Phoenix: War Song Variant Cover

[Volk1]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8034


I'm crazy for Cuckoo-pops! :D

I like it. I'm liking more and more of this because of the connection between Cuckoo-Phoenix-Emma.

I definitely want to see Phoenix-Emma interaction, but I also want to see which, if not all, Cuckoo's are Phoenix-influnced. Mindee's been shown to be the "leader" of the three, maybe she'll be the one that's most influenced.

Any ideas guys?:confused:


BTW, I'm loving that Beast on the regular cover. One of the best in his cat-form IMHO.:)

[Brian M.]

I can't wait for this book.

[Madrox84]

Looks cool, this book might be interesting... But i'm a bit burnt out when it comes to Phoenix stories.

[Armless Penguin]

I'm so not looking forward to this book. I'll still probably read it, but it's just . . . eh, I mean, come on.

[That JonoGuy]

Wow! That is one awesome variant. Much better than the normal cover. Silvestri never really impressed me much.

[Callisto]

i love the cuckoos i just hope they aren't revealed to be something stupid like clones of one telepathic girl or robots or something stupid like that.

[Dioces]

Maybe they'll be robotic clones?

[kate-pryde]

I greatly dislike the Cuckoos and hope they have absolutely nothing to do with the Phoenix force.

How can there be two Phoenix mini-series and Rachel isn't involved in either of them?

[jeangreydp]

Is Jean even going to be in this facking thing?

If that c**t gets the Phoenix force again I will freak out. Emma Frost is going to get told by my fist full of keys.

[rilokyle]

Is Jean even going to be in this facking thing?

If that c**t gets the Phoenix force again I will freak out. Emma Frost is going to get told by my fist full of keys.
What Liz said.

Although I am excited to see how this series pans out.

[MrSuslov]

Any chance to read the further adventures of Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force. Here's hoping it's good. On the other hand, more money to spend, but at least there's a solid chance of an appearance by my far and away favorite Marvel character. Can't have something about the Phoenix without the Phoenix.

Still...rackum frackum etc. The Stepford Cuckoos remind me of that Decepticon reconnaissance unit, Reflector. All they need to do now is speak in unison...

[Armless Penguin]

Didn't they say it wasn't going to be "another Jean Grey revival story" at some point?

Bah, I'd rather see Jean.

[Brian M.]

Is Jean even going to be in this facking thing?

If that c**t gets the Phoenix force again I will freak out. Emma Frost is going to get told by my fist full of keys.

Is there anything in comics you and I don't see eye to eye on ?

[Volk1]

Is Jean even going to be in this facking thing?

If that c**t gets the Phoenix force again I will freak out. Emma Frost is going to get told by my fist full of keys.

If I remember, Jean wasn't going to be in at all, or not a lot at least.

I just want to know how Emma is related to the Cuckoo's. They're Weapon X projects, we've got that down. But how in the heck do they have that connection to Emma besides looking like mini Emma's? Is she they're surrogate mom or something?

It's kinda funny that it's a Phoenix mini and it seems like Emma's going to be in it moreso than Jean....but I could be wrong.

[X-Factor]

I look forward to the Cuckoos getting panel time, but I am unsure of Pak's ability to make them interesting like they once were.

Too early to judge on that front though, mates, but anything with Jean Grey has my dollars.

I, however, immensely dispise her "daughter". I hope her inclusion will be non-existent or at least something near that spectrum.

[Bart Simpson]

What, they couldn't call this for what it really seems to be? "The Adventures of Sac of Silicone" or "Frostitute: Wh***song". A Phoenix story where Jean might not even appear and it's "an important story for Emma" but is somehow still important to Jean? Sounds like stringing the Jean fans along to once again push Emma:confused: :mad:

What does Marvel have against redheads anyways. Poor MJ. She's next.:(

[Rachel Grey]

Puts Emma's head in a blender and annihilates the Cuckoos for good measure.

[X-Factor]

I like Emma Frost, but I concur with you all that this is not the place for her story to be told. It is Phoenix: Warsong, but perhaps because of Endsong (and continuing with the previous writer) they feel this is the place.

I am also unconfident about how the Phoenix Force will be thrown around like a basketball.

In my confined little world, I would have Jean possess the Phoenix Force and her alone.

[Nobbel]

The Cuckoos look so very spruce but oh so hot on this cover, or is it just me who thinks so?

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/news/warsong1v.jpg

[FieryBalrog]

I'm probably going to really hate this. Stop abusing our favorite fiery bird.

[The Fury]

Puts Emma's head in a blender and annihilates the Cuckoos for good measure.
*Turns on blender more after*

After Endsong, and seeing and reading some of that, I will not be picking this up. The last mini could have nearly been considered 'out-of'. This probably will as well.

And my disliking of the Cukcoos does not help. What they have to do with Phoenix I do not know.

[Elegance Liberty]

I'm probably going to really hate this. Stop abusing our favorite fiery bird.

Second'd and bolded for emphasis.

I was going to have this mini on my pull list (which will have Runaways, Nextwave, Ms. Marvel and Annihilation), but I'm having second thoughts now. Methinks I'll just read spoilers before buying to see if it'll be worth it.

[TinMan]

What they have to do with Phoenix I do not know.

Probably something that this mini will address I'm guessing, seeing as how the little Phoenix bug landed on one of them at the end of "Endsong".

I for one wish the Phoenix idea would just die or be reserved strictly for cosmic stuff. I've said it before and I'll say it again: a cosmic power designed to create/destroy life should not be limited to Earth, its a big universe where that power should be put to use, not just fighting for mutant rights on ONE planet. Bring Jean back, give her her own series and make her travel the universe righting wrongs, not being selfish and only providing one planet w/ her power, especially now that she accepts and realizes that no matter what she is the Phoenix. Jean now understands its unavoidable, so she should go do the job she was destined to.

I just hope this does something interesting w/ the Phoenix because the concept has become extremely stale and convoluted, it needs something new to enhance it.

[Titan76]

Emma Frost and her mini me's in another Phoenix story even though the Phoenix has nothing to do with them huh......:rolleyes:. I know for sure now I will pass on this.

[Leaper Queen]

I like the sound of it! I'll buy it!

[ibrakeforchinwe]

AJTR5trhbgfvjgtjv norg35rfcv WTF!?

Wheres JEAN!?

[Brian M.]

AJTR5trhbgfvjgtjv norg35rfcv WTF!?

Wheres JEAN!?


Sadly...I don't think she'll make a big appearance maybe at the end of the series who knows. This makes me sad. I just want her back in MU.

[Tilt]

My thoughts exactly. Where is Jean? Why should I care about this if she's not involved? I only bought the first and last issue of Endsong to see if Jean showed up and that one panel with Rachel...who I'm sure would be one of the first people (along with Cable, Wolverine, and the Professor) *after* Scott to know if Jean or the Phoenix was doing anything at all. Like in "The End"...

The Phoenix is overused and the concept convoluted, give it a rest for a while and stop giving it out to other people like it's an outfit or something. It's like having everybody and anybody picking up the Soulsword. It shouldn't even be possible and contradicts previous continuity.


Bleh..keeping my cash in my pocket even though the cover looks great and I do enjoy the characters featured.

[Brian M.]

I don't see how you can bring Jean back and the Phoenix and not have Rachel there. I'd think she'd be a lil important to the story.

[MDactor1980]

The Cuckoos variant cover looks kind of like a demented Nancy Drew cover... but i like it.

[Mariah]

Puts Emma's head in a blender and annihilates the Cuckoos for good measure.
I concur, this is the only thing to do. It's only fair after all.

[steve2275]

i really LIKE the uniforms

[Absolut_Fresh]

Joe Quesada is a moron.

He refuses to allow Jean to be resurected due to some personal hate of the character, but allows aspects of her to continue to be raped and misused all for the sake of a buck. and before someone inevitably tells me "this is a business they are out to make money" blah blah blah, let me say that this is a character i am very passionate about and to see things like this really bothers me....business or otherwise.

[Brian M.]

Joe Quesada is a moron.

He refuses to allow Jean to be resurected due to some personal hate of the character, but allows aspects of her to continue to be raped and misused all for the sake of a buck. and before someone inevitably tells me "this is a business they are out to make money" blah blah blah, let me say that this is a character i am very passionate about and to see things like this really bothers me....business or otherwise.

Yea I know. Brubaker has said that he really wants to bring Jean back that he has a special place for the Original Team I'm hoping he can get the chance to do something. His resurrection story in Captain America is great.

[DDM]

I greatly dislike the Cuckoos and hope they have absolutely nothing to do with the Phoenix force.

How can there be two Phoenix mini-series and Rachel isn't involved in either of them?

Marvel wants Jean Grey to be Phoenix. Rachel Summers should be Phoenix, but editorial politics is keeping Jean Grey to be Phoenix.

[DDM]

The Cuckoos look so very spruce but oh so hot on this cover, or is it just me who thinks so?

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/news/warsong1v.jpg

I love the varient cover, but I'm not buying Phoenix Warsong after the disasterous Phoenix Endsong.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

I love the varient cover, but I'm not buying Phoenix Warsong after the disasterous Phoenix Endsong.

Of course you will. We all will end up buying it.

[kate-pryde]

Marvel wants Jean Grey to be Phoenix. Rachel Summers should be Phoenix, but editorial politics is keeping Jean Grey to be Phoenix.

I 100% agree. There's no reason Rachel shouldn't be Phoenix.

I can understand not resurrecting Jean, since it's becoming a joke how many times she's been reborn/resurrected. (Then why allow her to be killed off in the first place?)

But the editorial B.S. about Rachel is ridiculous.

Back in 1994 when Excalibur 75 came out there were a bunch of rumors circulating about the editorial crap that was rumored to be the reason behind Rachel being written out and Jean getting the Phoenix name back. I'm not sure if those are true, but with how Rachel's been treated since her return, I tend to believe that all editors at Marvel absolutely hate Ray.

[Daithi]

Marvel wants Jean Grey to be Phoenix. Rachel Summers should be Phoenix, but editorial politics is keeping Jean Grey to be Phoenix.

As much as I like Rachel she shouldn't be Phoenix. Jean should. Phoenix is too much of an albatross around your neck. As much as people like to comment on how the Phoenix dies only to be reborn, there's the fact that the Phoenix has to die first and quite frankly I don't want Rachel back to limbo again.

[Dioces]

I don't think either of them should be Phoenix. There's just too much Phoenix in the marvel universe, I need a break from it

[DDM]

Of course you will. We all will end up buying it.

No, I won't buy the book.

[fishtaco]

Of course you will. We all will end up buying it.How about this: I don't like the cover, I won't be picking up the book, and I won't be picking up the book. I don't even want to know what happens, because I don't want brain damage from the wanking that's going to be in this book.

I have noticed how this time, Marvel has not said anything about Phoenix Warsong being the "last Phoenix story", although they said this about Phoenix Endsong. Marvel has become so money-hungry that they'll recklessly sacrifice anything to get the highest profit possible (which isn't even that high).

[UltimateCyclops]

You don't want to know what happens to the Phoenix? Seems slightly contradictory to that petition in your signature.

[Mariah]

You don't want to know what happens to the Phoenix? Seems slightly contradictory to that petition in your signature.
Wrong Phoenix. He wants the Rachel Phoenix, but i don't want Rachel to be Phoenix, I like her the way she is now, a teen girl trying to find herself, instead of dont' worry, I got this, I'm the Phoenix after all.

[xmanson]

Ew.

Another Phoenix story? No, thank you, I feel I have read anough for about 3 encarnations.

[Gene M.]

I know this might sound weird coming from someone who generally comes across as a sexual deviant, but I think the Cuckoos are looking a little too sexed up on that cover. Looking at that book makes me feel like I should get busted by Dateline NBC for being a pederast.

[Verydopey]

forgive me if i act like a noob, but i'm fairly new to x-men comics. saying that. endsong was the first comic i read... confused me no end, but i enjoyed it.

i personally dont think jean should be ressurected. she's been brought back SO many times, it's very redundant, and just feels... well... there's no feeling in it anymore. its just a "oo lets bring her back!" move and it means nothing.

i think rachel needs to move on from her "Teen girl trying to find herself" thing, its getting tired, i read it in an interview about uncanny (at the mo), every uncanny book i've read with rachel in it, she's just so hollow... she first appeared in 1981... thats more than 20 years ago, and she's STILL trying to find her place in the world... unfortunately, i dont think she'll play much part in warsong, just due to the end of endsong, although i think she should

i love the cuckoos, i think they need more fleshing out though, they're very hollow characters at the moment, and even during morrisons run, when they were a larger part of the story, they still seemed to be lacking something. i think this might bring it in... i hope anyway :P

[Mariah]

forgive me if i act like a noob, but i'm fairly new to x-men comics. saying that. endsong was the first comic i read... confused me no end, but i enjoyed it.

i personally dont think jean should be ressurected. she's been brought back SO many times, it's very redundant, and just feels... well... there's no feeling in it anymore. its just a "oo lets bring her back!" move and it means nothing.

i think rachel needs to move on from her "Teen girl trying to find herself" thing, its getting tired, i read it in an interview about uncanny (at the mo), every uncanny book i've read with rachel in it, she's just so hollow... she first appeared in 1981... thats more than 20 years ago, and she's STILL trying to find her place in the world... unfortunately, i dont think she'll play much part in warsong, just due to the end of endsong, although i think she should

i love the cuckoos, i think they need more fleshing out though, they're very hollow characters at the moment, and even during morrisons run, when they were a larger part of the story, they still seemed to be lacking something. i think this might bring it in... i hope anyway :P
Technically, she's only been brought back twice. Which is a lot less redundant than most other lesser characters.

Also, her name is PHOENIX. You know, the bird from myth that dies in flames only to be reborn again? So, remaining dead kinda makes her a liar doesnt' it?

[fishtaco]

You don't want to know what happens to the Phoenix? Seems slightly contradictory to that petition in your signature.On the contrary, the statement I just made fits perfectly with my signature. Also, her name is PHOENIX. You know, the bird from myth that dies in flames only to be reborn again? So, remaining dead kinda makes her a liar doesnt' it?An interesting point, but the twist on this in order to spare Phoenix's return from becoming predictable is to have Phoenix return, but not Jean. "A Phoenix dies, only to rise anew." That's different from "A Jean dies, only to rise anew". Phoenix should return, absolutely, but to make it unpredictable, someone else should be Phoenix, someone new. That's part of the point. It is because of Jean's return in 1986 (among several other instances) that death has become little more than a joke in super-hero comics, especially if it involves multiple writers. Technically, she's only been brought back twice.More than that, but the number isn't worth debating about. The problem a lot of fans had with Jean returning in 1986 wasn't necessarily her coming back, but the explanation for her return, which made the ending of the Dark Phoenix Saga seem silly, and furtherly complicate the Rachel storyline that Claremont was running in Uncanny X-Men and then Excalibur ar this time. The times after that have made little to no sense at all, especially in Phoenix Endsong, where Mr. Pak apparently took a bit of a literal interpretation of some aspects of the Phoenix, ignoring others, and making up some of his own without any basis. Wrong Phoenix. He wants the Rachel Phoenix, but i don't want Rachel to be Phoenix, I like her the way she is now, a teen girl trying to find herself, instead of dont' worry, I got this, I'm the Phoenix after all.In 1980, Claremont and Byrne created a character who was initially built around a "teen girl trying to find herself". Her name is Kitty Pryde. Since then, she has moved on from that. But Rachel is not Kitty, and I feel that when Claremont lost Kitty to Whedon in 2004, he kind of used Rachel as a subsitute, because Claremont continued this aspect of Kitty in XXT, although in a much more up-to-date and advanced environment (ie college, life outside the X-Men). Rachel has been on so much higher ground than this, and it's lame for her to be what Kitty was (but more poorly written) since her earliest appearances in 1980. Rachel has been written like a weak, annoying, and whiny character ever since her return in 2004. Phoenix Warsong seems to be going in a random, and quite stupid direction.

[Mariah]

Since it's been established that Jean is Phoenix, and Phoenix is Jean, how many times has she really returned? As far as I know, it was when she transformed into Phoenix, and when she returned in the Avengers/Fantastic Four crossover. I'm not counting the time in Uncanny 283 or 284 when she transferred her consciousness into the white queen's body. Other than that, how many?

Also, I'm tired of Rachel having to be Phoenix. Let her find something else to do, she doesn't have to always tied to the bird(same argument people are using about not having Jean return) let her find something else. Let her character expand, let her become her own person. Not Phoenix lite.

[fishtaco]

Since it's been established that Jean is Phoenix, and Phoenix is Jean, how many times has she really returned? As far as I know, it was when she transformed into Phoenix, and when she returned in the Avengers/Fantastic Four crossover. I'm not counting the time in Uncanny 283 or 284 when she transferred her consciousness into the white queen's body. Other than that, how many?Jean was Phoenix, and Phoenix was Jean. But Jean/Phoenix died on the moon. If Jean can just continue to come back whenever a writer or editor feels like it because she is the Phoenix, then how does one explain Rachel becoming Phoenix, or the clone the Force created it replace Jean while she healed at the bottom of the Jamaica Bay? This is the inconsistency that has plagued the Phoenix concept ever since 1986. It no longer makes sense. It's the largest contradiction in the history of super-hero comics. The more I think about it, the more I realize just how dumb the whole thing is. The only way to make sense out of this problem is to (in a biased fashion) choose to accept one explanation and ignore another one, or several others.

[Absolut_Fresh]

forgive me if i act like a noob, but i'm fairly new to x-men comics. saying that. endsong was the first comic i read... confused me no end, but i enjoyed it.

i personally dont think jean should be ressurected. she's been brought back SO many times, it's very redundant, and just feels... well... there's no feeling in it anymore. its just a "oo lets bring her back!" move and it means nothing.

i think rachel needs to move on from her "Teen girl trying to find herself" thing, its getting tired, i read it in an interview about uncanny (at the mo), every uncanny book i've read with rachel in it, she's just so hollow... she first appeared in 1981... thats more than 20 years ago, and she's STILL trying to find her place in the world... unfortunately, i dont think she'll play much part in warsong, just due to the end of endsong, although i think she should

i love the cuckoos, i think they need more fleshing out though, they're very hollow characters at the moment, and even during morrisons run, when they were a larger part of the story, they still seemed to be lacking something. i think this might bring it in... i hope anyway :P

i am SO over this being the non Jean supporters banner for not bringing her back..."its been done SO many times....blah blah blah" when i an all actuality she hasnt been killed off anymore than half the rest of the characters in the Marvel Universe have! you cant throw a rock these days without hitting some character thats been dead, resurrected, cloned, faked death, brainwashed, or something. this platform for her not to be resurrected just doesnt hold water in the MU any longer. so find a new reason, other than you dont like her, b/c there are plenty of fans that do. i might not like your favorite character but i would never wish death to them or be so vocal about them not returning b/c each character means something to someone.

[kate-pryde]

Wrong Phoenix. He wants the Rachel Phoenix, but i don't want Rachel to be Phoenix, I like her the way she is now, a teen girl trying to find herself, instead of dont' worry, I got this, I'm the Phoenix after all.

Unless Ray has been magically "de-aged", she isn't a teenager. She's at least several years older than Kitty. And she pretty much had found herself in Excalibur, even with the Phoenix.

If the Stepfords have the ability to bind with the Phoenix force, then why didn't the Shi'Ar try to kill them?

What bothers me with Endsong, Warsong and what Morrison did with Phoenix is that it contradicts everything that's been written before. Anything dealing with Rachel has been utterly tossed out the window. Why didn't the Phoenix force seek out Rachel since Jean was dead?

The Phoenix is Rachel's birthright. Writers can't ignore past continuity if they want to deal with the Phoenix force.

[Leaper Queen]

I really liked the End Song a lot too. I also like the fact this book will dig deeper in the lives of the Cuckoos, it was about time they got some more development.

It was also annouched beginning of this year a few characters would go through some important changes this year, the Cuckoos were among them so some major things will change for them. I wanna be a witness to whatever they will be going through!

About the cover: They look sexy, so what? Can't a girl look sexy if she chooses too? I like the cover a lot, better than the first/original cover.

Also all characters with a great fanbase come back every now and then (Magneto, Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse), The Phoenix-force is one of those and so far I liked all the Phoenix-based stories. I do not see Jean as being the one being who has the right to have the Phoenixforce in her. Rachel did a great job as being Phoenix II too.

I'll just buy and read it before judging it.

[steve2275]

the socks should b black tho

[Leaper Queen]

An short interview with Greg Pak on http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/says some stuff:

Comixfan: Are there any plots from Phoenix Endsong that will be followed up on in Warsong specifically dealing with a certain Cuckoo related cliffhanger?

Greg Pak: Absolutely. The Cuckoos will play a huge role in Warsong. I can’t say too much for fear of spoilers, but we’re delving into some of the dark corners of the Grant Morrison stories while building on the Phoenix mythos established by folks like Chris Claremont and Morrison. It’s going to be a trip — a mindbending story that takes the Cuckoos and the X-Men to some shocking and unexpected places while clarifying some key elements of the Phoenix mythos.

Comixfan: Which X-Men can we expect to see pop up in Phoenix Warsong?

Greg Pak: The Astonishing team plus the Cuckoos plus a surprise or two.
Speculation: Could this be a hint to the two other Cuckoos?

Comixfan: What kind of role will Jean Grey play or not play in the series?

Greg Pak: I’m going to go out on a limb here and just say it -- it’s too early for the X-Men and for the Marvel Universe as a whole for Jean Grey to return. But Warsong is an essential Phoenix story, which means that it’s also an essential Jean Grey story. We’re going to be delving into some key ideas for the Phoenix which will respect and help explain the past while laying the groundwork for the future — fans of Jean Grey should not miss this series.

[Bobster777]

Well, I'm glad that Jean isn't coming back in this particular story. Sounds like it will be interesting, but I hope this will be the last Pheonix story for a while.

[Tilt]

Jean was Phoenix, and Phoenix was Jean. But Jean/Phoenix died on the moon. If Jean can just continue to come back whenever a writer or editor feels like it because she is the Phoenix, then how does one explain Rachel becoming Phoenix, or the clone the Force created it replace Jean while she healed at the bottom of the Jamaica Bay? This is the inconsistency that has plagued the Phoenix concept ever since 1986. It no longer makes sense. It's the largest contradiction in the history of super-hero comics. The more I think about it, the more I realize just how dumb the whole thing is. The only way to make sense out of this problem is to (in a biased fashion) choose to accept one explanation and ignore another one, or several others.


Rachel became Phoenix because at the time Jean rejected the power/herself in horror over what she'd done, and didn't fully accept it again until after Rachel gave it up to stop Nero.

Jean is behind all of it, Feron, the force, Maddy...everything. Even Rachel's very presence here, since the Phoenix is what brought Rachel to 616 in the first place at Kate's request. It was all Jeans doing even if we haven't been given the fully story. I think it all ties into Jean's mind, she couldn't accept what she did and tried to convince herself it was really her and subconcious working with her power did the rest. Why wouldn't she have let her body heal in the bay and just create another to use? Or send part of herself into the past to interact with the primal forces that she came from and communicate with the first Feron? It's all within her powers...so I think as long as she wants to return, she will. Probably till the end of the universe itself. :)

[Callisto]

If I remember, Jean wasn't going to be in at all, or not a lot at least.

I just want to know how Emma is related to the Cuckoo's. They're Weapon X projects,.

for all we know they suddenly became weapon-x projects later on in the future. perhaps to ensure there life span.

[Titan76]

Greg Pak: Absolutely. The Cuckoos will play a huge role in Warsong.
What the hell for? The Phoenix and the Cuckoos having nothing to do with each other I don't see why the need to start now.

while building on the Phoenix mythos established by folks like Chris Claremont and Morrison.
In other words they are going to make up more unnecessary shit as they go along like they did in Endsong.
It’s going to be a trip — a mindbending story that takes the Cuckoos and the X-Men to some shocking and unexpected places while clarifying some key elements of the Phoenix mythos.[/COLOR]
I wonder if they are going to the White Hot Room. Though I really don't they will be clarifying much in this.

Greg Pak: The Astonishing team plus the Cuckoos plus a surprise or two.
It would be nice if that surprise or two would be Rachel and Nathan, but I doubt it.

Speculation: Could this be a hint to the two other Cuckoos?
I hope not, since this is suppose to be about Phoenix and not the Cuckoos.

Greg Pak: I’m going to go out on a limb here and just say it -- it’s too early for the X-Men and for the Marvel Universe as a whole for Jean Grey to return.
But it wasn't too early to bring back Hawkeye, Vision, Doom, and give Magneto back his powers right?:rolleyes:

But Warsong is an essential Phoenix story, which means that it’s also an essential Jean Grey story.
Not if she isn't in it.

We’re going to be delving into some key ideas for the Phoenix which will respect and help explain the past while laying the groundwork for the future
By having the Cuckoos in it and not Jean is laying groundwork for the future huh?

fans of Jean Grey should not miss this series.
We will be the judge of that.

[Callisto]

Of course you will. We all will end up buying it.

its so sad, yet so true:( .

[Titan76]

its so sad, yet so true:( .
Not for me. I will just scan though it in my CBS.

[jeangreydp]

I am always so impressed with the Jean Grey support on this board :)

*wipes happy tear*

Anyway, I am very doubtful of this miniseries being good for Jean. And I liked Endsong, aside from a few total BS moments, it was a fun read and had beautiful art.

What I think is, if its too soon to bring Jean back, then leave her alone. I want her back in the MU or not at all. All these minis are doing is putting off her return. Because now they can say "Oh, she's been dead for awhile, but... she just had that mini so its still too soon"

I'm not satisfied with this carrot dangling in our faces! Marvel is such a Jean tease!

Also I completely agree with Titan76 and all the others who are wondering why everyone is being passed the Phoenix except RACHEL AND NATHAN!?!? Her own flipping children that are born and bred to host the Phoenix! Ugh- its ridiculous. I can't figure out what in the world the Phoenix has to do/ would want to do with someone like Emma or the Cuckoos! They aren't even telekenetic!

[Titan76]

Also I completely agree with Titan76 and all the others who are wondering why everyone is being passed the Phoenix except RACHEL AND NATHAN!?!? Her own flipping children that are born and bred to host the Phoenix! Ugh- its ridiculous. I can't figure out what in the world the Phoenix has to do/ would want to do with someone like Emma or the Cuckoos! They aren't even telekenetic!
Because Emma and the Cuckoos are something that Marvel doesn't have to go into much detail about when it comes to their history with the Phoenix because only Emma has one with it which was a long time ago and many new readers don't know much about.

When it comes to Rachel and Nathan Marvel would have to go back and reasearch these three characters, explain to new readers what their history and connection to each other is, and figure out a new way that isn't confusing that would connect all of them together without making up even more bullshit like they have through the years that confusing fans(like when Jean came back to life but Rachel was the Phoenix). But each time a Marvel writer does come up with a new idea for Phoenix like the ones Davis or Morrsion had it doens't solve much and only makes fans madder because there are always more questions that are ask afterwards.

Which is why until Marvel gets a writer who can sit down and tell the Phoenix's history and put things in their that throws out the stuff that no longer makes sense/doesn't work and put stuff in there that does make sense and can connect the dots between Jean, Rachel, and Nathan they will always aviod putting these three characters together in one book that has the Phoenix in it.

[Brian M.]

I don't see how it would be hard to pass it to Rachel. You don't even have to go into much explanation. Use Warsong to do it.

Rachel starts having dreams about her mother. The dreams start out like tests than it's a deep conversation w/ her mother then BAM one morning she's Pheonix again. The dreams and conversations were tests to see if Rachel was ready to recieve the Force again. Her first act as Phoenix is to bring Jean back. Jean tutors Rachel on the use of her powers. Even though Rachel had the Force for a while there is probably still some stuff she doesn't know and Jean does. That way we get Jean back - the Force and you give the Force a reasonable and very logical host in her daughter.

[Titan76]

I don't see how it would be hard to pass it to Rachel. You don't even have to go into much explanation.
Conisdering its been over 10 years and they havn't explain it yet, I guess it is hard for them.

Use Warsong to do it.
That's for Emma and her mini me's remember.

Rachel starts having dreams about her mother. The dreams start out like tests than it's a deep conversation w/ her mother then BAM one morning she's Pheonix again. The dreams and conversations were tests to see if Rachel was ready to recieve the Force again.
But why isn't Nathan capable of using the force? And then you might have to explain how Rachel got it and lost it the first time for readers who don't know much about her.
Her first act as Phoenix is to bring Jean back.
But Jean has already been shown before on coming back on her own. Why all of a sudden does she need Rachel?
That way we get Jean back - the Force and you give the Force a reasonable and very logical host in her daughter.
So does that mean then when Jean comes back that Rachel and her have the Phoenix powers or just Rachel?

[Brian M.]

Conisdering its been over 10 years and they havn't explain it yet, I guess it is hard for them.

See I think you could kinda skim it, her name is Rachel Grey...it could be implied.


That's for Emma and her mini me's remember.

I'm dreaming, don't ruin it :)

But why isn't Nathan capable of using the force? And then you might have to explain how Rachel got it and lost it the first time for readers who don't know much about her.

You say that the Force prefer's female hosts since they carry more passion and more emotion for it to experience. It's had a male host before but the passion is stronger in a woman.

But Jean has already been shown before on coming back on her own. Why all of a sudden does she need Rachel?

She could get the nudge from Rachel...I don't know.

So does that mean then when Jean comes back that Rachel and her have the Phoenix powers or just Rachel?

You could switch. Jean will have the type of powers Rachel has been displaying in Uncanny and Rachel could be full blown Phoenix. You could cap Rachel's power due to inexperience maybe.

It's not perfect I know but I think it'd work.

[Daithi]

Conisdering its been over 10 years and they havn't explain it yet, I guess it is hard for them.


Rachel is Jean's daughter. Rachel was Phoenix. That's all the explanation they need. She has a Phoenix eye symbol around her eye. Her family was murderered because they could be Phoenix hosts. Rachel hasn't being pushed as Phoenix but there have been constant mentions to her link to the Force.


But why isn't Nathan capable of using the force? And then you might have to explain how Rachel got it and lost it the first time for readers who don't know much about her.


Hold on. We have to explain how a genetic relation to Jean got the Phoenix but we don't have too for Emma and her Cuckoos who have no relation to Jean?


But Jean has already been shown before on coming back on her own. Why all of a sudden does she need Rachel?


She doesn't. However she doesn't need Emma or the Cuckoos either so why have them in a Phoenix story.

Although you could probably do something with Jean bringing Rachel along to find her missing shards because Rachel is a better tracker and a more experienced time traveller. Then you have Jean claiming shard after shard until she realises that the final shard is attached to Rachel. Rather than claim the shard and become "whole", Jean allows the shard to remain with Rachel. However (and here comes the teary bit) Jean figures out that Rachel as the Baby Phoenix makes Jean whole after all.

[Titan76]

See I think you could kinda skim it, her name is Rachel Grey...it could be implied.
What happen to Rachel Summers then?;)


I'm dreaming, don't ruin it :)
Wake up, Wake up, its Emma's month, yeh..yeh.:p :D


You say that the Force prefer's female hosts since they carry more passion and more emotion for it to experience. It's had a male host before but the passion is stronger in a woman.
What happen with the male host though and what's his connection.


She could get the nudge from Rachel...I don't know.
Maybe you can say that Rachel instead gives Jean a good reason into wanting to come back right now. How's that work?


You could switch. Jean will have the type of powers Rachel has been displaying in Uncanny and Rachel could be full blown Phoenix. You could cap Rachel's power due to inexperience maybe.
Well, I don't think Marvel will just strip Jean of the Phoenix after all that time they went through giving her back the Phoenix. Plus you also have to remember about the X-men movie and cartoon and that people who don't read comics much only know Jean being Phoenix.

It's not perfect I know but I think it'd work.
True and your idea would be a good start. But it seems for some reason Marvel can't come up with stuff like this. And when they do they go way overboard, like cosmic stuff overboard and it doesn't go that well.

[Titan76]

Rachel is Jean's daughter. Rachel was Phoenix. That's all the explanation they need. She has a Phoenix eye symbol around her eye. Her family was murderered because they could be Phoenix hosts. Rachel hasn't being pushed as Phoenix but there have been constant mentions to her link to the Force.
If Rachel is Jean's daughter then when did Jean give birth to her? This is where the history part comes into play because not to many fans know Rachel's entire history.

Hold on. We have to explain how a genetic relation to Jean got the Phoenix but we don't have too for Emma and her Cuckoos who have no relation to Jean?
That's pretty much want Marvel is saying.


She doesn't. However she doesn't need Emma or the Cuckoos either so why have them in a Phoenix story.
A good question and one that Marvel needs to answer. I don't see why Emma and the Cuckoos need to be in this at all.

Just to clear things up, I am only asking these questions because I am acting like a new reader. New readers are always going to ask these types of questions when they read about the Phoenix because its very confusing to non-long term X-fans and it needs to be answer in order for Marvel to bring in more people.

[MrSuslov]

I have to confess: All this mention of "the Force" has become amusing, since I keep thinking of the Force that George Lucas came up with. Not that I would mind seeing Jean Grey toting a lightsaber and/or being a Dark Jedi. That could be really interesting. In that vein, the words of Yoda offered solely to dismiss Rachel as the new host for the Phoenix Force: "Too old, too old to begin the training." :D

My hope is that this new series does more than Endsong, which I read and kind of shrugged at. Yes, various pieces of art in it were absolutely beautiful, but I was left with a 'meh' feeling at the end. The DPS, on the other hand, left me with a 'whoah' feeling, for comparison, even with comparatively primitive artwork.

Although I've got some reservations, I've already started trying to get an elbow in for the variant cover(s) at my store, since this story could very well entangle my two favorite X-men (i.e. Jean Grey and Emma Frost, in that order) in a constructive manner. The addition of the Stepford Cuckoos can't be all bad, either. (Here's hoping they learn to speak in unison...) Who knows? Perhaps Warsong'll generate interest for me in Rachel.

[Vaal]

You guys are missing the clear chance at an awesome turn of events.

Namely: Scott Summers, Pheonix III

If there's one person in the world dull enough to not be in danger of going Dark Pheonix, its our boy.

[Brian M.]

You know at some point you have to let the reader do some work, 22pages for a rehash isn't that fun. Look at Uncanny #477.

[Daithi]

If Rachel is Jean's daughter then when did Jean give birth to her? This is where the history part comes into play because not to many fans know Rachel's entire history.

So? Do they know the entire history of the Phoenix either? Or Emma? Or the Cuckoos? Or even Jean? Marvel shouldn't assume that the fans do or do not know something.

[kate-pryde]

I won't be buying it. I'll read it in TPB at a bookstore some day, like Endsong.

I don't agree that Rachel is too confusing for new readers. I'd assume calling her Grey over Summers makes her less confusing.

At the same time Warsong is coming out, Uncanny is going to be about the Shi'Ar trying to kill Rachel again because she can become the Phoenix (and probably Shi'Ar calling Ray "Young Phoenix" and her saying back "Phoenix was my mother" over and over again until it's hammered into new readers' heads)

If I was a reader who had never picked up an issue of Excalibur Vol 1 (like the majority of the X-book writers and clearly the entire editorial staff), and had no clue about Ray's backstory with the Phoenix force, I would be majorly confused. Either the Shi'Ar are going after the wrong person and should be going after the Stepfords and Emma, or the Uncanny and Warsong exist in two different 'verses.

Having a book explaining the Stepfords' backstory is fine. I couldn't care less, but I'm sure their fans do. But making it a Phoenix book is just marketing crap. They're trying to milk the Phoenix name for all it's worth and putting out pointless stories under the Phoenix banner because something called Phoenix is going to sell better than just calling it a Stepford mini-series.

What bothers me the most about this is that the the X-books writers/editors know that Rachel represents a continuity problem/conflict. Ed Brubaker has promised a big story with lots of tragedy and he loves killing off characters. Killing off Rachel solves all of their problems. I'd say the odds of Ray never returning from Shi'Ar space is at least 75%.

[Bart Simpson]

If this miniseries is not going to feature Jean, than why the hell would Jean fans want to buy it. Sounds like another ploy to sell Jean/Phoenix while pushing the Cuckoos and Emma.:mad: I'll read this for free first, and if Jean is involved and appears I'll buy it.

[fishtaco]

I won't be buying it. I'll read it in TPB at a bookstore some day, like Endsong.

I don't agree that Rachel is too confusing for new readers. I'd assume calling her Grey over Summers makes her less confusing.

At the same time Warsong is coming out, Uncanny is going to be about the Shi'Ar trying to kill Rachel again because she can become the Phoenix (and probably Shi'Ar calling Ray "Young Phoenix" and her saying back "Phoenix was my mother" over and over again until it's hammered into new readers' heads)

If I was a reader who had never picked up an issue of Excalibur Vol 1 (like the majority of the X-book writers and clearly the entire editorial staff), and had no clue about Ray's backstory with the Phoenix force, I would be majorly confused. Either the Shi'Ar are going after the wrong person and should be going after the Stepfords and Emma, or the Uncanny and Warsong exist in two different 'verses.

Having a book explaining the Stepfords' backstory is fine. I couldn't care less, but I'm sure their fans do. But making it a Phoenix book is just marketing crap. They're trying to milk the Phoenix name for all it's worth and putting out pointless stories under the Phoenix banner because something called Phoenix is going to sell better than just calling it a Stepford mini-series.

What bothers me the most about this is that the the X-books writers/editors know that Rachel represents a continuity problem/conflict. Ed Brubaker has promised a big story with lots of tragedy and he loves killing off characters. Killing off Rachel solves all of their problems. I'd say the odds of Ray never returning from Shi'Ar space is at least 75%.I don't think that Brubaker is going to kill Rachel, but otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you said. Marts said that he will kill off another key character in his first arc, though. I wonder who Marvel is going to pair the Phoenix with next? Wolverine? Val Cooper? Bucky? It makes no sense.

[kate-pryde]

Well, Bru may not kill Rachel, but I have a hunch she'll be eliminated in some fashion as to not interfer with Warsong and whatever the 3rd Phoenix -song book is (Lovesong?). Some marketing type at Marvel is probably drooling over making Emma the new Phoenix or something stupid like that and Ray will need to dispensed with for that to happen.

In one interview, Brubaker said about Rachel by the end of the Shi' Ar arc she'll be "be in a different place than we've ever seen her" Source (http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/interviews.html?showinterview=IN07250647610)

Well, dead certainly is different. Although, Mother Askani did die in AoC&P. Or it could just be some other time/place where she can't interfer with Warsong and whatever stupidity Marvel has planned for continuing to milk the Phoenix name.

Unless Brubaker can undo the damage of whiny, pathetic Rachel Grey and Ray can come out of the Shi'Ar arc a character that can out-sell Emma and reclaim the Phoenix name.

[Daithi]

Well, Bru may not kill Rachel, but I have a hunch she'll be eliminated in some fashion as to not interfer with Warsong and whatever the 3rd Phoenix -song book is (Lovesong?). Some marketing type at Marvel is probably drooling over making Emma the new Phoenix or something stupid like that and Ray will need to dispensed with for that to happen.

Well Ray being around doesn't matter. Hell in Endsong, despite the presence of her best friend and two team mates, nobody sought to get Rachel's opinion on this.

[AnthonyJ]

Well, Bru may not kill Rachel, but I have a hunch she'll be eliminated in some fashion as to not interfer with Warsong and whatever the 3rd Phoenix -song book is (Lovesong?).
She won't interfere with Warsong anyway, being at the other end of the universe. I'm guessing that the change will be something to detach her further from the Phoenix, which isn't really a bad thing for the character.