Detective Comics #822

[Nick Kal]

Another stellar issue from Dini. This time The Riddler is featured, but he's actually trying to work as a sort of private investigator now. Solving riddles, if you will. Batman mentions that he spent part of the past year in a coma and no longer knew Batman's true identity (he did at the end of Hush).

Batman basically solves a murder mystery with Riddler falling for clues laid out by him while Batman goes far beyond the planted clues and actually solves the mystery.

I don't want to ruin the entire issue, so I'll leave it at that.

Only thing is, Dini said that the stories might not be as stand alone as we think... so what clues are there?

[Gandt]

Does J.H. Williams III do the art on this issue as well? I know Dini and Williams said he was going to miss some issues so that he could do Seven Soldiers #1, but I wasn't sure if he drew this issue. Thanks for the teaser.

[Nick Kal]

Nah, I don't think so.

[Choppa]

Batman mentions that he spent part of the past year in a coma and no longer knew Batman's true identity (he did at the end of Hush).



What the hell! All that build up to make Eddie a real threat and in one stroke it's gone. Along with Harvey's return to Two-Face, this is another wasted subplot that had potential to be something interesting. I guess even DC doesn't like HUSH.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Dini's mystery was well crafted and a delight to read. I'm glad that Batman wasn't shown up in his own title and that Dini is bringing back the Dectective back to Detective Comics.

[OverMaster]

What the hell! All that build up to make Eddie a real threat and in one stroke it's gone. Along with Harvey's return to Two-Face, this is another wasted subplot that had potential to be something interesting. I guess even DC doesn't like HUSH.

Hm. Is it clear that coma was real? Could it be that Eddie somehow faked the event so he could trick Batman later on?

Because I don't see Dini doing such a revamp of the character without having some kind of plan for him through his run, especially since his stories won't be so self contained after all.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Hm. Is it clear that coma was real? Could it be that Eddie somehow faked the event so he could trick Batman later on?

Because I don't see Dini doing such a revamp of the character without having some kind of plan for him through his run, especially since his stories won't be so self contained after all.

Definitely see that as a twist to Dini's run. Maybe, he's setting Bats up with a gang up by all his old rogues. Making Batman think that Two-Face is gone, that the Riddler is a glory hound detective wannabe and so on. I just see a Battle Royale coming at the end of Dini's run.

[literally exaggerated]

I'm really liking this run so far. Story after story of Batman proving why he's the world's greatest detective. There were basically no fights to speak of in this issue and I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

[lonewolf23k]

What the hell! All that build up to make Eddie a real threat and in one stroke it's gone. Along with Harvey's return to Two-Face, this is another wasted subplot that had potential to be something interesting. I guess even DC doesn't like HUSH.

I wouldn't be so sure Eddie has really forgotten Bat's true identity.. When publically analyzing Bruce Wayne's physique to prove he wasn't the man in the photo, there was some subtext to his words that implied something more..

...As if he was sizing up Bruce Wayne to see how different he seemed from Batman.

[Steve Brady]

What the hell! All that build up to make Eddie a real threat and in one stroke it's gone. Along with Harvey's return to Two-Face, this is another wasted subplot that had potential to be something interesting. I guess even DC doesn't like HUSH.

That's what happens when Shining Knight hits you in the face with her mace. You sleep for a year and forget stuff. At least it wasn't Superboy punching the walls of reality.


Really, though, he can obviously regain the memory at any time (or may already have, as others have pointed out).

[Choppa]

Well I haven't read the issue so I can't comment on how accurate his loss of memory seems.

As for him remembering Steve, the way he found out was so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised if he did remember in an equally ridiculous way.

Maybe he'll fall down the stairs and have another vision a la HUSH.

[stillanerd]

What the hell! All that build up to make Eddie a real threat and in one stroke it's gone. Along with Harvey's return to Two-Face, this is another wasted subplot that had potential to be something interesting. I guess even DC doesn't like HUSH.

Sounds like something happened during 52 that we need to know about. And I agree that the Riddler no longer knowing Bruce Wayne is Batman does seem like a real loss of interesting plots that could've been made with that. Then again, maybe DC and Dini figured that it actually limited the Riddler, in that once a supervillain knows the heroes identity, there's not many places you can go with the villain except amnesia or death (although it never seemed to be a problem for using Ra's Al Ghul). And while the idea of the Riddler being a "rival" detective to Batman, and that rather than planting riddles he tries to solve them before Batman does, it's, what? the thrid revamp of the character over the last two years?

[Violently Apathetic]

Then again, maybe DC and Dini figured that it actually limited the Riddler, in that once a supervillain knows the heroes identity, there's not many places you can go with the villain except amnesia or death (although it never seemed to be a problem for using Ra's Al Ghul).

Ordinarily I'd agree, but with the Riddler you get the benefit of a character who is not so much interested in brutally killing Batman and all those he holds dear (unless he's in a REALLY bad mood) but rather someone who is more interested in challanging him intellectually. The Riddler isn't likely to turn up at Wayne Manor and decapitate Alfred or something (actually Alfred could probably take him) but at worst blackmail Bruce into trying to get him to play their little game.

It's a moot point though as it sounds like he's forgotten again anyway (nice, DC, nice)

Anyway, I am really looking forward to this issue (so much so that I put Tec' comics on my pull list for the first time and am likely to pull it off as soon as Dini leaves) but I won't be getting it for a few weeks. That being the case I wouldn't mind more detailed spoilers if anyone is willing to post them behind tags...?

[Gingold]

I think Dini left it intentionally open-ended as to whether or not the Riddler has forgotten Batman's secret ID.

This was another good issue. Kramer's art was good, but he's no Williams. Hurry back JH!

[Steve Brady]

Really, the hard thing to believe is that Riddler is even alive after, again, taking it in the face from Ystin's mace.

So once you get past that...

[banana91]

Spolier I guess




I am utterly amazed that only one other person noticed this line.

Riddler: "And the facial features and physique, while similar, are more sharply defined in person than in..."

Bruce: "What?"

Riddler: Hmm? Oh, a passing resemblance to something else, I'm sorry."

Now I do not know what else he could possibly mean besides comparing Bruce to Batman. If anyone has any explanations to the contrary I would love to hear them.

[Nick Kal]

Spolier I guess




I am utterly amazed that only one other person noticed this line.

Riddler: "And the facial features and physique, while similar, are more sharply defined in person than in..."

Bruce: "What?"

Riddler: Hmm? Oh, a passing resemblance to something else, I'm sorry."

Now I do not know what else he could possibly mean besides comparing Bruce to Batman. If anyone has any explanations to the contrary I would love to hear them.

Well yeah, it was a nice little line that suggests Riddler was thinking it.

[ForEverAncien]

And the Riddler does think a lot.

[Sean Whitmore]

Fantastic issue. I love the "Riddler as competitor" idea SO much that I quickly got over my initial annoyance that Riddler was back to normal.

To be fair, him going into a coma and forgetting his revamp is as good a way to do so as any. Still, Shane Mcarthy must be a little depressed.

I wonder if Green Arrow will ever return to get revenge for the brutal ass-kicking revamped Riddler handed him a couple years ago, only to find out he's back to being a doofus? :)

BTW, am I alone in wanting to see an Echo & Query mini series detailing their adventures at Pandora's Box? :D Like hell I am.


SEAN

[Joe Rice]

Another solid story, but this time with awful, pedestrian art. Ugh, what a disappointment overall.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Spolier I guess




I am utterly amazed that only one other person noticed this line.

Riddler: "And the facial features and physique, while similar, are more sharply defined in person than in..."

Bruce: "What?"

Riddler: Hmm? Oh, a passing resemblance to something else, I'm sorry."

Now I do not know what else he could possibly mean besides comparing Bruce to Batman. If anyone has any explanations to the contrary I would love to hear them.



Sort of spoilers...don't read on if you don't know.











Didn't Riddler work out that Bruce was Batman during Hush?

[PastePotPete]

Hey, when did Riddler get hit in the face by Shining Knight's mace? Was that in Shining Knight?

Also: Last I remember seeing the Riddler he was on top of a building in Gotham during IC screaming "GOTHAM IS GONNA BURN!!!!!" or something to that affect. Was this before, after, or during his coma?

I like Riddler as a competitor. The revamp is a little jarring for me after Hush and other portrayals of the character, but it's still kinda cool.

[MrBeebs37]

I'm kind of surprised that the reviews of this issue have been so positive. I'll play bad guy I guess.

First off, like one poster already mentioned, the art was somewhere between bland and just bad, and it really showed the cracks in the writing. I didn't think the writing on the last issue was amazing, but good enough for a return visit to the title. After reading this one however, I realized just how much of the quality came from the artist.

To me, this felt like one of those continuity/consequence-free filler issues that all editors keep in their desk drawers in case the real writers of their books missed deadlines or something. Nothing of any importance happened, the mystery was completely unengaging, and the pacing had a strange abruptness to it. Beyond the somewhat new role for the Riddler (which I honestly don't expect to ever see mentioned again) there wasn't anything in this book to keep my attention.

I re-read the first issue of the Dini run and have to say that in hindsight, that story seemed better only because JH Williams was drawing it. The actual narrative was just as boring and forgetable, and there seemed to be a sort of desperation in the art, where Williams was scrounging around for something interesting to draw.

I was also put off, and I'm not completely sure why as it's nothing new, by the brutal beating that Batman gave to the first murder suspect. It just came off as over the top irresposible. I mean, Batman wasn't even all that sure that the guy did it. And then he destroyed some other guy's bar because he wanted to know if someone had been there before. Last week people complained in other threads about Batman throwing Joker in a garbage bin, but it's this sort of thing that seems off to me.

Not sure I'll be back for another issue, though JH's art might sway me.

[literally exaggerated]

To me, this felt like one of those continuity/consequence-free filler issues that all editors keep in their desk drawers in case the real writers of their books missed deadlines or something. Nothing of any importance happened, the mystery was completely unengaging, and the pacing had a strange abruptness to it.

Um, you do realize that from now on Detective Comics is telling stand-alone, self-contained (i.e. not at all decompressed) detective stories mostly free from continuity, right?

[MrBeebs37]

Well, I do realize that they are done in one stories, but they most certainly are in continuity as well, otherwise why bring up the Riddler forgetting who Batman is angle?

I'm sorry, but Batman fighting regular joes and embezzling mistresses is just not very memorable and doesn't create any real tension. Done in one stories, even out of continuity ones, can be great for defining who and what characters are and offering up succinct and satisfying little action bits. This book did none of that for me.

The point of the statement you quoted was that the story read like a back-up, not a main story.

[Jkid099]

Hey, when did Riddler get hit in the face by Shining Knight's mace? Was that in Shining Knight?

Also: Last I remember seeing the Riddler he was on top of a building in Gotham during IC screaming "GOTHAM IS GONNA BURN!!!!!" or something to that affect. Was this before, after, or during his coma?

I like Riddler as a competitor. The revamp is a little jarring for me after Hush and other portrayals of the character, but it's still kinda cool.

The Riddler on top of a building in Gotham City was in Infinite Crisis #1. Him getting the crap kicked out of him and hit in the head with a mace by the Shining Knight was during the Battle for Metropolis in Infinite Crisis #7.

[Tomodachi]

I'm really enjoying these stand alone Dini 'tec stories. Continuity free or "semi-continuity free" is fine by me for these types of stories.

I thought it was funny that Roxy Rocket from B:TAS made an appearance. At first I thought, ugh please don't let her be a main part of the story. Fortunately she was just on one page so I got a kick out of it.

[OverMaster]

To me, this felt like one of those continuity/consequence-free filler issues that all editors keep in their desk drawers in case the real writers of their books missed deadlines or something. Nothing of any importance happened, the mystery was completely unengaging, and the pacing had a strange abruptness to it. Beyond the somewhat new role for the Riddler (which I honestly don't expect to ever see mentioned again) there wasn't anything in this book to keep my attention.

Not every issue can be a status quo shocker, you know. That kind of thinking is what made most comics to be shock value-relying and hard to follow in the first place.

[MrBeebs37]

Again, I'm not talking about a lack of continuity being my reason for not liking it, I'm talking about nothing of interest happening. I found no reason to care about who killed whoever it was that got killed, nor did I find any compelling adversaries or plot points. It was a flat plot with stock characters and nothing of visual or intellectual interest for the main character to do. Just presenting a self-contained mystery does not a great, classic Batman story make.

[Pyro]

First off, like one poster already mentioned, the art was somewhere between bland and just bad, and it really showed the cracks in the writing. I didn't think the writing on the last issue was amazing, but good enough for a return visit to the title. After reading this one however, I realized just how much of the quality came from the artist.

I re-read the first issue of the Dini run and have to say that in hindsight, that story seemed better only because JH Williams was drawing it. The actual narrative was just as boring and forgetable, and there seemed to be a sort of desperation in the art, where Williams was scrounging around for something interesting to draw.
I agree, I really enjoyed the issue with JH's art, but I didn't like this one at all. Kramer's art really turns me off. His characters look so bland and saggy for some reason. I usually enjoy Paul Dini's work, but I just couldn't get into this story whereas the last issue was nothing spectacular but still enjoyable. The art really did seem to enhance the story. I really like JH's art. Does anyone know exactly which issues he'll be drawing? I hope it's a large amount of them.

[Choppa]

So what's the final word? Is 'Tec supposed to be in-continuity from now on or not? I don't remember ever hearing anything official being said about this. If you're going on the fact that they are single issue stories, then that's certainly not reliable proof that these aren't canon.

[Damo]

So what's the final word? Is 'Tec supposed to be in-continuity from now on or not? I don't remember ever hearing anything official being said about this. If you're going on the fact that they are single issue stories, then that's certainly not reliable proof that these aren't canon.

You can be continuity-free but still canon. What people meant when they said 'tec is mostly continuity free is that there is that you could read 822 before 821, and similar, without it usually affecting your understanding of the stories. Which makes sense, if I read Agatha Christy or watch a Perry Mason, I want everything I need to appreciate the detective story right there, not in previous material.

I'm surprised at the negative reactions to having the Riddler apparently forget Bruce's identity. After Hush that should have made him a threat again, but instead we got Lieberman's dreadful story making the Riddler a joke again. Maybe Dini could have kept that element, but I see the logic in making a clear break from the mess that Lieberman turned Hush into (although I maintain that it was a mess from the start).

Loved the Riddler's bit educating Batman that you don't need to be a criminal to have handcuff scars. Heh.

[Duy]

Also remember that they're re-establishing the Bat-continuity. Some elements are being swept away, some are being brought back. Detective Comics is canon simply, for me, because Detective Comics is Detective Comics.

[Sean Whitmore]

"Mostly free from continuity" does not mean "not canon". It just means that the stories don't rely heavily on past stories. Simple as that. This has been a Public Service Announcement from the Department of Agriculture.


SEAN

[Chad]

Regarding Riddler not knowing Batman's identity anymore, it could be that Dini simply felt that it's an unworkable premise for the character - which it is. Out of all of Batman's enemies, the Riddler is the one who would use this knowledge quickest. His entire motivation is to outwit Batman and prove to Gotham that he's smarter than him. Revealing Batman's true identity to the world is to the Riddler what ending all crime would be to Batman. This story wouldn't have worked if Riddler were the type of person who didn't want to show off how smart he is. So, to tell a story about the Riddler wanting to one-up Batman doesn't work with a Riddler who's already done just that and simply doesn't care.

[MikeK]

Oh I just loved this issue. The "reformed" Riddler playing detective. Riddler getting one up on Batman. Riddler actually being used as a distraction. Riddler finding out Batman beat him... again. He didn't look happy about it. Batman being an actual detective instead of damn super hero. Enough with the meta Bat. Please give me more of this BatMAN. I also enjoyed the art on this issue just fine.

[stealthwise]

Roxy Rocket! Yeah!

The story was great, but the art... well, it was just this side of gross. The women have huge chests, the faces seem a bit off, but on the bright side, it wasn't as bad as Kramer's opening chapter of "Face the Face."

[Choppa]

Instead of sweeping these loose ends under the rug, y not explore them? Sheesh.

And is it just me or does it not feel like a year has passed in the bat-universe? I mean Alfred isn't like "Hey Master Bruce good to see you again" and none of the media are like "Bruce Wayne has returned from a year's absense" and none of the crooks are like "OMG Batman's back!" You get the idea.

[The Shadow]

Instead of sweeping these loose ends under the rug, y not explore them? Sheesh.
... why should Dini have to clean up other writers mess's?

And is it just me or does it not feel like a year has passed in the bat-universe?
It does to me. Batman is totally different (for the better!)

I mean Alfred isn't like "Hey Master Bruce good to see you again" and none of the media are like "Bruce Wayne has returned from a year's absense" and none of the crooks are like "OMG Batman's back!" You get the idea.
Probably because they come back sometime during 52. And didn't Gordon and everyone make reference to Batman's return during the first issue of Robinsons run? what did you want? A party? The crooks had Harvey to worry about. Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham for extended periods isn't that uncommon either.

And regarding Alfred... because we don't know what happened in the missing year it's possible Bruce may have been away, but in constant contact with Alfred because of Harvey's year as Gotham's guardian.

Jesus man... you really have issues with the stand alone format, Dini's writing and the whole continuity/not continuity thing.

Why don't you give Detective a rest and try some other books? You'll probably not have the same bitter taste in your mouth after spending $3.00 and reading a book you KNOW you aren't going to like.

[Choppa]

... why should Dini have to clean up other writers mess's?


It does to me. Batman is totally different (for the better!)


Probably because they come back sometime during 52. And didn't Gordon and everyone make reference to Batman's return during the first issue of Robinsons run? what did you want? A party? The crooks had Harvey to worry about. Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham for extended periods isn't that uncommon either.

And regarding Alfred... because we don't know what happened in the missing year it's possible Bruce may have been away, but in constant contact with Alfred because of Harvey's year as Gotham's guardian.

Jesus man... you really have issues with the stand alone format, Dini's writing and the whole continuity/not continuity thing.

Why don't you give Detective a rest and try some other books? You'll probably not have the same bitter taste in your mouth after spending $3.00 and reading a book you KNOW you aren't going to like.


Honestly I forgot about 52, so forget that I said that. As for Dini cleaning up other writer's messes, I didn't really mean to single out Dini specifically, more at DC in general. I realize I prolly shouldn't have said it in here, but that's just was I was thinking when reading this thread.

[MrBeebs37]

People that like the Dini run really need to stop attacking those of us that don't by saying we don't like/get the done-in-one in/out of continuity approach. IT. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. THAT. It's just a matter of boring, unengaging stories not doing it for us.

Rather than picking and choosing pieces or our critiques of the issue and attacking them out of context, why don't you give full, reasoned reviews for why you think these are good stories? Try retorting to nay-sayers that way.

[Ripper]

Im happy to have had two issues of Detective in a row that have actually being about batman doing some great detective work.

[The Shadow]

Rather than picking and choosing pieces or our critiques of the issue and attacking them out of context, why don't you give full, reasoned reviews for why you think these are good stories? Try retorting to nay-sayers that way.
Like your indepth critique of "It's just a matter of boring, unengaging stories not doing it for us."

How about mine: "They are exciting stories that have a fresh feel to them as they aren't reliant on past stories, the characterization is spot on and Dini is a damn fine mystery writer!"

[The Shadow]

Im happy to have had two issues of Detective in a row that have actually being about batman doing some great detective work.
It's weird isn't it?!?!

But weird in a good way! :D

[Rokk]

I thought Dini turned in another great issue. I like how Dini plays up the detective side of Batman. I also enjoyed the "team up" between Riddler and Batman. I enjoyed Riddler in this role rather than being a villain. Kramer's art was solid. He certainly can draw a nice Batman.

[Expletive Deleted]

Im happy to have had two issues of Detective in a row that have actually being about batman doing some great detective work.Exactly.

I wasn't thrilled with Kramer (especially his Riddler), but he didn't interfere with the story. Which is really all I ask, most of the time.

I haven't followed the Bat-books in a while, so the whole "does he know"/continuity thing is kind of superfluous to me. This is a great take on the Riddler, and opens up more interesting avenues for him than going all Norman Osborne.

And Dini's Batman! He solves mysteries, scares bad guys, and kicks ass, all while still being a decent human being underneath. As far as I'm concerned, this is just an artistic change or two away from being the real All-Star Batman.

If Morrison can deliver the thrills and craziness that've been promised (and hopefully adequately set up by that somewhat bland first issue) and Dini can keep focusing on pure Batman-ness . . . I'll almost be ready to forgive DC for the last year of continuity-crossover hell. Almost.

[Sean Walsh]

To be fair, him going into a coma and forgetting his revamp is as good a way to do so as any. Still, Shane Mcarthy must be a little depressed.

If Mr. McCarthy should be depressed about anything, it should be because of Judd Winick's GREEN ARROW story (circa #50) that - with lousy art and not a good story - ruined the cool Riddler revamp (for me and many others) completely.

I consider Riddle Me This, as a result, a typical but awesome LOTDK story: not really in continuity and (I guess) largely ignorable by other writers in the other books. I reiterate, however: AWESOME. :)

[OverMaster]

People that like the Dini run really need to stop attacking those of us that don't by saying we don't like/get the done-in-one in/out of continuity approach. IT. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. THAT. It's just a matter of boring, unengaging stories not doing it for us.

The problem is you are doing it even worse, just stating the stories are boring because that's your opinion and that's it.

I think you are narrowing it too much to your own subjective viewpoint. What can be boring for you can be exciting for others. Deal with it.

[Pyro]

And Dini's Batman! He solves mysteries, scares bad guys, and kicks ass, all while still being a decent human being underneath. As far as I'm concerned, this is just an artistic change or two away from being the real All-Star Batman.
I agree, and while I don't read All-Star Batman, I'm well aware of how bad it is. But your post reminded me of one of the funniest things in the issue. Batman was being all batmanlike, and then after he hurt the guy he was intimidating, he gave him a bandage! I thought that was kind of funny. I don't know if I'd call it OOC or not, but it was interesting thing to add none the less.

[Loren]

Fantastic issue. I love the "Riddler as competitor" idea SO much that I quickly got over my initial annoyance that Riddler was back to normal.

I finally bought this issue today, and after reading it and looking over this here thread, there's something I'm surprised no one's observed yet.

Dini's treatment of the Riddler in this issue (which I love) picks up on a loose thread left by Ty Templeton in the last "Batman Adventures" series.

First off, I'm of the opinion that nobody writes a better Riddler than Ty. And in the last BA series, Ty made the move of having the Riddler go straight. I don't think he got to the point of setting up a private firm, but in more than one story, Batman used him as a hired private investigator. I think he appeared in 3 BA issues in all (#2, 11, and 12). Here (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/tnba/guides/ba/12a.jpg) is an unused cover that shows how he dressed at the time.

And where did Ty leave Nigma at the end of #12? In a coma.

His plan (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1238338&postcount=40) was to tell a story in the next arc where Eddie would wake up with amnesia, thus forcing him to ask the "ultimate riddle": Who am I? But the series got cancelled (in favor of "The Batman Strikes!"), and the story never got told.

So now it seems that Dini, being part of the brains behind BTAS, decided to play out the Riddler's BTAS character arc in the mainstream DCU. And I like it.

However, I gotta say that I don't like the purple sunglasses. I assume Kramer was trying to avoid putting Eddie in a domino mask, but he really just should have left his face exposed, as he did at the end.

[Fatguy]

Oh man, this issue was great. I missed the first Dini issue and after reading this, it would seem I made a mistake :mad:

Loved the dialogue, the scene with Riddler riding shotgun in the Batmobile, completely priceless. Speaking of priceless, the cover art is soooo freaking fantastic. Makes me want to rip the cover off and pin it to my wall.

[Ripper]

I much prefer Batman as a 'detective with other skills' like how Dini writes him then as a 'hero who can do detective work' as he usually is portrayed. I also like how Dini is seperating the dichotomy of Bruce Wayne and Batman. They really feel like opposite sides of the same coin in these stories as opposed to two different men altogether. The best thing to happen is for Dini to stay on this book for years, or for other writers to take heed from what Dini is doing.

[xnef1025]

I agree, and while I don't read All-Star Batman, I'm well aware of how bad it is. But your post reminded me of one of the funniest things in the issue. Batman was being all batmanlike, and then after he hurt the guy he was intimidating, he gave him a bandage! I thought that was kind of funny. I don't know if I'd call it OOC or not, but it was interesting thing to add none the less.
That's why I love these issues and Dini's take on Batman. Batman will beat a guy up for info, then give him a bandage when he's ready to talk, but the bad guys still know it's not because Bats is soft, but because unconcious stoolies can't sing.

It was also great when Eddie was trying to school Batman on Gotham's S&M scene, and it turned out the only reason Bats didn't think of it was because he didn't know about the new tunnel from the Treasure Chest and was actually really well aquainted with the owner.

Finally the Batmobile scene:

RIDDLER: So... Nice Car. First time I've been inside it conscious.

BATMAN: Don't touch anything.

BWAH!!

Oh yeah. On rereading, did anyone else catch what costume the "celebrity impersonator" had been using for that bachelorette party he'd just gotten back from? :D

[Pyro]

I finally bought this issue today, and after reading it and looking over this here thread, there's something I'm surprised no one's observed yet.

Dini's treatment of the Riddler in this issue (which I love) picks up on a loose thread left by Ty Templeton in the last "Batman Adventures" series.

First off, I'm of the opinion that nobody writes a better Riddler than Ty. And in the last BA series, Ty made the move of having the Riddler go straight. I don't think he got to the point of setting up a private firm, but in more than one story, Batman used him as a hired private investigator. I think he appeared in 3 BA issues in all (#2, 11, and 12). Here (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/tnba/guides/ba/12a.jpg) is an unused cover that shows how he dressed at the time.

And where did Ty leave Nigma at the end of #12? In a coma.

His plan (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1238338&postcount=40) was to tell a story in the next arc where Eddie would wake up with amnesia, thus forcing him to ask the "ultimate riddle": Who am I? But the series got cancelled (in favor of "The Batman Strikes!"), and the story never got told.

So now it seems that Dini, being part of the brains behind BTAS, decided to play out the Riddler's BTAS character arc in the mainstream DCU. And I like it.
I noticed that, but I didn't realize exactly how close of a portrayal it was. I didn't remember Riddler being left off in a coma. But that's really cool. I like it too. Do you know who was supposed to die at the end of the series? I don't think anyone did IIRC.

Oh yeah. On rereading, did anyone else catch what costume the "celebrity impersonator" had been using for that bachelorette party he'd just gotten back from? :DNo, I didn't really get that. But now that I'm thinking about it, did he impersonate Batman?
EDIT: Stupid me, yeah I get it now. I couldn't make out what was in the bag until I looked really hard. It would have been funny if I had caught it the first time. :(

[The Shadow]

I finally bought this issue today, and after reading it and looking over this here thread, there's something I'm surprised no one's observed yet.

Dini's treatment of the Riddler in this issue (which I love) picks up on a loose thread left by Ty Templeton in the last "Batman Adventures" series.

First off, I'm of the opinion that nobody writes a better Riddler than Ty. And in the last BA series, Ty made the move of having the Riddler go straight. I don't think he got to the point of setting up a private firm, but in more than one story, Batman used him as a hired private investigator. I think he appeared in 3 BA issues in all (#2, 11, and 12). Here (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/tnba/guides/ba/12a.jpg) is an unused cover that shows how he dressed at the time.

And where did Ty leave Nigma at the end of #12? In a coma.

His plan (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1238338&postcount=40) was to tell a story in the next arc where Eddie would wake up with amnesia, thus forcing him to ask the "ultimate riddle": Who am I? But the series got cancelled (in favor of "The Batman Strikes!"), and the story never got told.

So now it seems that Dini, being part of the brains behind BTAS, decided to play out the Riddler's BTAS character arc in the mainstream DCU. And I like it.

However, I gotta say that I don't like the purple sunglasses. I assume Kramer was trying to avoid putting Eddie in a domino mask, but he really just should have left his face exposed, as he did at the end.
Thanks for the info Loren!

I added it to my comic database on this issue.

Is this Roxy Rocket's first comic appearance too? I thought that was GREAT!

[TheTen-EyedMan]

I much prefer Batman as a 'detective with other skills' like how Dini writes him then as a 'hero who can do detective work' as he usually is portrayed. I also like how Dini is seperating the dichotomy of Bruce Wayne and Batman. They really feel like opposite sides of the same coin in these stories as opposed to two different men altogether. The best thing to happen is for Dini to stay on this book for years, or for other writers to take heed from what Dini is doing.

I'm just glad he's not an urban commando like he's been protrayed in the past. God I hated that title.

[Sean Whitmore]

Is this Roxy Rocket's first comic appearance too? I thought that was GREAT!


First in the DCU. She actually appeared in Batman Adventures before ever appearing on the animated series. :)


SEAN

[The Shadow]

First in the DCU. She actually appeared in Batman Adventures before ever appearing on the animated series. :)
Thanks Sean.

[carabas]

Sorry, but Dini's Detective Comics so far has been less than impressive.

Sure, there is good art and decent characterisations to enjoy. The books are not totally without merit.

They're just not terribly well written.
Dini's giving us detective stories. Problem here is, he is not very good at crafting detective stories.

Detective stories require clues, plausible motives, red harrings and such for the reader to work it out for himself.
Dini does not do this. What he does is have Batman solve the mystery with clues that the reader isn't privy to.
Or worse, through a wild series of leaps of logic.

I mean, in #821, his main, scratch that, his only clue that F+acade was actually the busboy, was that the busboy was strong enough to carry a man. A trait that most busboys share, I think.

And in #822, the killer turned out to be someone who hadn't even appeared in the story.
Also, finding a bloody scarf with some brown hair on it, and leaping to the conclusion that it must be the untill then unmentioned secretary of thr victim's uncle, that's Charles Xavier method of detective work. Especially since said secretary was a redhead.

[Loren]

[QUOTE=carabasAnd in #822, the killer turned out to be someone who hadn't even appeared in the story.
Also, finding a bloody scarf with some brown hair on it, and leaping to the conclusion that it must be the untill then unmentioned secretary of thr victim's uncle, that's Charles Xavier method of detective work. Especially since said secretary was a redhead.[/QUOTE]

She hadn't appeared, no, but she *had* been mentioned. She was the person that Riddler called when he and Batman came across the 'suicide.'

Read Riddler's phone conversation with her again. It displays a different meaning when you realize that she was en route away from the scene of the 'suicide' at the time.