The Smoking Ban No More?

[Young Avenger]

I was re-reading my issues of Moon Knight eariler today and I've noticed that Crawley and The Profile smoking. Hell, every panel that showed The Profile had him with a cig. So I thought, did Joe Q relaxed the the smoking ban policy? Changed his mind again? Another slip up?

[Sam T.]

I was re-reading my issues of Moon Knight eariler today and I've noticed that Crawley and The Profile smoking. Hell, every panel that showed The Profile had him with a cig. So I thought, did Joe Q relaxed the the smoking ban policy? Changed his mind again? Another slip up?


I think maybe it was. Really Wolverine should be shown smoking like he was back in the day!

[Gargus]

I always see charcters smoke, course its just like badguys and such for the most part. Like gangsters smoking or something like that, only time I see a hero smoke is when its like a pipe which I guess means they arent a real smoker, they are sophisticated.

I used to like it when wolverine was always chewing on a cigar or nick fury or the thing. But I guess again cigars dont seem as bad as cigarettes do which confuses me, but its the way things are.

Some charcters it fits who they are supposed to be but on the whole I dont care. I mean hell it would be weird to see captain america or she hulk smoke. But like tony stark I could see him smoking on occasion in his suave playboyish ways, especially the ultimate version of him.

[Will.S]

I was re-reading my issues of Moon Knight eariler today and I've noticed that Crawley and The Profile smoking. Hell, every panel that showed The Profile had him with a cig. So I thought, did Joe Q relaxed the the smoking ban policy? Changed his mind again? Another slip up?
I'm guessing that they're more lax on villains and supporting cast characters smoking than the actual heroes.

[StoneGold]

I'm guessing that they're more lax on villains and supporting cast characters smoking than the actual heroes.
Or at least that it's a lot more noticable when Moon Knight is smoking than random guy in the supporting cast.

[The Shadow]

I'm guessing that they're more lax on villains and supporting cast characters smoking than the actual heroes.
Joe said at Newsarama that showing the villains smoking was OK as they're bad guys.

There was a slip in Ms Marvel #1 I believe when Jessica was smoking when talking to Carol... but it's suppose to be only the bad guys.

Re: Wolverine smoking - It is hardly a necessity and doesn't add anything to the character.

[Michael P]

Joe said at Newsarama that showing the villains smoking was OK as they're bad guys.
Which, I suppose, explains Joe smoking a big fat cigar in the upcoming CSI: Dying in the Gutters.

[daniel2099]

what bann is this only moon kight ? nick fury is almost alwas shown with a ciggar in this mouth

[StoneGold]

what bann is this only moon kight ? nick fury is almost alwas shown with a ciggar in this mouth
Yes. In the past. When was the last time you saw Fury with a cigar?


Hell, when was the last time you saw Fury?


Truth is, even before Quesada said no more smoking, they tried to get Fury to quit. There was a miniseries Chaykin wrote where they said SHIELD's health insurance wouldn't cover him if he continued to smoke.

[Violently Apathetic]

So, peeling off your enemy's face=good. Smoking=morally reprehensible and below any title character. Gotcha, Marvel *thumbs up*

[The Shadow]

So, peeling off your enemy's face=good. Smoking=morally reprehensible and below any title character. Gotcha, Marvel *thumbs up*
:rolleyes:

What do you think kids are more likely to emulate: A "cool" Wolverine smoking and talking tough or the crazy Wolverine killing people left and right?

[The_Vision]

Does make me remember the old X-Men comic when Kitty grabs Wolverine's cigar, and he replies "Your funeral" - then launches into an explanation of why he could smoke and she couldn't (his healing factor). Then Kitty wanting to "barf" after trying it. Made perfect sense, and it did add something to his character, at least to me.

[Violently Apathetic]

:rolleyes:

What do you think kids are more likely to emulate: A "cool" Wolverine smoking and talking tough or the crazy Wolverine killing people left and right?

I think most well adjusted kids with various influences outside of comic books aren't too likely to emulate either, personally...and both 'cool' Wolverine and 'crazy' Wolverine are killing people if you look at it that way...one is just more direct about it. I'd rather get violently slashed to bits than slowly die of lung cancer, if I get a choice in the matter. My point is that it seems silly to make a big deal about positive role models in the same topic where the title character (Moon Knight) seems happy to rip people's faces off and smack around his girlfriend.

[The Shadow]

I think most well adjusted kids with various influences outside of comic books aren't too likely to emulate either
Then why does advertising have an effect? Because people know it reaches its audience.

That's why product plkacement is so big in movies... because people see their heros using something and they want it.

Wolverine may smoke generic cigars, but it still effects people. Maybe not you (though I bet something similar has happened) but the effct, however small is there.

[Violently Apathetic]

So what you're saying is that kids are likely to be influenced and emulate what they read in comic books without exception? Interesting, let's hope children don't get a hold of a copy of Moon Knight or we'll have an entire generation of face rippers.

In all seriousness I am big supporter of the idea of limiting the amount of violence and morally questionable behavior young children are exposed to as I do not deny the negative affects such things have on children. I still just think mentioning smoking in the same context as face ripping seems asinine. Should Wolverine, Fury and Moon Knight (I don't think he does, but for the sake of the argument let's assume he smokes) be depicted smoking in an All Ages book? No, of course not, but people aren't generally violently murdered in such books either. I simply believe that if bloody guts and mayhem are allowed in a Teen book and considered appropriate for that age group and rating then I don't see the harm in allowing Wolverine to keep his killer habit. Anything else to me suggests really messed up priorities. So basically I agree with you in spirit, we shouldn't really expose children to behavior we don't want them copying, I think we just disagree on consistency and where to draw the line and what exactly said line is.

[The Shadow]

So what you're saying is that kids are likely to be influenced and emulate what they read in comic books without exception?
No, and no where did I say that.

I see a movie with a fast car and when I leave the theatre I tend to drive faster. It's totally subconscious. That's why product placement advertising works.

And again, I think kids, if brought up right, will have enough of a moral compass to differentiate between a smoke and ripping someone's face off. In fact they really aren't that comparable at all... but whatever.

[drwho]

I believe Marvel has jumped on the product placement band wagon so if they are getting paid to show a cigarette or two in a comic why not.

[Doom Hammer]

No, and no where did I say that.

I see a movie with a fast car and when I leave the theatre I tend to drive faster. It's totally subconscious. That's why product placement advertising works.

And again, I think kids, if brought up right, will have enough of a moral compass to differentiate between a smoke and ripping someone's face off. In fact they really aren't that comparable at all... but whatever.

You know what's not subconcious, at least for most non-smoking children? Buying cigarettes. Then smoking them.

So driving faster and smoking are no more comparable than smoking and face-cutting.

[Violently Apathetic]

No, and no where did I say that.
I know, it was just a drive by polemical, sorry.
I see a movie with a fast car and when I leave the theatre I tend to drive faster. It's totally subconscious. That's why product placement advertising works.


And people who watch wrestling tend to be more violent (especially girls, oddly enough). All I'm saying is that if you believe that children (heck, all people) are influenced by what they see in the media then you shouldn't pick and choose based on what suits your argument at the time. If kids are suggestible enough to take up smoking because Wolverine does it I don't see why violence is any different. Heck, studies DO show that children who read/watch a lot of violence are more likely to be aggressive and isn't that a crusade just as much worth fighting as ending smoking?

Again, I'm not saying Wolverine and others SHOULD smoke, especially in all ages books, just that if you're worried about a highly suggestible audience then you should be consistent and censor all negative behavior that you don't want them copying, not just your pet issue. That will never happen mind you, as that would involve removing all the pre marital sex and violence from our comics, but eh, it's just what I would consider consistent. I'd rather see the rating system pushed more and more 'family friendly' books than see them try to arbitrarily censor certain things for being inappropriate and not others.

[The Shadow]

You know what's not subconcious, at least for most non-smoking children? Buying cigarettes. Then smoking them.

So driving faster and smoking are no more comparable than smoking and face-cutting.
No, but the desire to go buy them is there... because Wolverine looks cool!

And just like my desire to drive faster, which I KNOW I'm making a conscious effort to do is because the movie said so... so yeah, they are comparable.

The subconcious idea planted (smokes or driving fast) is translated into a conscious act of doing... because of an outside influence.

I wouldn't have driven faster had I not seen the movie and some kid may not have bought smokes because he didn't see Wolverine smoking.

Comparable? I think so.

[The Shadow]

I know, it was just a drive by polemical, sorry.
It's all good!


If kids are suggestible enough to take up smoking because Wolverine does it I don't see why violence is any different. Heck, studies DO show that children who read/watch a lot of violence are more likely to be aggressive and isn't that a crusade just as much worth fighting as ending smoking?
Yes... BUT (and this is the crux and I know you mentioned it later in your post but...) these are comic books based on good guys defeating bad guys. There has to be violence. When there's not people complain (like Bendis' handling of Alpha Flight for example!).

Also the comic market is so inbred (not literally of course... well, it COULD be I suppose...) that if Marvel used its rating system as a barometer and had Moon Knight smoking in the Teen T+ stuff (like the X-Men) and not smoking in the all ages A rated stuff (which includes Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four) I'm not talking the Marvel Adventure books either but the regular Marvel Universe) people would FREAK... you KNOW it's true too ;)

Because "Wolverine is smoking in Book A... but not in Book B... that's... (any of the following)
A) out of character,
B) bad editing at Marvel,
C) writer X doesn't "get" Wolverine while writer Y does,
D) inconsistent continuity at Marvel,
E) Joe Q sending mixed messages..." and so on.

[Nesteaman]

I used to like it when wolverine was always chewing on a cigar or nick fury or the thing. But I guess again cigars dont seem as bad as cigarettes do which confuses me, but its the way things are.

.

Well for one thing cigars are a once and a while type of thing, and you do not inhale, so most likely you don't get addicted to them... I miss smoking in comics! :(

[The Shadow]

I miss smoking in comics!
Can I ask you why?

I mean, what difference did it make?

Does it matter if Fury is smoking when he gives an order or kicks someone's ass? What's the appeal??

This ban's been in effect for over 5 years now... why not just... move on?

[phantom1592]

I never even noticed the ban:confused:

of course it's been a long time since I've read anything with Johnny Blaze or Gambit in it.

I remember Wolverine quit smoking when his adamantium was ripped out and his Healling factor failed him. That was the one of the points they made about how weak he was. I don't remember him starting up again.

[Delephynite]

I'm guessing that they're more lax on villains and supporting cast characters smoking than the actual heroes.

Mhmm, I can see that happening, as in a strange, it’s 1am and everything is beginning to make that connected sense sensation due to sleep deprivation kind of way; bad guys represent evil and therefore smoking also evil. It works; you just need to have an impressionable mind.

I do realise I am somewhat stating the obvious and I apologise for this.

[kel25]

I miss smoking in comics!
I agree somewhat.

Can I ask you why?

Some characters the smoking seems to be part of their icon. Nick Fury without his cigars would be about the same with him without his eyepatch. Sure I think smoking is a filthy habit but it can also be a character trait, although not a good one. I find it odd about the no smoking ban but there’s not a no drinking ban.

Could anyone here really want to see some characters, (Example: John Constantine) without cigarettes or drinking. Sherlock Holmes was a drug addict. Sure it’s another bad habit but it does give him some more character.

It should be noted that I’m not saying people should be smoking, drinking, or using drugs. But lets face it people do these things in real life so I have no real problem with them putting it into fiction as long as it’s moderate and not in books targeted strictly to children.

[Leebenhouse]

Some characters the smoking seems to be part of their icon. Nick Fury without his cigars would be about the same with him without his eyepatch. Sure I think smoking is a filthy habit but it can also be a character trait, although not a good one. I find it odd about the no smoking ban but there’s not a no drinking ban.

It should be noted that I’m not saying people should be smoking, drinking, or using drugs. But lets face it people do these things in real life so I have no real problem with them putting it into fiction as long as it’s moderate and not in books targeted strictly to children.

Here here, even in the Nick Fury Hasselhoff TV movie he was chomping a cigar. Though I think a drinking ban would be absurd, since after all, drinking is a national past time, and trying to ban it only made it worse. Well, actually smoking is too, its part of the reason this country came into existance, North America had tobacco, and Europe wanted it.

Characters like Ben Grimm chomping an occasional cigar, or Reed Richards puffing a pipe, or Wolverine chain smoking, thats part of their characters. And even then, out of the three, Reeds the only one that's really human, and could end up having his jaw cut off.

I think their smoking is a classic part of their characters, and Wolverine always was an anti-hero after all, since his main power is giant metal knives popping out of his hands to cut people/stuff with. A good example was an 80's X-men cover that had Wolverine with his claws popped, chomping a cigar while holding up the youngest of the power pack kids over his head. He's not a good guy, so him smoking isnt the worst thing ever.

But hey, I'm a drinker and occasional cigar smoker. Maybe seeing these guys as a kid amde me start. Yeah, right...

[Nesteaman]

Can I ask you why?

I mean, what difference did it make?

Does it matter if Fury is smoking when he gives an order or kicks someone's ass? What's the appeal??

This ban's been in effect for over 5 years now... why not just... move on?


Well not something I literally miss, it did add a little to the characters. But I understand since, kids are reading these books... yaddy yadda.

[Nesteaman]

Can I ask you why?

I mean, what difference did it make?

Does it matter if Fury is smoking when he gives an order or kicks someone's ass? What's the appeal??

This ban's been in effect for over 5 years now... why not just... move on?


Well not something I literally miss, it did add a little to the characters. But I understand since, kids are reading these books... yaddy yadda.

[Nesteaman]

Can I ask you why?

I mean, what difference did it make?

Does it matter if Fury is smoking when he gives an order or kicks someone's ass? What's the appeal??

This ban's been in effect for over 5 years now... why not just... move on?


Well not something I literally miss, it did add a little to the characters. But I understand since, kids are reading these books... yaddy yadda.

[The Shadow]

Well not something I literally miss, it did add a little to the characters. But I understand since, kids are reading these books... yaddy yadda.
OK... OK... by the third post I got it! ;) :D

In all seriousness, I do know what you mean... and personally I don't care either way. As one posted mentioned he didn't even know there was a ban on hero's smoking so it isn't obviously THAT big of a deal to some.

BUT (and here's the kicker) if just one kid doesn't pick up the nasty habit because he didn't see Wolverine smoking and MIGHT have been influenced... that would make it worth it. :)

[kel25]

BUT (and here's the kicker) if just one kid doesn't pick up the nasty habit because he didn't see Wolverine smoking and MIGHT have been influenced... that would make it worth it. :)

With all of the anti-smoking campaigns (that are the biggest propaganda POS in existence) ever kid that sees Wolverine (or any fictional or real character) should know that cigarettes can be addictive and can kill you. If that kid wants to smoke I’ll just chalk it up to modern day natural selection.

Odd isn’t it? I’m strongly anti-thetruth (AKA Propaganda BS for idiots) and somewhat anti-smoking.

thetruth and PETA no groups piss me off more.

[hmnut73]

With all of the anti-smoking campaigns (that are the biggest propaganda POS in existence) ever kid that sees Wolverine (or any fictional or real character) should know that cigarettes can be addictive and can kill you. If that kid wants to smoke I’ll just chalk it up to modern day natural selection.

Odd isn’t it? I’m strongly anti-thetruth (AKA Propaganda BS for idiots) and somewhat anti-smoking.

thetruth and PETA no groups piss me off more.

I have to agree. Although I don't like smoking and I think there are some public places where smoking shouldn't be allowed and I think the tabacco industry has likely known the harmful effects of their products much longer than the average person; I still don't think child who reads comic books today can blame it even partically on comic books.

Pretty much from the moment kids are born now they are told not to smoke, they are told that smoking can lead to death. Before we teach them the difference between boys and girls, before about where baby comes from, before we teach them about what death is we bombard them with this idea that smoking leads to death. With all of this "DO NOT SMOKE!!!!" thrown in their young faces, whose fault is it if they start smoking?

[The Shadow]

whose fault is it if they start smoking?
Wolverine and Nick Fury's! Haven't you been paying attention?

;) :p

[Torchbot]

With all of the anti-smoking campaigns (that are the biggest propaganda POS in existence) ever kid that sees Wolverine (or any fictional or real character) should know that cigarettes can be addictive and can kill you. If that kid wants to smoke I’ll just chalk it up to modern day natural selection.

Odd isn’t it? I’m strongly anti-thetruth (AKA Propaganda BS for idiots) and somewhat anti-smoking.

thetruth and PETA no groups piss me off more.

That's because "The Truth" campaign seems geared towards portraying anti-smokers as inconsiderate jerks so that it implants the idea within the viewer's mind that they are being "rebels" or "sticking it" to those Truth jerks by smoking. The ads are financed by Philip Morris, after all.

I don't mean to sound too much like a conspiracy nut, but think about it for a second. The Truth ads have portrayed the anti-smokers in the following fashion:


driving through a neighborhood in the middle of the night and blasting anti-smoking facts over a megaphone just because one smoking exec lived there
standing on the street yelling anti-smoking facts to everyone passing by
yelling anti-smoking facts through a megaphone across the street from a cigarette plant
litterring the streets with moving toy babies and thus causing an inconvenience for all who walk by to illustrate the number of smoking deaths
standing on a busy sidewalk while wearing signs on their bodies with anti-smoking facts and hassling smokers that happen to walk by with questions about why they smoke


These are only the commercials I remember. Now, how are smokers portrayed? Just as men and women that are just minding their own business, not bothering anyone, when some asshat shows up and gets in their face when they're in a hurry to get to work, or trying to sleep, etc.

No wonder you hate The Truth campaign. I do too. My friends who do smoke have let me know that they just have to have a cig after watching one of those commercials, and my friends that don't point out that they almost want to just to stick it to those Truth jerks.

Don't be fooled.

Anyway, as far as smoking in comics is concerned, I don't mind it and can even admit that for some characters it does make sense as a part of their character. However, it needs to be portrayed as a vice of the character that makes them seem more human, and not an infallible do-gooder. Don't portray smoking as cool, or you will influence weaker minded children. I know that doesn't seem to apply to anyone in this thread, but let's try and remember that we aren't the people to worry about here.

[dingo]

Anyway, as far as smoking in comics is concerned, I don't mind it and can even admit that for some characters it does make sense as a part of their character. However, it needs to be portrayed as a vice of the character that makes them seem more human, and not an infallible do-gooder. Don't portray smoking as cool, or you will influence weaker minded children. I know that doesn't seem to apply to anyone in this thread, but let's try and remember that we aren't the people to worry about here.

Would be pretty hard to make a character look uncool when smoking but cool the rest of the time. And I really don't think that Marvel could justify the distinction if they got bad publicity from it.

[Torchbot]

Would be pretty hard to make a character look uncool when smoking but cool the rest of the time. And I really don't think that Marvel could justify the distinction if they got bad publicity from it.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, Marvel could have a character hack up a storm, contract lung cancer, or have a constant cycle of trying to quit but failing. None of those are all that heroic though, and would probably end up doing more harm than good for the character.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Now that the anti-smoke ban has been in effect for a while - and seem to be a success - I think it's time for Marvel to go a little further. Of course, as others have said in this thread, banning violence in comic books wouldn't be a very good idea, but I think Marvel could ban things like alcohol, SUVs and red meat. I think we can all agree that these things bad for your health and for the environement and I'm sure they don't add anything to any character.

[Torchbot]

Now that the anti-smoke ban has been in effect for a while - and seem to be a success - I think it's time for Marvel to go a little further. Of course, as others have said in this thread, banning violence in comic books wouldn't be a very good idea, but I think Marvel could ban things like alcohol, SUVs and red meat. I think we can all agree that these things bad for your health and for the environement and I'm sure they don't add anything to any character.

I disagree:

Children aren't going to be coerced into buying a $30,000+ vehicle regardless of how "cool" it seems.

Alcohol is often used and portrayed as a vice in the case of alcoholism, and never seems cool in that instance (sloppy movement, slurred speech, and just being a jerk aren't cool). On the other hand, you can't compare recreational drinking to smoking. You can be a consistent drinker (going out to a bar and having a few beers a week or so, or just relaxing with a beer after a hard day of work) without being addicted to alcohol or even ever drinking in excess. But you can't be a consistent smoker without becoming addicted. Alcohol and nicotine addiction work very differently.

Red meat is no more bad for you than eating any other high caloric, fatty food, and while it might make you fat, it certainly isn't addictive. Plus, for those that are trying to build muscle, red meat can be incorporated into their diet both as a means of gaining weight and to get plenty of protein. You can't gain muscle mass eating salad. :cool:

So, I don't think any of your examples are comparable to smoking.

[Novaya Havoc]

I know that I started smoking because Dazzler looked like such a badass with that cigarette in the Age of Apocalypse.

... I also got T-Mobile because I love Catherine Zeta-Jones.

C'est la vie.

[Nesteaman]

BUT (and here's the kicker) if just one kid doesn't pick up the nasty habit because he didn't see Wolverine smoking and MIGHT have been influenced... that would make it worth it. :)


When I was a kid I don't think I would have done something because Wolverine did it. :P but never know right.

[davros42]

What do you think kids are more likely to emulate: A "cool" Wolverine smoking and talking tough or the crazy Wolverine killing people left and right?

Kids read comics?

[The Shadow]

... I also got T-Mobile because I love Catherine Zeta-Jones.

Huh... same here.

[Nesteaman]

Kids read comics?

I had comic books when I was5 years old, I didn't read them so much, but I did have them.

[Doom Hammer]

I disagree:

Children aren't going to be coerced into buying a $30,000+ vehicle regardless of how "cool" it seems.

Alcohol is often used and portrayed as a vice in the case of alcoholism, and never seems cool in that instance (sloppy movement, slurred speech, and just being a jerk aren't cool). On the other hand, you can't compare recreational drinking to smoking. You can be a consistent drinker (going out to a bar and having a few beers a week or so, or just relaxing with a beer after a hard day of work) without being addicted to alcohol or even ever drinking in excess. But you can't be a consistent smoker without becoming addicted. Alcohol and nicotine addiction work very differently.

Red meat is no more bad for you than eating any other high caloric, fatty food, and while it might make you fat, it certainly isn't addictive. Plus, for those that are trying to build muscle, red meat can be incorporated into their diet both as a means of gaining weight and to get plenty of protein. You can't gain muscle mass eating salad. :cool:

So, I don't think any of your examples are comparable to smoking.

I think that's the point. He was being ironical.

The idea is, where do you draw the line? Do you portray super-heroes doing nothing questionable, ever? Make sure no one has any issues with anything in the comics? Nah, we call that DC. :D

[Torchbot]

I think that's the point. He was being ironical.

The idea is, where do you draw the line? Do you portray super-heroes doing nothing questionable, ever? Make sure no one has any issues with anything in the comics? Nah, we call that DC. :D

No, the line can be drawn quite easily. Nicotine, which is in tobacco products, is a highly physiologically addictive chemical. As such, portraying smoking to a young audience has to be handled very carefully, because once you're hooked on cigarettes, it is exceedingly difficult to quit. I'm not sure what sort of experience you have in that department, but it takes a lot more willpower and support to quit smoking than it does to cut back on eating fast food, to cut back on your drinking, or to not punch somebody in the face because they look at you funny. Hell, you can't really cut back on smoking, because the nicotine is just too addictive to use recreationally after you have kicked the addiction.

So, I don't believe it's fair to rely on a "slippery slope" argument to try and defend smoking in comics. The idea of "where does it stop" is not really an issue with me, because I'm telling you: it begins and ends with smoking. Well, okay, and all the already taboo subjects such as portraying illegal drug use, alcoholism, rape, pedophilia, et. al. as cool, but that really isn't an issue as those have always been taboo and aren't really at issue here.

[Gargus]

Can I ask you why?

I mean, what difference did it make?

Does it matter if Fury is smoking when he gives an order or kicks someone's ass? What's the appeal??

This ban's been in effect for over 5 years now... why not just... move on?

Well I for one miss when you could have a comic book or a movie and not worry about the PR to go along with it, not the cigarettes themselves. Its the principal of things that mainstream comics have to shy away from things in order to look good to make money. Used to cigarettes were seen all the time and now its practically something to be ashamed of or a moral crime.

And nick fury without the cigar is like nick fury without his eyepath. He smoked it where he wasnt supposed to and got crap for it from time to time and he wouldnt take it. It was a small part of his ireverance of authority held over him. The cigars were just as much part of his costume as his eyepatch, shield logo on his shoulder or the long forgotten needle gun he had.

[ednemo]

People smoke, usually to reduce stress. If you don't like it. Fine. But the reality is that people smoke. And therefore some stressed out comic characters would probably smoke as well. In the end it doesn't matter. There are plenty of Non-smoking messages out there, even in the comics. Morph from Exiles talked about it at length in one issue. But...Wolverine and Nick Fury smoke cigars and they always have. If kids want to act like their idols...well I think parenting comes into play at some point. They can also stop their kids from getting a stupid haircut and shooting germans with red hands.