CIVIL WAR: Am I a Bad Person?

[Kid Monster]

I want blood.

I want Civil War to be the Watchmen or Kingdom Come of the Marvel Universe. I want it to be Captain America's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns.

I want it to end with a lot of heroes dead. I want major established characters to be left hating their former friends, exiled to Europe, or rotting in prision. I want Speedball to die alone, pissing himself as prison guards strap him down to the lethal injection table, whimpering with his last breath that he just wanted to help people. I don't want to see the X-Men holed up in their beautiful palatial mansion, lounging by the pool next to expensive marble statues... I want to see them as fugitives on the run, hunted like animals by a world that truely fears and hates them.

A lot of people are complaining that Iron Man is becoming a "Bad guy". They are right, he is...and I like him better that way. Years ago, I read a John Byrne interview regarding the Dark Phoneix Saga... Byrne said the the original storyline was inspired by the simple idea of having a major hero become a villain and it being a permenant change in the status quo, not something that is reversed after a few issues. It strikes me as sad that 30 years later no one has really gone all the way with that idea... even though in Iron Man's case "Authoritarian Heavy" might be a more appropriate term than "Villain". Sorry, but "Borderline Fascist" Iron Man is just cooler than "Nice-guy-as-long-as-he-stays-off-the-sauce" Iron Man.

I want this series to define what Marvel comics will be like for the next thirty years. I want it to be like DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths in that it becomes a turning point, with the Marvel Universe forever divided between "Pre-Civil War" and "Post-Civil War". I want this to be the one damn crossover where everything is not back to normal one year later.

I want something ruthless. Why do all of the really great stories about a hero's last, valiant battle always have to be "What if?" or "Elseworlds"?

[TheCrow13]

Agreed man. I want hardcore bloodspread. I wish this was a stand alone title then they could kill anyone and everyone

[Capt Hunter]

I'd like nothing more then the Marvel Universe become a wasteland.... I want World War III... I want the Marvel Universe to go to war.. Countries invading other countries... Dr. Doom becoming the new Hitler..... the possibilites are endless....

[Kevinroc]

Not really. The main reason why these stories aren't written as a "Dark Knight Returns" is because these characters are expected to continue being published. Marvel makes money publishing the adventures with these characters and licensing these characters to other mediums.

[TheCrow13]

This is why i read walking dead, violence and no one is safe ever. Recently they maimed the main character for life.....

[Doombot330]

I completely Agree, some real massive bloodsed would be great for the story. So far the only people who have died are people from the Stamford incidence. They keep promising that the series will redefine the Marvel Universe but so far I haven't seen it.

[Haunt]

This is why i read walking dead, violence and no one is safe ever. Recently they maimed the main character for life.....


Kirkman's good about that. he permanently crippled his new character Freedom Ring in Marvel Team-Up, as well. i wonder which limb the new Ant-Man will lose.



yah Walking Dead!

[Beast]

Not really. The main reason why these stories aren't written as a "Dark Knight Returns" is because these characters are expected to continue being published. Marvel makes money publishing the adventures with these characters and licensing these characters to other mediums.
Exactly. There's a reason those stories are 'Possible Future Stories' for DC and Marvel. ;)

Besides, Marvel's had enough bloodshed and death to last a while as of late. Time to pull back.

[Markavian]

Exactly. There's a reason those stories are 'Possible Future Stories' for DC and Marvel. ;)

Besides, Marvel's had enough bloodshed and death to last a while as of late. Time to pull back.
I concur..Lets hope they keep the Massive Bloodshed for Ultimate MU or Earth Zombie or What if Stories! The MU is supposed to be a Near Mirrior of OUR World after all. :cool:

[Magneto Rocks]

I agree with the original poster to a degree. Firstly, I want Speedball dead, and I don't give a damn how, jusst do it. He annoys me, and he wastes valuable space in a CIVIL WAR book when his story has very little to do with the aforementioned WAR ITSELF!

Yes, I want bloodshed. I want lots of minor heroes dying. They called the last battle the 'Battle of the century' I want to MAKE it that. Hell, they should have gotten George Perez just so they can do those AMAZING double-page battle spreads. I mean, jsut look up 'Battle of Metropolis' on wikipedia. THAT is the final battle I want, an absoloutely all-out enromous battle, not just thirty or so characters but EVERY. HERO. IN. MARVEL. And I mean EVERY hero. All these randomers we've seen, bust them out of 42, get them in there for one colossal final scrap.

But sadly, Mr mcNiven, though a FANTASTIC artist, doesn't do well with mass battle scenes. Ah well... I can dream :'(

[scottv]

I think that if there was a lot of deaths then it would push Marvel colser to the dark side of comics.

[Starkicker]

Killing off character is just a cheap thrill, and often a sign of half ass writing. Rarely do you really need to kill someone off. If there are no other reasons for reader to pick up a book, there is no reason for the book.

[Weirdopky]

ok, i get it, people want other people dead, but what i want to see is some people come back to life. Like hawkeye and Jean Grey. I mean, she's been killed so many times and ret conned into being brought back. Why, you ask? No idea, maybe Marvel thought it was funny that she couldn't stay alive very long. I mean, I agree there should be more deaths, but there should be some sort of fight to cause those, and right now, Cap's renegades are in hiding.

[-S-Man-]

A guy I know said/ predicted that either the Falcon or the Patriot would die. I think this would lead to more bloodsheld.

I think if the there are going to be any deaths, then they must be handled correctly. I don't mean killing by the rules not to offend kids or to get more sales but to kill for the sake of the story which now seems unlikely.

Back in Avengers: Disassembled Ant-Man and Hawkeye (and Jack of Hearts if he wasn't already wasn't dead) died, and that wasn't even a war. If this series ends with only one death then I would be a little disapointed.

[Alan2099]

I'm reading this topic and I can't help but think of this old strip.
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050606.html

[scratchie]

Killing off character is just a cheap thrill, and often a sign of half ass writing. And if there's one thing we don't want in Civil War, it's half-ass writing! Oh my goodness!

[Tommy]

Killing off characters just means that they are going to be resurrected down the line. And I would HATE for Civil War to result in the mess that Crisis on the Infinite Earths did.

[DocZulu]

Killing off character is just a cheap thrill, and often a sign of half ass writing. Rarely do you really need to kill someone off. If there are no other reasons for reader to pick up a book, there is no reason for the book.

SInce when is dead really "Dead" in super hero comics?

It would be much better to turn someone "evil" or remove characters from Earth/Earth dimension.

Costume changes and "death" mean very little.

I do agree with the original poster in one respect--we need a shake up. Something that matters. The universe of capes and masks can get boring and redundant--given that these books will never end, you have to revitalize your books and, thusly, revitalize reader interest.

[Beast]

ok, i get it, people want other people dead, but what i want to see is some people come back to life. Like hawkeye and Jean Grey. I mean, she's been killed so many times and ret conned into being brought back. Why, you ask? No idea, maybe Marvel thought it was funny that she couldn't stay alive very long. I mean, I agree there should be more deaths, but there should be some sort of fight to cause those, and right now, Cap's renegades are in hiding.
Hawkeye and Jean Grey arn't dead. And Jean has only died 2-3 times, and one of them wasn't even her. ;)

[Gregg Helmberger]

I don't want to see a bunch of characters killed for the sake of killing a bunch of characters. That's even more pointless than most of Marvel's big events, IMO. A single death of a major character, happening at the proper point and with correct buildup, can have vastly more emotional impact than the deaths of countless C-listers in some big, goofball DC-style battle.

One thing I will disagree with is the poster above who wanted a world-shattering war, Doom as Hitler, etc. That has nothing to do with what I read comics for, and the day that happens is the day I drop comics forever and never look back. If I want that kind of lunacy I'll read the newspapers.

[Kid Monster]

Civil War is a major storyline about, well, a war. I think the stakes are a little different than other crossovers.

Also, and I know this is a very controversial opinion... I think the Marvel universe frankly has a lot of dead weight. A wholesale purge of directionless (Cable), minor (Non-core X-Men), redundant (Marrow & every other Wolverine-type except Wolverine) or just plain dumb (Most of the "Extreme!" characters from the entire decade of the 1990s) characters would help streamline the universe and add a little extra focus and gravity to the mission of the survivors.

[Magneto Rocks]

I believe Millar said he felt one or two major deaths were a far better option than lots of minor deaths. Course if we don't get minor deaths, I want to see a REALLY major death.

[K.I.M.]

I completely Agree, some real massive bloodsed would be great for the story. So far the only people who have died are people from the Stamford incidence. They keep promising that the series will redefine the Marvel Universe but so far I haven't seen it.

And the casualties in Civil War serve to bring some realism to the fight - kind of like in Lord of the Rings Return of the King when the hobbits return to the Shire and find that they have to fight to get back the shire they love (I am talking the book here not the movie) - in both stories the war effects everyone, and is brought home. If there were no casualties (whether title characters or secondary characters) it wouldn't be much of a war. Especially if it were only secondary characters getting killed - that would be such a cop out. A war without casaulties might be like a Cold War...but that wouldn't make a very good comic book.