Identity Crisis and JLA #4

[Francis]

In Identity Crisis, the problem was that the heroes had wiped the memories of the villains (and Batman's). J'onn seriously objected to this treatment, saying that it was a great crime. Yet in JLA #4, J'onn himself had wiped the minds of not half a dozen, but 70 enemies (White Martians) - not just stripping them of some memory, but stripping it all away and convincing them that they were humans.

How does he have a leg to stand on? (And that would have really given the heroes something to worry about had they undone their mindwipe - 70 highly annoyed White Martians).

[Jack Zodiac]

Welcome to the character conundrum that is Identity Crisis! ;)

[malephoenix]

Welcome to the continuity screw-up that is mainstream comic books.

[Fenix]

Welcome to post-COIE pre-IC, and THE MERRY FUTURE of DC :)

[titanfan]

How does he have a leg to stand on? (And that would have really given the heroes something to worry about had they undone their mindwipe - 70 highly annoyed White Martians).

He doesn't and it was brought up numerous times and debated after the mini-series.

[xnef1025]

White Martian scumbags ain't got no rights, so nothing was violated :D

[dreyga2000]

Jonn did explian it was how things were done on his planet and they are after all aliens

[ChthonicSpirit]

Jonn did explian it was how things were done on his planet and they are after all aliens

And its quite possible that he judges them by quite a different standard then he judges earth criminals.

[The Rusty Lantern]

I thought about this same thing when I read the IDENTITY CRISIS TPB. Did J'onn actually change the White Martians minds/personalities so much as supress them? Did they regain them at one point? I don't recall ...

[Paul Newell]

I thought about this same thing when I read the IDENTITY CRISIS TPB. Did J'onn actually change the White Martians minds/personalities so much as supress them? Did they regain them at one point? I don't recall ...
He only suppressed them. There were a couple of stories where one or two white martians regained their memories. There was a "No Man's Land" tie in issue of JLA where a one was impersonating Bruce Wayne, I think there was also a story during Mark Waid's run and a short story in one of the 80 page Giants.

[The Rusty Lantern]

Therefore, what J'onn did DIFFERS from the magical lobotomy that JLA did to Dr. Light and the others? Dr. Light only regained "himself" through a supernatural accident, right? Furthermore, the JLA was already wiping memories before, much like J'onn did-- it was with Dr. Light that they took a step further-- correct?

Just thinking out loud here ...

[Paul Newell]

Therefore, what J'onn did DIFFERS from the magical lobotomy that JLA did to Dr. Light and the others? Dr. Light only regained "himself" through a supernatural accident, right? Furthermore, the JLA was already wiping memories before, much like J'onn did-- it was with Dr. Light that they took a step further-- correct?

Just thinking out loud here ...
I think so, he didn't change their "personality". Only suppressed it and overlaid a new personilty over the surface.

And the JLA had mindwiped before, most particularly the Secret Society of Super-Villains. And even then it was only the knowledge of their secret identities. Hal Jordan was also an example used as regularly wiping minds. Interestingly enough, one point that I haven't seen raised before, is that he also performed a mindwipe at least once on himself and the JLA members in the early days. I'll try and find the story but it was back when the JLA kept their identities secret from each other. Off the top of my head I think it was a story where the JLA were exiled from Earth and had to solve the case in their secret identities.

[Paul Newell]

Just checked and it was JLoA #19. Dr Destiny created Materioptikon versions of the League, only evil. The duplicate League "disabled" the real League members , then commited crimes in their place. When the real Leaguers woke up, the court system found them guilty and exiled them from Earth. The real League reveal their secret identities to each other then go back and clear their name. In the process the entire world learns their identities, so to protect those close to them, Superman uses Amnesium to wipe the knowledge from everyones memories, including the other Leaguers.

[shyguy]

The thing about the mindwipes that people tend to overlook is that nobody in Infinite Crisis really had a problem with the League just erasing memories until they did it to Batman.

What everyone had a problem with is that the League was coercing Zatanna into making fundamental changes to the villains' personalities, which robs them of free will and basically makes the JLA into a bunch of mental rapists. Of course, the JLA's initial decision didn't seem to make any sense to me and was one of the many leaps of logic that characters in the story take that totally baffle me, but whatever.

What J'onn did sounds an awful lot like the second thing, so he doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on.

[OzBat!]

J'onn also didn't take his decision lightly, AND insisted that he make it alone, so that it wasn't on the other Leaguer's consciences. He knew it was a bad thing to do. Much like Superman with the pocket universe Krypton criminals, it was a terrible decision to make, but the alternative was worse.

In silver age stories, they wiped villains memories all the time, especially GL with his ring. They had no problems with the memory wipe. This was the difference they were setting up with identity crisis: that Doctor Light was the first time they tried personality modification.

[BoSoxJay]

An army of White Martians with Superman-level powers on the loose is much different than Dr. Light or Captain Boomerang. Even in the kinder DCU of today I could still buy J’onn mindwiping the White Martians next issue if he had to and see no hero having a problem with it.

[PastePotPete]

I'm one of these people who thinks the general comic-reading public holds too tightly to continuity.

A writer's job is to give you a good story that follows its own internal logic. When writing characters that are also franchises, (any character in the DCU for example) a writer should key in to what is already cool about that character or the fans won't like it and the story won't work (see Ang Lee's Hulk movie for an example of NOT using the character's core concepts).

Why was it okay for J'Onn to mindwipe White Martians in JLA#4 but not okay for Zatanna to do it to villains in Identity Crisis?

Because the first story was written by Grant Morrison and the second story was written by Brad Meltzer. And I like them both.

And I really don't think any further explanation needs given.