Is Batman a better forensic scientist than Barry Allen?

[Buried Alien]

As the "World's Greatest Detective," Batman needed to master forensic science among many other skills for his war on crime. One of his Justice League colleagues, Barry Allen (the Flash), was once the best forensic scientist in the Central City Police Department. Which of the two was the better forensic scientist?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ripper]

Id say Bruce Would beat Barry. As the worlds greatest detective hed be up there with the best forensic scientists. Barry may be the best in central city but I dont think hed be at that level.

[Joe Rice]

I see Barry as having been a pretty good cop. A good scientist for his little midwestern town. Bruce, on the other hand, is a world-class mind and detective with access to loads better equipment. Don't think there's much of a contest here.

[literally exaggerated]

to be fair, Barry Allen was pretty renowned, at least in some circles, for being a top notch forensic scientist.

But c'mon, this is Batman, and we're talking about a subject related to detectivery. No way I'm betting against him.

[The Shadow]

I see Barry as having been a pretty good cop. A good scientist for his little midwestern town. Bruce, on the other hand, is a world-class mind and detective with access to loads better equipment. Don't think there's much of a contest here.
What he said.

[jackups]

Me to agree Batman kicks butt as a forensic detective!:)

[David Atkins]

Well, I'm going to have to go against the flow here; I think Barry Allen was probably the better forensic scientist. While it is pretty obvious that Batman DOES know his business when it comes to forensics, being an uber-detective does not go hand-in-hand with being an uber-scientist.

Also, it should be noted that Barry Allen was, specifically, a forensic scientist. I should think it would be next to impossible to outclass a speedster in a field he's chosen to specialize in.

[Buried Alien]

Well, I'm going to have to go against the flow here; I think Barry Allen was probably the better forensic scientist. While it is pretty obvious that Batman DOES know his business when it comes to forensics, being an uber-detective does not go hand-in-hand with being an uber-scientist.

Also, it should be noted that Barry Allen was, specifically, a forensic scientist. I should think it would be next to impossible to outclass a speedster in a field he's chosen to specialize in.

No matter how fast Flash/Barry was, however, he still had to wait for lab results sometimes. His superspeed would have expedited the setup process quite a bit, however.

Overall, however, good point: to become the World's Greatest Detective, Batman had to master *many* skills, of which forensic science was but one (albeit a very important one). Forensic science, however, was Barry Allen's career. Barry likely dedicated much more time to its study and practice than Bruce did.

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[David Atkins]

The set-up process is partially what I meant, but wouldn't Barry simply have more relative time to devote to the study and mastery of his craft? Or would his powers not work like that? Forgive me if I'm not up to date on my Flash Facts, but I've never followed the series with any regularity until the OYL relaunch. :)

[Buried Alien]

The set-up process is partially what I meant, but wouldn't Barry simply have more relative time to devote to the study and mastery of his craft?

Oh, certainly. How else would a government-employed forensic scientist design and build a cosmic treadmill that could travel across the time-space continuum? :)


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[David Atkins]

*LOL* Right on, that's what I thought. I just wasn't sure because I remember how big a deal they made of it when Impulse all of this sudden was able to retain so much information when reading at super-speed in the Teen Titans book.

Thanks.

[Buried Alien]

One thing DC never did much during the Silver/Bronze Age was write stories about Batman and the Flash working together to solve a case through their knowledge of forensic science. There were plenty of Batman/Flash teamups in the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA (old Silver/Bronze Age version) and elsewhere, but those emphasized the action: Batman's detective (but not necessarily scientific), strategic, and fighting skills and Flash's superspeed.

One thing I hope DC does someday is tell a story of Batman and the Barry Allen Flash pooling their forensic science knowledge to solve a case. Of Batman's JLA teammates, I imagine that other than Superman, Barry would have been the one whom Batman respected most both due to Barry's forensic science knowledge and the fact that Barry was a cop (Batman always held good cops in high esteem).

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[Sizzle]

*LOL* Right on, that's what I thought. I just wasn't sure because I remember how big a deal they made of it when Impulse all of this sudden was able to retain so much information when reading at super-speed in the Teen Titans book.

Thanks.

Depends on ones skill at retention and memory though.

[Apathy Boy]

Well, I'm going to have to go against the flow here; I think Barry Allen was probably the better forensic scientist. While it is pretty obvious that Batman DOES know his business when it comes to forensics, being an uber-detective does not go hand-in-hand with being an uber-scientist.

Also, it should be noted that Barry Allen was, specifically, a forensic scientist. I should think it would be next to impossible to outclass a speedster in a field he's chosen to specialize in.Agreed, and for both reasons that you state.

While Batman has mastered every discipline, he's not THE master in every discipline. I'm willing to bet that his (still very advanced) knowledge of forensic science falls short of someone who does that work everyday.

And don't discount the superspeed advantage. There's a scene in JLA: YEAR ONE where Barry's partner fires a gun so he can test whether it matches the forensics on a bullet they have in evidence. Since the bullet's moving in slow motion to Barry, he just glances over and notes, "Yeah, perfect match."

[Lorendiac]

As the "World's Greatest Detective," Batman needed to master forensic science among many other skills for his war on crime. One of his Justice League colleagues, Barry Allen (the Flash), was once the best forensic scientist in the Central City Police Department. Which of the two was the better forensic scientist?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I looked at the thread title before I clicked on it, and said to myself, "Ah ha! Trick question, right?"

Then I came in and actually read the thread. Am I the only shameless nitpicker who noticed that the question in the thread title and the question in the first post at the start of the thread are not the exact same question?

To take the question "Which of the two was the better forensic scientist?" first, I have to say: Barry Allen was, back in the day, for reasons others have already stated. 1) He did it for a living, on a full-time schedule, and thus got a lot more practice in that specific field of endeavor than Batman did. 2) His super-speed made it possible for him to do a lot of the routine steps of a testing process more quickly than Batman possibly could.

But on the question as it is stated in the thread title, "Is Batman a better forensic scientist than Barry Allen?" I have to point out that this question is phrased in the present tense, meaning Batman as he is right now and Barry as he is right now.

The answer to that question is: Yes, Batman is much better than Barry is today, because Batman is still alive to do lab work if necessary, and Barry Allen is still dead and gone. (When was the last time you saw a dead man do a really first-class job of running a bunch of lab tests, all by himself?)

This nitpick has been provided to you as a public service! (Now excuse me while I duck out of sight before people start throwing tomatoes at me!)

[Kara Zor El]

There is probably a level you can reach in forensics when given all the best available eqiupment and learning that you can't go above. So both Barry and bruce have reached this level. they can't get any better. They are both in other words as good as it gets.

[Lorendiac]

There is probably a level you can reach in forensics when given all the best available eqiupment and learning that you can't go above. So both Barry and bruce have reached this level. they can't get any better. They are both in other words as good as it gets.

Even assuming that you're correct about their skill levels being on the same high level, it seems to me that Barry was (when alive) still better than Bruce because he could work so much faster in some ways. I mean, let's put it this way: Suppose I gave Batman ten pieces of evidence that needed forensic tests done, and I gave Barry an identical ten pieces, and then I started my stop watch. If Barry had all 10 of his tests done when Batman was only in the middle of #2, wouldn't that prove that Barry was a "better" forensic scientist even if Batman's results (when he finally got done) matched Barry's results perfectly on all ten items? ;)

(After all, if my neighbor and I each hired different guys to paint our houses, and my guy got done hours ahead of the other guy, but with equally satisfactory results, then wouldn't I be justified in saying that my painter was better at his job than my neighbor's painter?)

[Kara Zor El]

Even assuming that you're correct about their skill levels being on the same high level, it seems to me that Barry was (when alive) still better than Bruce because he could work so much faster in some ways. I mean, let's put it this way: Suppose I gave Batman ten pieces of evidence that needed forensic tests done, and I gave Barry an identical ten pieces, and then I started my stop watch. If Barry had all 10 of his tests done when Batman was only in the middle of #2, wouldn't that prove that Barry was a "better" forensic scientist even if Batman's results (when he finally got done) matched Barry's results perfectly on all ten items? ;)

(After all, if my neighbor and I each hired different guys to paint our houses, and my guy got done hours ahead of the other guy, but with equally satisfactory results, then wouldn't I be justified in saying that my painter was better at his job than my neighbor's painter?)
I'm going to say - Yeah.

[Francis]

Depends what you mean by "Better".

If you want evidence that will stand up in court, and to follow police procedures, I'd say that Barry takes it because that is his job. For getting the correct answer, I'd say that Batman takes it - his equipment is far better than Barry's, and he is a better criminal psychologist and has a better idea of what is both probable and possible.

In short, Barry is constrained by being a forensic scientist and having to work to beyond reasonable doubt. Batman needs to only work to balance of probabilities and can then interrogate the rest of the way to a confession with multiple possible suspects. They aren't in direct competition.

[phantom1592]

Batman has a better computer to run his findings through. He could find a match to a fingerprint 100 times faster than the Central City Police computer can.

Of course Barry can flip through the hard files 100 times faster then the batcomputer.

Its really a toss up. If you're talking about something that will require procedure, and general knowledge of the field. I'll give it to Barry. He would be about Equally skilled as Batman, but able to do the job much faster.

If it boils down to using that evidence to research something, Batman has better resources. He'll have a result for a poison match while Barry is still staring at a "loading" page.

[Toreador]

I'd say Batman is the better forensic scientist. I don't remember much of the Flash comics but I don't recall Barry ever going to a crime scene much to gather evidence. He mainly stayed in the lab conducting tests on whatever materials was brought to him. Batman can do on-the-spot tests probably solving the crime faster than Barry back in the lab. Batman has also been shown to examine a piece of soil at a crime scene and now exactly where in the city it came from (although only in Gotham City, I doubt he knows the soil content of every city in the world). Barry might be able to tell what kind of soil it was but he would have to consult possible a computer or a geologist to find out where it came from (Barry's never been shown to have a photographic memory as Batman does).

His also done the same with poisons; by the look, odor, effects Batman has determined what the poison was and where it possible originated. Barry might be able to do the same thing (although I've never read that he's done it) but being a police scientist he would have to conduct tests that the results would hold up in court.

While Barry can obviously conduct tests faster than Bruce chemical reactions in the tests would still require the same amount of time no matter who conducted the tests.

I'm not knocking Barry in any way but the Barry Allen-Flash comics were written before the CSI or Bones shows came about and I doubt that the writers actually knew what a forensic scientist does while some of the Batman writers probably read a Sherlock Holmes book or Doc Savage book and assumed that's what a super-detective should be able to accomplish to solve a crime.

[phantom1592]

I'm not knocking Barry in any way but the Barry Allen-Flash comics were written before the CSI or Bones shows came about and I doubt that the writers actually knew what a forensic scientist does


I've heard Forensics people say the same thing about the CSI writers :D

[Damo]

Batman. Sorry, but while Barry got respect of his peers, he wasn't ever portrayed as being the worl'd best forensic scientist in his own book, nevermind other books. Batman is the world's greatest detective. While I don't think he should be the master at everything, it makes sense for him to be the best forensic scientist (unlike him being the best martial artist or race car driver, or other things that don't fall under the subheading of detective).