Decompression in the MU?

[Subotai]

Can someone explain the concept of 'decompression' to me, and why it seems to be causing a bit of a fuss? Preferably in the context of Marvel comics, since I am a generally a Marvel comics fan. It's new on me. Thanks!

[Expletive Deleted]

It's a slower style of storytelling. Done well, it allows for greater, richer characterization and gives the story room to breathe. Done poorly, it pads out a storyline past what some would consider its natural length.

Bendis has been the poster boy for both of these, at various points in his Marvel career.

[Kirk G]

Can someone explain the concept of 'decompression' to me, and why it seems to be causing a bit of a fuss? Preferably in the context of Marvel comics, since I am a generally a Marvel comics fan. It's new on me. Thanks!
It's not hard.

In the early days, you bought a Marvel Comic (or DC or any other for that matter) and it contained a complete story. In fact, it may have had several COMPLETE stories in each issue.

Then, after a few years of success, Stan Lee began doing continued stories, longer form stories that continued the continuity from issue to issue. These broad stories include the Fantastic Four struggling with the original Frightful Four, Doctor Doom, the Skrulls, etc while loosing and regaining their powers.
Over in Thor, the trial of the Gods pit Thor and Loki together after a long arc where Loki had cheated with the Norn Stones, and Thor had to gather the evidence.
After about a year or two of this, some fans were complaining that if you missed an issue, you lost the thread of the story. (remember, this is long before comic shops, internet, ebay, or even plubished fanzines or newspapers.)
There after, except for the occassional long form story arc (like Kree-Skrull War in Avengers or X-men saga in the Savage Land) most stories were one shot or two parters. Major cross-overs were rare, but a treat when they happened.

Now, flash forward to today.
The complaint is that to buy a complete story, the fan must buy at least six consecutive issues, and that any one issue doesn't advance the story sufficiently far enough that it justifies the $3 price. One issue is never complete in and of itself.

Decompressed stories is a term that suggests that the writer has spread out the action and critical developments of plot so thin, that the content that once fit in a single issue, or two at most, is spread thin over six or so, forcing the fan to shell out almost $20 to get what was once 12 cents or a quarter.

Some say this is a natural evolution of the industry, and others claim that it is an artist's choice to paint in broader strokes. But long term comic fans feel that certain writers, like Bendis for one, have perfected this planed spread to maximize their pay for the thinnest of product. With stories being written for eventual inclusion into trade paper backs that run 6 issues or ten, it's basically elevating the price of a single comic to almost $20, but then breaking them down into monthly installments when the original story was intended for a trade collection.:eek:

Can anyone else give any more clear examples?

[Steffen]

Nothing really to add, except to say that Kirk G gave a great explanantion.

[david r]

Trade paperback are too fault for "decompression", I've been reading Marvel Comics since 1978, and they were always jam packed with story and plot development.

This whole "decompression" problem began when Marvel instituted their new trade paperback policy. Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas revitalized the tpb line, but at a price. It has created the very situation that Kirk G described so well. We pay over $3.00 (with tax) for one comic, and are not getting our money's worth. The individual stories are tailored to fit the trade paperback. The monthly comics suffer as a result.

Geoff Johns admitted that Marvel told him to write this way on his Avengers tenure. It is pretty obvious this is their policy now, and it has driven me away from them.

[Subotai]

Thanks, guys. You're the best.

[Captain Exaggeration]

It's not hard.

In the early days, you bought a Marvel Comic (or DC or any other for that matter) and it contained a complete story. In fact, it may have had several COMPLETE stories in each issue.

Then, after a few years of success, Stan Lee began doing continued stories, longer form stories that continued the continuity from issue to issue. These broad stories include the Fantastic Four struggling with the original Frightful Four, Doctor Doom, the Skrulls, etc while loosing and regaining their powers.
Over in Thor, the trial of the Gods pit Thor and Loki together after a long arc where Loki had cheated with the Norn Stones, and Thor had to gather the evidence.
After about a year or two of this, some fans were complaining that if you missed an issue, you lost the thread of the story. (remember, this is long before comic shops, internet, ebay, or even plubished fanzines or newspapers.)
There after, except for the occassional long form story arc (like Kree-Skrull War in Avengers or X-men saga in the Savage Land) most stories were one shot or two parters. Major cross-overs were rare, but a treat when they happened.

Now, flash forward to today.
The complaint is that to buy a complete story, the fan must buy at least six consecutive issues, and that any one issue doesn't advance the story sufficiently far enough that it justifies the $3 price. One issue is never complete in and of itself.

Decompressed stories is a term that suggests that the writer has spread out the action and critical developments of plot so thin, that the content that once fit in a single issue, or two at most, is spread thin over six or so, forcing the fan to shell out almost $20 to get what was once 12 cents or a quarter.

Some say this is a natural evolution of the industry, and others claim that it is an artist's choice to paint in broader strokes. But long term comic fans feel that certain writers, like Bendis for one, have perfected this planed spread to maximize their pay for the thinnest of product. With stories being written for eventual inclusion into trade paper backs that run 6 issues or ten, it's basically elevating the price of a single comic to almost $20, but then breaking them down into monthly installments when the original story was intended for a trade collection.:eek:

Can anyone else give any more clear examples?
That was very informative. Thank you. :D

[Lord S]

Yeah Kirk G is right on the money.

I quit collecting comics in 2000, but started again in 2004...and I noticed a HUGE difference in just those four years. I would buy a book, and it would almost seem like the issue was over before it even began, and nothing happened. I first took notice of this in 'Secret War' #3, (written by Bendis), and when the splash page came up I was just shocked to see a 'To Be Continued' at the bottom, when I thought I was still only at the half-way point of the issue. I was like 'WTF, that's it?' #4 didn't do any better...hell, both #s 3 and 4 could have been one issue.

[dingo]

Just to play devils advocate, there is nothing inherently wrong with a six issue arc. The problem is when each individual issue does not progress the story. It requires an editor in the "editor of a novel" sense, which is to say somebody with a red pen and an urge to use it.

[curefreak]

it may increase the bottom line but at the cost to integrating newer fans who dont know or understand about decompression and will feel gipped and never read a comic again.

[Shellhead]

If Marvel doubles the current rate of decompression (in other words, 12 issues to tell a story instead of 6), Bendis will be able to write twice as many titles. Bendis books sell well, so this step is inevitable.

[Ryan Day]

it may increase the bottom line

How would it do that? Marvel is still paying the writer, artist, colourist, letterer, etc. for each individual issue, regardless of how much plot or action it contains.

[Torchbot]

Just to play devils advocate, there is nothing inherently wrong with a six issue arc. The problem is when each individual issue does not progress the story. It requires an editor in the "editor of a novel" sense, which is to say somebody with a red pen and an urge to use it.

I agree. I think story arcs are a good way to tell a story. Hell, it's worked in Japanese comics for decades. The problem is just what you pointed out--that a story is often spread out unnecessarily so that very little actually happens in each issue. When a story arc is well-planned so that each piece tells an integral part of the whole, I much prefer it to single-issue stories. Unfortunately, a lot of times we end up with a story that is realistically a 2-parter that is stretched over 4 or 6 parts. This sort of poor pacing can ruin even the best of stories, which is to say nothing about the additional money that must be spent to even read it in its entirety.

[90'sCartoonMan]

This whole "decompression" problem began when Marvel instituted their new trade paperback policy. Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas revitalized the tpb line, but at a price. It has created the very situation that Kirk G described so well. We pay over $3.00 (with tax) for one comic, and are not getting our money's worth. The individual stories are tailored to fit the trade paperback. The monthly comics suffer as a result.

I think it was definitely worse when Jemas was still with Marvel. All the new titles had six issue arcs. Let me think...Hawkeye, Human Torch, Namor, Thanos, Silver Surfer...maybe some of the X-titles like Mystique, Rogue, and Nightcrawler (I'm not sure since I didn't read those). And they all flopped. Bendis can do it well, a lot of writers can't (probably because they don't want to).

There are still paced-for-the-trade arcs, but it doesn't seem like a requirement of Marvel anymore. Dan Slott takes only as long as he needs to to tell stories in She-Hulk and Thing. Brubaker's stories in Captain America and Daredevil (and as I'm sure we'll see in Uncanny) may be multi-part, but stuff happens in each issue.

it may increase the bottom line but at the cost to integrating newer fans who dont know or understand about decompression and will feel gipped and never read a comic again.

I think the hope was it's easier to get new fans if they can buy a trade and catch up on many back issues at once.

If Marvel doubles the current rate of decompression (in other words, 12 issues to tell a story instead of 6), Bendis will be able to write twice as many titles. Bendis books sell well, so this step is inevitable.

Taking an entire year to tell only one story? ::shudders:: I don't like the sound of that.

[Hombre]

There after, except for the occassional long form story arc (like Kree-Skrull War in Avengers or X-men saga in the Savage Land) most stories were one shot or two parters. Major cross-overs were rare, but a treat when they happened.

Now, flash forward to today.
The complaint is that to buy a complete story, the fan must buy at least six consecutive issues, and that any one issue doesn't advance the story sufficiently far enough that it justifies the $3 price. One issue is never complete in and of itself.



But do these stories resolve anything, give a sense of closure of any sort, even in the context of a continued saga?

The first of the above two paragraphs puzzles me a bit. I have read Marvel Comics for a lifetime, and ever since the Bronze Age, apart for the occasional one or two parter, they have always been characterized by long, complex story arcs. Which, however after a number of issues reach some sort of ending, possibly a satisfactory one.

The examples, of course, are endless.

Giant Size Avengers #4 ends the Celestial Madonna saga,

Avengers #149 ends the Serpent Crown saga,

Thor #266 and #271 end the Quest for Odin and F.A.U.S.T storylines, respectively,

Jungle Action #18 ends Panther's Rage,

Iron Man #107 ends the Midas saga,

Defenders Annual #1 ends the Nebulon/Headmen saga...

[Tommy]

I agree. I think story arcs are a good way to tell a story. Hell, it's worked in Japanese comics for decades. The problem is just what you pointed out--that a story is often spread out unnecessarily so that very little actually happens in each issue. When a story arc is well-planned so that each piece tells an integral part of the whole, I much prefer it to single-issue stories. Unfortunately, a lot of times we end up with a story that is realistically a 2-parter that is stretched over 4 or 6 parts. This sort of poor pacing can ruin even the best of stories, which is to say nothing about the additional money that must be spent to even read it in its entirety.
Hmmm... I find it interesting that you bring up Japanese comics. That is where decompression originated. And they contain more padding, and unnecessary spreading than anything you would find in America.

Mostly people here are bitching about bad decompression. When done well you wind up with something brilliant like Alias or Supreme Power. Titles where you truly get to know the characters.

But then again not all comics are meant to be decompressed. Anything bright is not going to be good Decompressed. Decompression is about slowly rising tension and elevated mood.

Taking an entire year to tell only one story? ::shudders:: I don't like the sound of that.

Really? Ed Brubaker made his career out of it. Sleeper 1&2, Authority Revolution, and the current Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire.

[Nick MB]

I think decompression is no longer as big a thing at Marvel, or at least, it's no longer forced upon people. Rather than appearing in every series, it is being used by writers who like it, such as Bendis or Vaughan, and ignored by others like Slott or David. And that's the way I think it should be, writers being allowed to do as they please.

[dingo]

How would it do that? Marvel is still paying the writer, artist, colourist, letterer, etc. for each individual issue, regardless of how much plot or action it contains.

It makes TPB's more attractive when they contain a coherent and continuous story. Apparently there is money in the TPB's.

[Tommy]

You know... I also would like to say...


Just because a story is told in six parts does not make it decompressed.

And just because a story is told in one part does not make it compressed.

[Cephus]

Just because a story is told in six parts does not make it decompressed.

And just because a story is told in one part does not make it compressed.

No, but we know that Marvel is influencing writers to create stories with 6-issue arcs because it makes Marvel's bottom line look better and we have writers who are realizing that if they make the TPB sell better, they get more money off of it, therefore we have two different circumstances resulting in stories being pushed toward a 6-issue arc, regardless of whether they should be or not. It's no longer a matter of an individual writer writing a story, it's Marvel and the writers trying to maximize their income, often to the detriment of the story.

[Tommy]

No, but we know that Marvel is influencing writers to create stories with 6-issue arcs
Except we don't. Geoff Johns (the only REAL case I have ever seen where there might be some base to the claim) wrote a five issue arch, a one shot, a crossover issue ,a one shot, six issue arch, a one shot, a four part arch, and a one shot.

Which is no where NEAR a series of six issue archs.

[lima_bean]

Actually Ive been enjoying comics more and more since decompression got more popular and common. I enjoy it and like it as a story telling mechanism.

[Kirk G]

But do these stories resolve anything, give a sense of closure of any sort, even in the context of a continued saga?

The first of the above two paragraphs puzzles me a bit. I have read Marvel Comics for a lifetime, and ever since the Bronze Age, apart for the occasional one or two parter, they have always been characterized by long, complex story arcs. Which, however after a number of issues reach some sort of ending, possibly a satisfactory one.
...

Sorry.
I started talking about Marvel comics at the birth of the silver age, jumped forward about four to five years, then jumped the entire bronze age to today.
Your examples may be accurate. I skipped out of comics for about 7-8 years between 1972 and 1979 while in college when alot of what you cite happened.

[Shellhead]

Decompression isn't just about long stories, it's about long stories with few events. Look at television, where more has happened in a few episodes of Prison Break than the whole first season of Lost, unless you count all the Lost flashbacks as advancing the story, which they don't. Both shows appear to be formulaic, but at least the Prison Break formula includes a cliffhanger before every commercial break, and the story moves along at a better pace because the viewer almost always knows what's actually happening in a given scene.

[The Shadow]

If Marvel doubles the current rate of decompression (in other words, 12 issues to tell a story instead of 6), Bendis will be able to write twice as many titles. Bendis books sell well, so this step is inevitable.
Why does everyone say that about Bendis? Not every single story he writes is 6 issues. NA Breakout was, but Sentry, Ronin, Spider-Woman and the last 2 issues of NA weren't. Same with many of his Daredevil stories and USM stuff as well. I think the guy gets a bum wrap a lot of the time on this.

[The Shadow]

Taking an entire year to tell only one story? ::shudders:: I don't like the sound of that.
You didn't read Hush or the Jim Lee Superman? Or Avengers Forever? Or Long Halloween?

It's not that uncommon.

[Kirk G]

There was a lot of detail and backstory to wade through in Avengers Forever... it REALLY needed the expanded format. But I will grant there were some issues that seemed not to advance the plot. But as a whole, it's a massive read. My head still hurts when I sit down to reread more than an issue or two at a sitting.

[Alan2099]

Why does everyone say that about Bendis?
Seven issues to retell the origin of Spider-man. No matter how many issues he takes to twell future stories, he's not going to live up to taking a 15 page story and stretching it to seven issues.

[The Shadow]

Seven issues to retell the origin of Spider-man. No matter how many issues he takes to twell future stories, he's not going to live up to taking a 15 page story and stretching it to seven issues.
LOL :D

THAT I can't argue with! ;)

[curefreak]

How would it do that? Marvel is still paying the writer, artist, colourist, letterer, etc. for each individual issue, regardless of how much plot or action it contains.
trade paper backs cost more= marvel makes more money.

[curefreak]

i cant believe im saying this but...
i could kind of see the point of dragging ultimate spidermans origins out like he did since especially the origin has been told so many times it only makes sense to expand the story somewhat to make it more interesting. but i def dont think it should be used as often as it has.

[Lorendiac]

Just to play devils advocate, there is nothing inherently wrong with a six issue arc. The problem is when each individual issue does not progress the story. It requires an editor in the "editor of a novel" sense, which is to say somebody with a red pen and an urge to use it.

I can go along with that. There is no "magic number" of issues. There is no Unbreakable Law of Superhero Storytelling that says "all good story arcs should be four issues long -- or even less!" :)

The material now known as "The Dark Phoenix Saga" was what, originally nine consecutive issues by Claremont and Byrne? And Jean Grey had already been having some weird mental hallucinations and stuff for a while before the first story reprinted in the TPB collection of the saga. The fans at the time could not know that this meant Mastermind was trying to brainwash her into becoming the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club, but the seeds were being planted! Claremont was already a big believer in letting subplots slowly build up for awhile while the heroes were focused on solving some other problem entirely. I don't feel the Saga was "painfully slow-paced" or "padded with lots of extra fat" or whatever terms critics sometimes use nowadays to describe an excessively "decompressed" story.

And I don't remember the last time I saw anyone say that "Watchmen," a 12-part story, would have been better if Moore had cut out a bunch of those "flashback" sequences about the origins of Rorschach, Dr. Manhattan, etc., and had simply found a way to squeeze every essential piece of plot development into a mere 6 issues or less!

(But to be fair: I have seen people complain that he could have afforded to trim back the number of panels that were supposed to be part of a "pirate story comic book" published within the world of the Watchmen, and frankly I do sympathize with that point of view. But that by itself would not have cut the length of the series in half!)

On the other hand, some time ago I bought and read a copy of the TPB that collected Joss Whedon's second six-issue story arc from "Astonishing X-Men." I felt there was not six issues' worth of substantial plot development in that story arc. But I agree that this doesn't prove that six-issue story arcs are always a waste of time; just that this specific example was! (Frankly, I wouldn't have liked the basic "shocking retcon" at the heart of the plot even if it had only been a two-issue story -- but I would have conceded that it didn't feel like it dragged on forever.)

[bulbasteve]

I'm still confused on the whole decompression thing. You guys keep talking about the length of the story arcs, but I thought it was more the amount of dialog. When I think of decompressed I think of all those "cinematic" pages of peoples reactions with no text. If someone like Kirkman does a 5 issue arc but it's jam packed with text, is that still decompression? Even though in say a Bendis one you will get far less.

[Jake V]

Seven issues to retell the origin of Spider-man. No matter how many issues he takes to twell future stories, he's not going to live up to taking a 15 page story and stretching it to seven issues.
If all that happened in those 7 issues was Peter getting powers, Uncle Ben dying and Peter deciding to be Spider-Man, you might have a point. Within the 7 issues, a fairly extensive supporting cast was introduced and fleshed out, Uncle Ben and Aunt May were given actual personalities, Peter's first major villain was introduced and he fought him twice, as well as all the events you'd expect Spider-Man's origin to have.

It was basically the first Spider-Man movie with more plot. Coulda been shrunk down to 6 issues maybe, but it wasn't as simplistic as stretching 15 pages to 154.

[Lorendiac]

trade paper backs cost more= marvel makes more money.

Wait. It seems to me that a TPB of a six-issue story arc costs me less than it would have cost me to buy all six of the individual issues as they came out.

For instance, according to the cover scan of "Astonishing X-Men #7" at http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=220530&zoom=4, it would have cost me $2.99 (plus tax) to buy that issue. So the cost for six issues would have been nearly $18.00

But according to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078511677X/sr=1-2/qid=1155254037/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-6172018-3054425?ie=UTF8&s=books) the TPB collection of #'s 7-12 has a list price of just $14.99. Which is like getting the sixth issue for free, basically. (And, of course, that's just the official list price. If I ordered a copy from Amazon right this minute, it would only cost me $9.74.)

[curefreak]

Wait. It seems to me that a TPB of a six-issue story arc costs me less than it would have cost me to buy all six of the individual issues as they came out.

For instance, according to the cover scan of "Astonishing X-Men #7" at http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=220530&zoom=4, it would have cost me $2.99 (plus tax) to buy that issue. So the cost for six issues would have been nearly $18.00

But according to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078511677X/sr=1-2/qid=1155254037/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-6172018-3054425?ie=UTF8&s=books) the TPB collection of #'s 7-12 has a list price of just $14.99. Which is like getting the sixth issue for free, basically. (And, of course, that's just the official list price. If I ordered a copy from Amazon right this minute, it would only cost me $9.74.)
im not good with numbers so ill just accept youre point on that one.
but does anyone have trouble waiting for the tpbs to come in ?
after all you would have to avoid a lot of spoilers online to do so.

[Lorendiac]

im not good with numbers so ill just accept youre point on that one.
but does anyone have trouble waiting for the tpbs to come in ?
after all you would have to avoid a lot of spoilers online to do so.

These days, I almost always wait for the TPBs to come in. I did it that way with the first and second story arcs from "Astonishing X-Men," after all. They hadn't been particularly spoiled for me because I hadn't been hanging out on forums that were specifically dedicated to talking about the X-Men's latest monthly issues. Sometimes things do get spoiled for me, but I've learned to live with it.

One reason I prefer it this way is that when a story arc was originally written as "one long story, published in six parts," when I get the TPB I can read the entire thing in one gulp, instead of reading a couple of scenes, and waiting for a month while I forget the details of what little has been accomplished so far, and then reading a few more scenes, and then waiting another month while I forget the details of what little has been accomplished so far . . .

[dingo]

I'm still confused on the whole decompression thing. You guys keep talking about the length of the story arcs, but I thought it was more the amount of dialog. When I think of decompressed I think of all those "cinematic" pages of peoples reactions with no text. If someone like Kirkman does a 5 issue arc but it's jam packed with text, is that still decompression? Even though in say a Bendis one you will get far less.

Decompression is really hard to define.

I would say it's not even related to the amount of dialogue.

If there is pages and pages of dialogue, but that dialogue doesn't further the story or plot and does very little character development, then it is just pointless.

If the dialog is not doing anything for the story then it is there to pad space. For old school comic fans we expect every panel to be filled to the brim with action, adventure, excitement, tradgedy, humour or something. When you get an issue where nothing happens (in the figurative sense) then pages of dialogue do not disguise that fact.

[curefreak]

These days, I almost always wait for the TPBs to come in. I did it that way with the first and second story arcs from "Astonishing X-Men," after all. They hadn't been particularly spoiled for me because I hadn't been hanging out on forums that were specifically dedicated to talking about the X-Men's latest monthly issues. Sometimes things do get spoiled for me, but I've learned to live with it.

One reason I prefer it this way is that when a story arc was originally written as "one long story, published in six parts," when I get the TPB I can read the entire thing in one gulp, instead of reading a couple of scenes, and waiting for a month while I forget the details of what little has been accomplished so far, and then reading a few more scenes, and then waiting another month while I forget the details of what little has been accomplished so far . . .
makes sense to me.

[Shellhead]

Continuing with my television analogies (because we can all afford to watch popular network tv shows, but we can't all afford every comic)... I like the Veronica Mars formula the best. Nearly every episode tells a single story, whatever Veronica's current case or hassle is this week. In addition, each episode has at least a couple of scenes that also advance one of the long-term story arcs that will be resolved at the end of the season or even carried forward to the next season. That delivers satisfaction at the end of each episode while also building to a more dramatic season finale at the same time.

[Kid Lantern]

like most scary things it came from japan.

[90'sCartoonMan]

You didn't read Hush or the Jim Lee Superman? Or Avengers Forever? Or Long Halloween?

It's not that uncommon.

Those last two were limited series, though. You know what you're getting into when you start them because they have one clear story and then it's over, the team has done it's work.

With an ongoing, I just expect more. Reading Spider-Man for five years and only getting five stories is a little unsatisfying. It's good to do every once and a while or for minis, but if every Marvel title was like that and continued to be like that for years, it would be unpleasant.

I'm still confused on the whole decompression thing. You guys keep talking about the length of the story arcs, but I thought it was more the amount of dialog. When I think of decompressed I think of all those "cinematic" pages of peoples reactions with no text. If someone like Kirkman does a 5 issue arc but it's jam packed with text, is that still decompression?

It's all about padding. Cinematic pages pad stories because it's less time for things to happen. That one New Avengers had 8 splash pages, THAT makes a story longer. It fills pages. You can do that with a lot of dialogue too. That's the whole "talking head syndrome". Saying a lot of stuff that doesn't take that long to say. More padding.

[BeastieRunner]

I actually think DC is more at fault than Marvel in this, to a degree.

IC(6 parts plus OYL plus 52 issues of 52 plus tie-ins), Ion (12 parts), Martian Manhunter (8 parts), Batman: Hush (12 parts), last Hellblazer arc (7 parts), etc.

Whereas Marvel has events, minis, arcs that are 3-6 parts on a higher average (New Excaliber, Agents of Atlas, Moon Knight) but is still guilty of this (Civil War and Annihilation [though not as bad as CW] have numerous issues and tie-ins) as well.

There are times this is good and times it's horrible. I think too often editors jump to make something longer or decide keep something longer in order to make money. In Marvel's case, Blade and a couple other new series look to be have full self contained stories finally which I think will finally bring back some old comic collectors who stopped due to the cost of have 26 issue stories that could be told in 1-3 parts.

Some stories can't be told in one issue but a lot that are stretched out, really shouldn't.

[Nick Kal]

Wait. It seems to me that a TPB of a six-issue story arc costs me less than it would have cost me to buy all six of the individual issues as they came out.

For instance, according to the cover scan of "Astonishing X-Men #7" at http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=220530&zoom=4, it would have cost me $2.99 (plus tax) to buy that issue. So the cost for six issues would have been nearly $18.00

But according to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078511677X/sr=1-2/qid=1155254037/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-6172018-3054425?ie=UTF8&s=books) the TPB collection of #'s 7-12 has a list price of just $14.99. Which is like getting the sixth issue for free, basically. (And, of course, that's just the official list price. If I ordered a copy from Amazon right this minute, it would only cost me $9.74.)

Current comics are not taxable items while tpbs are. Not that this disproves your point or anything...

[Tommy]

I'm still confused on the whole decompression thing. You guys keep talking about the length of the story arcs, but I thought it was more the amount of dialog. When I think of decompressed I think of all those "cinematic" pages of peoples reactions with no text. If someone like Kirkman does a 5 issue arc but it's jam packed with text, is that still decompression? Even though in say a Bendis one you will get far less.
Decompression has NOTHING to do with "cinematic pages" or splash pages (once more two different things).

Alias had a total of about 11 splash pages over the course of 28 issues. Alias was not cinematic AT ALL. But Alias was decompressed.

Decompression is a writing style where the focus is always on characters (or occasionally the world). When a person writes decompressed you are supposed to get a real feeling for the characters. And to achieve that feeling areas of plot are expanded that normally get glazed over. People will not immediately launch into expository dialog. They will exchange greetings, maybe have some small talk, then have said dialog, followed with a goodbye.

Cinematic story telling is about photorealistic art combined with wide screen shots of destruction. The equivalent of high cost special effects in a movie.

Splash pages are just pages that feature one comic panel for one or two pages. They can be almost devoid of text, or they can be filled to over flowing with text. Alias's Splash pages generally had more dialog per page than most writers would put on two pages.

(If there is one thing I have learned it is that very few people have an accurate grasp on what decompression or several other writting terms are.)

[algertman]

I have to disagree with decompression coming from Japan. In japan, manga is told in a smaller format. They can not fit as much on a single page as a standard american comic because the page would be crowded. Especially for action scenes. So the stories/arcs are carried on longer for that reason. Also pay attention to the pacing. Decompression has alot to do with pacing. Manga is usuall paced very fast. Stuff like Bendis and Brubaker is paced at the speed of a snail. Hell, they have issues in arcs that do nothing but tell you what has happened in that arc up to that point. Difference is that Brubaker can usually pace a slow story and make it good. Bendis has problem with that, with his "everyone stands around and does nothing for an entire issue" thing he always pulls out.

[Shellhead]

Decompression has NOTHING to do with "cinematic pages" or splash pages (once more two different things).

Alias had a total of about 11 splash pages over the course of 28 issues. Alias was not cinematic AT ALL. But Alias was decompressed.

Decompression is a writing style where the focus is always on characters (or occasionally the world). When a person writes decompressed you are supposed to get a real feeling for the characters. And to achieve that feeling areas of plot are expanded that normally get glazed over. People will not immediately launch into expository dialog. They will exchange greetings, maybe have some small talk, then have said dialog, followed with a goodbye.

Cinematic story telling is about photorealistic art combined with wide screen shots of destruction. The equivalent of high cost special effects in a movie.

Splash pages are just pages that feature one comic panel for one or two pages. They can be almost devoid of text, or they can be filled to over flowing with text. Alias's Splash pages generally had more dialog per page than most writers would put on two pages.

(If there is one thing I have learned it is that very few people have an accurate grasp on what decompression or several other writting terms are.)

Maybe you should try to edit the Wikipedia entry, because your definition of decompression doesn't quite match their current definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_%28comics%29

"Decompression is a stylistic choice in comic book storytelling, characterized by a strong emphasis on visuals or character interaction and usually resulting in slow-moving plots.

"Decompressed stories have been the cause of considerable controversy and debate amongst the American comics fandom. Many detractors accuse their writers of unnecessarily stretching out the page length of plots, thinning out the content per page in order to earn more sales and money for a limited amount of work. Defenders of the style claim that decompressed stories are not stretched out, but rich in character development and mood rather than plot progression. Some see the phenomenon as driven by the increasing popularity of trade paperbacks, which typically collect an average of six comic book issues in a volume and thus provide a target length for stories to fit."

[Kylun123]

What books out there do y'all feel are still compressed? Is there anything that on a consistent basis puts out full stories every month that are packed into 3/4 issue storyarcs? Or at least pull off 6 issues without one feeling like filler.

I picked up Moon Knight with issue #1, after returning to comics after 6 year hiatus, and was really excited and anxious to see what was happening next, and then #4 happened, and I felt like the issue wasn't really necessary. Obviously it's ok if in the long run 5 & 6 provide great closure to a great beginning, but it's that issue that brought me to the issues of decompression.

So anyway my question was what titles out there don't provide fluff for an issue or even half of one to draw out stories but are consistently developing characters or plot?

I found the Hulk arc (the current one) to be pretty good in this area, and now that I think about it, each arc of Planet Hulk has been about 4 issues, which sounds like it might be a good number. Again, I understand that it's not about number of issues as long as each issue provides advancement to story.

[dingo]

What books out there do y'all feel are still compressed? Is there anything that on a consistent basis puts out full stories every month that are packed into 3/4 issue storyarcs? Or at least pull off 6 issues without one feeling like filler.

I picked up Moon Knight with issue #1, after returning to comics after 6 year hiatus, and was really excited and anxious to see what was happening next, and then #4 happened, and I felt like the issue wasn't really necessary. Obviously it's ok if in the long run 5 & 6 provide great closure to a great beginning, but it's that issue that brought me to the issues of decompression.

So anyway my question was what titles out there don't provide fluff for an issue or even half of one to draw out stories but are consistently developing characters or plot?

I found the Hulk arc (the current one) to be pretty good in this area, and now that I think about it, each arc of Planet Hulk has been about 4 issues, which sounds like it might be a good number. Again, I understand that it's not about number of issues as long as each issue provides advancement to story.

Dan Slott is still "compressed". I find Brubaker to be really good in that regard too. Millars 6 issue arcs don't feel decompressed to me. JMS is borderline. There are other "compressed" writers but they slip my mind at the moment.

Oh, Defalco is "compressed" too.

[metr0man]

when peter parker goes to buy a carton of milk and gets into a skirmish with Doc Ock... and it lasts 5 issues, 'tis decompression ;)

[algertman]

Dan Slott is still "compressed". I find Brubaker to be really good in that regard too. Millars 6 issue arcs don't feel decompressed to me. JMS is borderline. There are other "compressed" writers but they slip my mind at the moment.

Oh, Defalco is "compressed" too.


Brubaker? Gotta disagree. the guy decompresses like nobodies business

[dingo]

Brubaker? Gotta disagree. the guy decompresses like nobodies business

Fair enough. That just shows that decompression is a matter of taste as much as anything else.

Personally I find that something is happening all the time in a Brubaker book. They may be long arcs but there is not a page wasted.

I suppose that I feel the same way about Joss Whedon and I have seen people complain that he is decompressed.

[curefreak]

Fair enough. That just shows that decompression is a matter of taste as much as anything else.

Personally I find that something is happening all the time in a Brubaker book. They may be long arcs but there is not a page wasted.

I suppose that I feel the same way about Joss Whedon and I have seen people complain that he is decompressed.
the sad thing is hes gotten worse.

[XPac]

The only time I honestly feel decompression is a problem is when a writer is FORCED to pad their wring (be it to a trade paper back or for whatever other reason).

Different writers have different pacing... and there's really no such thing as a right or a wrong way to do it. If Bendis naturally rights that way, then that's how he does it. And if critics like it and it sells well, more power to him.

Many obviously don't like the pacing, and that's fine too. It's just a matter of taste... there's no right or wrong way to make a comicbook. I persoanlly think there's room for different writing styles and formats.

[Alan2099]

Dan Slott is still "compressed". I find Brubaker to be really good in that regard too. Millars 6 issue arcs don't feel decompressed to me. JMS is borderline. There are other "compressed" writers but they slip my mind at the moment.

Oh, Defalco is "compressed" too.

Kirkman is also really good about not compressing stuff. Ennis is hit or miss. Normally he doesn't but when he does decompress stuff it's really obvious.

[Tommy]

Maybe you should try to edit the Wikipedia entry, because your definition of decompression doesn't quite match their current definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_%28comics%29

"Decompression is a stylistic choice in comic book storytelling, characterized by a strong emphasis on visuals or character interaction and usually resulting in slow-moving plots.

"Decompressed stories have been the cause of considerable controversy and debate amongst the American comics fandom. Many detractors accuse their writers of unnecessarily stretching out the page length of plots, thinning out the content per page in order to earn more sales and money for a limited amount of work. Defenders of the style claim that decompressed stories are not stretched out, but rich in character development and mood rather than plot progression. Some see the phenomenon as driven by the increasing popularity of trade paperbacks, which typically collect an average of six comic book issues in a volume and thus provide a target length for stories to fit."
Support WIKIALITY today! Don't be a factinista!

I have to disagree with decompression coming from Japan. In japan, manga is told in a smaller format. They can not fit as much on a single page as a standard american comic because the page would be crowded. Especially for action scenes. So the stories/arcs are carried on longer for that reason. Also pay attention to the pacing. Decompression has alot to do with pacing. Manga is usuall paced very fast. Stuff like Bendis and Brubaker is paced at the speed of a snail. Hell, they have issues in arcs that do nothing but tell you what has happened in that arc up to that point. Difference is that Brubaker can usually pace a slow story and make it good. Bendis has problem with that, with his "everyone stands around and does nothing for an entire issue" thing he always pulls out.

Obviously you have not been exposed to the horrors of five instalment flights, whole archs of training, ranting before, after, and occasonaly in the middle of fights.

It is not as bad as anime (if you want to see how bad decompression can get watch Nurato) but it is still pretty bad.