New Excalibur #10 review and spoilers

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

from the Nexus (http://comicsnexus.insidepulse.com/articles/50066):

New Excalibur #10
Marvel
Writer: Frank Tieri
Artists: Michael Ryan

Review Content: Have you heard of 'New' Excalibur? Vol. 4 or so, published monthly from Marvel Comics?

Right, right. Do you know what it's about?

What is that? A London-based team of X-Men, led by Captain Britain?

Well, guess again. If the first two issues by new writer Frank Tieri are any indication this is the new spotlight title for UK-born Marvel characters.

Much like last issue, Tieri remains oblivious to the fact he's been hired to write an ensemble book, and instead focuses the entire issue on the Avenger Black Knight and his lineage. The Black Knight has converted his ancestral castle into a museum for the Black Knight legacy (the first superhero tribute museum in the Marvel U belongs to the Black Knight? sheesh!), showcasing the mummified remains of his ancestor, the first Black Knight. The issue in fact opens with a flashback to the early 6th century with the latter's quest to retrieve Excalibur after the destruction of Camelot, which ends in his corruption, and a bridge into current continuity!

The actual Excalibur team act as guest-stars in their own book with a brief cameo towards the end of the issue, again. I recognise the practice to devote an issue for the introduction of a new team member (as Black Knight is hinted to be), but it doesn't make sense to me to produce two such issues in a row, especially a writer's first two issues on a new title where the reader is expecting him to show his take on the existing cast. To me these issues feel like filler/archive stories that Tieri has already written and had to shoehorn into Excalibur at a minute'snotice when he was approached to fill in after Claremont's abrupt temporary retirement.

Grade: F

[The Sword Is Drawn]

As posted before, over and over again, Tieri has made ir pretty clear that he can't really touch any of the characters of New Excalibur ecause he's not allowed to tamper with Claremont's existing plans for his characters.

I find it disappointing, as yes it seems to be leaduing towards New Excalibur become guest stars in their own book, but at the same point the Black Knight has a long history with Captain Britain, was a member of the shortlived Excalibur of volume 2, and an obvious choice to have been offered as a new character for Claremont if he wants him, upon his return.

This is part 1 of 3. Excalibur will be playing a greater part in the other two parts of this arc - I hope. But to write of a set up issue, which introduces a new character to the series, who has barely been seen in the Marvel universe over the last five years, as bad for trying to set up a larger story seems an odd choice.

One might also argue that it comes off as journalist spending more time trying to enjoy the sound of his own words than actually trying to understand the story, and the reason for its being.

I do worry about the issue, which should be through my mail box on Thursday in the UK, as the last issue, while not wholly terrible didn't actually seem to go anywhere. It seemed to want to, but without an extended run for Tieri on New Excalibur I don't think it ever will go any further than one average story.

I was confused as to Tieri's initial choice as fill in writer, but had been inspired a little by his newsarama interview, in which he did seem to have some good ideas. I just await to see if they get executed as well as they should.

I miss Claremont. I really wish we knew for certain when he would actually be returning.

[Dioces]

I'll still pick up the issue....I wish Tieri would've continued on with Chamber instead of jumping into a new storyline, which may or may not be finished by Claremont. Personally I would've just stuck with self-contained issues while awaiting his return..

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

As posted before, over and over again, Tieri has made ir pretty clear that he can't really touch any of the characters of New Excalibur ecause he's not allowed to tamper with Claremont's existing plans for his characters.

I find it disappointing, as yes it seems to be leaduing towards New Excalibur become guest stars in their own book, but at the same point the Black Knight has a long history with Captain Britain, was a member of the shortlived Excalibur of volume 2, and an obvious choice to have been offered as a new character for Claremont if he wants him, upon his return.

This is part 1 of 3. Excalibur will be playing a greater part in the other two parts of this arc - I hope. But to write of a set up issue, which introduces a new character to the series, who has barely been seen in the Marvel universe over the last five years, as bad for trying to set up a larger story seems an odd choice.

One might also argue that it comes off as journalist spending more time trying to enjoy the sound of his own words than actually trying to understand the story, and the reason for its being.

.

I reviewed the issue based on its own merits, I have no idea if the team will play a more prominent role in the next issues. I only know that for the last two issues they have only had cameo roles, and that's what I commented on. If Frank Tieri isn't allowed to use the eXcalibur characters he shouldn't be writing excalibur, it could have gone on hiatus like Young Avengers or Astonishing X-Men when their creators were unavailable. But if they decide to get a new writer and continue the series, featuring Captain Britain and Nocturne on the cover, I expect to see the Excalibur team in their own title.

If the next issue stars the Excalibur team and is a good read, you can bet I will give it the grade it deserves. I have nothing against Frank personally, we have chatted on AIM a lot of times and he's a guy I genuinely admire. That won't stop me being impartial in my reviews though.

[Madrox84]

Sounds interesting, i'll be getting a copy on Thursday... I shall reserve judgement until then.

[tetragene]

If Frank Tieri isn't allowed to use the eXcalibur characters he shouldn't be writing excalibur, it could have gone on hiatus like Young Avengers or Astonishing X-Men when their creators were unavailable. But if they decide to get a new writer and continue the series, featuring Captain Britain and Nocturne on the cover, I expect to see the Excalibur team in their own title.

Agreed--the team/star characters of the book should not be downsized to cameos...in their own book. I think it's all nice and well that he doesn't want to interfere with any stories that Claremont may have planned for these characters...but if Claremont isn't going to be back until well after #14 then sacrifices must be made. I want to read primarily about the team members--not Chamber or Black Knight or any other Marvel U.K. character not currently a part of the team. I think there are definitely ways for Tieri to write stories revolving around the book's team members without interfering with CC's plans. Have a team down-time issue...10 issues in and we still have no clue as to how these characters really feel about each other besides suface levels things like Juggernaut has the hots for Dazzler and Captain Britain and Pete Wisdom don't get along. As long as Tieri isn't writing about Captain Britain's relationship with Courtney (or whoever the hell she really is) or Dazzler's reoccuring ressurection bit then I don't see how he'd be messing up any Clarmeont plots. We really do need to start reading about the team members again though...instead of reading about a collective of characters with no affiliation to NEW Excalibur just to wait for the previous writer to come back and restart his plot points again.

[Affinity]

If CC plans on actually following up and using these highlighted characters later, then, when read as a series wholly, it'll be cool. Right now, I didn't like NEX team flying in from the skies, going, "JONO! We've been looking for you!".

I love Scott Kolins art, though.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

When it was first announced that Claremont was going to be away for a while marvel chose to continue the title, as opposed to put it on hieatus, because Chris had plotted several issues ahead. And of course, at the time, Marvel thought Chris would be back within a couple of months. Only that didn't happen.

They gave tieri the gig, but he didn't feel he was the right man to finish the issues Chris had plotted. He was brave enough to admit that. Chris Yost wrote them instead, up to the Psylocke/Shadow King issue - which was a really great story. The problem is that effectively since that issue New Excalibur HAS stopped. The Chamber issue came across as a guest appearance from NEX, despite Wisdom tracking Jono down to the hospital he was in. It came across as a way for Tieri to bring one of his former stories back to life. It posed an interesting quest: Why should Chamber go with these guys JUST because there an X-Team. He hasn't even met most of them. But that point could have been made better if the story wasn't so compacted into the one issue. There was two issues worth of story there.

I will wait to read this issue for a greater feel of it. Although, like a lot of New Excalibur, I get the feeling these are going to read better as trade.

[Beta Ray Bill]

I miss Claremont. I really wish we knew for certain when he would actually be returning.Ditto. I thought the issue was serviceable. Nothing great but it's hardly the worst thing out there. Again, I'm just biding my time until CC can return and then the book can get back on track. Also, one silly little nitpick. Does anyone hate the New Excalibur logo. It's just ugly. They should really go back to the first one with the sword design, the original. That one's awesome. Ok, that's it.

[drwho]

I've got to admit I'm a big Dane fan so why the hell do we got to get stuck with a time travelling bozo that posseses his body? I really hate it. This issue was lackluster and I'm kind of tired of all these ebony blade stories. Would love to have seen them delve more into what the real Dane has been up to.

[bkdane]

I've got to admit I'm a big Dane fan so why the hell do we got to get stuck with a time travelling bozo that posseses his body? I really hate it. This issue was lackluster and I'm kind of tired of all these ebony blade stories. Would love to have seen them delve more into what the real Dane has been up to.

The only reason I bought this issue (and the 2 previous) was because of the preview stating the Black Knight was guest starring. I am a big BK fan too and at this point I will take any story about any Black Knight. I would have preferred to see a story without Sir Percy possessing Whitman (again) but it's better than nothing! I hope Whitman joins the group!

[Novaya Havoc]

from the Nexus (http://comicsnexus.insidepulse.com/articles/50066):

Dear God, lick my testicles now.

The only thing worse than raging lesbian Al Blaire is making her background prop raging lesbian.

Can't wait to read this issue. Joy and jubilation.

[jawbreaker]

.....


I hope the rumors of Claremont coming back after #15 are true..


I dont want Chamber in this damn title anymore...

[Leebenhouse]

Okay, how the F did Whitman get the Ebony Blade back? last time we saw him he was empowered by the lady of the Lake with a new sword sheild and horse, so he essentially didn't need the Ebony Blade, which was possesing his former squire as Blood Wraith.

I think it would have been better if the book stayed away from being a direct X-Book and insead stayed a British heroes book.

And that's lame that Tierni is stuck unable to actually write the characters of the book, cause of a Marvel edict to please Claremount, who has done real stinkfest work in the past(Soveirgn Seven anybody?)

[Beast]

Finally got to read it earlier today. Not as bad as the last issue, but still not a very good book with the Excalibur team basically playing guest stars in their own book. I don't buy the excuse that Marvel won't allow Tieri to do anything with the characters. Since it seems like he will be using them heavily in the next two issues. It seems more like an excuse to me. Can't wait for CC to come back, so the book can get back on track.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Finally got to read it earlier today. Not as bad as the last issue, but still not a very good book with the Excalibur team basically playing guest stars in their own book. I don't buy the excuse that Marvel won't allow Tieri to do anything with the characters. Since it seems like he will be using them heavily in the next two issues. It seems more like an excuse to me. Can't wait for CC to come back, so the book can get back on track.

I think it might very well be an excuse for simply not bering able to get into writing the book as easily as he thought he would. Didn't Tieri say on newsarama that he had not finished off the Claremont plotted issues, which Chris Yost wrote, because he didn't feel hi could do them right? Or am I imagining this? In view of these two issues might it simply be the case that Tieri doesn't get, and can't get into, these characters?

I'll reserve judgement until this Black Knight arc is complete, but I have to say I'm not entirely blown away by these two issues. They don't suck beyond belief, but I can't help thinking that a rotation of other writers doing an issue or two apiece might have been a better way to continue this series.

Also, one silly little nitpick. Does anyone hate the New Excalibur logo. It's just ugly. They should really go back to the first one with the sword design, the original. That one's awesome.

I kind of know what you mean. I didn't like it when I first saw it, although I think it may have grown on me, a little, since then.

IMO the third Excalibur Logo from the latter end of the original run was by far my favourite. It had the X made up of Swords again, but was a little more polished than the original. That logo, with 'NEW' pasted across the top left corner would have been enough for me.

Or better still, just drop the 'New' tag and get back to what the series really is.

[Bobster777]

yeah, I have to agree. I haven't hated any of the issues so far, but they haven't been exciting me either.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

yeah, I have to agree. I haven't hated any of the issues so far, but they haven't been exciting me either.

I'd agree with that. I loved the first arc, because it actually featured all of the original Excalibur bar Meggan, and had the feel of the old title. But once Kurt, Kity and Rachel went home I was provided with a real feeling that the 'New' Excalibur players really hadn't been given enough panel time in those issues, to warm to them. I some ways it would have been better not to have had the old players involved...

I think it should be pointed out though that this is a Claremont book, and Claremont always has taken a good year of build up on a title to get it going. The Original Excalibur had a fair few filler issues in its first two years, but overall it didn't leave readers with a bad taste in the mouth because it had a consistent feel to it even when the odd issue was a bit duff.

The problem with Tieri filling in is that he has a totally different style to Chris. Chris Yost kept Claremont's style in his issues, adding a little of his own style to the stories, but keeping the overall feel thesame.

I get the feeling Tieri doesn't care to much for that feel, because he doesn't understand it, and can't replicate it. That's not to say he's a bad writer, just a poor choice on marvel's part for matching him to a Claremont book.

[Bobster777]

I'd agree with that. I loved the first arc, because it actually featured all of the original Excalibur bar Meggan, and had the feel of the old title. But once Kurt, Kity and Rachel went home I was provided with a real feeling that the 'New' Excalibur players really hadn't been given enough panel time in those issues, to warm to them. I some ways it would have been better not to have had the old players involved...

I think it should be pointed out though that this is a Claremont book, and Claremont always has taken a good year of build up on a title to get it going. The Original Excalibur had a fair few filler issues in its first two years, but overall it didn't leave readers with a bad taste in the mouth because it had a consistent feel to it even when the odd issue was a bit duff.

The problem with Tieri filling in is that he has a totally different style to Chris. Chris Yost kept Claremont's style in his issues, adding a little of his own style to the stories, but keeping the overall feel thesame.

I get the feeling Tieri doesn't care to much for that feel, because he doesn't understand it, and can't replicate it. That's not to say he's a bad writer, just a poor choice on marvel's part for matching him to a Claremont book.
Yeah, the start was actually really good. I was excited about the Dark X-Men thing, but that kind of fizzled in the end. The Albion thing was even cool. I just don't think the book has successfully been able to sustain any level of excitement. It is so up and down. I guess it has do to with the points you stated.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yeah, the start was actually really good. I was excited about the Dark X-Men thing, but that kind of fizzled in the end. The Albion thing was even cool. I just don't think the book has successfully been able to sustain any level of excitement. It is so up and down. I guess it has do to with the points you stated.

I still think it's largely down to the Hellfire arc being axed and rewritten so late, and the Calaremont just about getting things back on an even keel before having to take his time off.

If Claremont had had his way and made it to 12 issues on his own I don't think people would even be talking about the book as underperforming. Sadly we have to make do with the situation as it is.

[BlackKnight]

So they actually are trying to erase everything that Ostrander did to advance Whitmans charater in H4H. Great typical marvel...

So is he back in his chainmail armour with the ebony blade, or did they at least show him in the Avalon stuff.

[Novaya Havoc]

Why are there sooo many excuses for this book? First it's Whedon taking away that (no doubt) KILLER HFC story. Then it's the editors encroaching on CC's creativity. Then it's that this book isn't pushed like little darlings New Avengers (Bendis) or Astonishing X-Men (Whedon).

Then it's CC is a slow-roaster and these plots will be so grand if we're just patient.

Now it's Tieri's fault that the book is nuclear, and we need some more lovey-dovey Chris Claremont plots. Yeah, it's aggravating that Tieri is not using the actual cast in NEX, but CC was not much better. Remember the Psylocke Show? The Rachel Summers/Kitty Pryde showdown? Or howzabout random guest-star after guest-star from the Marvel UK?

It's not like Teiri has tanked the book. It's just continuing its downward spiral. Chris himself needed to hit the ground running with this book, and he never really gave it a purpose, or established our protagonists.

Making excuses at this point is just that: making excuses.

[Zombienorthstar]

I dont understand why he cant 'touch' the characters...i mean i know they have ongoing plots but couldnt he have done a series of sort of vignettes... stand alone emotional stories that dont affect their wider arcs....

For example, Brian dealing with Meggans death, Nocturne thinking about her identity in this world (scarlet witch etc), etc

[Dr Ray Palmer]

I dont understand why he cant 'touch' the characters...i mean i know they have ongoing plots but couldnt he have done a series of sort of vignettes... stand alone emotional stories that dont affect their wider arcs....

Yeah, or even just "Nocturne and Sage stop a bank robbery," "Dazzler and Juggernaut get a cat out of a tree," whatever. Anything that features, you know, the actual cast of the book.

[Will.S]

Okay, how the F did Whitman get the Ebony Blade back? last time we saw him he was empowered by the lady of the Lake with a new sword sheild and horse, so he essentially didn't need the Ebony Blade, which was possesing his former squire as Blood Wraith.
That was my only problem with the story, it's never explained how Dane was in possession of the sword.

So they actually are trying to erase everything that Ostrander did to advance Whitmans charater in H4H. Great typical marvel...
Captain Britain mentions his H4H days, I think Britain wants to recruit him or at least offer him something.

So is he back in his chainmail armour with the ebony blade, or did they at least show him in the Avalon stuff.
He's just in regular street wear. Basically he's opening the "Black Knight exhibit" showing the past Black Knights with Sir Percy squarely in the middle of the exhibition under glass being preserved. As for the Avalon stuff, they show a flashback of Sir Percy talking to the Lady of the Lake about the Excalibur sword he carried with him but the Lady of the Lake alludes to him that it's not the real one. She then tells him that there's a threat only he can stop and that he has the ablility to restore Camelot.

She then takes his soul and transports him into the future into Dane's body. From then on he uses the ebony sword that apparently BK aquired somehow but he isn't shown to be in armor at least not yet.

As for the issue I really enjoyed it for the BK stuff and seeing Tieri delve more into his history. I'm also excited about the ebony blade being used again but how it came to be in Black Knight's hands is very questionable unless Tieri fills in that gap in time between this issue and what happened back in Slorenia after the pro-active global Avengers disbanded. I didn't feel that the Excalibur team were just cameos because they have the next few issues to themselves so I'm sure we're going to see them in their 12th century glory.

[Will.S]

Crappy double post.

[Affinity]

"Dazzler and Juggernaut get a cat out of a tree,"

Lol Novaya would have a field day with that one.

[BlackKnight]

That was my only problem with the story, it's never explained how Dane was in possession of the sword.


Captain Britain mentions his H4H days, I think Britain wants to recruit him or at least offer him something.


He's just in regular street wear. Basically he's opening the "Black Knight exhibit" showing the past Black Knights with Sir Percy squarely in the middle ofthe floor under glass being preserved. As for the Avalon stuff, they show a flashback of Sir Percy talking to the Lady of the Lake about the Excalibur sword he carried with him but the Lady of the Lake alludes to him that it's not the real one. She then tells him that there's a threat only he can stop and that he has the ablility to restore Camelot.

She then takes his soul and transports him into the future into Dane's body. From then on he uses the ebony sword that apparently BK aquired somehow but he isn't shown to be in armor at least not yet.

As for the issue I really enjoyed it for the BK stuff and seeing Tieri delve more into his history. I'm also excited about the ebony blade being used again but how it came to be in Black Knight's hands is very questionable unless Tieri fills in that gap in time between this issue and what happened back in Slorenia after the pro-active global Avengers disbanded. I didn't feel that the Excalibur team were just cameos because they have the next few issues to themselves so I'm sure we're going to see them in their 12th century.

Will,
Thanks for the responce.
I just wish that some writer would actually continue the Avalon story that Ostrander started, it would have worked much better then this camolot back in time stuff, that seems to be taking Dane back about 5 steps.
No cool armour, no sword of light, no shield of night. No longer the Pendragon or the defender of Avalon. Oh well... At least he is not being killed.

[Will.S]

Will,
Thanks for the responce.
I just wish that some writer would actually continue the Avalon story that Ostrander started, it would have worked much better then this camolot back in time stuff, that seems to be taking Dane back about 5 steps.
No cool armour, no sword of light, no shield of night. No longer the Pendragon or the defender of Avalon. Oh well... At least he is not being killed.
No problem BK.

I actually don't know if Frank is ignoring the Avalon stuff since the story seems to be involving the Sir Percy BK more than the Dane Whitman one but we'll see how it plays out. Plus the Lady of the Lake makes an appearance so maybe there's something else going on as well.

You should check out this arc, I think you'll like it.

[BlackKnight]

No problem BK.

I actually don't know if Frank is ignoring the Avalon stuff since the story seems to be involving the Sir Percy BK more than the Dane Whitman one but we'll see how it plays out. Plus the Lady of the Lake makes an appearance so maybe there's something else going on as well.

You should check out this arc, I think you'll like it.

I will be, I just don't get my comics to the end of the month, I order them online and get them all sent to me then. Saves me about 60 dollars.

I cetainly hope he does... The charater really advanced and I would hate to see him take that many steps back.

[BlackKnight]

Double post, I hate that.

[Will.S]

The boards are acting kind of screwy lately.

[BlackKnight]

The boards are acting kind of screwy lately.

Yep.
On a side note, it is nice having a converstation here, without having to deal with people attacking me.. It is refreshing. :)

[MDactor1980]

I have been less than thrilled with this title since issue #1. I liked the updated roster, and was excited to have Dazzlker back in a monthly, and Nocturne in the 616. However it's just plodded along for 10 months now. The dark x-men story was kinda dull, and didn't seem to have any resolution or anything until tiei came on. The Chamber story was good, but out of left fireld for the title, and the BK story seems a little promising, IF it has future relevance to the book. I just can't bring myself to drop the book though. I keep hoping something cool will happen. I guess time will tell. Is it at least selling enough to not get $h!t-canned before Claremont comes back? My hope is that he was slowly building to something real good.

[Beast]

I have been less than thrilled with this title since issue #1. I liked the updated roster, and was excited to have Dazzlker back in a monthly, and Nocturne in the 616. However it's just plodded along for 10 months now. The dark x-men story was kinda dull, and didn't seem to have any resolution or anything until tiei came on. The Chamber story was good, but out of left fireld for the title, and the BK story seems a little promising, IF it has future relevance to the book. I just can't bring myself to drop the book though. I keep hoping something cool will happen. I guess time will tell. Is it at least selling enough to not get $h!t-canned before Claremont comes back? My hope is that he was slowly building to something real good.
I feel the exact opposite. The title has been great up until these Tieri fill-in issues. And what do you mean the Shadow X-Men story didn't have a resolution? :confused:

[tetragene]

I feel the exact opposite. The title has been great up until these Tieri fill-in issues. And what do you mean the Shadow X-Men story didn't have a resolution? :confused:

It was never clearly explained. I mean yeah, we find out that Shadow Xavier and the Shadow X-Men were all being controlled by the Shadow King (big surprise), but what was their purpose in the first three issues? He was after Nocturne and made her out to be an important asset...yet by #8 he is after Psylocke with absolutely no regard for Nocturne whatsoever. However in the first three issues he showed no interest in Psylocke at all. It was just poorly done and wasn't really truly resolved...except for the whole "Hey, it was Shadow King all along" bit.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Or howzabout random guest-star after guest-star from the Marvel UK?

Actually, to date, no Marvel Uk characters have showed up, unless you count The Captain. The team that Claremont showed being depowered, and their final member performing a suicide bombing? Claremont created them for that issue.

I'd certainly like top see some old faces from that period show up. Dark angel for example has ties to both Excalibur and Psylocke. It would make sense to let her visit, although the last we saw of her - like most of the Marvel UK established characters - they were at the Time Guardian's palace, just as The Dark Guard series ended, and Marvel US axed the imprint entirely.

The dark x-men story was kinda dull, and didn't seem to have any resolution or anything until tiei came on.

Tieri was not responsible for the semi-resolution to that story. Chris Yost wrote the Shadow King reveal/Psylocke exits to eXiles story from what Chris had plotted in advance. And this is a Claremont story. It's not truly 'resolved'. After all Dark Xavier may be dead, but those alternate X-Men are now under the employ of Black Air. And that's never going to end well...

[jester1436]

I am not sure I look forward to this book anymore.

I still need to pick up the issue, but the premise presented for this storyline certainly isn't grabbing me, even though I love Excalibur and Black Knight.

There really needs to be some character work done, not downtime or crazy fights necessarily, but something that establishes actual relationships with the character. In theory they mesh, but in practice for me they don't seem like a team.

I loved the original Excalibur, and most of the characters here would rank highly as my favorites, especially Dazzler, but it just seems like everything has been thrown down and we're supposed to just take it.

I really hope that when Claremont does return, he comes back with a positive thrust forward, because it hasn't been a fresh book for me, and even Claremont at his most cliche is somewhat fun for me. I just hope for more.

After this Tieri stuff, I do hope Chamber and Black Knight are picked up. Sort of anyway, I don't want a book that already shoves various cast members to the side to become to heavy with deadweight.

Not that anyone cares, but here's some stuff I'd like to see with the book.

* Clownface Chamber and Biker Lesbian Dazzler to recieve make-overs eventually. Perhaps via the Exiles crossover. I think Dazzler should have a silver disco/blue starburst hybrid costume with longer blonde hair, with pink streaks? Chamber... poor Chamber. Atleast he isn't rotting away in the hospital.

* It'd be cool to have Dazzler pursue her legit recording career again, as an additional to super-heroics and weird ressurections. That could spawn a make-over too, but the label could be backed by the Hellfire Club or something if he gets back to that.

* Brian to show he actually misses Meggan and why he accepts this whole weird Courtney/Sat-Yr-9 thing.

* Nocturne to be a little more fierce and a little less 13 year-old Kitty or whiny Rachel Grey. The return of her hex-bolts. Call them bamf-blasts if need be. Or don't.

* A Marvel UK character or two showing up. I'd almost even accept "random british hero has been killed, it's a murder mystery", but that'd probably be lame.

* Tessa and Wisdom finding out they're secretly related. And Xavier knew it all along, the bastard.

*Technet. Spiral. Somewhere along the line.

* Dazzler and Juggernaut having a platonic and strong friendship. I really don't want to see her hook-up with yet another super-hero.

[Arilou]

Nocturne to be a little more fierce and a little less 13 year-old Kitty or whiny Rachel Grey. The return of her hex-bolts. Call them bamf-blasts if need be. Or don't.

I think they also need to do something with her relationship to her parents.... Especially her mother.

[Zombienorthstar]

I think they also need to do something with her relationship to her parents.... Especially her mother.


Same here...id like to see her interact with any of the following:

Magneto
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Wiccan
Speed

[bkdane]

That was my only problem with the story, it's never explained how Dane was in possession of the sword.


Captain Britain mentions his H4H days, I think Britain wants to recruit him or at least offer him something.


He's just in regular street wear. Basically he's opening the "Black Knight exhibit" showing the past Black Knights with Sir Percy squarely in the middle ofthe floor under glass being preserved. As for the Avalon stuff, they show a flashback of Sir Percy talking to the Lady of the Lake about the Excalibur sword he carried with him but the Lady of the Lake alludes to him that it's not the real one. She then tells him that there's a threat only he can stop and that he has the ablility to restore Camelot.

She then takes his soul and transports him into the future into Dane's body. From then on he uses the ebony sword that apparently BK aquired somehow but he isn't shown to be in armor at least not yet.

As for the issue I really enjoyed it for the BK stuff and seeing Tieri delve more into his history. I'm also excited about the ebony blade being used again but how it came to be in Black Knight's hands is very questionable unless Tieri fills in that gap in time between this issue and what happened back in Slorenia after the pro-active global Avengers disbanded. I didn't feel that the Excalibur team were just cameos because they have the next few issues to themselves so I'm sure we're going to see them in their 12th century.

The Black Knight that appeared in the recent Black Panther issues had the ebony blade. Does that fit into this?

[Beast]

The Black Knight that appeared in the recent Black Panther issues had the ebony blade. Does that fit into this?
That wasn't the real Black Knight.

[drwho]

The Black Knight that appeared in the recent Black Panther issues had the ebony blade. Does that fit into this?

That was a make believe story that only occurred in Hudlin's imagination it is far from being in continuity.


Marvels Forgotten heroes:

http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/miamiuu/th_newdef141.jpghttp://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/miamiuu/th_superprocover.jpghttp://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/miamiuu/th_sw06.jpghttp://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/miamiuu/th_deathlok_vol2_cover_01.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I read New Excalibur #10, Last night, and was about to post about it when my connection died.

Well, I have to say that after reading the damning comments presented in this thread I was kind of worried about this issue. It certainly sounded like a one dimension waste of my time, from other comments above.

I'm happy to say that it wasn't. Not at all :D

I genuinely loved this issue. Sure, it wasn't perfect. A bit of American interpretation of English vocabulary which niggled away at me - but certainly not as bad as Chamber in the last issue. And quite how Sir Percy had been preserved all - lenin like for over a thousand years I don't know, but suspending that disbelief I liked this a lot.

And what the hell are people talking about? Excalibur ARE in this issue. Dane Spends half the issue continuing a phone conversation on his mobile (Cell phone) with Cap (Also on cell phone) as he foils a bank robbery. The brilliant casual way Cap does that, conducting such a long conversation whilst bullets bounce off his forceshield and continues to beat up the bad guys was brilliant. This is closer to the Captain Britain of old - the one before Excalibur, the one with a seperate personality, and who wasn't so defined as being part of a couple. I think Tieri seems to have a real grasp on the character so far, which is really refeshing to see. More of this please.

This is very much the first part of a three parter, but Dane doesn't take over the book by a long stretch. The main player in this issue is not Dane as the Black Knight, but the Black Knight Mythos - and to lay it out to the unitiated really does take the better part of an issue. But it never does so intrusively, merely setting a context for the new reader to grasp it and older reader to go 'Oh yeah, I remember this stuff'.

Interesting to see Brian didge questions about Meggan again, but this time changing the subject to make a nod to Dane's past history:

Brian: "So, listen...what's your story these days?"

Dane: "What do you mean?"

Brian: "I mean, no Avengers, Defenders, Heroes for Hire, Boy Scouts of America, or whatever other group that'd be sorry enough to have you as a member?

Dane: "Very funny. But no, I've got nothing going on. Why?"

Brian: "Oh, no reason, really.Just that I may have a little offer to make you".

And there's what you need. The intention for Dane to stick around and hopefully join Excalibur is very much in place. And I don't think that would be any bad idea at all. But what pleases me most is the quality of the banter. It's made clear that they've been friends for ages, and serves to highlight Brian as an individual character - something Claremont hasn't really done, as of yet, in any proper capacity.

I'm also really liking the way Michael Ryan draws Cap. I hated the redesign at first, I must admit, but the interior art of Cap this issue is finally matching the quality of how he's been drawn on the covers recently. Ryan's art has improved greatly in recent months, and stands out so much more professionally compared to last month's Kollins' issue.

As for New Excalibur as a team not getting the most panel time? Maybe physically, but as the final panel shows they appear to be a good deal more central to this story than others have credited. And we get to see the team in 'action' also, against the 'possessed' Black Knight. We see Wisdom's hot knives absorbed and Dazzler's hard light beams repelled by the ebony blade (How ever it is back in his possesion), but what marks this as slightly more interesting is that the team actually talk to each other while fiighting. Even to Brian pointing out to Cain that while Dane may be possessed smacking him over the head is still going to actually hurt!

We even see TJ try to work her moves only to be chucked out of Dane's body, as somebody else is already inside it.

What more could you want?

Good solid set up issue, with some good character moments, and showing the team in action with a little more than the usual purely battling without piont.

If the next two issues live up to this Tieri will have won me over.

Really. Give it a try.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hope you don't mind Jester, but you've clearly thought a lot about this post so I thought I'd respond in detail.

I am not sure I look forward to this book anymore.

I still need to pick up the issue, but the premise presented for this storyline certainly isn't grabbing me, even though I love Excalibur and Black Knight.

There really needs to be some character work done, not downtime or crazy fights necessarily, but something that establishes actual relationships with the character. In theory they mesh, but in practice for me they don't seem like a team.

I think this is slowly occuring. There was actually abit more of that in this issue, and I would argue that the conversations between Cap and Dane provided exactly the kind of character work yoyur talking about. Drawing on the past to highlight the character in the present, for those who haven't really encountered the guy before.

I loved the original Excalibur, and most of the characters here would rank highly as my favorites, especially Dazzler, but it just seems like everything has been thrown down and we're supposed to just take it.

I kind of agree with you there. If there hadn't been such a shaky start to the book from a plotting point I think that this would have happened sooner. As it I think the first real glimpses we saw of the team gelling weren't until the Psylocke issue, and to adegree this one. It needs further exploring without a doubt. But I think this will be happening over the coming issues.

I really hope that when Claremont does return, he comes back with a positive thrust forward, because it hasn't been a fresh book for me, and even Claremont at his most cliche is somewhat fun for me. I just hope for more.

I guess that depends on what you consider a thrust forward. If you mean a fresh start and forgetting a lot of what has come before you will almost certainly be disappointed. At present there areseveral ongoing stories which have been started and will need progressing. Black Air, Albion's Sword Corps, The Shadow King, Courtney Ross, Meggan, the fact that Cap and TJ still remember bits of of House of M, Brian not being able to get back to Otherworld. These are all ongoing plots, which will be explored as time goes on. It's the way that Claremont works. Set up a lot, and slowly weave the many plot strands over months of continuity.

After this Tieri stuff, I do hope Chamber and Black Knight are picked up. Sort of anyway, I don't want a book that already shoves various cast members to the side to become to heavy with deadweight.

I'd agree. With the team still only really starting out it would be bad move to take away from the existing characters.

I do think, however, that both the Black Knight and Chamber have something to offer the team. A little camp though it might be there is something to be said for having a Knight attached to a british super team. Dane might be American, but his bloodline is about as tied to Britain as you can get. And a sword weilder can always provide something in battle. If Excalibur find themselves having to fight their way into Otherworld, to reclaim the throne for Cap Dane would prove pretty handy. Plus his banter with Brian, and their past together, makes for good writing - and gives both an extra dimension.

As for Chamber? Well, much as though Claremont has kind of fudged it with Sage New Excalibur don't really have a psi-talent on their side. Providing that Clan Akkaba's medling has prepowerd Jono he could be of real use to the team, especially if they end up encountering the Shadow King again. It'll take some swaying to convince him that New Excalibur would be the right move for HIM, but if they search him out again, outline their case (Instead of letting Wisdom try effectively tell him he's joining them...) and get to know him, I'm sure he'd join up.

Not that anyone cares, but here's some stuff I'd like to see with the book.

* Clownface Chamber and Biker Lesbian Dazzler to recieve make-overs eventually. Perhaps via the Exiles crossover. I think Dazzler should have a silver disco/blue starburst hybrid costume with longer blonde hair, with pink streaks? Chamber... poor Chamber. Atleast he isn't rotting away in the hospital.

I like your idea for Dazzler there. It would probably be the most sensible way of slowly growing out of the pink. Although I don't think the costume needs entirely changing, it does still have strong nods to her X-Men one. I just hate the hair. :D

As for Chamber? Well I think you know as well as I do that this is only a transition point look. He'll be wanting to shift it us much as anybody. It's really only the crow lips that need to go the most. If he powers up again and blows a hole in his chest again it mucgh remove that anyway...:rolleyes:

* It'd be cool to have Dazzler pursue her legit recording career again, as an additional to super-heroics and weird ressurections. That could spawn a make-over too, but the label could be backed by the Hellfire Club or something if he gets back to that.

Quite like that idea. And don't forget that that record exec handed her a card...

* Brian to show he actually misses Meggan and why he accepts this whole weird Courtney/Sat-Yr-9 thing.

It wont get resolved until Claremont gets back, but if Tieri keeps up with this Brian changing the subject whenever she's mentioned it could build up to an eventual snapping point, where he actually grieves Meggan.

As for the Courtney thing? Well she hasn't even been seen since the Lionheart issue. But dear god I hope Chris has been thinking about resolving this. It worries me that it's got so confused.

* Nocturne to be a little more fierce and a little less 13 year-old Kitty or whiny Rachel Grey. The return of her hex-bolts. Call them bamf-blasts if need be. Or don't.

I so want the hex bolts back, too. The possesion is all well and good, but it doesn't make her all that practical in a fight. She needs those back, and to get a bit tougher as well. She's not a kid. Heck she almost HAD a kid in eXiles. She was headstrong and condident. We don't see that anymore.

* A Marvel UK character or two showing up. I'd almost even accept "random british hero has been killed, it's a murder mystery", but that'd probably be lame.

This is what really bothers me, Jester. Britain HAD heroes up until the mid 90s, when the Marvel UK imprint went down. They should have been active all this time. Where's Dark Angel, or Motormouth and Killpower? I'd really love to have Death's Head and Tuck turn up - but since Marvel decided to create another Death's Head recently I doubt we'll ever see that again.

What about Union Jack or Spitfire? Proper British Heroes. I dislike thst Claremont has had to create new characters instead of using the older ones.

* Tessa and Wisdom finding out they're secretly related. And Xavier knew it all along, the bastard.

Now that'd be funny. :D I don't want to see them paired off. I'drather see Pete out on his own. Hopefully Paul Cornell's Wisdom mini will do just that.

* Technet. Spiral. Somewhere along the line.

With Dazzler, Juggernaut and TJ on the team Mojo's going to have to come looking for them sooner or later. So Spiral ius a distinct possibility.

I'd love to have Gatecrasher just turn up one day, with a couple of Technet members fleeing Otherworld. Something bad's got to happening there, and maybe Roma or Saturnye could send them to find Brian.

* Dazzler and Juggernaut having a platonic and strong friendship. I really don't want to see her hook-up with yet another super-hero. I don't think they will hook up, just have this really good friendship. Maybe Cain might want more, and even push his luck, but I'd rather just have the tension than an actual affair.

[jester1436]

This is what really bothers me, Jester. Britain HAD heroes up until the mid 90s, when the Marvel UK imprint went down. They should have been active all this time. Where's Dark Angel, or Motormouth and Killpower? I'd really love to have Death's Head and Tuck turn up - but since Marvel decided to create another Death's Head recently I doubt we'll ever see that again.

What about Union Jack or Spitfire? Proper British Heroes. I dislike that Claremont has had to create new characters instead of using the older ones.



I think it would be fun, since Excalibur is invariably a British mutant team, to establish an Avengers style British team as a sort of allies/rivals. Union Jack and Spitfire would be musts I think, but they would also include some Marvel UK characters and maybe members of Clan Destine? I've never read the latter, but it always looked interesting. Maybe Irish heroine Shamrock could be revived and included too, since she was turned into a powerless hairdresser last time she was used. Maybe Black Knight and Chamber could join THAT team too.

Union Jack
Spitfire
Black Knight
Chamber
Dark Angel
Motormouth
Killpower
Crimson Crusader
Imp
Shamrock

That's a rather large team though. I'm not sure what they could be called, maybe claiming the Invaders name or something cheesy like the Knights. Perhaps they could be a new Champions team? It's not likely though, so it doesn't matter.

In regards to a thrust forward, I mean an actual push deeper into these storylines and actual progression. I know Claremont basically works things together kind of slowly, but he can also push things along quickly as well in some ways. I'd like somethings to be expanded upon and a closer sense of resolution for some plots.

[Will.S]

That was a make believe story that only occurred in Hudlin's imagination it is far from being in continuity.
Oh absolutely.

BTW I agree with all of The Sword Is Drawn's thoughts on the issue. Really good stuff.

[jawbreaker]

Clownface Chamber and Biker Lesbian Dazzler to recieve make-overs eventually. Perhaps via the Exiles crossover. I think Dazzler should have a silver disco/blue starburst hybrid costume with longer blonde hair, with pink streaks? Chamber... poor Chamber. Atleast he isn't rotting away in the hospital.
Id like to see Chamber & Dazzler become a couple...then Dazz dumps him & admits she just used him for a publicity stunt. But Chamber wont care cuz at least he got to have some again...

not only would it be cool, but the Dazzler fans can have something new to whine about other than her looking butch...

:D :p

[Madrox84]

Oh absolutely.

BTW I agree with all of The Sword Is Drawn's thoughts on the issue. Really good stuff.

Me too, i haven't enjoyed NEX as much since the first storyarc...

[Dr Ray Palmer]

I so want the hex bolts back, too. The possesion is all well and good, but it doesn't make her all that practical in a fight. She needs those back, and to get a bit tougher as well. She's not a kid. Heck she almost HAD a kid in eXiles. She was headstrong and condident. We don't see that anymore.

That's been my biggest problem with this series so far -- Nocturne doesn't feel like Nocturne at all. I agree with jester1436 that she's been much too 13-year-old Kitty or even early Jubilee, which is everything the Exiles Nocturne wasn't. As much as I love CC, he really needs to go back and read Judd Winick's Exiles to see how T.J. really behaves and what she's really capable of. Remember the gladiator reality where Nocturne basically kicked EVERYBODY'S ass? How does that fit in with the current Nocturne, whose main contribution seems to be attempting to possess someone, failing, and needing to be rescued every issue?

I think a big part of the problem is that CC has decided Nocturne is going to be the "hip, precocious kid." The problem is that whenever he tries to write this stereotype, it ends up being painful, because he has all these verbal tics he overuses. The editors need to take the word "totally" away from him. His characters say it ALL THE TIME, and it's extremely irritating. "Totally bad feeling about this." "Totally excellent teamwork!" "How totally X-Men." That was one of the reasons I couldn't read the Genosha Excalibur series, because everything seemed to be totally this and way that and so not the other. If he'd let Nocturne (and Dazzler, who's almost as bad) drop the "You go, grrl!" and "We rock!" and "Euwww, yuck!" stuff and start talking like actual people, there'd be more room for some character development for those two.

I hate being so critical because I really do love Chris Claremont -- he's one of my favorite writers of all time. I want this book to be really good, and it has its moments. Unfortunately, those are mostly moments when Nocturne and Dazzler aren't around, because as soon as they show up I know what we're about to be subjected to. When a third of your cast are interchangeable valley girls timewarped in from 1985 (with a brief layover in a 1994 Ricki Lake episode), that really costs your book a lot of momentum.

[Babylon23]

Obviously, I'm one of the few people who has really loved this book since the outset. I know there's been a lot of setup, but since a lot of it ties together, I don't see a problem. Dark X-Men have been tied to Black Air, and were in pursiot of one of Courtney's employees in issue 1. This is clearly one big storyline, and I'm excited about it. At the same time, we have the Albion subplot.

As for issue 10, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I expected. Unlike the Chamber issue, where Excalibur were really just cameo players, this issue was a setup for an actual Excalibur story, so I had no problem with their minimal use. Plus, the Captain Britain pages were cool.

I hope Brian was offering Dane membership in the team, and I hope he accepts. This one line had me more excited than anything in the issue.

[bkdane]

I got this part of an interview of Frank Tieri off of newsarama.com concerning The Black Knight:

NRAMA: Not only is Chamber making an appearance during your run, but the Black Knight as well?

FT: Yep. I've always seen the Black Knight as a natural for this book-probably since the book is entitled Excalibur, ya know? He and Chamber represent what's sort of my "recruitment drive" with this book. Will one-if not both-of these guys end up joining Excalibur on a permanent basis? Fans shouldn't rule it out

NRAMA: While the Chamber issue #9 is a "done in one" story. You're going to be launching into a bigger arc with the Black Knight and issue #10, right?

FT: Yep. The Black Knight arc will run from #'s 10-12 and is entitled "The Last Days of Camelot"

Basically, it delivers exactly what the title suggests… Camelot is utterly destroyed before its time. King Arthur, Lancelot, Merlin, etc? They're all dead. The only one who's left is Sir Percy, the original Black Knight - so yeah, technically, we have two Black Knights appearing-and he's the one left with the daunting task of undoing this terrible thing that was never supposed to happen. That's where Excalibur comes in.

Sir Percy actually plays a pretty big role in this arc-and we'll really be exploring not only his relationship with his successor, Dane Whitman, but the mythology behind the ebony blade they both share, as well. There's certain things about the continuity of the blade that has never sat well with me… such as, if this is such a dangerous object that ultimately must be destroyed, why in all these centuries has no one actually done it? Why does it always seem to end up back in the Black Knight's hands when he knows it's not supposed to? I have my answers to those questions and if you're a fan of the Black Knight, I really have to say this is a story arc that is not to be missed.

So what is it that ultimately destroys Camelot? You're really going to have to buy the book to find out. Or at least have somebody on a message board spoil it for you. Bastards… damned internet.

----------

He also stated that he didn't care for the Sword of light Black Knight at all.

[tetragene]

Id like to see Chamber & Dazzler become a couple...then Dazz dumps him & admits she just used him for a publicity stunt. But Chamber wont care cuz at least he got to have some again...

not only would it be cool, but the Dazzler fans can have something new to whine about other than her looking butch...

:D :p

Aw, come on--if Sage fans can complain about her hair being in a ponytail instead of the exact same style as it was in Xtreme X-Men, then Dazz fans can certainly complain about her having inch long hot pink hair :p

I really don't see any couplings within NEX working or gelling well. Juggernaut is just a huge "no" for being paired with ANYBODY on that team. Nocturne expressed before in Exiles that she was not attracted to white guys. Sage is a hermit. Pete is a major douche. Dazzler has always seemed to have almost an exclusive thing for blond pretty-boys (Human Torch, Angel, Longshot--and she and Havok flirted quite a bit). Captain Britain is still tied to Meggan (which really should be addressed...instead of lame "am I evil or not? am I a doppleganger or not?" Courtney). If only the writers felt that way, lol--I'm sure we'll be treated to a nauseating Juggernaut-Dazzler-Nocturne love triangle and a head-scratching Brian and Courtney pairing. And I'm sure Sage and Wisdom will eventually get it on.

[Zombienorthstar]

Id like to see Chamber & Dazzler become a couple...then Dazz dumps him & admits she just used him for a publicity stunt. But Chamber wont care cuz at least he got to have some again...

:D :p


Thats Poptopia...like word for word.

[Beast]

Aw, come on--if Sage fans can complain about her hair being in a ponytail instead of the exact same style as it was in Xtreme X-Men, then Dazz fans can certainly complain about her having inch long hot pink hair :p

I really don't see any couplings within NEX working or gelling well. Juggernaut is just a huge "no" for being paired with ANYBODY on that team. Nocturne expressed before in Exiles that she was not attracted to white guys. Sage is a hermit. Pete is a major douche. Dazzler has always seemed to have almost an exclusive thing for blond pretty-boys (Human Torch, Angel, Longshot--and she and Havok flirted quite a bit). Captain Britain is still tied to Meggan (which really should be addressed...instead of lame "am I evil or not? am I a doppleganger or not?" Courtney). If only the writers felt that way, lol--I'm sure we'll be treated to a nauseating Juggernaut-Dazzler-Nocturne love triangle and a head-scratching Brian and Courtney pairing. And I'm sure Sage and Wisdom will eventually get it on.
Just a few corrections. Juggernaut and Dazzler make perfect sense. Nocturne's comment was to Morph, who is pasty white, it was a joke. Sage isn't really a hermit, she was actually rather close to Bishop in X-Treme. Pete is a douche. Dazzler isn't as shallow as you claim her to be, as you forget her thing with Beast. Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan, but he's not sure what.

[Zombienorthstar]

Just a few corrections. Juggernaut and Dazzler make perfect sense. Nocturne's comment was to Morph, who is pasty white, it was a joke. Sage isn't really a hermit, she was actually rather close to Bishop in X-Treme. Pete is a douche. Dazzler isn't as shallow as you claim her to be, as you forget her thing with Beast. Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan, but he's not sure what.


Also the love of her life Thunderbird was white...well native american...but genetically altered.

[fishtaco]

Just a few corrections. Juggernaut and Dazzler make perfect sense. Nocturne's comment was to Morph, who is pasty white, it was a joke. Sage isn't really a hermit, she was actually rather close to Bishop in X-Treme. Pete is a douche. Dazzler isn't as shallow as you claim her to be, as you forget her thing with Beast. Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan, but he's not sure what.Why would a Juggernaut/Dazzler relationship make sense? Because he's a fan of her music and they had a small misunderstanding back when Dazzler was an X-Man?

[Zombienorthstar]

Why would a Juggernaut/Dazzler relationship make sense? Because he's a fan of her music and they had a small misunderstanding back when Dazzler was an X-Man?

Yes but why wouldnt it? Thats the point.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Pete and Captain Britain! Come on, you know you would totally buy it.

[tetragene]

Just a few corrections. Juggernaut and Dazzler make perfect sense. Nocturne's comment was to Morph, who is pasty white, it was a joke. Sage isn't really a hermit, she was actually rather close to Bishop in X-Treme. Pete is a douche. Dazzler isn't as shallow as you claim her to be, as you forget her thing with Beast. Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan, but he's not sure what.

I know levity doesn't usually come off well or obvious in forums and whatnot, but come on--I was not being very serious (Sage a "hermit", Nocturne not being into "white guys", and Pete a "douche"--ok, well Pete can come off that way). I'm perfectly aware Dazzler has dated more than blonds--there's the lawyer, that doctor, the hollywood actor, etc.

Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan but has it really been addressed so far? Captain Britain hasn't discussed it (even internally) very much. So far we've had the pretty badly done bits between Brian and Courtney where Courtney professes her love for Brian, even though she knows he is hopelessly devoted to Meggan, but she is really so in love with him :barf: Juggernaut and Dazzler make no sense to me--he's a star-struck fan of hers and the last time they met she was fighting him with everything she had. Friends. Yes. Lovers? No. Maybe further down the line after they have been on the same team for a considerable amount of time it could possibly work. Nocturne and Juggernaut make no sense to me either--it's like a big brother and little sister relationship. He's protective of her and she's fond of him, but I think that's where the line is drawn. Sage was close to Bishop--but who on the NEX team is even similiar to Bishop for her to feel comfortable enough around to even consider a relationship? Brian is off limits, Juggernaut is enamored with Dazzler, and Wisdom seems too arrogant for her to even consider.

[Affinity]

Juggernaut buried Ali. I think that'd be funny to mention on once again.

MAYBE RANDOM SILVESTRI FLASHBACK ART!?!?!






But I should be so lucky.

[dotdotdot]

Why are there sooo many excuses for this book? First it's Whedon taking away that (no doubt) KILLER HFC story. Then it's the editors encroaching on CC's creativity. Then it's that this book isn't pushed like little darlings New Avengers (Bendis) or Astonishing X-Men (Whedon).

Then it's CC is a slow-roaster and these plots will be so grand if we're just patient.

Now it's Tieri's fault that the book is nuclear, and we need some more lovey-dovey Chris Claremont plots. Yeah, it's aggravating that Tieri is not using the actual cast in NEX, but CC was not much better. Remember the Psylocke Show? The Rachel Summers/Kitty Pryde showdown? Or howzabout random guest-star after guest-star from the Marvel UK?

It's not like Teiri has tanked the book. It's just continuing its downward spiral. Chris himself needed to hit the ground running with this book, and he never really gave it a purpose, or established our protagonists.

Making excuses at this point is just that: making excuses.

excellent post.

[Affinity]

Aren't they all? *flattery*

[fishtaco]

I think Marvel could have made a wiser decision by just putting it on hiatus.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Captain Britain knows something happened to Meggan but has it really been addressed so far? Captain Britain hasn't discussed it (even internally) very much. So far we've had the pretty badly done bits between Brian and Courtney where Courtney professes her love for Brian, even though she knows he is hopelessly devoted to Meggan, but she is really so in love with him :barf:

It all really depends on where Claremont is going with this. It's almost been totally lost in the mixup of the last few issues, so I was glad to have Tieri deliberately have Brian change the subject when Dane mentions Maeggan, rather than talk about her. I want that expanded on. I want people within NEX to talk about Meggan in the past tense while he refuses to accept she's dead. She did it for him before, he should do it for her.

As for Courtney? Well, it really depends on who THIS Courtney really is. If she is still Courtney from House of M, if Wanda didn't put her back right, then the real Courtney really did love Brian Braddock. He was everything to her, and he just kind of let her pass out of his life, as he went off dimension jumping with Jackdaw.

I'm going to assume that Claremont is going to play it as this being the genuine Courtney Ross, a slight bonus from Wanda's Woogie, seemingly correcting the misjustice done by Sat-yr-9 back in Excalibur. She wont be of course. It will almost enevitably still be Sat-yr-9 but she'll spend a good year or so trying to con Brian into believing otherwise, and worming her way ionto his affections...

Juggernaut and Dazzler make no sense to me--he's a star-struck fan of hers and the last time they met she was fighting him with everything she had. Friends. Yes. Lovers? No. Maybe further down the line after they have been on the same team for a considerable amount of time it could possibly work. Nocturne and Juggernaut make no sense to me either--it's like a big brother and little sister relationship. He's protective of her and she's fond of him, but I think that's where the line is drawn.

I don't see them as getting together in the first year of the book. I'd certainly hope not. Just getting closer, and maybe TJ getting a bit jealous of that. Not necesarily romantic jealousy, but she and Cain must have got pretty close in Mojoworld, platonically. I see there being an underlying tension at times that could be read as possibly being something more, but in order for pairing off either of these couplings it will take a good couple of years of continuity to pull it off, convincingly.

Sage was close to Bishop--but who on the NEX team is even similiar to Bishop for her to feel comfortable enough around to even consider a relationship? Brian is off limits, Juggernaut is enamored with Dazzler, and Wisdom seems too arrogant for her to even consider.

Don't write of Mr Wisdom. He can be quite charming when he wants to be. just ask Kitty Pryde...:rolleyes:

But in all seriousness I'd like to see Wisdom have a go at Sage, but a fruitless one. It would be interesting to see him try his luck, but I think he needs a lot more expansion character wise. Hopefully the mini will help to remind us of just who Wisdom really is.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I think Marvel could have made a wiser decision by just putting it on hiatus.

Hi Fishtaco.

Have you read #10, yet?

I have to admit that after #9 I felt very much like your statement, but in light of this l;ast issue I've kind of changed my mind.

[Babylon23]

Why are there sooo many excuses for this book? First it's Whedon taking away that (no doubt) KILLER HFC story.

Well, this isn't an excuse, it's an acknowledged fact. The editors and CC have both stated this. Early interviews indicated that the HFC arc would dominate the first year of the book. Some readers, like myself, were excited by the idea of the story from Uncanny continuing here. You begrudge fans for being annoyed that this didn't come to pass.

Then it's the editors encroaching on CC's creativity. Then it's that this book isn't pushed like little darlings New Avengers (Bendis) or Astonishing X-Men (Whedon).

I agree that both of these are pointless arguments. It makes perfect business sense for Marvel to promote NA and Astonishing, as these books are big sellers for them. Also, CC is showing his creativity anyway, even without the HFC storyline.

Then it's CC is a slow-roaster and these plots will be so grand if we're just patient.

CC has only set up 2 overall plots. The Dark X-Men, Black Air and Courtney/Sat-Yr-9 are all tied together, as evidenced by the stories featuring these characters. There are plenty of hints and clues dropped as to what's happening. Almost all of the CC stories to date have dealt with this story, and several seemingly unrelated stories have now been connected together.

Then there's the Albion subplot.

Personally, I don't see the problem here. CC has set up one overrriding storyline in 8 issues, one that he'll complete when he returns. This is no different than Bru's 12 issue "rise and fall" storyline, or Whedon's 24 issue Breakworld.

Now it's Tieri's fault that the book is nuclear, and we need some more lovey-dovey Chris Claremont plots. Yeah, it's aggravating that Tieri is not using the actual cast in NEX, but CC was not much better. Remember the Psylocke Show? The Rachel Summers/Kitty Pryde showdown? Or howzabout random guest-star after guest-star from the Marvel UK?

Why wouldn't fans want to see the resolution of CC's plots, rather than a Chamber storyline carried over from another series.

As for the rest, all of the NEX cast have been featured prominantly in every issue CC has written. Just because you don't like the stories or the depiction of those characters, it doesn't mean they're not being used.

To date, there's been no guest appearances by any of the Marvel UK characters, so I don't understand your final point.

It's not like Teiri has tanked the book. It's just continuing its downward spiral. Chris himself needed to hit the ground running with this book, and he never really gave it a purpose, or established our protagonists.

I know that in your perfect world, this book would be cancelled, and Dazzler would have 5 titles of her own, none written by CC, but the fact is some of us actually like the book. This "downward spiral" is your opinion, and not everybody shares it.

Personally, I think CC established 2 reasons for the team's existence, one in Wisdom's statements for why he wants the team formed, and one in Captain Britain's speech from NEX #4. Once again, just because you don't like or agree with the reasons, it doesn't mean they're not there.

[fishtaco]

I think Novaya likes New Excalibur. He reads it, and he certainly talks about it a lot. ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

Once again, just because you don't like or agree with the reasons, it doesn't mean they're not there.

By the same token, just because you're in love with the writer and want to support his work, doesn't mean those reasons are present. Which is exactly why I said everyone was making excuses for the title, when it clearly:

A. Is purposeless.
B. Has an undynamic and haphazard cast.
C. Is a showroom for other plots that didn't get finished, rather than its own stories.
D. Would probably not be any better should Claremont have had supreme control of doom from day 1.

-B

[Beast]

I think Novaya likes New Excalibur. He reads it, and he certainly talks about it a lot. ;)
It's probably like the Bendis bashers, who only bash because it's 'cool' to do so.

[jester1436]

It's because he's a Dazzler completist.

I know being a Dazzler fan is a major component to why I get the book, though I love most of the cast. That said, I wouldn't complain if Magical Uber Amazing Do It All Supegirl Goddess Sage was put into a coma type situation. Or maybe merged with Shadow King and killed. Or just have someone tell her to suck it.

Though I don't hate her. :) I just think she needs to be knocked down a few pegs. Just a few.

Even though I have plenty of complaints, I still enjoy the book for what it is now, a fix for fave characters.

[Novaya Havoc]

It's probably like the Bendis bashers, who only bash because it's 'cool' to do so.

Sorry, honey. I don't find anything "cool" about "bashing" a comic book writer. I just call it like I see it.

It's not like I buy a lot of comics, anyway. I feel uncomfortable buying them, especially when people try to talk to me about them. I just need to get my dirty Dazzler fix and to go.

PS... Thanks, jester. ;)

[Beast]

It's because he's a Dazzler completist.

I know being a Dazzler fan is a major component to why I get the book, though I love most of the cast. That said, I wouldn't complain if Magical Uber Amazing Do It All Supegirl Goddess Sage was put into a coma type situation. Or maybe merged with Shadow King and killed. Or just have someone tell her to suck it.

Though I don't hate her. :) I just think she needs to be knocked down a few pegs. Just a few.

Even though I have plenty of complaints, I still enjoy the book for what it is now, a fix for fave characters.
Sage gets kicked around all the time. Just check out X-Treme X-Men to see that. Not to mention the Shadow King getting one over on her rather easily in NEX. Hell, CC even killed Sage in X-Men: The End.

[jester1436]

Sage gets kicked around all the time. Just check out X-Treme X-Men to see that. Not to mention the Shadow King getting one over on her rather easily in NEX. Hell, CC even killed Sage in X-Men: The End.

And those are/or could be some of my favorite Sage moments. :-P

I always liked her as Tessa, but I don't really dig the codename, I don't really like the semi-know-it-all persona she has now. I'd like a different approach to her as a hero. I guess I like that she's getting panel time, but I'm not enjoying her as much as I thought I would when she was revealed as an undercover X-Woman.

I never got into X-Treme until the very end, because I was regularly reading the books, I still tried to keep up. Her time on Uncanny really made me dislike her for all the complaints I mentioned. I'd like someone to legitimately one up her, not a Shadow King who I also think tends to be overinflated now. Another hero on their game just a little more than her.

(Almost) everyone died in The End. :-p

[Babylon23]

By the same token, just because you're in love with the writer and want to support his work, doesn't mean those reasons are present.

But the reasons are present. They're on the page, in the word balloons. An entire page at the end of issue 4 is devoted to Captain Britain asking the rest of the members to join the team. Several scenes are devoted to Wisdom explaining his desire for the team to form, including a conversation with Sage.

As I said, the reasons are present. You may not agree with them, or support them, but they're there on the page for all to see.

Which is exactly why I said everyone was making excuses for the title, when it clearly:

A. Is purposeless.

See above. The purpose is there, in writing.

B. Has an undynamic and haphazard cast.

I find the cast interesting. A group of characters brought together out of necessity, almost all of whom have never worked together before. It's a similar dynamic to what Bendis is doing on NA.

C. Is a showroom for other plots that didn't get finished, rather than its own stories.

The guy got kicked off Uncanny. It makes sense he'd bring plots over from that book.

D. Would probably not be any better should Claremont have had supreme control of doom from day 1.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. It's clear you're not a CC fan. Personally, I disagree with every point you've made.

[Beast]

The guy got kicked off Uncanny. It makes sense he'd bring plots over from that book.
Agreed with all your points. And NEX was started before he found out he was being kicked off. So he was using continuity between books to keep them feeling like they belong in the same universe. He did the same with Morrison's New X-Men, in X-Treme. HoM set up the need for Excalibur, and all the characters were brought together in a logical sense. The only actual plot that has been carried over is Psylocke, and that was simply because she was being ported over to Exiles.

[dotdotdot]

hey guy, i think he meant that the book's purpose is there in writing, but it's stupid and pointless and unconvincing and sucks.

not that the writer didn't try to give the team purpose.
effort isn't what counts.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

i kindofff wanted to start reading xcalibur, and i am wondering is it any good?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

By the same token, just because you're in love with the writer and want to support his work, doesn't mean those reasons are present.

Oh God, here we go again...

Novaya, I don't even read a huge 'love' for Claremont into any of Babylon's comment. We've been over why the editorial changes and Claremont's absence have caused problems for the title, over and over again. You can choose to ignore them again if you wish, but they're not excuses - they're explanations as to how the book has turned out as disjointed as it has, and more importantly where.

I personally do not see it as being bad, in spite of this. It still remains the book I'm most intersted in picking up each month, and I'm far from alone on this, either on this board, on other boards and far beyond. Just because it does not suit your vision of a Dazzler centric book does not mean it's poor. Far from it. That's only your opinion.

Which is exactly why I said everyone was making excuses for the title, when it clearly:

A. Is purposeless.

Again with this twaddle!

How many times does it have to be stated? Wisdom gave his purpose at the start of the second arc, and Brian stated it again at the end of it. It's there. In speech. Twice.

This team is clearing up and looking out for Great Britain in light of so many of its former herores having been depowered, and in light of those, such as Black Air making a power play, trying to take advantage of that situation.

The Dark X-Men were part of that. Black Air were part of that. Chamber was part of that.

Everything fits. Everything has been amply explained. But I fear that if Chris Cloaremont himself, took time out and came round to your house, explained it all in full and thorough detail, drawing diagrams and making notes for you to keep for reference on the who purpose of the title and how it fits the issues, you would stil - at the first opportunity - come on here and post this bollocks anyway...:rolleyes:

B. Has an undynamic and haphazard cast.

In your opinion. I happen to think that the cast has a heck of a lot of possibilities.

Wisdom and Cap constantly vying for control of the team. Juggernaut's want to get closer to Ali. TJ's jealousy that her only real friend in this reality is spending less time with her. Wisdom trying it on with Sage, even though she's clearly out of his league.

And of course, if they keep it, Brian's long term friendship with Dane.

There's plenty to work with, plenty of room for both action and character development. Noe just because that development might not be the same development you WANT. But that doesn't automatically make it worthless.

C. Is a showroom for other plots that didn't get finished, rather than its own stories.

In the case of the Chamber story I would partially agree, if there is no intention of continuing with him. But as for bringing Courtney Ross over? Well this is effectively the title which people know her best from, and it makes sense her being back in Britain. And as for your constant Psylocke rant? This is here because Claremont and Joe Q were talking quite a while abut doing a crossover between the two titles due to the former cast relationships between the two.

And yes, that does mean a Dazzler/Longshot reunion. And while you doubtless don't like that it does make absolute perfect sense to most X-Fans.

D. Would probably not be any better should Claremont have had supreme control of doom from day 1.

-B

Well, apart from finally getting to write a Hellfire Club story to resolve the mess of conflicting informatio that has been made over the whole thing in the last decade. I think had the words 'Hellfire Club' flashed up on the previews I think an awful lot of X-Fans who'd never even thought of reading the title would have picked it up just because of that.

And again, i reiterate, you might not like the series but an awful lot of love it, and continue to enjoy it. And not because we adore Claremont. OFten I don't (See also, Nightcrawler the pries and Cecilia Reyes getting hooked on a never before mentioned made up drug). I just like the title because it offers something the other books currently don't.

An almost fresh landscape in the MU that has barely been used for a decade, an interesting mix of characters who you wouldn't normally put together, a number of ongoing plots, and an overiding purpose ten times more interesting than simply 'We're mutants therefore we should have a series'.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

i kindofff wanted to start reading xcalibur, and i am wondering is it any good?

It is good. It has a lot to offer.

Pick up the House of M issues of Uncanny and then the first trade of New Excalibur.

The reason it has been given such strange press is largely because of people not liking how they've changed Dazzler. Everything else works okay. It's not really a mutant book, but it is central to M-Day and Decimation.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Agreed with all your points. And NEX was started before he found out he was being kicked off. So he was using continuity between books to keep them feeling like they belong in the same universe. He did the same with Morrison's New X-Men, in X-Treme. HoM set up the need for Excalibur, and all the characters were brought together in a logical sense. The only actual plot that has been carried over is Psylocke, and that was simply because she was being ported over to Exiles.

Exactly. It's just a shame that some people seem so fantastically blinded by their own agenda that they can ignore all of that.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

It is good. It has a lot to offer.

Pick up the House of M issues of Uncanny and then the first trade of New Excalibur.

The reason it has been given such strange press is largely because of people not liking how they've changed Dazzler. Everything else works okay. It's not really a mutant book, but it is central to M-Day and Decimation.

What issue number is that? And is it a good idea to read it from the very first issue? Also is there anything else i need to read?

[Babylon23]

So Beast, Sword is Drawn and myself can see how each of the seemingly seperate plot points are tying together - Black Air, Dark X-Men/Shadow King, Sat-Yr-9/Courtney. I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees method in CC's madness. There's clearly something bigger going down in NEX.

Novaya, I don't even read a huge 'love' for Claremont into any of Babylon's comment.

Thanks Sword. I admit to being a CC fan, but I'm more than happy to complain about stories of his that I don't like. I just happen to love his issues of NEX.

How many times does it have to be stated? Wisdom gave his purpose at the start of the second arc, and Brian stated it again at the end of it. It's there. In speech. Twice.

See! I'm not delusional:D It's there on the page.

Wisdom and Cap constantly vying for control of the team. Juggernaut's want to get closer to Ali. TJ's jealousy that her only real friend in this reality is spending less time with her. Wisdom trying it on with Sage, even though she's clearly out of his league.

Some nice summaries here. What I'm hoping to see is Sage's attempt to control the team, and Wisdom's response. You know she'll try to take charge eventually.

And of course, if they keep it, Brian's long term friendship with Dane.

I really hope this comes to pass. As a disgruntled Avengers fan still reeling from Disassembled, I'd love to see one of the "classic" Avengers members given a new home in a book I love.

And yes, that does mean a Dazzler/Longshot reunion. And while you doubtless don't like that it does make absolute perfect sense to most X-Fans.

Don't go there. It's not safe.

And again, i reiterate, you might not like the series but an awful lot of love it, and continue to enjoy it. And not because we adore Claremont. OFten I don't (See also, Nightcrawler the pries and Cecilia Reyes getting hooked on a never before mentioned made up drug). I just like the title because it offers something the other books currently don't.

Once again, I'm glad I'm not the only person who gains enjoyment from NEX.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

What issue number is that? And is it a good idea to read it from the very first issue? Also is there anything else i need to read?

The Uncanny X-Men issues you are looking for are #462-465, the 'Season of the Witch' storyline, available as a TPB as Season of the Witch (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078511663X/sr=8-2/qid=1154942960/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2128197-5601400?ie=UTF8).

This is really the set up for New Excalibur, followed by the first NEX TPB Defenders of the Realm (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785118357/sr=1-1/qid=1154943119/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2128197-5601400?ie=UTF8&s=books)

The series is so far up to issue 10. While some knowledge of the former Excalibur is helpful it is not essential. They are currently reprinting 'Classic' Excalibur in TPB as well, with two volumes available.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hi Babylon,

You're not alone in liking the series, that's for sure.

I don't think anybody can pretend the events Claremont plotted so far (i.e. up to the end of the Psylocke issue) weren't interconnected. It's all pretty obvious. Even though it was the Shadow King who brought the Dark X-Men through in an attempt to lure out Psylocke, it was Black Air who walked away with them. And you can bet they had something to do with freezing Courtney/Sat-yr-9's assets, too. If they're intent on taking over Britain again then she's just the kind of opposition who needs removing.

The only stories not to be connected directly to this would be the Albion/Lionheart tale, and the Warwolves. The Warwolves breaking out could either be a nod to the oroginal or, later, having received word from Mojo to try and get TJ, Cain or Dazzler back. We'll have to wait and see. It seems likely this concept was added in order to stretch the LIonheart plot to two issues, covering the originally intended story, but that doesn't mean it can't be expanded on later.

Lionheart/Albion is a seperate issue. Brian thinks that they too are trapped on Earth 616 since M day, and may also have had access to Otherworld, despite not having any more. That's the secondary story arc. I can't help feelintg it was brought forward to fill the void, but it's still a good idea.

It all fits together. But I guess that if you hate a 'concept' enough, no matter how well it's thought through it's not going to be for you. I don't expect everybody to like the title, but if you're going to criticize it it has to be in a manner that can't be so easily disproved.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

The Uncanny X-Men issues you are looking for are #462-465, the 'Season of the Witch' storyline, available as a TPB as Season of the Witch (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078511663X/sr=8-2/qid=1154942960/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2128197-5601400?ie=UTF8).

This is really the set up for New Excalibur, followed by the first NEX TPB Defenders of the Realm (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785118357/sr=1-1/qid=1154943119/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2128197-5601400?ie=UTF8&s=books)

The series is so far up to issue 10. While some knowledge of the former Excalibur is helpful it is not essential. They are currently reprinting 'Classic' Excalibur in TPB as well, with two volumes available.

Ok thx...i will defenetly check it out

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

By the same token, just because you're in love with the writer and want to support his work, doesn't mean those reasons are present. Which is exactly why I said everyone was making excuses for the title, when it clearly:

A. Is purposeless.
B. Has an undynamic and haphazard cast.
C. Is a showroom for other plots that didn't get finished, rather than its own stories.
D. Would probably not be any better should Claremont have had supreme control of doom from day 1.

-B

Oh for the love of-!

Novoya Havoc how can you keep on calling this bvook purposeless!? Even when so many people point out exactly what the porpose is, and exactly where it is stated, over and over and over again!

It's maddening.

You only seem to come on here half the time to slang at the book on the most incredibly two dimunsional surface level.

This wasn't a 'guesting Excalibur' issue in the slightest. It was a solid issue with some good character work, and a brilliant set up for something more. You're just using excuses for slagging the book off that each might have been valid for one issue a piece, but certainly not for the whole series. And you just keep hammering away, repeating the same garbage with each issue, hoping that somewhere it will stick.

You don't like the book. We get that.

But this isn't a thread about your opinions on the series, it's a thread about #10. Which had a purpose, showed the team working together, was not just a showroom - but a prospective attempt at logical recruitment to the team, and while it wasn't part of Claremont's plan does not feel like a radical deviation.

What more could you want? What more do you expect?

Oh yes, Dazzler with long hair in a jump suit. Well, I'm afraid that's only going to be happening when she's performing, as #8 showed us. Get over it, and move on...

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

hey guy, i think he meant that the book's purpose is there in writing, but it's stupid and pointless and unconvincing and sucks.

not that the writer didn't try to give the team purpose.
effort isn't what counts.

And yet quite a lot of people think that the writing does have purpose, and gains more every single issue.

To write it off would be to ignore a heck of a lot of continuity now. You just can't do that. It's all there.

[Babylon23]

Hi Babylon,

You're not alone in liking the series, that's for sure.

Hi Sword,

Yeah, there's a few of us here. You, myself, Beast, Fishtaco, Apocalypse. I'm just a little tired of hearing about how much CC sucks, how pointless the book is, and how bad the depiction of Dazzler is. I can sympathise with the Dazzler fans, having had so many of my favourite characters screwed with, but after awhile, it gets a little tiring for me. I come here to talk about what's in the title, not to attack it. I'm sure you can relate.

I don't think anybody can pretend the events Claremont plotted so far (i.e. up to the end of the Psylocke issue) weren't interconnected. It's all pretty obvious. Even though it was the Shadow King who brought the Dark X-Men through in an attempt to lure out Psylocke, it was Black Air who walked away with them. And you can bet they had something to do with freezing Courtney/Sat-yr-9's assets, too. If they're intent on taking over Britain again then she's just the kind of opposition who needs removing.

Exactly. It's also good to remember that the Dark X-Men were chasing one of Courtney's employees in issue 1. It's all building to something big.

The only stories not to be connected directly to this would be the Albion/Lionheart tale, and the Warwolves. The Warwolves breaking out could either be a nod to the oroginal or, later, having received word from Mojo to try and get TJ, Cain or Dazzler back. We'll have to wait and see. It seems likely this concept was added in order to stretch the LIonheart plot to two issues, covering the originally intended story, but that doesn't mean it can't be expanded on later.

Actually, I'm not convinced the Warwolves story isn't connected. In issue 5, one of the Warwolves fleeing Sage and Wisdom makes the comment "we'll fulfill the contract another day". Now this could mean Mojo, of course, but I'm leaning towards Black Air. Black Air could have arranged for the release of the Warwolves, and given them the contract on NEX.

Lionheart/Albion is a seperate issue. Brian thinks that they too are trapped on Earth 616 since M day, and may also have had access to Otherworld, despite not having any more. That's the secondary story arc. I can't help feelintg it was brought forward to fill the void, but it's still a good idea.

See, when people criticise CC's lack of creativity, I point ot this Albion idea. He's extrapolated something from the Captain Britain mythos, something that's never really come up before - What is the difference between those who choose the amulet and those who choose the sword? What happens to the sword Captains, given that the Corps have always been acknowledged as amulet choosers.

As a Captain Britain fan, I'm fascinated by this concept. It's amazing nobody's really brought it up before.

Plus, Brian's comment about a potential "war across dimesnions" in issue 8 has me excited. Corps vs. anti-Corps could be huge.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

See, when people criticise CC's lack of creativity, I point ot this Albion idea. He's extrapolated something from the Captain Britain mythos, something that's never really come up before - What is the difference between those who choose the amulet and those who choose the sword? What happens to the sword Captains, given that the Corps have always been acknowledged as amulet choosers.

As a Captain Britain fan, I'm fascinated by this concept. It's amazing nobody's really brought it up before.

Plus, Brian's comment about a potential "war across dimesnions" in issue 8 has me excited. Corps vs. anti-Corps could be huge.

Totally. Let us not forget that back in 2000 the ranks of the amulet choosing Corps were pretty badly damaged. Crusader X and Hauptmann England were still around but a lot of the other Captains had been done away with by the Mastermind computer.

It goes without saying that more Captains could have been created to replace the fallen, but as Brian was Monarch of Otherworld he would have had to create them, as he did with Kelsey Leigh.

a) How many he would have created. Did he fill every void while he was Monarch of Otherworld, or was this something he never got round to?

and

b) Knowing what he now does, I wonder how many of those he created chose the Sword?

Just a thought.

[fishtaco]

I wish Kitty was in this book. That way, Claremont can resolve her Soul Sword connection with Illyana (Uncanny X-Men #203, Excalibur #7, New Mutants #30), and the plot where Sat-Yr-9 wants Kitty as her heir, following Kitty's departure from the rest of the team in the middle of the Cross-Time Caper. Claremont might not be able to resolve his plots in a completely solid fashion much anymore, but I would still like to see all this to some level higher than that one line in New Excalibur #1, where Sat-yr-9 tells Kitty that the two of them are more alike then she will ever know. Anything to get Kitty out of Astonishing X-Men would be great. She belongs on this team, not with Cyclops and the White Queen. Yeugh!

[Daithi]

I wish Kitty was in this book. That way, Claremont can resolve her Soul Sword connection with Illyana (Uncanny X-Men #203, Excalibur #7, New Mutants #30), and the plot where Sat-Yr-9 wants Kitty as her heir, following Kitty's departure from the rest of the team in the middle of the Cross-Time Caper. Claremont might not be able to resolve his plots in a completely solid fashion much anymore, but I would still like to see all this to some level higher than that one line in New Excalibur #1, where Sat-yr-9 tells Kitty that the two of them are more alike then she will ever know. Anything to get Kitty out of Astonishing X-Men would be great. She belongs on this team, not with Cyclops and the White Queen. Yeugh!

Dear god in heaven no! Leave Kitty away from Claremont. The other characters need some characterization first. Can't have Claremont's Saint Kitty taking over the book. Also the last thing we need is more Excalibur plots dredged up.

[Babylon23]

I wish Kitty was in this book. That way, Claremont can resolve her Soul Sword connection with Illyana (Uncanny X-Men #203, Excalibur #7, New Mutants #30), and the plot where Sat-Yr-9 wants Kitty as her heir, following Kitty's departure from the rest of the team in the middle of the Cross-Time Caper. Claremont might not be able to resolve his plots in a completely solid fashion much anymore, but I would still like to see all this to some level higher than that one line in New Excalibur #1, where Sat-yr-9 tells Kitty that the two of them are more alike then she will ever know. Anything to get Kitty out of Astonishing X-Men would be great. She belongs on this team, not with Cyclops and the White Queen. Yeugh!

I'd love to see CC writing Kitty again. Whedon's Kitty regression is gettting old very quickly. CC was doing some excellent work with Kitty in X-Treme/Mechanix, and I'd love to see that work continue.

Of course, it's never going to happen.

[Beast]

I'd love to see CC writing Kitty again. Whedon's Kitty regression is gettting old very quickly. CC was doing some excellent work with Kitty in X-Treme/Mechanix, and I'd love to see that work continue.

Of course, it's never going to happen.
Agreed. I think Whedon's just suffering from a 'Fanboy Crush' on Kitty, but really hasn't done much with her or Colossus that fits with all the development they have recieved over the years. Kitty is finally doing something 'badass' in regard to dealing with the so-called HFC. Piotr hasn't done much of anything at all. It seems to be more that Whedon wanted him back from a sense of nostaligia, but isn't sure what to do with him.

[fishtaco]

Dear god in heaven no! Leave Kitty away from Claremont. The other characters need some characterization first. Can't have Claremont's Saint Kitty taking over the book. Also the last thing we need is more Excalibur plots dredged up.Since Claremont created Kitty, I think that he has a good, if not excellent sense of her characterization, as opposed to what we are seeing in another certain book. And yes, there are a few other characters who can be written better, too. Oh, and what's wrong with Excalibur plots? You realize that this book is Excalibur, right? If Excalibur plots shouldn't be in Excalibur, then where? :rolleyes:

[Babylon23]

Oh, and what's wrong with Excalibur plots? You realize that this book is Excalibur, right? If Excalibur plots shouldn't be in Excalibur, then where? :rolleyes:

Exactly. It's not like Sat-Yr-9, Warwolves or Black Air are being used anywhere else. They're Excalibur villains. This is where they should be.

[Daithi]

Oh, and what's wrong with Excalibur plots? You realize that this book is Excalibur, right? If Excalibur plots shouldn't be in Excalibur, then where? :rolleyes:

In the past? Warwolves? I thought Mojo sent them to track down Rachel. What's Rachel got to do with New Excalibur now? Plus shouldn't they be back in Mojorworld?

Sat-Yr-9? Didn't Alan Davis resolve that plot back in Excalibur 54-55? Why am I seeing it again. Why is Brian confused about blondie again?

Black Air, I'm fine with though.

The last thing this books needs is a run through Excalibur's classic hits.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

In the past? Warwolves? I thought Mojo sent them to track down Rachel. What's Rachel got to do with New Excalibur now? Plus shouldn't they be back in Mojorworld?

Well apart from having been a founding member of Excalibur, and having fought off the Warwolves more than a few times in her life so far. Oh and starring in the first arc of this new title, as well as all of the New Excalibur House of M setup issues in Uncanny.

But other than all that, no, Rachel has no link to Excalibur...:rolleyes: :D

Sat-Yr-9? Didn't Alan Davis resolve that plot back in Excalibur 54-55? Why am I seeing it again. Why is Brian confused about blondie again?

Because Sat-yr-9 never went away. After we last saw her in Davis' Excalibur she continued to go around pretending to be the late Courtney Ross.

In House of M when Brian returned to Earth 616, and before he was absorbed into Wanda's lie, he rounded on the Courtney Ross of House of M, accusing her of being Sat-yr-9. Only she wasn't. In House of M she genuinely WAS Courtney Ross.

Since House of M ended, the woman who claims to be Courtney Ross on Earth 616 has been hanging around Brian a lot. But it's totally unclear as to whether she IS Sat-yr-9 or whether she genuinely IS Courtney Ross. There is the possibility that the Courtney of House of M satayed that way when Wanda tried to switch everything back.

It's really unclear right now, but that's why your reading it aain.

And as for Kitty? Well, we all know Claremont wanted her for this title, but he knew he couldn't have her. Kitty belongs in Excalibur. At best she is only a bit player in X-Men. But in Excalibur shewas always a central character. It's the place that she got the best exposure and character development so far, and I so wish that we could have had her staying on after the first arc.

The whole Sat-yr-9 'heir' storyline from Excalibur would have been interesting to pick up on, yes. But we'll never see it while Whedon is on Astonishing.

Black Air, I'm fine with though.

Me too. I cannot wait to see where Claremont goes with this.

The last thing this books needs is a run through Excalibur's classic hits.

While I admit the need for new stories and concepts I see nothing wrong at all with Claremont picking up on some loose plotlines. There were plently left from the original Excalibur, and it would make sense to follow them up, providing the characters involved are still available.

[X-Factor]

Since Claremont created Kitty, I think that he has a good, if not excellent sense of her characterization, as opposed to what we are seeing in another certain book. And yes, there are a few other characters who can be written better, too. Oh, and what's wrong with Excalibur plots? You realize that this book is Excalibur, right? If Excalibur plots shouldn't be in Excalibur, then where? :rolleyes:

New Excalibur.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

New Excalibur.

I wonder how long it will take to drop that 'New' tag?

[Novaya Havoc]

New Excalibur.

So few words, yet such an apt observation. Kudos.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yep, all of those Excalibur ideas belong in New Excalibur. They've been nomadically drifting around in the ether for the better part of a decade, and now they have a place they can be written in again.

[Daithi]

Well apart from having been a founding member of Excalibur, and having fought off the Warwolves more than a few times in her life so far. Oh and starring in the first arc of this new title, as well as all of the New Excalibur House of M setup issues in Uncanny.


Yes but what does she have to do with the issue when the warwolves showed up? That's all that matters. What were the point of warwolves other than "It's Excalibur. We have to have warwolves".

Also the warwolves were supposed to be in the Mojoworld again after their failed attempt to capture Rachel. Not "in the zoo".

Personally this trip around Classic Excalibur can't be good for New Excalibur. It doesn't give the team their own purpose. It invites too many comparions with the original stories. But hey, I eagerly await the story where we Vixen shows up again and explains why she wanted to capture Colin again.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yes but what does she have to do with the issue when the warwolves showed up? That's all that matters. What were the point of warwolves other than "It's Excalibur. We have to have warwolves".

Okay, let's just make this clear, which Warwolves issue are we actually talking about here? :D

If we're talking from Original Excalibur the link is obvious.

If we're talking New Excalibur, yes she does not play a part directly in that story. Because she had returned to the states.

Although, in all honesty and given half the chance to, you know that the Warwolves wouldn't pass up on any opportunity of capturing Rachel Summers, and returning her to Mojo.

With Dazzler, TJ and Cain on the team youy know it's only a matter of time before a Mojo story takes place.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Also the warwolves were supposed to be in the Mojoworld again after their failed attempt to capture Rachel. Not "in the zoo".

I have not read the Fantastic Four Issue that last dealt with the Warwolves. I understand that there might be a continuity error here.

Personally this trip around Classic Excalibur can't be good for New Excalibur. It doesn't give the team their own purpose. It invites too many comparions with the original stories. But hey, I eagerly await the story where we Vixen shows up again and explains why she wanted to capture Colin again.

I'm not sure quite what you are refering to there. So far the only real note of nostalgia has been the Warwolves, and guest appearances by the old cast. Since then these have all been new stories. Black Air revival. Lionheart and Albion. Dark X-Men/Shadow King. Chamber.

And now the Black Knight. And in some eways there is a little nostalgia there. But more for the late 70s than anything else. I thing acknowledging the old Cap/Dane partnership can only be a good thing.

And yes, proving he doesn't get snubbed out in Civil War: X-Men I hope someday we get a proper explanation over Kylun.

[Daithi]

I have not read the Fantastic Four Issue that last dealt with the Warwolves. I understand that there might be a continuity error here.


It's actually an Excalibur issue in which the warwolves were last seen posing as the X-Men and then being packed off to Mojo.


I'm not sure quite what you are refering to there. So far the only real note of nostalgia has been the Warwolves, and guest appearances by the old cast. Since then these have all been new stories. Black Air revival. Lionheart and Albion. Dark X-Men/Shadow King. Chamber.


Okay #1-3 - old cast is present. Nazi...Shadow X-Men are present.
Then warwolves.
Also the Brian and Courtney dance.

That's about 5-6 issues out of 10!

How can the Black Air revival be called new? What if they called themselves the new "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants".


And now the Black Knight. And in some eways there is a little nostalgia there. But more for the late 70s than anything else. I thing acknowledging the old Cap/Dane partnership can only be a good thing.


Okay that's not a Excalibur plot. However so far we've done a greatest hits tour (Part 1) of Excalibur, coupled with Chamber and the Black Knight.

Where's the focus on Nocturne, Dazzler, Juggernaught of Sage? I know Claremont's health problems and prevented some of this but still. The book is only just starting and so far most of the cast are just guest stars.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It's actually an Excalibur issue in which the warwolves were last seen posing as the X-Men and then being packed off to Mojo.

Actually, no. That wasn't the last time thery were seen. And it was a Claremont continuity error that spawned it. Forgetting that he'd returned them to Mojoworld Claremont had them breaking out of London Zoo during his run on Fantastic Four in the late 90s, along with guest appearances from the Technet and the Captain Britain Corps. I have the Technet issues, but I have only heard about the Warwolves issue that came before.

Okay #1-3 - old cast is present. Nazi...Shadow X-Men are present.

But as this has been explained this was a ruse from the Shadow King, who managed to pick his way back to Earth 616 while Wanda was messing up the boundary of 616 with House of M. The Dark X-Men were just the X-Men of that world twisted by the Shadow King.

It's a different story than Hauptman England's Lightning Force from those early issues of Excalibur. The original X-Men were not shown, even as alternates for a good many issues of the original Excalibur.

Then warwolves.

Warwolves played a big part in original Excalibur. Although here they have not been explained. I suspect they were thrown in late on, when Claremont had to rewrite and stretch the Lionheart issue into two.

Also the B