CBR NEWS: Strange Medicine: Vaughan Talks "Dr. Strange: The Oath."

[Jonah Weiland]

This October, the Sorcerer Supreme will embark on a personal quest that will take him across dimensions and the darker corners of New York City. CBR News spoke with "Dr. Strange: The Oath" writer Brian K. Vaughan about the series.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8134

[CMBMOOL]

Nice way to get the Doctor back to his roots. :D

[stealthwise]

A Dr. Strange I might actually want to read?

Good lord...

[Soundrave]

Sounds interesting.

I hope he remembers that Strange was born in 1930 and the car accident was in 1963 -- the Doctor is not one of these "post-Fantastic Four" heroes who are part of Marvel's sliding timeline.

[Zombienorthstar]

A Dr. Strange I might actually want to read?

Good lord...


Ditto...the Iron Fist pages alone have me peeing my pants with excitement.:D

[Rich L]

I really enjoyed Martins' art in Batgirl Year One, and BKV's The Escapists was the best read of the week last week, so I'm looking forward to this.

It's been quite a while since anyone did the good Doctor justice.

[Captain Exaggeration]

Marvel.com said that by the end of the series he will be joining a new team..... could it be that my dream is finally fullfilled? Could Dr. Strange be joining the Mighty Avengers?

[Hi-Fi]

This is going to be so good. Vaughan will work his magic and BAM! I'll become Dr. Strange biggest fan.

[Cayman]

Can't wait. I hope we see Clea.

Cay

[mdg1]

I think Strange's new sidekick is going to be Night Nurse... which is just weird.... :)

[Christopher O]

I hope he remembers that Strange was born in 1930 and the car accident was in 1963 -- the Doctor is not one of these "post-Fantastic Four" heroes who are part of Marvel's sliding timeline.
Why? What's significant about the dates? Do you honestly want a 76 year-old Dr. Strange?

[Young Avenger]

Marvel.com said that by the end of the series he will be joining a new team..... could it be that my dream is finally fullfilled? Could Dr. Strange be joining the Mighty Avengers?

Or Dr. Strange reforming the Champions as Marvel's premire mystical team. That's what I think atleast.

October can't get here soon enough. The mini sounds awesome.

[Dark Traveller]

Why? What's significant about the dates? Do you honestly want a 76 year-old Dr. Strange?

After an encounter with Death and Eternity in 1974, his body hasn't aged a day.
So marvel can let him get as old as they like ( presently 76 yrs of age ) but he'll still only be physically 44!

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Holly shit...from just reading the duologue, in the comic book pages that were provided, it looks totally kick ass...i am so getting it....but since I'm to lazy to read the whole entire article...i know i know.....can someone summarize it in a nutshell for me?

[Soundrave]

Why? What's significant about the dates? Do you honestly want a 76 year-old Dr. Strange?


The dates are significant because if you place his origin after the formation of the Fantastic Four, then you wipe out all of the adventures he had before that, such as appearances in Marvel: The Lost Generation. I believe it was stated in Marvel: The Lost Generation #5 that all of Strange's adventures up until Strange Tales #122 took place in the pre-modern (pre-Fantastic Four) era. He's not a character like Reed Richards or Ben Grimm whose ties to the past need to be retconned in order to keep the character within the parameters of Marvel 13-year sliding timeline.

And what's wrong with a 76-year-old Dr. Strange? Is it harder to believe than an 83-year-old Captain America? How old do you think the Ancient One was?

[Starkicker]

I think Strange's new sidekick is going to be Night Nurse... which is just weird.... :)
The Night Nurse is a very cool concept. While Bendis dug her up and put her into Daredevil she was really just part of the background.
I'd like it if BKV turned her into a real character with personality and motivation.

[Christopher O]

After an encounter with Death and Eternity in 1974, his body hasn't aged a day.
So marvel can let him get as old as they like ( presently 76 yrs of age ) but he'll still only be physically 44!
And what's wrong with a 76-year-old Dr. Strange? Is it harder to believe than an 83-year-old Captain America? How old do you think the Ancient One was?
I was under the impression that Dr. Strange aged the same as everyone else. I don't know all that much about him, which is why I was asking questions, to begin with.

[Dark Traveller]

Thats cool.

[kalorama]

Sounds interesting.

I hope he remembers that Strange was born in 1930 and the car accident was in 1963 -- the Doctor is not one of these "post-Fantastic Four" heroes who are part of Marvel's sliding timeline.


Where/when/how was this established?

[Michael P]

The dates are significant because if you place his origin after the formation of the Fantastic Four, then you wipe out all of the adventures he had before that, such as appearances in Marvel: The Lost Generation.
Marvel: The Lost Generation is pretty far down on the scale of sanctity of continuity.

[MrSuslov]

Hmm, this sounds at least potentially interesting. I'd been "aware" of the good Doctor for a while, and his recent appearances in Ms. Marvel sort of whetted the appetite for a quick view into the man.

Might just have to buy it and learn more about the Sorcerer Supreme. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Pyro]

I've been itching to read more about Dr. Strange. I haven't read any of his books before, though, because I wouldn't know where to start. I've just found all of his guest appearances in other book very intriguing. I'll probably pick up this series. I usually enjoy BKV's work and the art isn't bad. It's not great either, though. We'll see.

[Babylon23]

Marvel.com said that by the end of the series he will be joining a new team..... could it be that my dream is finally fullfilled? Could Dr. Strange be joining the Mighty Avengers?

It could be that Doc is going to give the Defenders one more shot.

Anyway, I love Dr. Strange, but a lot of the creative efforts with him over the past few years have been lacklustre to say the least. I have faith that Vaughan can breathe new life into the character.

[Dark Traveller]

I hope not, I want it to be a more Dr Strange centered team.
The trouble with the Defenders in my mind, was that Strange just seemed to teleport all these heavy hitters around (Hellcat aside) and only just shoot the odd magic bolt himself.
Too much weirdness and not enough magic either.

[Soundrave]

Marvel: The Lost Generation is pretty far down on the scale of sanctity of continuity.

I never knew there was such a scale.

[Iron Fist]

The series looks pretty cool, Dr. Strange is a great character. The Iron Fist guest appearance has got me excited, too.

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

Hey,

I'm going to apologize for the sheer LENGTH of this post - because it's long.
BUT, it's FULL of useful info (I hope).

Basically, I'm one of those Dr Strange fans who gets a bit peeved when writers don't understand that DOC isn't a "sliding timeline" character.

It had been established in may places that he came BEFORE the F.F. and long before Dr. Doom (who, himself predated the F.F.) AND predated Dr. Druid (Droom) who was Marvel's FIRST silver age hero (before the F.F. as well).

In fact, Dr. Druid (Droom) was later shown to be an actual "pre-cursor" for Strange. The Ancient One needed someone to "hold the fort" until Stephen Strange would come to him.


Anyway, I present to you not just my own timeline, but that of a fairly well-researched blogger as well.

Here's HIS timeline (which starts with Strange being born in 1912):

http://thewastebasket.blogspot.com/2005/01/omu-doctor-strange-year-one.html

While this blogger goes to EXTREME depth with his timeline breakdown I don't think that's completely accurate, since this blogger doesn't give enough time for Strange's medical career and such.

Here is my "thesis" (it's long enough) which has Strange being born in 1900, a Surgeon in the 1930's, starting on the path of sorcery in the 1940's and a practicing sorcerer in the 1950's.

Enjoy.

*This is cut and pasted from two posts I made quyite a ways back on the Defenders Message Board.

I have not edited it.

Re: DR STRANGE's age.

He's one of marvel's "immortals".

As a sorcerer , he learned various techniques that slow aging, but he was granted virtual Immortality after he defeated DEATH (or actually, after accepting death) as one of his final trials on the way to his ascention as Sorcerer Supreme (from a mere Master of the Mystic Arts).
Death could come from BATTLE, but he would never age or feel disease.
(Re: 2nd series # 4 - one my all-time favourite issues)

He was shown (using visual clues) to have gone through his origin ordeals in the late 1930's - early 1940's. and set up shop in his Sanctum in the 1940's or 1950's.
*Although Wong seems to have shown up in the 1960's (the text says he appeared seemingly soon after Doc fixed up the place, but the dialogue of the panel shows a '60's influence, so it might have only seemed like a short time to the aloof mystic ).
(re: Issue # 56 of his 2nd series)

He was also shown to be an active sorcerer during the 1940's and 50's.
(re: The Lost Generation maxi-series)

There's an issue of his 2nd series (#68 and/or #69) where he's on a cruise with Dane Whitman (aka Black Knight) and the ship's doctor recognises his name and is amazed that he is the same surgeon that she read of while she was in school, because he would have to be in his 70's.
She would NEVER had believed it was he, if not for the silver in his hair.
He claims he looks as good as he does due to clean living (or somesuch).
(This book was published in the mid 1980's.)

Now, I know that "Marvel-time" states that only 10 years or so have occurred since FF #1, but DOC and the other "immortals" have been kind of exempt from this.

ONE thing makes his age a bit harder to determine now:
At the end of his 3rd series, he regenerated a new, younger body (long hair and no facial hair).
We can only surmise that this body was ALSO granted "immortality" because his SPIRIT is still the same.

ONE great story to note is a Fantastic Four ANNUAL (1998, I believe).
In it, Ben Grimm gets transported accidentaly to a parallel Earth.
One where the timeline happens NATURALLY and NOT "Marvel-time".
So, it was stated that characters had aged or died, since (FF # 1 was in 1961) they had been at the hero game for 30+ years.

In this story, DOC is one of the regulars at an Avengers mansion poker night.
His companions are Wolverine (also fairly immortal due to healing factor) and Thor (godhood).
Doc tells how Bruce Banner had died the night before from a heart-attack while his 70 year old body "Hulked out".

It has been "retconned" that DOC is a lot younger these days (40ish) and that useless revamped mini by JMS really skews him into an even younger demographic.

So..in that long-winded reply, I hope an answer is forthcoming to you.
Doctor Strange is as old as 80 or 90 in "real time", but in "Marvel-time" could be about 50-60ish. (unless you get Roger Stern or John Byrne as the writer. They always defend his "immortal" standing.)

------------ DR STRANGE TIMELINE------------

So we start with him entering college at 17-18 years old
Add 4 years to complete that bringing him to 21-22
Add another 2 years for Masters degree, and another 1 or 2 for Doctorate =25-26

Interning (if done sepearately from Doctorate studies) would add another year.

Now practicing surgeon for ...let's say... 7 years (a mystical number) leads us to about his driving off into a tree at 34.

Physical therapy for a year (less perhaps) to regain movement and dexterity in shattered hands within the 2 or so years searching for cures and "second" opinions from doctors all around the world.
We're at 36 ish.

The decline to alchohol feuled vagrant isn't a quick one either.
It would take a few years to exhaust his wealth in order for him to sink that low.
38 years old now.

The rumor of "...The Ancient One.." is heard by his ears for the first time at that age.
How long does it take for the "slow boat to China" to arrive?
a few months?
Add some more weeks (possibly months) for hitchhiking and mountainclimbing to find the hidden (and possibly non-existant) temple of the (is he real or isn't he?) "mythical" ANCIENT ONE (you can't imagine his temple is on the tourist map, and the locals probaly are wary to point the way (even if they know it) to a foreigner.

So Stephen Strange is probably just about 39 when he enters the Ancient One's presence.
This would account for his near-obsessed, raving manner when he feels he's being given the run-around by the aged mystic.

He has lost SO much time!
He practically states it in the dialogue.

Anyway, he wandered the temple for weeks-months waiting for the snow to melt even before he finally asked to be taught the ways of magic.
So he's CERTAINLY 39 by the time he takes up his lesson books...er...scrolls.

His teachings lasted about 7 years which put him at 46 by the time he heads back to the New World.

That's why I've always thought of his birth year as being about 1900.
It really gives an accurate timeline with his life's events and the years that they were supposed to have happened.
i.e ; doctoring in the 1930's, becoming a sorcerer in the 40's, getting a reputation for same in the 1950's (so that by the time of the 1960's his is a name mentioned only in whisper).

Wong shows up in the '60's, I'm sure.
There's never been any evidence of this not being the time for that occurance.

So that's how I (after long deliberation and logical thought) have figured it to be.

Your milage may vary.


ThanX!

~P~
P-TOR

[Cthulhudrew]

He was also shown to be an active sorcerer during the 1940's and 50's. (re: The Lost Generation maxi-series)

Where did this happen? If you mean Marvel: The Lost Generation, Doc Strange is only shown active during the 60s at the earliest. His first appearance in that title is during an encounter he has with the Black Fox and Pixie when they are tracking down Nocturne to Diablo's castle in eastern Europe, and that issue takes place during the 60s or early 70s, not the 40s or 50s.

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

Where did this happen? If you mean Marvel: The Lost Generation, Doc Strange is only shown active during the 60s at the earliest. His first appearance in that title is during an encounter he has with the Black Fox and Pixie when they are tracking down Nocturne to Diablo's castle in eastern Europe, and that issue takes place during the 60s or early 70s, not the 40s or 50s.

It's a tough arguement to make these days with the whole "sliding timeline", I know.
For every piece of "evidence" or "proof" that is uncovered, a "sliding timeline" mucks it up.

First off, I'll toss in Doctor Strange # 56.
It is only one or two panels, and shows Strange in what appear to be 1940's - 50's garments buying his Sanctum. I mean...a fedora? And that suit.
But that doesn't mean that the time he came to America was the 40's or 50's.
No. Merely the last time that he bought clothes.
(I'd imagine that living and studying in a Tibiten high-mountain lamasary would make trips to a habadasher very few and far between. But seeing as how he would travel the world for his missions on occation, I'd imagine some time during his studies, he bought some nice threads.)

As for the "Lost Generation" maxi, I wasn't SURE WHERE I remembered "seeing" that timeframe, so I just dug out the three issues that I remembered had Dr Strange info in them (# 1, 8 and 12).
There might be more subliminal info in other issues, but I'm only pulling these three for now.

Ah! Here we go...
If you only read what they SAY in their conversation it would give you but ONE clue.

In issue # 8 (which looking by the fashions and dialogue to take place in the late '60's early '70's) Black Fox tells Pixie that he and Strange first met in a Haunted House "longer ago than I care to remember".

Sure, that doesn't give much info in and of itself, but, add that statement (and Fox's long career - which went back to the late 40's early 1950's - according to his statements from being in the "First Line", and) with the info tidbits that are given by Byrne & Stern (in the letter's page of issue # 1 (12 of 12) and # 12 (1 of 12) - yes, the numbering of this thing gives me headaches too- ) .

In issue #1 (12 of 12) it states:
"DOCTOR STRANGE. While not exactly a super hero, the good Doctor has been a practicing sorcerer since LONG before the creation of the Fantastic Four!..."

And in issue # 12 (1 of 12) it adds:
DOCTOR STRANGE. Well, of course Doc predated the Fantastic Four! After all he spent YEARS in Asia, learning his craft at the side of the Ancient One, before returning to America to become a practicing mystic master. In fact, in his very first story... it was revealed that the name of Doctor Strange was "spoken in whispers". You think that kind of notoriety happens overnight?"

This "insiders look" into the character's history lends itself more towards a good "decade-PLUS of Sorcering" before the first story (Strange Tales 110).

Not that it really put any special "date" on anything, but in the Dr. Strange / Dr. Doom : Triumph and Torment graphic novel (again, by Stern) it shows Strange leaving his years of study with the Ancient One and paying his respects to the Aged Ghengis (before embarking back to the U.S.).
He comes across the Gengis who is lying unconscious from his encounter the previous day with a young and pre-armor Victor Von Doom, who has yet to meet up with his band of monks (the ones who forge his armor).
This places the story sometime after Von Doom's college experiment goes awry.
So, it's some time just after the early years of Victor, Reed Richards & Ben Grimm's college careers.

And Strange is LEAVING his years of mystic studies, battles and tenure at the Ancient One's.

This, ON TOP OF his years of Medical School, years of Practice and years of searching for cures.

The sliding timeline makes it SO hard to nail down, but really, it isn't hard to figure that Doc being a functional (perhaps novice) mystic in the 1950's is possible.

As far as I'm concerned, it's why I ignore the sliding scale of "Marvel Time".
At least for DOC and the other "Immortals*".

*No, I know Doc isn't immortal (as far as a fictional character's "real life" is supposed to be. But with his "acceptance and defeat of Death" he wasn't supposed to age. The Ancient One won that battle far later in life, and so was an "Ancient" mystic for about 300 years (iirc).

Anyway, thanks for the excuse to pull some comics from the longboxes.
It's been awhile.

:-)

~P~
P-TOR

[Arilou]

I think Strange is one of those characters you can just handwave aging away as "It's magic."

Seriously, wasn't the Ancient One 500 years old or something?

[Dark Traveller]

First off, I'll toss in Doctor Strange # 56.
It is only one or two panels, and shows Strange in what appear to be 1940's - 50's garments buying his Sanctum. I mean...a fedora? And that suit.
But that doesn't mean that the time he came to America was the 40's or 50's.
No. Merely the last time that he bought clothes.
(I'd imagine that living and studying in a Tibiten high-mountain lamasary would make trips to a habadasher very few and far between. But seeing as how he would travel the world for his missions on occation, I'd imagine some time during his studies, he bought some nice threads.)

P-TOR

Hows this for spooky.
I just reached down into my pile of doctor Strange, and the first one up is issue # 56!

Page 9. That's definitely a forty's or fifty's suit and hat.
Probably a fiftys the more I look at it, the lapels are too narrow for the forty's.
Also note ,the fifty's French style Beatnicks outside his door on page ten, top right.
Even the man on the left is probably a bongos player.
Just waiting for another bored fifty's housewife to run off with him. :D
Plus the estate agent is wearing a bowler or coke which was not very common in the later US sixty's period.

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

Well, I got an email from Marvel today (I'm on their newsletter list - shut up!) and the SPOTLIGHT character this time is, as they put it;
"Physician Peculiar".

Yes, people. Doctor Strange.

And the hyperlink brought me to the Marvel bio for the good Dr.

Here it is, for your betterment.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Doctor_Strange_(Stephen_Strange)

Anyway, the point of my post is to show, that due to their "sliding timeline", they have the birth year of Stephen Strange as 1930.

This of course would make him 76 years old today.
WITH or WITHOUT a "sliding timeline".

Pretty much the age bracket that I was placing him (I was arcing for a 1900 birth year, but my theory doesn't take the "sliding timeline" into the equation - but when I TRIED to factor it in, I came up with an age of the mid to high 70's, so I'm good with it).

What this DOES prove, however, is that there is NO WAY that half of the characters that have been popping up (either toward the end of his own late lamented title or other mini's and guest spots) who claim to have gone to "medical school" with him, or knew him as a pre-sorcerer. It just CAN'T BE.
Not unless they're at least 70 as well.

These are all young-ish people that have been portrayed.

A young single mother (who wondered if he was gay, due to the flamboyance of his dress) at the end of his "Sorcerer Supreme" run claimed to have known him as a young man (one of the FEW transgressions of writer J.M. DeMatteis) as well as the recent "colleague" who showed up in the DEAD GIRL mini.

There's just NO WAY.

Writers seem to fail to understand;

DR. STRANGE (like Captain America) HAS NO contemporaries.

He is a man who time passed by.
Or he passed time by, depending on which end of the stick you wish to wave.

Due to his "immortal" status (after defeating / accepting Death*).

*issue # 4 of his "Master of the Mystic Arts" series, Front Facer.

NOTHING can change that.
(Barring a "crisis" revamp. Dear jebus, NO! Not that.)

The error on the part of MARVEL (if you can call it that since he is THEIR toy to play with -and BREAK- as they choose) is that they set up his schooling, rise of position and prestige and fall to destitution and subsequest rise and advancement of his spirit theu sorcery and meditation as occuring in a scant
decade or so.

However, upon second thought (I whipped out the calculator a moment ago. Hey! I'm an illustrator and freelance writer, MATH is NOT my forte'. Paying my mortgage and balancing my checkbook is mysticism to me)...
Adding in all the info from my previous posts would have him careening off a cliff (or into a tree - depending on which story you read) in 1961.

Now, while this doesn't work in the framework of knowing that his practice of SORCERY PREDATED the F.F., it is ONLY faulty if we go with the dates of PUBLICATION as being the dates of "when things occurred".
However, Marvel's "sliding timeline" wrecks all that and puts the F.F.'s formation near 1990.
Go figure.
(Yes. it makes MY brain hurt too. I mean WHO DID the Torch and Thing MEET if it wasn't the BEATLES? In SYNCH?!? Bleagh! Maybe it was the SPICE GIRLS. I could live with THAT a bit more. What?? Shut UP! BEN GRIMM in a GINGER SPICE wig. What??? So, I LIKED Ginger / Sexy Spice! SO?!?!? Shut UP!!) .

;)

Anyway, my NEW point is that they STILL place his car accident near his publication date.

ADD 7 years of occult study and we're at 1968.
(Hey! I was 1 year old! Who Hoo! Yay for me!)

It doesn't give the length of time I was looking for (in keeping with pub dates), but it MORE THAN makes up for it by making him a sorcerer for OVER 20 YEARS BEFORE the F.F. show up!

Hot Damn!

THAT's a concession that I'm willing to take.

It gives him AMPLE time to become a myth, legend and mysterious figure "who's name is spoken only in whispers".

It also lends credence to the line in the start of Kevin Smith and Joe Quesada's Daredevil run where D.D. states that Doc was a "tall tale" a "bogeyman" that his father used to tell him when he was a child to scare him into being good.

Nice!

I'll take it.

I STILL have issue with Marvel TRYING to be topical by tossing out dated references (and actual DATES themselves) to make their comics seem "fresh", only to say..."Nope. Didn't happen then. Not the Beatles. Maybe The Thing wore a "Backsteet Boys" wig."

Gah!

I'll go back to the "Ginger Spice" thought.
WHAT???


Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.
You might not agree.

(You might also be crazy. I dunno. ARE YOU?)

:-)


~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix
The "SANCTUM-onious" One!

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

I should have known I'd be miserable again.
I just can't believe it's so SOON.

(As a Dr Strange fan, it's a state of being one gets used to, due to all the mishandling of the character.)

At least I was happy during my last post
(but I had been drinking, so...) .

I had a chance to read the ENTIRE bio of Doc on the Marvel site and have to say..."BLEAGH"!

I had hoped that the "8-year old Stephen was beset by demons sent by Karl Mordo" storyline had been ignored.

When turned into a "chosen one" Strange's adventures become very disappointing.

His was a SUPERB tale of REDEMPTION as well as the RISING and ADVANCING of the SPIRIT!

If you're a "Chosen One" then it's no better than being born a mutant.
B-O-R-I-N-G and worthless as a "role model".

I would MUCH rather strive to better myself (a la Strange Tales # 115 origin) then to be handed the key to the Universe.
(Well... maybe I'd accept the key to the Universe. I feel I've strived long enough anyway.)

;-)

We all know that the Ancient One WAS INDEED WAITING for his successor.
I just wish it wasn't "foretold" who that was going to be.

Heck, it COULD have been WILLIE LUMPKIN (delivering a parcel of hookahs to the lamasery in Tibet) who was "worthy".

It feels the same as the THOR retcon.

Originally Don Blake finds the hammer and "he is worthy" to heft it.

Later it was "revealed" that he was ALWAYS THOR but Odin cast him in the Blake persona to "teach him humility".
That's not as bad, however.

At least there was some "striving" going on.
Blake couldn't have wielded Mjolner unless he had indeed "humbled" himself.
Caring for the weak and infirm as a Doctor fit the bill nicely.

But Strange could have been (and WAS) a complete jerk, but since he's a "chosen one" no problem.
Pooh!
He should be UNWORTHY...UNTIL he wishes to SAVE the Ancient One (and the world) from Mordo's evil.

BOOM!

Moment of Zen.

"...I have reached the TRUE Stephen Strange..."

The MARVEL bio got a lot of other stuff all convoluted as well (Medical Degree in record time - I guess I can live with, but just seems convenient. Performing SHADY medical procedures?!?!? WTF??? What were they? Back-Alley "operations"??? When did THAT enter into the mythos?).

ugh

Waaay too much to go into in a post like this.
(I'm almost as long-winded as Stan the Man Himself!)

Oh well, you take the bad with the good.

Sadly, as a Doc fan, you learn to live with disappointment from his "unenlightened" creators (with few exceptions - Ditko, Brunner, Englehart, Colan, Stern, Smith, Golden, Rogers, Gillis and maybe one or two others).

Tamam Shud!

~P~
P-TOR

SanctumSanctorumComix
The "SANCTUM-onious" One!

[drwho]

Okay so likely culprits for the guy in shadow.

Baron Mordo- makes sense, but too obvious
Dr. Druid- resurrected with a hate on for Stephen.

Any other logical suggestions?

[matt levin]

sigh.

ah, well; here's hope, always burning eternal, and all that.

Despite over 30 years 'collecting' comics, heh--or maybe beCAUSE of over 30 years collecting--I've only maintained very few 'complete runs'-- Master of Kung Fu, Tomb of Dracula, and...Dr. Strange (at least, beginning with Strange Tales 178, my earliest).

I totally disregard the son of Strange series, but otherwise...

ah, well: here's hope for the new. I too like the dialogue and depictions of the preview....

sigh.

will I ever learn?

Matt

[pmpknface]

Nice job on the timeline SSC! I read that Marvel bio too. I guess you've gotta take the good with the bad. For more interesting stuff, take a look at the MCP listing for the good Doc:

http://www.chronologyproject.com/d.htm#STRANGE

[Dark Traveller]

I don't think anyone's mentioned the slight costume change.

What does everyone think of it?

[Dark Traveller]

Three more pages on view, scroll down a bit.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8367

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

I personally have NO problem with the clothing change.
I prefer he wear PANTS than tights anyway.
(Or, actually, tights with black BOOTS over them would be my ultimate preference.)

He's been given pants before:

The end of the Sorcerer Supreme run, Buckingham gave him pants with leather "Beatle boots" (ankle height boots) under them.

Sadly, artists that followed, in his latter appearances after the demise of his title thought they were tights and drew them accordingly.
(Joe Mad started that ball rolling in a 2-part X-Men appearance)

As for the long sleeves, no problem.
I prefer his tunic flowy with billowy sleeves and such (because that's usually how a tunic is made), but this shirt doesn't bother me.

The newly tweaked "demon" insignia looks a bit floopy though.

No, overall I have no real problem with the clothing DESIGN.

My beef is more toward the art itself.
Judging from the initial character sketches, it appeared as if Martin was going to portray Strange as looking like Vincent Price.
A move a HIGHLY applauded.

Looks like that didn't happen.
Likeness rights issues?
I dunno.

But, besides that his artwork (at least on the 3 covers I've seen) looks VERY rough and scratchy.
The pants look horrible on covers 2 and 3. Actually, Doc looks to be drawn in a very amateurish manner on cover # 3.
The villains heads look sweet, but Doc himself looks like a bad bendy figure.

Now, I'll note that the interior pages don't look too bad at all!
But, there are only a few pages out there to be seen and they are at the START of the issue.

That's where the strongest stuff is bound to be found.

If there's a downhill slope... it'll be what comes AFTER that I'm worried about.

As for the STORY, well... judging JUST what I've read from Vaughan's interviews and the 2page spread in the last WIZARD (yes, I read that rag. Lord only knows WHY. I'm trying to quit it.) I don't hold out much hope.

Vaughan stated that he sees Doc as being a hero who would rather be a Doctor. And who tells Wong; "Oh, shut up with that Zen crap."

Mistake.

I would think that "doctoring" to a sick Dimension would be right up the dark and shadowy alley of the "ambitious westerner" the ancient one picked to be his apprentice. I believe THAT was why a navel gazer wasn't chosen.

Ahhh... and all those years of attaining a higher understanding must have fallen by the wayside as well.

My ultimate "geek-fest" moment for Doc's attitude was waaaaay back in an Englehart / Brunner issue of Marvel Premier, after he has killed the Ancient One, and he'd been in the desert meditating. Wong and Clea show up and Doc holds a lizard in his hand and gives THIS little monologue:

(I have it photocopied and hung in my studio / office - it's THAT good)
*Typed as it was printed. All emphasized words are by Englehart*

"Life -- The OPPOSITE of life is not DEATH, but NON-EXISTENCE. To DIE means HAVING LIVED -- But to NOT EXIST means being...NOTHING!

"To LIVE means to INFLUENCE THE COSMOS! One's actions-- one's PRESENCE-- changes every being he meets!

"The COSMOS is EVERYTHING! To affect any PART of the cosmos is to affect the TOTALITY!

"LIFE is the most precious gift the cosmos can BESTOW...
...and it is the lot of DR. STRANGE to PRESERVE the gift.

"This lizard means EVERYTHING to me, just as ALL living things do! This lizard is SACRED in it's existence!

"For a few seconds, I held the life of a SACRED BEING in my hands.
What an AWESOME responsibility."


THAT. IS. DOCTOR. STRANGE!

Tell me the guy who would say THAT would say "Quit the zen crap".

I smell trouble for this mini.
But, as a Doc fan. I'll buy the ticket and take the ride.

Anyway, that's MY 2cents.
(actually, $2.99 an issue x 5... that's my $14.95*)

* I won't mention that I've ordered 3 copies of each issue, AND pre-bought 2 "variants" AND will buy the Trade AND HC if one is made... JUST because it is a Doc series.
I'm serious about supporting a Doc series that way.

I'd just like to spend ALL that crazy cash and like the end product.


~P~
P-TOR

[pmpknface]

Hey P-TOR:

So, so you chase down ALL of the Doc's apps, or just his core titles? Got 'em all yet? I'm just a few early ST issues away, myself. :D

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

ALL.

I may be missing a Marvel Tales back-up reprint or two.

Maybe.

Besides the comics, I hunt for ANYTHING that he's in, on or about.

I have a room in my house JUST for my collection and most of my collection is DOC.
(I've ben collecting for a loong time. Comics bit me pretty hard as a kid. And even though, when I was a teenager, I sold off my collection, I ended up buying it all back several years later. All - and a whole lot more.)

The long boxes (over 40 of them - although I'll be selling off most of the non-Doc stuff, and Doc duplicates soon enough) are on one side of the room and the center of the room has display cases full of statues, action figures, toys, assorted weirdness and rare stuff.
Oh. And plenty of my homemade customs (from several years back when I had TIME to do them).

There's also an excellent clock-table and chairs in the middle for reading and hang-out purposes.

The other side of the room is TPB's, HC's, magazines, foreign prints, and other assorted media (video games - which Doc was in several), movies, animated series' he's appeared in, LP records & CD's which feature songs about him (or he's mentioned) or on the cover artwork, CDRom games and comics and other stuff.

Not EVERYTHING is of Doc though.
However, as my wife puts in the fun little 'dig'; "It's 6-degrees of separation to Doc".
If he's associated with it in SOME way, I'll probably have it.

- Defenders related stuff; Namor, Hulk and Surfer items...
- Midnight Sons stuff; Ghost Rider figures, Blade stuff...
- Scarlet Witch statues and figures...

Plus MAN-THING (who is my # 2 fave) items.
(It was actually Man-Thing that 'introduced' me to Dr Strange. Until that point, Manny was my # 1)

Add onto that other assorted things;
Marvel promotional items, Marvel World playset, Defenders vehicles, Doc toy truck, the Mego Jordache "doll" that was made out of the Dr Strange prototype (for when his TV pilot was released)...
ugh...
too much stuff.

And POSTERS (rare and old ones as well as most of the recent ones too).

Oh! And ROM: Spaceknight. Can't leave out ROM.

Really, I've maybe mentioned half of the catagories and only a small percentage of the actual items.
It's freakin' scary.

There are some DC (and indie items as well), but all sort of leading to Doc in some roundabout way.
(Dr. Fate, and other mystic characters, plus versions of Fate, Aquaman & Amazo from the JLA cartoon - where it was an homage to the Defenders. I just have to wait for a cheap Grundy.)

Geez. I better make out a will, or a detailed plan for how my family & friends can unload it all after I've kicked.
I'm 39, so hopefully that's a long way off.

;)

The room is jammed and I'm still working on setting it up.

(Sadly, other, REAL housework, takes a priority ie: plumbing, new bathroom fixtures, repainting, etc... That and the paying gig. That's important too!)



But, I'm heading out to the comic shoppe next week to pick up more longboxes so I can get crackin' with all the comics I haven't had time to file (over two years' worth).
That'll help get the ball back in the court.

Then, all I'll need to get is a fancy-schmancy Globe-shaped bar for my booze and that room will be AWESOME!

:cool:

~P~
P-TOR

p.s.: Oh! And if you think I'M wacked out, I have a buddy on the West Coast who's Doc collection is probably just as big as MY Doc collection...if not BIGGER.
While I may have multiple copies of books and other character eclectica, he dives into the realm of buying ORIGINAL ART.
I don't usually go there.
Anyway, his collection is FAMOUS!
He has had it on display at various shows and arenas.
PLUS, he's made CUSTOM COVERS for ALL the Strange Tales issues.

THAT is a fan.
WrongDimensionBoy ... take a bow!
He's had the time to catalogue most of his collection.
Go check him out:
http://www.bigimportantstuff.com/

[Dark Traveller]

I personally have NO problem with the clothing change.
I prefer he wear PANTS than tights anyway.
(Or, actually, tights with black BOOTS over them would be my ultimate preference.)

As for the long sleeves, no problem.
I prefer his tunic flowy with billowy sleeves and such (because that's usually how a tunic is made), but this shirt doesn't bother me.

The newly tweaked "demon" insignia looks a bit floopy though.

No, overall I have no real problem with the clothing DESIGN.

~P~
P-TOR

I think I prefer the trouser pants myself.
I think the tights are a bit too super heroish.
During the early 1990s he actually had his tunic tucked into them. Which gave him a swashbucking Zorro type look.

If you look at Dr Strange's first appearance you'll see his sleeves aren't all that full in the beginning.
The billowy look comes later.
This look can be used more expressively, but as a costume design I don't like it as much.
If nothing else it creates a stronger contrast between the top and the bottom.
"Hey look I'm wearing tights!" or even worse, a slight Donald duck effect. Where it would look, (if not for the difference in color) like hes not wearing a bottom half at all.

As Buckingham's look was more in the nature of the mid-ninety's loose untucked shirt style.
The new look is vaguely in keeping with the present mens fashion in slim line suits.

Not sure about the new "demon" insignia myself.
But then I never have been quite sure about all the previous ones either.
The first one might have been the best. But it also looked the most evil, which doesn't make sense for Strange to be having it on his chest.
The sharp elbows started rounding out in Strange Tales #117. which gave it a slightly friendlier appearance, but it also made it less dramatic.

As far as I know, none of the insignia versions actually mean anything.
And a magician, of all people to be wearing a symbol on his person, this symbol should have both significance and meaning.
I read somewhere that it has something to do with the Vishanti.
If so, it should be triple faced in nature.
Which Dr Strange's insignia clearly isn't.

[DDM]

Hows this for spooky.
I just reached down into my pile of doctor Strange, and the first one up is issue # 56!



It's synchonicity.

[Dark Traveller]

.......But, besides that his artwork (at least on the 3 covers I've seen) looks VERY rough and scratchy.
The pants look horrible on covers 2 and 3. Actually, Doc looks to be drawn in a very amateurish manner on cover # 3.
The villains heads look sweet, but Doc himself looks like a bad bendy figure.

~P~
P-TOR

Yeah, I've just looked at them.

It's weird. After sending his time on designing a new look, it seems odd that he should present it so badly on two front covers.

Number #3 is indeed the worst.

Number #2 also has a big problem.
Strange is presented front and centre but the eye is drawn to the figures behind him.
Who's that mysterous man in shadow on the left?
Is it Ironfist?
No in fact it's just Wong, Strange's trusted man servant.
(no insult intended Wong :D )

[Frank]

Reading the article, it makes me want to see a team of paranormal investigator super-heroes badly. Guys like Strange, Night Nurse, Son of Satan and so forth. Drawn by Alex Maleev.

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

I had pulled together a story synopsis quite a few years ago, (late 1980's) to pitch to Marvel for just such a storyline, but immediately dismissed it.

Doc shouldn't be a full-time Paranormal investigator.
That's far to "street level" foir a character of his power and placement in the cosmic mystic chain.

I DID theorize that the OCCASIONAL paranormal case should present itself.
This type of story can be used as a "cleanser" between big, far more reaching arcs.

Ghostbusters is one of my favorite movies.
LOVE it to pieces.
But Peter Venkman (or even Egon Spengler) is hardly a top-level ... anything.

Having Doc be a "Ghostbuster" is like cooking weenies with a proton pack.
Fun, sure. But a waste of firepower.
But if it's the new direction, DOC won't need to BE the Sorcerer Supreme.
And THAT just sux.


~P~
P-TOR

[pmpknface]

That's a pretty sick collection man. Any pics out there? I think I know of your West Coast Doc buddy. There were a few write-ups of him a couple of months back.

I've got a few of mine on my site, but they are about a year old. It's amazing how much a collection grows in a year. And I don't even have any of my Bowen busts/statues in those pics. And I'm going to the framers to get some stuff framed today too.

I need a bigger place... :p

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

No pics yet.

Not until it's complete.

THEN, look for it on Neilalien's site.

I'll be sure to announce it when the time comes.

It IS amazing how fast crap piles up though.
ESPECIALLY when actively HUNTING for it.

;-)

~P~
P-TOR

[pmpknface]

Ok. I'm a NielalieN regular, so I'm sure I'll see it one way or another.

I really have to get new pics of my comic room. Last December I replaced crappy milk crates w/ nice wooden ones and I've got this sweet library deal going on w/ a bunch of Marvel titles. :)

[Donald]

It has been "retconned" that DOC is a lot younger these days (40ish) and that useless revamped mini by JMS really skews him into an even younger demographic.



That series was a horrible bunch of nothing. Any know if it's going to have any bearing on the new series or will it be rightfully forgotten? Thanks

[Sorcerer Supreme]

The new series looks like it is going to be torally AWESOME!!!

!Strange is back!

[pmpknface]

I have a feeling that since it was sooooooooo well recieved [/sarcasm] it'll be, thankfully, forgotten.

;)

[SanctumSanctorumComix]

The ONLY good thing to come out of the STRANGE mini (besides a couple of cool covers) was ONLY shown in the TPB.

(yes. I bought MULTIPLE copies of each issue and even though it sucks MONSTROUS @$$, I STILL ponied up the bones for the TPB.
I support ANYthing DOC. It's just how I roll.)

Anyway, there's a little *extra* 2-page feature at the end of it where they print Quesada's concept sketches and ideas on stuff for the book.

THOSE ideas and sketches were REALLY good!

But, it seems that JMS & Peterson ignored much of those bits of advice and went their own way.

I understand that it's kinda hard for the ARTIST to do any more than SHOW what's there. It's up to the writer to flesh it out or have some exposition or explaination of what you're seeing.

This was pretty much the case.
Not that Peterson is innocent. He ignored some good points too.

Some thoughts were of how Doc should LOOK and BEHAVE and such.
PLUS the secret workings of the "NEW" Eye of Agamotto.

Really good, I thought.
(And I'm not an easy Doc fan to please)

Oh! Pumpkinface, I checked out your pic of your room.
Cool!
I never would have thought of using milkcrates like that.

I'd love to see the NEW version.

Sadly, I have waay too many comics that it wouldn't be an option (around 40 longboxes).
I'm a slave to the longbox. For now, anyway.

~P~
P-TOR

[pmpknface]

I didn't know that about the STRANGE tpb. I'll have to flip through it in the store.

Thanks P-TOR! Milk crates are great because you can get them for NOTHING and then you don't have to move around boxes to look into them or put new books away. That's my "Marvel Universe Library" where most of the titles that aren't yet too big (Avengers, Cap, mini's, Black Panther, etc...) reside.

Yeah, if you scroll around the room I've got stacks of long boxes too. Somewhere around 20-30 I think. One with nothing but signed books too! :)

I just got a Village Photo account, so I'll be putting pics up and I'll be sure to post here after they are up.

[Dark Traveller]

Not sure about the new "demon" insignia myself.
But then I never have been quite sure about all the previous ones either.
The first one might have been the best. But it also looked the most evil, which doesn't make sense for Strange to be having it on his chest.
The sharp elbows started rounding out in Strange Tales #117. which gave it a slightly friendlier appearance, but it also made it less dramatic.

As far as I know, none of the insignia versions actually mean anything.
And a magician, of all people to be wearing a symbol on his person, this symbol should have both significance and meaning.
I read somewhere that it has something to do with the Vishanti.
If so, it should be triple faced in nature.
Which Dr Strange's insignia clearly isn't.

I've designed a new insignia for Doctor Strange (see my avatar) which incorporates the triple nature of the Vishanti.

What do you think?

See the three faces?

It's not intended for Strange to wear it in black and white.
It was just easier for me to draw and show it that way.

[LordKaos]

"That handsome devil is Doctor Strange. And unless we wrong quickly, he going to be a handsome angel."

Strange doesn't talk like that.