi. Unable to use the Light Side of the Force again, he was easily captured. As one of the Massassi began to crush him, Nadd intervened. In what would be Kun's final moments before being completely corrupted by the Dark Side, Nadd instructed Kun to tap completely into the darkness within him. Kun stole the Sith Amulet on the Massassi were displaying during his sacrifice, he embraced the Dark Side with all his soul.

Transformed into an absolute agent of Darkness, Kun slayed his captors with incredible ease, and destroyed his master's spirit because he was tired of all the tests and trials.

There's a lot more, but in short, the Rule of Two was instituted 1000 years before the movies by Darth Bane.

And before Darth Bane's reformation, there could be hundreds of thousands of Sith at a time.
Damn you SuperSaiyaMan12, you always have to best me at Star Wars knowledge. I will get you sooner or later.

[curefreak]

I wonder if Lucas is going to put out a prequel trilogy boxest, I bought the original trilogy and im going to be mad if he just puts out the complete saga.
rick mcollum even hinted at it in one of the deleted scenes. and knowing luca$ he would.

[J. Robb]

Seeing Yoda and Chewbacca together was just surreal for me. When I was a kid I made a bunch of my own Star Wars comics (I still have most of them), and I did a story with Yoda on Kashyyyk meeting Chewie. So to see that 25 years later was kind of weird.

[nonhosonno]

Seeing Wookies for two whole minutes in Sith made it worthwhile. :rolleyes:

[the film freak]

They should do an all Wookie episode of the Star Wars show. Just Wookies beating the shit out of Stormtroopers, pounding their chest and making Wookie noises.

It would be the best 44 minutes of television ever.

[SnowTrooper]

I wish I could make wookie noises, thats way cooler than people language.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

i also wasn't verry fond of the original trilogy prior to sith.i thought the phantom menace was just a boring convuluted mess (outside the lightsaber fight that is),and attack of the clones was just slightly better IMO.and i thought what save that for me was the jedi battle on genosis.BUT after i rewatch those movies leading up to sith it was slowly but surely coming togeather.and when sith camed out it all made more sense to me.so i find my self liking the prequels alot more over the years.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

General Grievous still remains one of my favorite SW characters.

I love the way he always retreated when outgunned. Like a big, coughing rat.
and yet in the cartoon he was laying the smackdown...

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

another contradiction is that supposedly jedi dont kill,
but yet they wiped out the sith lords so they must have killed them.
.thats the point the jedi aren't perfect...i think thats what lucas tried to show.and the reason luke took the order in a different direction.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

I would have liked to see more conflict between jedi (other factors other than Palpatine's scheme). A down fall should happen on multiple levels.i think thats what the new clone wars catoon will show,so will the live action series.

[cactusmaac]

Seem. They are.



He can't, but Luca$ would probably go for the "dark ages," i.e. technological regression, explanation. Which I don't buy.

Was it less advanced in the OT? They didn't have small fighters capable of independent hyperspace flight or Death Stars around in the prequels.

[cactusmaac]

and yet in the cartoon he was laying the smackdown...

Tartakovsy and co. first thought Grievous was meant to be a badass, but Lucas decided to make him more of a coward leading up to Episode 3.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Was it less advanced in the OT? They didn't have small fighters capable of independent hyperspace flight or Death Stars around in the prequels.
The OT did go through a stage of Technological Stagnation, despite the Death Star's. And there were hyperdrive equipped fighters in the Prequels: N-1 Starfighters and ARC-170's had built in hyperdrives.

The New Republic corrected the stagnation, somewhat, when they instituted the New Class program.

[curefreak]

knee deep in fanboy speak i am.

[cactusmaac]

The OT did go through a stage of Technological Stagnation, despite the Death Star's. And there were hyperdrive equipped fighters in the Prequels: N-1 Starfighters and ARC-170's had built in hyperdrives.

The New Republic corrected the stagnation, somewhat, when they instituted the New Class program.

True.

Still technical stagnation can easily be explained by the high taxes and military spending of the Empire since Death Star development doesn't come cheap.

[curefreak]

True, although we didn't actually see them going to lightspeed in the movies.

Still technical stagnation can easily be explained by the high taxes and military spending of the Empire since Death Star development doesn't come cheap.
wow thats a pretty good explanation:)

[curefreak]

i posted on the game threads but i thought i would try it here: does anyone here have republic commando?
im sort of stuck on it ( damn genosians:mad: )

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

General Grievous still remains one of my favorite SW characters.

I love the way he always retreated when outgunned. Like a big, coughing rat.
Did you happen to watch the Clone Wars animated series? Grevious never ran from a Jedi, he dominated them in combat, laying down the smackdown.

[curefreak]

Did you happen to watch the Clone Wars animated series? Grevious never ran from a Jedi, he dominated them in combat, laying down the smackdown.
and he didnt even have four limbs in that one.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

My two cents on Revenge of the Sith: It is the strongest of the Prequel Trilogy, though the dialogue was still somewhat lacking for both Anakin and Padme, as well as Anakin's somewhat clueless reaction to the pains of childbirth which he saw in his dream.

Palpatine is the strongest character of Episode III, in terms of writing. Even though a three year old could see through his manipulations, everything really fit together even though he had but a rough guess, not a guaruntee that Anakin would join him in his office.

Seeing Wookie's on screen, as well as Venator-class Star Destroyers as well as the Death Star prototype(fuck Lucas, he's incredibly stupid if he thinks something like the Death Star doesn't need a prototype), and Vader and Obi-wan's duel was awesome, as well as Yoda vs Palpatine(even though Yoda had a clear advantage).

Anyway, I'd give it a 7.5/10, lower than what I give the Original Trilogy movies(ANH: 8.3/10, ESB: 9.9/10, and ROTJ: 8.9/10(lower on the scale due to the Ewoks)).

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

and he didnt even have four limbs in that one.
...he did. Last chapter, he uses all four arms to overwhelm Palpatine's Jedi Bodyguards.

[curefreak]

...he did. Last chapter, he uses all four arms to overwhelm Palpatine's Jedi Bodyguards.
damnit i hate you know:mad:

[curefreak]

the ones ive seen he only had two and used a foot.:o

[nonhosonno]

knee deep in fanboy speak i am.

HAHAHAHA!!! :D

[Silliw 2]

Did you happen to watch the Clone Wars animated series? Grevious never ran from a Jedi, he dominated them in combat, laying down the smackdown.

Of course I did, and when I saw the badass Grievous...well I wasn't impressed. An unbeatable, acrobatic, jedi slaying cyborg alien was just way too much of a 14 year old's wet dream to me.

When ROTS was released, I fell in love with Grievous. I'll never forget "You Lose, General Kenobi!" right before he makes his escape through space...pure sweetness to the maximum.

[curefreak]

general grevious sure is getting a lot of love on here:)

[J. Robb]

Isn't Grievous different in ROTS because he is injured? Mace Windu damaged his breathing apparatus or something, hence the wheezing?

[Silliw 2]

Isn't Grievous different in ROTS because he is injured? Mace Windu damaged his breathing apparatus or something, hence the wheezing?

That was the official explanation. The Clone Wars guys specifically put that scene into the end of the series for that reason. Apparently, the cartoon sort of jumped the gun and used Grievous before his character was fully fleshed out.

On the ROTS DVD (one of the features), they talk about the creation of Grievous. Pretty interesting stuff, and Lucas gave the art crew virtually complete freedom. His only requirement was that it be "a droid general".

Grievous' coughing was contributed by Lucas himself, who was sick at the time of recording (bronchitus, I think).

[Jared]

Quote:
Originally Posted by curefreak
and thats another thing that bothers me this being a trilogy how does he explain the technology being more advanced than in the first trilogy?


>Ummm...What was more advanced? Things do look shiner due to all the CG gloss, but nothing seemed more advanced to me. Hell, we even see that unlike the X-wings of the original trilogy, the Jedi starfighters don't have their own hyperdrives, having to use those booster attachments instead. And we see Star Destroyers and Imperial Walkers in the originals that basically look like bigger versions of things from the prequels. And then of course, there's the Death Star, which is only in the earliest stages by the end of Episode III.

[Jared]

Did you happen to watch the Clone Wars animated series? Grevious never ran from a Jedi, he dominated them in combat, laying down the smackdown.


Though he later did run from their Clone Trooper backup. As noted, Tartovski's people had very little to go on about Grievous when they were making volume 1, so they made him an unstoppable Jedi-killing machine, who seems all the more unstoppable due to the exaggerated nature of the action in the cartoons.

Thus, in Volume 2, it's made note that the Jedi he fought were tired. And Dooku advices him that he's no match for the best of the Jedi (such as Obi Wan), unless he has them surprised and psyched out. Mace's Force Crush to was a last minute thing to explain his cough, thoughtit's also appeared in some other material, like the comic story "Eyes of Revolution" which shows him being made. I think the idea is that he's had a long-standing condition, as if the cybernetic breathing apparatus isn't perfected, and what Mace did to him just aggravated it.

I guess it also ties in with my Vader's breathing is so loud, they just can't get the damn system to work right. :)

It's mentioned in one of the DVDs that the original plan had been to keep Grievous having four arms a secret until the movie, but it got out before then.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

For Star Wars: Galaxies, Grevious was 'revived'. There is this Necrosis droid that has all of Grevious's techniques and personality built into it.

[Silliw 2]

What the snap? Does it look like him?

I just watched the movie again, and Grievous still rules.

Oh and just to note, I don't care what anyone says, Yoda got his ass kicked. Palpatine (another great character in the movie) put the smack down.

People keep arguing that "if Yoda had not fallen, then he wouldn't have lost". BULLSNOOPY!!! Your telling me a Jedi Master who moves like Sonic the Hedgehog can't get back up to where Palpy was? And even if it was suicide, had he killed Palpatine, then the rebellion would have been won right there! Plus, the Sith would have been exterminated! I think Yoda would sacrifice his life for that.

[The Punished]

but then we wouldn't have need for the original trilogy so Yoda had to take a dive for the team [Just joking]

[Silliw 2]

"900 years I am...I'm tired damnit! Leave it to my successors I will, ahh!" *eats prunes and naps*

He's like a politician...leaving major problems to future generations!

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Of course I did, and when I saw the badass Grievous...well I wasn't impressed. An unbeatable, acrobatic, jedi slaying cyborg alien was just way too much of a 14 year old's wet dream to me.

.wich is why i loved him :D

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Though he later did run from their Clone Trooper backup. .yeah because those weren't ordinary clone troopers they were ARC TROOPERS,the most bad ass group in the universe.

[Jared]

yeah because those weren't ordinary clone troopers they were ARC TROOPERS,the most bad ass group in the universe.


Sorry to nitpick, but they were both. The guys that don't have special colored armors are technically just regular troopers, IIRC.

[Jared]

What the snap? Does it look like him?

I just watched the movie again, and Grievous still rules.

Oh and just to note, I don't care what anyone says, Yoda got his ass kicked. Palpatine (another great character in the movie) put the smack down.

People keep arguing that "if Yoda had not fallen, then he wouldn't have lost". BULLSNOOPY!!! Your telling me a Jedi Master who moves like Sonic the Hedgehog can't get back up to where Palpy was? And even if it was suicide, had he killed Palpatine, then the rebellion would have been won right there! Plus, the Sith would have been exterminated! I think Yoda would sacrifice his life for that.


Heck, notice that Yoda struggles, then *fails* to hang on to the edge of the pod, before he falls down to the fall. Considering how he'd been hopping around just moments before, I'd say that's a good indicator that he was spent.
Though the scene would be better if it didn't include that quick shot of a giggling Palpatine still clinging to the pod, with is feet dangling. It just looks undignified. Just hearing his laughter echo down the chamber, with the shot of Yoda's tattered robe, would have been perfect.

[Sean Walsh]

Sorry to nitpick, but they were both. The guys that don't have special colored armors are technically just regular troopers, IIRC.

Well, the higher class clonetroopers / ARC troopers were probably either genetically programmed to be better than the others, or just naturally better in battle situations thru their experience.

[the film freak]

What the snap? Does it look like him?

I just watched the movie again, and Grievous still rules.

Oh and just to note, I don't care what anyone says, Yoda got his ass kicked. Palpatine (another great character in the movie) put the smack down.

People keep arguing that "if Yoda had not fallen, then he wouldn't have lost". BULLSNOOPY!!! Your telling me a Jedi Master who moves like Sonic the Hedgehog can't get back up to where Palpy was? And even if it was suicide, had he killed Palpatine, then the rebellion would have been won right there! Plus, the Sith would have been exterminated! I think Yoda would sacrifice his life for that.

I don't get is why couldn't Obi Wan and Yoda eventually try to take down Palpatine together. Obi-Wan was still in his prime at the end of Episode III. And Yoda didn't seem that defeated. I mean that seems like a better plan then wait for a barely trained Luke and Leia to grow up. The situation didn't seem that hopeless to me at the end of the movie.

[estee]

The one thing that I didn't like about Hayden was his delivery. As an actor his delievery stank. He just couldn't pronounce or speak his lines very well.

As for the movie itself. Eh...it was good fun. Kid's will like it.

And as for Greivous...the first time I saw the flick, I wondered how a robot developed at smoker's cough.

[Magneto_X]

It's the best of the prequels, IMO.

I enjoyed it.

AOTC was bad, but in a guilty pleasure type of way. Jango Fett made that movie.

[Magneto_X]

What I wanted from Sith:

- see Darth Vader kill lots of Jedi - check


But Vader *didn't* do that. All he did was stab a young padiwan with a lightsaber (off-screen!) and let the Stormtroopers kill the rest in the temple.

The Stormtroopers and even the frickin Palpatine killed more Jedi than he did in ROTS.

(I did enjoy how they showed the Stormtroopers turn on the Jedi. That was one of the best scenes in the movie. It was such a sad thing to see.)

[Magneto_X]

I don't get is why couldn't Obi Wan and Yoda eventually try to take down Palpatine together. Obi-Wan was still in his prime at the end of Episode III. And Yoda didn't seem that defeated. I mean that seems like a better plan then wait for a barely trained Luke and Leia to grow up. The situation didn't seem that hopeless to me at the end of the movie.

1) PIS and 2) they'd have to get through all that security i.e. pratically unlimited
clones and growing plus the tech the Empire has on its side. Doing that would have been suicide and they'd never get within ten feet with Palpatine. Numbers eventually win---even against badass Jedi.

[the film freak]

1) PIS and 2) they'd have to get through all that security i.e. pratically unlimited
clones and growing plus the tech the Empire has on its side. Doing that would have been suicide and they'd never get within ten feet with Palpatine. Numbers eventually win---even against badass Jedi.

Yoda seemed to manage to infilitrate the Senate just fine on his own. And there were probably Clonetroopers all over that place. I find it hard to believe they couldn't do it again. I mean Obi Wan basically just walked into the Death Star in New Hope.

Also did they really need to take 20 years to organize an effective rebellion force? Wouldn't Yoda and Obi Wan better spend their time organizing a force to take down the Emperor then wait 20 years for Luke and Leia to do it for them.

The ending of the movie felt like the two of them just gave up. Things got a litle difficult and decided to wait for someone else to take care of it. I mean things had to turn out that way but it would have been nice to see the characters struggle more against their predestined fate. It's more interesting that way. And a tad more heroic.

Just saying.

What's PIS mean? I'm not down with all your newfangled acronyms.

[nonhosonno]

(I did enjoy how they showed the Stormtroopers turn on the Jedi. That was one of the best scenes in the movie. It was such a sad thing to see.)

Yeah, funny how even a few Jedi didn't sense that coming...:rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

Yeah, funny how even a few Jedi didn't sense that coming...:rolleyes:

Well, seeing as how it had been discussed since Episode II that the emerging presence of the dark side had been diminishing the Jedi's ability to use the force, and the fact that the younger Jedi were becoming arrogant and over-estimating their abilities, it kind of makes sense how they could be taken by surprise. And there were survivors. Not all the Jedi were killed in Episode III. The rest of the purge occurs between Episode's III and IV.

[The Batman]

Yoda seemed to manage to infilitrate the Senate just fine on his own. And there were probably Clonetroopers all over that place. I find it hard to believe they couldn't do it again. I mean Obi Wan basically just walked into the Death Star in New Hope.

Also did they really need to take 20 years to organize an effective rebellion force? Wouldn't Yoda and Obi Wan better spend their time organizing a force to take down the Emperor then wait 20 years for Luke and Leia to do it for them.

The ending of the movie felt like the two of them just gave up. Things got a litle difficult and decided to wait for someone else to take care of it. I mean things had to turn out that way but it would have been nice to see the characters struggle more against their predestined fate. It's more interesting that way. And a tad more heroic.

Just saying.

What's PIS mean? I'm not down with all your newfangled acronyms.

PIS = plot induced stupidity. basically it's when a character is made temporarily stupider than usual, or doesn't think of something really obvious in a given situation, in order for the plot to move along.

when Obi Wan walked into the Death Star it wasn't during a time when a Jedi Rebellion had just been uncovered and foiled and there was an active Jedihunt going on. during a New Hope most of the Imperials seemed to believe that there hadn't been any Jedi in quite some time.

also, Obi Wan didn't walk out of the Death Star either . . .


http://static.flickr.com/19/113567499_166f50d810_m.jpg


as for Yoda. he's retreat from the Emperor was essentially him recognizing that he'd been beaten, and beaten badly. he was beaten because every action he'd taken and every decision he'd made since Episode I had ultimately played into Darth Sidious's plan.

also, perhaps Yoda realized that had he defeated or killed Palpatine right then and there he'd have only confirmed for much of the people of the GFFA, and to Anakin/Darth Vader, that what Palpatine was saying about the Jedi wasn't entirely wrong. one of the tragedies of the Prequel films is that Palpatine didn't necessarily steal power directly but rather created a situation where people would hand it over to him, essentially trading freedom for supposed safety, and at the time he was likely popular with the majority of the GFFA's residents. even if Yoda had one he'd have still lost, from a certain point of view of course.

that or possibly during the fight he saw, through the Force, that it would be the Son of Skywalker and not him who'd redeem Anakin allowing him to bring an end to the Sith.

that Yoda recognizes the mistakes he made during the Prequel Era goes a long way towards explaining how he his outlook has changed during the Original Trilogy Era.

[cactusmaac]

Yoda seemed to manage to infilitrate the Senate just fine on his own. And there were probably Clonetroopers all over that place. I find it hard to believe they couldn't do it again. I mean Obi Wan basically just walked into the Death Star in New Hope.

Also did they really need to take 20 years to organize an effective rebellion force? Wouldn't Yoda and Obi Wan better spend their time organizing a force to take down the Emperor then wait 20 years for Luke and Leia to do it for them.

The ending of the movie felt like the two of them just gave up. Things got a litle difficult and decided to wait for someone else to take care of it. I mean things had to turn out that way but it would have been nice to see the characters struggle more against their predestined fate. It's more interesting that way. And a tad more heroic.


I doubt their plan at the time was waiting twenty years until the twins had grown up and training them to be Jedi. Otherwise they'd have taken them into their own care, as Jedi practice was to take recruits in from infancy.

Training Luke was literally the last throw of the dice and something Yoda did very reluctantly. It does seem apparent that by the time of TESB, Yoda was about the only living Jedi left. The rest had all been killed off in the interim.

Yoda didn't take Obi Wan with him because he didn't think he'd be able to hang with Palpatine in a lightsabre duel. All Palpatine would need would be to isolate Obi Wan for a few seconds and then he'd be killed like Mace's posse.


Yeah, funny how even a few Jedi didn't sense that coming

That's not surprising. They had all their attention focused on fighting the separatist armies, not watching their own backs.

[The Batman]

i agree that Yoda sent Obi-Wan to find Anakin as much to eliminate Darth Vader as to not have Obi-Wan killed by the Emperor.

also, there is the consideration of what Darth Vader might do if Sidious were to be taken out. would he make a bid for power? grab Padme and fall off the radar only reemerging when he was at full power and possibly able to take out both Yoda and Obi-Wan easily? sending Obi-Wan after Anakin eliminates these considerations and it also keeps Anakin from being able to aid Palpatine in any way.

also, I'm certain that if an opportunity presented itself that Yoda and Obi-Wan would've gladly taken out the Sith but it seemed that there plan was indeed to wait till the Skywalker twins, the only known beings in the GFFA that might potentially be strong enough in the Force to deal with both the Chosen One and Darth Sidious, were old enough to be trained.

[Captain Trips]

PIS = plot induced stupidity. basically it's when a character is made temporarily stupider than usual, or doesn't think of something really obvious in a given situation, in order for the plot to move along.

when Obi Wan walked into the Death Star it wasn't during a time when a Jedi Rebellion had just been uncovered and foiled and there was an active Jedihunt going on. during a New Hope most of the Imperials seemed to believe that there hadn't been any Jedi in quite some time.

also, Obi Wan didn't walk out of the Death Star either . . .

Also remember that it wasn't Obi-Wan's plan to infiltrate the Death Star. He was going to Alderaan. His only plan while on the Death Star was to ensure the escape of Han, Luke, and company. He wasn't there to bring down the Empire.

[SnowTrooper]

Yoda didn't take Obi Wan with him because he didn't think he'd be able to hang with Palpatine in a lightsabre duel. All Palpatine would need would be to isolate Obi Wan for a few seconds and then he'd be killed like Mace's posse.
Your underestimating Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan was the master of the Soresu, the most defensive form of lightsaber combat. Mace Windu acknowledged Kenobi's skills and called him the master of Soresu(in the ROTS novelization). Obi-Wan was among the best in the galaxy with a lightsaber. I think that it was Yoda that didnt want to fight Anakin, or Yoda sent Obi-Wan because Anakin trained in Soresu and Obi would be able to handle him better since hes the master of that form.

(Sorry if I sound too much like a Star Wars geek pulling out the forms of lightsaber combat)

[cactusmaac]

How good he actually was is besides the point. Yoda didn't think he was capable of fighting Sidious.

[SnowTrooper]

How good he actually was is besides the point. Yoda didn't think he was capable of fighting Sidious.
It was probably because of Palpatines strong knowledge of the Force. Obi-Wan wouldnt be able to handle flying metal seat things(cant think of the right word for what he was throwing) or all of the force lightning. Yoda is in the same league as Palpatine in terms of the Force, Yoda must have known Obi-Wan couldnt have fought him in that area. I totally overlooked that.

[Captain Trips]

as for Yoda. he's retreat from the Emperor was essentially him recognizing that he'd been beaten, and beaten badly. he was beaten because every action he'd taken and every decision he'd made since Episode I had ultimately played into Darth Sidious's plan.

also, perhaps Yoda realized that had he defeated or killed Palpatine right then and there he'd have only confirmed for much of the people of the GFFA, and to Anakin/Darth Vader, that what Palpatine was saying about the Jedi wasn't entirely wrong. one of the tragedies of the Prequel films is that Palpatine didn't necessarily steal power directly but rather created a situation where people would hand it over to him, essentially trading freedom for supposed safety, and at the time he was likely popular with the majority of the GFFA's residents. even if Yoda had one he'd have still lost, from a certain point of view of course.

that or possibly during the fight he saw, through the Force, that it would be the Son of Skywalker and not him who'd redeem Anakin allowing him to bring an end to the Sith.

that Yoda recognizes the mistakes he made during the Prequel Era goes a long way towards explaining how he his outlook has changed during the Original Trilogy Era.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I don't think that Yoda actually saw that it would be Luke who would redeem Anakin. Yoda had been aware that Qui-Gon had somehow gained a higher understanding of the Force and learned to use it as a way to communicate with the living world after death since Episode II. It was presented in Episode I that Qui-Gon's views of the Force differed from the majority of members of the Jedi Council. Yoda needed time to train to understand the Force in the way that Qui-Gon did. Yoda also wanted Obi-Wan to do the same.

I believe that Yoda felt the best way to defeat the Sith was through this higher understanding of the Force. Like you said, Yoda had been completely beaten at every turn, so he needed a new advantage. I don't think the idea was to wait just so Luke and Leia would old enough to be able to help them, but the simple fact that the children couldn't be trained until Obi-Wan and Yoda were ready to do it. And, also, they needed to be separated and hidden because they couldn't be protected otherwise.

[The Batman]

well i was just tossing the idea of viewing the future through the Force out there. i really think that at the end of the fight Yoda realized that he'd already been beaten and there was no way he could possibly win.

[kel25]

Yoda’s line about only 2 Sith really did seem odd. Because there was several Sith in these movies it always made me think that it was to trick the Jedi so they could hide their true numbers. I always had a hard time buying that the Sith do not want to share power. If this was really their motive there should have only been one true Sith ans his secrets died with him. Yes I read all of the posts so I know this isn't true but it's more logical to me.

I never could really buy Anikin becoming Darth Vader. It really did seem forced at best.

The technology never did seem to be downgraded to me. I recall reading that the stuff in the prequels didn’t have as powerful weapons, shields, etc as the originals had. If they did remember that the rebels are not a legal organization and have to deal with what equipment they can get their hands on. So them using sub-par equipment isn’t unreasonable. My problem with it was that it was all very sleek and some of it was very shiny. It seemed to stray away from the oddly shaped and gritty vehicles that SW is known for.

As for the prequels in general...
Phantom Menace has so much about it that was pure garbage I won’t even bother going into it. I’ve never been a big fan of the original movies or SW in general but this was one of the worst movies I’ve seen in my life.

Clone Wars wasn’t really what I was expecting. It had it’s dumb moments but nowhere near as bad as the first. It was an ok movie but not really memorable.

Revenge of the Sith was by far the best of these movies but overall was just a decent flick. Hayden’s and Portman’s acting was fairly weak. On top of that a lot of the dialogue was fairly bad but nowhere near as much in the previous two.

McGergor really did a great job in all of the movies.

[Captain Trips]

well i was just tossing the idea of viewing the future through the Force out there. i really think that at the end of the fight Yoda realized that he'd already been beaten and there was no way he could possibly win.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were wrong. I just didn't see it that way, but you could be right.

I completely agree with you about Yoda feeling that he couldn't win.

[Jared]

I don't get is why couldn't Obi Wan and Yoda eventually try to take down Palpatine together. Obi-Wan was still in his prime at the end of Episode III. And Yoda didn't seem that defeated. I mean that seems like a better plan then wait for a barely trained Luke and Leia to grow up. The situation didn't seem that hopeless to me at the end of the movie.

Double-teaming a Sith Lord didn't work out so well for Obi-Wan when he and Anakin fought Dooku. I guess it's like he's so much less powerful, he'd get in the way. Yet, being Anakin's teacher and best friend, he was probably best-suited to take him on in particular.

[Jared]

But Vader *didn't* do that. All he did was stab a young padiwan with a lightsaber (off-screen!) and let the Stormtroopers kill the rest in the temple.

The Stormtroopers and even the frickin Palpatine killed more Jedi than he did in ROTS.




On-screen, yeah. Though we can gather by inference that he killed alot himself, with him leading the march and all. The holovid briefly shows him fighting two or three people, of them Jedi Master "Cin Drallig", a cameo by stunt cooridinator Nick Gilliard. I did think the Order 66 montage should have included a scene or two of him slashing through Jedi in the temple though.

The novels and the videogames, by extension, pretty much portray him as being an absolute killing machine against everyone he encountered there.

[Jared]

Yoda’s line about only 2 Sith really did seem odd. Because there was several Sith in these movies it always made me think that it was to trick the Jedi so they could hide their true numbers. I always had a hard time buying that the Sith do not want to share power. If this was really their motive there should have only been one true Sith ans his secrets died with him..


Well most Sith understand that nobody lives forever, so attaining and hording power for yourself until you die is rather pointless, unless it's a part of some greater goal...like revenge against your sworn enemies or to bring about some vison of galactic order. Remember, the Sith order is a religion, with all that entails, after all, not just a club for guys who like red lightsabers.

[cactusmaac]

All the younglings were killed by Anakin. That's why Yoda commented they had lightsabre marks on their bodies and not blaster wounds.

[kel25]

All the younglings were killed by Anakin. That's why Yoda commented they had lightsabre marks on their bodies and not blaster wounds.Ugh I really hate calling them younglings.

Also it was a mercy killing so they would never know that people as stupid as JarJar Binks can become involved in politics.

[Captain Trips]

On-screen, yeah. Though we can gather by inference that he killed alot himself, with him leading the march and all. The holovid briefly shows him fighting two or three people, of them Jedi Master "Cin Drallig", a cameo by stunt cooridinator Nick Gilliard. I did think the Order 66 montage should have included a scene or two of him slashing through Jedi in the temple though.

The novels and the videogames, by extension, pretty much portray him as being an absolute killing machine against everyone he encountered there.

With the majority of the Jedi Masters spread throughout the galaxy in the Clone Wars, there were mostly Padawans and younglings in the Jedi Temple when Anakin attacked it. I would imagine he was a lot more powerful and skilled than just about anyone he faced there.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't know how detailed a plan either Yoda or Obi-Wan had at the end of Episode III. I think they basically realised they'd been so thoroughly manipulated that their only option was to retreat to the shadows and bide their time just as the Sith had and wait for the right opportunity to strike back.

When Obi-Wan heard that one of the Skywalker twins was now working for the Rebellion and needed help, he decided that this was time to bring Luke into the fold and take a crack at training him--without making the same mistakes he made with Anakin. Then, just as Qui-Gon had done with him, he guilted Yoda into going on with his plan by getting himself killed so Yoda would have no choice.

[Jared]

With the majority of the Jedi Masters spread throughout the galaxy in the Clone Wars, there were mostly Padawans and younglings in the Jedi Temple when Anakin attacked it. I would imagine he was a lot more powerful and skilled than just about anyone he faced there.

He was, but there were still some knights and masters there. Cin Drallig was the temple's main lightsaber instructor. And Shaak Ti was on the council. Both (unless it gets retconned in some future source) are presumed to have died by Anakin's hand. The game Battlefront II names several more, though it's depiction of the events inside the temple are pretty suspect, at best, in terms of what actually occured.

I haven't read them myself, but apparently one of the Dark Nest books describes a scene in which a group of Jedi had rallied into a defensive line and were keeping the Clone Troopers at bay, until Anakin showed up and cut through all of them.

Leading the attack on the temple wasn't a job for just anybody, it had to be one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

I just wish we knew if that's the reason he's called Darth Vader; because his first act is to invade the temple?

[Silliw 2]

Yoda’s line about only 2 Sith really did seem odd. Because there was several Sith in these movies it always made me think that it was to trick the Jedi so they could hide their true numbers. I always had a hard time buying that the Sith do not want to share power. If this was really their motive there should have only been one true Sith ans his secrets died with him. Yes I read all of the posts so I know this isn't true but it's more logical to me.


There are never more than 2 Sith at any given time during the course of the Saga.

The reason that they do not want to share power, is because of their past. The Sith used to be an empire, but all of the inner struggles for power eventually corrupted them so much that it resulted in the complete destruction of their empire.

Only Darth Bane survived, who reinvented the Sith with the rule of two.

Palpatine's creation of the Galactic Empire and the destruction of the Jedi is the Sith's ultimate revenge.

[Captain Trips]

He was, but there were still some knights and masters there. Cin Drallig was the temple's main lightsaber instructor. And Shaak Ti was on the council. Both (unless it gets retconned in some future source) are presumed to have died by Anakin's hand. The game Battlefront II names several more, though it's depiction of the events inside the temple are pretty suspect, at best, in terms of what actually occured.

I haven't read them myself, but apparently one of the Dark Nest books describes a scene in which a group of Jedi had rallied into a defensive line and were keeping the Clone Troopers at bay, until Anakin showed up and cut through all of them.

Leading the attack on the temple wasn't a job for just anybody, it had to be one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

I just wish we knew if that's the reason he's called Darth Vader; because his first act is to invade the temple?

I actually don't read any of the novels, but I agree with you that there were still some masters and knights in the Temple. No doubt that attacking the Temple wasn't a job for just anyone. Anakin has become incredibly powerful by the time of Episode III, and the only reason Obi-Wan can stay with him in a duel is because he trained him and knows his moves.

I believe I remember reading an interview with Lucas years ago where he said the name Darth Vader means "Dark Father." Now, I don't know if that means that Sidious named him that because of the fact that he knew that Padme was pregnant with Anakin's child (she did try to keep her pregnancy a secret, and, although Palpatine knows that she and Anakin are married, he never tells Anakin he knows she is pregnant), but it's possible. However, both Anakin and Sidious believe she died before giving birth, hence their surprise when they learn that the person responsible for blowing up the Death Star is Anakin's son.

[Magneto_X]

He was, but there were still some knights and masters there. Cin Drallig was the temple's main lightsaber instructor. And Shaak Ti was on the council. Both (unless it gets retconned in some future source) are presumed to have died by Anakin's hand. The game Battlefront II names several more, though it's depiction of the events inside the temple are pretty suspect, at best, in terms of what actually occured.

I haven't read them myself, but apparently one of the Dark Nest books describes a scene in which a group of Jedi had rallied into a defensive line and were keeping the Clone Troopers at bay, until Anakin showed up and cut through all of them.

Leading the attack on the temple wasn't a job for just anybody, it had to be one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

I just wish we knew if that's the reason he's called Darth Vader; because his first act is to invade the temple?


They should have filmed that instead. Not have Anikan kill some "younglings" off-screen.

[Cephus]

I never saw Episode 3, don't intend to. I saw the first one in the theater, it was horrible. I waited until the second one came out on DVD and rented it. It sucked. I don't care HOW Episode 3 is, honestly, I'm not going to feed the Lucas merchandizing machine and I'm not going to throw away another 2 hours of my life on a story that I really don't give a damn about. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars ended at the first trilogy, the rest was just George Lucas' "Gimme Money!" fund.

[BoosterBronze]

I never saw Episode 3, don't intend to. I saw the first one in the theater, it was horrible. I waited until the second one came out on DVD and rented it. It sucked. I don't care HOW Episode 3 is, honestly, I'm not going to feed the Lucas merchandizing machine and I'm not going to throw away another 2 hours of my life on a story that I really don't give a damn about. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars ended at the first trilogy, the rest was just George Lucas' "Gimme Money!" fund.

Ok, but how do you really feel about it?

[SnowTrooper]

I never saw Episode 3, don't intend to. I saw the first one in the theater, it was horrible. I waited until the second one came out on DVD and rented it. It sucked. I don't care HOW Episode 3 is, honestly, I'm not going to feed the Lucas merchandizing machine and I'm not going to throw away another 2 hours of my life on a story that I really don't give a damn about. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars ended at the first trilogy, the rest was just George Lucas' "Gimme Money!" fund.
Episode III was fantastic, so were Episodes I and II. I doubt that George Lucas needs a "Gimme Money!" fund, considering he makes more money than everybody on these message boards combined. If you this pissy about 3 great Star Wars movies im curious how your going to react to the live action TV show thats coming out in a couple years.

[nonhosonno]

I understand you're a SW nut, but "fantastic"? Come on. The only reason Ep3 is the "best" of the prequel trilogy is because it's marginally better than Ep2 and significantly better than Ep1, which should never have been made. But yes, there is a reason many type out "Luca$" with a dollar sign. ;)

[Legato]

I understand you're a SW nut, but "fantastic"? Come on. The only reason Ep3 is the "best" of the prequel trilogy is because it's marginally better than Ep2 and significantly better than Ep1, which should never have been made. But yes, there is a reason many type out "Luca$" with a dollar sign. ;)

Does it ever come across to you that the folks who do like Sith may not be a SW fanatic? I understand you hate it but pissing on the parade of those who do makes you no better than the "Fanatics" who do like it.

[Captain Trips]

I understand you're a SW nut, but "fantastic"? Come on. The only reason Ep3 is the "best" of the prequel trilogy is because it's marginally better than Ep2 and significantly better than Ep1, which should never have been made. But yes, there is a reason many type out "Luca$" with a dollar sign. ;)


Hey, to each his own. I really liked all the prequel movies as well. What's one man's trash is another man's treasure. I spent a lot of time here saying how crappy I thought Superman Returns is, yet a lot of people really liked it.

[Legato]

Hey, to each his own. I really liked all the prequel movies as well. What's one man's trash is another man's treasure. I spent a lot of time here saying how crappy I thought Superman Returns is, yet a lot of people really liked it.

I did the same thing with the first two Harry Potter films so your not exactly alone.

[SnowTrooper]

I am a Star Wars Fanatic and Star Wars Nut. I loved all of the movies and think that science fiction movies wouldnt be where its at today with the Star Wars Saga.

[BoosterBronze]

I understand you're a SW nut, but "fantastic"? Come on. The only reason Ep3 is the "best" of the prequel trilogy is because it's marginally better than Ep2 and significantly better than Ep1, which should never have been made. But yes, there is a reason many type out "Luca$" with a dollar sign. ;)

I'm all about hating on Lucas because he made a lot of bread making some movies. I say we extend it to all forms of entertainment.

$teven $peilberg isn't going hungry, so I hope you didn't like "ET"
Ridley $cott made plenty of money off "Gladiator" so you can't like that.
Jo$$ Whedon isn't going broke off his "Buffy" checks.
Brian Bendi$$, Kurt Bu$iek, Chi$ Claremont and other comic writers get paid too. Screw them.
$teven King!? Don't get me started.

Frankly, I only respect the work of artists who don't make money off the millions of people who like their work. The only way I'd watch Revenge of the Sith is if Lucas took all the money it made, and burnt it, just to show that he made that movie for the FANS!

[Legato]

I'm all about hating on Lucas because he made a lot of bread making some movies. I say we extend it to all forms of entertainment.

$teven $peilberg isn't going hungry, so I hope you didn't like "ET"
Ridley $cott made plenty of money off "Gladiator" so you can't like that.
Jo$$ Whedon isn't going broke off his "Buffy" checks.
Brian Bendi$$, Kurt Bu$iek, Chi$ Claremont and other comic writers get paid too. Screw them.
$teven King!? Don't get me started.

Frankly, I only respect the work of artists who don't make money off the millions of people who like their work. The only way I'd watch Revenge of the Sith is if Lucas took all the money it made, and burnt it, just to show that he made that movie for the FANS!

Is thare any fact based on what you just said. No offense but it just sounds like your hating the ones you listed based on their popularity.

[cactusmaac]

I think his point is that plenty of creative types make lots of money from their works without being accused of simply doing it for $$$$$$$$.

If Luca$ :rolleyes: was in it for the money, he'd have whored the franchise out a long, long time ago.

Kneejerk fanboy stupidity like that is what gives fandom a bad name.

[Legato]

I think his point is that plenty of creative types make lots of money from their works without being accused of simply doing it for $$$$$$$$.

If Luca$ :rolleyes: was in it for the money, he'd have whored the franchise out a long, long time ago.

Kneejerk fanboy stupidity like that is what gives fandom a bad name.

I know what you mean. If you hate the maker for his work then atleast come up with a better reason than that.

[hugh45]

One thing E:III did for me is to go back and see SW I in a whole new light.
I always wonder why Darth hated O.W. so much.I even enjoyed SW I
more because of the background of E:III.

[Captain Trips]

Is thare any fact based on what you just said. No offense but it just sounds like your hating the ones you listed based on their popularity.

Yeah, I think he's being sarcastic. And he's making a good point.

[Captain Trips]

I think his point is that plenty of creative types make lots of money from their works without being accused of simply doing it for $$$$$$$$.

If Luca$ :rolleyes: was in it for the money, he'd have whored the franchise out a long, long time ago.

Kneejerk fanboy stupidity like that is what gives fandom a bad name.

I couldn't agree more.

[nonhosonno]

Does it ever come across to you that the folks who do like Sith may not be a SW fanatic? I understand you hate it but pissing on the parade of those who do makes you no better than the "Fanatics" who do like it.

No need to be defensive. Somebody wrote the prequels (not just Sith) were "fantastic." I scoffed, but there's a lot of that going on around these forums. Your response would be better directed towards Cephus.

I spent a lot of time here saying how crappy I thought Superman Returns is, yet a lot of people really liked it.I did the same thing with the first two Harry Potter films so your not exactly alone.

Well, how about that. Sounds like a case of "pot, meet kettle" to me. I liked Superman Returns (though it could've been a lot better) and I hate anything and everything that has to do with Hairy Pothead, and I've vocalized plenty where those are concerned. You just need to understand everyone has their likes and dislikes, but even old school SW fans recognize how the prequels fall short.

[nonhosonno]

Kneejerk fanboy stupidity like that is what gives fandom a bad name.

That's exactly how I feel re: "SW apologetics."

[Kyle_Ion]

I'm a huge star wars fan and nut, shoot I have episode 1,2,3,4,5,6 and I have just about every single star wars book out there and toys, if you were to walk in my room you'd see star wars posters every where with a book shelf with star wars books and a table with star wars toys and the movies of course. I see each movie as a chapter to a book if you will. Of course I enjoyed the whole anakin/obi wan fight, that was just awesome.

[kmeyers]

One thing E:III did for me is to go back and see SW I in a whole new light.
I always wonder why Darth hated O.W. so much.I even enjoyed SW I
more because of the background of E:III.
I always remember hearing rumors and speculation about how Darth Vader came to be, during the Original Trilogy.

...something about him falling into a volcano. Very vague.

[Black Atom]

I actually think Episode I is the best Prequel. It easily has the clearest narrative of the three. EpII is a trainwreck story-wise that EpIII is burdened with clumsily sorting out.

[kel25]

There are never more than 2 Sith at any given time during the course of the Saga.During the first movie Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Palpatine were all alive and Sith. On top of that if the Sith are a pseudo religion why would they only have one member? There only being two Sith at one time really doesn’t make much sense to me.

It would be more reasonable to believe that for every hundred Jedi there is one Sith. At the same time the Sith tend to be very careful to hide in the shadows otherwise they would have Jedi hunting them down.

[Magneto_X]

The Jedi do seem to give the Sith new underlings for the Emporer in the prequels. lol

Darth Maul got killed? He's Count Dooku. Dooku dies? Don't worry, Vader is right over here. :D

[ChrisIII]

In the "Clone Wars" comics, novels, animation and games, Dooku does have dark Jedi underlings on his side-they're not Sith though-apparentally to be a Sith requires some kind of secret knowledge that the DJ aren't allowed to have.

BTW Dooku converted after TPM. Part of the reason for his turn was the death of Qui-Gon, who was his former Padawan.

[cactusmaac]

During the first movie Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Palpatine were all alive and Sith. On top of that if the Sith are a pseudo religion why would they only have one member? There only being two Sith at one time really doesn’t make much sense to me.

It would be more reasonable to believe that for every hundred Jedi there is one Sith. At the same time the Sith tend to be very careful to hide in the shadows otherwise they would have Jedi hunting them down.

Dooku was recruited as a Sith after Maul died.

[Jared]

s.

I believe I remember reading an interview with Lucas years ago where he said the name Darth Vader means "Dark Father." Now, I don't know if that means that Sidious named him that because of the fact that he knew that Padme was pregnant with Anakin's child (she did try to keep her pregnancy a secret, and, although Palpatine knows that she and Anakin are married, he never tells Anakin he knows she is pregnant), but it's possible. However, both Anakin and Sidious believe she died before giving birth, hence their surprise when they learn that the person responsible for blowing up the Death Star is Anakin's son.


That's the real-life reasoning behind the name. Vader is the dutch word for father, or similar to it.

[Cephus]

Episode III was fantastic, so were Episodes I and II. I doubt that George Lucas needs a "Gimme Money!" fund, considering he makes more money than everybody on these message boards combined. If you this pissy about 3 great Star Wars movies im curious how your going to react to the live action TV show thats coming out in a couple years.

Sorry, but Episodes I and II were not fantastic, they were complete fanwanking crap. And I'll treat the TV show the same way I treated Episode III, I'll ignore it entirely and not watch it.

[The Batman]

Episode III was fantastic, so were Episodes I and II. I doubt that George Lucas needs a "Gimme Money!" fund, considering he makes more money than everybody on these message boards combined. If you this pissy about 3 great Star Wars movies im curious how your going to react to the live action TV show thats coming out in a couple years.

the biggest argument against the Prequels being a cash grab on Lucas's part are the fact that he was so hands on involved in their production. he could've very easily hired them out to people and just reaped the financial rewards.

it seems unfair to call George Lucas a sellout or to spell his name 'Luca$' on messageboards.

[Cephus]

I am a Star Wars Fanatic and Star Wars Nut. I loved all of the movies and think that science fiction movies wouldnt be where its at today with the Star Wars Saga.

That's probably, unfortunately, true, considering that most science fiction movies these days are turning into mindless CGI eye-candy with no plot. Kind of like the new Star Wars movies. If that's the destiny of SF, screw that, I pass.

[Cephus]

the biggest argument against the Prequels being a cash grab on Lucas's part are the fact that he was so hands on involved in their production. he could've very easily hired them out to people and just reaped the financial rewards.

He is reaping the financial rewards, the biggest money in Star Wars has always been the merchandizing and Lucas whored out the Star Wars brand name to anyone who would slap it on a lunchbox. Whatever he made on the movies is miniscule to what he makes on merchandizing, and Lucas has always been the one who ran all of the merchandizing on Star Wars, it's what made him a very, very rich man.

[Captain Trips]

He is reaping the financial rewards, the biggest money in Star Wars has always been the merchandizing and Lucas whored out the Star Wars brand name to anyone who would slap it on a lunchbox. Whatever he made on the movies is miniscule to what he makes on merchandizing, and Lucas has always been the one who ran all of the merchandizing on Star Wars, it's what made him a very, very rich man.

The merchandizing deal that Lucas made with toys and the like was one of the first of its kind. What you call "whoring out" was an investment that Lucas made during the very first Star Wars movie back in 1977. Once again, I find it really inane to express such venom towards the fact that someone had the forsesight to find ways to make money on a property that he owns and finances. Lucasfilm approves every piece of Star Wars material produces, from video games to comic books to novels.

So what if Star Wars made him rich? Why does that bother people so much? If you don't like the movies or the books or whatever. don't buy the merchandise or go to the theaters to see the films. Like I said, to each his own, and I'm not knocking your opinions of the quality of the films or anything like that. But I just don't understand the bitterness that seems to come from the fact that this franchise has been a phenomenal moneymaker. If I've misinterpreted what you're feelings are, than I apoligize. It just sounds that way to me from your post.

[The Batman]

Star Wars movies and Star Wars merchandising are two seperate things. what Lucas, or more likely Lucasfilm since i'm not sure what Lucas's hands on involvement with the merchandising is exactly, does with Star Wars isn't any different than what DC does with Batman and Superman, Marvel with Spidey, or J.K. Rowling with Harry Potter.

though in my experience Star Wars does tend to have the better quality of merchandise.

but the films and the merchandise are too different things and if Lucas saw that films as merely a source of income he'd have likely not devoted a decade of his time and energy to the Prequel films.

and lets, for a moment, be realistic here. Lucas wants to make money, of course he does. most everyone does. for Lucas money means the freedom to do what he wants, make the films he wants to make or not make films and spend time with his family which by most accounts is important to him.

if Star Wars merchandise is such a problem for people then just don't buy it. that's really the only way to make it go away.

[Captain Trips]

Sorry, but Episodes I and II were not fantastic, they were complete fanwanking crap. And I'll treat the TV show the same way I treated Episode III, I'll ignore it entirely and not watch it.

No offense, but if you've never seen it, then how are you qualified to speak on it? If you're ignoring it entirely, then why are you posting about it.

All I'm saying is give it a chance before you condemn it. If you don't like it after that, then that's cool. But you seem to feel that everyone has to admit that these films were bad. I disagree. I imagine there's some things you like that others would find not so hot. It's all a matter of taste and opinion.

I said how I don't like Superman Returns, and I'll never understand how anyone could like Buffy or Angel. But I don't badmouth those properties or want people to admit that they're fluff. And, just for the record, I'm a SW fan and have been since I saw the first film when I was little. But I don't read the comics or the books. I don't have any SW posters or blankets or wallpaper or anything like that. I'm a fan but not a fanatic. And you don't have to be a fanatic to like these films.

[Captain Trips]

of course he is reaping the financial rewards. but Star Wars movies and Star Wars merchandising are two seperate things.

I understand, but I never said they weren't. Why does it matter?

[The Batman]

my post wasn't really directed at you. i appreciate your point about Star Wars merchandising being an investment on Lucas's part.

[Captain Trips]

my post wasn't really directed at you. i appreciate your point about Star Wars merchandising being an investment on Lucas's part.

Ah, ok. Again, I'm not trying to knock anyone's opinions. I'm just trying to understand everyone's point of view.

Edit: I responded to your post before reading the longer one you wrote about the difference between the two. I agree with you 100% on that.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Episode III was fantastic, so were Episodes I and II. I doubt that George Lucas needs a "Gimme Money!" fund, considering he makes more money than everybody on these message boards combined. If you this pissy about 3 great Star Wars movies im curious how your going to react to the live action TV show thats coming out in a couple years.
...only Episode III was passable. Episode I had Padme running the pedophile guantlet, the weakest Sith Lord ever, the most annoying character, Jar Jar binks in almost every scene, and sucky battledroids. Episode II, while better than Episode I, still didn't have the magic that the Original Trilogy had, plus was saddled with extremely horrible dialogue, wooden romance and whiney Anakin(Isn't Anakin suppose to be an, you know, BADASS by this point?).

Nothing about Episdoes 1 and 2 even merit them a passing grade in my book.

[drwho]

If they decided to redo episode 4-6 with new actors and special effects would people go see it?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

If they decided to redo episode 4-6 with new actors and special effects would people go see it?
No. Because it'd ruin the story. Mark Hamil is Luke Skywalker, no one else can portray him. Carrie Fisher is Leia Organa Skywalker-Solo, and no one else can portray her. Harrison Ford is the only one who can pull of Han Solo, no one else can portray him.

[Black Atom]

...only Episode III was passable. Episode I had Padme running the pedophile guantlet, the weakest Sith Lord ever, the most annoying character, Jar Jar binks in almost every scene, and sucky battledroids. Episode II, while better than Episode I, still didn't have the magic that the Original Trilogy had, plus was saddled with extremely horrible dialogue, wooden romance and whiney Anakin(Isn't Anakin suppose to be an, you know, BADASS by this point?).

Nothing about Episdoes 1 and 2 even merit them a passing grade in my book.

I thought Darth Maul was a much more effective and cool-looking throaway villain than Dooku or Grievous.

Also, unlike Episodes II and III, there was nothing really unnatural or creepy about Padme and Anakin's relationship in Episode I. Even though the audience knew they'd hook up, there was no romance between them at that point. Much more palatable than Anakin's unwelcomed groping in II or their nausea-inducing newlywed dialog in III.

Plus, Episode III has "NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo" which is probably one of the worst things in cinematic history to date. I actually turn the movie off before it gets to that point. Honestly, there could be a 5 minute scene with Vader taking a dump that would do less damage to my reverence of this
character than that one moment.

[BoosterBronze]

...only Episode III was passable. Episode I had Padme running the pedophile guantlet, the weakest Sith Lord ever, the most annoying character, Jar Jar binks in almost every scene, and sucky battledroids. Episode II, while better than Episode I, still didn't have the magic that the Original Trilogy had, plus was saddled with extremely horrible dialogue, wooden romance and whiney Anakin(Isn't Anakin suppose to be an, you know, BADASS by this point?)..

Since Darth Maul was the first Sith Lord we'd ever seen, doesn't that make him, be definition, the best we'd ever seen? He did ice a Jedi pretty handily.

And the fact that you had WISHED Anakin was badass in Ep. II, doesn't mean it was a mistake that he wasn't.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Since Darth Maul was the first Sith Lord we'd ever seen, doesn't that make him, be definition, the best we'd ever seen? He did ice a Jedi pretty handily.
...there are OTHER Sith Lords before Maul that would crush Dozens of Jedi Knights of the modern era single handily. How much of Star Wars have you read, played, or seen in the EU?
And the fact that you had WISHED Anakin was badass in Ep. II, doesn't mean it was a mistake that he wasn't.
I'd have prefered a badass Anakin over an Emo.

[Captain Trips]

IPlus, Episode III has "NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo" which is probably one of the worst things in cinematic history to date. I actually turn the movie off before it gets to that point. Honestly, there could be a 5 minute scene with Vader taking a dump that would do less damage to my reverence of this character than that one moment.

LOL. Is it still possible for Anakin to take a dump or does the suit make that not possible?

[Silliw 2]

I thought Darth Maul was a much more effective and cool-looking throaway villain than Dooku or Grievous.


He's basing this "fact" on the feats from KOTOR...a video game. Maul is not the weakest Sith ever.

I always love it when people just barge into a SW's thread and start knocking Lucas just because you the prequels weren't exactly like the original movies.

You've made your point, so quit repeating yourselves.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

He's basing this "fact" on the feats from KOTOR...a video game. Maul is not the weakest Sith ever.
KOTOR I and II are canon, and from cinematics and text, you learn that the Jedi and Sith of that era are on an whole other different level than the movie Jedi and Sith from the movies. And, there are also guys like Exar Kun(guy who can freeze time and pull ships out of gas giants), Ulic Qel-Droma(guy who took months of Karath torture before falling, and both his and Kun's blows were shattering the environment around them), and others(Bane, Kreia, Marka Ragnos, etc). And ever heard of Darth Nihilus, Star War's answer to Galactus?


And, check out Rumbles some time. Maul is the weakest. He has the lowest feats, especially in TK, and the lowest combat feats displayed. He was nothing more than a failure of a Sith.

[Black Atom]

LOL. Is it still possible for Anakin to take a dump or does the suit make that not possible?

He still has to pass waste, I imagine. Who knows for sure?


He's basing this "fact" on the feats from KOTOR...a video game. Maul is not the weakest Sith ever.

I simply don't acknowledge EU fanwankery, anyway so...

[Silliw 2]

Lol, whatever dude, I'm not going to argue with you. I just wish you wouldn't pass your opinion off as fact.

And just because some people on the CBRumble thread think Maul would cut himself in half, it doesn't make it true.

Anyway, One thing that ROTS did to throw me for a loop was showing so many different environments. We see Felucia, Mygeeto, Coruscant, Mustafar, Utapau, Polis Masa, Kashyyk, and the interior of The Invisible Hand (Grievous' flagship). I think that is the most varied showing of planets/ asteroids/ Capitol ships in any SW movie. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Also, while on the subject of environments, I was a bit disapointed with the Kashyyk segment. I was looking foward to seeing a Wookie city, rather than just a beach front.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I simply don't acknowledge EU fanwankery, anyway so...
So you refused to acknowledge stories which are better written than anything Lucas did in the prequels? That some stories, even if you say EU Wankery, had the magic that the Original Trilogy displayed and the Prequel's lost?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Lol, whatever dude, I'm not going to argue with you. I just wish you wouldn't pass your opinion off as fact.

And just because some people on the CBRumble thread think Maul would cut himself in half, it doesn't make it true.
It was proved true, that if it wasn't for PIS, that Maul would have cut himself in half during the match. He simply doesn't have the feats to measure up to the movie Big Boys, much less the EU.

[Silliw 2]

So you refused to acknowledge stories which are better written than anything Lucas did in the prequels? That some stories, even if you say EU Wankery, had the magic that the Original Trilogy displayed and the Prequel's lost?

STOOOOOP! Come on man, make a seperate thread for this. Some people don't like EU. I love the EU, but not all of it is either good nor cannon. Sith lords blowing up planets? Come on, now...this isn't DBZ.

And quit hating on Lucas, just make another thread and we'll all discuss it there.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

STOOOOOP! Come on man, make a seperate thread for this. Some people don't like EU. I love the EU, but not all of it is either good nor cannon. Sith lords blowing up planets? Come on, now...this isn't DBZ.

And quit hating on Lucas, just make another thread and we'll all discuss it there.
Actually, Darth Nihilus didn't blow up a planet, he killed everyone on it using the Force, he actually ate everyone on it like Galactus did. Including the surviving 100 Jedi, the only survivor was Visas Marr. Play KOTOR II to learn more. Both KOTOR I and II displayed a better plot and setting than the Prequels did, and they had the magic still in them, which the Prequels lacked. You actually got to see what Kashyyyk looks like and more of wookie culture in KOTOR I than we ever got in Episode III, like Life Debts, the Shadowlands, etc. And most EU, like the KOTOR games and comics falls under C-Canon.

No Jedi or Sith has blown up planets without a superweapon, by the way.

[nonhosonno]

Plus, Episode III has "NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo" which is probably one of the worst things in cinematic history to date. I actually turn the movie off before it gets to that point. Honestly, there could be a 5 minute scene with Vader taking a dump that would do less damage to my reverence of this
character than that one moment.

LMAO!!! Indeed, that Nooooooooooooo!!! bullcrap was awful. Actually, it's one of the many facets of the prequel trilogy that goads me to regard each film as a "dramedy," except they're not as funny or dramatic as Spaceballs.

Too many members are assuming posters like Cephus and myself have an axe to grind because Luca$ wipes his rear with $50 bills. That is not the case. Yes, the man is successful. And who doesn't want to be? Who wouldn't want to do comics, movies, music, porn, or any combination of those, and be paid for it? The reality is we PAY (well, most of us do) for these indulgences, and when we pay for something, the right to criticize, to evaluate, comes with the receipt or ticket stub. I have absolutely no problem paying for a quality product, which is why I have many shelves and boxes loaded with CDs, DVDs, comics, magazines, and books. When it comes down to the SW prequel films, they practically double as primers on faulty plotting and scripting, sub-par (bad) acting, and a gross overreliance on CGI. There's barely anything for the non-CGI actors to "re-act" to, save when they're interacting with each other. Obi-Wan and Mace look stoic as they "turn to face Yoda." Mace looks like he's in a trance when he's walking down a hallway filled with more funky lifeforms than you can shake a Red Vine at. No, it's not because he's accustomed to seeing nonhuman life on a regular basis, it's because there was nothing there that wasn't added in later. And the confrontation between Palpatine and Yoda stunk.

While the aforementioned Vader transformation scene is hilarious, nothing made me laugh more than when I read on some forum (I forget which, but it may have been this one) what one guy described Palpatine as after Mace's death.

"A melted Alan Alda." :D

P.S. THX-1138 was on the tube the other week, and I hadn't seen it since I was a kid. It, too, is a better movie than the prequels.

[Silliw 2]

Yeah, but for how long can you complain about a movie not meeting your expectations? We get it, point made.

I loved the Yoda/ Palpatine battle. Highlight of the movie. My opinion.

If you don't like the products, then don't buy. I just don't understand coming into a ROTS discussion and knocking all over Lucas and the entire prequel trilogy in more than one post.

Make a prequel/ Lucas thread.

[BoosterBronze]

And, check out Rumbles some time. Maul is the weakest. He has the lowest feats, especially in TK, and the lowest combat feats displayed. He was nothing more than a failure of a Sith.

We see Mauler fight two guys, one of whom he kills, one of whom he dominates but gets killed by because of overconfidence. I don't need his D&D stats to know he's an asskicker.

Actually, Darth Nihilus didn't blow up a planet, he killed everyone on it using the Force, he actually ate everyone on it like Galactus did.

Yeah, but people were weaksauce in the Old Republic. It was easier to kill a planet back then. In the Old Republic you could kill someone by looking at them crosseyed, you didn't even NEED the force. By the era of the prequals people had evolved.

[Black Atom]

So you refused to acknowledge stories which are better written than anything Lucas did in the prequels? That some stories, even if you say EU Wankery, had the magic that the Original Trilogy displayed and the Prequel's lost?

There are some I like and some I don't. For simplicity's sake, I only count the movies as canon so I don't have to reconcile the often-confliction visions (good or bad) of several different authors. It's hard enough to reconcile the events of the Prequels with that of the original trilogy.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

We see Mauler fight two guys, one of whom he kills, one of whom he dominates but gets killed by because of overconfidence. I don't need his D&D stats to know he's an asskicker.
He killed Qui-gon through PIS only. Any competent swordsman could have exploted the DBL's weaknesses and cut down Maul with ease. The only way Maul survived was because the plot asked for it.


Yeah, but people were weaksauce in the Old Republic. It was easier to kill a planet back then. In the Old Republic you could kill someone by looking at them crosseyed, you didn't even NEED the force. By the era of the prequals people had evolved.
Okay, har har. Real funny joke</sarcasm>

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

There are some I like and some I don't. For simplicity's sake, I only count the movies as canon so I don't have to reconcile the often-confliction visions (good or bad) of several different authors. It's hard enough to reconcile the events of the Prequels with that of the original trilogy.
The Original Trilogy and the Prequels kind of conflict each other plotwise. Lucas didn't do a really good job connecting them.

[Silliw 2]

There's no use arguing with him. I've tried.

He claims Maul was "proven" to be fated to cut himself in half :rolleyes: Yeeeeeaaaaaaah.

Seriously, it's pointless, and will get the thread closed.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

There's no use arguing with him. I've tried.

He claims Maul was "proven" to be fated to cut himself in half :rolleyes: Yeeeeeaaaaaaah.
The way he wielded the DBL did kind of show that, if not for the plot requirement, he would have cut himself in half, or had Qui-gon do it for him. Read CBF's analysis of the DBL and Darth Maul's fighting style, he proved that Maul was a poor fighter and had a bad weapon.

[Silliw 2]

I will give you points on one thing...you know good games.

KOTOR is a must play for any Star Wars fan. Doesn't matter if you like preqels better, or the OT, KOTOR mixes the best of both worlds.

[cactusmaac]

Yeah, no point arguing here guys.

I made the point over at Rumbles that criticising Maul's lightsabre fighting style is a bit redundant given that all the people using lightsabres in the movies - heck anyone using an edged weapon in any movie ever - had styles that were inherently dangerous and easily beatable by someone with real grounding in swordfighting.

Doesn't make any difference to the DBL PIS crowd.

[Black Atom]

LMAO!!! Indeed, that Nooooooooooooo!!! bullcrap was awful. Actually, it's one of the many facets of the prequel trilogy that goads me to regard each film as a "dramedy," except they're not as funny or dramatic as Spaceballs.

Too many members are assuming posters like Cephus and myself have an axe to grind because Luca$ wipes his rear with $50 bills. That is not the case. Yes, the man is successful. And who doesn't want to be? Who wouldn't want to do comics, movies, music, porn, or any combination of those, and be paid for it? The reality is we PAY (well, most of us do) for these indulgences, and when we pay for something, the right to criticize, to evaluate, comes with the receipt or ticket stub. I have absolutely no problem paying for a quality product, which is why I have many shelves and boxes loaded with CDs, DVDs, comics, magazines, and books. When it comes down to the SW prequel films, they practically double as primers on faulty plotting and scripting, sub-par (bad) acting, and a gross overreliance on CGI. There's barely anything for the non-CGI actors to "re-act" to, save when they're interacting with each other. Obi-Wan and Mace look stoic as they "turn to face Yoda." Mace looks like he's in a trance when he's walking down a hallway filled with more funky lifeforms than you can shake a Red Vine at. No, it's not because he's accustomed to seeing nonhuman life on a regular basis, it's because there was nothing there that wasn't added in later. And the confrontation between Palpatine and Yoda stunk.

While the aforementioned Vader transformation scene is hilarious, nothing made me laugh more than when I read on some forum (I forget which, but it may have been this one) what one guy described Palpatine as after Mace's death.

"A melted Alan Alda." :D


Yeah, it's weird. I had never, ever in my life been embarrassed for loving Star Wars until Episode III. That's right even including Jar Jar. And it actually happens on three occasions:

1) R2s "funny" antics in the opening sequence
2) Palpatine's transformation
3) "NOOOOOOOooooooooo!"

The latter two are the worst, because they're supposed to be powerful and moving, but only inspire laughter.

[Silliw 2]

Lol, R2's little heroic bit was so dumb, imo. That could have been completely omitted. His actions while confronting Grievous were much less awkward.

And I'll admit it...I laughed at "NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!".

Who Didn't!?!? Seriously, I almost choked on a sweetart. But after watching the movie over and over, about the third time through, the scene actually wasn't so bad.

Lucas says it is suppose to echo Luke's "NNNNNOOOOOOOO!!!" from ESB. I wonder if people laughed at that one too!

[SnowTrooper]

Star Wars Episode III(and most of the prequel trilogy) gets a bad rap from people that were totally in love with the original trilogy when it came out. I dont understand why though. I didnt get into Star Wars until Episode I came out but if I was around during the original trilogy I would have been dying for more of the story. Yes its hard for actors to react to CGI characters and CGI surroundings but CGI is what made the prequels visually epic(space battle above Corusant for instance) and good. I would much rather have stale acting(I personally didnt think it was all that bad) than crappy props and special effects. If the prequel trilogy was never made alot of people, myself included, would have never gotten into Star Wars. I just hope they make more movies.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Star Wars Episode III(and most of the prequel trilogy) gets a bad rap from people that were totally in love with the original trilogy when it came out. I dont understand why though. I didnt get into Star Wars until Episode I came out but if I was around during the original trilogy I would have been dying for more of the story. Yes its hard for actors to react to CGI characters and CGI surroundings but CGI is what made the prequels visually epic(space battle above Corusant for instance) and good. I would much rather have stale acting(I personally didnt think it was all that bad) than crappy props and special effects. If the prequel trilogy was never made alot of people, myself included, would have never gotten into Star Wars. I just hope they make more movies.
So you rather have eye-candy than substance. The Original Trilogy had the better acting, the better story, and the better dialogue and writing than anything the Prequels' had.

[Captain Trips]

Too many members are assuming posters like Cephus and myself have an axe to grind because Luca$ wipes his rear with $50 bills. That is not the case. Yes, the man is successful. And who doesn't want to be? Who wouldn't want to do comics, movies, music, porn, or any combination of those, and be paid for it? The reality is we PAY (well, most of us do) for these indulgences, and when we pay for something, the right to criticize, to evaluate, comes with the receipt or ticket stub. I have absolutely no problem paying for a quality product, which is why I have many shelves and boxes loaded with CDs, DVDs, comics, magazines, and books.

I responded to the comment that Lucas "whored out" Star Wars. To me, that sounded liked someone who has a severe distaste for the merchandising of the property. But, like I said, if I somehow misinterpreted that, than I apologize.

[SnowTrooper]

So you rather have eye-candy than substance. The Original Trilogy had the better acting, the better story, and the better dialogue and writing than anything the Prequels' had.
I honestly dont see better story or dialogue in the original trilogy. The only good dialogue from the original trilogy came from Han Solo and Darth Vader(mainly because of James Earl Jones though), Yoda's dialogue wasnt half as good as in the prequels(Yoda didnt seem like a wise Jedi Master like in the prequels but seemed more like comic relief). The dialogue in the original trilogy was kinda corny and overdone, sometimes less is more. As for better story why would you think that a young Jedi prodigy sworn to protect and serve turns evil and allies himself with an evil genius to take over the galaxy isnt as good as the prodigys son growing up to stop him. Im sure ill get alot of backlash for this but in my opinion the prequel trilogy had better plot, depth, character development, action, and obviously eye candy(which I love more than regular candy).

[Captain Trips]

The only thing that I consider canon is the movies. I've actually thought that it would be a good idea to "ultimatize" the entire comic line now that all 6 movies are done and restart the expanded stories. That way there wouldn't be so many contradictions and gaps in continuity.

But as far as Revenge of the Sith goes (to stay on topic), I loved it. On par with the Empire as the best movies of the saga. It exceeded all my expectations.

[Captain Trips]

I honestly dont see better story or dialogue in the original trilogy. The only good dialogue from the original trilogy came from Han Solo and Darth Vader(mainly because of James Earl Jones though), Yoda's dialogue wasnt half as good as in the prequels(Yoda didnt seem like a wise Jedi Master like in the prequels but seemed more like comic relief). The dialogue in the original trilogy was kinda corny and overdone, sometimes less is more. As for better story why would you think that a young Jedi prodigy sworn to protect and serve turns evil and allies himself with an evil genius to take over the galaxy isnt as good as the prodigys son growing up to stop him. Im sure ill get alot of backlash for this but in my opinion the prequel trilogy had better plot, depth, character development, action, and obviously eye candy(which I love more than regular candy).

The thing is that not only were the trilogies created a generation apart, they actually take place a generation apart as well. There is about 20 years between Episodes III and IV. I think they should have their differences.

What I like the most regarding the prequels is how Palpatine plays everyone against each other behind the scenes, and uses existing corruption to take his power as opposed to using force. We see the Jedi as flawed characters whose abilities are declining and not as perfect beings. And we see how a good character can become bad all in the name of doing what he thinks is right and how his actions cost him everything he holds dear.

I think there is some very, very good stuff in the prequels. It works as its own trilogy, and it works as part of the whole saga. I find that when I want to watch these movies, I have to watch them in order from I to VI.

[BoosterBronze]

The way he wielded the DBL did kind of show that, if not for the plot requirement, he would have cut himself in half, or had Qui-gon do it for him. Read CBF's analysis of the DBL and Darth Maul's fighting style, he proved that Maul was a poor fighter and had a bad weapon. (accents mine)

So, if I understand correctly, what the actual movie shows Darth Maul accomplish and be capable of (namely kicking Jedi ass and wiedling a doule light sabre) is superceded by what someone (I have no idea what CBF is) later wrote about it?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I honestly dont see better story or dialogue in the original trilogy. The only good dialogue from the original trilogy came from Han Solo and Darth Vader(mainly because of James Earl Jones though), Yoda's dialogue wasnt half as good as in the prequels(Yoda didnt seem like a wise Jedi Master like in the prequels but seemed more like comic relief). The dialogue in the original trilogy was kinda corny and overdone, sometimes less is more. As for better story why would you think that a young Jedi prodigy sworn to protect and serve turns evil and allies himself with an evil genius to take over the galaxy isnt as good as the prodigys son growing up to stop him. Im sure ill get alot of backlash for this but in my opinion the prequel trilogy had better plot, depth, character development, action, and obviously eye candy(which I love more than regular candy).
Might I ask how old you are, SnowTrooper? It's like you're saying Star Trek: Nemesis was better than Star Trek: Wrath of Kahn because the things were prettier.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

So, if I understand correctly, what the actual movie shows Darth Maul accomplish and be capable of (namely kicking Jedi ass and wiedling a doule light sabre) is superceded by what someone (I have no idea what CBF is) later wrote about it?
ChaosBurnFlame, a former member here, analyzed Maul's combat style, as well as his weapon, and proved that Maul was severely lacking and the weapon he used sucked. CBF knew how weapons worked, and Maul chose a bad one.

And really, Maul was only winning because plot required it. How much do you know of combat, BB? Have you gone at all into the Rumbles Forum/

[Black Atom]

I honestly dont see better story or dialogue in the original trilogy. The only good dialogue from the original trilogy came from Han Solo and Darth Vader(mainly because of James Earl Jones though), Yoda's dialogue wasnt half as good as in the prequels(Yoda didnt seem like a wise Jedi Master like in the prequels but seemed more like comic relief). The dialogue in the original trilogy was kinda corny and overdone, sometimes less is more. As for better story why would you think that a young Jedi prodigy sworn to protect and serve turns evil and allies himself with an evil genius to take over the galaxy isnt as good as the prodigys son growing up to stop him. Im sure ill get alot of backlash for this but in my opinion the prequel trilogy had better plot, depth, character development, action, and obviously eye candy(which I love more than regular candy).

Sorry. I normally don't begrudge anyone their opinions but...you honestly think Yoda has better dialog in the Prequels?

Gems such as:
"Around the survivors, a perimeter create!"
"Master Kenobi, our spies contact, you must, and then wait."
"A prophecy . . . that misread could have been."
"I hope right you are."
"For the Clones to discover the recalibration, a long time it will take."

He sounds fudgin' retarded! Can you really not see the difference between those shotty lines and lines like "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." or "Try not; Do. Or do not. There is no try" ?

[Black Atom]

ChaosBurnFlame, a former member here, analyzed Maul's combat style, as well as his weapon, and proved that Maul was severely lacking and the weapon he used sucked. CBF knew how weapons worked, and Maul chose a bad one.

And really, Maul was only winning because plot required it. How much do you know of combat, BB? Have you gone at all into the Rumbles Forum/

You do realize that CBF's motivation for this "analysis" was basically his hatred of Darth Maul, right? And that, furthermore, he blatantly exaggerated things such as Maul "touching the blade 6 times" to make his point seem more valid? I would take them as nothing more than the ravings of a madman. Hopefully he's found more positive things to do with his time.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

You do realize that CBF's motivation for this "analysis" was basically his hatred of Darth Maul, right? And that, furthermore, he blatantly exaggerated things such as Maul "touching the blade 6 times" to make his point seem more valid? I would take them as nothing more than the ravings of a madman. Hopefully he's found more positive things to do with his time.
Guess what, the moderators agreed with him, making the stuff he said was true. Guess that you don't like to follow the mods, since you tried to contest their decision.

[kmeyers]

ChaosBurnFlame, a former member here, analyzed Maul's combat style, as well as his weapon, and proved that Maul was severely lacking and the weapon he used sucked. CBF knew how weapons worked, and Maul chose a bad one.
That's funny, because the movie proved that he was quite proficient in using his weapon.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

That's funny, because the movie proved that he was quite proficient in using his weapon.
Other than the times he grabbed the blades themselves? Other than the times he didn't switch to one blade to fight an singular opponent? Other than the times he left his guards down?

Again, how much do you people know of sword combat?

[kmeyers]

Guess what, the moderators agreed with him, making the stuff he said was true. Guess that you don't like to follow the mods, since you tried to contest their decision.
Oh, the mods on a message board agreed with a theory on the internet, lets make it into law!

This ain't the Rumbles board.

[Silliw 2]

You guys, I'm telling you, just ignore him.

-edit- we all know what he's saying is rubbish, but if he doesn't know it, telling him about it is pointless.

[kmeyers]

Other than the times he grabbed the blades themselves? Other than the times he didn't switch to one blade to fight an singular opponent? Other than the times he left his guards down?

Again, how much do you people know of sword combat?
It's a movie.

[Black Atom]

Guess what, the moderators agreed with him, making the stuff he said was true. Guess that you don't like to follow the mods, since you tried to contest their decision.

They seem like alright guys. I simply don't agree with the decision, but I didn't contest it. I just found it...surprising. But it's really something that's only siginificant on the Rumbles Board.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

It's a movie.
Which uses combat. Tell me, how much do you know of the Double-bladed lightsaber's defense, reach, and striking power? Have you even practiced with a bo-staff, which the DBL can't be used like. Tell me, have you even used a bokken, or real bladed in practice? I've watched the duel of fates many times, everytime it shows that Maul was only being carried by the plot. His guard was weak. He left himself open to attack many times.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

You guys, I'm telling you, just ignore him.

-edit- we all know what he's saying is rubbish, but if he doesn't know it, telling him about it is pointless.
How is it rubbish? Tell me. Because you haven't proven anything.

[BoosterBronze]

ChaosBurnFlame, a former member here, analyzed Maul's combat style, as well as his weapon, and proved that Maul was severely lacking and the weapon he used sucked. CBF knew how weapons worked, and Maul chose a bad one.

And really, Maul was only winning because plot required it. How much do you know of combat, BB? Have you gone at all into the Rumbles Forum/

ChaosBurningFlam might be the worlds greatest living master of ninjitsu for all I know, but one thing he isn't is a Double Lightsabre Wielding Sith Lord. Neither am I, and neither to the best of my knowledge are you. So if a movie about a DBL wielding Sith Lord shows him doing something, its fair to say he can do it. And I know enough about force-sensitive lightsabre wielding during the waning days of the Glactic republic to know I'm not going to step to Darth Maul cuz I just saw him kill a Jedi Master.

The only reason Obi Wan beat Anakin was becasue the plot required it. The only reason Luke iced the Death Star was because the plot required it. The only reason Godzilla can breath fire is because the plot required it. The only reason Rhett left Scarlett is because the plot required it. Rocky beat Clubber Lang because the plot required it and Charlie found the Golden Ticket because the plot required it.

[kmeyers]

Which uses combat. Tell me, how much do you know of the Double-bladed lightsaber's defense, reach, and striking power? Have you even practiced with a bo-staff, which the DBL can't be used like. Tell me, have you even used a bokken, or real bladed in practice?
What do I know about the statistics of a fictional weapon? The same as you, nothing.

I'm sure you're aware that most, if not all sword fights in movies don't follow real life sword combat. It's just not as visually interesting. The fights in movies are choreographed to look much better than they would in real life.

[BoosterBronze]

Which uses combat. Tell me, how much do you know of the Double-bladed lightsaber's defense, reach, and striking power? Have you even practiced with a bo-staff, which the DBL can't be used like. Tell me, have you even used a bokken, or real bladed in practice? I've watched the duel of fates many times, everytime it shows that Maul was only being carried by the plot. His guard was weak. He left himself open to attack many times.

He had the Force. He was experiencing the battle on levels you couldn't imagine.

EDIT: And since we're using KOTOR as an example, ever notice how like, after every move those guys stop and THINK about what they're doing next... like they're waiting for instructions from some invisible omnipotent puippet master? Darth maul never did that.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

ChaosBurningFlam might be the worlds greatest living master of ninjitsu for all I know, but one thing he isn't is a Double Lightsabre Wielding Sith Lord. Neither am I, and neither to the best of my knowledge are you. So if a movie about a DBL wielding Sith Lord shows him doing something, its fair to say he can do it. And I know enough about force-sensitive lightsabre wielding during the waning days of the Glactic republic to know I'm not going to step to Darth Maul cuz I just saw him kill a Jedi Master.
Darth Maul killed a Jedi Master that didn't do anything to prove he was an Jedi Master. A single-blade lightsaber wielding is superior to the double blade, since striking power, defense, reach, and all other things necessary for blade combat are addressed. The Double-Blade Lightsaber requires you to have a weak defense, an short reach, and many blindspots.
The only reason Obi Wan beat Anakin was becasue the plot required it. The only reason Luke iced the Death Star was because the plot required it. The only reason Godzilla can breath fire is because the plot required it. The only reason Rhett left Scarlett is because the plot required it. Rocky beat Clubber Lang because the plot required it and Charlie found the Golden Ticket because the plot required it.
You don't seem to get what Plot Induced Stupidity is.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

He had the Force. He was experiencing the battle on levels you couldn't imagine.
The Force doesn't make one a god of combat. Non-Force Users can fight with much better Jedi and Sith in close combat, after all. And, he wasn't. He was basically going berserk, leaving himself open. Really, if they were allowed to, Qui-gon or Obi-wan coudl have distracted him, and his back blindspot would have been hit.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

EDIT: And since we're using KOTOR as an example, ever notice how like, after every move those guys stop and THINK about what they're doing next... like they're waiting for instructions from some invisible omnipotent puippet master? Darth maul never did that.
Did you miss that I don't use Game Mechanics, BB? I use text and cutscenes from KOTOR to prove that they are better?

[Silliw 2]

Which uses combat. Tell me, how much do you know of the Double-bladed lightsaber's defense, reach, and striking power? Have you even practiced with a bo-staff, which the DBL can't be used like. Tell me, have you even used a bokken, or real bladed in practice?

That's it, I'm out of here. Thanks for ruining the thread.

Real life comboat is irrelevant in the Star Wars universe, how in the holy freaking hell can you not realize that? It is not that hard of a concept to grasp, even a child can.

Fire exists in space.
Sound exists in space.
Lightsabers can deflect lasers.
Lightsabers can deflect other lightsabers.

By your ridiculous logic, since the laws of physics are broken, then all of instances of these events are hereby thrown out despite the fact that they can be viewed in the movies.

Seriously, kid, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

Story > real world

That is why we watch it. Not to analyze the damn fighting techniques (unless your the Star Wars kid, and by the way you post, you may be :eek: )

Please, keep all of you PIS and CBF's moronic anti-Maul evaluation on the Rumble's Thread where it belongs.

[kmeyers]

The Force doesn't make one a god of combat. Non-Force Users can fight with much better Jedi and Sith in close combat, after all. And, he wasn't. He was basically going berserk, leaving himself open. Really, if they were allowed to, Qui-gon or Obi-wan coudl have distracted him, and his back blindspot would have been hit.
But...they didn't.

And, wasn't that his style of fighting? Channeling his rage into the force and his berserk fighting style.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

What do I know about the statistics of a fictional weapon? The same as you, nothing.
It's a fictional weapon based on a real life design. Double-bladed swords exist and can be used to the full extent of a staff without sacrificing a person's attack, defense, creating blindspots, and reach. The Double-bladed lightsaber does do all that. You basically hinder yourself with a weapon like that.
I'm sure you're aware that most, if not all sword fights in movies don't follow real life sword combat. It's just not as visually interesting. The fights in movies are choreographed to look much better than they would in real life.
The whole choreography defense....

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

But...they didn't.
Now you're getting what PIS is.
And, wasn't that his style of fighting? Channeling his rage into the force and his berserk fighting style.
And channeling his rage and fighting berserk leaves himself open for intelligent fighters.

[kmeyers]

It's a fictional weapon based on a real life design. Double-bladed swords exist and can be used to the full extent of a staff without sacrificing a person's attack, defense, creating blindspots, and reach. The Double-bladed lightsaber does do all that. You basically hinder yourself with a weapon like that.

The whole choreography defense....
Considering we're talking about a movie, and not real life, I'd say it's more than appropriate.

[Silliw 2]

Just once more so your post flooding doesn't cause you too miss it.

Real life comboat is irrelevant in the Star Wars universe, how in the holy freaking hell can you not realize that? It is not that hard of a concept to grasp, even a child can.

Fire exists in space.
Sound exists in space.
Lightsabers can deflect lasers.
Lightsabers can deflect other lightsabers.

By your ridiculous logic, since the laws of physics are broken, then all of instances of these events are hereby thrown out despite the fact that they can be viewed in the movies.

Seriously, kid, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

Story > real world

That is why we watch it. Not to analyze the damn fighting techniques (unless your the Star Wars kid, and by the way you post, you may be )

Please, keep all of you PIS and CBF's moronic anti-Maul evaluation on the Rumble's Thread where it belongs.

[kmeyers]

Now you're getting what PIS is.
Oh, I know what it is, almost anything could be written off as PIS, though.

And channeling his rage and fighting berserk leaves himself open for intelligent fighters.
Obviously not. Maybe the force fills those holes in his defense.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Obviously not. Maybe the force fills those holes in his defense.
If he had two lightsabers or a single blade, yeah, he'd be able to block where his defense was gone, or where his blindspots were. But with an DBL, it isn't humanoidly possible to block an attack where, while you focus on an opponent in the front and one comes in the back to stab you.

[kmeyers]

If he had two lightsabers or a single blade, yeah, he'd be able to block where his defense was gone, or where his blindspots were. But with an DBL, it isn't humanoidly possible to block an attack where, while you focus on an opponent in the front and one comes in the back to stab you.
He seemed to be just fine doing it, since noone stabbed him in the back. That force is pretty nifty, huh?

[BoosterBronze]

The Force doesn't make one a god of combat. Non-Force Users can fight with much better Jedi and Sith in close combat, after all.
They can? I can't, and don't recall anyone in the Star Wars films capable of such a feat. Can CBF do it?

{Maul} was basically going berserk, leaving himself open. Really, if they were allowed to, Qui-gon or Obi-wan coudl have distracted him, and his back blindspot would have been hit.

So was Darth Maul's PIS in leaving himself open negated by Obi Wan's PIS in not taking advantage of forementioned openings, or did Maul notice ObiWan's PIS bad offense, and therefore not even bother to put up a solid defense?

[Black Atom]

If he had two lightsabers or a single blade, yeah, he'd be able to block where his defense was gone, or where his blindspots were. But with an DBL, it isn't humanoidly possible to block an attack where, while you focus on an opponent in the front and one comes in the back to stab you.

Believe me, I am loathe to even re-enter this discussion, but is it possible...just slightly...that Maul was just so much faster or better skilled than his opponents that it made up for what you perceive as gaps in his defense? Check out the Kung Fu movie Crippled Masters, where one guy goes around owning people even though he doesn't have any hands. It's because he's that good.

By the by, have you even analyzed the fight yourself, or are you just spouting CBFs propaganda?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

He seemed to be just fine doing it, since noone stabbed him in the back. That force is pretty nifty, huh?
He didn't use the Force at all while he was engaged in combat. And when he focused on Qui-Gon with both blades up, if Jinn was really that great of a swordsman...Maul should have been forced to go to a single blade just to keep up with the speed an single blade can attack with.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Believe me, I am loathe to even re-enter this discussion, but is it possible...just slightly...that Maul was just so much faster or better skilled than his opponents that it made up for what you perceive as gaps in his defense? Check out the Kung Fu movie Crippled Masters, where one guy goes around owning people even though he doesn't have any hands. It's because he's that good.

By the by, have you even analyzed the fight yourself, or are you just spouting CBFs propaganda?
I have watched the fight myself. And Maul didn't do anything that made himself stronger, faster, or more skilled than Obi-wan and Qui-gon. He doesn't have any speed feats or Force feats to speak of either, while both Qui-gon and Obi-wan do.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

They can? I can't, and don't recall anyone in the Star Wars films capable of such a feat. Can CBF do it?
I'm talking about the Mandalorians. The Clone Troopers. The Echani. Hell, even the Battle Droids. They can kill Jedi, close or ranged combat, in droves. The Force doesn't make one a combat god.


So was Darth Maul's PIS in leaving himself open negated by Obi Wan's PIS in not taking advantage of forementioned openings, or did Maul notice ObiWan's PIS bad offense, and therefore not even bother to put up a solid defense?
The whole scene was full of PIS its hard to take seriously.

[Black Atom]

I have watched the fight myself. And Maul didn't do anything that made himself stronger, faster, or more skilled than Obi-wan and Qui-gon. He doesn't have any speed feats or Force feats to speak of either, while both Qui-gon and Obi-wan do.

You mean, aside form beating the shit out of them 2-on-1?

[kmeyers]

He didn't use the Force at all while he was engaged in combat. Why would you think that? I'm pretty sure all force users need the force to wield their weapon and not cut themselves to pieces...it's why force users are the only ones who really use lightsabers at all.

And when he focused on Qui-Gon with both blades up, if Jinn was really that great of a swordsman...Maul should have been forced to go to a single blade just to keep up with the speed an single blade can attack with.
But he didn't need to.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Why would you think that? I'm pretty sure all force users need the force to wield their weapon and not cut themselves to pieces...it's why force users are the only ones who really use lightsabers at all.
Anja Gallandro can use a lightsaber as good as any Jedi, and she ain't Force Sensitive.

But he didn't need to.
Because Qui-Gon didn't press his advantage, he didn't need to you mean.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

You mean, aside form beating the shit out of them 2-on-1?
Because they weren't fighting to their full extent, or even acting remotely smart, combatwise, he was beating them. Other than that, he shouldn't have been winning.

[kmeyers]

Anja Gallandro can use a lightsaber as good as any Jedi, and she ain't Force Sensitive.
She ain't canon either.

Because Qui-Gon didn't press his advantage, he didn't need to you mean.
I have no idea what this means.

[Black Atom]

Because they weren't fighting to their full extent, or even acting remotely smart, combatwise, he was beating them. Other than that, he shouldn't have been winning.

Based on what? We hadn't seen Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon fight anything but idiot battledroids prior to that. Without tiny thought balloons telling us what they were thinking, how do you presume to know that they weren't fighting at "full extent"?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

She ain't canon either.
Incorrect. She's C-Canon. Unless the EU contradicts the movie, it's canon. So, she is canon. Or how about General Grevious? He was non-Force Sensitive.

I have no idea what this means.
You said that Maul didn't need to revert to a single blade was correct, since Qui-Gon didn't press his weapon's speed advantage or attack the blindspots.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Based on what? We hadn't seen Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon fight anything but idiot battledroids prior to that. Without tiny thought balloons telling us what they were thinking, how do you presume to know that they weren't fighting at "full extent"?
Since you know, they weren't attacking the blindspots. Using the Force to toss Maul around like a ragdoll. You know, things like what Anakin and Obi-wan did on Mustafar, or Luke and Vader did on the Death Star II? Those duels showed what an battle between Force Users really should be like.

[Black Atom]

I'm glad you mentioned Greivous. He should be obliterated with anyone with even a Padawan's level of force ability. Any fight with a Jedi in which he doesn't get Force TKd to poop right out of the gate is far less believeable than Darth Mauls fight.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I'm glad you mentioned Greivous. He should be obliterated with anyone with even a Padawan's level of force ability. Any fight with a Jedi in which he doesn't get Force TKd to poop right out of the gate is far less believeable than Darth Mauls fight.
Didn't you watch his fight with the six Jedi Knights and Two Masters in Clone Wars? he proved to be a better combatant than Maul ever was.

[kmeyers]

Incorrect. She's C-Canon. Unless the EU contradicts the movie, it's canon. So, she is canon. Or how about General Grevious? He was non-Force Sensitive.
I suppose there are exceptions, but I know i've read and seen instances of a Jedi(Luke specifically) getting ready, "letting the force flow through him," before powering on his lightsaber.
Also Jedi are constantly using the force to deflect blaster fire(or other attacks).
You said that Maul didn't need to revert to a single blade was correct, since Qui-Gon didn't press his weapon's speed advantage or attack the blindspots.
So, no PIS, then.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I suppose there are exceptions, but I know i've read and seen instances of a Jedi(Luke specifically) getting ready, "letting the force flow through him," before powering on his lightsaber.
Also Jedi are constantly using the force to deflect blaster fire(or other attacks).
Since blaster bolts move so slowly...I suppose even a baseball player, armed with a lightsaber can deflect them.:D
So, no PIS, then.
Actually, it is PIS since Qui-gon didn't show he really was a good swordsman. Attacking the blindspots, keeping Maul on his toes, making him switch to a single blade, using his speed, things like that make it PIS.

[Cephus]

The merchandizing deal that Lucas made with toys and the like was one of the first of its kind. What you call "whoring out" was an investment that Lucas made during the very first Star Wars movie back in 1977. Once again, I find it really inane to express such venom towards the fact that someone had the forsesight to find ways to make money on a property that he owns and finances. Lucasfilm approves every piece of Star Wars material produces, from video games to comic books to novels.

We're not talking about 1977, we're talking about 2005. When Lucas did it in 1977, everyone thought he was crazy when he took merchandizing rights over more money but he ended up laughing all the way to the bank. But there is a limit when it comes to merchandizing and sticking a picture of Darth Vader on every piece of merchandise that comes off the assembly line is WAY over the line. There is reasonable marketing and there is going hog-shit-wild. Lucas has, since he started producing the new prequels, gone hog-shit-wild.

So what if Star Wars made him rich? Why does that bother people so much?

It's not that he's rich that bothers people, it's that he's milking the franchise for everything he can get. It's obvious that the only thing he cares about today is making a buck, telling a good story is purely secondary. All he wants to do is stick more ships onscreen that he can make toys out of and new characters he can crank out as action figures. And playing cards. And toothbrushes. And toilet paper. It just goes on and on and on.

[BoosterBronze]

The whole scene was full of PIS its hard to take seriously.

So, given that both sets of combatants fall under what you describe as "PIS" then that leaves us with one of two options.

1) We ascribe the the theory that the PIS was only really from one of them; either the Jedi's were forced "by the plot" to not be as effective as they should have been, or Maul was forced "by the plot" not to fight to his advantage. To utitlize this theory, we need to take into account various C-Canon sources, analysis by 'experts' such as FlamingChaosBurn in his use of similar, non-laser based melee weaponry and non-Force using styles, and a comparison of widely differnet media from PC cutscenes, to novels, to comics compared to the film. We also need to analyze the very concept of 'canon' given that any other media that by comparison with Ep. 1 makes Darth Maul seem ineffective is in a way contradicting the films claim that Maul was capable of battling two jedi at once, and killing a master. That's a lot of work.

OR

2) We Occam's Razor the whole thing, and take the whole fight at face value: Apparently, based on available evidence (namely the fight, which I assure you everyone on this board has seen), Darth Maul is capable of holding off two Jedis, and even killing one once he's isolated him, and if it wasn't for the Sith flaw of overconfidence, might very well have slain the young Padawan.

[cactusmaac]

Was it any different in the period between STAR WARS and EMPIRE?

[Black Atom]

Didn't you watch his fight with the six Jedi Knights and Two Masters in Clone Wars? he proved to be a better combatant than Maul ever was.

A) No.
B) Was there an explanation as to why he wasn't TK'd to smithereens like an other droid?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

A) No.
B) Was there an explanation as to why he wasn't TK'd to smithereens like an other droid?
1. You missed a great scene then. He pwned them all.
2. He shrugged off TK. When he attacked Palpatine's office, Shaak Ti and the two other Jedi hit him with TK, and he either walked through it, or ignored it. They only slowed him down.

[BoosterBronze]

A) No.
B) Was there an explanation as to why he wasn't TK'd to smithereens like an other droid?

The Clone War's actions scenes can't be comparable to the movies.
Doesn't Mace Windu jump 1,000 feet into the air and bring down a giant battle cruiser all by himself?
I really enjoyed those cartoons, but it's apples and oranges comparing it to the movies.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

The Clone War's actions scenes can't be comparable to the movies.
Some scenes, maybe, but this fight was actually kept near the limits of the movies.
Doesn't Mace Windu jump 1,000 feet into the air and bring down a giant battle cruiser all by himself?
Actually, it was a seismic tank. And the way he took it down was infiltrating it.

[Cephus]

Might I ask how old you are, SnowTrooper? It's like you're saying Star Trek: Nemesis was better than Star Trek: Wrath of Kahn because the things were prettier.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Modern audiences only care about CGI eye candy, screw the story, screw good characters, all they care about is the "OOH! AAH!" nonsense. Movie makers today don't even try to make interesting, intellectual films, they just throw a lot of money in the CG budget and they know the mindless special effects junkies will show up.

[Black Atom]

1. You missed a great scene then. He pwned them all.
2. He shrugged off TK. When he attacked Palpatine's office, Shaak Ti and the two other Jedi hit him with TK, and he either walked through it, or ignored it. They only slowed him down.

In the movie, which I consider to be the more concrete source, Grevious got TK'd like 30 feet away with ease. Only PIS/CIS kept him from being tossed right off that cliff. Unless he's got ysalamiri for balls, I see no reason why he'd be able to "shrug off" TK.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

In the movie, which I consider to be the more concrete source, Grevious got TK'd like 30 feet away with ease. Only PIS/CIS kept him from being tossed right off that cliff. Unless he's got ysalamiri for balls, I see no reason why he'd be able to "shrug off" TK.
Well, Grevious wasn't 100 percent when he Fought Obi-wan. His chest and organs were still damaged by Mace's Force Grab.

[Black Atom]

Well, Grevious wasn't 100 percent when he Fought Obi-wan. His chest and organs were still damaged by Mace's Force Grab.

Were his chest organs ysalamiri?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Were his chest organs ysalamiri?
No, but they were damaged, and his circuitry were damaged. Remember when Obi-wan literally pulled those apart with physical strenght? That is because Mace weakened the armor.

The way he walked through most TK that didn't try to trip him up was he pulled his arms in and latched the ground with his claws.

[Black Atom]

No, but they were damaged, and his circuitry were damaged. Remember when Obi-wan literally pulled those apart with physical strenght? That is because Mace weakened the armor.

With TK, if I'm not mistaken, which Greivous is obviously susceptible to, reinforcing my initial statement. The fact that Obi-Wan didn't simply use him to attack his own men or, even funnier, making him cut himself up with his own sabers, is PIS/CIS.