Are the times of the secret identity over?

[Kummi]

Parker - out;
Stark -out;
a bunch of Pro Reg Heroes - out;
Murdock -out (maybe);
Diby -out;
Queen - out (maybe)
Kent - out to a lot of People (see the Subjekt 17 sl)
Wayne - out to a lot of People (See the Son of Bat sl) ----

I get the feeling that in the times of myspace and blogs where the "publication of the private" is a common phenomenon the concept of secret identities are conceived to be outdated. But: secret identity is privacy and privacy is a high value (although there are obviously differences between us privacy/regulation obsessed europeans and the more hands on americans).

Please discuss.

[Kummi]

sorry , it is ralph dibny of course.

[daniel2099]

sorry , it is ralph dibny of course.

did he ever have one?

[Nick Kal]

did he ever have one?

For like an issue...

No, it's not done. Secret Identities are important for superheroes. They always have been and always will... especially to the more iconic characters. Quesada has even admitted that the Spider-Man Unmasked story is not permanent.

[CaptainAwesome]

Secret identities are a staple of the superhero genre. Even if some of the major superheroes give up their secret id's, there will always be those who dont. For example, Batman and Superman could not give up their secret id's permanently, it is too imbeded in the fabric of the characters. Even though Spider-Man seems to have strayed from the typical secret id flock, he will be back. If you take a step back and look at the big picture, this is just the kinds of stories Spider-Man always has. There is always some major twist at the beginning and he spends the rest of the story trying to put his life back together. From clones, to venom, to the death of whomever it is at the time, that is just how Spider-Man works. In short, dispite the fact that so many people seem to be giving up their secret id's, there are plenty of people who find it just as important to protect theirs. That is one of the major story points in Civil War, the fight over the sceret id. I think that if it sparks such debate among fans and characters, that means that the concept of a secret identity cannot be dead.

[Kummi]

that was what I wanted to hear.
But how will they put peter's secret identity back into the box?

[Gregg Helmberger]

One way would be for Peter (as Spidey) to be seen to die in a very public way -- except of course he isn't dead, and he assumes a secret ID provided by Nick Fury. That would also achieve the Marvel goal of getting him away from MJ without killing her or divorcing them.

[Lou_Kayge]

I boggles my mind that there's a push for "realism" in Marvel Comics,yet the belief that secret IDs' are passe' or unnecessary. In real-life there are scores of undercover operatives(from local police departments to the intelligence communities) that have to work under pseudonyms or false ID's to be effective. Would it make sense for an undercover DEA agent who's posing as a drug smuggler to go into a meeting with a cartel bigwig wearing one of those"Hell My Name Is..." stickers(the once we wear at conferences,etc) with his given name on there. of course not. In the MU,we're supposed to believe that S.H.I.E.L.D and other law-enforcement/intelligent agencies DON'T have covert operatives who have to have secret id's to get thier mission accomplished AND protect thier lives? Come on.

Those of you who are reading CIVIL WAR,please find the time to rent the movie DONNIE BRASCO and the DVD of the Showtime series SLEEPER CELL. They issue of id's,secrecy and thier effects and repercussions are well-adressed there.

[Kummi]

and all the more, the disregard of secret identities has given an unintented push to the idle fame monger super heroes that never wanted to conceil their ID in the first place (the new warrior kind of superheroes).

[Violently Apathetic]

Question; Is Moon Knight's ID publically known? I was trying to think of any major superheroes who still have a secret ID in the MU and he was the first to come up...

[Lou_Kayge]

It also depends what is meant by secret. There are some heroes who's id's are/were known to law-enforcement/intelligence community,but not necessarily to Joe.Q.Public. For example,unless they wear a disguise,not one member of the Fantastic Four can walk into a Starbucks for a latte without being recognized. It's possible that Captain America-Steve Rogers could. Though he's been superheroing since WWII is it possible that your average citizen hasn't seen a photo of him with his mask off. They could stand next to him in a checkout line and possibly think that this "buff blonde guy" is a personal trainer,cop,pro athlete,actor,bouncer.

That's why the scene in SPIDER-MAN II when Peter is unmasked on the train isn't as big a deal as it seems. Take it from someone who's lived in NYC all his life,there are hundreds if not more,brunette,20-something white guys with a wiry build. As long as there was no name to go with the face Peter was okay. The thing is though,in the movie universe he has to stay out of the limelight and try to never get photographed or on camera as Peter Parker.

[Haunt]

Question; Is Moon Knight's ID publically known? .

hard to say. he has many. but i doubt that a rich mercenary type would divulge his identity to the press or anyone else. heck, he was spying on the Avengers (a team he belonged to) at one point; paranoid bastich.

[bulbasteve]

Well as for Civil War, Stark's was already out and back a few times. Noone else has really been outed except some New Warriors from Frontline, but really who cares about them anwyay? ;p

In the storyline itself there is nothing about having to go public and according to the latest She-Hulk only the top ranks of SHIELD would know it, so it's not like there will be a leak since it's all the same people who had them before. Of course these writers bang every half thought out political allegory they can into the story...so maybe not.

[BigBoss]

I think so but it kinda sucks it was always cool for people to keep these secret identy's it truly made them look like a super hero vigalante.

[the eternal]

i'm not quite sure about daredevil at the moment after i read dd 87. We'll see :rolleyes: that's why i read comics :D

[-S-Man-]

Hypothetical Scenario: The Pro-sides lose because S.H.I.E.L.D were found out to be corrupt and Superhumans were being ordered to fight defenceless people and bad stuff like that. And obviously people like Spidey won't stand for that...how will the hide their secret ID's.

[scottv]

Like someoen else said the secret IDs are one of the staples of the comic book hero. I would like to see Peter's secret ID rstored but I would also be very dissapointed if they tried to erase what has happened or something.

[Jeff-E]

I hope so. Secret Id's don't make since in today's day and age. Plus getting rid of them forces writers to create new stories based on this and keeps them from using the old, "Oh, no who's just found out my identity this week?" story in books like Spiderman.

[BigBoss]

i'm not quite sure about daredevil at the moment after i read dd 87. We'll see :rolleyes: that's why i read comics :D that was pehnominal issue.

[DEWLine]

Secret identity?

Short answer: Dead concept. Deader than Pierre Trudeau. Some things should stay deconstructed.

Longer answer: The more I think about it, the fact that we live in the age of an Internet full of "Little Brothers", where:

One guy with a blog can blow the whistle on the likes of Sony with that rootkit mess.
Terror groups get nailed via their own e-mail traffic at least once a month.
Google Earth exists for anyone and everyone who wants to use it.
And that software exists as an indirect result of surveillance satellites...
...pretty much puts new nails in the coffin of the concept of the secret ID every day.

[Doom Hammer]

Quesada has even admitted that the Spider-Man Unmasked story is not permanent.

Can I get a link, maybe? I'm just interested in what he had to say about that. It sounds kind of weak to already be prepared to blow away such a huge development.

[Lou_Kayge]

Gotta disagree Dewline,check out this article here:


http://www.nydailynews.com/08-18-2006/news/story/444588p-374428c.html


Why are the readers not given this cop's name? Because he's currently involved in undercover work that's why. So in a way he has a "secret identity". Passe' huh?

[AllisterH]

Gotta disagree Dewline,check out this article here:


http://www.nydailynews.com/08-18-2006/news/story/444588p-374428c.html


Why are the readers not given this cop's name? Because he's currently involved in undercover work that's why. So in a way he has a "secret identity". Passe' huh?

That's kind of different though. The cop's name isn't known to the public but it is known to someone and most likely a "few" someones. Compare that to say Batman.

The only people who know Batman's identity are people he has told (although did they ever Retcon Tim's knowledge of how he found out about Batman?)

[Lou_Kayge]

The point is his ID has to be kept secret to :a) protect him and b) so he can do his job effectively. My point is that the powers-that-be at Marvel can't in one breath say"We want realism" and in the other say"secret ID's are passe'" when there are real-life covert operatives who have to maintain "secret id's" in order to do thier jobs effectively and protect them and thier loved ones.

[Keith_Martineau]

A large part of Civil War, according to Quesada, is that it's going to make the idea of the secret identity more important again. He's stated he felt like secret identities had become kinda passe, everyone know who everyone was, lots of heroes were outed. So part of this was to reestablish secret identities.

Yes, I'm sure many of you will point out that Spiderman was unmasked during this story---but keep in mind the story is NOT FINISHED yet. There will be large ramifications about Spidey's unmasking. Wait and see.

[Lorendiac]

that was what I wanted to hear.
But how will they put peter's secret identity back into the box?

Last December I posted a list of ways to do damage control when a superhero's secret identity is in jeopardy. I wrote this long before I knew that Marvel was going to have Peter yank off his mask in public in "Civil War."

Here's the link if you want to see all the details of the different ways I mentioned, with examples from previous stories where one way or another has been used to clean up the mess so things can go on much the same as before!

Secret Identities: 10 Ways to Unspill the Beans (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=96053)

Looking back on it, most of the items on my list dealt with cases where only one or two people had suddenly gotten a look under the hero's mask (or had some other way of putting two and two together). I only see two items on the list that really work well when large numbers of people have learned a secret identity.

03. Retcon

10. Mindwipe

In Retcon, the whole universe gets changed so that the story of the hero's secret being released "never happened after all!" For instance, anybody who knew Superman was Clark Kent in DC's Pre-COIE era didn't know it anymore when he got his Post-COIE Reboot, unless a new story was written to have them learn it all over again!

In Mindwipe, a telepath or a magician or something blankets the entire globe, if necessary, with some sort of mental whammy that erases the knowledge from everybody's mind. I'm told that the Spectre erased the previously "public knowledge" of Wally West's secret identity from the minds of everyone on Earth, some years ago.

I think one or the other of those two approaches is extremely likely to be used to put Peter's Sacred Status Quo back the way it used to be where his secret identity is concerned. To be perfectly frank, I've taken that for granted ever since I first heard he was going to reveal himself to the public. I knew Marvel would never let it last! :)

[DEWLine]

And ideally, this is the arrangement that Stark and the US Congress are trying to sell the reluctant capes and masks on: Licensed, trained, federally authorized and seconded -- loaned, in other words -- to SHIELD.

As to the concept of the secret ID, I still maintain that in the comics, the slow dismantlement must and will continue. Peter's is the latest step, and it should continue...and the fallout with it.

Anything else is artistically, technically and ethically problematic.

[Lorendiac]

And ideally, this is the arrangement that Stark and the US Congress are trying to sell the reluctant capes and masks on: Licensed, trained, federally authorized and seconded -- loaned, in other words -- to SHIELD.

As to the concept of the secret ID, I still maintain that in the comics, the slow dismantlement must and will continue. Peter's is the latest step, and it should continue...and the fallout with it.

Anything else is artistically, technically and ethically problematic.

I'm not sure where you get "artistically" problematic from.

In the real world, I would agree with you about the "technically" and "ethically" parts. If someone with the ability to bench-press ten tons was running round fighting crime and damaging property with his superstrong hands, wearing a mask all the time, and then scampering up the walls and running away whenever the police wanted to interview him and maybe call him as a witness in court (or disappearing over the rooftops when someone might want to sue him for property damage or whatever), then I would say that yes, there were some serious ethical concerns here if this guy thought he could do all these violent things and never be held accountable if he did anything really wrong.

And in technical terms, in these days of surveillance technology, DNA testing, etc., it would be very hard for such a disguise to stand the test of time. Again, in the real world.

But Spider-Man doesn't live in the real world, nor a very close facsimile of it, and I don't really want him to. I look upon stories of superheroes with great powers and secret identities as "escape literature," and I'm perfectly willing to let the writers of such literature show their heroes getting away with behavior that would be considered outrageous and almost doomed to failure in the real world, even if you or I had the same powers as the fictional heroes in question.

[Doombot330]

Quesada has even admitted that the Spider-Man Unmasked story is not permanent.

When did he say that?????

[DEWLine]

He backs off of keeping that act and the consequences of that act permanent...then I fear that Marvel will be in trouble.

[Lorendiac]

He backs off of keeping that act and the consequences of that act permanent...then I fear that Marvel will be in trouble.

I'm surprised by the way you phrase that. When you talk about the possibility that Quesada will "back off," I get the feeling that you are making the following assumptions. Correct me if I'm wrong!

First Assumption: "At the time that Quesada must have given the go-ahead for Spider-Man to publicly unmask himself as part of 'Civil War,' Quesada presumably was Firmly Committed to the idea that this marked the beginning of a proud new era in Spider-Man Continuity, so that for the next 10 or 20 years, or even longer, all the stories in the Spider-Man titles set in the regular Marvel Universe would rest on the assumption that everyone and his brother knows who Spider-Man really is, and the drastic consequences of this in his social life, on his family members, and so forth, would be exhaustively explored from many different angles by many different writers as part of their own runs on one title or another."

Second Assumption: "Therefore, if Spider-Man somehow 'gets his secret identity back' pretty quickly, perhaps in a story published six months from now, this will prove that Quesada completely lost his nerve at the last minute, and backed away from the bold and controversial decision he had previously made to 'really shake things up' by killing the concept of Spidey's secret identity and leaving that concept dead, dead, DEAD!"

Is that a fair summary of what was going through your mind when you talked about Quesada possibly "backing off"?

I ask because when I first heard the news that Spider-Man was publicly unmasking himself, my interpretation of what Marvel was up to was completely different from your own.

My attitude went like this: "When DC killed Superman in late 1992, I took it for granted it was just a Temporary Stunt to Boost Sales. When they crippled Batman and put him in a wheelchair in "Knightfall" several months later in 1993, I took it for granted it was just a Temporary Stunt to Boost Sales. And now that Marvel is 'unmasking' Peter Parker, I take it for granted that it's just a Temporary Stunt to Boost Sales! Superman came back from the dead in less than a year, Batman recovered the use of his legs after about a year, and Peter Parker will somehow regain the privacy of his secret identity within a year or less!"

I never saw any reason to think Marvel had the slightest intention of making their beloved cash cow (Spider-Man) suffer a Drastic Permanent Change that would make his lifestyle very different from the image that tens of millions of members of the "general public" have of him if they watch him in movies and the occasional TV episode, but never actually bother to buy his comic books anymore.