So, where are the rest of the Marvel "Big Space Beings?"

[Expletive Deleted]

All right, so we've got Annihilus barging into the Marvel Universe from the Negative Zone, smashing planets and killing lots and lots of aliens.

We know Galactus is going to get in the middle of things. Even if you take Tenebrous and Aegis out of the equation, someone who's blowing up planets is unwelcome competition.

But what about his ersatz family? Eternity, Infinity, Death, and Oblivion? Would they care what's going on? How about the relatives further down the family tree, like Chaos, Order, Kronos, and the rest?

We know they're not going to actually be involved in the action, since this event is all about the mortal (or mostly mortal) characters, but what do you think the higher level cosmics think of these goings-on in their sandbox?

[widdershins]

They should never be involved in this type of story at all.
They should only be involved in stories which have a mystical or metaphysical theme.
You do not see the Endless when there's a cosmic war at Dc,yet in a war destruction,death,desire and despair are obviously present.
One of the reasons that turned me off from reading marvel cosmics is that cosmics is synonimous with Abstracts (rather than good sci-fi) and that the Abstracts themselves are all-too concrete for my liking.
But then,the only Annihilation titles I'm picking are Super Skrull and Ronan.

On another level,the abstracts should be a reflection of the Universe.If the Universe is in ruins,well the Universe is in ruins.It will mean that in the new status quo,Chaos is stronger,Death is stronger,Oblivion is stronger,because that's how the "Universe" feels at the moment.Not that some cosmic balance has been upset and must be restored.Annhilus' attack is the equivalent of the arrival of a new species in an ecosystem.
The previous equilibrium will be shattered,but a new one will emerge naturally.
Even if some,or many,species undergo a catastrophic extinction in the process.

[Tommy]

Personally I think the Abstracts decided to take a LOOOOOOONG vacation after all that Infinity business kept beating them.

And Death should be as happy as a clam about all this. After all this was her goal for a very long time.

[moon knight]

I don't think they need to play a part in Annihilation as it stands now, but if Annilus succededs in collecting the cosmic powers of the Heralds they may need to step in if Annilus starts to threaten them. I don't see this happening though.

[BeastieRunner]

I would rather see the Celestials get invovled.

As for ED's question, I think some of them might be pissed while others just see what Annihilus is doing and ignore it. They would most likely bicker and fight about it, taking parts of the universe with them.

[Arilou]

Well, at least two Abstracts (Death and Galactus, although I'm unsure if Galactus counts) have already gotten involved. (Although Death only indirectly)

EDIT: I believe Andy said something like they had intended to make a one-shot that explained why the Abstracts weren't involved, but because it would be a story about people doing nothing it wasn't a good idea to publish it :p

[daniel2099]

maybe they know how this will turn out

[Zero Hunter]

Since it doesn't really threaten them they just ignore it. The only reason they got involved in the Infinty stuff was becuase Thanos had the power to directly affect them. As long as it is not something that is going to effect the entire universe then what the little mortal being do is no concern of theirs.

[Silver Nimbus]

All right, so we've got Annihilus barging into the Marvel Universe from the Negative Zone, smashing planets and killing lots and lots of aliens.

We know Galactus is going to get in the middle of things. Even if you take Tenebrous and Aegis out of the equation, someone who's blowing up planets is unwelcome competition.

But what about his ersatz family? Eternity, Infinity, Death, and Oblivion? Would they care what's going on? How about the relatives further down the family tree, like Chaos, Order, Kronos, and the rest?

We know they're not going to actually be involved in the action, since this event is all about the mortal (or mostly mortal) characters, but what do you think the higher level cosmics think of these goings-on in their sandbox?



Having just managed to get copies of A:Silver Surfer 2&3, the Abstracts are absolutely, 100% involved and interested in these goings on. My reasoning:

Currently, Galactus is the only active representative of the Cosmological Consonance, the place where the aspects of Eternity/Infinity and Death/Oblivion meet. He exhibits all the traits of the Consonane - he creates (Heralds) and destroys (Worlds) life. He creates (Taa II) and destroys (Ultimate Nullifier) things. As he himself states in A:SS, he remains the only pure representative of the Consonance. Aegis and Tenebrous on the other hand, while surviving the war between the elements of the Consonance, are warped. How? We can't be sure yet, but likely unlike Galactus they emphasize certain elements over others. And from their descriptions, it's highly unlikely it's Eternity/Infinity that they favor.

It absolutely behooves those aspects they favor to intervene on their behalf, just as it is direly important to the aspects they neglect to see them stopped.

Further, in A:SS, Annihilus in his screeching over the expansion of the universe into his precious Negative Zone, outright declares war on the Cosmological Constant, that component of physics that purports to explain why the matter of the universe continues to expand in the face of gravity trying to pull it all back together. His intent to check the growth of this universe flies directly in the face of Infinity, and the death he causes plays into the hands of Death.

Annihilus, unaware of Aegis and Tenebrous being other aspects of the Consonance that he can influence, has set his sights on the Power Cosmic, the power of Galactus at the center of the confluence, probably figuring he can use Galactus' power to tip the Consonance in his favor. Furthermore, he's co-opted the tools of the former champion of Infinity, Quasar, to do so.

I cannot possibly see the champions of Life/Eternity/Infinity not being called into play before the end. Even Galactus himself, in order to preserve the balance and his own status quo might side in their favor before the story concludes unless we're going to see a new, grimmer, cosmic balance.

[Tien Long]

Been enjoying Annihilation immensely, and I started to pick up the main series just yesterday. However, through the destruction of all of Marvel space, I was just wondering where the rest of the Marvel "space gods" are. Sure, Galactus and Thanos have made their appearances, but what about beings like the Celestials, The Elders of the Universe, Eon, Eternity, etc.? If it concerns guys like Galactus and Thanos, wouldn't they also be concerned with this encroachment and invasion upon the MU? If they've made their appearances already, I apologize in advance. Still, any thoughts on the question?

[Mjolnir]

Been enjoying Annihilation immensely, and I started to pick up the main series just yesterday. However, through the destruction of all of Marvel space, I was just wondering where the rest of the Marvel "space gods" are. Sure, Galactus and Thanos have made their appearances, but what about beings like the Celestials, The Elders of the Universe, Eon, Eternity, etc.? If it concerns guys like Galactus and Thanos, wouldn't they also be concerned with this encroachment and invasion upon the MU? If they've made their appearances already, I apologize in advance. Still, any thoughts on the question?

They're waiting for the Civil War delays like the rest of us

[Mjolnir]

joking, i hope i didnt sound like a jerk.

i'm guessing The Celestials will make some form of appearance in Eternals, though.

I guess it's a question for good ol' Andy, but i'm sure it'll be a "wait and see" response. Then again, he often flat out denies character appearances, like Warlock for instance.

[Expletive Deleted]

Simply put, it's not their story.

You can make a case that some of the abstracts should be interested because of their relationships with the protagonists (namely Quasar), but you can also make the case that most of them're inscrutable, alien, and so immense as to be generally uninterested in piddly things like wars and empires.

As for the Elders . . . well, they just suck. The only one who might conceivably be interested in the Annihilation War for the sake of a good fight is currently stalking She-Hulk.

[Zero Hunter]

Plus the Grandmaster is currently busy in the Thunderbolts book too. I would imagine the rest are just out doing their thing and staying clear of the mess.

[Expletive Deleted]

Good point about Gamesmaster. But, yeah, they're all so single minded; it's hard to think most of them would be willing to actually get involved in any meaningful way.

For example, I can't imagine the Collector is really interested. He probably kidnapped a few drones for completeness' sake and went on his merry way.

[marshal99]

Good point about Gamesmaster. But, yeah, they're all so single minded; it's hard to think most of them would be willing to actually get involved in any meaningful way.


Grandmaster , Gamemaster is a powerful x-villain. ;)

Space is very big , plenty of other planets and worlds out there. The Stranger will probably come along in the last issue to capture Annihilus as a specimen for his labworld. ;)

[Expletive Deleted]

Grandmaster , Gamemaster is a powerful x-villain. ;)Meh, same difference.

[Sean Walsh]

I dunno.......

It'd make sense for them to be concerned about something like the Annihilation Wave.

But even still, it's just something brushing thru the universe. The universe itself isn't going to be completely destroyed.

So while this isn't a minor a speck as Civil War (not necessarily an anti-CW comment - it's only an uprising on 1 planet out of trillions) Annihilation isn't something that will tear all of creation asunder and put their very beings in peril.

One other thing to say about the "big cosmic beings": doesn't it make Quasar all the more important to the very fabric of the Marvel universe that he actually had contact with these folks in his title, or at least was someone those folks watched for any reason at all?
(Same can be said about Thanos and Adam Warlock and IIRC the Silver Surfer, but I'm pro-Wendell so :p )

[Kyle_Ion]

I think that out of the abstract entities that the one that would be the most concerned would be Eternity, why cause in the "Infinity War" Eternity said that the "Universe which is I" has been restored. I don't see or have a problem with the abstract entities getting involved with the annihilation mini, that is one of the reasons I read anything of marvel to see if the Entitys will be heard from etc. For marvel I prefer the Cosmic Hero's/Cosmic Villians than normal superheroes/Supervillians.

[XPac]

I think the abstracts had the same reaction that a lot of fans had when they discovered who the big bad of Annihilation was.

"Annihilus... eh."

Then the cosmics went about their business.

[drwho]

I just think this is beneath their notice. Kind of surprised a Watcher or two havent bothered appearing.

[XPac]

I just think this is beneath their notice. Kind of surprised a Watcher or two havent bothered appearing.

I guess Uatu is too busy with his frontrow seat for Civil War.

They really should have a Watching standing in the background somewhere at least for one panel. I know it's a bigger event from a comicbook company standpoint, but from a cosmic standpoint one would think Civil War was only of soso importance (though who knows how it will turn out).

Not having a Watching pop in almost downgrades the signficance of it.

[chrono727]

I think I saw the Inbetweener serving drinks at a Starbucks in the latest Civil War book...;)

[BooCoo]

I think the abstracts would get involved once they begin to feel 'symptoms' of the conflict. Think of the planets and other beings like individual cells making up your whole. No, you won't notice one cell. But if they collect, grow and change, or get cancerous they can destroy you or supplant you. When you get up in the morning, you aren't aware of or focus on every body process. But if you eat a bad fish, you damn well know it and react. :cool:

[XPac]

I think the abstracts would get involved once they begin to feel 'symptoms' of the conflict. Think of the planets and other beings like individual cells making up your whole. No, you won't notice one cell. But if they collect, grow and change, or get cancerous they can destroy you or supplant you. When you get up in the morning, you aren't aware of or focus on every body process. But if you eat a bad fish, you damn well know it and react. :cool:

Course, Galactus just got his @$$ kicked. Not that it's the first time that's happened (unfortuantely), but one would think that's a warning bell of some sort.

The protector of the Universe (not that anyone seems to acknowledge Quasar as that) and the Nova Corps are down too.

Maybe the have just gotten lazy and have assumed Adam Warlock will come in and save the day. Usually when Warlock is involved the abstracts are just kind of in his way anyways.

[The Deadpool]

Also remember that Eternity is no more. There is only Umar...

[Kyle_Ion]

Also remember that Eternity is no more. There is only Umar...



I'm sorry I must have missed something here but what happened to Eternity, did he disappear/get killed during one of the Annihilation series? Will Eternity come back after the Annihilation series, and who is this Umar that replaced him.

[Joe Acro]

I'm sorry I must have missed something here but what happened to Eternity, did he disappear/get killed during one of the Annihilation series? Will Eternity come back after the Annihilation series, and who is this Umar that replaced him.Umar, a elswhere-dimensional woman (most often fighting Dr. Strange), for all intents and purposes, became Eternity in the Defenders mini not too long ago. However, I believe she has recanted the role and Eternity is as he should be.

[XPac]

Umar, a elswhere-dimensional woman (most often fighting Dr. Strange), for all intents and purposes, became Eternity in the Defenders mini not too long ago. However, I believe she has recanted the role and Eternity is as he should be.

I don't recall... did they ever mention how the heck Dormammu and Umar were able to beat Eternity in the first place?

[Kyle_Ion]

why isn't Epoch intervening in this little conflict, you would think that since her protector Quasar is supposedly dead that Epoch would be sad and hurt, and would try to avenge his death. Then there's Infinity why doesn't she interfere, you would think that since her Avatar Quasar died that she would be angry and interfere and avenge his death as well.

[Arilou]

At least Eternity/Infinity is a bit above this I think. Eternity shouldn't really care about a new species taking over, happens all the time.

But yeah, the Watchers ought to be monitoring this, no?

[XPac]

At least Eternity/Infinity is a bit above this I think. Eternity shouldn't really care about a new species taking over, happens all the time.

But yeah, the Watchers ought to be monitoring this, no?

If Galactus is endangered, Eternity MIGHT care though. I guess it depends on whether the Big Gs life is being endangered here. Not sure what they have planned for him though.

[Alan2099]

Grandmaster , Gamemaster is a powerful x-villain. ;)

Am I the only one who thinks they should switch names?

[Kyle_Ion]

Eternity should care since Eternity is this universe's collective consciouness, and since Galactus is involved and have a hard time then he really should care. Then there is Infinity as I said I think she should really care since her avatar is supposedly dead.

[Expletive Deleted]

But Eternity's an asshole. As long as there are still living things running around somewhere, he doesn't mind the occasional galactic genocide (See also "Nega Bomb").

As for Infinity . . . Quasar was her avatar, but didn't she snub him at least once post-"Cosmos In Collision"? He went to her for help and she wouldn't even talk to him, or something like that? I don't remember the details, but I'd swear it happened.

[XPac]

But Eternity's an asshole. As long as there are still living things running around somewhere, he doesn't mind the occasional galactic genocide (See also "Nega Bomb").

As for Infinity . . . Quasar was her avatar, but didn't she snub him at least once post-"Cosmos In Collision"? He went to her for help and she wouldn't even talk to him, or something like that? I don't remember the details, but I'd swear it happened.

Yup... Infinity treated Quasar like a forgetable one night stand. She got what she wanted, then kicked the poor guy to the curb. So so wrong.

[Kyle_Ion]

Yup... Infinity treated Quasar like a forgetable one night stand. She got what she wanted, then kicked the poor guy to the curb. So so wrong.



Then I think that the next time the other abstract entities need help and they come to poor Wendell/Quasar, he should treat the entities the same way they treat him and lets see how they like it, with the exception of Epoch who actually seems to care about the protector and gives him the time of day to make his case to it.

[Arilou]

Well, the thing about ignoring the abstracts is that it's kind of self-destructive.... A threat to Eternity is *per definition* a threat to any other living being in the universe...

[BooCoo]

But Eternity's an asshole. As long as there are still living things running around somewhere, he doesn't mind the occasional galactic genocide (See also "Nega Bomb").

As for Infinity . . . Quasar was her avatar, but didn't she snub him at least once post-"Cosmos In Collision"? He went to her for help and she wouldn't even talk to him, or something like that? I don't remember the details, but I'd swear it happened.


That wasn't Infinity, that was a substitue "M body" from another time frame that didn't recognize him. For more info, see "FRACTALS" in the Quaze series. These fractals are small beings that have a symbiotic relationship with the abstracts, taking their places at times when the entities are busy somewhere else.

[BooCoo]

Then I think that the next time the other abstract entities need help and they come to poor Wendell/Quasar, he should treat the entities the same way they treat him and lets see how they like it, with the exception of Epoch who actually seems to care about the protector and gives him the time of day to make his case to it.


The only one Quasar never had any direct dialogue with was Eternity. The only time they met in the series he was unconscious and under the influence of the infinity war. Infinity speaks to him like a regular person. Oblivion goes the more traditional 'arrogant' route. Death didn't really say anything to him at all (she really needs a good writer).

[XPac]

Then I think that the next time the other abstract entities need help and they come to poor Wendell/Quasar, he should treat the entities the same way they treat him and lets see how they like it, with the exception of Epoch who actually seems to care about the protector and gives him the time of day to make his case to it.

I'm hoping Epock jumps into this now simply because Quasar was taken out. And Annihilus does have the Quantom Bands... I believe it's Epochs job to give those to someone else so he can assign another protector. She'll want those back.

[Kyle_Ion]

It would be nice if Epoch came and took the quantum bands and gave it to someone else.

[DMike]

Personally I think the Abstracts decided to take a LOOOOOOONG vacation after all that Infinity business kept beating them.

And Death should be as happy as a clam about all this. After all this was her goal for a very long time.

Except Death rather explicitly stated a couple months ago that despite popular belief, she's not interested in spreading death throughout the universe. After all, she is Death, eventually she'll have them all anyway without anyone's help.

[drwho]

Would you all want to see the cutesy looking version of epoch or a grown up version?

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/7/7a/Eon.jpg/442px-Eon.jpg


http://www.antaninet.it/marvel-universe/e/epoch.jpg

[Sam]

Remember, we did see at least one other space god show up so far -- Glorian, in the RONAN series. Granted, he's a pretty small fish by space god standards, but still. I sort of like the way they're playing it with the vast cosmic powers. They exist, and when the Annihilation Wave happens to smack into one of them they tend to get vaporized, edited out of reality, or what have you, but the great powers are still pretty much doing their own thing.

That said, I would hope that if the story is going to feature rogue Galacti, the other cosmic bigwigs would notice at some point.

[bd2999]

Umar, a elswhere-dimensional woman (most often fighting Dr. Strange), for all intents and purposes, became Eternity in the Defenders mini not too long ago. However, I believe she has recanted the role and Eternity is as he should be.


Was never retconned and she never gave up the power. Right now Umar is Eternity, strangely enough. In fact they plan to make something of it in the future, Giffen said as much on a mb a while back in a manner like "Notice how we did not have Umar bring Eternity back, she is still Eternity."

I don't recall... did they ever mention how the heck Dormammu and Umar were able to beat Eternity in the first place?

It dealt with how the cosmic axis were swinging. Said something like a point was reached were Dormammu and Umar became more powerful and Eternity was at his weakest and thats when it happened. Dormammu has otherwise attacked Eternity twice and has lost both times. This was a bit different and was a one time thing. Shocking that with unlimited power that she is not doing something with it. She was always hot headed and I am suprised she is not going after Strange.

[steve2275]

u mean galactus and thanos arent enuff:p

[Kyle_Ion]

Was never retconned and she never gave up the power. Right now Umar is Eternity, strangely enough. In fact they plan to make something of it in the future, Giffen said as much on a mb a while back in a manner like "Notice how we did not have Umar bring Eternity back, she is still Eternity."



It dealt with how the cosmic axis were swinging. Said something like a point was reached were Dormammu and Umar became more powerful and Eternity was at his weakest and thats when it happened. Dormammu has otherwise attacked Eternity twice and has lost both times. This was a bit different and was a one time thing. Shocking that with unlimited power that she is not doing something with it. She was always hot headed and I am suprised she is not going after Strange.





No, why would they have Umar replace Eternity that is just wrong. Eternity has been around since the beginning of the universe, I won't be satisfied until marvel returns Eternity to his rightful place and he gets rid of Umar and I think that Dr. Strange should get involved and use his influence to bring back Eternity and get his powers/and ability back.

[Jeff-E]

Was that Defenders story even concidered in continuity? If so what the hell is wrong with Strange? Seems like instead of sitting in the Baxter Building and debating the pro's and con's of the registration act, and instead of going off to fast and meditate, he might have said... "Hey guys, uh... a little help over here, Umar's become Eternity. Who's Umar, you ask? Evil lady likes to knock boots with Hulk, we gotta do something" I just figured it for a funny story and didn't take it any further than that.

[Breadfan]

I think in due time, we will see some BIGGIES showing up.

I really don't see why any Watchers are rearing their ugly mugs. They should be around to catalog these events.

I don't understand why everyone is saying that Eternity, Infinity, In-Betweener and etc. shouldn't show up cause it's not their fight.

Excuse me but if Annihulus wins and gets some cosmic power he is going to threaten all of them and make the world in his own mold.

just my thoughts

BF

P.S. Don't quote me cause the words flow but the origin is null.

[The Deadpool]

No, why would they have Umar replace Eternity that is just wrong. Eternity has been around since the beginning of the universe, I won't be satisfied until marvel returns Eternity to his rightful place and he gets rid of Umar and I think that Dr. Strange should get involved and use his influence to bring back Eternity and get his powers/and ability back.

Nope, the Eternity Umar/Dormammu killed has been around for only a few months (comic time). The beggining of universe eternity was killed by his son Entropy and Genis-vell in Crazy Like A Fox...

[Kyle_Ion]

Nope, the Eternity Umar/Dormammu killed has been around for only a few months (comic time). The beggining of universe eternity was killed by his son Entropy and Genis-vell in Crazy Like A Fox...



Interesting, all I can say is that I hope that is that somehow the real Eternity Comes back and punishes his son. Dead really doesn't mean dead in Marvel Universe, cause Marvel usually has a way to bring back the dead. So here is hoping that Marvel brings back Eternity.

[Expletive Deleted]

Entropy didn't kill Eternity so much as he became Eternity.

It's one of those complicated cosmic things.

[Joe Acro]

Was that Defenders story even concidered in continuity?
Yeah, didn't Giffen say he was ignoring the story for Surfer in Annihilation?

[Kyle_Ion]

Entropy didn't kill Eternity so much as he became Eternity.

It's one of those complicated cosmic things.



Okay, when did this happen anyway's. It looks like that I must catch up on what has happened so far in the marvel universe. Can I ask what series this was told in where Entropy became Eternity?

[Expletive Deleted]

CAPTAIN MARVEL v6 #1-6.

Entropy (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/entropym.htm)

[Kyle_Ion]

CAPTAIN MARVEL v6 #1-6.

Entropy (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/entropym.htm)



thanks for the info, but I could never stand Capain Marvel.

[The Deadpool]

Entropy didn't kill Eternity so much as he became Eternity.

It's one of those complicated cosmic things.

He kinda did both.

He killed Eternity. Genis flat out says so. Then, later, he replaced Eternity...

Of course, Entropy is likely as old as the universe, or damned close... Just pointing out, the original Eternity died before. For all we know, the Eternity WE first saw isn't the 'orginal' Eternity anyways...

And we know Galactus is the love child of the former Eternity from the former universe... And Thanos replaced Eternity for like five seconds.

Eternity's job seems to have a relatively high turn over rate for a cosmic entity...

[mswood]

Personally they should use the opurtunity to get rid of a ton of the useless cosmic and abstract beings.

Really I truely miss the good old days when Wacthers, elders, Galactus, Celesitails, Stranger were about the only cosmic beings.

And Eternity, death, order and CHaos where they only real abstact beings.

And most certainly teh Celestials should be going what the hell. They don't like any of hteir projects getting interrupted. And with the scope o this you would thing that is a possability now, before it even expands further.

The Watchers, we should have seen several.

Then just random powerful beings like Starnger should be going okay this is getting serious, this could effect me.

[Kyle_Ion]

I know people probably don't like this entity or if they do, they don't want him to show up but what about the Living Tribunal. You would think that he would show up cause Annihilus is running rampant in the Universe, so he would appear and act accordingly (either it himself or use a whole bunch of superheros). Do you think that Annihilus could actually take out the Living Tribunal with the powers that he has now at this point in time?

[Expletive Deleted]

As long as the multiverse isn't in peril, the Living Tribunal probably wouldn't care all that much.

And, no, Annihilus isn't that powerful.

[Kyle_Ion]

good, I'm glad that Annihilus doesn't have the power to that him out. Even though we rarely see the Living Tribunal he is one of my favorite Cosmic Entity's followed by Eternity and Galactus. The Living Tribunal is like Judge Dredd, (Judge, Jury, and Executioner).

[brainfloat]

I remember Andy saying he did have plans for the Living Tribunal after this series in an aftermath book.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Most of the cosmics are probably just enjoying the show while sitting back in the godly equivalent of a comfy chair while eating the whatever it is cosmic gods and abstract concepts eat instead of popcorn.

And Eternity is probably a giant masochist so he doesn't mind a galactic war in his being. I mean the guy is supposedly everything that exists and he still lets guys like Thanos gather up items of power that can hurt him.

[PatchMadripoor]

With so many worlds annihilated, they have some freed up watchers running around. Or did the Wave eat / kill them, too?

[Expletive Deleted]

They're around. They're just . . . watching.

[XPac]

With so many worlds annihilated, they have some freed up watchers running around. Or did the Wave eat / kill them, too?

They're too busy checking out Civil War.

[marshal99]

Yeah , the watchers are taking bets on who wins which fights. ;)