Darkseid Question....

[JoJangles the Lizard Monster]

Hey out there, does anyone know of a really good Darkseid story?

I thought he was the greatest villain in StAS, but I don't know where to find anything good with him in it where he was at his most evil and powerfulest.

I've read Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was okay, but Darkseid didnt do that much evil. And I read that Superman/Batman book, the one where they reintroduce Supergirl, and it was just horrible. And lastly, I read the original New Gods, it was ok, but I want to read a good- I mean good bastardly Darkseid story.

So please, I need help, what's a good Darkseid story out there I can get?



Oh, and please, nothing ugghhh like that crap Legends crossover story...

[Trademark]

You could try The Great Darkness Saga or the X-Men/Teen Titans Crossover.

[Matt]

The Great Darkness Saga or, even better, Cosmic Odyssey would be the way to go.

[marshal99]

X-men/Teen Titans is a good one

http://www.mp-shoot.com/comics101/images/2004/sep1/darkphoenix.jpg

The old silver age JLA 183-185 (The JLA/JSA/New Gods crossover)
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dstudham/jla01.JPG

Eclipso 10 - Darkseid and Eclipso talk about their evil deeds while playing a special chess game.
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/28384354064.10.gif

Superman/Doomsday : Hunter prey :
Well , Darkseid got his ass kicked by Doomsday but he still recovered enough to deal with the cyborg superman in his own way.

Darkseid/Galactus : THe Hunger
Galactus comes to apokolips to feed as Darkseid stands his ground.

Green Lantern 80 page giant
See the green lantern corps get their asses kicked the first time they ever tried to invade Apokolips.

[dancj]

He's good in JLA: Rock of Ages.

Also he's the major villain in the Ambush Bug miniseries

[Lord S]

He is portrayed exceptionally well, (though a little less bulky), in 'Unlimited Access', which is a Marvel/DC joint crossover. Pretty good stuff.

He uses Magneto and his brotherhood and treats them like his bitches...Juggernaut too.

[Gozwald73]

He orders a Cappucino in Sovereign 7.

It's moments like that make comics fabulous

[Ronnigon]

I think that Darkseid has never been more evil, than when John Byrne wrote him, in his Jack Kirby's Fourth World series.

Byrne even made up an origin sub-series for Darkseid within that series, based on the "Cain and Abel" mythos. It's pretty disturbing.

I would check it out. John Byrne really knows how to script true sadism and egomania. He probably just injects himself.

[Zero Hunter]

To just see his sheer power then go with The Legion of Super Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga. He takes on the entire Legion plus Superboy and Supergirl, and about every other hero in the Legions time period.

If you want some good Darkseid and the rest of the New Gods check out the Orion series by Walt Simonson.

[kenaustin]

To just see his sheer power then go with The Legion of Super Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga. He takes on the entire Legion plus Superboy and Supergirl, and about every other hero in the Legions time period.


He even steals Mordru's power! And then he subjugates every single Daxamite except Mon-El to his will, switches red sun Daxam with yellow sun Apokolips, and forces his new Kryptonian class army to carve their planet into his likeness!

Ah yeah, that was a great story.

[Babylon23]

Definitely the Great Darkness Saga, Cosmic Odyssey and Orion.

Unfortunately, there are very few writers who handle Darkseid well, especially these days. More often than not, he's Superman's whipping boy these days.

And for something outside of comics, all of Darkseid's appearances in Superman: TAS and Justice League.

[botch]

does it not worry anyone that darkseid has so many little great moments, and some are part of a crossover with another company? seriously. i mainly read dc but it's getting unnerving knowing that dc really is lacking in villains and i mean villains in stories with qualities. Marvel has dr doom, galactus, thanos(a darkseid rip off who is handled better than darkseid), apocalypse. great villains who have countless great stories.

[Gozwald73]

does it not worry anyone that darkseid has so many little great moments, and some are part of a crossover with another company? seriously. i mainly read dc but it's getting unnerving knowing that dc really is lacking in villains and i mean villains in stories with qualities. Marvel has dr doom, galactus, thanos(a darkseid rip off who is handled better than darkseid), apocalypse. great villains who have countless great stories.

Powers do not maketh the villain (or hero, for that matter). DC has PLENTY of great villains with great stories. Batman alone has more interesting villains than anything Marvel can come up with. You wanna bark about how great Marvel is? Then run along to the Marvel boards and do it there.
:mad:

[Shellhead]

Darkseid is very scary in the recent Mister Miracle issues of Seven Soldiers.

[Walter Simonson]

Hey out there, does anyone know of a really good Darkseid story?

I thought he was the greatest villain in StAS, but I don't know where to find anything good with him in it where he was at his most evil and powerfulest.

I've read Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was okay, but Darkseid didnt do that much evil. And I read that Superman/Batman book, the one where they reintroduce Supergirl, and it was just horrible. And lastly, I read the original New Gods, it was ok, but I want to read a good- I mean good bastardly Darkseid story.

So please, I need help, what's a good Darkseid story out there I can get?


Curiously, to me at least, I don't think anyone here has suggested reading the original Kirby Fourth World material wherein Darkseid was created. I may have missed the suggestion or maybe it's just too obvious. But I'm a master of nothing if not the obvious. ;-) Of course, you did ask for scenes in which Darkseid is at his most evil and powerfulest and I'm about to make a suggestion that isn't quite about that.

I don't have the comics handy at the moment but I would recommend his appearances in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic as his best scenes. Although he appears in other Fourth World comics, he generally appears in a few panels rather than in lengthy scenes. However, in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic, he has longer interactions with the characters and occasional solo scenes which I find of great interest as reveals of his character.

There is, in particular, an issue of the FP (in the middle of the run--somewhere around issues 5 or 6) where Darkseid visits Earth and goes to an amusement park, Happy Land I think, built by the resources of Apokolips and run by Desaad to shake out the Anti-Life Equation out of the human mind that carries it. During that story, Darkseid goes for a stroll for a couple of pages out into the park, interacting with the human patrons, who of course have no idea what the park is really about or who this large costumed gentleman is. The scene is perhaps two or three pages long and is more revealing of Darkseid's nature than anything anybody else has written or drawn. There is (IMHO) a real beauty about it and a brilliance in the reaction of the child in the scene that is untouched elsewhere.

It's only a couple of pages so don't go nuts but Darkseid's scenes in general throughout the FOREVER PEOPLE are fascinating. You see, in particular, that Darkseid seems to have a certain innate code of behavior that sometimes leads to actions that look suspiciously like mercy, or at the very least, restraint. He is a more complex character than he is often portrayed elsewhere.

It's pretty cool

Best/Walter

[Bat-Mite]

During that story, Darkseid goes for a stroll for a couple of pages out into the park, interacting with the human patrons, who of course have no idea what the park is really about or who this large costumed gentleman is. The scene is perhaps two or three pages long and is more revealing of Darkseid's nature than anything anybody else has written or drawn. There is (IMHO) a real beauty about it and a brilliance in the reaction of the child in the scene that is untouched elsewhere.

I think I know that scene. Is that the one where the kid starts yelling "It's a monster! It's a monster!", the kid's grampa or dad tells him he is just a guy in a costume and that he shouldn't be afraid of him, then Darkseid stops walking, turns around and tells them "Actually, the kid is right; I am a monster". Then the guy tells him he shouldn't go around scaring kids saying things like that and tells Darkseid to scram, and Darkseid just laughs and continues with his morning stroll. That one?

If that's the one, then I totally support that recommendation. That's my favorite Darkseid scene. From almost any other villain you would have expected a different reaction, like skinning the old guy, making a boxing glove out of him and then punching the lights out of the kid with it... or something like that. But Darkseid just laughs and keeps walking. I don't know where Kirby was going with that, but to me it says Darkseid is too cool to care about that.

Oh, and to answer the original question:

The Hal Jordan Spectre series #19 (guest written by Ostrander) -- Nobody has mentioned this one yet, but it's great. The Spectre goes to Apokolips to save a girl's life, but nobody messes with Darkseid's town. The cool part here is not the Spectre vs Darkseid fight - which is practically a non-fight for both sides - but the portrayal of Darkseid as a bizarre alien deity, and the strange punishment he gives the girl Spectre tried to save.

JLA: Rock of Ages -- This one already got mentioned, but I believe it deserves some backing up.

[Desaad]

Curiously, to me at least, I don't think anyone here has suggested reading the original Kirby Fourth World material wherein Darkseid was created. I may have missed the suggestion or maybe it's just too obvious. But I'm a master of nothing if not the obvious. ;-) Of course, you did ask for scenes in which Darkseid is at his most evil and powerfulest and I'm about to make a suggestion that isn't quite about that.

I don't have the comics handy at the moment but I would recommend his appearances in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic as his best scenes. Although he appears in other Fourth World comics, he generally appears in a few panels rather than in lengthy scenes. However, in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic, he has longer interactions with the characters and occasional solo scenes which I find of great interest as reveals of his character.

There is, in particular, an issue of the FP (in the middle of the run--somewhere around issues 5 or 6) where Darkseid visits Earth and goes to an amusement park, Happy Land I think, built by the resources of Apokolips and run by Desaad to shake out the Anti-Life Equation out of the human mind that carries it. During that story, Darkseid goes for a stroll for a couple of pages out into the park, interacting with the human patrons, who of course have no idea what the park is really about or who this large costumed gentleman is. The scene is perhaps two or three pages long and is more revealing of Darkseid's nature than anything anybody else has written or drawn. There is (IMHO) a real beauty about it and a brilliance in the reaction of the child in the scene that is untouched elsewhere.

It's only a couple of pages so don't go nuts but Darkseid's scenes in general throughout the FOREVER PEOPLE are fascinating. You see, in particular, that Darkseid seems to have a certain innate code of behavior that sometimes leads to actions that look suspiciously like mercy, or at the very least, restraint. He is a more complex character than he is often portrayed elsewhere.

It's pretty cool

Best/Walter


A wonderful reccomendation in terms of the character of Darkseid. I would argue that a few scenes and/or showings have better encapsulized Darkseid's character over the years - all of them coming from your run, as a matter of fact - but Kirby always wrote Darkseid as an intensly complex and multi-faceted character.

There have been a number of great stories told over the years that use Darkseid as a foil - Great Darkness Saga being one of them - but this isn't the Darkseid that we saw in Kirby's New Gods, Mr. Miracle, and Forever People. It was a fiercely powerful creature who wanted to control the universe and would do anything to gain that control, and nothing more. There was really nothing else there. And I'm saying that as a big fan of the Great Darkness Saga, Rock of Ages, etc.

That said, not until you picked up the Orion series - and I say that having read every Darkseid appearance so far as I know - did I feel that we finally got a glimpse of "Darkseid" again.

You had a few physically imposing scenes for Darkseid in your run - not many, but a few. But they definitely weren't my favorite parts of the book.

My favorite scene, bar none, comes from issue 15. Orion's idictment of Darkseid, his final fate, and Darkseid's reaction (both the tear and his reaction to Lightray)...never has the character seemed so real. Never has any villain seemed so complex.

Really, if you want to see the REAL Darkseid, you have to stick to the Kirby stuff and the Orion stuff. At least, IMHO.

For fun, compelling and high-octane stories, you can't beat "Great Darkness Saga", "Rock of Ages", his Martian Manhunter appearances, and a few others.

Stay away from Rock of Ages. One of the worst renditions of the New Gods in general I have ever had the misfortune of reading (And I say that as someone who has loved a lot of Jim Starlin's work).



Desaad/Astro

[CarolStrick]

Any reactions from the masses to Wonder Woman's mind-rape of Darkseid during OWAW?

[berk]

Great example from Walt Simonson; I just rooted out my copy to re-read it, and one striking thing is Darkseid's last line in the scene, as the kid and his grandfather run away: "And still, the cosmic joke escapes him. For how can he cope with me by shunning me - his other face," makiong it pretty clear that Darkseid is, among other things, the Jungian shadow.

I try to stay away from most of the non-Kirby stuff. Even fan-favourites like Rock of Ages and the Great Darkness miss the point of the character, IMO; perhaps inevitably so, since neither the New Gods concept as a whole nor its individual characters really fit into the DCU superhero-story-form.

Another favourite scene of mine is the end of the last issue of Kirby's Mister Miracle series (#19?), where the wedding of Scott Free and Barda is interrupted by an attack by Granny Goodness and some Para-Demons, who are then driven off by Orion - come to think of it, this is one of Orion's best scenes as well - and then at the very end, Darkseid comes down like a tornado. A small kid (again!) says something like, "Did you see the storm?" and Darkseid answers, "I am the storm."

If only writers would take the time to read Kirby's stories, maybe the character might fare better in their stories. Even a cursory inspection of the originals would at least show them what Darkseid doesn't do: rant, gloat, indulge in foolish boasts, get in fights, ...

[cactusmaac]

The Hal Jordan Spectre series #19 (guest written by Ostrander) -- Nobody has mentioned this one yet, but it's great. The Spectre goes to Apokolips to save a girl's life, but nobody messes with Darkseid's town. The cool part here is not the Spectre vs Darkseid fight - which is practically a non-fight for both sides - but the portrayal of Darkseid as a bizarre alien deity, and the strange punishment he gives the girl Spectre tried to save.


That was a fantastic issue. It's like Killing Joke and Lex Luthor:MOS in how it shows you exactly what motivates a supervillain.

[cactusmaac]

If only writers would take the time to read Kirby's stories, maybe the character might fare better in their stories. Even a cursory inspection of the originals would at least show them what Darkseid [i]doesn't[i] do: rant, gloat, indulge in foolish boasts, get in fights, ...

So was the Timmverse animated version of the character close to the original?

[Guts/Batman]

That was a fantastic issue. It's like Killing Joke and Lex Luthor:MOS in how it shows you exactly what motivates a supervillain.

I got that issue awhile back. Since I am a Spectre and Darkseid fanatic, I found that one in the backissue boxes. I like the story. I definitely liked it.

I also recently got the Great Darkness Saga about 6-7 monthes back. I glad I got it. It's one of the stories I read the most. Great story. Darkseid was a total bastard in that story. Loved it.

Darkseid has always been a three dimension character to me so it disturbs me when I read stuff like what happened in S/B #13 and #14. That was a time I was thinking about getting into the series, but that totally drove me away from it. And to be honest, I haven't gotten any Loeb title hereafter.

I also own Rock of Ages because I am such a Darkseid fan. I go back and forth on this story all the time. Some days I like it, some days I absolutely despise it.

I have yet to get the Fourth World books yet, though my comic shop has them.

[XPac]

Basic rule of thumb... any Darkseid appearance that has NO SUPERMAN in sight is worth checking out.

[Babylon23]

Curiously, to me at least, I don't think anyone here has suggested reading the original Kirby Fourth World material wherein Darkseid was created. I may have missed the suggestion or maybe it's just too obvious. But I'm a master of nothing if not the obvious. ;-) Of course, you did ask for scenes in which Darkseid is at his most evil and powerfulest and I'm about to make a suggestion that isn't quite about that.

I don't know about anybody else, but I didn't mention the original New Gods series because the original poster stated he'd already read it. Personally, I'd recommend Kirby's original fourth world stuff to anybody.

I don't have the comics handy at the moment but I would recommend his appearances in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic as his best scenes. Although he appears in other Fourth World comics, he generally appears in a few panels rather than in lengthy scenes. However, in the FOREVER PEOPLE comic, he has longer interactions with the characters and occasional solo scenes which I find of great interest as reveals of his character.

There is, in particular, an issue of the FP (in the middle of the run--somewhere around issues 5 or 6) where Darkseid visits Earth and goes to an amusement park, Happy Land I think, built by the resources of Apokolips and run by Desaad to shake out the Anti-Life Equation out of the human mind that carries it. During that story, Darkseid goes for a stroll for a couple of pages out into the park, interacting with the human patrons, who of course have no idea what the park is really about or who this large costumed gentleman is. The scene is perhaps two or three pages long and is more revealing of Darkseid's nature than anything anybody else has written or drawn. There is (IMHO) a real beauty about it and a brilliance in the reaction of the child in the scene that is untouched elsewhere.

It's only a couple of pages so don't go nuts but Darkseid's scenes in general throughout the FOREVER PEOPLE are fascinating. You see, in particular, that Darkseid seems to have a certain innate code of behavior that sometimes leads to actions that look suspiciously like mercy, or at the very least, restraint. He is a more complex character than he is often portrayed elsewhere.

It's pretty cool

Best/Walter

There are two things I loved about Kirby's depiction of New Gods:

1) If you look at those stories, Darkseid is very rarely in them. It's interesting how little he personally does in those books. However, he's still a presence in every story. And people are terrified of him. Without really showing Darksied, Kirby still managed to show how intimidating he was.

2) Much like the scene you describe, Kirby had this way of showing Darkseid in completely normal surroundings, which made him even more intimidating.

[XPac]

1) If you look at those stories, Darkseid is very rarely in them. It's interesting how little he personally does in those books. However, he's still a presence in every story. And people are terrified of him. Without really showing Darksied, Kirby still managed to show how intimidating he was.



That's a lesson that DC really needs to learn.

The more you have Darkseid popping up, the more he's gonna lose since villians almost have to lose by design. His appearances should be rare and significant... anytime Darkseid is involved it should be an event. That was the brilliance of his use back then. It shouldn't merely be just another job for Superman.

[Babylon23]

What writers don't seem to realise is that Darkseid is both a master manipulator and a despotic ruler. It was rare to see him getting his hands dirty. He'd usually work through surrogates, often keeping his involvement in scemes hidden.

Unfortunately, this is a problem that affects most of Kirby's New Gods. Orion is often presented as a cosmic Wolverine who flies off the bat as often as possible, whereas Kirby's Orion was a noble warrior who fought to control his violent impulses. Kalibak was meant to be a god of rage, Orion's equal in battle. More often than not, they fought one another to a standstill. Now Kalibak is jobbed to every hero as they make they way up to Darkseid.

It gets worse with the lesser known characters. Take Dr. Bedlam for example. Dr. Bedlam is a god of Fear, a disembodied entity. On the rare occasions he used today, it's as a mad scientist who can transfer his consciousness into different bodies.

[berk]

So was the Timmverse animated version of the character close to the original?Not in my opinion. Like some of the more popular DCU/superhero versions, the Timmverse character is more like Marvel's Thanos, which I think misses the point of the original.

[berk]

Unfortunately, this is a problem that affects most of Kirby's New Gods. Orion is often presented as a cosmic Wolverine who flies off the bat as often as possible, whereas Kirby's Orion was a noble warrior who fought to control his violent impulses. Kalibak was meant to be a god of rage, Orion's equal in battle. More often than not, they fought one another to a standstill. Now Kalibak is jobbed to every hero as they make they way up to Darkseid. Yeah. Same thing with The Eternals. Not impressed with Gaiman's new series so far.

[Silas Burr]

First and foremost I have to add another vote for the Spectre issue. It really shows Darkseid's impressive standing in the universe and his perspectives. There are alot of good post-Crisis Darkseid stories in my opinion. His appearences in Suicide Squad and Mister Miracle for example. What I really liked about Darkseid was that he was a regular character in the New Gods books. He wasn't just someone they carted out every now and then to play the stereotypical villain role and then disappear, he was a cast member. That's pretty unique.

[Zero Hunter]

Another good one where Darkseid is barely seen is one of the Legion of Super Heroes Annuals where they discover what he did to one of the twins of Saturn Girl and Lighting Lad as revenge for stopping him during the Great Darkness Saga. He only appears in I think one page, but his evil is felt throughout the whole issue.

It was in Tales of the Legion of Super Heroes Annual #5

[botch]

Powers do not maketh the villain (or hero, for that matter). DC has PLENTY of great villains with great stories. Batman alone has more interesting villains than anything Marvel can come up with. You wanna bark about how great Marvel is? Then run along to the Marvel boards and do it there.
:mad:

i forgot to mention i mainly buy dc, like 85%. don't be such a child. i gave reasons and you just talked crap. not many people think any of batmans villains(who are great villains) lay a finger on Dr Doom or Galactus.

[Mike42]

shouldn't we have seen darkseid somewhere in IC?Just saying.

[Guts/Batman]

shouldn't we have seen darkseid somewhere in IC?Just saying.

Where would he have done what? Get beat by Superman again?

I got what I wanted: Darkseid nowhere in sight of that overrated story.

[the4thpip]

Any reactions from the masses to Wonder Woman's mind-rape of Darkseid during OWAW?
Didn't he buy a teddy for Catwoman's kid?

Oh wait, that was the Dark Knight, not Darkseid. My bad.