Lex Luthor II

[Kara Zor El]

When Lex Luthor got cancer and has his brain put into a clone body of himself but a t a younger stage and with long red hair and a beard and Austrailian accent he became a slightly different character. There was the whole Team Luthor thing were he went out with Supergirl in a battle suit.
Did anyone prefer this Luthor to the old? Where you upset when he lost his hair again and aged due to the clone plague? He also appeard as this Luthor in the Animated Comic Annual. The one with Batman and Superman together. He crushed Bruce's hand in a hand shake and Batman crushed his later.
He was also learning martial arts and was very sporty as I remember.
And he lasted quite a long time as Luthor II.
I liked it. I liked that he was one up on Superman but Superman still distrusted him. It gave him that bit more power and he reminded me of Richard Branson.
Anyway what did you lot think of this phase in Luthor's life?

[brundlefly]

I thoroughly enjoyed the "Lex I masquerades as Lex II" storyline, since it demonstrated his duplicity and resourcefulness and made him a subtler villain as opposed to the evil capitalist caricature he had become (obese bald industialist pounding on his desk and yelling at underlings). I liked his exchanges with Superman and other supporting cast members that featured him laughing wickedly on the inside while appearing earnest and helpful on the outside. My favorite scene from that time period was his gloating over Superman's coffin (I'm paraphrasing here): "Gotcha. You never figured out that it was me. Now you're dead and buried and Metropolis is mine again." A lot of people complained that his hair at the time looked silly and Kenny G-ish, but I loved the bit where his new body is being grown in the cloning tank and he remarks, "Make sure this one has hair." It would make sense that someone self-conscious about his baldness would choose to have long flowing hair to overcompensate for his previously bald head and was an amusing nod to his vanity. There was a great conclusion of that era too, when Superman played to Lex's image of himself as Metropolis' savior and benefactor, telling him that people would think of him as another Hitler if he used his doomsday weapons on the city, and Lex saw his point and couldn't do it (althought Happerson then jumped in and pushed the button). That's what makes the recent storyline of Lex stomping all over the city in a Kryptonian warship like Godzilla so ridiculous by comparison.

[Kara Zor El]

I'm totally with you. I loved that bit by the coffin too. And all the vanity stuff and how he was really bothered by his hair startting to fall out.
And of course poor Supergirl being taken for a ride by him in both ways. And how that bothered Superman too. It seemed like he actually cared for her at times but of course he didn't. She was a trophy, an asset and a solution to his dieing.

[David Atkins]

Lex Luthor II was awesome. And yes, I was very disappointed when they did away with that characterization.

Not only was the scene by the coffin ("Gotcha!") a great one, but I also enjoyed him beating Doomsday's body with a wooden chair shortly following Superman's death. Turpin assumed that Lex was angry over what had happened, that Superman was dead, which was, of course, true but not in the way that he thought.

[brundlefly]

"He was mine to kill! MINE!" Yeah, that was a great scene, particularly since earlier Lex had dismissed the Doomsday rampage with "Oh, Superman will put a stop to this just like he always does." He hadn't considered that he would lose his greatest enemy that day, along with his chances for one day destroying him. Another great line from the coffin scene was "I didn't get to kill you, but by God I'll be the one to bury you" since LexCorp was sponsoring the whole Superman funeral and selling memorial-themed merchandise, so he got to profit from Superman's death at the least.

Speaking of the baldness/vanity issue, I recall a funny bit during Underworld Unleashed where a withered Lex strikes a deal with Neron in exchange for the restoration of his youth and health. A newly robust Lex then thinks, "If I thought that was actually going to work, I would have held out for hair."

[Kara Zor El]

"If I thought that was actually going to work, I would have held out for hair."

You've got me chuckling on that one all over again!:)

The bit with the chair was classic Lord Fireface. It was kinda unexpected but then once he'd done it you imedietly understood it.

How dare a mindless thug of a monster steel his greatest ambition.

One of the Bloodlines annuals was good with Lex II killing his martial arts trainer just for putting him on his ass during training. She got spine sucked even though she was dead and came after Lex later.

[David Atkins]

The bit with the chair was classic Lord Fireface. It was kinda unexpected but then once he'd done it you imedietly understood it.

How dare a mindless thug of a monster steel his greatest ambition.

One of the Bloodlines annuals was good with Lex II killing his martial arts trainer just for putting him on his ass during training. She got spine sucked even though she was dead and came after Lex later.

Right on, that scene-- and the other, with the coffin-- really nailed Luthor as a character for me.

Are you sure that happened in Bloodlines? If so, he made a habbit out of it. I recall the same thing happening during the 'Funeral For A Friend' arc. You see Luthor standing there bare-chested, in a fighting stance, saying 'Do it.' The caption reads as follows;

"Hate. Some say it is a waste of energy; a useless emotion that keeps one from achieving one's ultimate potential. But for Lex Luthor-- a man whose accomplisments surpass the wildest dreams of most men-- hate is everything."

It follows with him daydreaming as he fought, with the images of him fighting his trainers mixed up with scenes of himself before he became Luthor II, and his rivalry with Superman. He wound up on the recieving end of a drop-kick to the jaw, and was uber-pissed until the scene was interrupted by the arrival of Supergirl and Lois Lane (whom was carrying with her evidence of Project Cadmus' theft of Superman's body).

Luthor later strangled the trainer who kicked him, Sasha, in the women's locker room. He even gloated about that during the coffin scene.

"That's why I killed her, you know. That Sasha witch. I throttled the life from her with my bare hands just to prove to you that I am King again."

:) All this talk of Luthor II and those scenes made me dig out my collection. I love this stuff.

[brundlefly]

You are correct, Fireface; Lex throttled his trainer in Funeral for a Friend. I'm hazy on the Bloodlines thing, though, so maybe that's where Sasha got resurrected and sought revenge. FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND, THEY SAVED LUTHOR'S BRAIN (gotta love that title), and BIZARRO'S WORLD are all great TPBs from the Lex II time period that give him a lot of screen time. Do either of you know if they collected the "Fall of Lex II" (for lack of an official title) endgame to that whole era, which culminated with Lex vowing revenge via internal monologue while trapped in a paralyzed degenerate clone body?

[Kara Zor El]

Yeah sorry been awhile. It did happen in Funeral for a Friend her body was thrown into a pile of other bodies I think and then in Bloodlines one of the aliens discovered her and did the deed. She then could mimic whoever she touched, absorbing their memories and skills. But they showed a flashback of the training workout and Lex murdering Sasha in the annual.

[Kara Zor El]

Yeah sorry been awhile. It did happen in Funeral for a Friend her body was thrown into a pile of other bodies I think and then in Bloodlines one of the aliens discovered her and did the deed. She then could mimic whoever she touched, absorbing their memories and skills. But they showed a flashback of the training workout and Lex murdering Sasha in the annual.

[J. Robb]

I also thought "Lex Jr." was a great storyline, but I knew he'd go back to the old look eventually. As I've said elsewhere, that era of the late 80s/early 90s is my all-time favourite for Superman comics.

[David Atkins]

Yeah sorry been awhile. It did happen in Funeral for a Friend her body was thrown into a pile of other bodies I think and then in Bloodlines one of the aliens discovered her and did the deed. She then could mimic whoever she touched, absorbing their memories and skills. But they showed a flashback of the training workout and Lex murdering Sasha in the annual.

Wow... I'm gonna have to look that one up. *lol* I rather enjoyed the Bloodlines issue (the one featuring Superboy) that I was actually able to get my hands on at the time. I remember that issue debuted Sparx, whom I really rather liked and wanted to see more of in the comics.

[marshal99]

Sparx was a regular in the superboy and the ravers series.

[David Atkins]

No kidding? I'll have to check that out too! There's a lot of stuff I missed, due to a lack of availability where I was living at the time. :mad:

Thanks!

[Kara Zor El]

Wow... I'm gonna have to look that one up. *lol* I rather enjoyed the Bloodlines issue (the one featuring Superboy) that I was actually able to get my hands on at the time. I remember that issue debuted Sparx, whom I really rather liked and wanted to see more of in the comics.
Sasha was different to all the other Bloodlines victims who became Metas, because she was already dead when one of them sucked her blood.

[jaguarshark]

I loved Lex II. Just the sheer ridiculousness of Lex Luthor reincarnated with a flowing red mane, taking karate lessons, dating Supergirl and calling people drongos was enough to thoroughly entertain me. My favourite thing about Lex II was definitely the dialogue... it was often that 'Crocodile Dundee' sort of lingo, which as an actual Australian, I loved. Of course, I was a little kid at the time, so it didn't take much.

[brundlefly]

I loved Lex II. Just the sheer ridiculousness of Lex Luthor reincarnated with a flowing red mane, taking karate lessons, dating Supergirl and calling people drongos was enough to thoroughly entertain me. My favourite thing about Lex II was definitely the dialogue... it was often that 'Crocodile Dundee' sort of lingo, which as an actual Australian, I loved. Of course, I was a little kid at the time, so it didn't take much.

I forgot about him using the Australian dialect speech tapes so that he'd sound more authentic in public, calling everbody "mate" and whatnot. That helped to polarize his benevolent, helpful public persona of "Sure, Superman, what can I do to help?" with his private Machavellian persona of "Any progress on synthesizing that Kryptonite, Happerson?" I assumed at the time that his Australian slang was probably the equivalent of Gambit's stereotypical Cajun dialect in the X-Men, so thanks for confirming that.

[lalalei2001]

I only have 2 issues with red-haired Lex, so can someone please tell me about his relationship with Supergirl?

[Kara Zor El]

I only have 2 issues with red-haired Lex, so can someone please tell me about his relationship with Supergirl?
When Matrix/Supergirl appeard on Earth as the only survivor of the Pocket Universe, she met Lex Luthor II who reminded her of the Lex Luthor of the pocket universe, who created her. He played on this and they quickly became an item. She genuinly fell in love with him and she couldn't see any of his badness. He hid it well from her and just about everyone else. Luthor used and exploited her in his promotions and publicity. He set up Team Luthor with her as a top member. He got her to use her shape changing abillities even though it really hurt her to trap enemies. He ended up cloning thousands of her in a bid to cure his plague disease. In the end she discovered this and was going to clean his clock until she saw how delibertated and bauld he was looking at that point. So ended there affair.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I loved Lex II. It only seemed logical that he went from a stereotypical Reagan-era corporate shark to a beloved '90s-style Richard Bransen billionaire. It was immensely enjoyable watching Lex Luthor with a second chance at life. With his restored youth and new identity, he set out to bag Supergirl, start Team Luthor, and basically stear clear of the mistakes he made the first time around.

I dislike how today's comics seem to always gloss over this period. Heck, even the recent flashbacks showing him being behind the cloning of Superboy portrayed him as the traditional bald Luthor.

[brundlefly]

I loved Lex II. It only seemed logical that he went from a stereotypical Reagan-era corporate shark to a beloved '90s-style Richard Bransen billionaire. It was immensely enjoyable watching Lex Luthor with a second chance at life. With his restored youth and new identity, he set out to bag Supergirl, start Team Luthor, and basically stear clear of the mistakes he made the first time around.

I dislike how today's comics seem to always gloss over this period. Heck, even the recent flashbacks showing him being behind the cloning of Superboy portrayed him as the traditional bald Luthor.

Which flashback are you referring to? The Teen Titans annual had him reflecting on Superboy's creation at Cadmus and (thankfully) showed him with the long red hair of the Lex II era. Was there another similar flashback that showed him as the bald Lex instead?

I'm with you on the hate for the attempts to retroactively 'do away' with that era. That's why the "Matrix Supergirl never existed" decree bugs me, since it's not that far a leap from that to "and, logically, if she never existed, then that time period itself can't exist or be referenced, since how can Lex II have had a relationship with someone who never existed?" Luckily Doomsday and the Death of Supes happened during the Lex II era and I can't see that story being retroactively erased, but with all this "New Earth" business post-IC, I suppose DC writers & editors can cherry-pick which stories they want to 'keep' and which they want to ignore and pretend never happened.

And, yeah, Branson was always who I thought of as the template for Lex II's public persona. The always grinning and waving 'adventurer' billionaire (Lex strapping on Team Luthor armor and going into the field to defend Metropolis alongside Supergirl & his LexCorp employees as opposed to Branson's mountain climbing and hot air balloon antics). He got to totally manufacture from scratch the persona he always wanted Metropolis' citzens to see him as (charismatic, handsome benefactor/champion of the people), unencumbered by all the troublesome scandals and allegations and had plagued him as Lex I. Truly a second chance at life; a squeaky-clean public image to display to the citizens of 'his' city and meanwhile free to plot Superman's demise (along with his other Machiavellian schemes), unsuspected by any nosy Daily Planet reporters. No wonder he got a little unstable (heh, to say the least) when the clone degeneration threatened to take all that away from him.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Which flashback are you referring to? The Teen Titans annual had him reflecting on Superboy's creation at Cadmus and (thankfully) showed him with the long red hair of the Lex II era. Was there another similar flashback that showed him as the bald Lex instead?

It was a regular issue of Teen Titans, after the Insiders story, where Raven showed up at the Kent Farm to prove to Superboy that he had a soul. She took him back to when he was still in a tube at Cadmus, and sure enough bald-headed Lex was there.

I never picked up the annual, so I'm glad to see they didn't disregard Lex II there.

[Kara Zor El]

It was a regular issue of Teen Titans, after the Insiders story, where Raven showed up at the Kent Farm to prove to Superboy that he had a soul. She took him back to when he was still in a tube at Cadmus, and sure enough bald-headed Lex was there.

I never picked up the annual, so I'm glad to see they didn't disregard Lex II there.

Hmmm... It does seem that they are not sure if Lex II existed or not. I hope he did. I can't see the point in eleminating him.

[brundlefly]

Hmmm... It does seem that they are not sure if Lex II existed or not. I hope he did. I can't see the point in eleminating him.


That sounds more like an artist's mistake than an intentional whitewash of the Lex II era, since Johns wrote both the Titans annual (flashback with red hair) and the regular Titans issue SBF refers to (flashback without red hair). If there was a writer's specific intent to do away with that period, Lex should be bald in both flashbacks. If anything, we'll just never see any references to that era anymore in the Superman books, since that takes much less effort. The same way the Superman books themselves haven't declared "Matrix Supergirl never existed!" post-IC even though DC has stated this outside the books.

Frankly, I'll just be happy to get machiavellian LexCorp CEO Luthor back eventually in the current Superman titles. Not a fan of the 'jailbird mad scientist out to destroy Metropolis with death rays and giant robots' version of the character. Particularly irritating given the great LL: MAN OF STEEL mini from Lex's POV; instead of building off that, they pointlessly reboot the character because Loeb or Johns or whomever has a wistful longing for his one-dimensional Silver Age persona. Next he'll be blaming Superman for losing his hair. :rolleyes: There are plenty of DC characters who can fill the fugitive mad scientist role (heck, Doc Sivana is even bald, too); no reason for Lex to needlessly fill those same shoes. I figure as long as LexCorp still exists in the Supes books (which it appears that it will), that's the back door for a different writer to bring Lex back to the Lextower penthouse from whatever sewer hideout he's currently holed up in.